ROSTER ANALYSIS

[Bretsky]

Nice piece by McGinn

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-roster-analysis-strength-will-be-key-in-deciding-who-will-stay-and-who-will-go-b9974725z1-219517431.html

[Fritz]

Nice piece by Fritz

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTu2YkHvIqNwyJHTklBb2bZeZQHtIDYo mD7NlnlusixXEXsAYjl

[Joemailman]

QB (2) Rodgers, Young

RB (5) Franklin, Green, Harris, Lacy, Kuhn

OL (8) EDS, Lang, Sitton, Van Roten, Bakhtiari, Newhouse, Barclay, Sherrod

WR (6) Boykin, Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Walker, Ross

TE (4) Finley, Mulligan, Quarless, Williams

DL (7) Daniels, Jones, Neal, Wilson, Jolly, Pickett, Raji

LB (9) Lattimore, Hawk, Jones, Manning, Matthews, Moses, Mulumba, Perry, Barrington

CB (6) Bush, Hayward, House, Hyde, Shields, Williams

S (3) Burnett, Jennings, McMillian

Notes:

After final cuts, TT picks up a safety from somewhere
Green could be gone if his knee flares up again

ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode

[hoosier]

Something tells me Ross isn't going to make it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

QB (2) Rodgers, Young

RB (5) Lacy, Starks, Franklin, Harris, Kuhn

OL (8) Bakhtiari, Sitton, EDS, Lang, Barclay, Newhouse, Van Roten, Taylor or Sherrod (depending if Sherrod is off PUP)

WR (5) Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Boykin, Ross

TE (4) Finley, Mulligan, Quarless, Bostick

DL (7) Raji, Pickett, Jones, Wilson, Daniels, Jolly, Neal

LB (10) Matthews, Hawk, Jones, Perry, Francois, Lattimore, Manning, Moses, Mulumba, Barrington

CB (6) Shields, Williams, Hayward, House, Hyde, Bush

S (3) Burnett, Jennings, McMillian

ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode

PS candidates: Coleman, Pease, Johnson, Dorsey, Stoneburner, Walker, Boyd, Miller, Palmer, Nixon, Smith

[Joemailman]

Something tells me Ross isn't going to make it.

I wasn't going to include Ross until I realized there's only 3 safeties worth keeping. He's gone if they find a 4th, either on their own roster or elsewhere.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The TE group looks shaky. I agree with Harvey that DJ Williams might have been riding the potential train too long.

I wonder if Mulligan can fill Crabtree's shoes, Crabtree could catch and run, as we saw on that fake field goal, and was also a good blocker.

Quarless is the mystery man who could make the group respectable.

[pbmax]

Crabtree had a TD last weekend, I think it was a long one from the description I read.

[run pMc]

Good Lord, Fritz. Now I can't even think about rosters.

[Joemailman]

Good Lord, Fritz. Now I can't even think about rosters.

Focus on the Tight Ends.

[Harlan Huckleby]

RB Eddie Lacy, Johnathan Franklin, DuJuan Harris, James Starks

I'm going out on a limb and predicting the Packers will go with just 4. Pease is a viable backup option on the practice squad. Kuhn's blocking can be replaced by a TE, as McGinn mentioned.

This is one of those predictions that probably won't come true, but will certainly be forgotten. It can be bumped-back in the event that it happens.

[Tony Oday]

Nice piece by Fritz

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTu2YkHvIqNwyJHTklBb2bZeZQHtIDYo mD7NlnlusixXEXsAYjl

I reposted the sh*t out of that...

[mraynrand]

I wonder if Mulligan can fill Crabtree's shoes, Crabtree could catch and run, as we saw on that fake field goal, and was also a good blocker.

Quarless is the mystery man who could make the group respectable.

That's the point: Mulligan easily fills (and surpasses) Crabtree in blocking, and they expect Quarless to easily surpass Crabtree in pass receiving. Some of Crabtree's successes were from exploiting defensive schemes that reasonably underestimated Crabtree (e.g. the TD versus AZ). So the subterfuge will be missing, but the skill levels in blocking and pass receiving increased, hypothetically.

[pbmax]

Bob seems more down on Franklin and Taylor than daily reports suggest out of camp.

[mraynrand]

Scoops McGinn seems very down on Quarless being ready and very high on Bostick's receiving abilities. Maybe Q gets another year of IR.

[Pugger]

Focus on the Tight Ends.

:lol:

[hoosier]

JSO has Ross's needle pointing straight down and Ty Walker's rising like a helium bubble. Walker could be this year's Boykin.

[swede]

JSO has Ross's needle pointing straight down and Ty Walker's rising like a helium bubble. Walker could be this year's Boykin.

I don't think it is too out of the question to call him this year's Driver. He has been very successful and very productive at every level. His combine numbers look pedestrian, but he plays way faster than his numbers because he is quick and instinctive. Didn't he make the tackle on Peterson's pick?

Edit: I do see the UDFA difference, Hoozh.

[Fritz]

JSO has Ross's needle pointing straight down and Ty Walker's rising like a helium bubble. Walker could be this year's Boykin.

This means, obviously, that Walker has been looking at the nice piece I posted above, and Ross has not.

[Bossman641]

Ross has me concerned. It doesn't seem like he has the natural feel of a WR. I've read one too many stories on him slipping out of a cut or not working back towards the ball and it resulting in a INT/incomplete pass. My concern though is, if not him, who at returner? No chance do I want Cobb back there. We have enough trouble keeping players healthy as is without risking things further. Franklin doesn't appear to be a natural returner. Who's left after Cobb, Ross, Franklin?

[Smidgeon]

The part that didn't sink in until I read the article but with which I can't disagree is that MM and TT seem to have accepted that Coleman has too much development in front of him to challenge Harrel--Harrell--for the Q2 spot before the season starts.

I'm hoping this doesn't mean they're giving up on him. I liked the pick last year, and think he's got a chance. Hopefully he just needs another offseason.

[Patler]

Ross has me concerned. It doesn't seem like he has the natural feel of a WR. I've read one too many stories on him slipping out of a cut or not working back towards the ball and it resulting in a INT/incomplete pass. My concern though is, if not him, who at returner? No chance do I want Cobb back there. We have enough trouble keeping players healthy as is without risking things further. Franklin doesn't appear to be a natural returner. Who's left after Cobb, Ross, Franklin?

In 2012 the Packers kept Driver active for 13 games, yet he rarely saw the field on offense, and he didn't play STs until the last few games. Ross can be at least as useful on offense as Driver was last year, and much more valuable than Driver on STs.

[Patler]

The part that didn't sink in until I read the article but with which I can't disagree is that MM and TT seem to have accepted that Coleman has too much development in front of him to challenge Harrel--Harrell--for the Q2 spot before the season starts.

I'm hoping this doesn't mean they're giving up on him. I liked the pick last year, and think he's got a chance. Hopefully he just needs another offseason.

Probably depends on if he seems to be learning at all, or not. I suspect he may be destined for the practice squad again.

[hoosier]

Ross has me concerned. It doesn't seem like he has the natural feel of a WR. I've read one too many stories on him slipping out of a cut or not working back towards the ball and it resulting in a INT/incomplete pass. My concern though is, if not him, who at returner? No chance do I want Cobb back there. We have enough trouble keeping players healthy as is without risking things further. Franklin doesn't appear to be a natural returner. Who's left after Cobb, Ross, Franklin?

Easy: Johnny Jolly. We already know he can pluck the ball out of the air. Yes, he will have lots of short returns, but when the blocking works and he gathers a full head of steam, what gunner is going to want to have anything to do with tackling him?

[Bossman641]

In 2012 the Packers kept Driver active for 13 games, yet he rarely saw the field on offense, and he didn't play STs until the last few games. Ross can be at least as useful on offense as Driver was last year, and much more valuable than Driver on STs.

Didn't we go light on OL and LB last year though?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Easy: Johnny Jolly. We already know he can pluck the ball out of the air.

I think the new big guys that got drafted in 5th round, Miller & Boyd, looked pretty good. It's possible that Jolly could lose a roster spot to one of those guys. I think Jolly has shown enough to earn a roster spot on some NFL team.

[Joemailman]

Didn't we go light on OL and LB last year though?

Packers went with 7 on the OL last year. That's light. Probably were thinking they'd have Sherrod at some point. Went with 9 at LB.

[Joemailman]

I think the new big guys that got drafted in 5th round, Miller & Boyd, looked pretty good. It's possible that Jolly could lose a roster spot to one of those guys. I think Jolly has shown enough to earn a roster spot on some NFL team.

Miller is an UDFA who was on the Bears PS last year. Boyd was drafted this year. It's a tough call on Boyd. I think Jolly would help the team more this year, but Boyd might get picked up by someone if the Packers try to stash him on the PS. Very few of TT's draft picks from the first 5 rounds have not made the team that first year.

[Fritz]

I think, if Jolly continues to improve his conditioning, and his skills return, that he's a better player than Josh Boyd. I haven't read that Boyd has been impressive, at all. I wonder if he could be stashed on the PS. He seems to be not quite a nose tackle, not quite a -4 DE.

[pbmax]

Miller had a better game than Boyd. Boyd needs some time in a new system. Scoop McGinn has covered this but he is being asked to do everything different now compared to college. He stays and will be inactive. Miller is interesting in Jumbo packages. Good luck seeing the first down marker with Raji, Pickett, Miller and Jolly out there.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Miller is an UDFA who was on the Bears PS last year. Boyd was drafted this year. It's a tough call on Boyd. I think Jolly would help the team more this year, but Boyd might get picked up by someone if the Packers try to stash him on the PS. Very few of TT's draft picks from the first 5 rounds have not made the team that first year.

I guess I was confusing that other nose tackle taken in the 5th round, Micah Hyde. A lot of heart, but way undersized, IMO.

Miller was the guy who impressed me most in AZ game, maybe that's why I thought he was drafted. He gets a lot of push, moves well.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think, if Jolly continues to improve his conditioning, and his skills return, that he's a better player than Josh Boyd. I haven't read that Boyd has been impressive, at all. I wonder if he could be stashed on the PS.

If Miller is better now, then Boyd is expendable.

I sure want them to keep Jolly. Initially it was because he has been such a hard luck case, you want something good to happen for him. Now I think he's a lock to find a job somewhere, good for him. I want the Packers to keep him because he can be a monster, and I don't give a damn about his conditioning. Grady Jackson didn't need no stinkin conditioning. Let him play till he gets tired, good enough.

[hoosier]

What is making it tough to keep Jolly isn't Boyd, it's Wilson: he and JJ are more or less redundant. Boyd probably sticks around at the bottom of the roster with the hope that they can develop him and that next year he is part of the rotation; he could even fill in at NT in the base defense. As much as everyone wants to see him on the team, Jolly's age and his time away from the game make it unlikely that he can make the final cut.

[swede]

What is making it tough to keep Jolly isn't Boyd, it's Wilson: he and JJ are more or less redundant. Boyd probably sticks around at the bottom of the roster with the hope that they can develop him and that next year he is part of the rotation; he could even fill in at NT in the base defense. As much as everyone wants to see him on the team, Jolly's age and his time away from the game make it unlikely that he can make the final cut.

I sad...:(

I really didn't think that Jolly would have trouble making the team playing as well as he has. But Neal was a beast today according to MM and Wilson was very good last Friday vs AZ. I hope he continues to improve and make it hard for him to get the ask.

[Guiness]

A couple of surprises - House, Quarless and Neale, I would have expected them to be 'good bets'. Datko listed as a long shot - a bit of a surprise because many here seem high on him.

[Joemailman]

A couple of surprises - House, Quarless and Neale, I would have expected them to be 'good bets'. Datko listed as a long shot - a bit of a surprise because many here seem high on him.

House had a poor game, and was behind Hyde in practice this week, but he's still probably a good bet with the injuries to Williams and Hayward. Quarless is hurt again, and needs to show he can get on the field to make the team. Neal had a good practice today, and probably is a good bet due to his versatility. People were high on Datko before camp started, but reports are he hadn't had a good camp.

[Pugger]

Miller had a better game than Boyd. Boyd needs some time in a new system. Scoop McGinn has covered this but he is being asked to do everything different now compared to college. He stays and will be inactive. Miller is interesting in Jumbo packages. Good luck seeing the first down marker with Raji, Pickett, Miller and Jolly out there.

Is Boyd a PS candidate?

[Pugger]

House had a poor game, and was behind Hyde in practice this week, but he's still probably a good bet with the injuries to Williams and Hayward. Quarless is hurt again, and needs to show he can get on the field to make the team. Neal had a good practice today, and probably is a good bet due to his versatility. People were high on Datko before camp started, but reports are he hadn't had a good camp.

Is Datko practicing yet? I heard he had a concussion.

[Joemailman]

Is Datko practicing yet? I heard he had a concussion.

Boyd was a 5th round pick. I think there may be teams who were interested in drafting Boyd late who may snatch him if the Packers put him on their PS.

[Patler]

Is Datko practicing yet? I heard he had a concussion.

Not yet. Still "going through the process" as MM likes to stay.

[Fritz]

Not yet. Still "going through the process" as MM likes to stay.

Yes, though before that he wasn't having a good camp, according to reports.

I was high on Quarless, but I think it's true that he needs to get on the field and stay there in order to make this team. I think Mulligan and Finley are the locks, and whether the team keeps three or four TE's, Quarless is in a battle for his professional life with Williams, Bostick, Taylor, and maybe even Stonehenge.

I am not wondering if part of the reason the team is playing Neal at OLB is so they can count him as an OLB and thus keep an "extra" d-lineman.

[mraynrand]

I guess I was confusing that other nose tackle taken in the 5th round, Micah Hyde.

Micah Hyde is a very undersized nose tackle

[Harlan Huckleby]

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

[pbmax]

nm

[wist43]

McGinn starts out the article by saying -

"Two and a half weeks from now the 90-man roster will be slashed to 53. The questions uppermost in many minds are the identity of the No. 2 quarterback, the fates of Mason Crosby and Johnny Jolly and the chances of trading a surplus running back."

Apart from Johnny Jolly, I don't give a shit about any of those other things.

If we need to depend on our #2 QB, our season is sunk anyway; I expect an NFL kicker to make kicks, if it's Crosby or the other guy, I don't care; and a "surplus RB"?? WTF is that, heretofore we haven't had any RB's since Ahman Green ran out of gas - and the OL hasn't shown any signs of being able to run block the 3 running plays MM calls anyway.

Uppermost on my mind are - 1) is MM going to do anything to improve the run game?? - we already have that answer, no 2) is Capers going to play more than 2 DL at a time?? - we already have that answer, no 3) can anyone on the roster play ILB?? - we already have that answer, no.

So, we're picking up right where we left off - which was an embarrasing asskicking at the hands of SF. Capers "did his homework" supposedly - so maybe that means we only give up 440 yds of offense, and 175 on the ground... I guess that's progress, and a baby steps victory for you homers.

As for the roster... not much drama.

[Fritz]

McGinn starts out the article by saying -

"Two and a half weeks from now the 90-man roster will be slashed to 53. The questions uppermost in many minds are the identity of the No. 2 quarterback, the fates of Mason Crosby and Johnny Jolly and the chances of trading a surplus running back."

Apart from Johnny Jolly, I don't give a shit about any of those other things.

If we need to depend on our #2 QB, our season is sunk anyway; I expect an NFL kicker to make kicks, if it's Crosby or the other guy, I don't care; and a "surplus RB"?? WTF is that, heretofore we haven't had any RB's since Ahman Green ran out of gas - and the OL hasn't shown any signs of being able to run block the 3 running plays MM calls anyway.






Uppermost on my mind are - 1) is MM going to do anything to improve the run game?? - we
already have that answer, no 2) is Capers going to play more than 2 DL at a time?? - we already have that answer, no 3) can anyone on the roster play ILB?? - we already have that answer, no.

So, we're picking up right where we left off - which was an embarrasing asskicking at the hands of SF. Capers "did his homework" supposedly - so maybe that means we only give up 440 yds of offense, and 175 on the ground... I guess that's progress, and a baby steps victory for you homers.

As for the roster... not much drama.


Wow. It sucks to be Wist.

[Joemailman]

McGinn starts out the article by saying -

"Two and a half weeks from now the 90-man roster will be slashed to 53. The questions uppermost in many minds are the identity of the No. 2 quarterback, the fates of Mason Crosby and Johnny Jolly and the chances of trading a surplus running back."

Apart from Johnny Jolly, I don't give a shit about any of those other things.

If we need to depend on our #2 QB, our season is sunk anyway; I expect an NFL kicker to make kicks, if it's Crosby or the other guy, I don't care; and a "surplus RB"?? WTF is that, heretofore we haven't had any RB's since Ahman Green ran out of gas - and the OL hasn't shown any signs of being able to run block the 3 running plays MM calls anyway.

Uppermost on my mind are - 1) is MM going to do anything to improve the run game?? - we already have that answer, no 2) is Capers going to play more than 2 DL at a time?? - we already have that answer, no 3) can anyone on the roster play ILB?? - we already have that answer, no.

So, we're picking up right where we left off - which was an embarrasing asskicking at the hands of SF. Capers "did his homework" supposedly - so maybe that means we only give up 440 yds of offense, and 175 on the ground... I guess that's progress, and a baby steps victory for you homers.

As for the roster... not much drama.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1okb5EIo1nw

[wist43]

You guys are going to be near suicide after the Niner game, lol...

And why would it suck to be me?? Got laid by a sexy wife this morning, went to the fair and took our 3 year on a 157 rides (sore as hell, so I suppose that sucks :) ), and went to the farm to train horses the rest of the day... pretty good day by my reckoning :)

[pbmax]

You guys are going to be near suicide after the Niner game, lol...

And why would it suck to be me?? Got laid by a sexy wife this morning, went to the fair and took our 3 year on a 157 rides (sore as hell, so I suppose that sucks :) ), and went to the farm to train horses the rest of the day... pretty good day by my reckoning :)

No way, that only used to happen during Steeler victories. Once they finally bottomed out, I overcame it.

[KYPack]

Careful Wist.

Those are almost "Snakian" sentiments.

157 rides?

That's probably my lifetime total.

[wist43]

Careful Wist.

Those are almost "Snakian" sentiments.

157 rides?

That's probably my lifetime total.

Bought her an "all you can ride" wristband - her favorite "ride" is the slide... but she's too small to come down it alone - so daddy has to trek up allllll those stairs... doesn't look that high til you have to climb the stairs over and over, lol...

For 3 years old, she's the ultimate daredevil... wants to go on all the big rides. Wildest one I took her on was the Tilt-a-whirl... she screamed "weeeeeeee!!!!!!" the whole time, lol... it was fun. Gonna take her one more time, but mom can do all the heavy lifting this time :)

[Joemailman]

You guys are going to be near suicide after the Niner game, lol...

No we won't. We won't be the ones saying the season is finished if we lose to the 49ers. That will be you. Of course, I suppose you're already saying that. ;)

[denverYooper]

I never commit suicide until they are mathematically eliminated.

[denverYooper]

Careful Wist.

Those are almost "Snakian" sentiments.

157 rides?

That's probably my lifetime total.

Snake would bang his neighbor's wife and probably covet his manservant, maidservant, ox, and donkey.

Then at 3:32 am he'd randomly post an article on packerrats that we'd already been hashing over for days.

And Joe would gently admonish him.

[wist43]

No we won't. We won't be the ones saying the season is finished if we lose to the 49ers. That will be you. Of course, I suppose you're already saying that. ;)

I suspect we'll finish in the 9-7 to 11-5 range, and make an early exit from the playoffs - ala last year.

Yeah, I've already written the season off... will do the best I can to enjoy it (believe it or not :) ). Have 4 FF leagues to tend to... have a lot of revenge to deal out there. Should have won 2, but only won 1; was horrible in another; and snake bit in the other.

I don't have any expectations of the team - I see us as being fatally flawed, and they didn't do anything to fix those flaws; or at least what they did was not the right direction. So we're the same team that got absolutely slaughtered 6 months ago - not much has changed.

[wist43]

Snake would bang his neighbor's wife and probably covet his manservant, maidservant, ox, and donkey.

Then at 3:32 am he'd randomly post an article on packerrats that we'd already been hashing over for days.

And Joe would gently admonish him.

LOL :tup:

What would the world be without characters?? :)

[mraynrand]

I see us as being fatally flawed, and they didn't do anything to fix those flaws; or at least what they did was not the right direction. So we're the same team that got absolutely slaughtered 6 months ago - not much has changed.

I am chalking up the SF as a loss, but disagree that nothing had changed. Bulaga is still injured, but (knock on wood) if other injury stuff clears and new injuries don't pop up, they will have Perry and Jones in there in place of Walden and trash on the D-line. I see the loss of Woodson as addition by subtraction and on offense they will have the ability to control the clock a little better. A lot depends on Bacardi though. That's really the biggest unknown factor at this point. If he plays like an average tackle, we're far better off than last year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sounds like Ross might be close to locking up a position as a return man--even though he has struggled with inconsistency as a receiver.

http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/story/Jeremy-Ross-has-excellent-chance-to-beco?blockID=929783&feedID=5065


At the start of training camp, the Green Bay Packers were hoping that someone would perform well enough that Randall Cobb could be removed from special teams return duties. Jeremy Ross is getting very close to allowing the Packers to do just that.

"I think Jeremy has an excellent chance," coach Mike McCarthy said Thursday.

[RashanGary]

I struggle with generalized anxiety disorder and depression. Tonight, in particular was bad for me. I feel a sense of tormenting fear that lasts for an hour or two. I do things to cope.

Anyway, It's just about passed for me, then I read a wist post. The funny thing, it actually took the rest of the edge off. Anxiety for no reason is confusing. I truly believe there is a reason when it's happening. It feels so real, how can I not act on it or believe it. I think a part of my new coping strategy is going to be reading the wist posts so I can be reminded that my anxiety really is there for no reason and I don't have to do anything or change anything to make it go away. For much of my life, I'd get drunk, use drugs or whatever other form of escape method I could come up with (misplaced anger, isolation, obsessions). Now I know I can read irrational fears/anxieties from Wist and get confirmation that I don't have to do anything but ride it out. It's not real!!! :) :) :) Thank you, wist :) :) :)

[smuggler]

This is the roster, the way I see it.

QUARTERBACKS - 3
Aaron Rodgers, Graham Harrell, Vince Young

WIDE RECEIVERS - 5
Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Jarrett Boykin, Tyrone Walker

TIGHT ENDS - 4
Jermichael Finley, Andrew Quarless, Matthew Mulligan, Ryan Taylor

RUNNING BACKS - 4
Eddie Lacy, James Starks, DuJuan Harris, Johnathan Franklin

OFFENSIVE LINE - 8
David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton, Evan Dietrich-Smith, T.J. Lang, Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse, Greg Van Roten, Lane Taylor

(Bryan Bulaga, Derek Sherrod, J.C. Tretter on IR)

DEFENSIVE LINE - 7
Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji, Datone Jones, Mike Daniels, Mike Neal, C.J. Wilson, Johnny Jolly

(Jerel Worthy on IR)

LINEBACKERS - 9
Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Brad Jones, A.J. Hawk, Dezman Moses, Terrell Manning, Jamari Lattimore, Sam Barrington, Rob Francois

SECONDARY - 10
Morgan Burnett, Jerron McMillian, M.D. Jennings, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Casey Hayward, Davon House, Micah Hyde, Jarrett Bush, James Nixon/Loyce Means

(Sean Richardson on IR)

SPECIAL TEAMS - 3
Tim Masthay, Brett Goode, Mason Crosby

Vince Young is too new to the team to entrust with the backup job, so we'll have to keep 3 QBs on the 53 this season.

Johnson and Dorsey aren't going to make the 53, having been out for so long. Johnson is still out, while Dorsey is just getting back. If Dorsey actually shines a bit in the next three weeks, I suppose GB may be tempted to roster him to protect him from waivers, but I don't see it happening. Ross could sneak in as a returner, but he'll never be a good receiver, so I expect him to be on the outside looking in.

D.J. Williams continues to disappoint. I feel like Finley and Mulligan are pretty much guaranteed at this point, and since Taylor plays so well on special teams, he'll probably be in. If Quarless can be healthy by cut-down day, he should be on the team. I don't think Bostick makes the team better, as long as Finley is healthy. If Quarless can't hang, Stoneburner may take that slot.

Kuhn is the big cut, the way I see it. He's just not necessary. If the wind hits Starks just the right way, and he crumbles, then I could see Kuhn still on the roster.

The offensive line is pretty simple, since we have three guys who aren't actually healthy enough to play.

I have Jolly making the team. It depends a lot on how well Boyd plays in the coming weeks. We may keep Boyd instead, or as well. I don't think we could stash him on the practice squad.

I don't think there's much risk of losing NaPalm to waivers, and he doesn't appear ready to contribute to the team. Barrington, on the other hand, actually looks serviceable now.

I could see Bush or Francois getting cut, but my gut tells me they're both going to hang on for one more season. I really wants us to keep Banjo, but methinks we shouldn't, and methinks we won't. Depending on how Nixon and Means play over the coming weeks, we may keep one of them, or add another DL.

Crosby was behind in the kicker competition, but I somehow still expect him to win it.

[Guiness]

Good analysis Smuggler.

The main thing I'd disagree with is that they keep 3QBs. I just don't see it, look at Harrell last year and they went with just him - essentially a wing and a prayer.

If they decide to keep Young, even if Harrell is better he'll get cut, because no one will pick him up and they can just call him at home if he's needed.

[hoosier]

I struggle with generalized anxiety disorder and depression. Tonight, in particular was bad for me. I feel a sense of tormenting fear that lasts for an hour or two. I do things to cope.

Anyway, It's just about passed for me, then I read a wist post. The funny thing, it actually took the rest of the edge off. Anxiety for no reason is confusing. I truly believe there is a reason when it's happening. It feels so real, how can I not act on it or believe it. I think a part of my new coping strategy is going to be reading the wist posts so I can be reminded that my anxiety really is there for no reason and I don't have to do anything or change anything to make it go away. For much of my life, I'd get drunk, use drugs or whatever other form of escape method I could come up with (misplaced anger, isolation, obsessions). Now I know I can read irrational fears/anxieties from Wist and get confirmation that I don't have to do anything but ride it out. It's not real!!! :) :) :) Thank you, wist :) :) :)

It's kind of like the laugh track on TV shows: it laughs (or frets) so that you don't have to. :-)

[Maxie the Taxi]

Good post, Smuggler, at this stage of the preseason. I have a feeling things will change once other guys around the league start leaving their teams and the Pack picks them up. Could be things will change drastically. In my mind many of the backup positions are toss ups as far as who stays and goes.

[KYPack]

Bought her an "all you can ride" wristband - her favorite "ride" is the slide... but she's too small to come down it alone - so daddy has to trek up allllll those stairs... doesn't look that high til you have to climb the stairs over and over, lol...

For 3 years old, she's the ultimate daredevil... wants to go on all the big rides. Wildest one I took her on was the Tilt-a-whirl... she screamed "weeeeeeee!!!!!!" the whole time, lol... it was fun. Gonna take her one more time, but mom can do all the heavy lifting this time :)

Actually, Snake would bang a porn star standing up in a hammock. Then he would do a back flip into the ocean and come up perfectly dry, to give us his analysis of the play-off loss to SF.

OK Wist, 157 rides on some sort of ride. I thought you meant 157 horseback rides, you'd be in 579 territory with that claim.

I'd also tell you to not be soo negative, but you wouldn't listen to that shit anyway.

[wist43]

I struggle with generalized anxiety disorder and depression. Tonight, in particular was bad for me. I feel a sense of tormenting fear that lasts for an hour or two. I do things to cope.

Anyway, It's just about passed for me, then I read a wist post. The funny thing, it actually took the rest of the edge off. Anxiety for no reason is confusing. I truly believe there is a reason when it's happening. It feels so real, how can I not act on it or believe it. I think a part of my new coping strategy is going to be reading the wist posts so I can be reminded that my anxiety really is there for no reason and I don't have to do anything or change anything to make it go away. For much of my life, I'd get drunk, use drugs or whatever other form of escape method I could come up with (misplaced anger, isolation, obsessions). Now I know I can read irrational fears/anxieties from Wist and get confirmation that I don't have to do anything but ride it out. It's not real!!! :) :) :) Thank you, wist :) :) :)

Dr. Wist, Therapist... shoulda been a series on right after Trapper John, M.D.

Glad to help :)

[Bossman641]

I'll give it a shot

QUARTERBACKS - 2
Rodgers and Young assuming he picks up the offense. If not Harrell gets another year. Coleman to PS.

RUNNING BACKS - 4
Lacy, Harris, Franklin, and Green. Going Green over Starks for youth/upside reasons though if he continues to miss practices due to his knee flaring up that will change. Sorry Kuhn but your time has passed.

WIDE RECEIVERS - 6
Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Boykin, Ross, Walker. Johnson or Dorsey to the PS

TIGHT ENDS - 4
Finley, Mulligan, Quarless, Taylor. Finley and Mulligan are locks IMO. Of the other 2, I think MM will want to keep a receiving TE and a blocking TE to cover the loss of Kuhn. Quarless is a complete unknown to me and I won't even try to guess who's a better blocker between Williams/Taylor/Stoneburner. If the Packers think Quarless will never recover I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep Bostick and one of the others. I'm intrigued by what McGinn said about Stoneburner - good speed and a nasty blocking demeanor.

OFFENSIVE LINE - 8
Bakhtiari, Sitton, EDS, Lang, Barclay, Newhouse, Van Roten, Taylor. Sherrod to PUP

DEFENSIVE LINE - 8
Pickett, Raji, Jones, Daniels, Wilson, Jolly, Neal, Miller

LINEBACKERS - 9
CM3, Jones, Hawk, Perry, Moses, Lattimore, Barrington, Francois, Mulumba. I want to see Manning but he seems to be having a quiet camp

SECONDARY - 9
Tramon, Shields, Hayward, Hyde, House, Bush, Burnett, McMillian, Jennings

SPECIAL TEAMS - 3
Goode, Masthay, Crosby

[wist43]

I am chalking up the SF as a loss, but disagree that nothing had changed. Bulaga is still injured, but (knock on wood) if other injury stuff clears and new injuries don't pop up, they will have Perry and Jones in there in place of Walden and trash on the D-line. I see the loss of Woodson as addition by subtraction and on offense they will have the ability to control the clock a little better. A lot depends on Bacardi though. That's really the biggest unknown factor at this point. If he plays like an average tackle, we're far better off than last year.

I agree that a healthy Perry, and an upgrade in Jones should help quite a bit in the front five/six - but the bigger problem is just that, Capers runs a 2-4 more than anything else; and you know full well what his MO is when he gets a sack on 2nd down. 3rd and 16, Capers will rush 3, and play the vaunted picket fence defense with everyone sitting at 20 yards. The receiver catches the ball at about the 13-14 yd mark, and happily skips past the 1st down marker before the first defender appears on the screen.

As for Woodson - I think he was let go more for insubordination than b/c he lost a step. He all-but called out Capers after the SF debacle... as well he should have. Capers saying he didn't know what to do was completely unacceptable, and Woodson was disgusted by it - so was I. Yet, it is Woodson who is shown the door and not Capers??

In terms of what Woodson is paid to do, and what Capers is paid to do - who has more obviously "lost a step"?? How Capers still has a job is beyond me. Woodson will be sorely missed in that secondary and in the locker room.

Bacteria looked okay in his debut, but he's still an underpowered nancyboy - which is the type of OL the Packers covet. The problem is the Packers philosophy - Max and some of the others point to ZBS successes elsewhere, but it is a very fine line... maybe it is the case that the ZBS can only be taught to success by a very few talented coaches and personnel evaluators, and given that the NFL is a copycat league, others try it and fail miserably??

I don't know... whatever it is, the Packers haven't been able to run the ball - except for that stretch run in '10 - since MM has been here. The philosphy sucks IMO; I hate small, underpowered anything; and you give up so much in other ways as well. It's fancypants football, and you're setting yourself up to be pushed around on the LOS before you've snapped the ball - and we see that played out every week.

None of that is going to change - none of that has changed. Capers needs to go, and MM needs to get his head out of his ass and incorporate some power blocking into his OL play. I don't expect either to happen, and I fully expect we'll languish at this plateau until Rodgers is knocked senseless or retires.

[wist43]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hope that post helps ya get thru the day today JH :)

[packer4life]

I agree that a healthy Perry, and an upgrade in Jones should help quite a bit in the front five/six - but the bigger problem is just that, Capers runs a 2-4 more than anything else; and you know full well what his MO is when he gets a sack on 2nd down. 3rd and 16, Capers will rush 3, and play the vaunted picket fence defense with everyone sitting at 20 yards. The receiver catches the ball at about the 13-14 yd mark, and happily skips past the 1st down marker before the first defender appears on the screen.

As for Woodson - I think he was let go more for insubordination than b/c he lost a step. He all-but called out Capers after the SF debacle... as well he should have. Capers saying he didn't know what to do was completely unacceptable, and Woodson was disgusted by it - so was I. Yet, it is Woodson who is shown the door and not Capers??

In terms of what Woodson is paid to do, and what Capers is paid to do - who has more obviously "lost a step"?? How Capers still has a job is beyond me. Woodson will be sorely missed in that secondary and in the locker room.

Bacteria looked okay in his debut, but he's still an underpowered nancyboy - which is the type of OL the Packers covet. The problem is the Packers philosophy - Max and some of the others point to ZBS successes elsewhere, but it is a very fine line... maybe it is the case that the ZBS can only be taught to success by a very few talented coaches and personnel evaluators, and given that the NFL is a copycat league, others try it and fail miserably??

I don't know... whatever it is, the Packers haven't been able to run the ball - except for that stretch run in '10 - since MM has been here. The philosphy sucks IMO; I hate small, underpowered anything; and you give up so much in other ways as well. It's fancypants football, and you're setting yourself up to be pushed around on the LOS before you've snapped the ball - and we see that played out every week.

None of that is going to change - none of that has changed. Capers needs to go, and MM needs to get his head out of his ass and incorporate some power blocking into his OL play. I don't expect either to happen, and I fully expect we'll languish at this plateau until Rodgers is knocked senseless or retires.

Woodson will be sorely missed!? Are you fucking crazy. This guy was great 4 years ago. He is now old, fragile, makes coverage look like absolute guesswork, no longer has the tools to play rover, slips off of any somewhat strong RB, is rarely available when needed on gameday, and is not close to disciplined enough to play safety in Capers' scheme. This guy thought he was Polumalu out there, problem was he lacked his skillset and instinct at safety.

Put up a poll right now, you are the only guy on this forum who will say we should've kept Woodson. I know you are a smart guy, but gimme a break. Our line may lack physicality, but to trumpet cutting Woodson as some sort of plan to debunk insubordination is just ludicrous. Pop in tape of that 49ers game, Woodson was responsible for points on the board based on bad decisions. I love the man, but it was time to go before the switch to safety was even attempted.

[mraynrand]

Put up a poll right now, you are the only guy on this forum who will say we should've kept Woodson. I know you are a smart guy, but gimme a break. Our line may lack physicality, but to trumpet cutting Woodson as some sort of plan to debunk insubordination is just ludicrous. Pop in tape of that 49ers game, Woodson was responsible for points on the board based on bad decisions. I love the man, but it was time to go before the switch to safety was even attempted.

QFT

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'll give it a shot

I agree with your entire roster, so you've lost your way.

Actually, one difference is that I expect Starks is kept rather than Green, but that is a coin flip.

[Upnorth]

I agree that a healthy Perry, and an upgrade in Jones should help quite a bit in the front five/six - but the bigger problem is just that, Capers runs a 2-4 more than anything else; and you know full well what his MO is when he gets a sack on 2nd down. 3rd and 16, Capers will rush 3, and play the vaunted picket fence defense with everyone sitting at 20 yards. The receiver catches the ball at about the 13-14 yd mark, and happily skips past the 1st down marker before the first defender appears on the screen.

As for Woodson - I think he was let go more for insubordination than b/c he lost a step. He all-but called out Capers after the SF debacle... as well he should have. Capers saying he didn't know what to do was completely unacceptable, and Woodson was disgusted by it - so was I. Yet, it is Woodson who is shown the door and not Capers??

In terms of what Woodson is paid to do, and what Capers is paid to do - who has more obviously "lost a step"?? How Capers still has a job is beyond me. Woodson will be sorely missed in that secondary and in the locker room.

Bacteria looked okay in his debut, but he's still an underpowered nancyboy - which is the type of OL the Packers covet. The problem is the Packers philosophy - Max and some of the others point to ZBS successes elsewhere, but it is a very fine line... maybe it is the case that the ZBS can only be taught to success by a very few talented coaches and personnel evaluators, and given that the NFL is a copycat league, others try it and fail miserably??

I don't know... whatever it is, the Packers haven't been able to run the ball - except for that stretch run in '10 - since MM has been here. The philosphy sucks IMO; I hate small, underpowered anything; and you give up so much in other ways as well. It's fancypants football, and you're setting yourself up to be pushed around on the LOS before you've snapped the ball - and we see that played out every week.

None of that is going to change - none of that has changed. Capers needs to go, and MM needs to get his head out of his ass and incorporate some power blocking into his OL play. I don't expect either to happen, and I fully expect we'll languish at this plateau until Rodgers is knocked senseless or retires.

Re Woodson fired for insubordination, I don't think some one insubordinate turns around and defends that organizations greatness. Sorry he was let go for performance not belligerence

[pbmax]

I think 8 D lineman would be a record for this defense under Capers.

[wist43]

Re Woodson fired for insubordination, I don't think some one insubordinate turns around and defends that organizations greatness. Sorry he was let go for performance not belligerence

To be sure he had fallen off - but I don't think his comments about Capers being a dunderhead, flaming idiot, hairpainting moron, helped.

If you want to defend Capers, go ahead, be my guest.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Woodson will be sorely missed!? Are you fucking crazy. This guy was great 4 years ago. He is now old, fragile, makes coverage look like absolute guesswork, no longer has the tools to play rover, slips off of any somewhat strong RB, is rarely available when needed on gameday, and is not close to disciplined enough to play safety in Capers' scheme. This guy thought he was Polumalu out there, problem was he lacked his skillset and instinct at safety.

Put up a poll right now, you are the only guy on this forum who will say we should've kept Woodson. I know you are a smart guy, but gimme a break. Our line may lack physicality, but to trumpet cutting Woodson as some sort of plan to debunk insubordination is just ludicrous. Pop in tape of that 49ers game, Woodson was responsible for points on the board based on bad decisions. I love the man, but it was time to go before the switch to safety was even attempted.

All I know is that Woodson was good for two or three defensive holding/pass interference calls a game which we'll do without this year.

[mraynrand]

To be sure he had fallen off - but I don't think comments about Capers being a dunderhead, flaming idiot, hairpainting moron, helped.


that's what got you fired, not Woodson

[Bossman641]

I think 8 D lineman would be a record for this defense under Capers.

Ya, 8 would be high but Neal is a hybrid DL anyways. Plus, with all the contracts up after this year I think they'll go heavier than normal to really see what they've got

[Smeefers]

That's the point: Mulligan easily fills (and surpasses) Crabtree in blocking, and they expect Quarless to easily surpass Crabtree in pass receiving. Some of Crabtree's successes were from exploiting defensive schemes that reasonably underestimated Crabtree (e.g. the TD versus AZ). So the subterfuge will be missing, but the skill levels in blocking and pass receiving increased, hypothetically.

I thought most of Crabtree's success came from staying freaking healthy.

I never understood the point of keeping all this talent that refuses to stay healthy. There's some guys I'll give a pass on like Bulaga, but 3rd string tight ends? Gimmie a break. You're starting your 2nd season on injury after spending the whole last season on injury? See ya later alligator, after while crocodile. Don't forget to write.

[wist43]

Actually, Snake would bang a porn star standing up in a hammock.

Is this a Kama Suthra thing?? How would that work?? Do you have pics you can give us as an example?? I'd like to give it a shot, but we don't have a hammock, and my wife is very short... she's a trooper and all, but like the Seinfeld sex advice episode - "if there's more than a 10" difference in your height, you could hurt your neck" :)


OK Wist, 157 rides on some sort of ride. I thought you meant 157 horseback rides, you'd be in 579 territory with that claim.

Mom did the heavy lifting last night... kids were both passed out before we got out of the parking lot - mission accomplished. 579 rides would be about right... the "all you can ride" wristband is a lifesaver. Dad can sit in the rest area, mom can wave from the fence, and the kid can just keep making a circle from the exit to the entrance :)


I'd also tell you to not be soo negative, but you wouldn't listen to that shit anyway.

Any number line that doesn't include negative numbers is not a number line is it?? It is not reality...

31-45 = -14

Whereas, 45-31 = 14

Are we making progress on the whole math thing??

[wist43]

I think 8 D lineman would be a record for this defense under Capers.

Then we should just dispense with pretense, and outright go to a 4-3.

Instead, we're stuck with the 2-4 as our base... what's the point of having 6 DL standing on the sideline or inactive every week??

Jones might have been a good pick if we ran something other than a 2-4, as it is, our entire front six is a waste.

[Smeefers]

I think, if Jolly continues to improve his conditioning, and his skills return, that he's a better player than Josh Boyd. I haven't read that Boyd has been impressive, at all. I wonder if he could be stashed on the PS. He seems to be not quite a nose tackle, not quite a -4 DE.

I think Jolly is still an extremely long shot to make this team. We have 3 first round draft picks for our DL. I like rotational guys, but it's a young mans game and Jolly doesn't have time to be playing catch up. If and only if he can come in at or above the level he was at when he left will he make the team. If he comes in lower, that probably means he's in the decline of his career, that means I want a younger kid who's still getting better.

[Carolina_Packer]

The part that didn't sink in until I read the article but with which I can't disagree is that MM and TT seem to have accepted that Coleman has too much development in front of him to challenge Harrel--Harrell--for the Q2 spot before the season starts.

I'm hoping this doesn't mean they're giving up on him. I liked the pick last year, and think he's got a chance. Hopefully he just needs another offseason.

Smidge, I think that if VY distinguishes himself, that he might become the back-up to AR, and Harrell might be shown the door. You can practices as well as you want, be a smart guy in the running backs room, but if you go out on game day and are inconsistent (no Matt Flynn moxie), then you've probably reached your upside. I think if they make VY the back-up, then they almost have to have Coleman as the third as an insurance policy. That's if they see more upside in Coleman, but they need to see progress from him in game action too.

[Smeefers]

I suspect we'll finish in the 9-7 to 11-5 range, and make an early exit from the playoffs - ala last year.

Yeah, I've already written the season off... will do the best I can to enjoy it (believe it or not :) ). Have 4 FF leagues to tend to... have a lot of revenge to deal out there. Should have won 2, but only won 1; was horrible in another; and snake bit in the other.

I don't have any expectations of the team - I see us as being fatally flawed, and they didn't do anything to fix those flaws; or at least what they did was not the right direction. So we're the same team that got absolutely slaughtered 6 months ago - not much has changed.


See, I don't get the fatally flawed thing. I thought it's been proven that any kind of team can at least get you to the SB. It doesn't matter if you can pound it on the ground, if you're a scoring machine, or if you just have amazing special teams. Remember when the bears got to the SB vs Indy? Who'd they have on their team? Deven Hester and a monster D.

The more you have on O, the less you need on D, but you have to have something there. You're right in that giving up 600 yards in a game is not acceptable, but you don't need a top 5 D to get to the big game, especially when you have rodgers at the helm.

Gah, why do I even try? Nevermind. You're right, they suck. Whatevs.

[wist43]

See, I don't get the fatally flawed thing. I thought it's been proven that any kind of team can at least get you to the SB. It doesn't matter if you can pound it on the ground, if you're a scoring machine, or if you just have amazing special teams. Remember when the bears got to the SB vs Indy? Who'd they have on their team? Deven Hester and a monster D.

The more you have on O, the less you need on D, but you have to have something there. You're right in that giving up 600 yards in a game is not acceptable, but you don't need a top 5 D to get to the big game, especially when you have rodgers at the helm.

Gah, why do I even try? Nevermind. You're right, they suck. Whatevs.

We snuck in a window in '10... it happens. The level of competition was watered down that year - we got on a roll, and we got lucky.

The same can be said of Indy - lower level of competition that year. Great QB, watered down competition... they got lucky - one and done. Same as us.

And since when have any of the homers on here said giving up 600 yds is unacceptable?? They make excuses for it, and dismiss it as a fluke. They accept our SB win as the trend line, and dismiss the preponderance of negative evidence around them as outliers.

Like you just did - "... you don't need a top 5 D... especially when you have Rodgers at the helm". You're perfectly willing to accept shitty defense, b/c in the homer view, Rodgers will clean up the mess.

I guess that is the same approach TT and MM have as well.

[mraynrand]

We snuck in a window in '10... it happens. The level of competition was watered down that year - we got on a roll, and we got lucky.

The same can be said of Indy - lower level of competition that year. Great QB, watered down competition... they got lucky - one and done. Same as us.

And since when have any of the homers on here said giving up 600 yds is unacceptable?? They make excuses for it, and dismiss it as a fluke. They accept our SB win as the trend line, and dismiss the preponderance of negative evidence around them as outliers.

Like you just did - "... you don't need a top 5 D... especially when you have Rodgers at the helm". You're perfectly willing to accept shitty defense, b/c in the homer view, Rodgers will clean up the mess.

I guess that is the same approach TT and MM have as well.

jesus what a nag

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7qpyaOv3gjM/TOroexkExzI/AAAAAAAABIU/tsV9pVG8U7U/s320/nagging-wife-saidaonline.jpg

[ThunderDan]

jesus what a nag

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7qpyaOv3gjM/TOroexkExzI/AAAAAAAABIU/tsV9pVG8U7U/s320/nagging-wife-saidaonline.jpg

How did you get a picture of my first wife?

[smuggler]

I also think they'll go heavy on the DL. In part, I think it's because they want to keep Raji et al fresh throughout games. Having our DL get winded really screwed us last season, specifically in the case of Raji.

[packer4life]

I thought they effectively cut Raji's snaps by a significant percentage last year and still he had a down year. I don't think its a factor of Raji getting winded, he played way more snaps 2 years ago...

[Smeefers]

We snuck in a window in '10... it happens. The level of competition was watered down that year - we got on a roll, and we got lucky.

The same can be said of Indy - lower level of competition that year. Great QB, watered down competition... they got lucky - one and done. Same as us.

And since when have any of the homers on here said giving up 600 yds is unacceptable?? They make excuses for it, and dismiss it as a fluke. They accept our SB win as the trend line, and dismiss the preponderance of negative evidence around them as outliers.

Like you just did - "... you don't need a top 5 D... especially when you have Rodgers at the helm". You're perfectly willing to accept shitty defense, b/c in the homer view, Rodgers will clean up the mess.

I guess that is the same approach TT and MM have as well.

Claiming to accept a less than excellent defense is not the same as embracing the fact that we had one of the worst D's in the league.

I just saw bright spots that I believe we can build on.

[wist43]

Claiming to accept a less than excellent defense is not the same as embracing the fact that we had one of the worst D's in the league.

I just saw bright spots that I believe we can build on.

I see bright spots too - I like a lot of the players on defense; but there are a few fundamental, philosophical flaws that will sink us against power teams, i.e. the 2-4 can't hold up as a base front, they don't value 2-gap players at all, and they think pedestrian ILB's are just fine - actually, terrible ILB's are just fine.

They can get away with those flaws against Jacksonville - you saw what SF will do to us. They did nothing to address any of those problems.

And worst of all - Mr. Spraypaintedhair is still our DC. We might not give up 600 yds to SF again, and Kapnerfucker might not run for an all-time QB rushing record again, but I fully expect a repeat of game 1 from a year ago.

The final score of that game was 30-22 - but the game was never that close, and it was never in doubt. SF had their hand on our head the entire time, and bitch slapped us on national TV, on our home turf.

We only gave up 186 yds rushing in that game; whereas we had 45 yds rushing ourselves (27 from Rodgers) - that sounds about right this time around as well.

And you guys continually give me grief b/c I point out these obvious facts - we cannot run the ball, and we cannot stop the run. It is what it is.

[Smeefers]

I see bright spots too - I like a lot of the players on defense; but there are a few fundamental, philosophical flaws that will sink us against power teams, i.e. the 2-4 can't hold up as a base front, they don't value 2-gap players at all, and they think pedestrian ILB's are just fine - actually, terrible ILB's are just fine.

They can get away with those flaws against Jacksonville - you saw what SF will do to us. They did nothing to address any of those problems.

And worst of all - Mr. Spraypaintedhair is still our DC. We might not give up 600 yds to SF again, and Kapnerfucker might not run for an all-time QB rushing record again, but I fully expect a repeat of game 1 from a year ago.

The final score of that game was 30-22 - but the game was never that close, and it was never in doubt. SF had their hand on our head the entire time, and bitch slapped us on national TV, on our home turf.

We only gave up 186 yds rushing in that game; whereas we had 45 yds rushing ourselves (27 from Rodgers) - that sounds about right this time around as well.

And you guys continually give me grief b/c I point out these obvious facts - we cannot run the ball, and we cannot stop the run. It is what it is.

You're assuming that the team can't grow, can't learn from past mistakes when in reality I've seen evidence to the contrary. I remember we used to have a laundry list of crap we hated that MM was doing. What happened to that? It's not being brought up any more because he's grown as a coach and has eliminated many of his chronic mistakes. To assume DC is just going to keep shrugging his shoulders and go with schemes that don't work, well, that just doesn't make sense to me.

As for the San Fran Game last year - It doesn't freaking matter. New team, different year. Hell, if the Pack gets whooped in the season opener and we end up facing the 49ers in the playoffs again, I'd still say that the first game we played in the beginning of the season has no bearing on how a playoff game is going to turn out. Teams change, grow, get better or worse.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Jolly is still an extremely long shot to make this team.

repent, sinner

[Joemailman]

repent, sinner

Clearly, Jolly was reading Packerrats and was motivated by Smeefers' post. Perhaps we should allow him to adjust his forecast before judging him too harshly.

[pbmax]

DEFENSIVE LINE - 8
Pickett, Raji, Jones, Daniels, Wilson, Jolly, Neal, Miller

LINEBACKERS - 9
CM3, Jones, Hawk, Perry, Moses, Lattimore, Barrington, Francois, Mulumba. I want to see Manning but he seems to be having a quiet camp


If you put Neal at Linebacker and stick one of Mulumba or Barrington on the practice squad (or give up on Francois or Lattimore if a new guy can replace them on STs) then the numbers work.

7 D line and 9 LBs isn't too far fetched, though I bet its one more than typical.

[Joemailman]

Guys ho helped their chances Friday Night:

Jolly - Involved in 2 T.O.'s and at least 1 TFL.
Mulumba - Showing more than Moses
Crosby - Just needs to match Tavecchio because his kickoffs are better
Harrell - Played well. Victiized by some drops.
Coleman - Produced only TD.
Bostick - Played better than D.J. Williams
Stoneburner - Great TD catch

Guys who hurt their chances:

Starks - Fumble hurt.
Green - Continues to look as ordinary as last year.
D.J. Williams - Mix of catches and drops. Bostick was better.
Brandon Smith - Gave up a TD pas, but worse, a major ST error.
Moses - Bad missed tackle. Mulumba was better.

[denverYooper]

One of TT's more meaningful comments last week was that Jolly was a guy just born with natural football instincts.

[Patler]

If you put Neal at Linebacker and stick one of Mulumba or Barrington on the practice squad (or give up on Francois or Lattimore if a new guy can replace them on STs) then the numbers work.

7 D line and 9 LBs isn't too far fetched, though I bet its one more than typical.

That leaves them with 9 Dbs, which they have done before, but when you start filling names into slots this year, you would like to have 10 DB's too,

Four safeties, although I'm not sure who the fourth would be (Banjo??), so they might only keep three, and plan on picking up a fourth if injuries hit. They will only have three active for games anyway.

Five CBs - Williams, Shields, Hayward, House, Hyde

Unless they go with only 3 safeties, it leaves no place for Bush (many won't mind that) or any of the youngsters like Means or Nixon. Smith is probably destined for PS anyway, maybe with at least one of Means and Nixon.

[Patler]

Guys ho helped their chances Friday Night:

Jolly - Involved in 2 T.O.'s and at least 1 TFL.
Mulumba - Showing more than Moses
Crosby - Just needs to match Tavecchio because his kickoffs are better
Harrell - Played well. Victiized by some drops.
Coleman - Produced only TD.
Bostick - Played better than D.J. Williams
Stoneburner - Great TD catch

Guys who hurt their chances:

Starks - Fumble hurt.
Green - Continues to look as ordinary as last year.
D.J. Williams - Mix of catches and drops. Bostick was better.
Brandon Smith - Gave up a TD pas, but worse, a major ST error.
Moses - Bad missed tackle. Mulumba was better.

Mostly agree. Past years DJ Williams has had good preseasons, then disappeared during the regular season. So far he has not had a good preseason. I think he has an uphill battle to make the roster.

Smith doesn't have a chance of making the 53 man roster, probably never did. He is a recent conversion to DB from WR, and the coaches seem intrigued by his size, speed and quickness to learn. I look for him to land on the PS.

The linebacker cuts will be interesting. I can see it going several ways, especially if you factor in a PS spot or two for linebackers.

Quarless better get on the field, or he could be in jeopardy of being cut, too.

Starks vs Green might go down to the wire. Things being equal, I expect they will go with Green.

[Patler]

Forgot to mention Jolly. Kind of nice seeing him be what he was when last he played; a guy who disrupts things and causes stuff to happen. Unless something goes horribly wrong in the next two weeks, I think he sewed up a spot last night.

I hope they can get Boyd to the PS.

[mraynrand]

I think all you homers are deluding yourselves. It's obvious from last night that the Packers can't stop the run because the organization isn't interested in bringing in linemen who can 2-gap, and Capers will never do anything to effectively stop the run. He'll play 2-4 defenses and give up hundreds of yards, and no matter how efficient Rodgers can play, they will never find a Tackle that can protect him properly. Even though that idiot Thomson thinks bringing a couple of backs will 'solve' the running game problem, McCarthy will just revert back to his stubborn unwillingness to commit to the run game - and who can blame him when Thomson won't draft decent OL players. Meanwhile, back on the defense, we'll hear all this stuff about exotic Caper's alignments, but the team isn't big enough or tough enough to stop anyone, and we all know that any recent success was just a fluke resulting from down years from other teams. This team will get run roughshod by the Niners, and we'll be calling for Caper's head and be right back to where we started at the end of last year, which is to say with a weak, slow, undersized defense that can't stop the run, cant get to the QB, and can't cover the middle of the field. Keep pretending it's not true, Packer homers, you will be singing a different tune in a few weeks.

[packer4life]

repent, sinner

Joemailman just owned you.

Jolly makes this team AND improves it. After 3 years, it is as if he was just dropped onto our front doorstep.

[Rutnstrut]

We snuck in a window in '10... it happens. The level of competition was watered down that year - we got on a roll, and we got lucky.

The same can be said of Indy - lower level of competition that year. Great QB, watered down competition... they got lucky - one and done. Same as us.

And since when have any of the homers on here said giving up 600 yds is unacceptable?? They make excuses for it, and dismiss it as a fluke. They accept our SB win as the trend line, and dismiss the preponderance of negative evidence around them as outliers.

Like you just did - "... you don't need a top 5 D... especially when you have Rodgers at the helm". You're perfectly willing to accept shitty defense, b/c in the homer view, Rodgers will clean up the mess.

I guess that is the same approach TT and MM have as well.

Holy fuck, there's an actual realist on this board. I thought it was just full of kool-aid chugging homers that refuse to see the truth.

[bobblehead]

We snuck in a window in '10... it happens. The level of competition was watered down that year - we got on a roll, and we got lucky.

The same can be said of Indy - lower level of competition that year. Great QB, watered down competition... they got lucky - one and done. Same as us.

And since when have any of the homers on here said giving up 600 yds is unacceptable?? They make excuses for it, and dismiss it as a fluke. They accept our SB win as the trend line, and dismiss the preponderance of negative evidence around them as outliers.

Like you just did - "... you don't need a top 5 D... especially when you have Rodgers at the helm". You're perfectly willing to accept shitty defense, b/c in the homer view, Rodgers will clean up the mess.

I guess that is the same approach TT and MM have as well.

In a true statistical anomally we followed up being "lucky" by going 15-1 the next season. Nobody wins it every year. NE is the only team to dominate in the cap era. This team is good. We have a shot to get "lucky" every year. If your prediction is that we will get beat at some point before winning the superbowl, you are probably right. If you are wrong; we win it; and you call it luck...well you're just that, wrong.

[bobblehead]

That leaves them with 9 Dbs, which they have done before, but when you start filling names into slots this year, you would like to have 10 DB's too,

Four safeties, although I'm not sure who the fourth would be (Banjo??), so they might only keep three, and plan on picking up a fourth if injuries hit. They will only have three active for games anyway.

Five CBs - Williams, Shields, Hayward, House, Hyde

Unless they go with only 3 safeties, it leaves no place for Bush (many won't mind that) or any of the youngsters like Means or Nixon. Smith is probably destined for PS anyway, maybe with at least one of Means and Nixon.

I would expect Hyde is getting some work at safety. He fills the emergency safety role. I like Richardson a lot, but it looks like another injury ruined career.

[bobblehead]

McCarthy will just revert back to his stubborn unwillingness to commit to the run game - .

You got one point correct whilst trying to be sarcastic. I will be screaming by week 5 that we only had 9 run plays called in each of the last 3 games. We will lose 2 of those. Pb will tell me that running isn't important and look, we called 26 running plays this week and won afterall, proving that MM calls a lot of running plays.

[bobblehead]

Holy fuck, there's an actual realist on this board. I thought it was just full of kool-aid chugging homers that refuse to see the truth.

Hey, move to vegas...its built on guys who believe in "luck". You and wist can go broke and blame bad luck.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you put Neal at Linebacker and stick one of Mulumba or Barrington on the practice squad (or give up on Francois or Lattimore if a new guy can replace them on STs) then the numbers work.

OK, I'm being really harsh based on exactly two plays, but Neal looked confused & a step slow at LB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Joemailman just owned you.

Jolly makes this team AND improves it. After 3 years, it is as if he was just dropped onto our front doorstep.

Joemailman is merciful and weak. Mercy is a weakness. Shoot all prisoners.

[wist43]

In a true statistical anomally we followed up being "lucky" by going 15-1 the next season. Nobody wins it every year. NE is the only team to dominate in the cap era. This team is good. We have a shot to get "lucky" every year. If your prediction is that we will get beat at some point before winning the superbowl, you are probably right. If you are wrong; we win it; and you call it luck...well you're just that, wrong.

Yeah, we have a shot every year b/c we have a QB - "a punchers chance".

What makes it luck as opposed to being "the real deal" is defense and OL play. Teams like the Niners and Seahawks may not win it all either, but they're in the conversation b/c of strength, not a "punchers chance".

That's the difference.

Just as someone brought up the Colts - I thought they were a flawed team too... "a punchers chance", and "one and done".

Their OL was similar to ours - underpowered; and their defense was similar to ours - also underpowered. I think our defense has more potential than theirs did, but we have Capers holding us back, so it's probably a wash.

[denverYooper]

I think all you homers are deluding yourselves. It's obvious from last night that the Packers can't stop the run because the organization isn't interested in bringing in linemen who can 2-gap, and Capers will never do anything to effectively stop the run. He'll play 2-4 defenses and give up hundreds of yards, and no matter how efficient Rodgers can play, they will never find a Tackle that can protect him properly. Even though that idiot Thomson thinks bringing a couple of backs will 'solve' the running game problem, McCarthy will just revert back to his stubborn unwillingness to commit to the run game - and who can blame him when Thomson won't draft decent OL players. Meanwhile, back on the defense, we'll hear all this stuff about exotic Caper's alignments, but the team isn't big enough or tough enough to stop anyone, and we all know that any recent success was just a fluke resulting from down years from other teams. This team will get run roughshod by the Niners, and we'll be calling for Caper's head and be right back to where we started at the end of last year, which is to say with a weak, slow, undersized defense that can't stop the run, cant get to the QB, and can't cover the middle of the field. Keep pretending it's not true, Packer homers, you will be singing a different tune in a few weeks.

I can only but marvel at the beauty of such a well-reasoned and logical argument. Everything flows from self-evident premises toward the irrefutable, yet beautiful, if terrible, conclusion.

[wist43]

I can only but marvel at the beauty of such a well-reasoned and logical argument. Everything flows from self-evident premises toward the irrefutable, yet beautiful, if terrible, conclusion.

And yet, did we not set an NFL record for pass defense futility just 2 years ago?? And did we not allow an NFL record number of rushing yards to Kapnerfucker just 7 months ago??

You homers see what you want to see... Keep drinkin the Kool-aid my friend.

[Bossman641]

I think all you homers are deluding yourselves. It's obvious from last night that the Packers can't stop the run because the organization isn't interested in bringing in linemen who can 2-gap, and Capers will never do anything to effectively stop the run. He'll play 2-4 defenses and give up hundreds of yards, and no matter how efficient Rodgers can play, they will never find a Tackle that can protect him properly. Even though that idiot Thomson thinks bringing a couple of backs will 'solve' the running game problem, McCarthy will just revert back to his stubborn unwillingness to commit to the run game - and who can blame him when Thomson won't draft decent OL players. Meanwhile, back on the defense, we'll hear all this stuff about exotic Caper's alignments, but the team isn't big enough or tough enough to stop anyone, and we all know that any recent success was just a fluke resulting from down years from other teams. This team will get run roughshod by the Niners, and we'll be calling for Caper's head and be right back to where we started at the end of last year, which is to say with a weak, slow, undersized defense that can't stop the run, cant get to the QB, and can't cover the middle of the field. Keep pretending it's not true, Packer homers, you will be singing a different tune in a few weeks.

Well done.

[denverYooper]

And yet, did we not set an NFL record for pass defense futility just 2 years ago?? And did we not allow an NFL record number of rushing yards to Kapnerfucker just 7 months ago??

You homers see what you want to see... Keep drinkin the Kool-aid my friend.

Here's the thing: most around here indulge in a little kool-aid, but they have it as part of an eclectic diet. That diet can often involve things that we enjoy, like a hearty steak and mashed potatoes but also involves brussels sprouts and dose of cod liver oil. You, on the other hand, prefer to dine on the same thing meal after meal -- haggis and stink bugs -- with the only real changes to your menu being the font in which it is written.

[Tony Oday]

Pretty sure the Packers have won the most games the last three years.

Jolly and Mulumba look good against the Rams.

[Joemailman]

Joemailman is merciful and weak. Mercy is a weakness. Shoot all prisoners.

Yeah, I've gone all Pope Francis and shit. Who am I to judge another poster?

[pbmax]

That leaves them with 9 Dbs, which they have done before, but when you start filling names into slots this year, you would like to have 10 DB's too,

Four safeties, although I'm not sure who the fourth would be (Banjo??), so they might only keep three, and plan on picking up a fourth if injuries hit. They will only have three active for games anyway.

Five CBs - Williams, Shields, Hayward, House, Hyde

Unless they go with only 3 safeties, it leaves no place for Bush (many won't mind that) or any of the youngsters like Means or Nixon. Smith is probably destined for PS anyway, maybe with at least one of Means and Nixon.

I think they can get their fourth or fifth best safety on PS easier than Boyd. Not sure what happens with him. Big guys don't last unless they are a project. And Boyd wouldn't be a project in a 4-3 Under at 3 tech.

[wist43]

Here's the thing: most around here indulge in a little kool-aid, but they have it as part of an eclectic diet. That diet can often involve things that we enjoy, like a hearty steak and mashed potatoes but also involves brussels sprouts and dose of cod liver oil. You, on the other hand, prefer to dine on the same thing meal after meal -- haggis and stink bugs -- with the only real changes to your menu being the font in which it is written.

I acknowledge what is working - but what's the point of talking about what's working... you don't need to fix it, do you?? Polish your laurels as it were??

It's like having a faulty carburetor on your car, but all you want to talk about are your spiffy rims. You're simply not going anywhere unless you fix the carburetor.

I've said I like quite a few of our defensive players - but the flaws we have are serious enough that they could be fatal - ala what we've witnessed against power teams over the past few years. Of course those rims still look mighty spiffy though - I'll grant ya that ;)

[Rastak]

Here's the thing: most around here indulge in a little kool-aid, but they have it as part of an eclectic diet. That diet can often involve things that we enjoy, like a hearty steak and mashed potatoes but also involves brussels sprouts and dose of cod liver oil. You, on the other hand, prefer to dine on the same thing meal after meal -- haggis and stink bugs -- with the only real changes to your menu being the font in which it is written.

LOL...Denver.

I think most fans follow the philosophy you mention.

[pbmax]

I think all you homers are deluding yourselves. It's obvious from last night that the Packers can't stop the run because the organization isn't interested in bringing in linemen who can 2-gap, and Capers will never do anything to effectively stop the run. He'll play 2-4 defenses and give up hundreds of yards, and no matter how efficient Rodgers can play, they will never find a Tackle that can protect him properly. Even though that idiot Thomson thinks bringing a couple of backs will 'solve' the running game problem, McCarthy will just revert back to his stubborn unwillingness to commit to the run game - and who can blame him when Thomson won't draft decent OL players. Meanwhile, back on the defense, we'll hear all this stuff about exotic Caper's alignments, but the team isn't big enough or tough enough to stop anyone, and we all know that any recent success was just a fluke resulting from down years from other teams. This team will get run roughshod by the Niners, and we'll be calling for Caper's head and be right back to where we started at the end of last year, which is to say with a weak, slow, undersized defense that can't stop the run, cant get to the QB, and can't cover the middle of the field. Keep pretending it's not true, Packer homers, you will be singing a different tune in a few weeks.

Need to differentiate your product to succeed in the message board troll business? Might I suggest some alternative hobby horses?

1. Small lineman

2. Small lineman now, bigger lineman after HGH, I mean, pro football weightlifting

3. No free agents

4. Thompson too proud to keep Mike Sherman talent

5. McCarthy too proud to run football

6. Its all about egos and when the team is bad, ego is the problem. When the team is good, ego is backed up by results. Some people got it, some don't. Losers don't.

7. Time of Possession

8. 597

9. 3-4 inferior run defense no matter what actual coaches say, just look at the number! 3<4

10. Jerry Reese and Ozzie Newsome never make mistakes like this.


All these and more can be yours for a season-long subscription price of $49.95.

[pbmax]

Holy fuck, there's an actual realist on this board. I thought it was just full of kool-aid chugging homers that refuse to see the truth.

wist has been right every year except the Super Bowl years. His record is impressive.

Total Super Bowls: 51
Packer Super Bowl wins: 4

Percentage of wist prediction success: 92.15%

Clearly, the Packers aren't committed to winning Super Bowls, just making the playoffs is OK for them, Mike Holmgren and Phil Bengston.

[pbmax]

You got one point correct whilst trying to be sarcastic. I will be screaming by week 5 that we only had 9 run plays called in each of the last 3 games. We will lose 2 of those. Pb will tell me that running isn't important and look, we called 26 running plays this week and won afterall, proving that MM calls a lot of running plays.

Running well in the second half is important to hold the lead. Can we agree on that? :lol:

[hoosier]

Maybe they keep Boyd and justify it by counting Neal as a LB. That makes:

DL (7): Raji, Pickett, Wilson, Jones, Daniels, Jolly, Boyd,
LB (10): CMIII, Jones, Hawk, Perry, Neal, Francois, Manning, Lattimore, Mulumba, Moses/Palmer

[pbmax]

Maybe they keep Boyd and justify it by counting Neal as a LB. That makes:

DL (7): Raji, Pickett, Wilson, Jones, Daniels, Jolly, Boyd,
LB (10): CMIII, Jones, Hawk, Perry, Neal, Francois, Manning, Lattimore, Mulumba, Moses/Palmer

OK, so who makes DB?

Williams, Shields, House, Hayward, Hyde, Burnett, Jennings, McMillan

Have to hope they are healthy to get by with this.

[Joemailman]

OK, so who makes DB?

Williams, Shields, House, Hayward, Hyde, Burnett, Jennings, McMillan

Have to hope they are healthy to get by with this.

Add Bush. You can get by with 9 LB's even if one of them is Neal. They finished last season with just 8.

[Joemailman]

Updated roster prediction. Actually, more like what I think the roster would be if today was cutdown day.

QB (2) Rodgers, Harrell

RB (5) Franklin, Starks, Harris, Lacy, Kuhn

OL (8) EDS, Lang, Sitton, Van Roten, Bakhtiari, Newhouse, Barclay, Sherrod

WR (6) Boykin, Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Walker, Ross

TE (4) Finley, Mulligan, Quarless, Bostick

DL (8) Daniels, Jones, Neal, Wilson, Jolly, Pickett, Raji, Boyd

LB (8) Lattimore, Hawk, Jones, Matthews, Moses, Mulumba, Perry, Francois

CB (6) Bush, Hayward, House, Hyde, Shields, Williams

S (3) Burnett, Jennings, McMillian

ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode

[Joemailman]

I think they can get their fourth or fifth best safety on PS easier than Boyd. Not sure what happens with him. Big guys don't last unless they are a project. And Boyd wouldn't be a project in a 4-3 Under at 3 tech.

As Bobble pointed out, Hyde could be the emergency Safety. He has the tackling ability to do it. A lot of people had him projected as a Safety heading into the draft.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As Bobble pointed out, Hyde could be the emergency Safety. He has the tackling ability to do it. A lot of people had him projected as a Safety heading into the draft.

A lot to ask a rookie to play out of position. Baranczyk said that Hyde's position now should be in the slot, like late career Woodson, and I agree. Maybe long term he will be a safety.

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20130818/PKR07/308180309/Eric-Baranczyk-analysis-Shields-adds-savvy-go-his-speed

BTW, I also agree with Baranczyk's remarks about the battle between Newhouse and Barclay. That position is up in the air.
I can see Barclay is a good run blocker. I just don't know about pass blocking, they both have problems. I'm still thinking Newhouse has more upside there, but I could be wrong.

[wist43]

wist has been right every year except the Super Bowl years. His record is impressive.

Total Super Bowls: 51
Packer Super Bowl wins: 4

Percentage of wist prediction success: 92.15%

Clearly, the Packers aren't committed to winning Super Bowls, just making the playoffs is OK for them, Mike Holmgren and Phil Bengston.

Actually, I called the '96 SB... and I was the voice of "we're going to get better now" after they made the Favre trade. I remember all the mocking derision after Wolf traded a 1st round pick for a backup QB that was originally drafted in the 2nd round - nobody listened to me then either, lol...

So My percentage is better than 92.15%... don't have a calculator, and too lazy to either get it, or do the math in my head :)

[Patler]

If he is on the roster, the emergency safety would be Jarrett Bush. He practiced there a couple years and was even listed as a safety for a year, and as a CB/S for another year or so.

[bobblehead]

Yeah, we have a shot every year b/c we have a QB - "a punchers chance".

What makes it luck as opposed to being "the real deal" is defense and OL play. Teams like the Niners and Seahawks may not win it all either, but they're in the conversation b/c of strength, not a "punchers chance".

That's the difference.

Just as someone brought up the Colts - I thought they were a flawed team too... "a punchers chance", and "one and done".

Their OL was similar to ours - underpowered; and their defense was similar to ours - also underpowered. I think our defense has more potential than theirs did, but we have Capers holding us back, so it's probably a wash.

If Sherrod and Bulaga were in the lineup and Iaputi and Davis were out of the lineup, would SF have the superior OL?

[bobblehead]

And yet, did we not set an NFL record for pass defense futility just 2 years ago?? And did we not allow an NFL record number of rushing yards to Kapnerfucker just 7 months ago??

You homers see what you want to see... Keep drinkin the Kool-aid my friend.

For the hundreth time, Kapernick did not overpower us, he outschemed us...a totally soft way to win a ballgame in my opinion.

[bobblehead]

Running well in the second half is important to hold the lead. Can we agree on that? :lol:

Running well in general is important to win games. I think we both agree on that

[mraynrand]

Running well in general is important to win games. I think we both agree on that

scoring more points than the opposition is an even stronger predictor of success.

[pittstang5]

Just some of my opinions on positions:

I really don’t think Boyd makes the final 53. They’ll try to put him on the PS, he may get picked up, but I don’t think there is enough room for him on the 53. He’s a project.

I keep forgetting about Quarless, just because he has always been injured. He better get back on the field or I feel they will just release him or be put on IR if they are willing to wait another year.

I agree with keeping only 3 safeties. One of the guys - I'm thinking Banjo, would be kept on the PS and moved up if need be. As mentioned, Bush could probably come in if desperate. Too bad for Richardson - I really wanted to see what he could do with a season under his belt and didn't realize his injury status until TC started. I don't hink he makes it back this year - IR for him.

[denverYooper]

I acknowledge what is working - but what's the point of talking about what's working... you don't need to fix it, do you?? Polish your laurels as it were??

It's like having a faulty carburetor on your car, but all you want to talk about are your spiffy rims. You're simply not going anywhere unless you fix the carburetor.

I've said I like quite a few of our defensive players - but the flaws we have are serious enough that they could be fatal - ala what we've witnessed against power teams over the past few years. Of course those rims still look mighty spiffy though - I'll grant ya that ;)

If I tried to fix the carburetor on either of our cars I wouldn't get anywhere. They're both FI, as are most all cars since the mid 1980's excluding such gems as the '91 Ford Crown Vic Interceptor. For some reason, it would not surprise me if that was your ride of choice :).

But your analogy here speaks volumes: you want to fix the carburetor on a machine that uses electronic fuel injection.

[hoosier]

OK, so who makes DB?

Williams, Shields, House, Hayward, Hyde, Burnett, Jennings, McMillan

Have to hope they are healthy to get by with this.

I guess I would take those eight and add Bush by subtracting Palmer/Moses.

[SkinBasket]

I guess I would take those eight and add Bush by subtracting Palmer/Moses.

Cutting anyone on this team to keep Bush would be a terrible idea. I would rather we carried 52 than kept Bush, but thankfully that isn't necessary. Plenty of young, cheap talent in the DB crop to keep an almost effective gunner and proven ineffective DB around another year. Also got deep throat depth at DL, options at RB, injuries at WR and OL, and a cornucopia at TE. So why keep an overpriced, aging do-nothing poop stain?

[Fritz]

Yeah, we have a shot every year b/c we have a QB - "a punchers chance".

What makes it luck as opposed to being "the real deal" is defense and OL play. Teams like the Niners and Seahawks may not win it all either, but they're in the conversation b/c of strength, not a "punchers chance".

That's the difference.

Just as someone brought up the Colts - I thought they were a flawed team too... "a punchers chance", and "one and done".

Their OL was similar to ours - underpowered; and their defense was similar to ours - also underpowered. I think our defense has more potential than theirs did, but we have Capers holding us back, so it's probably a wash.


What a moronic, illogical line of...well, it's not thinking, so let's say belief.

If two teams with different styles of play have similar results over time, it does not follow that one was "lucky" and the other "real" because one team had a style you did not like.

We all agree the Packers need to run better. We agree the defense needs to play better. Trying to argue these things won't happen because the team's leadership doesn't care about these things is, well, delusional and self-serving. Though what this serves for you, well, that's your bag.

Calling me a homer because I think the team's leadership is aware of the team's deficiencies and is trying to correct them is incorrect.

[ThunderDan]

Cutting anyone on this team to keep Bush would be a terrible idea. I would rather we carried 52 than kept Bush, but thankfully that isn't necessary. Plenty of young, cheap talent in the DB crop to keep an almost effective gunner and proven ineffective DB around another year. Also got deep throat depth at DL, options at RB, injuries at WR and OL, and a cornucopia at TE. So why keep an overpriced, aging do-nothing poop stain?

Nice post, there is another post where Bigby is mentioned maybe you could tell us what you think about him also!

[wist43]

If I tried to fix the carburetor on either of our cars I wouldn't get anywhere. They're both FI, as are most all cars since the mid 1980's excluding such gems as the '91 Ford Crown Vic Interceptor. For some reason, it would not surprise me if that was your ride of choice :).

But your analogy here speaks volumes: you want to fix the carburetor on a machine that uses electronic fuel injection.

Fuel injection is for pussies!!!

This is more my speed!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID6z3cZWx_E

Check out this '57 Chevy!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmIvNz6-hZM


And you think driving around in a little pussymobile, beeping your little 'beep, beep' horn is a step up??

[Guiness]

Fuel injection is for pussies!!!

This is more my speed!!!

And you think driving around in a little pussymobile, beeping your little 'beep, beep' horn is a step up??

Why is it every time someone brags on the internet about their Detroit Iron muscle, I'm pretty sure this is actually them in real life?

http://www.burnabynow.com/polopoly_fs/1.419425.1374533845!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_563/img-0-5836617-jpg.jpg

[wist43]

What a moronic, illogical line of...well, it's not thinking, so let's say belief.

If two teams with different styles of play have similar results over time, it does not follow that one was "lucky" and the other "real" because one team had a style you did not like.

We all agree the Packers need to run better. We agree the defense needs to play better. Trying to argue these things won't happen because the team's leadership doesn't care about these things is, well, delusional and self-serving. Though what this serves for you, well, that's your bag.

Calling me a homer because I think the team's leadership is aware of the team's deficiencies and is trying to correct them is incorrect.

I don't doubt that TT and MM are trying to improve the defense and running game - up until the debacle of the last 2 years though, it hasn't been much of a priority; and the way they're going about fixing both is backward IMO.

The defensive problems are largely brought on by Capers I would suspect. He's in TT's ear... "I need a guy like this, I need a guy like that - don't need no stinking 2-gappers".

We're going to continue to have problems as long as Capers is our DC.

The running game is on MM. Our running game is exactly what Oakland tried to implement last year - their OC survived 1 year, and was immediately fired. MM gets away with b/c of the QB play and passing game cover it up.

Capers gets away with it b/c the QB and passing game cover up the mess he trots out there every week.

I know you guys want these areas of the team to improve - but you keep buying into the same false doctrine that gave you the mess to begin with - that's blind faith. I like to think for myself, and don't make excuses for failure.

[denverYooper]

You're ok in my book wist. No matter what people say about you.

[Tony Oday]

Will Eddie Lacy going for 1200 yards running and 400 yard recieving this year make you happy Wist?

[Bossman641]

I don't doubt that TT and MM are trying to improve the defense and running game - up until the debacle of the last 2 years though, it hasn't been much of a priority; and the way they're going about fixing both is backward IMO.

The defensive problems are largely brought on by Capers I would suspect. He's in TT's ear... "I need a guy like this, I need a guy like that - don't need no stinking 2-gappers".

We're going to continue to have problems as long as Capers is our DC.

The running game is on MM. Our running game is exactly what Oakland tried to implement last year - their OC survived 1 year, and was immediately fired. MM gets away with b/c of the QB play and passing game cover it up.

Capers gets away with it b/c the QB and passing game cover up the mess he trots out there every week.

I know you guys want these areas of the team to improve - but you keep buying into the same false doctrine that gave you the mess to begin with - that's blind faith. I like to think for myself, and don't make excuses for failure.

Hint - every team runs the ZBS in one way or another

[mraynrand]

Cutting anyone on this team to keep Bush would be a terrible idea. I would rather we carried 52 than kept Bush, but thankfully that isn't necessary. Plenty of young, cheap talent in the DB crop to keep an almost effective gunner and proven ineffective DB around another year. Also got deep throat depth at DL, options at RB, injuries at WR and OL, and a cornucopia at TE. So why keep an overpriced, aging do-nothing poop stain?

because as worthless as he is as a db, he's very effective on teams. Against the Rams, on one punt coverage, he defeated three blocks, including a double team off the snap, got knocked down and still got up and made the tackle. His dominance opens up opportunities for others on teams to make plays as well. He may be a poop stain, but he's a sweet smelling poop stain, with berry seeds within that blossom into a cornucopia of fruity delights.

[wist43]

Will Eddie Lacy going for 1200 yards running and 400 yard recieving this year make you happy Wist?

Yeah it would... but that isn't going to happen ;)

[Tony Oday]

Yeah it would... but that isn't going to happen ;)

Lacey will get 300 carries this season averaging just under 19 carries a game. He will average 4+ yards a carry, and I think 30 receptions.

[wist43]

Lacey will get 300 carries this season averaging just under 19 carries a game. He will average 4+ yards a carry, and I think 30 receptions.

Well, by that math he would get to your numbers... but I don't see that happening for a 3 reasons.

1) Injuries. Lacy hasn't missed time in college, but he's been banged up... and rookies always, or more often than not, hit "the rookie wall". He'll miss some games.

2) Our pathetic run blocking OL

3) McCarthy's spots, i.e. his nature, i.e. he can't wait to fling the rock all over the field with his All-Pro QB. To whatever extent I can't blame him - he's got a great QB, and a strong passing game; he's also got a lousy running game... go with what works.

[wist43]

Hint - every team runs the ZBS in one way or another

Most teams have more than 3 running plays in the play book.

Hint - my wife can run block better than the Packer OL, and she weighs 98 lbs!!!

[Tony Oday]

Most teams have more than 3 running plays in the play book.

Hint - my wife can run block better than the Packer OL, and she weighs 98 lbs!!!

Hint - Buy that girl a cheeseburger! ;) Thats a joke.

I think our Oline will be much better run blocking this year with a competent back in Lacey.

[pbmax]

If he is on the roster, the emergency safety would be Jarrett Bush. He practiced there a couple years and was even listed as a safety for a year, and as a CB/S for another year or so.

In game might not have any choice. But as part of season long plan, not only was that experiment ended, but McCarthy all but apologized to Bush publicly over the move.

Not sure they would try Hyde either, though McCarthy doesn't sweat position switches a much as some. I think the season's backup plan has to be on PS if not 4 safeties on roster.

[pbmax]

Add Bush. You can get by with 9 LB's even if one of them is Neal. They finished last season with just 8.

Wow, yes of course. Apparently I was channeling red.

[pbmax]

Running well in general is important to win games. I think we both agree on that


scoring more points than the opposition is an even stronger predictor of success.

Successfully running the ball can both help you score more and reduce you opposition's chances to score. If opportunities are chosen wisely and team is efficient with those chances.

[Tony Oday]

If we average 18 yards more a game we are a top 10 running offense. Lacey will bring those extra yards.

[pbmax]

But your analogy here speaks volumes: you want to fix the carburetor on a machine that uses electronic fuel injection.

That does help explain his fascination with more Power running plays with mobile lineman.

[pbmax]

Most teams have more than 3 running plays in the play book.

Hint - my wife can run block better than the Packer OL, and she weighs 98 lbs!!!

Its technically 4 in the ZBS, but why quibble when McCarthy also runs the fullback dive and some Power stuff. Its at least 6 running plays in the playbook app.

[denverYooper]

FWIW, McGinn has DJ Williams as being a "capable blocker"

http://m.jsonline.com/packers/#/articles/220142311


Thus, D.J. Williams (23 snaps) was the No. 2 tight end, and the snap counts swelled this game for Brandon Bostick (18 to 33) and Jake Stoneburner (11 to 20).

Weighing merely 236 pounds, Williams has made himself into a capable blocker. Twelve of his snaps came from a conventional three-point stance, and from there he made outstanding blocks at the point of attack against both Quinn and Ogletree on three runs totaling 29 yards.

He also gained 10 yards after the catch on his two receptions for 17 yards, and showed awareness by getting out of bounds late in the final minute of the first half.

On the other hand, Williams got sloppy against Quinn twice on the back side, and also was part of the reason why Quinn wasn't blocked on a failed third and 1.

He also dropped a pin-point vertical throw from Harrell in which he was behind middle linebacker Josh Hull 21 yards downfield.

With Mulligan getting injured, Q coming back, and Williams all over the place, the TE situation behind Finley is clear as mud atm. Until they see what Quarless has, it sounds like Williams might be the top blocking TE on the roster if Mulligan is out.

[wist43]

Its technically 4 in the ZBS, but why quibble when McCarthy also runs the fullback dive and some Power stuff. Its at least 6 running plays in the playbook app.

The FB dive is a tip of the cap to "Dumb and Dumber"... if one of your 6 running plays is the FB dive, then I'm a cheerleader for us having 5 running plays.

I've erased all of the games from last year, but I did got thru a couple of games and counted the power running plays MM called. He called 2 in one game, and 1 in another, i.e. he pulled Sitton twice, and Lang once. Don't remember which games those were.

Not much to hang your hat on there max.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Hint - my wife can run block better than the Packer OL, and she weighs 98 lbs!!!

Damn, she must be great at the State Fair when you gotta get a beer!

"Power Micro-Brew Right"

[Smeefers]

repent, sinner


I think Jolly is still an extremely long shot to make this team. We have 3 first round draft picks for our DL. I like rotational guys, but it's a young mans game and Jolly doesn't have time to be playing catch up. If and only if he can come in at or above the level he was at when he left will he make the team. If he comes in lower, that probably means he's in the decline of his career, that means I want a younger kid who's still getting better.

I stand by what I said. One game does not a preseason make. Yes, he looks good and if he continues to play at this level, then awesome, he's in... just like I said. If he turns into a fat tub of lard who can only stomach 2 snaps ever 15 or if he's not assignment sure or if he doesn't perform well, then he's not making it.

I will admit though, that it's not a long shot any more. With that kind of performance, it's hard to see him wearing anything but the green and gold.

[Guiness]

I stand by what I said. One game does not a preseason make. Yes, he looks good and if he continues to play at this level, then awesome, he's in... just like I said. If he turns into a fat tub of lard who can only stomach 2 snaps ever 15 or if he's not assignment sure or if he doesn't perform well, then he's not making it.

I will admit though, that it's not a long shot any more. With that kind of performance, it's hard to see him wearing anything but the green and gold.

Thing is, Jolly's never had a motivation or dedication problem on the field. I think the main concern was that he would be too far out of shape and his skills had eroded. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I don't see what could hold him back.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't see what could hold him back.

A bad cough could be trouble. Just thinking this through...

[Smeefers]

FWIW, McGinn has DJ Williams as being a "capable blocker"

http://m.jsonline.com/packers/#/articles/220142311



With Mulligan getting injured, Q coming back, and Williams all over the place, the TE situation behind Finley is clear as mud atm. Until they see what Quarless has, it sounds like Williams might be the top blocking TE on the roster if Mulligan is out.

What about that Taylor kid, I hear he can catch anything thrown at him. Bostick looked good last week as well. We draft pick up about 5 new TE's every year. We should have plenty of depth there.

[Smeefers]

Thing is, Jolly's never had a motivation or dedication problem on the field. I think the main concern was that he would be too far out of shape and his skills had eroded. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I don't see what could hold him back.

Agreed. Honestly, I didn't think he had a snowballs chance in hell in making the team. I guessed the guy would play like garbage after being out of the game for so long. Dude has talent.

[pbmax]

I do not understand McGinn on DJ Williams. Williams came into the League with more experience blocking than Taylor and was expected to be better than his size (he played a conventional in-line TE in college). Has he improved OVER that or is he still the same over achieving for his size blocker?

Hard to imagine he is better than Crabtree or Quarless.

[pbmax]

Agreed. Honestly, I didn't think he had a snowballs chance in hell in making the team. I guessed the guy would play like garbage after being out of the game for so long. Dude has talent.

Part of the impressive part is that he has been getting better, seemingly, as he gets more reps meaning he is perhaps rounding into shape or remembering all his techniques. Or both. He wasn't a standout early in camp.

Had he come in and tossed a few camp bodies around early plus a pass knockdown or two, I would be more skeptical.

He really does still seem to have something. If he is doing it in preseason game 4, I'll be convinced, whether he is on the Packer roster or not.

[Bossman641]

I do not understand McGinn on DJ Williams. Williams came into the League with more experience blocking than Taylor and was expected to be better than his size (he played a conventional in-line TE in college). Has he improved OVER that or is he still the same over achieving for his size blocker?

Hard to imagine he is better than Crabtree or Quarless.

I thought Williams was more of an H-back at Arkansas? Wasn't his scouting report that he was a receiving TE who didn't have the size to be a traditional TE? That's why it's been so surprising to see him struggle catching the ball.

[Joemailman]

I thought Williams was more of an H-back at Arkansas? Wasn't his scouting report that he was a receiving TE who didn't have the size to be a traditional TE? That's why it's been so surprising to see him struggle catching the ball.

I thought he played TE at Arkansas, but was projected as an H-back in the NFL due to lack of height. His pass catching ability, or lack thereof, has been a huge disappointment.

[call_me_ishmael]

Who are the studs of the summer so far?

Sounds like Bahktiari is a very pleasant surprise and will be a decent LT.

Has Nick Perry done much? Man, he has the perfect combination of size and athletic ability (combine). If he ever puts it together... watch out.

Sounds like Finley is having a summer like he did in '09 - where he was a true difference maker.

Sounds like Micah Hyde is always around the ball.

Who else? I haven't been following too much.

[Pugger]

Who are the studs of the summer so far?

Sounds like Bahktiari is a very pleasant surprise and will be a decent LT.

Has Nick Perry done much? Man, he has the perfect combination of size and athletic ability (combine). If he ever puts it together... watch out.

Sounds like Finley is having a summer like he did in '09 - where he was a true difference maker.

Sounds like Micah Hyde is always around the ball.

Who else? I haven't been following too much.

There is a buzz all over the Packer message boards about Lacy and what he can bring to this offense this season.

[pbmax]

I thought Williams was more of an H-back at Arkansas? Wasn't his scouting report that he was a receiving TE who didn't have the size to be a traditional TE? That's why it's been so surprising to see him struggle catching the ball.

He was viewed as too small by many scouts, but he received praise for being a willing blocker. And he had experience carrying out that duty in college. He also got notice in his first camp that he was ahead of most other TEs, esp, Taylor, in that department.

Its just not clear if Bob is simply repeating himself for those who don't remember or if he has continued to get better.

[SkinBasket]

because as worthless as he is as a db, he's very effective on teams. Against the Rams, on one punt coverage, he defeated three blocks, including a double team off the snap, got knocked down and still got up and made the tackle. His dominance opens up opportunities for others on teams to make plays as well. He may be a poop stain, but he's a sweet smelling poop stain, with berry seeds within that blossom into a cornucopia of fruity delights.

This is the same logic that had so many Bibgy boners ramming into the walls of this forum a couple years back. Those morons forgave Bigby's glaring weaknesses and general ineptitude for years based on less than a handful of "BIG HITZZZZZZ!!!" most of which came in preseason games. Likewise, for the last several seasons, Bush will accomplish... something on ST once every couple or six or eight weeks, and he's the best goddamn gunner in the motherhumping league despite the fact that a majority of his time is spent on the ground and overrunning returners. Which is great if the guy decides to turn around and run the wrong direction. Bush will be right there after 10 yards to make sure he has to turn around and go the right way.

There's simply far too much young talent on this team to keep Bush and his pluses, which he brings sporadically, any longer. Investing in our future is our future. Hope and change. No more Bush!

[SkinBasket]

Who else? I haven't been following too much.

Vince. Young.

Superbowl.

[mraynrand]

This is the same logic that had so many Bibgy boners ramming into the walls of this forum a couple years back. Those morons forgave Bigby's glaring weaknesses and general ineptitude for years based on less than a handful of "BIG HITZZZZZZ!!!" most of which came in preseason games. Likewise, for the last several seasons, Bush will accomplish... something on ST once every couple or six or eight weeks, and he's the best goddamn gunner in the motherhumping league despite the fact that a majority of his time is spent on the ground and overrunning returners. Which is great if the guy decides to turn around and run the wrong direction. Bush will be right there after 10 yards to make sure he has to turn around and go the right way.

There's simply far too much young talent on this team to keep Bush and his pluses, which he brings sporadically, any longer. Investing in our future is our future. Hope and change. No more Bush!

the remarkable thing is that Packer coaches keep getting fooled year after year after year. It only took them a couple of years to realize Bigby's limitations. Somehow, with some kind of mystical chicanery, Bush manages to convince them he can play special teams.

[Guiness]

This is the same logic that had so many Bibgy boners ramming into the walls of this forum a couple years back. Those morons forgave Bigby's glaring weaknesses and general ineptitude for years based on less than a handful of "BIG HITZZZZZZ!!!" most of which came in preseason games. Likewise, for the last several seasons, Bush will accomplish... something on ST once every couple or six or eight weeks, and he's the best goddamn gunner in the motherhumping league despite the fact that a majority of his time is spent on the ground and overrunning returners. Which is great if the guy decides to turn around and run the wrong direction. Bush will be right there after 10 yards to make sure he has to turn around and go the right way.

There's simply far too much young talent on this team to keep Bush and his pluses, which he brings sporadically, any longer. Investing in our future is our future. Hope and change. No more Bush!

I can only assume you're being facetious.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-XvKa3eI6E

[mraynrand]

^^^^^ WTF?

[QBME]

A bad cough could be trouble. Just thinking this through...

LOL...I love dark humor.

[Bossman641]

^^^^^ WTF?

Seconded.....I think I just reached the end of the internet

[run pMc]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-camp-report-monday-at-a-glance-b9979106z1-220297691.html

Graham Harrell is still the frontrunner for the backup QB job. I think they keep 2 QB on the 53 -- Young gets cut, Coleman goes on the PS.

"In practice, Mulumba and Neal represented the No. 2 outside linebackers behind Clay Matthews and Nick Perry. Moses was with the third team."
I think Moses and Palmer get cut, with Palmer a PS candidate.

"M.D. Jennings continues to line up ahead of Jerron McMillian at safety opposite Morgan Burnett".

"The order in which the RBs got reps were: Harris, Eddie Lacy, Johnathan Franklin, Alex Green and James Starks. Harris and Lacy got most of the reps with the No. 1 offense."
Lacy and Franklin are locks this year because of draft status; Harris, Green and Starks are fighting for one or two spots, and I expect this competition will go down to the last game.

[wist43]

I can only assume you're being facetious.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-XvKa3eI6E

Well, I have to admit... I got big LOL out of that :alc:

[SkinBasket]

the remarkable thing is that Packer coaches keep getting fooled year after year after year. It only took them a couple of years to realize Bigby's limitations. Somehow, with some kind of mystical chicanery, Bush manages to convince them he can play special teams.

That's actually an argument that resonates with me, since I trust this organization to know more about this than I do. However, they are still human and humans make mistakes. Mistakes like Hunter, Dendy, Bigby, that white linebacker with a great motor, and a couple of others I'm sure I'm forgetting. For some reason, these players far outstayed their welcome and their limited usefulness. Maybe they continued to offer some glimmer of brilliant promise in practice or maybe they're just great at giving a blow job and bring a real passion to the team, but sometimes a turd is just a turd.

Practical case in point: Harlan's still around. He's our own intellectual Jarrett Bush, Patrick Dendy, and Atari Bigby all rolled into one large white wrapper with a dash of Mark Roman for spice. But he continues to tease us with his effort, and sometimes it's just too hard to say goodbye.

[hoosier]

Seconded.....I think I just reached the end of the internet

Not unless you clicked on the Jermichael Finley version!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Practical case in point: Harlan's still around. He's our own intellectual Jarrett Bush, Patrick Dendy, and Atari Bigby all rolled into one large white wrapper with a dash of Mark Roman for spice. But he continues to tease us with his effort, and sometimes it's just too hard to say goodbye.

Us? Is that a possum in your pocket or are you just ... well, I know you are happy to see me.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My stab at the 53 after the Rams game:

QB (2) - Aaron Rodgers, Vince Young
RB (5) - Eddie Lacy, John Kuhn, DuJuan Harris, Alex Green, Jonathan Franklin
WR (5) - Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Jarrett Boykin, Jeremy Ross
TE (4) - Jermichael Finley, Matthew Mulligan, Ryan Taylor, Andrew Quarless
OL (8) - David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton, Evan Dietrich-Smith, T.J. Lang, Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse, Greg Van Roten, Lane Taylor
DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Johnny Jolly, Josh Boyd
LB (10) - Clay Matthews, A.J. Hawk, Brad Jones, Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Robert Francois, Andy Mulumba, Sam Barrington, Jamari Lattimore, Terrell Manning
DB (9) - Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde, Davon House, Jarrett Bush, Morgan Burnett, M.D. Jennings, Jerron McMillian
ST (3) - Mason Crosby, Tim Masthay, Brett Goode

PUP - Sherrod, Tretter, Worthy

I think these guys are in the most need of a solid finish to the preseason to solidify their spots, with the most likely replacement in parens:

QB - Vince Young (Graham Harrell)
RB - Alex Green (James Starks)
WR - Jeremy Ross (I think he needs to have a big return or will Hyde will take PR and one of the young WRs will take his receiver spot)
TE - Andrew Quarless (Brandon Bostick/D.J. Williams)
LB - Andy Mulumba/Jamari Lattimore/Terrell Manning (Dezman Moses)
K - Mason Crosby (Giorgio Tavecchio)

[Pugger]

Tretter is already on IR if I'm not mistaken. I suspect Sherrod and Worthy will end up on the PUP list.

[QBME]

Tretter is already on IR if I'm not mistaken. I suspect Sherrod and Worthy will end up on the PUP list.

I don't think anybody is on IR just yet. All teams have until August 31 to figure out who goes on IR, IR Designated to Return, also who will stay on PUP, etc.

[pittstang5]

Sherrod will probably stay on PUP. I think his window has closed for being on the roster for week 1. IMO, he would've had to come off early this week in order to get some practice and playing time to knock the rust off. Give him the six weeks and the additional three weeks of practice, then if he's still not ready, IR him...again.

Tretter may stay on PUP for the start of the season, but I'm really starting to think they IR him. He could probably be healthy after the six weeks, but he's a rookie - are they really going to release someone to make room for a rookie that has done nothing.

Worthy might be IRed if there's no chance of him coming back this year. I have no idea where he is with his rehab. His injury was pretty late in the season if IIRC, so he may need the entire season to heal.

[denverYooper]

Spoon runs down the TE sitch (Finley and who knows who else):
www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/at-tight-end-packers-have-jermichael-finley--and-who-knows-who-else-b9979909z1-220450551.html

Ryan Taylor is a "good bet":

Finley is a lock to make the team and Ryan Taylor is a good bet, too, because he is such a good special teams player.

He makes it sound like DJ Williams is pretty close to getting a spot as an underwhelming #2 TE.

For instance, D.J. Williams, a fifth-round pick in 2011, has become a capable blocker, very good special teams player and can as easily line up in the backfield as a fullback, as he can in the slot as a receiver or on the line as a traditional tight end.

"As a blocker, he actually did quite well this past Saturday against St. Louis," Fontenot said. "Unfortunately, he had some opportunities in the pass game he didn't cash in on. D.J. has improved overall. The big focus with D.J. is making the transition from practice to the games. He's really good in practice. We need to get that in games."

I had a lot of hope for Williams but then felt he'd get cut this year because he's been so disappointing in the pass game. Reading about his all-around utility, though, makes me think he'll probably get at least one more year.

Also (paraphrasing FTA):
Quarless and Mulligan are unknowns due to injury.
Bostick and Stoneburner haven't shown much.

This should be an interesting battle down the stretch here.

[Fritz]

I will be curious to hear about how severe Mulligan's injury is.

I also wonder how quickly Quarless can get up to speed. He's running out of time.

[pbmax]

I will be curious to hear about how severe Mulligan's injury is.

I also wonder how quickly Quarless can get up to speed. He's running out of time.

One of Quarless or Mulligan is essential I think.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I was going to take a shot at picking the final roster but couldn't get by the OL. What a mess. Maybe we could convert one or two of the wide bodies on the DL to OL. Could CJ Wilson or Josh Boyd play OT? Seriously, MM IS into cross-training...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nelson, Cobb, Mulligan, and Mulumba back at practice today. The last two needed to get healthy to fight their way onto the squad.

[packer4life]

I'm concerned about Tramon and Hayward. I get this awful feeling that we won't see either of these two until well after the 9ers game. Earlier, the WR injuries to the 9ers tipped the scales to us IMO. Now, without these two it looks we lost that distinct advantage.

[Joemailman]

I was going to take a shot at picking the final roster but couldn't get by the OL. What a mess. Maybe we could convert one or two of the wide bodies on the DL to OL. Could CJ Wilson or Josh Boyd play OT? Seriously, MM IS into cross-training...

Looks like the Packers are 6-deep on the OL before you really have a downgrade. Anyone Thursday night who shows he can execute a shotgun snap consistently probably wraps up a roster spot.

[RashanGary]

I thought that Taylor was playing pretty well. Haven't paid too close attn, but a scout or personnel guy in quoted in McGinn's article said he was a tough guy, had a good anchor, all that. . . . . I still have this little hope for Datko too.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Looks like the Packers are 6-deep on the OL before you really have a downgrade.

I think they can start Newhouse ahead of Barclay and have an upgrade. (or not, we'll probably see, the tackles rarely make it through the season without missing some time.)

[HarveyWallbangers]

My stab at the 53 after the Seahawks game:

QB (2) - Aaron Rodgers, Vince Young
RB (4) - Eddie Lacy, Alex Green, James Starks, Jonathan Franklin
FB (1) - John Kuhn
WR (5) - Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Jarrett Boykin, Jeremy Ross
TE (4) - Jermichael Finley, Andrew Quarless, Matthew Mulligan, Ryan Taylor
OL (8) - David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton, Evan Dietrich-Smith, T.J. Lang, Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse, Greg Van Roten, Lane Taylor
DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Johnny Jolly, Josh Boyd
OLB (4) - Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Andy Mulumba
LB (5) - Brad Jones, A.J. Hawk, Robert Francois, Sam Barrington, Terrell Manning
CB (6) - Sam Shields, Tramon Williams, Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde, Davon House, Jarrett Bush
S (4) - Morgan Burnett, M.D. Jennings, Jerron McMilliam, Chris Banjo
ST (3) - Mason Crosby, Tim Masthay, Brett Goode

IR - Bulaga, Harris
PUP - Sherrod, Tretter, Worthy

I think these guys are in need of a solid final preseason game to solidify their spots, with the most likely replacement in parens:

WR - Jeremy Ross (Tyrone Walker)
TE - Ryan Taylor (D.J. Williams or Brandon Bostick)
OG - Lane Taylor (FA from another team)
DL - Josh Boyd
OLB - Andy Mulumba (Dezman Moses or Nate Palmer)
ILB - Sam Barrington and Terrell Manning (Jamari Lattimore)
S - Chris Banjo
K - Mason Crosby

[mraynrand]

OLB - Andy Mulumba (Dezman Moses or Nate Palmer)

Palmer could get that spot

[pittstang5]

DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Johnny Jolly, Josh Boyd
OLB (4) - Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Andy Mulumba

I don't think Josh Boyd makes the 53. I think they try to stash him on the PS. If that goes, I think they keep another OLB - Palmer or Moses.

[Patler]

I don't think anybody is on IR just yet. All teams have until August 31 to figure out who goes on IR, IR Designated to Return, also who will stay on PUP, etc.

IR Designated to Return requires the injury to have occurred during the season. The player has to come from the 53 man roster. At least, those were the rules last year,

[HarveyWallbangers]

DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Johnny Jolly, Josh Boyd
OLB (4) - Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Andy Mulumba

I don't think Josh Boyd makes the 53. I think they try to stash him on the PS. If that goes, I think they keep another OLB - Palmer or Moses.

That definitely could happen. My thought was that TT looks at Raji, Pickett, Wilson, and Jolly being FAs after the season and keeps Boyd for the future. It depends on whether Boyd has shown that he's worth developing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Miller is better than Boyd.

[KYPack]

IR Designated to Return requires the injury to have occurred during the season. The player has to come from the 53 man roster. At least, those were the rules last year,

Don't think so, P.

Last year in our 3rd Pre-season game, Bengals Center Kyle Cook sustained the dreaded "high ankle sprain". To start the season he went on IR designated to return. In the 9th week he was added to the Bengal roster and started at C.

To make room for Cook, the Bengals had to cut one time starting WR Armon Binns who was picked up by Joe Philbin and Miami.

[Patler]

Don't think so, P.

Last year in our 3rd Pre-season game, Bengals Center Kyle Cook sustained the dreaded "high ankle sprain". To start the season he went on IR designated to return. In the 9th week he was added to the Bengal roster and started at C.

To make room for Cook, the Bengals had to cut one time starting WR Armon Binns who was picked up by Joe Philbin and Miami.

The injury can be preseason, but at final cutdown he has to first be placed on the 53 man roster. He can not be placed on IR as part of the final cutdown. It is only for in season IR, so after the 53 are finalized he is IR'd and another player signed. But, of course, the 54th guy who will take his place would have been subject to waiver rules.

For 2012:


Only players with a “major injury” who are placed on the IR list after 4 p.m. EST on Tuesday, September 4, 2012, or during the season are eligible to be reactivated later in the season.

Rosters had to be finalized to 53 on 9/2.

[pbmax]

Don't think so, P.

Last year in our 3rd Pre-season game, Bengals Center Kyle Cook sustained the dreaded "high ankle sprain". To start the season he went on IR designated to return. In the 9th week he was added to the Bengal roster and started at C.

To make room for Cook, the Bengals had to cut one time starting WR Armon Binns who was picked up by Joe Philbin and Miami.


The injury can be preseason, but at final cutdown he has to first be placed on the 53 man roster. He can not be placed on IR as part of the final cutdown. It is only for in season IR, so after the 53 are finalized he is IR'd and another player signed. But, of course, the 54th guy who will take his place would have been subject to waiver rules.

For 2012:



Rosters had to be finalized to 53 on 9/2.

I think Patler has this right. There was debate about whether Harris could be designated to return now and the beat writers all went back to their stories for Bishop last year.

Designated to return can only be used for a player on the regular season 53 man roster. So Harris could have been carried through preseason cuts and onto the final 53 roster. Then, he could be designated to return. By IR'ing him now, its season ending which must be a WHALE of a patellar tendon injury.

Or it could be an actual example of the team refusing to be hopeful about injuries and committing rosters spaces only to those who are completely healthy (e.g. Bishop and Smith).

[Patler]

Rules are similar for this year.

For 2013, key dates:

Aug. 31 Clubs must reduce rosters to a maximum of 53 players on the Active/Inactive List (6 p.m. ET)
Simultaneously with the cut-down to 53, clubs that have players in the categories of Active/Physically Unable to Perform or Active/Non-Football Injury or Illness must select one of the following options: place player on Reserve/Physically Unable to Perform or Reserve/Non-Football Injury or Illness, whichever is applicable; request waivers; terminate contract; trade contract; or continue to count the player on the Active List

Sept. 1 Claiming period for players placed on waivers at the final roster reduction will expire (12 p.m. ET)
Clubs may establish a Practice Squad of eight players by signing free agents who do not have an Accrued Season of free agency credit or who were on the 46-player Active List for less than nine regular season games during each of any Accrued Seasons. A player cannot serve on the Practice Squad for more than three seasons (12 p.m. ET)
Final day of preseason training camp for all clubs, as defined in CBA Article 23, Section 9

Sept. 3 After 4 p.m. ET, a club is permitted to place a player on Reserve/Injured as "Designated for Return."

Sept. 4 Deadline for all NFL Player Contracts, Practice Player Contracts, tender offers, and miscellaneous amounts to fit within each Club's 2013 Salary Cap, in anticipation of the midnight expiration of the Top 51 Rule (4 p.m. ET)

Sept. 5 Top 51 Rule expires for all NFL Clubs (12 a.m. ET)

[RashanGary]

Is now the time you start to consider letting go of Pickett? He's clearly got another year in the tank. He's making a lot of money and there is a ton of depth on the DL. . . .

It wouldn't shock me. I'm never able to pick the roster exactly how TT does, so I try to keep most things open to possibility.

[mraynrand]

Is now the time you start to consider letting go of Pickett? He's clearly got another year in the tank. He's making a lot of money and there is a ton of depth on the DL. . . .

It wouldn't shock me. I'm never able to pick the roster exactly how TT does, so I try to keep most things open to possibility.

Pickett is the only guy who can 2-gap. I think if they get rid of him, Wist will infarct.

[RashanGary]

Pickett is the only guy who can 2-gap. I think if they get rid of him, Wist will infarct.

You're right. KY talked about that once. . . . Raji is getting better with his hand-fighting and anchor. I think he might be able to do that this year too. But yeah, I forgot about that, we could really use Pick.

[Patler]

Is now the time you start to consider letting go of Pickett? He's clearly got another year in the tank. He's making a lot of money and there is a ton of depth on the DL. . . .

It wouldn't shock me. I'm never able to pick the roster exactly how TT does, so I try to keep most things open to possibility.

I think Ryan Pickett is the Chad Clifton of the D-line. The will keep him around until he simply can no longer play.

[Bossman641]

As usual, I think Patler has this right. Harris would have had to been carried onto the 53 man roster and then placed on IR and designated for return.

Last year was a little different. The NFL and NFLPA came to the agreement in late August, just before the regular season was to begin. Teams were allowed to move one player who had already been placed on IR during preseason to the 53 man roster and then designate that player for return and IR him.

[bobblehead]

Pickett is the only guy who can 2-gap. I think if they get rid of him, Wist will infarct.

Awesome....I had to look it up.

[Fritz]

I think Boyd will be the one to head to the PS. Miller...interesting case. Several of you rats said that man can play a little. I'd like to see them carry an extra D-lineman and rotate more. And maybe...maybe....throw in a couple of 4-down-lineman sets once in a while, just to confuse defenses and lift Wist's weary soul.

[RashanGary]

Miller is better than Boyd.

Since you've been back, honestly, man, I find your opinions on players to be as valuable as anyone's. You're going to be wrong from time to time. TT is. MM is. Everyone is. But you have independent analysis on players based on the games and I think it's rock solid.

[RashanGary]

I only watched the last game. The first two I missed. I was impressed with Banjo. Made at least one awesome open field tackle. He's very athletic and tackles with confidence. People know I'm a big fan of Nick Collins. He was a special player. Not just his int's and disruption, but his ability to make tackles he wasn't supposed to be able to make. That cleans up a lot of big plays. Banjo is the first Packer since Collins that I see tackle in the open field with the confidence and assertiveness of Collins. He flashed to me. I don't really mind a shorter free safety. FS don't match up with TE's anyway. They cover the middle of the field. It's more about covering ground, being assignment sure, having a nose for the ball and being able to make open field tackles. I don't know if Banjo can do much of that, but I'm pretty sure he's a hell of a tackler. I hope he shows more this week.

[Harlan Huckleby]

You're going to be wrong from time to time.

You are very generous.

This preseason I've had buy recommendations for Marshmallow Newhouse, Jordan Miller, Alex Green and Vince Young. All underrated value picks with upside.
Am selling short Tyrone Walker (limited athlete), Johnnathan Franklin (unneeded and modest skills) and Skinbasket (persistent douche-baggery.)

I'm not down on Barclay, but never caught Barclay Fever.

So far my calls look pretty good, but maybe Walker will make me look bad, or Skinbasket will find Jesus.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Harlan, I've had exactly the opposite experience. All my calls have been bad. I predicted that Alex Gillett would be our backup QB.

My latest call? I'd convert Josh Boyd into an OT.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My latest call? I'd convert Josh Boyd into an OT.

Or, he does have the size you are looking for in a 2nd RB.

[Brandon494]

Is now the time you start to consider letting go of Pickett? He's clearly got another year in the tank. He's making a lot of money and there is a ton of depth on the DL. . . .

It wouldn't shock me. I'm never able to pick the roster exactly how TT does, so I try to keep most things open to possibility.

Guarantee that won't happen. TT doesn't let guys go because of salary, he lets them go because they can't stay healthy. BTW Pickett was our best D-lineman last season.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Or, he does have the size you are looking for in a 2nd RB.

He'd sure be a change of pace.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I didn't see the game. Based on info I've read so far, my final projections are:

QB (2) - Aaron Rodgers, Vince Young
RB (4) - Eddie Lacy, Alex Green, James Starks, Jonathan Franklin
FB (1) - John Kuhn
WR (5) - Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Jarrett Boykin, Jeremy Ross
TE (4) - Jermichael Finley, Matthew Mulligan, Ryan Taylor, Brandon Bostick
OL (8) - David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton, Evan Dietrich-Smith, T.J. Lang, Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse, Greg Van Roten, Lane Taylor
DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Mike Neal, Johnny Jolly
OLB (4) - Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Andy Mulumba, Nate Palmer
LB (5) - Brad Jones, A.J. Hawk, Robert Francois, Sam Barrington, Jamari Lattimore
CB (6) - Sam Shields, Tramon Williams, Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde, Davon House, Jarrett Bush
S (4) - Morgan Burnett, M.D. Jennings, Jerron McMilliam, Chris Banjo
ST (3) - Mason Crosby, Tim Masthay, Brett Goode

IR - Bulaga, Harris
PUP - Sherrod, Tretter, Worthy

But for those that saw the game, how did Bostick looked compared to Quarless and Williams? How did Josh Boyd and Chris Banjo look? I've read that Barrington and Lattimore outplayed Manning. Is that the way others saw it?

A few switches from last week based on info I've read from the game: 1) Bostick shows more potential than Quarless at this point, 2) Palmer, Lattimore, and Barrington looked good (better than Manning and Moses).

[RashanGary]

i like banjo and barrington. i like that new wr, walker over ross. Jordan miller is prolly going to make this team.

[pbmax]

Bostick just looks the part, he's an obvious mismatch you can see from the TV screen. He played a ton split wide. But he caught one ball I remember for good yardage. But not much blocking and he did hid damage to second team.

DJ Williams caught a WR screen and it went for a yard because he couldn't shake the CB.

Banjo was everywhere and on special teams covers. But all against second units when he was on D. Despite size he seems to be a LOS safety.

Brandon Smith is as raw as an egg in your grocer's freezer.

Saw nothing of Quarless but I was on radio only for most of 1st QTR. Taylor had real nice over the shoulder catch for 20+.

Boyd did nothing and Miller once again outplayed him but like Banjo, all his best plays were against the 2s and were largely in pursuit. Not sure he is ready to 2 gap. Miller might give some pass rush.

The backup linebackers had some trouble. Palmer and Savage were getting torched on off tackle runs versus the 2 and 3 KC O line.

Read than Francois had a couple nice plays early subbing for Jones. But he and Lattimore had some trouble filling in correct gaps in run defense.

Starks and Franklin run a little bit alike. Give then some space and they will burn you. Starks with acceleration, Franklin with a cut or shake. Green looks like a pounder right now but always gets positive yards.

Datko had a bad game as did Young. Coleman wasn't any better. Van Roten snapped well and played a lot more at Center than Lewis but Lewis got a lot of time at Guard.

Barrington has a nose for the ball and would be a tackling machine but like Jones last year, did not react fast and was mostly catching players to stop them. To his credit, they usually stayed stopped. Barrington was noticeably bad on punt coverage as he kept getting pinned around the numbers by two blockers and the return went wide for big gains. KC found a problem with the Packers coverage by 2nd half.

[OS PA]

i like banjo and barrington. i like that new wr, walker over ross. Jordan miller is prolly going to make this team.

I think Jordan Miller is going to make the team over Jolly, which is sad. Unless they don't keep Banjo.
Any word on Banjo's injury? If it's going to keep him out some time, I could see them IR'ing him so he can develop for next year.
I'd like to see us play Micah Hyde at safety.
We keep Quarless over Bostick. I think the competition is actually between Bostick and Ryan Taylor.
I think only 2 of the 3 make it out of Sam Barrington, Nate Palmer, and Andy Mulamba.
I don't think they give up on Manning this early.
I think it's 50/50 on Walker and Ross. Ross had a hell of a reception today, and offers a lot more on special teams than Walker, which is what you're looking for in your 5th receiver.

[pbmax]

Banjo came back and played.

Walker had a tough time, as Young and Coleman weren't exactly accurate when they threw to him. Young seemed to favor Ross for a while.

[Harlan Huckleby]

DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Mike Neal, Johnny Jolly
OLB (4) - Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Andy Mulumba, Nate Palmer
LB (5) - Brad Jones, A.J. Hawk, Robert Francois, Sam Barrington, Jamari Lattimore


The front 7 is the interesting area. Seems like there is much agreement that it will be 16 total, give or take a player. Mike Vandermause matches your predictions exactly after the game.

I find it hard to believe that Sam Barrington, Jamari Lattimore and Nate Palmer are all more valuable than Jordan Miller. Linebackers are easier to find than defensive linemen.

For balance purposes, can Neal by counted as half a linebacker and half a DE?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Jordan Miller is going to make the team over Jolly, which is sad.

not that sad for Jolly if he gets cut, he'll be on a roster, IMO.

[Harlan Huckleby]

i like banjo and barrington. i like that new wr, walker over ross. Jordan miller is prolly going to make this team.

I think Ross made the team. But I can see them keeping Walker and going with 7 offensive linemen. In fact, I'll go on a limb and say only 6 on the current roster will be on the 53 for San Fran game, with the 7th being a new acquisition.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Ross made the team. But I can see them keeping Walker and going with 7 offensive linemen. In fact, I'll go on a limb and say only 6 on the current roster will be on the 53 for San Fran game, with the 7th being a new acquisition.

I think you are right. Maybe not 6, but 7. Somebody will make the roster, but get cut when an OL from another team is signed. Maybe Walker. Maybe Miller or Boyd.

[Brandon494]

My guess...

QB (2) - Aaron Rodgers, Vince Young
RB (5) - Eddie Lacy, John Kuhn, Alex Green, James Starks, Jonathan Franklin
WR (5) - Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Jarrett Boykin, Tyrone Walker
TE (4) - Jermichael Finley, Matthew Mulligan, Ryan Taylor, Brandon Bostick
OL (8) - David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton, Evan Dietrich-Smith, T.J. Lang, Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse, Greg Van Roten, Lane Taylor
DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal
OLB (4) - Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Andy Mulumba, Nate Palmer
LB (5) - Brad Jones, A.J. Hawk, Robert Francois, Jamari Lattimore, Sam Barrington
CB (6) - Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde, Davon House, Jarrett Bush
S (4) - Morgan Burnett, M.D. Jennings, Jerron McMilliam, Chris Banjo
ST (3) - Mason Crosby, Tim Masthay, Brett Goode

[denverYooper]

I think Jordan Miller is going to make the team over Jolly, which is sad. Unless they don't keep Banjo.
Any word on Banjo's injury? If it's going to keep him out some time, I could see them IR'ing him so he can develop for next year.
I'd like to see us play Micah Hyde at safety.
We keep Quarless over Bostick. I think the competition is actually between Bostick and Ryan Taylor.
I think only 2 of the 3 make it out of Sam Barrington, Nate Palmer, and Andy Mulamba.
I don't think they give up on Manning this early.
I think it's 50/50 on Walker and Ross. Ross had a hell of a reception today, and offers a lot more on special teams than Walker, which is what you're looking for in your 5th receiver.

I think you're right on Taylor v Bostick. They played a lot more snaps than any other TEs last night. In the 4th preseason game, that usually means they're competing for a job.

Banjo returned.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Bottom-line as I see it: Our OL is our weakest link and our backup QB position is right there with it. That's a dangerous combination. I hope it's not another season of Rodgers running for his life every pass play.

We've gotten better at every other position on both offense and defense, except maybe WR.

Now it's a matter of health.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It looks like Brady Quinn is going to be cut by Seattle. Does anyone else feel Quinn would be a better bet than Young, even at this late date?

[Joemailman]

It looks like Brady Quinn is going to be cut by Seattle. Does anyone else feel Quinn would be a better bet than Young, even at this late date?

No. Quinn has never been a decent QB. Young at least has the potential to improve with more knowledge of the offense.

[ThunderDan]

Jarrett Bush made the team last night when everyone new showed they couldn't play gunner. KC gashed us on punt return.
I don't know that Ross is as safe as some people think. Micah Hyde did a good job fielding punts which may have opened a spot for one of the other WRs. But the WRs who would take his spot have to play ST and they all sucked. Maybe Ross is safer than I think.

[Maxie the Taxi]

No. Quinn has never been a decent QB. Young at least has the potential to improve with more knowledge of the offense.

I don't know. Young sure makes me nervous, especially in the realm of ball security...both interceptions and fumbles. My feeling is that a backup QB doesn't need to make big plays every down, just keep you in the game by avoiding turnovers. I haven't checked Quinn's stats, but I know Young turns it over a lot.

[mraynrand]

Jarrett Bush made the team last night when everyone new showed they couldn't play gunner. KC gashed us on punt return.
I don't know that Ross is as safe as some people think. Micah Hyde did a good job fielding punts which may have opened a spot for one of the other WRs. But the WRs who would take his spot have to play ST and they all sucked. Maybe Ross is safer than I think.

round and round she goes, where she stops, td doesn't know!

[Joemailman]

I don't know. Young sure makes me nervous, especially in the realm of ball security...both interceptions and fumbles. My feeling is that a backup QB doesn't need to make big plays every down, just keep you in the game by avoiding turnovers. I haven't checked Quinn's stats, but I know Young turns it over a lot.

Both are prone to turnovers. Young at least has the ability to run for a first down when things breakdown in the passing game. Young is something like 31-17 as a starter. Quinn is 4-16. Now it's true that the Tennessee teams that Young played for were better than the teams Quinn played for, but Quinn is simply not a winner.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The solution is to pray Rodgers never goes down. :-|

[Joemailman]

QB (2) - Aaron Rodgers, Vince Young
RB (5) - Eddie Lacy, John Kuhn, Alex Green, James Starks, Jonathan Franklin
WR (5) - Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Jarrett Boykin, Jeremy Ross
TE (5) - Jermichael Finley, Matthew Mulligan, Ryan Taylor, Brandon Bostick, Andrew Quarless
OL (7) - David Bakhtiari, Josh Sitton, Evan Dietrich-Smith, T.J. Lang, Don Barclay, Marshall Newhouse, Greg Van Roten,
DL (7) - B.J. Raji, Ryan Pickett, Datone Jones, C.J. Wilson, Mike Daniels, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal
OLB (4) - Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Andy Mulumba, Nate Palmer
LB (5) - Brad Jones, A.J. Hawk, Robert Francois, Jamari Lattimore, Sam Barrington
CB (6) - Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde, Davon House, Jarrett Bush
S (4) - Morgan Burnett, M.D. Jennings, Jerron McMilliam, Chris Banjo
ST (3) - Mason Crosby, Tim Masthay, Brett Goode

[pbmax]

I think you're right on Taylor v Bostick. They played a lot more snaps than any other TEs last night. In the 4th preseason game, that usually means they're competing for a job.

Banjo returned.

I agree though by similar logic DJ Williams is safe because he barely played that I saw in the second half.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't know. Young sure makes me nervous, especially in the realm of ball security...both interceptions and fumbles. My feeling is that a backup QB doesn't need to make big plays every down, just keep you in the game by avoiding turnovers. I haven't checked Quinn's stats, but I know Young turns it over a lot.

I thought Young looked OK last night. He was making good decisions, had only a couple bad throws. Look at the players around him most of the night. It's true that Young is a little more, shall we say creative, than most QBs. But bottom line is his mix of skills works, he wins games.

The backup QBs in NFC-Nord are Matt Cassel, Josh McCown, Shaun Hill. Of those, I'd say Shaun Hill is better than Young.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I thought Young looked OK last night. He was making good decisions, had only a couple bad throws. Look at the players around him most of the night. It's true that Young is a little more, shall we say creative, than most QBs. But bottom line is his mix of skills works, he wins games.

The backup QBs in NFC-Nord are Matt Cassel, Josh McCown, Shaun Hill. Of those, I'd say Shaun Hill is better than Young.

I'd take any of those backups over Young...even McCown. I didn't watch most of the game, but the stats show that Young had two fumbles. It's what he does. He's one of these guys who makes a brilliant play one down then badly overthrows a receiver the next, or fumbles or throws into triple coverage.

Like I said, today a backup QB doesn't have to win the game, just avoid losing it.

[Patler]

Jarrett Bush made the team last night when everyone new showed they couldn't play gunner. KC gashed us on punt return.
I don't know that Ross is as safe as some people think. Micah Hyde did a good job fielding punts which may have opened a spot for one of the other WRs. But the WRs who would take his spot have to play ST and they all sucked. Maybe Ross is safer than I think.

I was thinking the same thing about Ross. Hyde catches punts so easily and smoothly. He is decisive on returns/fair catches. Green looks decent on kickoffs. Both have roles besides ST. Ross looked better at WR last night, but there was one incomplete pass when he and Franklin nearly ran into each other. I'm not sure who was wrong, but it reminded me of the comment by one of the writers who said that too often in practices Ross is in the plays when something goes wrong.

I could see them keeping Walker, who just seems to catch the ball, and even Johnson based on potential (although I expect PS for him) over Ross, and going with Hyde on punts and Green on kickoffs.

I also agree about Bush. When he hasn't been in, punt coverage suffers.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Like I said, today a backup QB doesn't have to win the game, just avoid losing it.

Well, that's always been the mantra.

Our team is essentially the Green Bay Rodgers. If the golden one goes down, I want a backup QB who has a puncher's chance of winning the game. The Packers are not built to plod their way to a victory with a backup QB and conservative game plan. Vinny has far more ability than you are giving him credit for. I was not discouraged by last night's performance, just a little disappointed.

[Bossman641]

I'll give it a shot

QUARTERBACKS - 2
Rodgers, Young

RUNNING BACKS - 5
Lacy, Franklin, Green, Starks, Kuhn

WIDE RECEIVERS - 5
Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Boykin, Ross. Stash Walker/Johnson on PS. Every year we worry about our WR getting picked up and it never happens. I don't think Walker has enough physical gifts for a team to grab him.

TIGHT ENDS - 4
Finley, Mulligan, Quarless, Taylor. Bostick gets traded for another team's OL reject

OFFENSIVE LINE - 8
Bakhtiari, Sitton, EDS, Lang, Barclay, Newhouse, Van Roten, Other team's OL reject

DEFENSIVE LINE - 8
Pickett, Raji, Jones, Daniels, Wilson, Jolly, Neal, Miller

LINEBACKERS - 9
CM3, Jones, Hawk, Perry, Moses, Lattimore, Barrington, Francois, Mulumba

SECONDARY - 9
Tramon, Shields, Hayward, Hyde, House, Banjo, Burnett, McMillian, Jennings. Red rejoices after Bush is cut

SPECIAL TEAMS - 3
Goode, Masthay, Crosby

Updating my prediction from a few weeks back

[mraynrand]

I thought Young looked OK last night. He was making good decisions, had only a couple bad throws. Look at the players around him most of the night. It's true that Young is a little more, shall we say creative, than most QBs. But bottom line is his mix of skills works, he wins games.

The backup QBs in NFC-Nord are Matt Cassel, Josh McCown, Shaun Hill. Of those, I'd say Shaun Hill is better than Young.

Shaun Hill may be the best backup QB in all of football. McCown is awful, and I haven't seen Cassel in a while to know. Young is an exceptional talent, with significant flaws in accuracy and judgment. He has excellent pad level when he runs so I have confidence Stubby can clean all that other stuff up - to a point.

BTW, Steny Hoyer (Browns) looked pretty good throwing to Tori Gurley last night in Chicago.

[pbmax]

That was the troubling this about Young last night. He did not look confused in plays (he did call 3 TOs to check play and personnel). He did not seem to stay locked on one target and several of his passes seemed to be thrown on time and in rhythm.

But he was more inaccurate during that stretch than in his obviously winging it stretches. I think Tebow and Vince Young are brothers from different mothers.

They should stop teaching him the offense and tell him to go throw it to the open guy or run.

[wist43]

I see my "brain control" powers are now taking effect upon you guys... where's all the Kool-aid talk?? lol...

"I HAVE LAID EGGS IN YOUR BRAIN!!!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAcqFcRcHmM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHtLwmVdcJg

TOO FUNNY!!!