Datone Jones, Best Rookie Pass Rusher?

[pbmax]

Chuck Smith, who runs a camp to prepare players for the NFL thinks Jones' pass rushing skills have been shortchanged. He thinks he has a natural feel for it.

NFP says that conventional scout (PackerRats) wisdom is that Jones will replace Wilson and is viewed by NFL team scouts as a run stopper at DE. Smith thinks that is selling him short.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-9247.html

[Pugger]

I sure hope he's right. If we can have him and Perry along with Clay getting after the QB this season is gonna be fun.

[denverYooper]

I sure hope he's right. If we can have him and Perry along with Clay getting after the QB this season is gonna be fun.

Don't forget fake tough guy.

If all 4 can be healthy(ish) this year, pass rush could look much better.

[packer4life]

Always pictured Daniels and Raji rushing inside in nickel/dime on 3rd and long. Wonder if Datone can take some of Daniels' snaps away. Raji and Datone inside to penetrate could be fun to watch. Even Neal sliding inside (I assume he may play a bit of OLB on rushing downs) on 3rd down could be fruitful. Definitely reason to think we may improve as a pass-rush unit this year.

Wist agrees, Dom's scheme is top notch and we are gonna lead the league in sacks and run defense...right Wist? :bump:

[woodbuck27]

I believe that sometime this season and the later the better; we'll see a dramatic improvement in our pass rush and run 'D'.

I also believe 'that' added to a more versatile attack on 'O' will go to where we need to see it and jumping ahead of the likes of San Fran and Seattle and Denver to capture the Super Bowl.

PACKERS !

[digitaldean]

I could go for them laying out Kaeppernick in the season opener. He had a monster performance against the Packers. Now it's time to see if this defense and this team learned anything from it.

[wist43]

Always pictured Daniels and Raji rushing inside in nickel/dime on 3rd and long. Wonder if Datone can take some of Daniels' snaps away. Raji and Datone inside to penetrate could be fun to watch. Even Neal sliding inside (I assume he may play a bit of OLB on rushing downs) on 3rd down could be fruitful. Definitely reason to think we may improve as a pass-rush unit this year.

Wist agrees, Dom's scheme is top notch and we are gonna lead the league in sacks and run defense...right Wist? :bump:

lol...

Well, don't think I could ever get stoned enough to mistake Dom Capers for Vince Lombardi, but as I've said all along, I like a lot of the players, so if he would simply get his spraypainted head out of his ass, maybe we could have something.

I didn't like the Jones pick, but that was b/c of Capers, even though I'm okay with Jones as a player; and the year before, everyone was a miscast pick as well; he's misused Raji every year since he's been here - he's just a complete dunderhead, and I want him gone. We've discussed his MO - he gets fired everywhere he goes for a reason.

That said, if Perry comes back healthy and motivated, and Capers can get out of his own way, maybe we can make a run... but that would be dependent on some of the bullies coming back to us. At full strength?? We just don't match up with SF, SEA, or NYG... maybe not even Washington. We're about even with NO, Minn can beat us on any given Sunday - and we have a very tough schedule.

It'll be an interesting season, that's for sure.

[Patler]

Wist agrees, Dom's scheme is top notch and we are gonna lead the league in sacks and run defense...right Wist? :bump:


lol...

Well, don't think I could ever get stoned enough to mistake Dom Capers for Vince Lombardi, but as I've said all along, I like a lot of the players, so if he would simply get his spraypainted head out of his ass, maybe we could have something.

I suspect Capers has a better defensive mind than Lombardi did. Lombardi pretty much turned over the defense to Phil Bengtson.

[Fritz]

I suspect Capers has a better defensive mind than Lombardi did. Lombardi pretty much turned over the defense to Phil Bengtson.



So Lombardi was really an offensive-minded guy? I did not know that. I knew he was a Giants' assistant, and I think I read he wanted to bring a fellow assistant with him to GB - some guy named Landry - but I'd assumed for some reason that Lombardi was a defensive coordinator.

Oops.

So I wonder why Bengston flopped so badly as a head coach. Just a better assistant? Lack of talent? That was, after all, an aging team that Lombardi had not done a good job of replenishing.

[pbmax]

Landry was the Giants D coordinator while Lombardi coached offense. Landry's Flex Defense was designed in part to stop Lombardi's sweeps.

[KYPack]

So Lombardi was really an offensive-minded guy? I did not know that. I knew he was a Giants' assistant, and I think I read he wanted to bring a fellow assistant with him to GB - some guy named Landry - but I'd assumed for some reason that Lombardi was a defensive coordinator.

Oops.

So I wonder why Bengston flopped so badly as a head coach. Just a better assistant? Lack of talent? That was, after all, an aging team that Lombardi had not done a good job of replenishing.

Phil had the problems Fritz ID's plus he was simply too easy going to be an NFL HC. Landry didn't want to go to GB and be an assistant. He was going to be a HC somewhere or go back to Texas and get into business.

Phil was the DC for the 49ers. In the NFL "underground", Bengston was widely regarded as one of the top DC's in the league. Lombardi went after him as soon as he got the big job in GB.

Fritz also discusses the "dirty little secret" of the Lombardi regime. VTL didn't have top notch college scouting men in his staff and VTL wasn't that good at it either.

All the GBP scouting and player personnel moves were made by a guy named Jack Vainisi (his brother Jerry would become the head man for the Bears). Jack died early in the '60 season and he was essentially never replaced.

[Patler]

When Lombardi retired, there was a general feeling that things would be OK, because Lombardi would still run the operation, Bengtson was groomed by Lombardi as his replacement, Bengtson had been with Lombardi from the start and Bengtson had directed some great defenses.

All that KYP said was revealed to be true in the following years.

Years later, several players admitted that the team took advantage of Bengtson's easy-going manner. Not that they ran rampant, but after the iron fisted intensity of Lombardi, they relaxed under Bengtson and maybe didn't play as well as they could have.

[cheesner]

So Lombardi was really an offensive-minded guy? I did not know that. I knew he was a Giants' assistant, and I think I read he wanted to bring a fellow assistant with him to GB - some guy named Landry - but I'd assumed for some reason that Lombardi was a defensive coordinator.
John Madden tells a story of when he first started coaching and he thought he knew it all. He went to a seminar and one of the speakers was Lombardi. Vince talked for 8 hrs on the power sweep. Madden left thinking he didn't know very much about football. How you fill 8 hrs on one play, I can't imagine.


As far as Datone goes - I haven't been this excited about a rookie since Raji. I never thought Jones would be available to us at our pick, I am surprised he made it past the Steelers. Love to hear stories like this - can't wait to see how the young man fits in.

[packer4life]

John Madden tells a story of when he first started coaching and he thought he knew it all. He went to a seminar and one of the speakers was Lombardi. Vince talked for 8 hrs on the power sweep. Madden left thinking he didn't know very much about football. How you fill 8 hrs on one play, I can't imagine.


As far as Datone goes - I haven't been this excited about a rookie since Raji. I never thought Jones would be available to us at our pick, I am surprised he made it past the Steelers. Love to hear stories like this - can't wait to see how the young man fits in.

I'd love to hear 8 hours on the Capers' 3-man-rush hail mary prevent defense. I hear it is quite effective...

[denverYooper]

To answer the thread Q: yes.

[wist43]

I'd love to hear 8 hours on the Capers' 3-man-rush hail mary prevent defense. I hear it is quite effective...

Or better yet, end of the half, 3rd and 8ish, deep in their own territory, rookie QB, run heavy team... what does Mr. Spraypainted Hair do?? He puts 1 DL on the field. Run to the right, gain of 11, 1st down, run the half out... doh :doh:

[Upnorth]

If he is the best rookie pass rusher, and if Perry and Neal stay healthy, I think wist will have less ability to complain because no matter the scheme talent will preform. Saftey and ILB will be our only concerns, Jones is better than Walden, so all in all i would 'buy' the packers d this year.

[Freak Out]

So Lombardi was really an offensive-minded guy? I did not know that. I knew he was a Giants' assistant, and I think I read he wanted to bring a fellow assistant with him to GB - some guy named Landry - but I'd assumed for some reason that Lombardi was a defensive coordinator.

Oops.

So I wonder why Bengston flopped so badly as a head coach. Just a better assistant? Lack of talent? That was, after all, an aging team that Lombardi had not done a good job of replenishing.

Ever hear of the Lombardi sweep?

[Bretsky]

For the record Bretsky loved the Datone Jones Pick (since Eric Reed was snatched by San Fran)

Odds are that might not be a great thing; the last first round pick I really loved was AJ Hawk

[pittstang5]

I liked the Datone Jones pick. He was, in my opinion, the best player available for a postion that we really needed to improve on.

But....He's a rookie and he plays a position that is notorious for players to take a year or two to settle into. I'm not expecting much.

[bobblehead]

Chuck Smith, who runs a camp to prepare players for the NFL thinks Jones' pass rushing skills have been shortchanged. He thinks he has a natural feel for it.

NFP says that conventional scout (PackerRats) wisdom is that Jones will replace Wilson and is viewed by NFL team scouts as a run stopper at DE. Smith thinks that is selling him short.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-9247.html

Funny because I always viewed Datone as a pass rush/all around player. He is very sudden. Granted, my opinions are based only on video highlights since the draft, but if we drafted him to replace wilson, that was dumb. Wilson is excellent vs. the rush.

[Fritz]

Ever hear of the Lombardi sweep?

Someone should name a vacuum cleaner that.

Of course I have. But I thought he developed that after he got to G B, and focused mostly on defense. Obviously I was wrong.

[Freak Out]

Someone should name a vacuum cleaner that.

Of course I have. But I thought he developed that after he got to G B, and focused mostly on defense. Obviously I was wrong.

I can't believe that was never marketed.....at least in Wisconsin!

I couldn't miss an opportunity to bust your balls Fritz.....I remember reading about Vince's passion for the offense many many years ago when I first started buying books as a kid. Those days are just a bit foggy now and I can honestly say I never paid much attention as to whether he was more offense minded or defensive minded.

[Fritz]

I can't believe that was never marketed.....at least in Wisconsin!

I couldn't miss an opportunity to bust your balls Fritz.....I remember reading about Vince's passion for the offense many many years ago when I first started buying books as a kid. Those days are just a bit foggy now and I can honestly say I never paid much attention as to whether he was more offense minded or defensive minded.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3I9IvHq2ILJhzqNwHH3Ich_vubOjCJ ngF7_e9qQxWWmMiSzHh1J3A-QC6

Consider them busted!

[swede]

Ow!

I always thought Vince was an offensive genius and a GM with a great eye for defensive talent. On the sideline he yelled stuff like, "Somebody get that guy!" so it would not surprise me that he might have needed a little help on the defensive side of the ball.

Ow!

[Fritz]

Ow!

I always thought Vince was an offensive genius and a GM with a great eye for defensive talent. On the sideline he yelled stuff like, "Somebody get that guy!" so it would not surprise me that he might have needed a little help on the defensive side of the ball.

Ow!

Not to tarnish St. Vince - much - but has anyone ever really tracked his drafting success/lack of after Vanisi croaked and Lombardi had full control?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Regardless of how he put it on the sideline, Lombardi wouldn't tolerate poor tackling. Consider this quote from Dave Robinson:


"Today, so many guys try to hit you with a forearm and knock you down," Robinson said. "When they try to do that at the 20-yard line, sometimes the guy stays on his feet and goes 20 yards for a touchdown. When I played, when you made contact with a guy on the 20-yard line, if he got to the 18, you'd be sitting on the bench right next to Vince Lombardi."

From: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/robinson-wraps-up-thoughts-on-poor-tackling-b9948606z1-215007681.html

Arguably, Robinson was the MVP of the Packer defense in the Glory Years. Because of his range, tackling ability and ability to defend the pass, guys like Herb Adderley to play with reckless abandon and enter the Hall of Fame prior to him.

I agree 100% with Robinson's assessment. The Packers should hire him as a defensive coach specializing in tackling technique.

[Fritz]

I don't know if it's technique or the culture of the NFL.

[pbmax]

I don't know if it's technique or the culture of the NFL.

Its television highlights, NFL Films and Chuck Cecil.

[Maxie the Taxi]

You're right, pb. But I think it all began with Fred "The Hammer" Williamson. He was a less than average player who made a name for himself and a movie career out of boasting how he'd lay "The Hammer" on Green Bay's receivers in the Super Bowl. Needless to say, Green Bay's receivers smoked him. His boasts were all self-generated hype ala "The Boz."

[pbmax]

You're right, pb. But I think it all began with Fred "The Hammer" Williamson. He was a less than average player who made a name for himself and a movie career out of boasting how he'd lay "The Hammer" on Green Bay's receivers in the Super Bowl. Needless to say, Green Bay's receivers smoked him. His boasts were all self-generated hype ala "The Boz."

Its a fair point about Williamson. His celebrity outside football might outstrip his contributions on the field as well. However, he might simply be one of the new wave of self-promoters that appeared in that era.

Does anyone remember him outside of the Super Bowl game? Could he back up that talk and play (and tackle) well?

[KYPack]

Its a fair point about Williamson. His celebrity outside football might outstrip his contributions on the field as well. However, he might simply be one of the new wave of self-promoters that appeared in that era.

Does anyone remember him outside of the Super Bowl game? Could he back up that talk and play (and tackle) well?

Freddie was an excellent corner. Huge guy who could really run. He was 6'3" and 220. Good cover guy and a real ball hawk. One of the better force men in his time. Packer fans all think he sucked bc of SBI, where he shot his mouth off and Donny nailed him with the knee. Freddie now claims he wasn't knocked out, he was just showboating for the last bit of TV time. I dunno about that shit, Fred.

Freddie was 3 times AFL All Star, twice All-Pro. He was the first Big time Raider to be traded for a KC Chief star. The Raiders traded Williamson to the Chiefs for fellow All Star CB Dave Grayson.

Fred only played one more season with the Chiefs. His replacement was Emmitt Thomas, a HOF CB.

3 times an All Star, traded for an All Star, and replaced by a HOFer?

Freddie was a very solid player with a historical image problem.

[Fritz]

Freddie was an excellent corner. Huge guy who could really run. He was 6'3" and 220. Good cover guy and a real ball hawk. One of the better force men in his time. Packer fans all think he sucked bc of SBI, where he shot his mouth off and Donny nailed him with the knee. Freddie now claims he wasn't knocked out, he was just showboating for the last bit of TV time. I dunno about that shit, Fred.

Freddie was 3 times AFL All Star, twice All-Pro. He was the first Big time Raider to be traded for a KC Chief star. The Raiders traded Williamson to the Chiefs for fellow All Star CB Dave Grayson.

Fred only played one more season with the Chiefs. His replacement was Emmitt Thomas, a HOF CB.

3 times an All Star, traded for an All Star, and replaced by a HOFer?

Freddie was a very solid player with a historical image problem.

One of the things that lifted the NFL back then was the rivalry between certain clubs. I have good memories, as a kid, of watching KC and Oakland go at it. Daryl Lamonica vs. Kenny Stabler. Guys like Jan Stenerud, Fred Bilitnekoff, Ray Guy.

Ray Guy. Still maybe the greatest punter ever, and for sure the first truly great, great punter. Though I think KC had a guy names Jerrel Wilson who was quite good. I think that was his name.

A great rivalry, back in the early to mid- 70's.

[Patler]

Though I think KC had a guy names Jerrel Wilson who was quite good. I think that was his name.


Yup. "Thunderfoot".

[Fritz]

It was Len Dawson who was the Chiefs' QB. Oops.

Lamonica was a Raider - I think he came just before "The Snake."

But those teams matched up at every position, it seemed. Some great names. Banaszak. Otis Taylor. Jim Otto, I think.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Packers actually drafted Lamonica.