Packer castoffs who played long and prospered

[Harlan Huckleby]

The popular Paris Lenon thread has got me thinking about other Packers who were released in questionable GM moves, at least in hindsight. I'll start out with the most dramatic.

Vonnie Holiday was let go so the team could take advantage of the fresh young legs and high motor of Cletidus Hunt. When Cletidus was finishing off his career in arena football, Vonnie was just getting warmed-up in the NFL. Holiday became the Satchel Page of the NFL, playing his final season at DE at the astonishing age of 46.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Does Cullen Jenkins count?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Does Cullen Jenkins count?

I consulted the rules committee, and he's on the bubble. Two more years in the NFL will seal his case.

[QBME]

The popular Paris Lenon thread has got me thinking about other Packers who were released in questionable GM moves, at least in hindsight. I'll start out with the most dramatic.

Vonnie Holiday was let go so the team could take advantage of the fresh young legs and high motor of Cletidus Hunt. When Cletidus was finishing off his career in arena football, Vonnie was just getting warmed-up in the NFL. Holiday became the Satchel Page of the NFL, playing his final season at DE at the astonishing age of 46.
I think you may have fat fingered the calculator - Vonnie was born in 1975, so he is now 38 years old. He had a great 15 year career in any case.

[TravisWilliams23]

One that really sticks in my mind is Craig Hentrich. GB had him 4 years and Wolf decided to let him go. He lasted, I believe, 12 more seasons. GB took a looooooon time before finding a capable replacement.

[Maxie the Taxi]

OK, another one for the rules committee: Vonta Leach.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think you may have fat fingered the calculator - Vonnie was born in 1975, so he is now 38 years old. He had a great 15 year career in any case.

Ya, I lied. Want to make something of it?

[Harlan Huckleby]

OK, another one for the rules committee: Vonta Leach.

No need to kick that one upstairs, he's another classic post-pack performer.

[Harlan Huckleby]

One that really sticks in my mind is Craig Hentrich.
Good call, forgot about that guy.

Maybe this was already mentioned in other thread, but I just saw news, "The Broncos added 12th-year veteran Paris Lenon Tuesday. Lenon has started all 16 games in six of the past seven seasons."

I didn't know how old Vonnie Holiday was, but in recent years when I heard his name mentioned as an active player, it just seemed like decades ago that he was with the Pack.

I'm gonna nominate Tony Mandarich, but that is a stretch. Definitely not a first ballot choice.

[QBME]

Ya, I lied. Want to make something of it?

Nah, just having some friendly banter on a beautiful Friday morning.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nah, just having some friendly banter on a beautiful Friday morning.

Don't mess with me, mother fucker, I'll take you down hard.

[QBME]

Don't mess with me, mother fucker, I'll take you down hard.

Yessir. Have a nice day.

[MadtownPacker]

OK, another one for the rules committee: Vonta Leach.
Big stain there. How many leading rushers did he block for? Texans' Aryan Foster is one right? Wasn't he in San Diego also with LaDanian Tomlinson or am I confusing him with Lorenzo Neal?

[MadtownPacker]

Don't mess with me, mother fucker, I'll take you down hard.
You aint shit. Decrepit old man who never got his big payday. Stick to the arena league of life loser.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Big stain there. How many leading rushers did he block for? Texans' Aryan Foster is one right? Wasn't he in San Diego also with LaDanian Tomlinson or am I confusing him with Lorenzo Neal?

Leach plowed the way for Foster, but never Tomlinson. He's blocking now for Ray Rice. Maybe with Leach Ryan Grant would have gained 2000 yards. :smile:

[Harlan Huckleby]

You aint shit. Decrepit old man who never got his big payday. Stick to the arena league of life loser.

This forum is the arena league of life. And you are the commish, the ultimate loser.

[KYPack]

Big stain there. How many leading rushers did he block for? Texans' Aryan Foster is one right? Wasn't he in San Diego also with LaDanian Tomlinson or am I confusing him with Lorenzo Neal?

Roger that.

Bad mark on MM's report card on that one.

MM wanted pass catching FB's and let the big guy go bc he was pass catching challenged.

That was in the days when he kept 3 FB's on the roster.

One of 'em couldn't have been Leach?

Lo Neal was LT's body guard in SD for a bit.

Neal played in Cincy for a spell. One of the best of the "blow-up" FB's (& a Bulldog, too, eh?)

[pittstang5]

Adam Timmerman?

[mraynrand]

two former Packers that always bothered me when I saw them playing for other teams:

James Lofton
Adam Timmerman

The guy who pissed me off big time after his stint with the Packers was Terry (I get injured every time I'm tackled) Glenn. Probably because he was playing for Dallas and Parcells and that I knew he was repeatedly taking dives to get out of Green Bay. What a talented hosebag.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nobody has mentioned the talent that has bled up to Minnesota past couple decades. I'm thinking of course of Robert Ferguson.


I just looked on Wikipedia, trying to remember when he left the Pack, and here's the action shot they have of him:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/70/FergusonVikes.jpg/438px-FergusonVikes.jpg

[mraynrand]

Nobody has mentioned the talent that has bled up to Minnesota past couple decades. I'm thinking of course of Robert Ferguson.

turd Ferguson did not prosper

[Maxie the Taxi]

Adam Timmerman?

Good one.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I didn't miss Darrin Sharper, but he did prosper somewhat.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Longwell too.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Longwell too.

I missed Longwell on the field but he stunk as a restaurant critic.

[Teamcheez1]

Tbuck - Played as a journeyman for 11 years after he left the Packers, and even won a SB ring while with the Patriots

[Harlan Huckleby]

Have to check with the rules committee on Kurt Warner.

[mraynrand]

Have to check with the rules committee on Kurt Warner.

Wait, I thought you were writing the rules. Haven't finished that yet? Still, can't you check with yourself, or have you been doing too much of that lately?

[Harlan Huckleby]

yes, I think you roughly describe my process

[packer4life]

Favre.

(turns and runs away from thread)

[Patler]

Ben Davidson.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Ben Davidson.

Another classic!

[KYPack]

Tim Brown An All-Pro HB for the Eagles cut by Lombardi for fumblitus.

Alex Hawkins Long time pro for the Colts, also cut by Vince in a roster squeeze.

[Guiness]

Leach plowed the way for Foster, but never Tomlinson. He's blocking now for Ray Rice. Maybe with Leach Ryan Grant would have gained 2000 yards. :smile:

Some might say Leach leaving was a factor of GB abandoning the power run game. He never did seem to get much respect here, the team wanted him to fill Henderson's role. They were both on the squad for 3 years and Leach couldn't displace him, they both left the same year.

[Guiness]

two former Packers that always bothered me when I saw them playing for other teams:

James Lofton
Adam Timmerman

The guy who pissed me off big time after his stint with the Packers was Terry (I get injured every time I'm tackled) Glenn. Probably because he was playing for Dallas and Parcells and that I knew he was repeatedly taking dives to get out of Green Bay. What a talented hosebag.

I had totally blanked from my mind that Terry Glenn played for the Packers. He was actually traded to Dallas, wasn't he? What did they get for him?

[Pugger]

Terrell Buckley.

[Patler]

How about this one:

Terrell Buckley

Played 11 years after GB gave up on him, and got 40 of his 50 career interceptions after leaving GB. For as much as he was despised in GB, he actually had a pretty nice career. Not many guys play 14 years. Not many DBs get 50 interceptions.

[Patler]

Terrell Buckley.

You beat me!!!

[denverYooper]

TBUCK YOU SUCK!!!

[Pugger]

You beat me!!!

GMTA 8-)

[Pugger]

TBUCK YOU SUCK!!!

He sucked for us but he ended up playing for 13 years total.

[Patler]

I had totally blanked from my mind that Terry Glenn played for the Packers. He was actually traded to Dallas, wasn't he? What did they get for him?

He was traded for a contingent draft pick. As I recall, even though he had a decent year with Dallas, the contingency wasn't met, and GB got nothing. Sherman gave up two 4ths to get him, and got nothing for him after one year.

[swede]

Bryce Paup

[KYPack]

I had totally blanked from my mind that Terry Glenn played for the Packers. He was actually traded to Dallas, wasn't he? What did they get for him?

We got a 6th from Dallas after Sherm traded 2 4ths to NE to get him the year before.

Sherm's 2004 draft was a classic in ineptitude. Mike "The Mad King" actually traded 8 draft picks in that draft. Among his bigger gems was trading two picks to move up in the 3rd round to draft a punter. Sherm got two useful players in the 6th and 7th round (Scott Wells and Corey Williams) but got nothing from all his "shrewd" manuveurs. After that draft they relieved Shermy of his GM duties and hired Thompson to straighten out the roster and cap.

[MadScientist]

Hunter Hillenmeyer
Had a good career with the damn bears. He was cut so the Packers could keep some special teams asshole that was dumped mid-season.

[Smidgeon]

How long did Na'il Diggs play post-GB?

[Patler]

We got a 6th from Dallas after Sherm traded 2 4ths to NE to get him the year before.


Wasn't there was something goofy about what he got from Dallas? I thought he ended up with nothing. But, maybe he got a 6th that could have been much higher with just another reception or two, or a few more yards? I'm fairly sure there was something about the contingency that was rather unreasonable.

[Maxie the Taxi]

How long did Na'il Diggs play post-GB?

4 years w/Panthers
1 year each w/Rams and Chargers

[Patler]

Bryce Paup

Great career after the Packers, I agree, but I don't think he was a castoff. GB was losing a lot of player to free agency for a while there because they just couldn't keep everyone with the salary cap. I don't think they wanted to lose him.

[Teamcheez1]

You beat me!!!

Sorry, beat both of you earlier in the thread.

[KYPack]

Wasn't there was something goofy about what he got from Dallas? I thought he ended up with nothing. But, maybe he got a 6th that could have been much higher with just another reception or two, or a few more yards? I'm fairly sure there was something about the contingency that was rather unreasonable.

There may have been a contingency, but we got a 6 for him which the Sherminator promptly traded away for nothing.

The 2004 GBP draft was so shitty, we've all forgotten it.

2004 Packer Draft

RND-PCK NAME POS COLLEGE NOTES


1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
2 55 Traded to Jacksonville in draft-day trade
3a 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State (A)
3b 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson (A)
3c 86 Traded to Jacksonville in draft-day trade
3d 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State (B)
4a 102 Traded to Miami, originally from Jacksonville
4b 118 Traded to Jacksonville in draft-day trade
5 153 Traded to Miami in draft-day trade
6a 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas St (C)
6b 185 Traded to Philadelphia in 2003 draft-day trade
6c 188 Traded to San Francisco, from Dallas for Terry Glenn
7a 226 Traded to San Francisco in draft-day trade
7b 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee

A-From Jacksonville in draft-day trade B-From Miami in draft-day trade C-From San Francisco in draft-day trade

Bob Harlan has said the Shermies dealings with Mike McKenzie were the main reason for his dismissal as GM. I had heard that the Packer Exec council & Harlan were livid when they heard the scuttlebutt around the league about Sherm getting suckered into trading two draft picks to move up to draft a punter.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Great career after the Packers, I agree, but I don't think he was a castoff. GB was losing a lot of player to free agency for a while there because they just couldn't keep everyone with the salary cap. I don't think they wanted to lose him.

"castoff" is a little strong for most of the players, it's almost always a case of their getting an offer that the GM can't match. But in many of the cases, the GM underrated the players.

Fans love their good linebackers, those losses hurt. Bryce Paup was a fan favorite. I would say in order of increasing pain:

Bryce Paup - ouch
Tim Harris - oh shit!
Ted "The Mad Stork" Hendricks - aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh !!!

[Guiness]

There may have been a contingency, but we got a 6 for him which the Sherminator promptly traded away for nothing.

The 2004 GBP draft was so shitty, we've all forgotten it.

2004 Packer Draft

For the love of...did you have to bring that up? Only reason the Pack got ANYTHING out of that draft is that the shots in the dark - the 6th and 7th rounders - both hit their mark in a big way. The 3rd round DT...not so much.

[KYPack]

For the love of...did you have to bring that up? Only reason the Pack got ANYTHING out of that draft is that the shots in the dark - the 6th and 7th rounders - both hit their mark in a big way. The 3rd round DT...not so much.

I'm so sorry, G.

But the Sherm era is way worse than people understand.

I told you all that to bring up this shit....

That draft had Sherm making a fool of himself to get a Punter.

He also got a pittance for Glenn (a 6th) and pissed it away to SF . SF took Sherm's 6th pick (#188) and drafted Andy Lee. Andy Lee is only one of the greatest punters in NFL history. The "Thompson era" has taught all that you take your draft picks and then grow your own. The tale of Andy Lee is one of the best examples of this I've ever seen.

[channtheman]

turd Ferguson did not prosper

Ferguson's greatest play was also when he got seriously hurt. He got clotheslined against Jaxsonville I think on a deep post route, but he actually held onto the ball. He did two great things for the Packers that day.

[hoosier]

Kurt Warner.

[Guiness]

Kurt Warner.

If you're going to get into QBs that passed through GB during Favre's tenure and saw little or none of the field, it's a pretty decent list all by itself.

[bobblehead]

There may have been a contingency, but we got a 6 for him which the Sherminator promptly traded away for nothing.

The 2004 GBP draft was so shitty, we've all forgotten it.

2004 Packer Draft

RND-PCK NAME POS COLLEGE NOTES


1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
2 55 Traded to Jacksonville in draft-day trade
3a 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State (A)
3b 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson (A)
3c 86 Traded to Jacksonville in draft-day trade
3d 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State (B)
4a 102 Traded to Miami, originally from Jacksonville
4b 118 Traded to Jacksonville in draft-day trade
5 153 Traded to Miami in draft-day trade
6a 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas St (C)
6b 185 Traded to Philadelphia in 2003 draft-day trade
6c 188 Traded to San Francisco, from Dallas for Terry Glenn
7a 226 Traded to San Francisco in draft-day trade
7b 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee

A-From Jacksonville in draft-day trade B-From Miami in draft-day trade C-From San Francisco in draft-day trade

Bob Harlan has said the Shermies dealings with Mike McKenzie were the main reason for his dismissal as GM. I had heard that the Packer Exec council & Harlan were livid when they heard the scuttlebutt around the league about Sherm getting suckered into trading two draft picks to move up to draft a punter.

my god, the best two players drafted were the last two.

[bobblehead]

If you're going to get into QBs that passed through GB during Favre's tenure and saw little or none of the field, it's a pretty decent list all by itself.

Aaron Brooks, Mark Bulger, Matt Hasselbeck, Kurt Warner, and I believe I am missing one still.

[Guiness]

Aaron Brooks, Mark Bulger, Matt Hasselbeck, Kurt Warner, and I believe I am missing one still.

You missed Mark Brunell - he was in GB, Bulger was not AFAIK.

[Harlan Huckleby]

hey, Will Blackmon

[pbmax]

my god, the best two players drafted were the last two.

Sherm was sleeping by then and Dorsey was calling in the pick. Or Hatley.

[esoxx]

hey, Will Blackmon
I once sat two rows behind him and his posse at a green bay gamblers game.

[pbmax]

I once sat two rows behind him and his posse at a green bay gamblers game.

Were they carrying him due to injury?

[esoxx]

He did have a noticeable limp. If he were a horse they would have shot him.

[Bretsky]

Ty Detmer

[Bretsky]

Surprised u guys forgot about the Great American..............aka

JOE ANDRUZZI

[Bretsky]

Chris Johnson...the CB that we cut and played already for the Raiders and another team or two........he might stil be playing now

[Bretsky]

Tony Moll ?

[Bretsky]

Jared Sowell

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tony Moll ?

He was a big lug. Not too bad, ya, I think he was a decent player, wish packers had kept him


edit: That guy is still playing. I thought he was from the 90's

[esoxx]

Donny Anderson (for Maxi)

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jared Sowell

well, ok. That's scraping a bit.

who's next ... Kregg Lumpkin ?

[Bretsky]

Scraping............this is scraping..............

Travis Jervey
Leshon Johnson :)

[Guiness]

Chris Johnson...the CB that we cut and played already for the Raiders and another team or two........he might stil be playing now

Uh, yes. He got a ring last season.

[pbmax]

Surprised u guys forgot about the Great American..............aka

JOE ANDRUZZI

Loved his. Wanted him to be the other guard with Rivera

[mraynrand]

He also got a pittance for Glenn (a 6th) and pissed it away to SF .

Seriously? You're worried about a pittance for Glenn? He was a freaking lunatic who took a dive every reception and came out injured more times than the rest of the team combined. Only Parcells could ever get her to play halfway decent. Shermy paid a #4 for him - not exactly a huge loss.

Lets compare a Thompson draft where the Packers are similarly situated: 2008

Nelson
Brohm
Lee
Finley
Thompson
Sitton
Giacomini
Flynn
Swain


So there's virtually no value there except Nelson, Finley and Sitton. Shermy had Wells and Williams come out of the 2004 draft. Half you bozos like Wells over Finley, and many think Nelson is simply a product of the offense. Sitton is a serviceable starter, much like Williams. So, give Thompson credit, he got one more solid starter than Shermy. If Nelson or Sitton hadn't worked out, I guess they fire him too.

[esoxx]

well, ok. That's scraping a bit.

who's next ... Kregg Lumpkin ?

Herbert "Whisper" Goodman

[esoxx]

Lester Archambeau

[esoxx]

Esera Tuaolo - another Packer that defected to the dark side.

[Guiness]

Well, there's Matt Flynn. The guy's made some money, but certainly isn't prospering. 3/6 for 19 yards and 2(!) INTs against the Bears tonight. And he was playing with the 1's!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Standards have fallen, we are in danger of a race to the bottom. Will Blackmon, Ty Detmer, Matt Flynn, Joe Andruzzi, Tony Moll can generously be said to have prospered. But Leshon Johnson? Whisper Goodman? They went on to abject poverty. Esera Tuaolo and Lester Archambeau - maybe, I think I remember ARchambeau being a starter somewhere, but I have my suspicians on both.

I thought I set a certain tone in this thread when I came up with the names Tim Harris & Ted Hendricks. But no, losers are drawn to losers. I'm reminded of Charlie Brown and his cherished baseball card of Marv Throneberry.

[Smeefers]

Tbuck - Played as a journeyman for 11 years after he left the Packers, and even won a SB ring while with the Patriots

Buckley had a pretty good career after the Pack. I always thought of him as a bust.


...He is the only player with 50+ interceptions to never make a pro bowl. In a game against Cincinnati in 1992, his rookie season, Buckley set what remains a current record as the youngest player to return a punt for a touchdown in NFL history (21 years, 105 days). That was his only punt return for a touchdown of his career. In 1996, he led the league in interception return yards with 164.
Terrell Buckley had at least one interception in 13 consecutive seasons. In the 2001 AFC Championship game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Buckley had an intereception in the 24-17 win. He earned a Super Bowl ring 2 weeks later in the win over the St. Louis Rams.

[denverYooper]

Seriously? You're worried about a pittance for Glenn? He was a freaking lunatic who took a dive every reception and came out injured more times than the rest of the team combined. Only Parcells could ever get her to play halfway decent. Shermy paid a #4 for him - not exactly a huge loss.

Lets compare a Thompson draft where the Packers are similarly situated: 2008

Nelson
Brohm
Lee
Finley
Thompson
Sitton
Giacomini
Flynn
Swain


So there's virtually no value there except Nelson, Finley and Sitton. Shermy had Wells and Williams come out of the 2004 draft. Half you bozos like Wells over Finley, and many think Nelson is simply a product of the offense. Sitton is a serviceable starter, much like Williams. So, give Thompson credit, he got one more solid starter than Shermy. If Nelson or Sitton hadn't worked out, I guess they fire him too.

Giacomini is a starter ;).

[Smeefers]

Seriously? You're worried about a pittance for Glenn? He was a freaking lunatic who took a dive every reception and came out injured more times than the rest of the team combined. Only Parcells could ever get her to play halfway decent. Shermy paid a #4 for him - not exactly a huge loss.

Lets compare a Thompson draft where the Packers are similarly situated: 2008

Nelson
Brohm
Lee
Finley
Thompson
Sitton
Giacomini
Flynn
Swain


So there's virtually no value there except Nelson, Finley and Sitton. Shermy had Wells and Williams come out of the 2004 draft. Half you bozos like Wells over Finley, and many think Nelson is simply a product of the offense. Sitton is a serviceable starter, much like Williams. So, give Thompson credit, he got one more solid starter than Shermy. If Nelson or Sitton hadn't worked out, I guess they fire him too.

I think the vitriol is over trading two players for a punter. The rest is just icing on the cake. I also think you're going to have a hard time defending the position that Sherman was just as good a GM as Thompson is.

[Pugger]

Vonte Leach?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Bill Curry

[Maxie the Taxi]

Babe Parilli

[mraynrand]

I think the vitriol is over trading two players for a punter. The rest is just icing on the cake. I also think you're going to have a hard time defending the position that Sherman was just as good a GM as Thompson is.

I would never claim Sherman was as good as Thompson. Ever. But Shermy had three years as GM and it was a mixed bag. And if you look at Ron Wolf's years as GM, 1999 and 2001 stand out as particularly awful. But Wolf brought in Favre and in 2000 he had one the best years a GM can ever have, with I think 5 quality starters drafted and trading garbage for Ahman Green. Thompson has hiring Stubby, drafting Rodgers and Matthews, and everything else he did to make a consistent winner and Superbowl champion. Shermy was marginal at best, but it was only a small sample. But, much like Ray Rhodes, sometimes a small sample is all you need: "I think it was the worst decision I made, quite honestly" Bob Harlan said about giving Shermy the GM job. And it was the difficulty dealing with McKenzie that Harlan cited as being the key event that made up his mind. McKenzie has a superbowl ring; Shermy, uh no.

[Willard]

Herb Adderley. Scored the first ever Pick6 in a Super Bowl......for the cowgirls.

[Willard]

Willie Buchanon

[mraynrand]

Ted Hendricks

[mraynrand]

Sherm was sleeping by then and Dorsey was calling in the pick. Or Hatley.

Hatley was a few weeks away from a dirt nap. Wonder if his health was affecting the draft process even at that point. Or whether Shermy overruling with absurdities caused his death.

[Willard]

Ted Hendricks
His departure helped teach a young Willard that life isn't fair. :cry:

[mraynrand]

His departure helped teach a young Willard that life isn't fair. :cry:

The 70s and 80s Packer experience taught me that. Along with The 76ers getting Moses Malone and the Celtics getting Dennis Johnson in successive seasons to thwart the Buck's chance at a title.

[Willard]

The 70s and 80s Packer experience taught me that. Along with The 76ers getting Moses Malone and the Celtics getting Dennis Johnson in successive seasons to thwart the Buck's chance at a title.
...and the '82 World Series.

[Fritz]

I believe Aaron Taylor had a pretty good career as a guard after the Packers could not afford to keep him.

[Guiness]

He didn't play long and prosper, but he is a Packer castoff - Brett Swain was jettisoned by the Seahawks in cutdowns today.

[Patler]

I believe Aaron Taylor had a pretty good career as a guard after the Packers could not afford to keep him.

Only a couple years. Had a severe injury of some sort and his career was done.