Seneca Wallace

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20130902/PKR0101/130902002/Packers-release-QB-B-J-Coleman-sign-Wallace

Guy deserves his own thread

[Pugger]

So what can you guys tell me about him besides the fact that he's short?

[Harlan Huckleby]

So what can you guys tell me about him besides the fact that he's short?

I think he's black

Not so common in GB. Aaron Brooks was a while ago

Hah! The Packers now have two former San Fran QBs to grill. Maybe a trade for Alex Smith in the works?

[swede]

A misty-eyed Ted told everyone how it was his fault that VY failed...he didn't give Vince enough time to learn the position.

Then Seneca Wallace is hired after the preseason is over.

I post how Coleman had improved and will continue to improve. Three minutes later he is cut. Coincidence?

I post how Ted refuses to hire free agents and ten minutes later he hires Seneca Wallace. Coincidence?

No. Ted hates me and he hates black quarterbacks.

Except Seneca Wallace.

[Joemailman]

Wallace decided he didn't want to play in 49ers final preseason game. Harbaugh said he was told by Wallace he was going to retire. Wallace's agent later said He was not retiring. Now Wallace signs with the Packers. If he were a more significant player, I wonder if the 49ers would be charging the Packers with tampering.

[Fritz]

Fun!!!

[Pugger]

Don't tell me we now have another vet QB who can't make up his mind about retiring!! ;-)

[swede]

Waiting for "San Francisco picks up BJ Coleman" announcement...

[Harlan Huckleby]

A misty-eyed Ted told everyone how it was his fault that VY failed...he didn't give Vince enough time to learn the position.

Yes, that is pretty rich.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I really like this move. I would have been fine with Vince. Seneca Wallace best available, and better than BJ or Graham.

[Joemailman]

Fun!!!

Ni kidding!. Who knew that picking up a backup QB would be this interesting?

http://jerseyal.com/GBP/2013/09/02/packers-news-packers-release-coleman-sign-seneca-wallace/


With now two former 49ers quarterbacks on the team, it’s clear GM Ted Thompson and head coach Mike McCarthy are going all-in for an opening day win against the 49ers. Wallace, however, might have additional incentive for wanting beat the 49ers after he ripped coach Jim Harbaugh for telling reporters Wallace had retired from the NFL when he really had not. According to Wallace, he had simply asked for and was granted his release after the quarterback realized he was only brought in to force backup Colt McCoy to take a paycut.

[KYPack]

I was hoping we'd finagle Colt McCoy out of this deal.

Thank God this happened. BJ is about 15 years from being an NFL QB.

[Tony Oday]

I think we need to go with no backup QB.

[pbmax]

Wallace decided he didn't want to play in 49ers final preseason game. Harbaugh said he was told by Wallace he was going to retire. Wallace's agent later said He was not retiring. Now Wallace signs with the Packers. If he were a more significant player, I wonder if the 49ers would be charging the Packers with tampering.

My money is on Harbaugh having trouble with the truth. He still won't admit that WR they just traded to the Chiefs had trouble with their offense and coaches. Reporters had the WR in trouble with the team last year and Harbaugh lashed out. Even after the trade, he refused to admit the pick hadn't worked out.

Wallace has been around long enough to know what was up. I put some stock in his claim that he was there to pressure McCoy into lowering his contract. Same with Packers kickers this camp.

Wallace's agent said he wasn't retiring the day after the news broke, making it seem like the 49ers broke the initial report.

[wist43]

This offseason just gets more and more bizaare.

:?::?:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Seneca has turned himself into a good backup QB. You could do a lot worse. There are some young guys that might interest me more than Tolzien, but what do I know. He's probably better than Coleman.

[Fritz]

I agree with Wist. It's been weird.

[mraynrand]

Guys, guys. It's obvious. Wallace was on a secret mission for Ted all along. Still, Hairball was never going to keep him anyway, as he only likes his own draft picks (B.J. Daniels). In any case, Colt McCoy will probably sink to 3rd on the depth chart since he can't run the offense they designed around Kap. Note to Packer defensive staff: If Daniels comes in the game next week, he will run the ball.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2m
More QB movement ---> RT @nyjets: The Jets have signed QB Brady Quinn and released QB Graham Harrell.

[Joemailman]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2m
More QB movement ---> RT @nyjets: The Jets have signed QB Brady Quinn and released QB Graham Harrell.

When you get dropped for Brady Quinn, it might be time to consider a career change. Or head to Canada.

[red]

TT and M3 have managed to turn our backup QB position into a complete cluster fuck

they cut VY because he doesn't know the system well enough yet. then brings in two guys who know nothing about our playbook or system

[hoosier]

If Graham Harrell were an infielder he would be limited to playing 2nd base.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not sure what people are fretting over. The guy has a career 31 TD to 18 interception rate and has the ability to scramble also. He's played in a similar system--as he played for Mike Holgren in Seattle and then followed Holmgren to Cleveland. It shouldn't take long for him to pick up the system. He's one of the better backup QBs in the NFL, and he's old enough to know that a starting spot is probably not in the cards. In fact, if he hasn't fallen off the map, he's the type of guy that you could carry as a backup for 2-3 years or until you develop a good, young QB to be the backup.

[hoosier]

TT and M3 have managed to turn our backup QB position into a complete cluster fuck

they cut VY because he doesn't know the system well enough yet. then brings in two guys who know nothing about our playbook or system

Wallace played for Holmgren in Seattle, which probably gives him a leg up over VY. And while Young may not have been capable of learning the system in a few weeks, that doesn't mean no one can. Maybe Wallace is a quicker study.

[denverYooper]

I'm not sure what people are fretting over. The guy has a career 31 TD to 18 interception rate and has the ability to scramble also. He's played in a similar system--as he played for Mike Holgren in Seattle and then followed Holmgren to Cleveland. It shouldn't take long for him to pick up the system. He's one of the better backup QBs in the NFL, and he's old enough to know that a starting spot is probably not in the cards. In fact, if he hasn't fallen off the map, he's the type of guy that you could carry as a backup for 2-3 years or until you develop a good, young QB to be the backup.

Nice post. I was just going to go look up his history bc I thought I recalled him being involved with a lot of former GB staff. Ted must have drafted him in Seattle. They picked him up in the 4th round in 2003. TT was VPFO there from 2000-2004.

[pbmax]

I'm not sure what people are fretting over. The guy has a career 31 TD to 18 interception rate and has the ability to scramble also. He's played in a similar system--as he played for Mike Holgren in Seattle and then followed Holmgren to Cleveland. It shouldn't take long for him to pick up the system. He's one of the better backup QBs in the NFL, and he's old enough to know that a starting spot is probably not in the cards. In fact, if he hasn't fallen off the map, he's the type of guy that you could carry as a backup for 2-3 years or until you develop a good, young QB to be the backup.

I think the fretting is over the fact that Thompson and McCarthy's plan has blown up in their face and they are down to a well traveled vet to fill a potentially big spot in the roster.

While I believe Wallace makes more sense than Young, its not that much of a step up. Thompson needs to collect some more QBs in the draft. Is it five in nine years now? Rodgers, Coleman, Flynn, Brohm and Ingle Martin in nine years overall. 2 of those years were Rodgers as Favre's backup.

So in six years of Rodgers starting, three draft picks and two of them might be out of the League.

[Patler]

I'm not sure what people are fretting over. The guy has a career 31 TD to 18 interception rate and has the ability to scramble also. He's played in a similar system--as he played for Mike Holgren in Seattle and then followed Holmgren to Cleveland. It shouldn't take long for him to pick up the system. He's one of the better backup QBs in the NFL, and he's old enough to know that a starting spot is probably not in the cards. In fact, if he hasn't fallen off the map, he's the type of guy that you could carry as a backup for 2-3 years or until you develop a good, young QB to be the backup.

Yup. I like the move. He can also do what you hope your #2 QB can, be an extra pair of eyes for the starter. Look at the game the way a vet does and tell the starter what he sees. Since becoming a starter, AR has never had the advantage of a seasoned vet to talk to during the game.

TT pretty well telegraphed that something was up. The guy will never lie or mislead reporters intentionally, so when asked about Coleman as #2 yesterday he was ultra-evasive, and said they are always looking to upgrade every position. Seemed clear they were working on something.

[Harlan Huckleby]

This offseason just gets more and more bizaare.

:?::?:


I don't see any major ineptness. Graham Harrell was not a bad gamble to make progress. Coleman also was worth a try. Vince Young - he still has something.

I really think the marginal players they tried just fell on the wrong side of the margin.

Picking up Seneca Wallace is a graceful safety net.

Who was your choice to be backup QB? I ask that of any and all whiners.

[MJZiggy]

TT and M3 have managed to turn our backup QB position into a complete cluster fuck

they cut VY because he doesn't know the system well enough yet. then brings in two guys who know nothing about our playbook or system

Maybe it was just a nicer way of saying that they cut VY because he was too stupid... Now they have someone smarter...

[Patler]

Maybe it was just a nicer way of saying that they cut VY because he was too stupid... Now they have someone smarter...

I think that is a big part of it. Harrell seemed to have the smarts, they said he was fantastic in the meeting room and solid in practice. Just couldn't adapt to game speed and apply what he knew. Coleman - I don't think MM liked his decision making. Clearly he didn't make enough progress to suit the staff.

Coleman was worth the risk. It just didn't work out. It doesn't for most low round draft picks.

[red]

well, senecca wallace has been available this whole time

why the hell not bring him in at the start of camp? wasn't he in the CFL before san fran called him last week?

[Old School]

I think we can be too quick to fault TT for not having a capable starter as an emergency QB. We were lucky to have AR follow what's his name. How many teams around the league have a developmental QB capable of stepping in if the starter should go down. How many even have a quality starter. Drafting a developmental QB every year is a crap shoot. We had a run on good ones, but have struck out lately. The good ones get starting jobs elsewhere.

I think Seneca is not all that bad, and about as good as we can get for now. In the meantime, it's hope the O line can perform and light a candle

[HarveyWallbangers]

well, senecca wallace has been available this whole time

why the hell not bring him in at the start of camp? wasn't he in the CFL before san fran called him last week?

I don't think so. As a vet, I think he was hoping the right situation would open up. There were rumors the Raiders wanted to sign him during the offseason, but that never happened. I think he eventually signed with San Fran because he thought he had a legitimate chance to be the backup. When he got there, he felt the 49ers were just using him to get Colt McCoy to take a paycut. I'm not worried about that situation, as Wallace is said to be a great guy.

[digitaldean]

I liked VY because of the scrambling dimension he adds. If we have Wallace as a backup that is forced to start or take over a game, it would be just as limited if VY would be there. There always would be a huge drop off from an MVP QB to their backup. The Kurt Warner, Tom Brady success scenarios are much fewer than the disasters at backup QB. From what was said about VY by scouts is that he freelanced too much. Plus even when he was in Tenn. it was kind of dialed back for him. I wish VY would've made it, but he kind of sealed his own fate.

[wist43]

I don't see any major ineptness. Graham Harrell was not a bad gamble to make progress. Coleman also was worth a try. Vince Young - he still has something.

I really think the marginal players they tried just fell on the wrong side of the margin.

Picking up Seneca Wallace is a graceful safety net.

Who was your choice to be backup QB? I ask that of any and all whiners.

Doesn't matter except to use the spot to develop a guy to either trade or eventually replace Rodgers. Wallace certainly isn't that guy. Coleman or Harrell weren't either, but I find it odd they'd bring in Wallace.

As I said, if Rodgers goes down - we're done for the year.

I suppose if Rodgers goes down for a game or two, they're thinking maybe Wallace gives them a better chance in those games... but I don't like those odds anyway - we're such a QB-centric team, on both sides of the ball, that any game without Rodgers is a likely loss.

In the end, backup QB doesn't matter except in terms of developing a prospect.

[Patler]

well, senecca wallace has been available this whole time

why the hell not bring him in at the start of camp? wasn't he in the CFL before san fran called him last week?

Why would Wallace have even wanted to sign in GB? From his perspective, they had the backup they went with last year, and the young, strong-armed guy they worked with for a year to turn into a capable NFL QB. It sure wouldn't have looked like much of an opportunity to a vet on the outside.

For their part, I think TT and MM hoped things would click for at least one of Harrell or Coleman. It was only when preseason games started, and both Harrell and Coleman looked awful, that it became apparent they needed to look elsewhere.

[mraynrand]

In the end, backup QB doesn't matter except in terms of developing a prospect.

to what end?

[mraynrand]

Why would Wallace have even wanted to sign in GB? From his perspective, they had the backup they went with last year, and the young, strong-armed guy they worked with for a year to turn into a capable NFL QB. It sure wouldn't have looked like much of an opportunity to a vet on the outside.

For their part, I think TT and MM hoped things would click for at least one of Harrell or Coleman. It was only when preseason games started, and both Harrell and Coleman looked awful, that it became apparent they needed to look elsewhere.

It's absurd to think that Seneca would sign with the Packers before his secret mission was completed.

[Patler]

In the end, backup QB doesn't matter except in terms of developing a prospect.

I said the same thing in another thread. The problem is they have run out of prospects for now. Coleman had to be a big disappointment to them.

[Patler]

to what end?

Possible trade, as they did in the past; or to root out the crusty old vet who won't go home, also as they did in the past.

[Harlan Huckleby]

oh ya, and if you are going to sign a creaky vet, better to do it after the final 53 date. Now they can, say, cut Wallace and promote Tolzien without being on hook.

I like the idea that Tolzien & Wallace know each other and can learn a new system together. Might make the tutoring sessions more effective.

[wist43]

I said the same thing in another thread. The problem is they have run out of prospects for now. Coleman had to be a big disappointment to them.

I agree

[Carolina_Packer]

Why would Wallace have even wanted to sign in GB? From his perspective, they had the backup they went with last year, and the young, strong-armed guy they worked with for a year to turn into a capable NFL QB. It sure wouldn't have looked like much of an opportunity to a vet on the outside.

For their part, I think TT and MM hoped things would click for at least one of Harrell or Coleman. It was only when preseason games started, and both Harrell and Coleman looked awful, that it became apparent they needed to look elsewhere.

Good points, Pat. Harrell had been groomed for long enough. He needed to show more on the field, but wasn't up to the task. Coleman also was not able to take advantage of his opportunities. Like others have said, if Rodgers goes down, I don't think anyone expects the Packers not to miss a beat. I think you could say that about most teams losing their top QB. You're only grooming a replacement if they guy is showing signs of retirement or suckage. Wallace could be to Rodgers what Pederson was to Favre.

Wallace was out of football last season, signed by New Orleans in April this year, cut August 19th, picked up by San Fran August 22nd to presumably create some competition with McCoy, and now we signed him after he couldn't beat out Luke McCown (Saints) or Colt McCoy (SF)...good thing Green Bay didn't have anyone with Mc in their last name to compete with. It would have been interesting to have brought in Wallace in the off-season like New Orleans did, but at the time, they still had hopes for Harrell and Coleman.

What a tight-rope it is to walk to get a decent, but not too decent QB to be your backup. You don't want to draft one too high or you're wasting value on a draft pick, and if you discount it too much (a free agent from the CFL who played in a gimmicky college spread offense, and a 7th rounder from a smaller school), then it's possible that neither guy works out. I think TT is right that they should have brought Young in sooner; perhaps after the draft like New Orleans did with Wallace, and let him have the whole off-season to get adjusted. Ah well, I guess our system probably fits Wallace the best, and if he had to come in and play, he might not light it up, but he wouldn't mess the bed either. We may be lucky that it worked out the way it did. Hope he gets splinters in his fingers from the clipboard and hat hair from his baseball cap and we never have to find out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The funny thing is: if we had spent a high draft pick on a developmental QB, the same people that are crying about the backup QB spot would have ripped Thompson for doing it. Harrell was their developmental QB for a couple of years. Then, Coleman. It didn't work out. It happens all over the league. Nothing lost really. Seneca is a good backup. They go back to the drawing board next year (or perhaps Tolzien is that guy now; probably not though). At least, we didn't spend a 4th round pick on QB and then cut him his rookie year (like the Raiders just did with Tyler Wilson).

[Brandon494]

Seneca Wallace is just an older version of Matt Flynn and honestly I'm fine with that.

[pbmax]

The funny thing is: if we had spent a high draft pick on a developmental QB, the same people that are crying about the backup QB spot would have ripped Thompson for doing it. Harrell was their developmental QB for a couple of years. Then, Coleman. It didn't work out. It happens all over the league. Nothing lost really. Seneca is a good backup. They go back to the drawing board next year (or perhaps Tolzien is that guy now; probably not though). At least, we didn't spend a 4th round pick on QB and then cut him his rookie year (like the Raiders just did with Tyler Wilson).

I am not sure what the Packers expected out of Harrell. His arm was limited though it did get better. Coleman as a 7th round pick was raw and was going to take time no matter what.

I think they would be better served by having a slightly higher value backup plus Coleman on the PS for two years and then let it sort itself out. If the higher pick performed like Flynn then for four years you have few worries and time for Coleman to sort himself out.

Would the draft cooperate? Possibly not, but sometime in the last two years there had a be a better prospect that Harrell.

[pbmax]

Dianna Russini ‏@DRussNBC 1h
Just talked to NFL scout: #Jets signing Quinn to help your offense is like having a cold and asking someone with the flu to sneeze on you.

[CaptainKickass]

Seneca Wallace played for quite a while in Holmgren's west coast offense. And played rather well I might add. Not spectacular, but well. I know this because I've seen every Chicken-Hawks game he's ever played in. The terminology differences and playbook "learning curve" should actually be quite minimal for him. He should ramp up quickly.

He used to have legs/wheels comparable to say an older VY. My guess is he's still got more than enough to roll out and/or take off occasionally like AR already does. He's been historically more than reasonably accurate, and sometimes completely spot on, throwing the occasional "wow" pass putting it in the only spot a receiver would have a chance. The Packers receiving talent will make him pretty good to better than he may actually be.

I'm actually quite comfortable with Seneca Wallace as our #2 QB. I was worried for a minute, but now I feel like everything has worked out just fine. If he should be needed, I'm confident he won't throw the game away if he needs to appear mid-game. I'm also reasonably confident he could go at least 2 out of 2 for a 4 game stretch should the rest of the team remain reasonable healthy.

Some highlights to chew on:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Elsegn4Zw

[CaptainKickass]

Also - he does one thing that I think he does/did better than AR does currently. And that 1 thing is the use of the pump-fake.

Also - he'd be excellent on trick plays and/or special teams having previously lined up as a WR on occasion- the man has hands that can catch.

[Bretsky]

Seneca Wallace played for quite a while in Holmgren's west coast offense. And played rather well I might add. Not spectacular, but well. I know this because I've seen every Chicken-Hawks game he's ever played in. The terminology differences and playbook "learning curve" should actually be quite minimal for him. He should ramp up quickly.

He used to have legs/wheels comparable to say an older VY. My guess is he's still got more than enough to roll out and/or take off occasionally like AR already does. He's been historically more than reasonably accurate, and sometimes completely spot on, throwing the occasional "wow" pass putting in the only spot a receiver would have a chance. The Packers receiving talent will make him pretty good to better than he may actually be.

I'm actually quite comfortable with Seneca Wallace as our #2 QB. I was worried for a minute, but now I feel like everything has worked out just fine. If he should be needed, I'm confident he won't throw the game away if he needs to appear mid-game. I'm also reasonable confident he could go at least 2 out of 2 for a 4 game stretch should the rest of the team remain reasonable healthy.

Some highlights to chew on:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Elsegn4Zw


IMO this is a very solid signing; kudos to MM and TT for addressing this

Coleman and Harrell were junk; it's pretty common knowledge that this was Vince Young's first round in this offense and he didn't have enough time to pick it up. It's also pretty well known he wasn't sharp as a cookie so it would probably take VY longer than the average QB to pick up the offense.

So they signed a savvy vet who's familiar with the WC offense. He's a savy vet who is serviceable and could lead this team to a win or two in a pinch

[bobblehead]

A misty-eyed Ted told everyone how it was his fault that VY failed...he didn't give Vince enough time to learn the position.

Then Seneca Wallace is hired after the preseason is over.


You answered your own question. Wallace had all preseason to learn the offense.....just not ours.

[Mazzin]

Have to give credit, where credit is due. Brandon called this in another thread a little earlier this week, and I had thought he retired. Brandon you have some kind of "in" with the team sir? lol

[NewsBruin]

I like this pickup. Wallace played for Iowa State during my Baylor years, and he was pretty talented as a collegiate. He seemed to be good enough to be a middling NFL starter saddled with a subpar roster and someone who could show up in a pinch. I think he may have been on some teams' rosters during coaching transitions and got lost in the shuffle.

I have zero confidence in Vince Young's effectiveness for more than a quarter. "Yeah, but he's a winner..." dissolves before you finish your rookie NFL season and there's 16 games of tape on you (although Cam Newton is impressing me more than I expected). The guy is physically talented but emotionally stunted. Being the starter - in Tennessee! - had Fisher looking for him in the middle of the night praying he was still alive by the morning. After the lockout, he was 6-7 figures in debt after a high-interest short-term loan, which he blamed on his business manager before admitting he may have signed papers that he didn't pay attention to. Then there was the whole "pro day" tryout in Austin that made him look desperate for roster consideration.

I don't expect a lot of maturity out of all players, but I do from a quarterback. It takes a lot of stability and self-discipline to lead 30 or so guys on offense, break down defensive tape, and hone your strengths and weaknesses before the opposition's scouting catches up with you - all while the home fans are telling you how great you are and will buy your drinks until past closing time if you let them.

I've been spoiled with Drew Brees as part of the closest thing I have to a hometown NFL team and RG3 being my college QB, but my standards for QB are practically superhuman and supernatural. A-Rod carried himself like a starter when he could have coasted through his rookie contract and accepted the "I shouldn't turn it on while it's Bert's team" mindset.

An NFL quarterback, especially one who's made it past his rookie season, needs to have his stuff together light-years beyond I ever could. VY would have some super-growing to do before he got a spot on my roster.

[packer4life]

Wallace has knowledge of the WCO from his days in Seattle. His grasp of the playbook will be lightyears ahead of Young's; I don't think we need to worry that he was signed so late, he should be up to speed by week 3.

My question is how exactly is MM's offense deemed "west coast". It seems to me we ran a more pure version of the WCO during our days under Holmgren. MM's playbook seems a lot more vertical with occasional, effective play-action calls. Anyone have a more detailed grasp of MM's offense that could shed a bit more light on just how different our offense has become in comparison to the days of Holmgren.

[Joemailman]

Wallace has knowledge of the WCO from his days in Seattle. His grasp of the playbook will be lightyears ahead of Young's; I don't think we need to worry that he was signed so late, he should be up to speed by week 3.

My question is how exactly is MM's offense deemed "west coast". It seems to me we ran a more pure version of the WCO during our days under Holmgren. MM's playbook seems a lot more vertical with occasional, effective play-action calls. Anyone have a more detailed grasp of MM's offense that could shed a bit more light on just how different our offense has become in comparison to the days of Holmgren.

MM isn't a part of the Holmgren coaching tree. He's part of the Paul Hackett tree. Hackett was a Walsh assistant at SF from 1983-85 before eventually moving on to the University Of Pittsburgh, where MM worked for him. I think the Packers certainly have elements of the WCO in their offense, although Holmgren probably had a more "pure" version of it. When MM started here in 2006, I recall Favre saying he had to learn a lot of new terminology, but it wasn't like they were starting over. I would agree the Packers are a more vertical team under MM than they were under Holmgren, especially since Rodgers has been the QB.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Bill_Walsh_Coaching_Tree.svg/791px-Bill_Walsh_Coaching_Tree.svg.png

[packer4life]

I also wonder what other NFL team runs an offense most similar to ours.

[pbmax]

Andy Reid ran the offense most similar to Holmgren in his time as HC of the Eagles.

Multiple personnel/formations? most similar to New England and New Orleans. McCarthy was running two TEs while everyone was still crediting Belichick for being innovative. Of course being McCarthy, one of those TEs often motioned to the backfield or slot.

Pass/run option and play calling? New Orleans.

[SkinBasket]

I'm not sure what people are fretting over. The guy has a career 31 TD to 18 interception rate and has the ability to scramble also. He's played in a similar system--as he played for Mike Holgren in Seattle and then followed Holmgren to Cleveland. It shouldn't take long for him to pick up the system. He's one of the better backup QBs in the NFL, and he's old enough to know that a starting spot is probably not in the cards. In fact, if he hasn't fallen off the map, he's the type of guy that you could carry as a backup for 2-3 years or until you develop a good, young QB to be the backup.

This, and when/if Rodgers gets injured significantly, this team is fucked no matter who the backup is.

[SkinBasket]

Seneca Wallace is just an older version of Matt Flynn and honestly I'm fine with that.

The same way Brady Quinn is just a younger version of Mike Vick. Sometimes you make so much goddamn sense, it tickles my balls.

[Packers4Glory]

I do like Wallace as a back up. He's a steady guy who can move a good offense if he HAS to. Hopefully he doesn't have to play but if they can get him a base set of plays in the offense they can still win some games till AR is back. Vince has the most upside but the floor is also a lot lower. I'd expect him to be as good as Flynn.

[Pugger]

well, senecca wallace has been available this whole time

why the hell not bring him in at the start of camp? wasn't he in the CFL before san fran called him last week?

Yes, why did they bring in Young instead of Wallace? Young might be the better athlete but Wallace might be the better QB between the ears. Another telling thing is it only took the Jets - of all teams - less than a week to see Harrell isn't an NFL caliber QB. Harrell must have been one of those guys who is great in the lockerroom and at practice but stinks to high heaven in game situations. This has to be the reason why McC stuck with him for almost 3 years.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yes, why did they bring in Young instead of Wallace?


Was Wallace available? Maybe, I forget, but I thought he was on San Fran in early August.

Really, the management thought that either Harrell or Coleman would take a step forward this year. Harrell was backup for 2012. TT made a bad call, but shit happens, this stuff isn't so predictable.

Packers got lucky in the end when Wallace popped up.

[Joemailman]

Was Wallace available? Maybe, I forget, but I thought he was on San Fran in early August.

Really, the management thought that either Harrell or Coleman would take a step forward this year. Harrell was backup for 2012. TT made a bad call, but shit happens, this stuff isn't so predictable.

Packers got lucky in the end when Wallace popped up.

Wallace was signed by New Orleans on August 15 and released on August 19. 49ers then signed him on August 22. But of course, the Packers had already signed Young by then.

[Harlan Huckleby]

TT must have thought Young is better.

If Young had played in the 4th preseason game like he did in the 3rd, he'd be the backup.

It's unlikely that Seneca is much of an upgrade over Young. I am fine with either.


BTW, I wish there was more respect for the specialty position of career QB backup. Guys like Matt Flynn and Scott Tolzien should consider staying with the same team for 5 years in that role, in my opinion. I wish the Packers would find such a guy and stick with them. But of course the player has to accept around $1M per year for five years, and players all dream of the big bucks.

[mraynrand]

TT must have thought Young is better.

If Young had played in the 4th preseason game like he did in the 3rd, he'd be the backup.

It's unlikely that Seneca is much of an upgrade over Young.

At this point, Young is a far better athlete. Live arm, can run effectively. Seneca knows various offenses and can pick up a new one pretty quickly. He is a bright guy on the way downside of his career. He is better than Charlie Batch has been for the last few years for the Steelers, but not by much. If you could put Seneca's brain in Young's skull, you'd have a pretty solid starter.

[Joemailman]

TT must have thought Young is better.

If Young had played in the 4th preseason game like he did in the 3rd, he'd be the backup.

It's unlikely that Seneca is much of an upgrade over Young. I am fine with either.


BTW, I wish there was more respect for the specialty position of career QB backup. Guys like Matt Flynn and Scott Tolzien should consider staying with the same team for 5 years in that role, in my opinion. I wish the Packers would find such a guy and stick with them. But of course the player has to accept around $1M per year for five years, and players all dream of the big bucks.

Up to this point, I don't think TT and MM have had any interest in the veteran QB who is content to be a backup. They've preferred to develop the young guys who hope to parlay success in Green Bay into a starting position somewhere else. Wolf did the same thing, although Wolf's young guys (Brunell, Brooks, Hasselbeck) proved to be better than Thompson's. This year they end up with Wallace only because Harrell and Coleman struck out. I think Rodgers might benefit from having a veteran QB to bounce ideas off of when he comes to the sideline. I doubt TT and MM will alter their approach though.

[Smidgeon]

Seneca Wallace played for quite a while in Holmgren's west coast offense. And played rather well I might add. Not spectacular, but well. I know this because I've seen every Chicken-Hawks game he's ever played in. The terminology differences and playbook "learning curve" should actually be quite minimal for him. He should ramp up quickly.

He used to have legs/wheels comparable to say an older VY. My guess is he's still got more than enough to roll out and/or take off occasionally like AR already does. He's been historically more than reasonably accurate, and sometimes completely spot on, throwing the occasional "wow" pass putting it in the only spot a receiver would have a chance. The Packers receiving talent will make him pretty good to better than he may actually be.

I'm actually quite comfortable with Seneca Wallace as our #2 QB. I was worried for a minute, but now I feel like everything has worked out just fine. If he should be needed, I'm confident he won't throw the game away if he needs to appear mid-game. I'm also reasonably confident he could go at least 2 out of 2 for a 4 game stretch should the rest of the team remain reasonable healthy.

Some highlights to chew on:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Elsegn4Zw

I was at Iowa State during Seneca's final year. I'm interested to see what he has left. I've always been curious about his pro career.

I was at the game when the third highlight of that clip happened. It was unbelievable live and was voted as the number 2 play of college football that year (the number one "play" was two impossible hail marys to go the entire length of the field to win the game).

In the first half of that season, he was the front-running heisman candidate and single handedly had ISU ranked at #9 nationally, the highest they've ever been ranked. Unfortunately, the second half of the season really demonstrated why one man cannot win everything with a bad football team, and they tanked. He might have been a perfect example in college of how a player stands out just because he's faster than everyone else.

[Upnorth]

What do you think of bringing in TebowÉ
Now that you are done laughing, here is why he maybe worth a look,
In college he was a 67% complition thrower, now he is in the 50`s but with our wr`s route running it might fit.
He has a very low turn over ratio, which MM demands fo his qb`s.

I admit he is limited, but is he worse than Wallace. Can MM coach him upÉ

[mraynrand]

Look, don't get carried away with ol' Seneca. He was backing up Clot McCoy in Cleveland after all - and two spaces behind Clot on the depth chart in SF. This is bottom of the barrel stuff. But he probably won't pull a Rubley or throw into quadruple coverage like Coldman did the other night. Teams will put 8 or 9 in the box and dare him to throw, just like they did when he saw limited action in Cleveland and he won't look good, but he won't give games away. He just won't win them.

[Fritz]

He's worse than everyone. He's Terribow.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They've preferred to develop the young guys who hope to parlay success in Green Bay into a starting position somewhere else. Wolf did the same thing, although Wolf's young guys (Brunell, Brooks, Hasselbeck) proved to be better than Thompson's.

This approach works sometimes. But what is the value, really, to the Packers in training QBs for other teams? The draft picks they might get are pretty trivial.

I think a 30-year-old Doug Peterson is more valuable as a backup than a 25-year-old Brooks with no experience.

What I'm looking for is hard to find. A guy who is good and reliable, but not too good. Maybe that is why it doesn't happen more often.

I don't want to see a high draft pick in GB until Rodgers is about 33.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He's worse than everyone. He's Terribow.

That's worth trademarking. Come to think of it, by me, fuck you. My ship has come in!

[mraynrand]

That's worth trademarking. Come to think of it, by me, fuck you. My ship has come in!

good luck marketing that

http://www.westga.edu/~propscat/toy%20boat%202.jpg
http://itthon.ma/kepek/2013/08/225/1610_11377361738.jpg

[Joemailman]

This approach works sometimes. But what is the value, really, to the Packers in training QBs for other teams? The draft picks they might get are pretty trivial.

I think a 30-year-old Doug Peterson is more valuable as a backup than a 25-year-old Brooks with no experience.

What I'm looking for is hard to find. A guy who is good and reliable, but not too good. Maybe that is why it doesn't happen more often.

I don't want to see a high draft pick in GB until Rodgers is about 33.

I think 49ers have the right guy. Colt McCoy is a young smart QB who probably doesn't have the talent to be a starter. He could be there a while. Maybe Flynn will be available next year. No way Raiders will pay him 5 mil if he's going to be a backup.

[mraynrand]

Flynn is like that classic collector car that the neighbor has. It looks great on a Sunny Saturday with the top down and the engine roaring, so you go out and overpay for it. Now it is clogging up a space in your garage, with a tarp over it. You've started storing 'light' boxes and some lawn tools on it, and every time you try to take it out, you have to put in a bunch of work just to get it started, but it runs rough, and wastes gas. Fortunately, a new neighbor just moved in and he has his eye on it...

[Pugger]

http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/story/Packers-chose-Seneca-Wallace-as-backup-Q?blockID=935613&feedID=5069

[KYPack]

This is a great thread.

Brandon, you pulled out a good prediction there, fer sure.

I've always been in the camp of two back-ups. One guy is a battle tested guy who has started, but isn't gonna be the man anywhere. Bruce Gradkowski, David Carr, I dunno, a guy like that. The other one is a kid who seems to have great potential but needs the seasoning and would benefit observing the two pros he's working with. I was never comfy with Harrell and Coleman. I didn't think these guys had the right stuff, but I never thought both of 'em would flame out in the same pre-season. I really never understood the percentage in keeping two young guys. If they both work out, you are gonna lose 'em in FA anyhow.

[Fritz]

Coleman is the bigger disappointment. Obviously the Packers don't think he's even worthy of a PS spot in order to develop.

[Pugger]

And so far BJ is still unemployed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Look, don't get carried away with ol' Seneca. He was backing up Clot McCoy in Cleveland after all - and two spaces behind Clot on the depth chart in SF. This is bottom of the barrel stuff. But he probably won't pull a Rubley or throw into quadruple coverage like Coldman did the other night. Teams will put 8 or 9 in the box and dare him to throw, just like they did when he saw limited action in Cleveland and he won't look good, but he won't give games away. He just won't win them.

He may have been backing up, but like a Doug Flutie his height made GMs think he wasn't an answer long-term. With the advent of the read option QBs, it would be interesting to see if a young Seneca Wallace would have been given more of a chance. Despite this, his stats were always respectable on mostly bad or average teams (save for a couple years in Seattle). Teams with out the receivers Green Bay has.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is a great thread.

Brandon, you pulled out a good prediction there, fer sure.

If he gets cocky, we'll mention Tyrone Walker.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think 49ers have the right guy. Colt McCoy is a young smart QB who probably doesn't have the talent to be a starter. He could be there a while. Maybe Flynn will be available next year. No way Raiders will pay him 5 mil if he's going to be a backup.

Yeah, I don't think McCoy is a complete stiff like Quinn. I think he has a long career as a solid backup.

[Packers4Glory]

I do wish they would have signed young before all the camps. He would have picked it up and been more than capable. He could have won you games. Wallace is the better bet at this time.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I do wish they would have signed young before all the camps. He would have picked it up and been more than capable. He could have won you games. Wallace is the better bet at this time.

I'm not buying that Vince Young was going to change much. By the same token, I thought Vince was good enough to do the job. It seems a safe bet that the Packers chose Wallace's brain over Young's limbs.

[Carolina_Packer]

Wallace was signed by New Orleans on August 15 and released on August 19. 49ers then signed him on August 22. But of course, the Packers had already signed Young by then.

Slight correction, Joe. He was signed by New Orleans in April of this year and released August 19th, then picked up for a cup of coffee by San Fran until final cut-down. So, they could have gotten him before April of this year, and MM indicated they spoke with him back in the spring, but just had a conversation (if I recall correctly from his latest presser). We would have had to trade for him with the Saints to get him. By the time he became available, we were in the midst of the VY experiment.

I wish TT and MM had not put so much stock in Harrell. I like having a backup who has actually gotten some meaningful game action, and been serviceable. In a way the Pack had two developmental QB's so you were never going to know what you really had unless you had to put them out there. Short-term, I feel much more comfortable having someone like Wallace as a backup than either Harrell or Coleman. If you want to lay blame, give it to TT and MM for being too patient in letting Harrell develop and not realizing sooner that he was a smart guy who could practice well, but wilted in game action. They've played with fire long enough. Time to get a real backup, and Wallace is a nice stop-gap that I hope we never need, but am glad we have.

[pbmax]

In a way the Pack had two developmental QB's so you were never going to know what you really had unless you had to put them out there.

I agree with this and would even eliminate the qualifier. It was two developmental prospects. They took a similar risk with Brohm and Flynn, but one was a 2nd round pick and I believe they even had a fourth guy around for a while. But both the developmental guys had a one full offseason/preseason and by the end of it, one had clearly elevated their game. Neither Coleman or Harrell got it done in a game.

I like BPA as much as anyone around here, but by hook or crook, they need either a certified prospect or a vet to go along with the normal value picks like Flynn and Coleman.

[Pugger]

Slight correction, Joe. He was signed by New Orleans in April of this year and released August 19th, then picked up for a cup of coffee by San Fran until final cut-down. So, they could have gotten him before April of this year, and MM indicated they spoke with him back in the spring, but just had a conversation (if I recall correctly from his latest presser). We would have had to trade for him with the Saints to get him. By the time he became available, we were in the midst of the VY experiment.

I wish TT and MM had not put so much stock in Harrell. I like having a backup who has actually gotten some meaningful game action, and been serviceable. In a way the Pack had two developmental QB's so you were never going to know what you really had unless you had to put them out there. Short-term, I feel much more comfortable having someone like Wallace as a backup than either Harrell or Coleman. If you want to lay blame, give it to TT and MM for being too patient in letting Harrell develop and not realizing sooner that he was a smart guy who could practice well, but wilted in game action. They've played with fire long enough. Time to get a real backup, and Wallace is a nice stop-gap that I hope we never need, but am glad we have.

I agree, TT and especially McC stuck with GH way too long. Harrell prob was great in the lockerroom, film room and in practice but not so hot in game situations. I think Harrell had the brains to be the backup but not the physical talent. Harrell could end up being a good QB coach when it is all said and done.

[Fritz]

I agree, TT and especially McC stuck with GH way too long. Harrell prob was great in the lockerroom, film room and in practice but not so hot in game situations. I think Harrell had the brains to be the backup but not the physical talent. Harrell could end up being a good QB coach when it is all said and done.

It's clear that by the time the team signed Young, they knew they were in trouble with both Harrell and Coleman. I wonder which one was a bigger disappointment. I'm guessing Coleman. Did the coaches figure out he had eggs for brains?

[Packers4Glory]

Someone tell me about the PS QB from Wis we signed? any handy scouting reports available?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Someone tell me about the PS QB from Wis we signed? any handy scouting reports available?

Strong mind, weak arm. Competitive spirit.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He was signed by New Orleans in April of this year and released August 19th, then picked up for a cup of coffee by San Fran until final cut-down.

Well, this does make a difference. Young wasn't picked over Seneca as TT was furiously rifling through the neighbor's trash.

[pbmax]

Someone tell me about the PS QB from Wis we signed? any handy scouting reports available?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81ea6495/2011-combine-workout-Scott-Tolzien

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Scott-Tolzien?id=2495425


OVERVIEW
Tolzien possesses the football IQ, toughness and enough ability to find a home in the NFL as a backup but likely does not have the physical tools to develop into a starter. Does a good job moving through his progressions, beating pressure by hitting his outlets and moving the chains with short passes. However, he's less accurate down the field, lacks velocity on deep balls and doesn't possess a clean release to compensate for arm deficiencies. Displays good drop mechanics, but pocket mobility is only adequate, and he isn't a threat to tuck and run. Tolzien should be selected on Day 3.


ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Takes care of the football. Checks down and throws the ball away. Displays the ability to move to his second and third options. Accurate in the short passing game. Gets rid of the ball on time on three-step drops. Flashes the ability to climb the pocket. Outstanding intangibles and leadership skills.

WEAKNESSES Below average size measureables. Lacks the arm strength to drive the ball downfield into tight spots. Deep-ball accuracy is below average. Has a hitch in his delivery at times on intermediate-to-deep pass attempts. Doesn't possess the athleticism to consistently avoid rushers or pick up yards with his feet.

Height: 6' 2"
Hands: 10"
Weight: 212
Arms: 30 1/2"

40 . . . . 20ss. . . . 3 cone. . Vert . . . . . Broad
4.93 . . . 4.12 . . . 6.84 . . . 29½ in . . . 9'8" ft in

[Joemailman]

Strong mind, weak arm. Competitive spirit.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/Ml2out3vinyl.JPG/220px-Ml2out3vinyl.JPG

[Fritz]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81ea6495/2011-combine-workout-Scott-Tolzien

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Scott-Tolzien?id=2495425


OVERVIEW
Tolzien possesses the football IQ, toughness and enough ability to find a home in the NFL as a backup but likely does not have the physical tools to develop into a starter. Does a good job moving through his progressions, beating pressure by hitting his outlets and moving the chains with short passes. However, he's less accurate down the field, lacks velocity on deep balls and doesn't possess a clean release to compensate for arm deficiencies. Displays good drop mechanics, but pocket mobility is only adequate, and he isn't a threat to tuck and run. Tolzien should be selected on Day 3.



ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Takes care of the football. Checks down and throws the ball away. Displays the ability to move to his second and third options. Accurate in the short passing game. Gets rid of the ball on time on three-step drops. Flashes the ability to climb the pocket. Outstanding intangibles and leadership skills.

WEAKNESSES Below average size measureables. Lacks the arm strength to drive the ball downfield into tight spots. Deep-ball accuracy is below average. Has a hitch in his delivery at times on intermediate-to-deep pass attempts. Doesn't possess the athleticism to consistently avoid rushers or pick up yards with his feet.

Height: 6' 2"
Hands: 10"
Weight: 212
Arms: 30 1/2"

40 . . . . 20ss. . . . 3 cone. . Vert . . . . . Broad
4.93 . . . 4.12 . . . 6.84 . . . 29½ in . . . 9'8" ft in


wait...isn't this Graham Harrell??

[Joemailman]

wait...isn't this Graham Harrell??

Those strengths and weaknesses describe a lot of backup QB's. That's why they're backups. I don't think Harrell's decision-making ability in games was ever good enough to overcome his physical deficiencies. That's the difference between him and a guy like Flynn.

[Packers4Glory]

wait...isn't this Graham Harrell??

yeah basically. maybe he's got more room to grow. doubt it. Harrell at least came out of a pass heavy offense in college.

[pbmax]

yeah basically. maybe he's got more room to grow. doubt it. Harrell at least came out of a pass heavy offense in college.

Yes, but Harrell's pass offense was unlike anything he is running in the Pros. Coaches have stolen concepts from the Air Raid, but no one runs it like Texas Tech did. Reads are vastly different. Tolzien's pro style offense at Wisconsin, even with its heavy run emphasis, might have prepared him better for certain aspects of the pro job.

[Pugger]

Tolzien will never be a starter but he seemed to be a heady QB at Madison and his accuracy was considered better than most other ex-WI QBs until Wilson transferred.

[George Cumby]

There aren't 32 people out of 350 million who are capable of being quality NFL QB's. Think about that. We have the best and, now, a pretty decent backup. I hope SW sticks around for a couple of years.

[Pugger]

Wallace was signed by New Orleans on August 15 and released on August 19. 49ers then signed him on August 22. But of course, the Packers had already signed Young by then.

Oh, ok, that makes sense. I feel better with Wallace as our #2 over VY.

[Pugger]

What do you think of bringing in TebowÉ
Now that you are done laughing, here is why he maybe worth a look,
In college he was a 67% complition thrower, now he is in the 50`s but with our wr`s route running it might fit.
He has a very low turn over ratio, which MM demands fo his qb`s.

I admit he is limited, but is he worse than Wallace. Can MM coach him upÉ

Wallace can actually throw the ball with decent accuracy.

[Upnorth]

Wallace can actually throw the ball with decent accuracy.

So the 67% rate in college shows me he can have accuracy, I think his biggest weakness is the sllooww release of his. BUt if we are talking third backup could MM coach him up?

[Fritz]

Heck yeah!

[Patler]

...and our discussion about Wallace before we knew he would have to play!

[woodbuck27]

Wallace can actually throw the ball with decent accuracy.

59.4 %

That's his Career NFL passing percentage. That places him today in the bottom tier or bottom 10... of the top 30 NFL QB's.

Mind you some of the most highly regarded NFL QB's are having an off season in terms of passing percentage.

Andrew Luck @ 58.1 %; Colin Kaepernick @ 57.8 %; Matthew Stafford @ 59.2 % ...

a surprize to everyone... Tom Brady @ 60.7 %