Biggest disappointments iin training camp [Archive]

Patler

08-20-2013, 09:48 AM

What are the most disappointing things from training camp so far? For Wist, I suspect it was seeing Capers there, again. :-) For others, it was probably seeing Bush out there, again.

I am sort of ignoring the injury side of it. Obviously, the injury to Bulaga was extremely disappointing, but injuries are to be expected, so they fall lower on my list.

My biggest disappointments do far:

1. Jonathon Franklin - Far and away my biggest disappointment. Reports were that he was clearly the best pass protector at the Senior Bowl (or whatever game he was at). Several reports said he could help teams immediately as a 3rd down back, because he was very skilled in blitz pickup and was a good receiver. It was also said that he practiced routinely as a kick/punt returner even though he wasn't used for it in college. With his reported open-field skills, he seemed suited, and the Packers openly talked about him as a leading candidate to take the load off Cobb. Reports from camp are that he has been mediocre at best on punts, kicks, blocking and receiving. Even worse, no evidence of the "heady" player he was reported to be.

For me, a big step from my #1 disappointment to my #2 disappointment.

2. Dezman Moses - is he even at camp? Sure haven't heard a thing about him.

3. Terrell Manning - I was hoping to see him exert himself. A few flashes, but nothing to make people take notice.

4. Andrew Datko - been out a lot, but had some bad days early in camp before the injury.

5. Davon House - I thought he would push hard for a starting spot, but seems to have fallen off a bit so far.

6. Collectively, the injuries. After an off season dedicated to reducing injuries, it doesn't seem any different.

I'm not giving up on any of the above players, just was hoping to see more out of them at camp. They still have a couple weeks.

Harlan Huckleby

08-20-2013, 10:40 AM

I don't mind Franklin's bad start too much because he is only a rookie. Cut his ass and go with Green as the third down back, team will be fine. Franklin will probably clear waivers and be on practice squad, if not, it was never meant to be.

http://joycelinder.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/demotivation.us_If-you-love-something-set-it-free-if-it-comes-back-to-you-its-yours-if-it-doesnt-it-never-was_130383134891.jpg

Harlan Huckleby

08-20-2013, 10:43 AM

The disappointment that hurts the team is Jeremy Ross's stumbles. I thought that guy was going to fill an important need. I guess he hasn't been terrible, but there is talk he won't make the roster.

Still time to get it together.

denverYooper

08-20-2013, 10:52 AM

Quarless.

Maybe he'll come back yet, but I had hoped he could step in and be GB's best all-around TE. He could really help open things up even more for the O.

Harlan Huckleby

08-20-2013, 10:56 AM

Quarless.

Maybe he'll come back yet, but I had hoped he could step in and be GB's best all-around TE. He could really help open things up even more for the O.

That's a good call. But I wasn't necessarily counting on him in particular because of the severity of his injury. I would say the disappointment is in any clear #2 emerging.

Patler

08-20-2013, 10:57 AM

Quarless.

Maybe he'll come back yet, but I had hoped he could step in and be GB's best all-around TE. He could really help open things up even more for the O.

Ya, in a way for me, too. But it isn't performance based, it's been due to injury, so I skip over it just like I do Bulaga's. I long ago decided not to be disappointed over injuries, because they are a fact of life in pro sports.

Guiness

08-20-2013, 11:06 AM

First and foremost I'm disappointed in the spelling of this thread title :sad:

Backup QB play. Harrell and Coleman don't seem to have taken a step forward, to the point that the Packers had to scour the unemployment line for something better.

My biggest non-qualifying (because it's an injury) one is Sherrod, I was really hoping we'd see him this TC.

denverYooper

08-20-2013, 11:08 AM

That's a good call. But I wasn't necessarily counting on him in particular because of the severity of his injury. I would say the disappointment is in any clear #2 emerging.

Good point. I should have thrown DJ Williams in there too. Although his tendency to drop balls in games last year was already making me lose hope for him before camp.

Bossman641

08-20-2013, 11:34 AM

I'll lump a few together

Backup TE - Nobody has taken a step forward, be it Williams/Quarless/Taylor. Special shout out to DJ as receiving is supposed to be his thing

Backup QB - Had hoped Coleman would legitimately challenge Harrell for the job. Harrell seems to be the backup by default at this point

Newhouse - He's cut back on his errors, but when he gets beat he really gets beat

Alex Green - Had high hopes for him coming off the knee injury

McMillan - Based on physical skills, I wanted him to take the safety job from Jennings. Instead Jennings is back running with the #1's again.

Bonus disappointment - Greg Jennings. He was one of my favorite players of the past few years. And even though he moved on, I hoped it would be one of those mutual splits where both parties realized the finances just didn't work. Instead he has me on the verge of burning my GJ jersey. Where's that guy who turned a Favre jersey into a Havner?

wist43

08-20-2013, 11:48 AM

I'm disappointed that Dom Capers is still our DC :(

But, then that makes for a much funner January 2014 - looking for a new DC :)

mraynrand

08-20-2013, 12:00 PM

Bonus disappointment - Greg Jennings. He was one of my favorite players of the past few years. And even though he moved on, I hoped it would be one of those mutual splits where both parties realized the finances just didn't work. Instead he has me on the verge of burning my GJ jersey. Where's that guy who turned a Favre jersey into a Havner?

Maybe they'll give you a 'mulligan' on that Jennings jersey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

swede

08-20-2013, 12:36 PM

I'm disappointed that Dom Capers is still our DC :(

But, then that makes for a much funner January 2014 - looking for a new DC :)

With your luck, Capers will retire and his hair will stay on as DC. We know the headset fits. The hair is even more rigid than Dom, though.

Patler

08-20-2013, 12:41 PM

McMillan - Based on physical skills, I wanted him to take the safety job from Jennings. Instead Jennings is back running with the #1's again.

Absolutely. I meant to include him in my list, and forgot. I was hoping he would take over, too. Doesn't seem to have taken any step forward at all.

KYPack

08-20-2013, 01:04 PM

Nick Perry. Progress from this guy would enable our D to leverage both run and pass defense. But what have we got from the guy? Very little. I remember when we used to call KGB the "One Trick Pony". At least Kabeer HAD a trick and had to be accounted for in the pass rush. Perry's mechanics are so repetitive. He simply makes the same bull rush at his blocker. it's the same move whether it's a run or pass he's defending. No spin moves, no swims, no nothin'. He's got the ideal coach in the world and I'm sure Greenie is doing all he can.

My only hope for some production from this kid is that he's saving himself and will come on like a terror in the regular season.

But I doubt it.

MadScientist

08-20-2013, 01:30 PM

Gotta go with Peri for living down to my low expectations. After reading about him post-draft, I liked him only slightly more than SF's AJ Jenkins pick. Still ticked that Houston got Mercilus one pick ahead of us. Peri sucks and is a bust.

pittstang5

08-20-2013, 03:43 PM

BJ Raji. Contract year and have heard nothing about him.

mraynrand

08-20-2013, 04:15 PM

. Perry's mechanics are so repetitive. He simply makes the same bull rush at his blocker. it's the same move whether it's a run or pass he's defending. No spin moves, no swims, no nothin'. He's got the ideal coach in the world and I'm sure Greenie is doing all he can..

I'm confused. If he' not trying other moves, is he ignoring coaching or is he just completely incapable of anything else? How is one to know?

mraynrand

08-20-2013, 04:16 PM

BJ Raji. Contract year and have heard nothing about him.

He's saving his strength for the NFC championship game

Harlan Huckleby

08-20-2013, 04:56 PM

My real disappointment for training camp 2013 is having to listen to sports coverage about what Donald Driver said about Greg Jennings who dissed Aaron Rodgers who is disappointed in Ryan Braun. And Charles Woodson said something. I'm just not interested in silly media spats.

King Friday

08-20-2013, 05:39 PM

I'm with KY...Perry has been a big disappointment. He just does not seem interested in playing LB...and wants to be a DE. He's taking the first train out of town when he has a chance, although he sure as hell isn't going to be anything at DE with his pathetic pass rush moves.

packer4life

08-20-2013, 06:41 PM

My vote goes for biggest camp disappointment is the freak injury to Bulaga. We will never get to see the truly optimal OL lineup for our team. Now, we get a rookie protecting the NFL's most talented QB. ARodg could well be running helter skelter in the pocket, again. Yeah, Bakh has performed solidly thus far, but come on, its a rookie and this is going to affect us in a significant way this year.

This will be the focus of every D coordinator this season. Deflate the offense by confusing a rookie LT; doesn't seem too challenging.

Joemailman

08-20-2013, 07:12 PM

Datko - After Bulaga's injury, he should have been the obvious replacement. Instead, he's probably a longshot to make the team.

Green - He looks like the same 3.5 YPC guy we saw last year even though he's supposed to be fully recovered from his knee injury.

Coleman - He has the physical talent to be a legit NFL QB, but his progression has been slow.

Manning - I thought he'd make a big jump this year, but he may not make the team.

Jeremy Ross - The only reason he might make the team is that they don't want to risk Cobb on returns.

Bretsky

08-20-2013, 07:52 PM

McMillen...the fact that he's not our starting safety is why I wanted to draft Eric Reed so bad
Ross........he seems like more of a JAG than a player lately
DJ Williams....I thought he could be special; he might be lucky to make the team
Franklyn.....I'm cutting slack here as he's a rook but the way he's performed if he was undrafted at this point he'd get cut
BJ Raji.......Maybe it's just me; I have not noticed him yet
Harrell.......dude will always be below average
Perry........my growing worry........that the dude is just not a fit for this defense

Justin Sherrod...........wasted money

Joemailman

08-20-2013, 08:51 PM

Slocum - He hasn't been fired.

Pugger

08-21-2013, 05:42 AM

Pugger

08-21-2013, 05:47 AM

pittstang5

08-21-2013, 06:39 AM

But has anybody - including CM3 - been lights out in the pass rush department this summer?

Jolly has. But I get what you're saying. I'd like to think CM3 has been waiting for the regular season to "turn it on." But, I just don't see Mathews wired that way. He strikes me as 110% guy whether it's preseason or the regular season. Pass rush has definitely been lacking from the 1st team defense in these first two preseason games.

Patler

08-21-2013, 08:06 AM

Jolly has. But I get what you're saying. I'd like to think CM3 has been waiting for the regular season to "turn it on." But, I just don't see Mathews wired that way. He strikes me as 110% guy whether it's preseason or the regular season. Pass rush has definitely been lacking from the 1st team defense in these first two preseason games.

Matthews was asked about it in an interview a few days ago. He said he goes into the 1-on-1 drills with an intent to do a specific thing in a specific way so he can see it on film to decide whether and how to use it. As an example, he said he looks at whether to start a certain move immediately, drive up field first, etc. He is more concerned with seeing how things work or how they might be changed than he is with reacting to what the blocker does and trying to "win."

pbmax

08-21-2013, 08:36 AM

Jolly has. But I get what you're saying. I'd like to think CM3 has been waiting for the regular season to "turn it on." But, I just don't see Mathews wired that way. He strikes me as 110% guy whether it's preseason or the regular season. Pass rush has definitely been lacking from the 1st team defense in these first two preseason games.

Jolly has a lot of wins but against backup personnel in many cases. He is getting write ups and Twitter mentions even when he was buried at the depth chart. I would wait until they publish the month end numbers to say something definitely on this.

Fritz

08-21-2013, 08:49 AM

Slocum - He hasn't been fired.

The players that have been mentioned here frequently fit into my sense of disappointment - Quarless, McMillan (though I'm willing to see how he looks next season), Green, Datko, and so on. Nick Perry I'm taking a wait and see approach on, though I respect KY's opinion.

I am also deeply disappointed this training camp in Drew Barrymore. She has not responded to my repeated invitations. I have used this camp to tell here about the moves I'm working on. I have explained how game days would work - the little (very little) Green Bay Packer apron she'd wear. I have coached her in my emails as to how to respond to me when the Packers are playing badly (oral sex) and when they are playing well (oral sex). This seems to me a simple game plan.

Yes, I'm an aging vet, but I can still perform. Yet Drew does not respond, at all. Biggest disappointment of camp so far.

wist43

08-21-2013, 09:14 AM

The players that have been mentioned here frequently fit into my sense of disappointment - Quarless, McMillan (though I'm willing to see how he looks next season), Green, Datko, and so on. Nick Perry I'm taking a wait and see approach on, though I respect KY's opinion.

I am also deeply disappointed this training camp in Drew Barrymore. She has not responded to my repeated invitations. I have used this camp to tell here about the moves I'm working on. I have explained how game days would work - the little (very little) Green Bay Packer apron she'd wear. I have coached her in my emails as to how to respond to me when the Packers are playing badly (oral sex) and when they are playing well (oral sex). This seems to me a simple game plan.

Yes, I'm an aging vet, but I can still perform. Yet Drew does not respond, at all. Biggest disappointment of camp so far.

You do realize these posts will be used against you in a court of law, yes??

wist43

08-21-2013, 09:33 AM

Jolly has a lot of wins but against backup personnel in many cases. He is getting write ups and Twitter mentions even when he was buried at the depth chart. I would wait until they publish the month end numbers to say something definitely on this.

The guy can flat out play - always could.

His first year he had that ankle problem, but thereafter he has always been a stud. No one is happier to have him back than me...

Doesn't mean Capers will use him at all, or use him properly - but that's another argument. Jolly is a big, talented DL, and we certainly need as many of those as we can get.

Assuming he makes the team - how can he not?? - I will now say we have two 2-gap players, Pickett and Jolly. As I said though, and as everyone should know, Capers will use these guys as little as possible so he can play as small as possible... can lead a horse to water.

Fritz

08-21-2013, 10:10 AM

The guy can flat out play - always could.

His first year he had that ankle problem, but thereafter he has always been a stud. No one is happier to have him back than me...

Doesn't mean Capers will use him at all, or use him properly - but that's another argument. Jolly is a big, talented DL, and we certainly need as many of those as we can get.

Assuming he makes the team - how can he not?? - I will now say we have two 2-gap players, Pickett and Jolly. As I said though, and as everyone should know, Capers will use these guys as little as possible so he can play as small as possible... can lead a horse to water.

Yes, Capers is not trying to put an effective defense on the field. He simply wants small players on the field.

pbmax

08-21-2013, 10:19 AM

The guy can flat out play - always could.

His first year he had that ankle problem, but thereafter he has always been a stud. No one is happier to have him back than me...

Doesn't mean Capers will use him at all, or use him properly - but that's another argument. Jolly is a big, talented DL, and we certainly need as many of those as we can get.

Assuming he makes the team - how can he not?? - I will now say we have two 2-gap players, Pickett and Jolly. As I said though, and as everyone should know, Capers will use these guys as little as possible so he can play as small as possible... can lead a horse to water.

It will be interesting to see the rotation if he makes the roster as I suspect he will. He is not exactly a liability on a passing down, but he is no pass rusher. However, if you get outside pressure on a QB, he would be perfect to close out the play in the middle. He is quick in short spaces.

pbmax

08-21-2013, 10:23 AM

Yes, Capers is not trying to put an effective defense on the field. He simply wants small players on the field.

It will be interesting to see what direction he goes versus San Fran. Theoretically I agree with bobble that speed and execution hurt the Packers more than size in the playoffs. But when you see video of Raji getting crunched by a double team, the urge to go large has to be there.

I think Hawk or Jones leaves the field for Neal and Matthews works all around the LOS playside. But Neal could pull a safety out as well.

mraynrand

08-21-2013, 10:38 AM

It will be interesting to see what direction he goes versus San Fran. Theoretically I agree with bobble that speed and execution hurt the Packers more than size in the playoffs. But when you see video of Raji getting crunched by a double team, the urge to go large has to be there.

I think Hawk or Jones leaves the field for Neal and Matthews works all around the LOS playside. But Neal could pull a safety out as well.

SF will be ready for that adjustment. The simple reality is that the 49ers had a superior OL last year. It wasn't just the Packers that they tossed around. You get beefy on them and they will exploit your lack of speed over the middle. The key to beating the Niners will be to allow the slow drip of their running game to prevent the huge plays, but then you have to score points/possess the ball. The Niners will be able to run effectively on the Packers. It's just going to happen because of their talent level.

I suspect the Packers might think they desperately need to stop the run, will 'sell out' against the run, and get absolutely scorched in the passing game. They adjust at halftime, but it's too late, and SF runs the ball down their throat the whole second half.

pbmax

08-21-2013, 10:58 AM

SF will be ready for that adjustment. The simple reality is that the 49ers had a superior OL last year. It wasn't just the Packers that they tossed around. You get beefy on them and they will exploit your lack of speed over the middle. The key to beating the Niners will be to allow the slow drip of their running game to prevent the huge plays, but then you have to score points/possess the ball. The Niners will be able to run effectively on the Packers. It's just going to happen because of their talent level.

I suspect the Packers might think they desperately need to stop the run, will 'sell out' against the run, and get absolutely scorched in the passing game. They adjust at halftime, but it's too late, and SF runs the ball down their throat the whole second half.

That is why Neal is a potentially big deal. Unless McCarthy has been blowing smoke about his role, he allows you to get bigger and still play pass D. It will be interesting.

A lot depends on how predictable the 49ers are. They ran through the playoffs using the read option and you had that to worry about plus whatever CK could do in the air. If they use packages where they can run read option and still throw on the same play, then it will be a nightmare.

As of now, I think you can matchup on down and distance.

Harlan Huckleby

08-21-2013, 11:34 AM

That is why Neal is a potentially big deal. Unless McCarthy has been blowing smoke about his role, he allows you to get bigger and still play pass D. It will be interesting.

McGinn urges patience as Neal has struggled on a few plays. I urge skeptism. I doubt Neal will be any more suited to playing in space than Aaron Kampman. Maybe there are ways to scheme around his deficiencies. I'm not saying that Neal won't be a big contributor somehow.

It's interesting to see Ryan Kerrigan adapt very well to the linebacker position for Redskins, he's a big guy. But he's also a super athlete, I think he's the exception. I know Neal is a good athlete in measurables.

Pugger

08-21-2013, 12:16 PM

We're doomed!

pbmax

08-21-2013, 12:42 PM

McGinn urges patience as Neal has struggled on a few plays. I urge skeptism. I doubt Neal will be any more suited to playing in space than Aaron Kampman. Maybe there are ways to scheme around his deficiencies. I'm not saying that Neal won't be a big contributor somehow.

It's interesting to see Ryan Kerrigan adapt very well to the linebacker position for Redskins, he's a big guy. But he's also a super athlete, I think he's the exception. I know Neal is a good athlete in measurables.

I don't see him starting. I see him in a specific role where coverage would be unlikely. Barring injury, he won't be starting OLB in the base 3-4.

mraynrand

08-21-2013, 02:17 PM

I urge skeptism. I doubt Neal will be any more suited to playing in space than Aaron Kampman.

If Neal had just learned the Merengue on Dancing with the Stars, he probably could play in space. Now, he's just going to look like an Andy Dick out there.

MadScientist

08-21-2013, 02:19 PM

I don't see him starting. I see him in a specific role where coverage would be unlikely. Barring injury, he won't be starting OLB in the base 3-4.

So that accounts for what 10-20 snaps this season? I do agree that, if he makes it, he will be in for pass rush with some run contain duties. Every once in a while they will drop him back into zone, just to confuse the offense.

mraynrand

08-21-2013, 02:20 PM

It's interesting to see Ryan Kerrigan adapt very well to the linebacker position for Redskins, he's a big guy. But he's also a super athlete, I think he's the exception. I know Neal is a good athlete in measurables.

Good example for comparison. I saw a bit of that Redskins/Steelers preseason game. Kerrigan has talent, but I'm not sure how often they are asking him to drop into coverage. But that may just be because he's been their designated pass rusher since Orakpoo went down. Can't see Neal spending a lot of time in coverage either, but if he's out there, teams will almost be compelled to exploit him.

Teamcheez1

08-21-2013, 02:41 PM

I'm going to go with Datone Jones. Another 1st round pick who has now been injured twice in training camp. At this rate, he could be a future candidate for the Justin Harrell award.

wist43

08-21-2013, 03:31 PM

I don't want to see Neal backpeddling... if he's going to be on the field as an OLB, I want him to be roving and feigning into the gaps. Drop him once in a while, but rove him in conjuction with a zone-blitz and bringing other LB's and the corner out of the slot.

As effective as Kapnerfucker was against us last year, that was more a function of Capers being an idiot than Kapnershithead being destined for the HOF. He's still a young guy, and you throw a lot of shit at him, and don't allow him out of the pocket (easier said than done I admit), then you're on your way to containing their offense.

Playing small against the Niners will get you killed... heat up the pass rush with multiple fronts, and match their toughness on run downs by playing big and you'll be much more effective at slowing the stampede.