Two extra roster spots available

[Willard]

During the final weeks of the endless roster prediction threads the final 3 positions are always the same: K, P, and LS. Foregone conclusion- each team will have the holy trinity: K, P, LS (except Oakland, of course, who decided that they prefer keeping 2 punters). I know we are in an era of big time specialized skill players, but somewhere on this Earth there must be somebody who can hit both a 50-yd FG consistently and boom a nice punt with hang time and the necessary backspin to pin opposing teams inside the 10 yard line. Is there really no kicking phenom who can handle both? Even more baffling-- the long snapper. Each team keeps 7-8 OL players on their roster, including backup Centers who need to master the shotgun snap. But none of these schleps can also be the designated long snapper? WTH people! Stop the insanity before all rosters of the future include other specialty positions such as DH (Designated Holder), and KTPU (Kickoff Tee Picker-Upper).

Rats, has any team used the same player to kick and punt? Or had a regular ol' Center handle long snapping? That could free up 2 roster spots that could be filled with real football players.

[swede]

Like this, baby. Athaletes at work...except in the off season when they work at the feed mill.

http://www.packers.com/media-center/photo-gallery/Training-Camp-Photos-Then-and-Now/681c9f06-0016-448e-b3cd-c1288719b123#d9df1fba-ad08-4e91-8880-18ccc366d14e

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't understand why a guy can't both be a kicker and punter.

What I'm waiting for his a specialist who can handle both the punting and long snap duties.

[pbmax]

Long snappers are pretty new. Some centers used to long snap but at times a Guard would be better at it. Specialists for this started showing up in the Late 70s. I think I remember the Browns signing their first snapping specialist in the 80s.

Kickers who could punt were common until the 70s. Don Cockroft for the Brown could do it. Steve Cox was the long FG kicker for the Browns in the 80s and he was the regular punter.

[Old School]

With Masthay kicking off, are we headed in the direction of a kicker/punter? Oh wait .... who holds if Masthay kicks FG's. Well, why can't he drop kick? LOL!

If Cobb could punt and drop kick, imagine what would be going thru the D's minds when he lines up for a direct snap.

[KYPack]

There an NFL kicker right now who can handle both jobs. Mike Koenen of the Bucs was the punter, FG kicker, & kick-off man for the Atlanta Falcons. He has a 58 yd field goal to his credit. However, he went 2-8 on FG's and was returned to his punting and kick-off job. The lack of production didn't warrant the extra roster spot.

[mraynrand]

Danny White punted for the Cowpokes. Either you have the skills or you don't. For example, seems like Kickalicious should be able to drop a perfect coffin corner.

[mraynrand]

There an NFL kicker right now who can handle both jobs. Mike Koenen of the Bucs was the punter, FG kicker, & kick-off man for the Atlanta Falcons. He has a 58 yd field goal to his credit. However, he went 2-8 on FG's and was returned to his punting and kick-off job. The lack of production didn't warrant the extra roster spot.

His fan club was called the Koenenites. That fan base was wiped out by followers of Israel Idonije.

[cheesner]

Long snappers are pretty new. Some centers used to long snap but at times a Guard would be better at it. Specialists for this started showing up in the Late 70s. I think I remember the Browns signing their first snapping specialist in the 80s.

Kickers who could punt were common until the 70s. Don Cockroft for the Brown could do it. Steve Cox was the long FG kicker for the Browns in the 80s and he was the regular punter.
Cox and Cockroft. Hmmmm, maybe I have detected a common thread.

It would seem to me a strong leg is a strong leg, whether you are kicking something you are dropping or something stationary. It would also seem to me that punters and kickers have it 'easy'. They really only need to practice one thing. If a kicker wanted to, he could practice both and still have plenty of time in his day for other things.

And if I was a borderline NFL guard or center, I would spend 5 hours per day in the off season practicing my long snaps. What a great way to make an NFL roster by having some flexibility there.

[mraynrand]

If a kicker wanted to, he could practice both and still have plenty of time in his day for other things.

Like Orange Mocha Frappucino!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ny0HT1gQg

[Willard]

Evidence that multi-position players lead to better team performance (and sometimes -- the defeat of global aggression):
in 1995 Punter Craig Hentrich kicked 5 PATs and 3 FGs, leading the Pack to their first Division Title in 23 years....since 1972, a year when DL Dave Pureifory kicked two PATs (of course he missed 2 PATs also, but lets overlook that for the sake of argument). Coincidence?
In 1961 RB Paul Hornung ran for 8 TDs, caught 2 TD passes, but also kicked 15 FGs and 41 PATs. Punting was handled by WRs Boyd Dowler and Max McGee. Result? World Championship, baby!
In 1945 WR Don Hutson caught 4 TDs and kicked 5 PATs in a single quarter!! Also in 1945, the Allies defeated Nazi Germany and Japan. Clearly positional multi-tasking leads to championships and the betterment of Mankind.

[KYPack]

Danny White punted for the Cowpokes. Either you have the skills or you don't. For example, seems like Kickalicious should be able to drop a perfect coffin corner.

All kinds of guys kicked in the "small roster" days. Nobody wants their starting QB or WR getting nailed on a punt block with their leg up like that.

On long snappers, the "problem" is the punt snap. Most starting or back-up C's could easily snap for FG's & XP's. On punts, the specialists focus on that long snap and get it perfect. Many of 'em also cover the field and participate in tackles. A center type usually gives you limited mobility in kick coverage.

[Guiness]

All three of these jobs are specialists from which coaches demand near perfection. Sure, they only practice one thing, but NFL teams don't tolerate any mistakes.

Read some Rob Davis interviews. The amount of time and dedication he spent refining and practicing his craft was incredible, and it paid off.

While kicking and punting might seem like the same thing, I would guess that the motions are different enough to cause 'muscle memory' problems if you do both. I was a competitive badminton player, and my game never went downhill so fast as the summer I started playing tennis. Messed up my swing something fierce, took a couple of months to get it back right.

[Patler]

Longsnappers often came from the ranks of the TE's. Still do (Clark Harris). Not so awful long ago, many still performed as 2nd or 3rd string tight ends. Occasionally, one will still be listed with a position, but rarely if ever plays.

As recently as Doug Pederson's time, it was very common for the backup QB to be the holder. Now it is mostly the punters who hold.

MM said not too long ago, when their punter had no experience as a holder, but one of the QBs did, that it screwed up practices if a position player had to go off and work on FG's. With the punter holding and a dedicated longsnapper, the 3-man group could go off and do their thing while the offense and defense also did theirs.

[Patler]

All three of these jobs are specialists from which coaches demand near perfection. Sure, they only practice one thing, but NFL teams don't tolerate any mistakes.

Read some Rob Davis interviews. The amount of time and dedication he spent refining and practicing his craft was incredible, and it paid off.

While kicking and punting might seem like the same thing, I would guess that the motions are different enough to cause 'muscle memory' problems if you do both. I was a competitive badminton player, and my game never went downhill so fast as the summer I started playing tennis. Messed up my swing something fierce, took a couple of months to get it back right.

For them, the snap is a failure if the laces aren't in the exact position intended, and the punter or holder has to take extra effort to rotate the ball.

[mraynrand]

All kinds of guys kicked in the "small roster" days. Nobody wants their starting QB or WR getting nailed on a punt block with their leg up like that.

ya think? What other QBs kicked in the "small roster" days of Danny White? I don't recall any, and recall few if any kickers who doubled as something else. The point was ability: It seems hard enough to find a placekicker who can put the ball through the uprights 80% of the time, let alone ask him to punt with competency. How about a DT who can also drop into coverage on a back or TE? How many tackles are there in the NFL are there that can do that (let alone ILBs?).

It's a league of specialists.

[Joemailman]

ya think? What other QBs kicked in the "small roster" days of Danny White? I don't recall any, and recall few if any kickers who doubled as something else. The point was ability: It seems hard enough to find a placekicker who can put the ball through the uprights 80% of the time, let alone ask him to punt with competency. How about a DT who can also drop into coverage on a back or TE? How many tackles are there in the NFL are there that can do that (let alone ILBs?).

It's a league of specialists.

Dan Pastorini punted for the Houston Oilers as late as 1976. White punted until 1984. They are the last two I remember. Donny Anderson punted for the Packers through 1972.

[Patler]

ya think? What other QBs kicked in the "small roster" days of Danny White? I don't recall any, and recall few if any kickers who doubled as something else.

Dan Pastorini, for one. But the '70s was the tail end of the time when position players doubled as punters and kickers. It was much more common in the '60s.

[pbmax]

Pat McInally was a WR/Punter for the Bengals in the 70s/80s.