GET OUTTA MY HEAD BOB!!!

[bobblehead]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/for-packers-more-tackling-in-camp-could-be-best-medicine-for-rash-of-injuries-b9985208z1-221490581.html

Ok, how many times have I made this point. MM doesn't practice reality. He won't practice in the cold when the game will be played in the cold, and he doesn't hit and tackle enough in practice which leads to guys being unprepared to tackle and hit in real games.

McGinn, obviously in need of a new schtick, has been reading my posts. I should sue.

[swede]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/for-packers-more-tackling-in-camp-could-be-best-medicine-for-rash-of-injuries-b9985208z1-221490581.html

Ok, how many times have I made this point. MM doesn't practice reality. He won't practice in the cold when the game will be played in the cold, and he doesn't hit and tackle enough in practice which leads to guys being unprepared to tackle and hit in real games.

McGinn, obviously in need of a new schtick, has been reading my posts. I should sue.

The Packers play in pads up to the limit described by the CBA, yes?

After a long hot summer of Bob doing good journalism he is returning to the role of provocateur.

[pbmax]

Would love to see a breakdown of net injury gain between players injured by not hitting versus players injured by hitting.

:D

[bobblehead]

I simply believe if you don't practice hitting, then go full speed on sunday you get hurt. I have always believed it. Just like a punter who never catches a snap in the cold and wind goes outside in chicago and can't catch a snap.

If you don't hit at 90% in camp and realize that "hey, my head was out of position by 1 degree" or "shit, I need to square up so my knee isn't taking the pressure" then when the game comes and you MUST do it 100% you get hurt.

To me Bob isn't provacative on this, he is simply parroting what I have said for 5 years.....and no, I don't believe in luck. There is no way on earth this team is this "unlucky" with regard to injuries. Our slow starts, our inability to run early every year is a direct result of not being ready for the contact of an NFL game. Obviously I love MM and TT for the entire body of work, but that doesn't mean they can't be criticized.

[pbmax]

I simply believe if you don't practice hitting, then go full speed on sunday you get hurt. I have always believed it. Just like a punter who never catches a snap in the cold and wind goes outside in chicago and can't catch a snap.

If you don't hit at 90% in camp and realize that "hey, my head was out of position by 1 degree" or "shit, I need to square up so my knee isn't taking the pressure" then when the game comes and you MUST do it 100% you get hurt.

To me Bob isn't provacative on this, he is simply parroting what I have said for 5 years.....and no, I don't believe in luck. There is no way on earth this team is this "unlucky" with regard to injuries. Our slow starts, our inability to run early every year is a direct result of not being ready for the contact of an NFL game. Obviously I love MM and TT for the entire body of work, but that doesn't mean they can't be criticized.

I agree with your last paragraph and might even buy the logic that not hitting much in camp could increase injuries in the regular season.

But Bob's premise is entirely on camp injuries.

[bobblehead]

Nah, his premise is on injuries. Games, live scrimmages, whenever. When it is time to hit, we aren't prepared for it.

[pbmax]

Nah, his premise is on injuries. Games, live scrimmages, whenever. When it is time to hit, we aren't prepared for it.

No, his premise is that by early August the Packers have taken themselves out of contention. And he wants not just hitting, which he admits happens in the Packers camp.

He wants tackling. Taking the runner to the ground is what he specifically mentions. The other teams he mentions he talks not of hitting segments, but of live tackling segments.

Bulaga tore his ACL in a scrimmage pass block. Same routine he had performed before in camp during one one ones and in half line drills.

[Joemailman]

On a somewhat related note:

DuJuan Harris (knee) and Casey Hayward (hamstring) were both on PUP for several weeks due to injuries they suffered on their own prior to training camp. They both returned to practice last week and I believe suffered repeat injuries in the game Friday night. Bad luck, or was there a misdiagnosis as to there readiness to come back?

[Fritz]

No, his premise is that by early August the Packers have taken themselves out of contention. And he wants not just hitting, which he admits happens in the Packers camp.

He wants tackling. Taking the runner to the ground is what he specifically mentions. The other teams he mentions he talks not of hitting segments, but of live tackling segments.

Bulaga tore his ACL in a scrimmage pass block. Same routine he had performed before in camp during one one ones and in half line drills.

Maybe if he'd been tackling someone instead he wouldn't have gotten hurt.

But on a serious note, it surely would be possible to categorize injuries incurred by various NFL teams - those that happen during individual drills ("I started into my cut, and the knee just buckled"), those that happened during contact drills ("The rookie FA from Tallahassee State rolled up on my ankle"), and those that occurred for teams that did the live tackling bit. Then you'd have to figure out how much of each each team did. I think maybe that would then indicate whether live tackling stuff helps, hurts, or doesn't matter.

Or something like that.

[MadtownPacker]

I agree with Bobble. A fighter spars and gets hit to prepare for a fight, Harlan Huckleby does anus stretches to get ready for a Friday night, and Fritz punches himself in the balls to ready himself for the ladies at the bar. Pain should be practiced also.

[George Cumby]

I agree with Bobble. A fighter spars and gets hit to prepare for a fight, Harlan Huckleby does anus stretches to get ready for a Friday night, and Fritz punches himself in the balls to ready himself for the ladies at the bar. Pain should be practiced also.

And you let the old lady cuff you and throw in the back of the school bus preparing for....... Never mind................

[pbmax]

I agree with Bobble. A fighter spars and gets hit to prepare for a fight, Harlan Huckleby does anus stretches to get ready for a Friday night, and Fritz punches himself in the balls to ready himself for the ladies at the bar. Pain should be practiced also.

If a fighter gets hurt before his fight, they postpone it. And he practices with a bubble around his head.

[Upnorth]

I agree with Bobble. A fighter spars and gets hit to prepare for a fight, Harlan Huckleby does anus stretches to get ready for a Friday night, and Fritz punches himself in the balls to ready himself for the ladies at the bar. Pain should be practiced also.

I was never any good at boxing but I was frequently asked to be a sparring partner. Never did we intentionaly hit hard. The one getting ready for the fight sure hit hard though as my slightly crooked nose proves.

[King Friday]

Well, since 18 other NFL teams also refuse to do live tackling, I guess I could reasonably assume that 18 other teams must have atrocious injury situations this preseason. However, Bobby did not note that all those other NFL teams also experienced high rates of injury. So why does the lack of live tackling ONLY hurt the Packers?

Honestly, I'm wondering if it is more about diet and/or conditioning than live tackling. I really don't see how numerous muscle strains can be prevented by doing live tackling drills.

[denverYooper]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100913185335/twinpeaks/images/9/91/TwinPeaksBob.jpg

[MadScientist]

Well, since 18 other NFL teams also refuse to do live tackling, I guess I could reasonably assume that 18 other teams must have atrocious injury situations this preseason. However, Bobby did not note that all those other NFL teams also experienced high rates of injury. So why does the lack of live tackling ONLY hurt the Packers?

Bob was selective with his reporting. It should be simple to get the data from each team about how many practices had live tackling and how long the sessions were. Then put that in a table with player-days missed for practices and for games. When we see the raw data, we can have a better idea of if there is any meaning behind what he wrote. Even from that limited list, I didn't see any correlation between the live tacking and how good a team was.

Also he makes a big deal about the practice that got cancelled, but refuses to acknowledge that it was a planned cancel.

[MadtownPacker]

And you let the old lady cuff you and throw in the back of the school bus preparing for....... Never mind................
Your high school experience was way better than mine.:tup:

[MadtownPacker]

If a fighter gets hurt before his fight, they postpone it. And he practices with a bubble around his head.
These guys don't practice with a bubble on their heads?

I was never any good at boxing but I was frequently asked to be a sparring partner. Never did we intentionaly hit hard. The one getting ready for the fight sure hit hard though as my slightly crooked nose proves.I wouldn't expect them to go full speed. Sounds like you should have hit back harder. Nutz or Skinbasket can probably train you for sweet revenge.


Well, since 18 other NFL teams also refuse to do live tackling, I guess I could reasonably assume that 18 other teams must have atrocious injury situations this preseason. However, Bobby did not note that all those other NFL teams also experienced high rates of injury. So why does the lack of live tackling ONLY hurt the Packers?

Honestly, I'm wondering if it is more about diet and/or conditioning than live tackling. I really don't see how numerous muscle strains can be prevented by doing live tackling drills.I would like to see the records of the teams that do.

[Patler]

The article is nothing but speculation. Too bad, it could be an interesting topic if he had gathered some substance. for it.

Speaking of unsubstantiated speculation, I have thrown out another hypothesis for the seeming increase in Packer injuries in recent years, but haven't had the desire or time to really dig into. The fancy-ass turf they put in Lambeau, and have since put on the practice field(s?). If I remember correctly, it came out as the next great thing, combining the features of a synthetic turf with those of natural grass, but after initial excitement for it, some stadiums backed away from it, saying it emphasized the negative aspects of each. When the Packers first announced that they would put it in Lambeau, I remember feeling uneasy about it.

[Pugger]

But is there enough synthetic fibers in the grass to really make a difference? I thought I read they stitched something like 10% into the grass to help keep it together and viable once the weather got cold...?

[MadScientist]

The article is nothing but speculation. Too bad, it could be an interesting topic if he had gathered some substance. for it.

Speaking of unsubstantiated speculation, I have thrown out another hypothesis for the seeming increase in Packer injuries in recent years, but haven't had the desire or time to really dig into. The fancy-ass turf they put in Lambeau, and have since put on the practice field(s?). If I remember correctly, it came out as the next great thing, combining the features of a synthetic turf with those of natural grass, but after initial excitement for it, some stadiums backed away from it, saying it emphasized the negative aspects of each. When the Packers first announced that they would put it in Lambeau, I remember feeling uneasy about it.

It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between DD GrassMaster and injuries, but my guess would be that there isn't. Knee, ankle and toe injuries are most likely to be turf related, but then again they happen on all types of turf. There were a number of muscle injuries, which would point to more a conditioning or warmup problem. Minor point, but the turf was in the practice field in 2005, and installed in Lambeau several years later.

Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Denver use in their stadiums, I don't know about their practice fields.

[pbmax]

Doesn't grassmaster use all real grass? The difference is that the sod/dirt is stitched together so it does not tear up. It provides a solid foundation that won't tear apart even when wet or cold?

The turf that had synthetic fibres along with the actual grass blades was torn out after a year or two because whenever it got wet (even dewy) players slipped on it like it was a plastic garbage bag spread out over the field. That was during Sherman's time and we had to scout pregame reports about the length of cleats players were wearing.

[MadScientist]

Doesn't grassmaster use all real grass? The difference is that the sod/dirt is stitched together so it does not tear up. It provides a solid foundation that won't tear apart even when wet or cold?

The turf that had synthetic fibres along with the actual grass blades was torn out after a year or two because whenever it got wet (even dewy) players slipped on it like it was a plastic garbage bag spread out over the field. That was during Sherman's time and we had to scout pregame reports about the length of cleats players were wearing.

From the maker:


What is DESSO GrassMaster® hybrid grass?

A DESSO GrassMaster ® hybrid grass pitch is a 100% natural sport grass pitch reinforced by millions of Desso artificial turf fibres.

with a patented technique, specialised installers inject 20 million Desso artificial turf fibres in a natural grass mat
the natural grass roots intertwine with the 20 cm deep injected artificial turf fibres
result: a high-tech, stable pitch that can take 3 times as much playing than a normal, natural grass pitch



From the Packers:

Field: Installed in 2007, the top level of the field system is 12 inches of root-zone sand and Kentucky bluegrass turf. DD GrassMaster synthetic fibers are stitched into the surface, providing strength and stability to the field. Fibers extend approximately seven inches below the surface and are exposed approximately one inch above the surface and are spaced every three-quarters of an inch. Approximately 20 million individual stitches make up the process.

[pbmax]

I was wrong, at least partially. those artificial fibres are inserter vertically. 2 cm above the dirt. Watch video to see Lambeau shoutout.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNiArKmJ10

[mraynrand]

I'm totally confused now. I thought that in 2007, the Packers installed the Donald Driver (DD) Bassmaster, bass-o-matic


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BQFv83QJ2Y

[Bossman641]

This article is crap. It's Bob tossing a bone to the "Packers are too small/weak" crowd to get them riled up.

I'm not saying the premise itself is horrible, but having data tracking injuries and IR'ed players for the 19 non-tackling teams vs the 13 tackling would make his case a lot stronger.

[MadScientist]

This article is crap. It's Bob tossing a bone to the "Packers are too small/weak" crowd to get them riled up.

I'm not saying the premise itself is horrible, but having data tracking injuries and IR'ed players for the 19 non-tackling teams vs the 13 tackling would make his case a lot stronger.
I'd bet that he did check all the teams and if the data had actually supported his premise that it would have been fully included as a table at the end of the article?

[Fritz]

It is a lazy article.