Winning Is A Habit

[Maxie the Taxi]

As we all know, the Packers play one of the most important games of their season next weekend in San Francisco. It is interesting that Harbaugh and McCarthy took radically different approaches to that game.

Harbaugh's 49ers went 3 and 1 in the preseason. His team crushed the Chargers last night 41-6. Watch the highlights and it's clear that the 49ers are confident as hell.

By contrast, McCarthy's Packers went 1 and 3 in the preseason. His team was embarrassed by the Chiefs 30-8. The Packers offense was unproductive all preseason. No reason for any confidence in Green Bay.

The Packers are in the position of having to flip the switch on to their "A" game. The 49ers have played with that switch on all preseason.

Throughout his career, Harbaugh's preseason record has been 8W and 4L. McCarthy's has been 15W and 17L. This difference in philosophy is a bit ironic in light of the fact that Green Bay's iconic head coach, Vince Lombardi, believed as Harbaugh does...that winning in the preseason will carry over into the season, i.e., winning is a habit.

In his tenure at Green Bay, Lombardi's record in the preseason was 42W and 8L. Obviously, McCarthy doesn't buy into Lombardi's "winning is a habit" philosophy. He sees the preseason as merely an opportunity to checkout the talent and abilities of 4th, 5th and 6th tier players.

Lombardi used the preseason to evaluate his backup players, but he didn't use the preseason to "select" his backup players. He could evaluate talent. He made decisions based on what he saw in practice and used preseason games to get these backup players some experience. But his focus was always on winning.

An example:


But the Packers had gone 1-10-1 in 1958. It was Lombardi's eye for talent and his ability to put players in the right places — and then coach them up — that made all the difference.

"Willie Davis was an offensive lineman with the Browns, and coach Lombardi switched him to defensive end," said Hall of Fame cornerback Herb Adderley. "He switched Dave Robinson (from end) to linebacker and me (from receiver) to corner and we all made the Hall of Fame. Bart Starr was the scout team quarterback. He switched that around. He put (Paul) Hornung where he belonged.

"The man knew talent."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/would-legendary-green-bay-packers-coach-be-successful-in-todays-nfl-b9928308z1-210721441.html

I remember Lombardi once pulling his scrubs and re-inserting his regulars late in a preseason game just to win it.

So the question is: Is all this talk about confidence being contagious and winning being a habit just talk? Or do the words actually mean something?

Here's some relevant quotes by St. Vincent:


“Winning is a habit. Watch your thoughts, they become your beliefs. Watch your beliefs, they become your words. Watch your words, they become your actions. Watch your actions, they become your habits. Watch your habits, they become your character.”


“Confidence is contagious and so is lack of confidence, and a customer will recognize both.”


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don’t do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Now the real question is: Which team has the advantage going into next week's game? Which players on which team really believe they are going to win that game?

[Joemailman]

The 49ers are the defending NFC Champs. They beat the Packers twice last year. I think they'd be pretty confident no matter the preseason results. I don't think there's a right way and a wrong way to approach the preseason. Different approaches work for different teams.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The question is will McCarthy's approach work for his team, especially in light of last year's losses to the 49ers. I think I would have done something a bit more than business as usual this year considering the 1st game of the season. That's just me.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Now the real question is: Which team has the advantage going into next week's game? Which players on which team really believe they are going to win that game?

I don't think you can look at anecdotal information. You need to look at stats to see how well preseason record correlates with regular season record. I don't know the answer to that.

There is bound to be some truth to what you say, but how much?

[wist43]

I don't put any weight to preseason record - I want to look at prospects, and prepare the starters.

That said, what we saw this preseason does not portend well for the regular season b/c I don't believe our coaching staff changed anything from last year - and last year we were woefully behind the best teams; most notably of course SF.

I expect a repeat of Game 1 from last year, 30-22 sounds about right... maybe a little wider spread 34-17.

[mraynrand]

The locked in starters in preseason are not playing to win. They are playing to tune up and get through without injury. Stubby makes the gamble that reducing hits in August will have his men fresh for the December run, so there's a tendency to start slow. It's like a distance race though - you can't start out so slow that it's impossible to close the gap, no matter what your endurance and closing speed.

[Upnorth]

Ever since Buluga went down I have doubted we will win against SF. Prior to him I was 50-50. If the oline can give arod some time and if capers has addressed the pistol readoption run game we win. If Oline is solid and capers d blows we might win. If oline is bad and capers blows look the f out we are getting pounded!

[mraynrand]

I get the impression that this preseason Stubby and the Caped maligner have revealed next to nothing that they will use in the regular season, except that Rodgers will throw and receivers will catch - and the Caped Maligner will mal-align the D-line. Stubby might just trot out a six man O-line with Mulligan at TE and run it or play action off it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Good point, Harlan. Check this chart out...

http://walterfootball.com/betting_PRE.php

It's a compilation of the preseason records of all NFL head coaches (minus last night's games). Some examples...

Baltimore, John Harbaugh 15-9

New England, Bill Belichick 32-26

Pittsburgh, Mike Tomlin 19-10

San Francisco, Jim Harbaugh 8-4

Seattle, Pete Carroll 11-5

Washington, Mike Shanahan 53-23

Then there is New York Giants, Tom Coughlin, 19-21.

Obviously, it's an intangible, but to my mind a very important one. Kind of the will-to-win Rudy factor?

[Maxie the Taxi]

I get the impression that this preseason Stubby and the Caped maligner have revealed next to nothing that they will use in the regular season, except that Rodgers will throw and receivers will catch - and the Caped Maligner will mal-align the D-line. Stubby might just trot out a six man O-line with Mulligan at TE and run it or play action off it.

Here again, it's a different philosophy than Lombardi's. Lombardi didn't care what he revealed. He let the other team know what his team was liable to do and then dared the opposition to stop them. His philosophy was win the next game and the rest will take care of themselves. When the starters got gassed at the end of the season, Lombardi just pushed them harder. In fact, he pushed them hardest in training camp so they could draw on that experience at the end of the season.

[mraynrand]

Obviously, it's an intangible, but to my mind a very important one. Kind of the will-to-win Rudy factor?

Sure, except the starters aren't playing much. My concern with this team is another intangible: leadership. Losing Woodson, Driver, and Bishop is huge in that area, and the effect mostly indiscernible to the common fan.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Sure, except the starters aren't playing much. My concern with this team is another intangible: leadership. Losing Woodson, Driver, and Bishop is huge in that area, and the effect mostly indiscernible to the common fan.

I agree with that. To me it's another reason to play the regulars a little bit longer in preseason.

[Joemailman]

Jim Schwartz 14-5

[Maxie the Taxi]

Jim Schwartz 14-5

I swear I didn't forget him on purpose!:-)

[mraynrand]

Here again, it's a different philosophy than Lombardi's. Lombardi didn't care what he revealed. He let the other team know what his team was liable to do and then dared the opposition to stop them. His philosophy was win the next game and the rest will take care of themselves. When the starters got gassed at the end of the season, Lombardi just pushed them harder. In fact, he pushed them hardest in training camp so they could draw on that experience at the end of the season.

Things are a bit different these days. most NFL Athletes come into camp fantastically conditioned and don't need training camp to get into shape, just football shape. A lot of Lombardi guys were coming in from their insurance sales routes or other off season jobs and were flabby and weaker.
Also, the focus in the offseason by the coaching staff to formulate team specific game plans that they then tweak during the individual weeks is much more advanced. It seems that teams like the Packers show very little of that except the most generic aspects of their play books, accentuated by the missing starters. Moreover, the playbooks are absurdly huge and there is a winnowing for each week. Starr could call all the plays in the huddle because they only had six or seven (I'm exaggerating :)). Practice plays to perfection? Sure, but do that in closed practices. Why give the other teams preseason film to know what you're doing.

[Guiness]

Jim Schwartz 14-5

On a related note, Rod Marinelli was 4-0 in 2008...the only games he won that year. Rex Ryan might have a new opinion on doing whatever it takes to win as well, although he's pretty thick headed.

[George Cumby]

I don't think this is one of the most important games of the season. The most important games are the ones which ensure the postseason berth and then games thereafter.

What is important is that the team plays well and isn't humiliated again. If they are blown out and humiliated, then there is a problem.

[mraynrand]

Here's a good read about Les Steckel, with references to preseason philosophy.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1122483/

Classic quotes:

After six straight safety blitzes in preseason loss to Eagles:

"You don't change your game plan just because the enemy sneaks up on you in the middle of a river"

When Keith Millard signed with the USFL:

"When I was in Vietnam and the colonel told us to take the hill, we knew we would lose some guys, but by God, we;d take the hill"

They lost to the Cardinals 31-0

[Maxie the Taxi]

Things are a bit different these days. most NFL Athletes come into camp fantastically conditioned and don't need training camp to get into shape, just football shape. A lot of Lombardi guys were coming in from their insurance sales routes or other off season jobs and were flabby and weaker.
Also, the focus in the offseason by the coaching staff to formulate team specific game plans that they then tweak during the individual weeks is much more advanced. It seems that teams like the Packers show very little of that except the most generic aspects of their play books, accentuated by the missing starters. Moreover, the playbooks are absurdly huge and there is a winnowing for each week. Starr could call all the plays in the huddle because they only had six or seven (I'm exaggerating :)). Practice plays to perfection? Sure, but do that in closed practices. Why give the other teams preseason film to know what you're doing.

I understand what you're saying and know you're right about the way things work nowadays. I guess I'm just an incurable throwback. Sometimes I wish the team nowadays would concentrate on six or seven plays and get them down pat rather than throw in all the different angles each week and out think themselves.

Especially on defense. When "communication" becomes the most important aspect of playing DB, the game has become too complicated. But then maybe youth nowadays are smarter than us old guys were in our day.

[mraynrand]

A note discovered in research: Jim Ringo coached the Bills for around two seasons, 76-77 to a sterling record of 3-20. I did not know that.

[mraynrand]

On a related note, Rod Marinelli was 4-0 in 2008...the only games he won that year. ...


You're in this dark tunnel and you've got no way out, you're waiting for light, and you see that light, what do you do? What do you do? You start digging and getting out. … It's dark and I'm going to dig through. My shovel is sharp and my pick is sharp and my will is outstanding.

[run pMc]

By contrast, McCarthy's Packers went 1 and 3 in the preseason. His team was embarrassed by the Chiefs 30-8. The Packers offense was unproductive all preseason. No reason for any confidence in Green Bay.

I would have liked better production/execution this preseason, but consider Rodgers didn't play all that much. He's one of the longest tenured guys on the roster, the QB and frankly the franchise...as he goes, so goes the team. If you don't play him it's no surprise the team floundered a little. Kaepernick is still learning the game (scary thought) and can use the preseason reps more than Rodgers.

I don't have a problem in theory with using preseason to help make roster decisions. I get frustrated seeing some of those potential backups screw up...probably why people have trouble watching exhibition football.

[mraynrand]

I understand what you're saying and know you're right about the way things work nowadays. I guess I'm just an incurable throwback. Sometimes I wish the team nowadays would concentrate on six or seven plays and get them down pat rather than throw in all the different angles each week and out think themselves.

Especially on defense. When "communication" becomes the most important aspect of playing DB, the game has become too complicated. But then maybe youth nowadays are smarter than us old guys were in our day.

well, smarts and wisdom are very different things, and more often than not, they don't travel together. Lombardi had both, and he was perfect for his era.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Here's a good read about Les Steckel, with references to preseason philosophy.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1122483/

Classic quotes:

After six straight safety blitzes in preseason loss to Eagles:

"You don't change your game plan just because the enemy sneaks up on you in the middle of a river"

When Keith Millard signed with the USFL:

"When I was in Vietnam and the colonel told us to take the hill, we knew we would lose some guys, but by God, we;d take the hill"

They lost to the Cardinals 31-0

Steckel was one and done. What an idiot. He reminds me of Kirk Douglas in "Seven Days in May."

[HarveyWallbangers]

Since 2005, the eventual Super Bowl champion went 14-14 in the preseason. The team with the worst record went 21-7 in the preseason.

Teams with good backup QBs generally have an advantage in the preseason. We don't have a good backup QB. Young could be eventually, but he doesn't know the offense.

I don't care at all about preseason record. Completely meaningless. I do look for questions to get answered. I think we've had a mixed bag in that respect. The OL is still a question mark. The DL looks legit.

[denverYooper]

Since 2005, the eventual Super Bowl champion went 14-14 in the preseason. The team with the worst record went 21-7 in the preseason.

Teams with good backup QBs generally have an advantage in the preseason. We don't have a good backup QB. Young could be eventually, but he doesn't know the offense.

I don't care at all about preseason record. Completely meaningless. I do look for questions to get answered. I think we've had a mixed bag in that respect. The OL is still a question mark. The DL looks legit.

\thread

[Maxie the Taxi]

In the SI article Ayn posted, it's interesting that 30 years ago "conventional wisdom" in the NFL was to use first team players in the last preseason game "as a tune-up." Steckel called himself "unconventional" and started rookies and free agents in hopes of finding "one good player."

Steckel's team went 3-13 in the regular season.

All I'm saying is if it were me I'd play a little harder to win cause I do believe winning becomes a habit.

Then again, I'm the guy who believed in Santa Claus until my second year in High School.:?

[pittstang5]

I like winning and I want the Packers to win, even in the preseason. However, I have changed that attitude a little toward preseason the last couple years. I pay closer attention to the first stringers than anything else. If they look good - I'm fine.

My concerns are like everyone else - that first string O-line is the weakest we have seen since McCarthy has taken over. YES, weaker than playing Adrian Klemm and Will Whitticker. We're stuck with it, I just hope Rogers doesn't get killed week 1. That 49ers D scares me more than Kaeper-what's his face running all over the Packers. Gameplan should be to run the ball. Who cares if we get one yard, no yards or negative yards. Keep the D honest. And then short - dink and dunk stuff. Forget going deep altogether, Rogers will not have time. IIRC, wasn't Rogers throwing deep at least once every series (or so it would seem) during that game. Save that for another day.

[denverYooper]

San Fran gets a lot of well-deserved praise right now, and rightly so. They've got a lot of talent and are tightly run. But Harbaugh hasn't won anything yet, and he squandered a great opportunity last year. He had a healthy team, with a lot of high picks hitting their window. He had Kaepernick bust onto the scene and tear into the playoffs without a lot of film. Now he has to do it all again. I'm not so sure that the 9ers don't start to decline at least a little this year. As we know, it doesn't take much to get knocked from the top and teams don't usually stay up there for very long before they drop and need to regroup a bit. They're now thin in the secondary, Justin Smith got injured last year and is getting up there a bit, and they don't have a lot at backup QB. They have their share of flaws that will stick out when they struggle.

Look, I think Harbaugh runs a tight ship out there and they have a great front 7 and starting OL. They'll win their share of games. But it was not so long ago that GB's hot rod offense was king and they won many many games in a row. A key injury (Collins), enough film, and time caught up to find a major weakness that could be used to reign in the Pack's ace in the hole (Rodgers raining thunderbolts from the sky). M3 was widely hailed as one of the best head coaches and an offensive guru. Now Smugbaugh sits there, ready to get knocked off, just as our own porcine commander was.

It's a good bet that the 9ers won't be the kings by the year's end. Shoot, maybe KC will be. They've got a lot of high picks that have struggled through several years of bad coaching and terrible QB play. They were -24 on TO margin last year. Maybe Reid will come in and bolt a passable offense onto a pretty good roster and they'll take off. The Rams are another interesting team right now that could take off. The Saints might be good for another run.

So it goes.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If someone's going to take the 9ers down a peg, I predict it will be the Seahawks. Much as I dislike the Peter Carroll, he has put together a fine team, offense and defense.

[bobblehead]

Ok, I disagree maxi, the hags are the most overrated team in the nfl right now.

And while I am at it, where were all the "preseason matters" people when Burt wouldn't report until the 3rd week of camp? I thought it didn't matter for veterans. Oh snap, did I just go there!!!

[Maxie the Taxi]

Who's Burt? Seriously, you might be right. I just can't find an obvious weakness on the hawks right now. I think Peter is an arrogant prick, but he does have a plan and he seems to be following it.

[pbmax]

Ok, I disagree maxi, the hags are the most overrated team in the nfl right now.

Agree. Seattle will struggle more than San Fran to repeat last year.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I still don't recognize a glaring weakness.

[mraynrand]

Ok, I disagree maxi, the hags are the most overrated team in the nfl right now.

And while I am at it, where were all the "preseason matters" people when Burt wouldn't report until the 3rd week of camp? I thought it didn't matter for veterans. Oh snap, did I just go there!!!

That's so 2007

[Maxie the Taxi]

Bulletin Board material...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWgPpHtDw8A

[denverYooper]

Stuntin' is a habit.

You ever seen a Chevy with the butterfly doors?

[Joemailman]

Bulletin Board material...

For the Packers? After that playoff game last year, I sure hope they don't need bulletin board material.

[bobblehead]

For the Packers? After that playoff game last year, I sure hope they don't need bulletin board material.

579 !!!

Should be all the Bulletin Board material you need.

[pbmax]

579 !!!

Should be all the Bulletin Board material you need.

Our former poster could write up the pregame notes for McCarthy.

[Pugger]

Ever since Buluga went down I have doubted we will win against SF. Prior to him I was 50-50. If the oline can give arod some time and if capers has addressed the pistol readoption run game we win. If Oline is solid and capers d blows we might win. If oline is bad and capers blows look the f out we are getting pounded!

This is gonna be an ugly game I'm afraid. :-(

[Pugger]

Who's Burt? Seriously, you might be right. I just can't find an obvious weakness on the hawks right now. I think Peter is an arrogant prick, but he does have a plan and he seems to be following it.

I know it was preseason but why couldn't Wilson and friends score more than 3 points against us even after we took out D starters?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Good point.

[bobblehead]

I know it was preseason but why couldn't Wilson and friends score more than 3 points against us even after we took out D starters?

Parts of that game made me optimistic that if our offense isn't as good as it has been then capers will call a more aggressive game. NOt so much bend but don't break, but actually try and get stops instead of trying to avoid TD's on every play.

[mraynrand]

Parts of that game made me optimistic that if our offense isn't as good as it has been then capers will call a more aggressive game. NOt so much bend but don't break, but actually try and get stops instead of trying to avoid TD's on every play.

we can talk about that more as the week goes on, but I suspect Capers is going to bring pressure to dictate Kap movement. Has to be very wary of the quick inside handoff though... Requires extreme discipline by entire defense (Hear that JJ?)

[CaptainKickass]

If someone's going to take the 9ers down a peg, I predict it will be the Seahawks. Much as I dislike the Peter Carroll, he has put together a fine team, offense and defense.

Pete Carroll (never trust a man with 2 first names) didn't put jack shit together. The person who did that was none other than the man,

the myth,

the legend,

http://www.vinylcheese.com/graphics/john_schneider.jpg

http://www.posters.ws/images/342588/john_schneider.jpg

oh,

woops,

I mean,

former member of the Packers staff - John Schneider:

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID37659/images/100420175110resized_Seawks_General_Manager_John_Sc hneider.jpg

and besides,

Pete's a talentless, classless, cheating, assclown who coaches his players to play dirty and at a minimum - his environment encourages players to use PED's.

He gets zero credit in my book.

[CaptainKickass]

Pete's a talentless, classless, cheating, assclown who coaches his players to play dirty and at a minimum - his environment encourages players to use PED's.

^^ This also gives a whole new meaning to:

Winning is a "habit"

[Maxie the Taxi]

I am still of the opinion that certain if not all of the Packers regulars should have played more in the preseason. I know many here disagree and have made solid arguments against my position. On the other hand, the San Francisco game proved to me that less experimenting and more first team tuning up might have made the difference, especially on defense.

The offense played respectably Monday, especially Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb and company. The OL played decent and better than I expected. But the defense could have benefited from less personnel experimentation and more playing together by the regulars.

McCarthy said it himself when he regretted allowing Burnett to practice with the ones for two days when he could have had McMillian and company take the reps. Also, in a post game interview, a Saints player made the comment that the first game(s) of the season always "sloppy" because "of a lack of reps by the ones."

I have to agree with him. Given the marquee nature of the first game against the 9ers, I would have had the first string secondary playing as a unit a good part of that last preseason game, in fact I would have had them playing as a unit a good part of the time since Burnett went down.

Don't know if it would have made a difference last Sunday. Just my opinion.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think it's a bad take in today's NFL. Sorry but McCarthy doesn't always take this approach in the preseason. Last year they dominated their final two preseason games and then got manhandled at home by San Fran. McCarthy felt the need to do more evaluation. Based on the results he may do this more. This was about the best opener under McCarthy-other than the opener against New Orleans. The guys that played very little were mostly awesome (Rodgers, Cobb, Nelson). In today's game preseason is mostly for evaluation.

[Maxie the Taxi]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I think you're right about certain veteran players not needing a lot of work in preseason...if any at all. On the other hand, when the situation is extraordinary...like the questions about our secondary...I think you need to play people in game situations to get them to play together as a unit. At times Sunday our secondary guys looked lost. They could have used more work together.

[pbmax]

Burnett's availability wasn't in question until Friday. This team is cautious enough with injuries, I am not sure I want Burnett sitting because he might re-injure a hamstring that he has been cleared to practice with.

Outside of questions about Burnett, McMillan and Jennings got a lot of reps in the preseason.

Its a long season and as almost every Super Bowl champion has shown since the playoff expansion, its the team playing well at the end that tends to win trophies.

[swede]

I think it's a bad take in today's NFL. Sorry but McCarthy doesn't always take this approach in the preseason. Last year they dominated their final two preseason games and then got manhandled at home by San Fran. McCarthy felt the need to do more evaluation. Based on the results he may do this more. This was about the best opener under McCarthy-other than the opener against New Orleans. The guys that played very little were mostly awesome (Rodgers, Cobb, Nelson). In today's game preseason is mostly for evaluation.

I guess there is no need to worry about the "winning breeds winning" thing either. If the coach's message is "win your snap, I don't give a f**k about the game!" and everyone knows that personnel and scheme are for evaluation and not winning meaningless games, then starting line players aren't going to worry about preseason records with game one regular season looming.

[Maxie the Taxi]

With the injuries to Brad Jones and Clay (and Stubby's refusal to remove the training table from the locker room) I'm rethinking my strategy about playing regulars more in the preseason. Now we need Mulumba, Palmer and Lattimore to play at a high level so it's a good thing they had the reps in preseason.

Mea culpa.

[ThunderDan]

With the injuries to Brad Jones and Clay (and Stubby's refusal to remove the training table from the locker room) I'm rethinking my strategy about playing regulars more in the preseason. Now we need Mulumba, Palmer and Lattimore to play at a high level so it's a good thing they had the reps in preseason.

Mea culpa.

Hey, we don't allow apologizing on this board. Suck it up and double down on your theory.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Hey, we don't allow apologizing on this board. Suck it up and double down on your theory.

Pay no attention to my previous post. We should play regulars only in preseason so their hamstrings will become stronger.

[ThunderDan]

Pay no attention to my previous post. We should play regulars only in preseason so their hamstrings will become stronger.

Repped!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Winning is a habit, losing is a disease.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN-aCYVVtyo

[Maxie the Taxi]

LOL. One of the greatest sports movies ever. Was that Wally Cox?