OK in the trenches

[wist43]

Dom the moron played comparatively little 2-4 during this game, and consequently our defense played them tough on the LOS. Was very surprised that Dom didn't play 1-5 for 60 minutes ;)

Our OL held up as well as could be expected. That's as good a game as I could expect them to play.

I don't expect Dom to keep pace - he wants to play small and passive... but this game at least showed that he does realize he has some defensive linemen on the roster.

The back end was a typical Dom Capers mess, but hey... baby steps ;)

[George Cumby]

This is definitively a good sign that you are not apoplectic about this loss :lol:

[wist43]

This is definitively a good sign that you are not apoplectic about this loss :lol:

I expected a loss... I expected domination, if not a blowout, so the results that we got were much better than I expected.

Dom is an absolute disaster as DC though - the wide open receivers he gives to opponents will be a constant all season. I'm still hopeful that he will be fired sooner rather than later, but at least the team showed that they can play tough in the trenches.

I don't expect Dom to make a habit of it though... he wants to play as small and soft as possible - I assume he just made an exception for this game b/c of how his defense was beat up and pushed around by the Niners last year.

He'll resume his 2-4 base next week I'm sure.

[steve823]

Dom the moron played comparatively little 2-4 during this game, and consequently our defense played them tough on the LOS. Was very surprised that Dom didn't play 1-5 for 60 minutes ;)

Our OL held up as well as could be expected. That's as good a game as I could expect them to play.

I don't expect Dom to keep pace - he wants to play small and passive... but this game at least showed that he does realize he has some defensive linemen on the roster.

The back end was a typical Dom Capers mess, but hey... baby steps ;)

So was losing Hayward and Burnett doms fault too? Capers can call what he wants but when tramon and both our safeties play like practice squad players you can't do much. They didn't execute.

On a side note, jolly REALLY makes a difference. Didn't think he'd be this good so soon

[pbmax]

We'll get a snap count from McGinn in a couple days but I think they played a considerable amount of 2-4 nickel and it was highly effective at times. The pass defense behind it not so much.

[Bossman641]

We'll get a snap count from McGinn in a couple days but I think they played a considerable amount of 2-4 nickel and it was highly effective at times. The pass defense behind it not so much.

Ding ding ding.

[Fritz]

I expected a loss... I expected domination, if not a blowout, so the results that we got were much better than I expected.

Dom is an absolute disaster as DC though - the wide open receivers he gives to opponents will be a constant all season. I'm still hopeful that he will be fired sooner rather than later, but at least the team showed that they can play tough in the trenches.

I don't expect Dom to make a habit of it though... he wants to play as small and soft as possible - I assume he just made an exception for this game b/c of how his defense was beat up and pushed around by the Niners last year.

He'll resume his 2-4 base next week I'm sure.


Yes, Capers deliberately wants to play the smallest, softest players and schemes.

You have zero credibility with statements like that. Zero.

You can say his scheme is ineffective. You can argue that he needs to blitz more, or play more down lineman, or whatever. But your insistence that Capers simply wants to play soft players and schemes reveals much about you and sheds no light on Capers.

And besides, you have been crying about the lack of stoutness up front, and after a pretty stout game up front, you simply decide that it didn't really count - next week he'll go back . . .

SF was better yesterday, especially in the last six and a half minutes. McMillan and wife were awful. Just awful. Burnett's presence was glaringly obvious.

I think TT must take some blame. He hasn't found a complement for Burnett, nor has he found the depth.

[Upnorth]

I don't know how much Jolly spelled Raji (or if someone else was substituted) but he made our d line look much better against a top three oline.
On offense baktiari was awesome for his first start, Sitton and eds not so much. I keep seeing eds push Mrs suh on his back and wonder 'where did that guy go?'

[pbmax]

Jolly played a lot of base for Wilson when they wanted to go beefy. They also played a lot of Eagle Oakie where they were shifting the front to strength. 49ers didn't like it because whenever they did it, they motioned someone to get it reversed. So Dom's tape review did yield some nuggets.

[denverYooper]

Jolly played a lot of base for Wilson when they wanted to go beefy. They also played a lot of Eagle Oakie where they were shifting the front to strength. 49ers didn't like it because whenever they did it, they motioned someone to get it reversed. So Dom's tape review did yield some nuggets.

I saw Clay in the middle a few times and that usually seemed to throw the niners a bit.

[3irty1]

Dom had them puzzled enough to burn a couple of timeouts. Very talented big men on this D.

[pbmax]

I know, thread jack here, but maybe we could send Collins for experimental treatments in Germany like Kobe and Peyton?

[run pMc]

I think TT must take some blame. He hasn't found a complement for Burnett, nor has he found the depth.

+1

[mraynrand]

I saw Clay in the middle a few times and that usually seemed to throw the niners a bit.

Especially on that beautiful quick inside move that had the guard blocking air

[Cheesehead Craig]

DL great vs the run, but needed a bit more pass rush. Although perhaps they were playing more of containing Kap's running and making him beat them with his arm.

[Upnorth]

DL great vs the run, but needed a bit more pass rush. Although perhaps they were playing more of containing Kap's running and making him beat them with his arm.

I hope that is how they played it because if that was our pass rush yikes
It looked like perry tried a few times and was shut down

[Harlan Huckleby]

I know, thread jack here, but maybe we could send Collins for experimental treatments in Germany like Kobe and Peyton?

just fuse, baby, fuse

[wist43]

So was losing Hayward and Burnett doms fault too? Capers can call what he wants but when tramon and both our safeties play like practice squad players you can't do much. They didn't execute.

On a side note, jolly REALLY makes a difference. Didn't think he'd be this good so soon

Yes, losing anyone to injury is Dom's fault - the fumes from his hair is enough to make anyone light headed ;)

[mraynrand]

I hope that is how they played it because if that was our pass rush yikes
It looked like perry tried a few times and was shut down

You have to think the threat to run has every pass rusher on his heels a bit. You don't want to give up contain and surrender the big run. Still, Jones, Perry and Neal were pretty ineffective (Neal did have on nice inside burst, but the ball was away pretty fast)

[wist43]

Yes, Capers deliberately wants to play the smallest, softest players and schemes.

You have zero credibility with statements like that. Zero.

You can say his scheme is ineffective. You can argue that he needs to blitz more, or play more down lineman, or whatever. But your insistence that Capers simply wants to play soft players and schemes reveals much about you and sheds no light on Capers.

And besides, you have been crying about the lack of stoutness up front, and after a pretty stout game up front, you simply decide that it didn't really count - next week he'll go back . . .

SF was better yesterday, especially in the last six and a half minutes. McMillan and wife were awful. Just awful. Burnett's presence was glaringly obvious.

I think TT must take some blame. He hasn't found a complement for Burnett, nor has he found the depth.

I'm being somewhat facetious Fritz - sarcasm, get it?? I hate how Capers runs his defense, even though I think he has all the ability in the world to be one of the best in the business. I think he can dial up pressure with the best of them - but then turns around and rushes 3, or decides to let receivers run loose everywhere in the secondary - it's maddening to watch.

And how could McMillan and Wife be anything but awful - Rock Hudson was full-on 'light in the loafers', and Susan Saint James's voice was an octive lower than his!!! Just an odd pairing... even though she was somewhat of a babe :)

[wist43]

Dom had them puzzled enough to burn a couple of timeouts. Very talented big men on this D.

I think Jolly is the straw that stirs the drink - always loved Jolly as a player. He brings a toughness that has been lacking.

We were, in fact, very good up front yesterday - I found that very encouraging. Of course the mess in the back end is another long running failure of Capers that isn't likely to be fixed any time soon.

[mraynrand]

I think Jolly is the straw that stirs the drink - always loved Jolly as a player. He brings a toughness that has been lacking.

His teammates love him for it, apparently. Shoulda let them defend that 4th and 1-2 near the goal - just to see if they could do it.

[wist43]

We'll get a snap count from McGinn in a couple days but I think they played a considerable amount of 2-4 nickel and it was highly effective at times. The pass defense behind it not so much.

He played a bit of 2-4, but not anything like he has previously - and, amazingly, SF didn't try to run against it. 3rd and 10 against that 2-4 is a plausible run down. Of course our secondary can't cover anyone, so I suppose the path of least resistance yesterday was thru the air.

I think Boldin is still open for business.

Still, Capers did not go into a 2-4 on 3rd and 6, or 2nd and 8 like he has heretofore been want to do - that speaks to 'a lesson learned' to some extent.

If he reverts to his old ways next week, then it will show that a leopard really doesn't change its spots. I have zero faith in Capers - and for good reason. We have record setting futility to indict him with.

[wist43]

His teammates love him for it, apparently. Shoulda let them defend that 4th and 1-2 near the goal - just to see if they could do it.

Giving them another down was moronic - I'm sure MM will defend it in his presser, but as soon as he did it, I was screaming at the TV. Stupid.

You've forced 4th down, thank your lucky stars you held them, and let the decision be theirs - if they go for it, hunker down and slug it out. If they kick the FG, you held and call it a win.

Giving them another down, and space to operate was idiotic.

[mraynrand]

Giving them another down was moronic - I'm sure MM will defend it in his presser, but as soon as he did it, I was screaming at the TV. Stupid.

You've forced 4th down, thank your lucky stars you held them, and let the decision be theirs - if they go for it, hunker down and slug it out. If they kick the FG, you held and call it a win.

Giving them another down, and space to operate was idiotic.

you can lose a team over a play like that. Hopefully MM will say something like "Sometimes you make the wrong call, I wish I had that one back"

[3irty1]

I think Jolly is the straw that stirs the drink - always loved Jolly as a player. He brings a toughness that has been lacking.

We were, in fact, very good up front yesterday - I found that very encouraging. Of course the mess in the back end is another long running failure of Capers that isn't likely to be fixed any time soon.

Hard to disagree with that. He seems to bring the hustle, intensity, and attitude we relied on Bishop for. He's a tone setter and makes everyone around him better.

I'm not that discouraged by the back-end play. They were 2011 level of leaky for about 2 plays in a row on one particularly uncontested Boldin catch followed by the Kendal Hunter run but on the day they were much better than any 2011 game. This reminded me of the Indy game last year if you replace Wayne with Boldin. Those crafty vet types are getting open at will in the middle of the D, winning some slap fights with slot corners and safeties to get open at will.

Some of those were just great throws/catches though. One that stands out in particular was a great throw just over Hyde who was in perfect position and into VD's hands. No defending that level of execution. All in all I blame the special teams and offense for losing the game, not Capers or the defense. They gave up a game and a half worth of yards in a game and a half worth of minutes. The offense had terrible starting positions throughout but almost didn't participate in the battle for field position. They either quickly scored outright or went 3 and out. Plus they had turnovers.

[pbmax]

I think they have played contain on Kap since he torched them scrambling in the first half of the playoff game.

I think they need to send a blitzer to hurry up that pocket because giving him that kinda time back there is tough on the DBs.

[wist43]

We'll get a snap count from McGinn in a couple days but I think they played a considerable amount of 2-4 nickel and it was highly effective at times. The pass defense behind it not so much.

Another comment on the 2-4, as we discussed during the offseason - if you put enough size on the field, and show that you may, or may not be filling gaps with rovers - rovers with size - then the 2-4 can be a different animal.

If your '4', in the 2-4 are your outside rush LB's, and Jones and Hawk?? Forget it, it's a useless front. Sending your outside guys flying up the field, undisciplined, unconcerned with containing the pocket, then backed up by smallish LB's that aren't very good to begin with?? Yeah, that will give you mess we had last year.

In the end, it's still another loss... we gave up 500 yds of offense, and got killed in TOP 38:35 to 21:25.

We're a 2nd tier team compared to the Niners, and they proved it again. Packer fans can hang their hat on moral victories, but a loss is a loss, and we still don't measure up to the Niners. That's the bottom line.

[pbmax]

you can lose a team over a play like that. Hopefully MM will say something like "Sometimes you make the wrong call, I wish I had that one back"

That I am not sure about. Because the other side of that equation is Harbaugh who despite Harlan's protests seems at least even odds to go for it. Even if you stop them, its a terrible field position situation. No points and possession deep in your own territory is almost as likely to yield 3 points as them just kicking it. Huge incentive to go for it for the 49ers.

I think they could have stopped them, but then its up to the O to reverse that field position disadvantage.

I think the players can see each side.

[wist43]

I think they have played contain on Kap since he torched them scrambling in the first half of the playoff game.

I think they need to send a blitzer to hurry up that pocket because giving him that kinda time back there is tough on the DBs.

I agree... just about any QB can pick a defense apart given enough time and a comfortable pocket.

If you're not blitizing and playing coverage - but your coverage sucks?? Time to rethink that a bit, and step on the pass rush gas pedal. Hopefully force the quick throw, make the tackle, and get off the field.

[Teamcheez1]

Another comment on the 2-4, as we discussed during the offseason - if you put enough size on the field, and show that you may, or may not be filling gaps with rovers - rovers with size - then the 2-4 can be a different animal.

If your '4', in the 2-4 are your outside rush LB's, and Jones and Hawk?? Forget it, it's a useless front. Sending your outside guys flying up the field, undisciplined, unconcerned with containing the pocket, then backed up by smallish LB's that aren't very good to begin with?? Yeah, that will give you mess we had last year.

In the end, it's still another loss... we gave up 500 yds of offense, and got killed in TOP 38:35 to 21:25.

We're a 2nd tier team compared to the Niners, and they proved it again. Packer fans can hang their hat on moral victories, but a loss is a loss, and we still don't measure up to the Niners. That's the bottom line.

We didn't play well enough to win yesterday with some mistakes and blown coverage. Erase the two turnovers, etc. and we may very well have won this game regardless of the 49ers offense. 2nd tier team? You might want to rethink that. We lost by 6 points.

[mraynrand]

I think they have played contain on Kap since he torched them scrambling in the first half of the playoff game.

I think they need to send a blitzer to hurry up that pocket because giving him that kinda time back there is tough on the DBs.

I thought they would do that more. When they did it Matthews gave up contain!!!

[wist43]

We didn't play well enough to win yesterday with some mistakes and blown coverage. Erase the two turnovers, etc. and we may very well have won this game regardless of the 49ers offense. 2nd tier team? You might want to rethink that. We lost by 6 points.

We played tough... was very surprised we hung in there, and even took the lead in the 4th quarter.

Still, when the game was on the line, and they needed to make plays - they did, and we didn't. They're simply a better team than we are, and they've proven it 3 different ways in the last 12 months.

As I said though, I was genuinely surprised that we hung with them most of the game. Perhaps we're not too far below them, but they've proven 3 times in the last year, that they are a better team than we are.

[pbmax]

I thought they would do that more. When they did it Matthews gave up contain!!!

Yeah, you have to have someone else out there like a T-E stunt to force on the edge. I will say this, the young DTs in nickel (Jones and Neal) have enough speed to make that work. They covered significant ground. On one play when Kap (I think it was QB scramble) he was pursued by a D lineman who chased well enough to force Kap wide enough that help had time to arrive. Could have been catastrophic, went for 5 or 6 instead.

[mraynrand]

That I am not sure about. Because the other side of that equation is Harbaugh who despite Harlan's protests seems at least even odds to go for it. Even if you stop them, its a terrible field position situation. No points and possession deep in your own territory is almost as likely to yield 3 points as them just kicking it. Huge incentive to go for it for the 49ers.

I think they could have stopped them, but then its up to the O to reverse that field position disadvantage.

I think the players can see each side.

I think Hairball was 90% certain to go for it. The field position argument is valid.

[sharpe1027]

Even if they are playing contain on the rush they still need to eventually collapse the pocket. It liked like all rushers were completely sitting back waiting. Kap had a full yard between him and the nearest rusher at times.

[mraynrand]

Even if they are playing contain on the rush they still need to eventually collapse the pocket. It liked like all rushers were completely sitting back waiting.

I agree - and that's why you have to bring an extra guy here and there. I really thought Capers would do more of that. It's very likely that he fully intended to, but gave it up because to do so would have exposed the back ups to even more difficult single coverages.

[MJZiggy]

I think Jolly is the straw that stirs the drink - always loved Jolly as a player. He brings a toughness that has been lacking.

We were, in fact, very good up front yesterday - I found that very encouraging. Of course the mess in the back end is another long running failure of Capers that isn't likely to be fixed any time soon.

The mess in the back is a long-running failure? Really? Are you referring to the secondary that a few short years ago was considered among the best in the league? That long-running back end failure-of-Capers mess?

[swede]

You have to think the threat to run has every pass rusher on his heels a bit. You don't want to give up contain and surrender the big run. Still, Jones, Perry and Neal were pretty ineffective (Neal did have on nice inside burst, but the ball was away pretty fast)

I just wonder, if you were to put a stopwatch to it, how many seconds elapsed between snap and throw when Kaep stayed in the pocket. Often seemed like the ball was out of there in less than three seconds. So how do receivers get open over and over again within three seconds?

Given the fact that we can't rush aggressively against Kaepernick, and let's face it--the kid can throw on the move, throw from a pocket, and run like a deer--we count on the d backs to do better in order for us to win the next time we play.

This was not on the D line period.

[mraynrand]

I just wonder, if you were to put a stopwatch to it, how many seconds elapsed between snap and throw when Kaep stayed in the pocket. Often seemed like the ball was out of there in less than three seconds. So how do receivers get open over and over again within three seconds?

Given the fact that we can't rush aggressively against Kaepernick, and let's face it--the kid can throw on the move, throw from a pocket, and run like a deer--we count on the d backs to do better in order for us to win the next time we play.

This was not on the D line period.

I'm inclined to agree. I was disappointed in D. Jones and Perry (OLB), and Neal was just OK I think. But listening to some of their comments after the game you could tell they were coached up to contain, contain. And there were several plays where that was really important - they kept Kap in check. I think the blame falls in order:

Secondary
Offensive 3 and outs
TOs (Finley, Lacey)
Not-so-special Teams
D-line/Perry Neal
George W. Bush (shouldn't he always be blamed, as a matter of course?)

[red]

d-line looked great. and jolly proved that not only does he belong on this team, but he might be the most important cog on the line

o-line looked good in pass protection. a-rod not only was kept upright, but he also had a good amount of time in the pocket at times. run protection on the other hand sucked. put sitton back to RG, and replace EDS and Lang. its amazing that a rookie 4th rounder and a second year undrafted player playing the two most important positions, look like our 2 best o-lineman at this point

[pbmax]

Sitton will adjust. Worried about EDS in run game.

[sharpe1027]

I'm inclined to agree. I was disappointed in D. Jones and Perry (OLB), and Neal was just OK I think. But listening to some of their comments after the game you could tell they were coached up to contain, contain. And there were several plays where that was really important - they kept Kap in check. I think the blame falls in order:

Secondary
Offensive 3 and outs
TOs (Finley, Lacey)
Not-so-special Teams
D-line/Perry Neal
George W. Bush (shouldn't he always be blamed, as a matter of course?)
Or Obama. One of the two is always to blame, but seldom both. And don't forget to blame Slocum.

[Pugger]

d-line looked great. and jolly proved that not only does he belong on this team, but he might be the most important cog on the line

o-line looked good in pass protection. a-rod not only was kept upright, but he also had a good amount of time in the pocket at times. run protection on the other hand sucked. put sitton back to RG, and replace EDS and Lang. its amazing that a rookie 4th rounder and a second year undrafted player playing the two most important positions, look like our 2 best o-lineman at this point

Yes, the O line played better than I thought they would. Unfortunately they tanked near the end of the game and we didn't go back and reclaim the lead.

[Pugger]

Or Obama. One of the two is always to blame, but seldom both. And don't forget to blame Slocum.

Slocum had a real doozy yesterday. When we tied it before the end of the half he had Masthay squib kick the damn ball with the wind at his back and the Niners got great field position. Hell, they had an opporunity to try a Hail Mary in the waning moments but we knocked it away. Tim was kicking the ball thru the back of the end zone all afternoon but that genius decided to have Tim change his approach. :evil:

[RashanGary]

Let's remember too, we just played a very good, veteran team. They have one of the most experienced defenses in the NFL and talented. And their OL is peaking too.

As the season goes on, the Packers usually get better.

All in all, I thought that was a pretty good game. We can hang with anyone. Now we just need to improve each week and we're in the SB hunt.



I'm certainly not happy that we lost. I was very disappointed. At the same time, there were a lot of positives to take from that game. Clay looks as good or better than he's ever been. AR looked like a friggin stud. Nelson and Cobb both looked really good. We have an excellent punter. Lacy's three best runs were called back with holds, but he looked better than what we've had.

Getting Hayward back in the slot is going to be big for us. Burnett too. Those are our two best interior DB's and they were out.



I don't think my opinion changed very much after this game. We're a playoff team with growth potential to be a SB team. That's about what I expected.

[Freak Out]

This team can/will get better as the season progresses. Lets goooooooo!

[HarveyWallbangers]

JSO or GBPG said that EDS has a solid game and the OTs were solid, but Sitton and Lang had bad games.

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 42m
John Dorsey cut former #Packers center Tommie Draheim from practice squad today and signed former Packers DT Jordan Miller to PS #Packers

They still looking for a center prospect you think? What was Draheim's profile?

[mraynrand]

This team can/will get better as the season progresses. Lets goooooooo!


BRING BLACK MOBB!!!

[KYPack]

BRING BLACK MOBB!!!

He's in the Favre thread.

1st post.

[Joemailman]

JSO or GBPG said that EDS has a solid game and the OTs were solid, but Sitton and Lang had bad games.

Sitton will bounce back. But I don't think Lang has played well all summer. He's becoming a real concern.

[bobblehead]

We played tough... was very surprised we hung in there, and even took the lead in the 4th quarter.

Still, when the game was on the line, and they needed to make plays - they did, and we didn't. They're simply a better team than we are, and they've proven it 3 different ways in the last 12 months.

As I said though, I was genuinely surprised that we hung with them most of the game. Perhaps we're not too far below them, but they've proven 3 times in the last year, that they are a better team than we are.

I can't disagree. BUT...we have closed the gap each time (imo). 4 months from now in the playoffs I can't say for certain that they will be the better team, and that gives me hope.

[swede]

JSO or GBPG said that EDS has a solid game and the OTs were solid, but Sitton and Lang had bad games.

I've got a source I trust who gets NFL feed and he says EDS sucked in the run game, failed his run block almost every time. He was a big part of the first half running woes.

[Joemailman]

I've got a source I trust who gets NFL feed and he says EDS sucked in the run game, failed his run block almost every time. He was a big part of the first half running woes.

McGinn said EDS "was fine". Maybe he got better as the game wore on, but on Lacy's 1st four carries that netted 1 yard total, I thought he was terrible.

[pbmax]

I've got a source I trust who gets NFL feed and he says EDS sucked in the run game, failed his run block almost every time. He was a big part of the first half running woes.

Get him signed up!

Or is it someone we already know? Hmmmmmmmm.....

[3irty1]

McGinn's a tard, EDS was easily the worst lineman on the field Sunday even with Sitton's problems and not just the run game. Watching again I saw two more lookout blocks that allowed easy pressure up the middle. I felt Lang played excellent considering who he was playing next to. Worst game of EDS's NFL career. I was very much a fan of his play last year.

[Iron Mike]

I wanna say someone mentioned in the gameday thread that EDS would routinely snap the ball a few seconds after raising his head, so that SF DLinemen could easily anticipate the snap, and jump into the gap.

[billy_oliver880]

I wanna say someone mentioned in the gameday thread that EDS would routinely snap the ball a few seconds after raising his head, so that SF DLinemen could easily anticipate the snap, and jump into the gap.

Seems like at one point EDS did a fake snap. Lifting his head quick as Rodgers was doing his hard count. Looks like refs warned him after the play to knock it off. I can't remember exactly when it happened but I didn't notice it happen again.

[mraynrand]

I wanna say someone mentioned in the gameday thread that EDS would routinely snap the ball a few seconds after raising his head, so that SF DLinemen could easily anticipate the snap, and jump into the gap.


go ahead, say it.

[Fritz]

go ahead, say it.

"I wanna say someone mentioned in the gameday thread that EDS would routinely snap the ball a few seconds after raising his head..."

First, given his initials I didn't think he could raise his head.

Secondly, does this all mean that the Packer offensive line is suffering from EDS???

[Guiness]

Packers brought in a center to look at yesterday, Tyler Horn. nfl.com says he's a Texan, can't find anything else on him. Looks like he might be a UDFA who was cut?

In other news, the Giants brought in Aaron Maybin for a look-see after he didn't make the Jets this fall!