TIME TO CHANGE KICKERS ??? JS article

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/time-for-packers-to-change-kickers-b9967045z1-218603701.html

[Bretsky]

Just give a simple

YES
NO

NOT SURE YET to Mason Crosby



Here are some random thoughts; I see why MM and TT continue to be in love with Crosby.
I was at the game the other night. For those of us who witnessed the kickoff first hand we saw the following

PLAYER ONE.............The hot blonde who disappoints


PLAYER TWO............The average chick who lives up to the billing


Seriously, the ball was just flying off of Player One's . Nearly all of those kicks are good....if aimed correctly.....from 60-65 yards. But then he misfired on 5 of 8. Do you stay with the sexy knowing the upside is there................or go to

Player Two.....who seemed to have a nice aim.....but the distance is undboutedly limited. His kickoffs were not that good...........and he struggled mightily to kick it 50
But his aim was there............and he did not disappoint.


WHERE IS YOUR BIAS RATS ??

[pbmax]

If there was a veteran kicker, even limited in range, on the roster, I would be for throwing Crosby off the ship.

This originally started with a problem at mid-range on the right hash. The normal draw a right footed kicker would get was no longer happening for him. So he would target the rightmost upright and expect a slight draw to move the ball to the middle. He somehow had developed a slice that pushed the ball to the left (in some cases simply bringing it back to dead on straight).

It took forever to correct (more than 1 year, maybe 2). By the time it disappeared, he had begun to lose his touch from 50+. What had been a good leg at long FGs disappeared. McCarthy never backed off his love of long FGs and often seemed to trim back his offenses sails just to ensure he got an attempt at it.

He finally laid off long ones at times last year and Crosby had a better second half. But that stupid slice returned last year as well as in the scrimmage.

What is clear is that neither Crosby nor his coach seem to be able to correct it without introducing other problems.

And this doesn't even touch the mystery short range misfires.

Something is woefully wrong or unpredictable and needs to be removed.

But I am not sure a new kicker is the answer. Not every waiver pickup is Longwell. Bias is to stay with the hot blonde until I have to pick at final roster cutdown. By then, hopefully new average brunette will have proved herself.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If I'm the coach, I cut Crosby and go with Tav or another kicker. Field position is everything and a long field goal that's missed can change momentum in a heartbeat. Crosby has become a head case.

[Joemailman]

I've had it with the hot blonde and I'm about ready to dump her. I'm just afraid I'll wake up one morning and realize the "average chick" is actually ugly as hell.

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/time-for-packers-to-change-kickers-b9967045z1-218603701.html

P.S. Start a poll next time. :lol:

[Bretsky]

P.S. Start a poll next time. :lol:


Bretsky would always go for the well endowed hot blonde; if the first doesn't work Bretsky would look for another hot blonde. The kicker we brought in would not be under consideration if Bretsky was the GM.

Seriously, TT brought in this kicker because he thought she was an ugly chick and was fully confident the hot blonde would easily win this battle. The competetition is nothing short of a facade as there are much better babes to bring in to compete with our blonde that the weak legged Italian


BTW......the other think I learned on Saturday....is our punter....he has an incredibly strong kicking leg.

If we had a weak legged but reliable kicker handling field goals Mashay could excel at kickoffs


JAN STENURUD................anybody.................. ??

[Patler]

The hot blonde excels at other aspects of kicking, like kickoffs, kickoff coverage (he does know how to tackle) and is one of the best I have seen at onside kicks. The hot blonde needs to go to one of the kicking specialist that the Packers have designated off limits, to figure out what the FG issue is.

He has shown in the past that he can be very successful over a prolonged period. Remember, it was in 2011 that he broke the Packer record for consecutive successful FG attempts (21, I think). From when the streak started in the 6th game of 2010 through to when his troubles really started in the 5th game of 2012, he was a combined 44 of 51 over a 31 game period. He does attempt a higher percentage of 40+ yard kicks than most kickers, because Rodgers has been so good at getting TDs when the Packers reach the red zone, so the 44/51 was a strong performance.

It all went to heck for him in 2012, and it seems to be getting progressively worse. He needs to consult a true expert in kicking. I have been a staunch supporter of Crosby, especially due to the way he has been used by MM. But, I'm afraid he can be fixed only by moving on. I think he has passed the point of no return in GB.

[Zool]

I have a feeling PB is right. Neither the blonde nor the casual fuck buddy you don't tell your friends about will be on the roster week 1. If Crosby doesn't turn this around in a hurry, he'll be in someone else's camp next year.

[RashanGary]

It's been hard to watch, for sure. We're probably gonna have to move on.

[pbmax]

The hot blonde needs to go to one of the kicking specialist that the Packers have designated off limits, to figure out what the FG issue is.

I consider this one of McCarthy's few true failings. Its clear they don't have the answer on staff to fix him. Now, if they dumped him like a UDFA OLB at the end of camp, I could understand not wanting to commit resources to such a short term, limited return project.

But they clearly value what he brings to the team and McCarthy has failed to get him the necessary assistance. I think the return of that slice is damning because they made an adjustment, it affected other things and now its back. Underlying problem is not solved.

[Patler]

Just for a point of reference:

In his 5th year, Ryan Longwell was awful. 20/31 for 64.5%. At the various distances, he was
20-29ards - 3/4
30-39 yards - 9/10
40-49 yards - 7/14
50+ yards - 1/3

Last year, Crosby was 21/33 for 63.6%. His performance by distance:
20-29ards - 5/5
30-39 yards - 5/7
40-49 yards - 9/12
50+ yards - 2/9

[Patler]

I consider this one of McCarthy's few true failings. Its clear they don't have the answer on staff to fix him. Now, if they dumped him like a UDFA OLB at the end of camp, I could understand not wanting to commit resources to such a short term, limited return project.

But they clearly value what he brings to the team and McCarthy has failed to get him the necessary assistance. I think the return of that slice is damning because they made an adjustment, it affected other things and now its back. Underlying problem is not solved.

Ya, after last season, what was there to lose? I would have let him go to anyone that might help.

[King Friday]

It is hard to give up on Crosby, because his leg strength is a positive on kickoffs and like others have mentioned he is an exceptional onside kick artist. He only missed 5 FGs inside of 50 yards last year. Like Patler points out, all kickers go through slumps.

The Italian has ZERO pressure on him right now. He's playing with house money. He is completely unproven in a true pressure situation. He may look great all camp, get the job, then fall flat on his face. The good thing for us is that I think he's proven at least a capable option, so it gives you a chance to let Crosby either kick his way on or off the team in preseason. His performance the other night was damaging, but I don't think you cut bait just yet. If he proves adequate when the lights come on in preseason, he'll keep his job.

[Carolina_Packer]

I have a feeling PB is right. Neither the blonde nor the casual fuck buddy you don't tell your friends about will be on the roster week 1. If Crosby doesn't turn this around in a hurry, he'll be in someone else's camp next year.

What will Crosby do if the Packers let him go? The Vikings already have Walsh.

[George Cumby]

IME: the Hot Blonde was a total soul-destroying nutcase. Over time the "average chick" gave a lot better return.

But analogies become absurd when taken to their logical conclusion. So it's down to competition, if Crosby doesn't unfuck his head, we go with the Guinea.

[Fritz]

IME: the Hot Blonde was a total soul-destroying nutcase. Over time the "average chick" gave a lot better return.

But analogies become absurd when taken to their logical conclusion. So it's down to competition, if Crosby doesn't unfuck his head, we go with the Guinea.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3r9AXpSs2s0aKIxGwLO7djk6WXRVbg Pl4XTWxnRwk1QC64XqDAw


You know who you want.

[pbmax]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3r9AXpSs2s0aKIxGwLO7djk6WXRVbg Pl4XTWxnRwk1QC64XqDAw


You know who you want.

Nice pads.

[Pugger]

But is Tavecchio the answer tho?

[denverYooper]

Nice pads.

M3 would like that. She's got good pad level.

[Brandon494]

YES!!!! I've been saying for years how overrated Crosby is. Who cares if he has a leg, I want a kicker who can put points on the board.

[Fritz]

YES!!!! I've been saying for years how overrated Crosby is. Who cares if he has a leg, I want a kicker who can put points on the board.

My patience with Crosby is (finally) running out. I've been a supporter of his, but I am starting to think he's not going to get this "mechanical" stuff figured out. Which is to say, his head is a mess. He just hasn't produced, and while I hope he turns it around in the next three preseason games, if he doesn't, well, I'm ready to kick him off the team. If I don't bounce him off the right goal post.

[mraynrand]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3r9AXpSs2s0aKIxGwLO7djk6WXRVbg Pl4XTWxnRwk1QC64XqDAw.

I see the problem. You can't kick a football in heels like those.

[Fritz]

True, true. Those heels are meant to be sole-side up.

[Patler]

YES!!!! I've been saying for years how overrated Crosby is. Who cares if he has a leg, I want a kicker who can put points on the board.

The unfortunate thing is that he had become that. From the start of 2010 until things started to go bad in 2012, over a span of 41 games (including playoffs) he was 56/67 for 84% even while being asked to kick more than his fair share from 40+ yards (42% of his kicks during that time were from 40 yards or more; 13% were from 50 yards or more).

I'm not advocating keeping him, he needs to earn than. But, to argue that he never has been good enough, I think, is wrong.

[King Friday]

Who cares if he has a leg, I want a kicker who can put points on the board.

Crosby led the league in scoring in 2007, and he put up 140 points in 2011...so he clearly HAS the capacity to put points on the board, even recently when you suggest you were screaming from the mountain top to get rid of him. His success was above 75% every season until last year...where almost 1/3 of his attempts were 50+. I place some blame on McCarthy here...he preferred too often to throw 30 yard bombs on third and short rather than pick up critical yards to move the chains or at least improve field position for a FG attempt. Our offense also was very successful in the red zone last year, and it took away a number of chip shots that would've helped Crosby's stats.

You don't get rid of a guy with a leg like Crosby's until you are convinced he's lost it. I'm not convinced yet. He had one bad year, where only 12 of 33 kicks he attempted were under 40 yards. That is ABNORMAL, especially for a kicker on a team that plays in a cold weather city outdoors. I'm guessing you could count on one hand the number of kickers in Chicago, Green Bay, Buffalo, New England, New York that have attempted at least 30 FGs in a year and had 60% of them be over 40 yards. I'm also guessing all of them had pretty horrible years.

I think many of you were spoiled by Crosby's success 2011...where 20 of Crosby's 28 kicks were UNDER 40 yards. Historically, that is where ALL kickers gain on their accuracy stats. Few kickers have both the leg strength AND accuracy to be consistently great over 40 yards unless they play a lot of games in a dome. If we are going to expect our kicker to have 60% of their kicks be over 40 yards, then I don't care who we have as a kicker...their ability to "put points on the board" will be seriously compromised.

[digitaldean]

Really want to spice things up?? Bring in Dan Carpenter, formerly of the Dolphins. He just got cut today....

[pbmax]

Really want to spice things up?? Bring in Dan Carpenter, formerly of the Dolphins. He just got cut today....

Going to need to increase preseason scoring to get them tested. Right now they would only be trading off kickoffs :)

[Joemailman]

Crosby led the league in scoring in 2007, and he put up 140 points in 2011...so he clearly HAS the capacity to put points on the board, even recently when you suggest you were screaming from the mountain top to get rid of him. His success was above 75% every season until last year...where almost 1/3 of his attempts were 50+. I place some blame on McCarthy here...he preferred too often to throw 30 yard bombs on third and short rather than pick up critical yards to move the chains or at least improve field position for a FG attempt. Our offense also was very successful in the red zone last year, and it took away a number of chip shots that would've helped Crosby's stats.

You don't get rid of a guy with a leg like Crosby's until you are convinced he's lost it. I'm not convinced yet. He had one bad year, where only 12 of 33 kicks he attempted were under 40 yards. That is ABNORMAL, especially for a kicker on a team that plays in a cold weather city outdoors. I'm guessing you could count on one hand the number of kickers in Chicago, Green Bay, Buffalo, New England, New York that have attempted at least 30 FGs in a year and had 60% of them be over 40 yards. I'm also guessing all of them had pretty horrible years.

I think many of you were spoiled by Crosby's success 2011...where 20 of Crosby's 28 kicks were UNDER 40 yards. Historically, that is where ALL kickers gain on their accuracy stats. Few kickers have both the leg strength AND accuracy to be consistently great over 40 yards unless they play a lot of games in a dome. If we are going to expect our kicker to have 60% of their kicks be over 40 yards, then I don't care who we have as a kicker...their ability to "put points on the board" will be seriously compromised.

Crosby was only 5-7 from 30-39 last year. Only 1 kicker had a worse percentage. He needs to nail those. 17 of the top 25 kickers missed 0 or 1, and most had more attempts. He was 9-12 from 40-49. That looks to be about average for a good NFL kicker. His 2-9 from 50+ was in a class of its own. A few of those (I specifically remember Indy) wouldn't have been good from 40. We may be a bit spoiled, but he was a below average NFL kicker last year. He needs to turn it around.

[Brandon494]

Look at Dan Carpenter numbers then compare them to Crosby....and Carpenter is the kicker who got cut? :-| Crosby's longest kick is 58 yards while Carpenter's longest is 60 yards. Stop hyping up the guy's leg like hes Sebastian Janikowski, Crosby is just an average kicker playing on a team with a high powered offense.

[hoosier]

I have never seen Dan Carpenter's leg but I do know that, unless you are in the middle of a monsoon, kicking in Miami is a lot easier than kicking in Green Bay.

[Brandon494]

I have never seen Dan Carpenter's leg but I do know that, unless you are in the middle of a monsoon, kicking in Miami is a lot easier than kicking in Green Bay.

I agree but he did kick a 53 yarder at Green Bay in 2010 when they beat us in OT 23-20.

[Patler]

Look at Dan Carpenter numbers then compare them to Crosby....and Carpenter is the kicker who got cut? :-| Crosby's longest kick is 58 yards while Carpenter's longest is 60 yards. Stop hyping up the guy's leg like hes Sebastian Janikowski, Crosby is just an average kicker playing on a team with a high powered offense.

Yes and no. Crosby has a stronger leg than most. Remember that he was barely short on a 69 yard attempt at Lambeau field in December a few years ago. He has the kind of leg strength you would like to have in GB, but right now he seems to be hopelessly erratic.. It started with kicks of 50 yards and more. It has spread to kicks of 40 or more. He's had a year to fix it, and hasn't. Strong leg or not, time to move on.

[Fritz]

Sign "Kickalicious!"

[bobblehead]

The unfortunate thing is that he had become that. From the start of 2010 until things started to go bad in 2012, over a span of 41 games (including playoffs) he was 56/67 for 84% even while being asked to kick more than his fair share from 40+ yards (42% of his kicks during that time were from 40 yards or more; 13% were from 50 yards or more).

I'm not advocating keeping him, he needs to earn than. But, to argue that he never has been good enough, I think, is wrong.

NO you don't. You fooled me once with stats (and I should know better). Crosby's problem is breathing....as in its hard to breath while choking. Was in college. Was at the combines. Is in Green Bay. A kicker gets paid to kick game winners....I can hit a 35 yarder with no pressure.

[King Friday]

But who do you move on to at this point? Neil Rackers? Olindo Mare?

You don't cut Crosby to keep the Italian. That would be moronic. Unless someone else who you know you can count on becomes available, Thompson has no choice but to hope Crosby makes them when the games count.

[Patler]

NO you don't. You fooled me once with stats (and I should know better). Crosby's problem is breathing....as in its hard to breath while choking. Was in college. Was at the combines. Is in Green Bay. A kicker gets paid to kick game winners....I can hit a 35 yarder with no pressure.

First, I think it is time to move on from Crosby. But, an interesting tidbit from his college day:


He developed a reputation for kicking in the clutch, making 12 of 13 field goals in the fourth quarter, and a perfect 10/10 in the final 8½ minutes of games. This bent was most evident when Crosby played rival Colorado State University, against which Crosby made kicks of 55 (2004), 48, and 47 yards (2005) in consecutive years to win the Rocky Mountain Showdown.

Appears he was clutch in college.

[Patler]

You don't cut Crosby to keep the Italian. That would be moronic.

At this point, "the Italian" would be an upgrade.

[George Cumby]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3r9AXpSs2s0aKIxGwLO7djk6WXRVbg Pl4XTWxnRwk1QC64XqDAw


You know who you want.

I am confused.

Did Crosby get implants or is that the Italian?

[Pugger]

Both Lindell and Carpenter are now employed so we are stuck with Crosby or the Italian until another kicker is released by another team. :|

[Fritz]

Does Tavecchio have the ability to develop into a good NFL kicker? That's the million dollar question.

[Smidgeon]

Does Tavecchio have the ability to develop into a good NFL kicker? That's the million dollar question.

Can he kick onside kicks expertly?

[Patler]

Both Lindell and Carpenter are now employed so we are stuck with Crosby or the Italian until another kicker is released by another team. :|

Carpenter might be available again in two weeks. If not him, then Jay Feeley will be. I can't believe Arizona will keep both of them.

[Bretsky]

Carpenter might be available again in two weeks. If not him, then Jay Feeley will be. I can't believe Arizona will keep both of them.

Have to call a Spade a Spade

IMO we're not interested in replacing Mason Crosby. This is not an open competition to find the best out there. If thats what we wanted we would not have the JAG who is masquerading as Crosby's competitor in camp.

Carpenter is a really reliable and good kicker; it's telling that we didn't bit as that opportunity IMO

[Patler]

Have to call a Spade a Spade

IMO we're not interested in replacing Mason Crosby. This is not an open competition to find the best out there. If thats what we wanted we would not have the JAG who is masquerading as Crosby's competitor in camp.

Carpenter is a really reliable and good kicker; it's telling that we didn't bit as that opportunity IMO

They did go after Carpenter. He chose Arizona.

[pbmax]

Carpenter is a really reliable and good kicker; it's telling that we didn't bit as that opportunity IMO

I must ask because I don't know. If he is what you say he is, why did he get cut from his team?

[Bretsky]

I must ask because I don't know. If he is what you say he is, why did he get cut from his team?

They loved the rookie they drafted and brough it...here is a bit more info

It looks like fifth-round pick Caleb Sturgis will be the Dolphins kicker this season.

The Dolphins announced Wednesday afternoon that they have released veteran kicker Dan Carpenter, who was competing with Sturgis for the job in Miami this season. It’s not a huge surprise since teams don’t tend to draft kickers without plans to give them the job once the regular season rolls around.

Carpenter spent the last five years with the Dolphins, connecting on 81.9 percent of his field goal tries over that time and going to the Pro Bowl after the 2009 season. He made both field goals he tried in the Hall of Fame Game, but didn’t try any kicks during the Dolphins’ second preseason game against the Jaguars. The Dolphins will save $2.675 million by cutting Carpenter.

[Bretsky]

I think there is a mentality in the NFL these days that there is no need to pay kickers good money anymore because you can always get adequate talent there for a good deal.

The NFL Network.........who has a SERIOUS crush in Ted Thompson.....like they have for Hoody Genius...........

Laid down some criticism on TT last week noting the contract he signed Crosby for has turned out to be ridiculous in looking at all of the kickers around the league and what they made. They noted to give any kicker that kind of money..........he has to pretty much be a star at his postion because you can always find guys that are very good and now the Packers have a pretty good chunk of change on the line for a guy who's turned out to be very sub par for his professsion.

Again, the Packers.....and me as well....have had some man love because his leg is one of the best in the NFL......it appears we were both wrong.

[Pugger]

His leg is fine. The problem with Mason is between the ears. :-?

[denverYooper]

I think there is a mentality in the NFL these days that there is no need to pay kickers good money anymore because you can always get adequate talent there for a good deal.

The NFL Network.........who has a SERIOUS crush in Ted Thompson.....like they have for Hoody Genius...........

Laid down some criticism on TT last week noting the contract he signed Crosby for has turned out to be ridiculous in looking at all of the kickers around the league and what they made. They noted to give any kicker that kind of money..........he has to pretty much be a star at his postion because you can always find guys that are very good and now the Packers have a pretty good chunk of change on the line for a guy who's turned out to be very sub par for his professsion.

Again, the Packers.....and me as well....have had some man love because his leg is one of the best in the NFL......it appears we were both wrong.

Bill Barnwell wrote this article a year and a half ago about why teams shouldn't pay kickers or RBs a lot of money because they're basically fungible in the NFL:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/19276/why-are-nfl-teams-afraid-of-the-dark

[Maxie the Taxi]

Just a question: If Crosby's leg is so strong, why don't his kickoffs sail over the end zone every time? Moreover, there were games when Crosby would try kicking off very high with a lot of hang time or angled toward the sideline, supposedly to allow good coverage. Why would he do this if the guy could kick it over the end zone every time?

Comment: Watching other teams kickoff around the league, my opinion is that Crosby's leg is average or a bit above. Take last night's game in Baltimore, for example. Virtually every kickoff was to the back of the end zone or over it.

[pbmax]

They loved the rookie they drafted and brough it...here is a bit more info

It looks like fifth-round pick Caleb Sturgis will be the Dolphins kicker this season.

The Dolphins announced Wednesday afternoon that they have released veteran kicker Dan Carpenter, who was competing with Sturgis for the job in Miami this season. It’s not a huge surprise since teams don’t tend to draft kickers without plans to give them the job once the regular season rolls around.

Carpenter spent the last five years with the Dolphins, connecting on 81.9 percent of his field goal tries over that time and going to the Pro Bowl after the 2009 season. He made both field goals he tried in the Hall of Fame Game, but didn’t try any kicks during the Dolphins’ second preseason game against the Jaguars. The Dolphins will save $2.675 million by cutting Carpenter.

OK, but why draft a kicker if you have a 81% FG kicker? What was the shortcoming? There has to be one.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Laid down some criticism on TT last week noting the contract he signed Crosby for has turned out to be ridiculous in looking at all of the kickers around the league and what they made. .... Again, the Packers.....and me as well....have had some man love because his leg is one of the best in the NFL

It wasn't a bad decision by TT, in fact it was a smart one that just turned out wrong. Crosby had demonstrated both leg strength and accuracy. There is risk in even the most carefully calculated personnel decision, and TT's calculations were reasonable. Now I hope he calculates that Crosby is dead weight.

[Guiness]

Well, it seems like everyone's opinion is that Crosby is a dead man walking.

I hope the Pack doesn't have another Jon Ryan type debacle, where they ditched him at the end of TC and brought in a replacement to start the regular season (was it Frost?), only to have it not work out. If Crosby is not going to be the kicker, and the other guy in camp isn't the answer, get someone else NOW instead of waiting and hoping on someone else's castoff a kicker.

[Patler]

OK, but why draft a kicker if you have a 81% FG kicker? What was the shortcoming? There has to be one.

Does make you wonder, doesn't it? It doesn't seem to make sense to draft a kicker unless you are dissatisfied with your incumbent. It makes even less sense to release the incumbent after one preseason game unless there is something about him that you really dislike.

[denverYooper]

Does make you wonder, doesn't it? It doesn't seem to make sense to draft a kicker unless you are dissatisfied with your incumbent. It makes even less sense to release the incumbent after one preseason game unless there is something about him that you really dislike.

Contract? I thought he was making a lot for a K, as was Lindell.

Then again, Crosby's making more than he has earned right now.

[Patler]

Contract? I thought he was making a lot for a K, as was Lindell.

Then again, Crosby's making more than he has earned right now.

I suppose. He was scheduled to make $2.7 M. Sturgis will be $400K plus his signing bonus.