Packers will have tough cap decisions to make

[SnakeLH2006]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-will-have-tough-cap-decisions-to-make-b9997437z1-223720151.html

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Finley for the money and attitude and lifestyle can go. Shields is ok but Hayward is better and Snakey loves some Devon House action. Jolly is old by NFL standards but man that dude can play and change games via gameday or on season averages stopping the run/deflecting passes, etc. Resign Jolly on the cheap...no one is gonna give a dude facing expulsion from the NFL on his past drug history a big contract....but hey he's a good dude/teammate/gamechanger.

Personally, Snake doesn't think that anyone in the NFL knows the cap more than the Packers..go from Russ Ball to current regime. ARod and CMatty got paid at less than premium deals considering how valuable they are to the team..No one passes like Arod...No one pass rushes like CMatty. We locked them up on subpar market deals. Great job. Raji is pretty deece but no way I'd pay him $10 million for a lazy fat guy smoking pot. I'd rather pay a druggie like Jolly $4 million that actually makes a HUGE diff in leadership and run D.

I trust TT and the cap logic with the Packers..best in the business in the NFL. We all fuck up now and then...aka Jeff Saturday, but that didn't kill our cap..In fact I was pissed when Cullen Jenkins got a "cheap" deal last year at 5 years 25 million with Philly..now he got cut and plays for a shit team...TT knows his shit. I have 100% faith in the Packers front office for evaluating talent and contracts.

[King Friday]

Thompson rebuilds through the draft, where the majority of players are incredibly cheap against the cap. He has wisely avoided paying big money contracts to easily replaceable guys or guys who really don't deserve the cash for what they will offer in the future. I'm not all that concerned with cap space...Thompson never uses cap space anyway. If we have $20M in cap space, it sits unused.

Sure, Seattle and SF are in a great position with super cheap QBs...but those guys will be $15M+ guys sooner than later, and with all the other talent already on those teams they are the ones who will truly be facing the massive cap difficulty in the near future. Green Bay has already locked up their premium players to deals that will look favorable 3-4 years from now. They have a lot of money currently tied up in Finley and Williams...guys who I think can be replaced with comparable production for much less money.

[packer4life]

Agree. I think you for sure either jettison Tramon or get his cap number WAY down. He signed his lucrative contract when he was actually a shut down corner. Now, I don't see him as any better than Shields.

Snake, Raji has way more upside than Jolly. Jolly might be an anchor this season, but I think you put more eggs in Raji's basket, and hope Jolly will sign a 2 year deal for around $5 million. Jolly should show the packers a little bit of loyalty and take that deal, seeing that we put up with his incarcerated ass for 3 years.

Either way you look at it, decisions loom. It would make me feel better if that 2011 draft class was stronger. Sherrod is going to need to make a miracle recovery for us to benefit even marginally from that draft. In TT we (usually) trust.

[Joemailman]

Raji or Pickett will be a Packer next year, but probably not both. I think Tramon will be gone, unless he wants to make a Hawk-like concession. I think they sign Finley, unless Quarless or Bostic make him look expendable before the season is over. Not likely.

[run pMc]

It would make me feel better if that 2011 draft class was stronger.

+1

The 2011 class hasn't produced a lot compared to some of TT's other drafts. I wouldn't be surprised if he does a lot of trading down for extra picks to get more/improved competition at spots (cough, Safety). Finley is talented but unless he has a monster year I don't see anyone paying him $8M/yr, and I think he's gone. I could see them renegotiating Tramon (add a year, lower the cap #, etc.) if they can't work things out with Sam...but I can't see them keeping both at $7M+/year, not with House, Heyward, etc. behind them. I'll be especially interested to see how the WR corps shakes out -- Jones is a FA after the season, and then Jordy & Cobb. Oddly, I'm not that concerned about the DL; probably because of all the competition/quality they have with additions of D.Jones and J.Jolly. I think they'll fish around with Raji, but will sign elsewhere. How much do teams spend on 3-4 DLinemen?

Article seems like fearmongering -- every team has its superstars and will have to make tough decisions. Young players have to step up...that's how it goes.

IND, WAS, SF, SEA and CAR have successful QBs on rookie contracts, but they are going to want to get paid and that will impact their rosters. A team like ARI, JAX, or OAK is going to show interest in them, and if they get into the playoffs they will want to be paid like a Top 5-10 QB. DET has a mess with all the FA signings, and they'll have to figure out Suh's contract (and Fairley's the next year IIRC). GB isn't the only team with roster/cap decisions. Frankly, I think they're in ok shape compared with a lot of teams. As long as they have Rodgers and give him guys to throw to they'll be competitive.

I wonder, with the salary cap not expected to increase much over the next few seasons, if we will start to see some flattening of salary increases. Every year there's a new "highest paid at their position" signing. At some point that's gotta ease up or we're going to have teams with 2-3 very high paid players and everyone else on rookie/vet minimum contracts. (Seems like that's already here.) Maybe it will take some team to catch lightning in a bottle and win the SB for everyone to follow suit.

[Bretsky]

Raji or Pickett will be a Packer next year, but probably not both. I think Tramon will be gone, unless he wants to make a Hawk-like concession. I think they sign Finley, unless Quarless or Bostic make him look expendable before the season is over. Not likely.

Agree on all counts
I think James Jones also heads to other pastures
I hope we can keep Jordy Nelson long term; he's a lot better route runner and JJ

[Bretsky]

Agree. I think you for sure either jettison Tramon or get his cap number WAY down. He signed his lucrative contract when he was actually a shut down corner. Now, I don't see him as any better than Shields.

Snake, Raji has way more upside than Jolly. Jolly might be an anchor this season, but I think you put more eggs in Raji's basket, and hope Jolly will sign a 2 year deal for around $5 million. Jolly should show the packers a little bit of loyalty and take that deal, seeing that we put up with his incarcerated ass for 3 years.

Either way you look at it, decisions loom. It would make me feel better if that 2011 draft class was stronger. Sherrod is going to need to make a miracle recovery for us to benefit even marginally from that draft. In TT we (usually) trust.


NFL Network noted Packers and Raji are far away with Raji wanting a deal in the 9MIL to 10MIL a year range.

Don't let the door kick you in the ass buddy; you are not wortht those figures

[HarveyWallbangers]

Or are they in good cap situation?
:)

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20130914/PKR07/309130485/Pete-Dougherty-column-Packers-salary-cap-situation-looks-bright


It’s difficult to see how Thompson could afford to retain all seven, but he should be able to re-sign two of the three most expensive (Raji, Shields and Finley), and if he wants, five or possibly six total. With the cap carryover allowed by the NFL’s collective bargaining agreement, Thompson has at least $25 million in cap room to work with, not counting any money he’ll save with sure-to-come veteran roster and pay cuts next offseason...

Thompson next offseason also might try to extend the contract of receiver Randall Cobb, who in 2014 will be going into the final year of his rookie deal...

But the NFL’s new nine-year TV deal, worth roughly 60 percent more than the current one, kicks in next year. It’s expected to begin increasing the salary cap in 2015.

[SnakeLH2006]

Yep...Raji and Tramon are pretty good players, but can go if cap figures and salary expectations go North. Hayward and House need to play as Hayward is a playmaker and House could be a shutdown corner...both on the cheap. Travon is ok but he had one really good year and has really has regressed to being an average starting NFL CB. Finley is all about himself. I won't get into it but I know him personally and I don't care how talented he is, he's a selfish bitch that will NEVER make us better despite yearly articles saying how he did this and that to get better.

Arod is much like a young Brady as he doesn't need ELITE weapons to get his stats..I'm a Favre apologist cuz I grew up with him. But Arod would get Taco Wallace a starting gig somewhere. Arod is that good...then again I'm a QB rating whore....yet Arod decimates stats via the QB rating...and I love it. Fun side note: Snake had a Stats class in college and I ran the QB rating formula for a PowerPoint presentation showing winning % correlated to QB rating. It's not even close. Great QB's with a great QB rating have historically won most games vs. Qb's with low ratings...I did this for fun as most of the girls yawned and the dudes were totally into my speech, but it's true. Stats of great QB ratings get wins. Arod will win and our cap space means shit cuz we locked up the best QB in statistical history by a landslide and the current best passrusher..We just lost to maybe the best coached and best team in the NFL, the Niners...yet scouts still say we win 12 games with our brutal sched. I agree.

James Jones is a deece player but he's gone. Raji is gone. Travon might be gone. I dunno...life lives on in GB. As long as Arod is the QB and CMatty runs around scaring offenses...we will win a min of 10-14 games a year. The semantics of cap space are moot. We will ALWAYS be in good shape with TT as GM as he will NEVER overpay, rarely get FA's (which I suspect is cuz he gets more draft picks if he loses FA's vs signing them), and loves the rookies (which is smart for youth and training and also for cap space). We are in great shape as we just paid good deals for Arod and Cmatty and no one else needs a new deal IMO next year. I'd resign Jordy for the same deal...that's about it.

[MadtownPacker]

Dammit Snake!!!

Quit pasting the articles in threads. Just the link fucker.

[SnakeLH2006]

Dammit Snake!!!

Quit pasting the articles in threads. Just the link fucker.

Aight Mad..sorry bro. Snake is on here sporadically and I forget that shit. But u love me like the hot girl that shows up now and again in the yard next door wearing next to nothing. Cuz whether you agree with her or not..she's hot and makes you hard.I'm sorry bro. My bad.

[RashanGary]

Shields has been absolutely incredible early this season. He should stay if they can work out the right deal. I could see him signed in the coming week or 2.

[3irty1]

I tag and hopefully trade Raji if it was me. Get another year or two of Pickett. With the DL in the shape its in and Worthy coming back, we can afford to keep just a specialty player at NT and Pickett is as stout as they get. CJ Wilson walks opening up reps for Boyd. Neal I haven't decided on yet.

I make JJ a fair offer and let him decide. Same for Finley. I don't sign Cobb earlier than I have to.

Sign Shields as a priority. Let EDS hit FA then make a fair bid for a backup role. Come up with a nice raise for Jolly but still within reason. ~2.5M range.

Q and Newhouse will be a bit rich for my blood methinks.

[Patler]

Shields has been absolutely incredible early this season. (Emphasis added)

Do you think so? I think he has played quite well, and I hope they find a way to extend his contract, but I'm not sure he has shown himself to be elite. I think he might always struggle a bit with the highly athletic, monster-sized WRs there are out there now.

[pbmax]

Shields has been absolutely incredible early this season. He should stay if they can work out the right deal. I could see him signed in the coming week or 2.

Exactly. He is getting more and more expensive every week. Though he got a little sloppy late in the game.

[pbmax]

Do you think so? I think he has played quite well, and I hope they find a way to extend his contract, but I'm not sure he has shown himself to be elite. I think he might always struggle a bit with the highly athletic, monster-sized WRs there are out there now.

I think he is close to that level (though its only been 2 games and he has gone up and down before) but his limitation is size and technique. The Sunday Night Game showed what a bigger CB could do with Boldin to shut him down, something the Packers struggled to do even with double coverage.

House is the guy who will be physical with receivers if he continues to improve and gets to start. JSO took the removal of Hyde from nickel and the insertion of House (Williams went inside to the slot) as a sign he has regained some mojo. But Hyde has not translated his camp performance to the reg season. His speed is usually noted as a problem and his future could be at safety.

[Upnorth]

Sheilds has been credited with 5 pass breakups (he had 10 all of last season) but has seen a lot more action than TWill. I wonder if TWill is just playing a better coverage game pushing more attempts Sheilds way. Sheilds is playing well, but to me so far TWIll has played better this season.

[Patler]

I think he is close to that level (though its only been 2 games and he has gone up and down before) but his limitation is size and technique. The Sunday Night Game showed what a bigger CB could do with Boldin to shut him down, something the Packers struggled to so even with double coverage.

House is the guy who will be physical with receivers if he continues to improve and gets to start. JSO took the removal of Hyde from nickel and the insertion of House (Williams went inside to the slot) as a sign he has regained some mojo. But Hyde has not translated his camp performance to the reg season. His speed is usually noted as a problem and his future could be at safety.

It would have been nice to see House on Boldin a bit last week, just to see if it would have made a difference.

[bobblehead]

It would have been nice to see House on Boldin a bit last week, just to see if it would have made a difference.

Yea, by the 4th quarter I wanted to drop a house on Boldin....like the wicked witch of the west (or whichever one).

[HarveyWallbangers]

I tag and hopefully trade Raji if it was me. Get another year or two of Pickett. With the DL in the shape its in and Worthy coming back, we can afford to keep just a specialty player at NT and Pickett is as stout as they get. CJ Wilson walks opening up reps for Boyd. Neal I haven't decided on yet.

I make JJ a fair offer and let him decide. Same for Finley. I don't sign Cobb earlier than I have to.

Sign Shields as a priority. Let EDS hit FA then make a fair bid for a backup role. Come up with a nice raise for Jolly but still within reason. ~2.5M range.

Q and Newhouse will be a bit rich for my blood methinks.

Fair analysis. Raji is an enigma. He should be elite, but he's not. However, he's better than the stats show. He's a good player. He'd probably be great in another system. I'd tag him also, and then see what you can get for him. Finley is similar. I like him. More than his stats because of how he opens up the offense, but I have a feeling he'll be looking for a deal similar to what he's making, and that's probably too much.

I don't care about EDS, Quarless, or Newhouse.

Jolly is old with baggage. They should be able to resign him to a friendly deal. I would think the fact they took a chance on him would get a "home town discount."

I'd make Shields a pretty high priority. The other thing I'd do is try to get Jones, Nelson, and Cobb all locked up for another 3-4 years. I'd sign Nelson and Cobb early and give Jones a decent offer. I wouldn't go real high. If he's looking for that, you let him walk. Boykin could probably do a lot of what Jones does. Nelson and Cobb, on the other hand, are must keeps IMHO. I'd hate to lose both Finley and Jones though. I think they need to keep 3 of their guys, hope Boykin progresses, and draft somebody relatively high.

[red]

its not a tough decision for me

you let finley go because the guy only gives his all when big money is involved

raji can go, because we have more then enough talent on the d-line

and you can cut tramon because he isn't worth anywhere near the money he's making

cut jarrett bush. he's making good coin, and he fucking sucks, and with guys like house and banjo on the team, we no longer need his "talent" on special teams

letting those guys go should give us some cap room to keep guys like james jones, and randall cobb, etc

[Rutnstrut]

NFL Network noted Packers and Raji are far away with Raji wanting a deal in the 9MIL to 10MIL a year range.

Don't let the door kick you in the ass buddy; you are not wortht those figures

Raji is VERY over rated, if he doesn't want to stay for what GB is willing to give him let him waddle on out. Unless of course he has an outstanding year, which I highly doubt.

[3irty1]

NFL Network noted Packers and Raji are far away with Raji wanting a deal in the 9MIL to 10MIL a year range.

Don't let the door kick you in the ass buddy; you are not wortht those figures

That's more than it would cost to tag him.

[Fritz]

its not a tough decision for me

you let finley go because the guy only gives his all when big money is involved

raji can go, because we have more then enough talent on the d-line

and you can cut tramon because he isn't worth anywhere near the money he's making

cut jarrett bush. he's making good coin, and he fucking sucks, and with guys like house and banjo on the team, we no longer need his "talent" on special teams

letting those guys go should give us some cap room to keep guys like james jones, and randall cobb, etc


The funny part is that if you don't offer contracts to guys like Raji and Finley, they will be the "big name" free agents other teams will sign while Packer fans bitch that Ted won't sign a big name free agent...

[red]

picket is in the last year of his contact, and it's a big number year. either he is allowed to walk next year or he gets resigned and the first couple years of his new deal are much more cap friendly

his number for this season is 6.7 million

tramons cap number next season is 9.5 million. there is absolutely no reason to keep him at that price. he's gone

hawk is gonna count 6.2 million next season. you either like him or hate him. he is a leader on the defense, but you can find upgrades for cheaper

kuhn is our highest paid running back with a cap number of 2.5 million this season. this is the last year he is under contract. he can go

jarrett bush is our 3rd highest paid CB, and after we get rid of tramon he will be our 2nd highest paid cb with a cap number of 1.8 million. he will count just over 2 million next year. he can go

raji has a cap number this year of about 6.6 million. we either resign him or let him walk. if we resign him, his cap number should go down

same for finley, in the last year of his contract. he's counting 8.8 million this year against the cap. a new contract would bring lower cap numbers in the first couple of years. letting him go gives us a lot of cap room

so by my count thers about 40 million dollars in cap space to be gained right there. you would need to find a new starting ILB, TE, and another couple of fat guys for the d-line. but overall, it's do-able

[Joemailman]

picket is in the last year of his contact, and it's a big number year. either he is allowed to walk next year or he gets resigned and the first couple years of his new deal are much more cap friendly

his number for this season is 6.7 million

They will let him enter free agency and try to sign him to a lower contract.

tramons cap number next season is 9.5 million. there is absolutely no reason to keep him at that price. he's gone

Watch Davon House this year. He could make Tramon expendable.

hawk is gonna count 6.2 million next season. you either like him or hate him. he is a leader on the defense, but you can find upgrades for cheaper

I don't think Hawk is going anywhere. His contract is something they can afford, and he's better than people give him credit for.

kuhn is our highest paid running back with a cap number of 2.5 million this season. this is the last year he is under contract. he can go

I think Kuhn will be gone, or back for less money.

jarrett bush is our 3rd highest paid CB, and after we get rid of tramon he will be our 2nd highest paid cb with a cap number of 1.8 million. he will count just over 2 million next year. he can go

Agree

raji has a cap number this year of about 6.6 million. we either resign him or let him walk. if we resign him, his cap number should go down

Hard to gauge this one. My guess is they tag him, and try to sign him to an extension.

same for finley, in the last year of his contract. he's counting 8.8 million this year against the cap. a new contract would bring lower cap numbers in the first couple of years. letting him go gives us a lot of cap room

The way he's playing this year, he could be too expensive to keep.

so by my count thers about 40 million dollars in cap space to be gained right there. you would need to find a new starting ILB, TE, and another couple of fat guys for the d-line. but overall, it's do-able

In TT I trust.

[mission]

Unpopular opinion, but I'd sign Finley now that he's actually a TE. Before he was trying to slim down because he wanted to make the argument that he was actually a WR and get more money with the franchise tag. Now he's beefed up, filled in his frame and actually looks like a TE. I don't think hustle or heart is a problem with Finley and now that he's off twitter, think a lot of the problems are behind him. He's a good kid IMO. Just stupid.

[mraynrand]

Unpopular opinion, but I'd sign Finley now that he's actually a TE. Before he was trying to slim down because he wanted to make the argument that he was actually a WR and get more money with the franchise tag. Now he's beefed up, filled in his frame and actually looks like a TE. I don't think hustle or heart is a problem with Finley and now that he's off twitter, think a lot of the problems are behind him. He's a good kid IMO. Just stupid.

spot on

[pbmax]

Yeah, but if he was still haggling over $7-8 mil per year after dropfest, how much will he want in another deal? The asking price has to be north of that I would think.

[red]

Yeah, but if he was still haggling over $7-8 mil per year after dropfest, how much will he want in another deal? The asking price has to be north of that I would think.

he's already the 2nd highest paid TE in the game

its interesting to note that antonio gates (who finley wishes he was as good as) has never had a single season close to what finley is making this year

[HarveyWallbangers]

Gates last contract was in 2010, and it was for over $7.3M/year with $20M in guaranteed money. That was three years ago and that contract is much better than Finley's 2y/$14M contract with little guaranteed money. Even if he were to hit his incentives, Finley would not make $8M this year.

[gbgary]

spot on

Yup. Structure his contract to make it as friendly as possible. we have no replacement for him. it's not like the jennings situation.

[Joemailman]

Jimmy Graham is in the final year of his contract. If the Saints extend him before free agency, we should find out what the ceiling is for a Tight End.

[SnakeLH2006]

picket is in the last year of his contact, and it's a big number year. either he is allowed to walk next year or he gets resigned and the first couple years of his new deal are much more cap friendly

his number for this season is 6.7 million

tramons cap number next season is 9.5 million. there is absolutely no reason to keep him at that price. he's gone

hawk is gonna count 6.2 million next season. you either like him or hate him. he is a leader on the defense, but you can find upgrades for cheaper

kuhn is our highest paid running back with a cap number of 2.5 million this season. this is the last year he is under contract. he can go

jarrett bush is our 3rd highest paid CB, and after we get rid of tramon he will be our 2nd highest paid cb with a cap number of 1.8 million. he will count just over 2 million next year. he can go

raji has a cap number this year of about 6.6 million. we either resign him or let him walk. if we resign him, his cap number should go down

same for finley, in the last year of his contract. he's counting 8.8 million this year against the cap. a new contract would bring lower cap numbers in the first couple of years. letting him go gives us a lot of cap room

so by my count thers about 40 million dollars in cap space to be gained right there. you would need to find a new starting ILB, TE, and another couple of fat guys for the d-line. but overall, it's do-able

This.

+2 :)

[Fritz]

Gates last contract was in 2010, and it was for over $7.3M/year with $20M in guaranteed money. That was three years ago and that contract is much better than Finley's 2y/$14M contract with little guaranteed money. Even if he were to hit his incentives, Finley would not make $8M this year.

To me, one of the factors in the decision to re-sign Finley is what the organization believes will be his response to a big, longer-term deal.

Did he bulk up, shut up, and man up because he's in a contract year, or because he's grown up?

If the team determines that it's the former, then he'll be gone. If they believe it's the latter, my bet is that they re-sign him. MM really likes the dude and what he brings.

But of course, there's no way to know, for sure. And it might be a bit of both - he is maturing, but he's also playing for a big contract.

Guys like Rodgers and Matthews get monster contracts, and work even harder (if that's possible) and play lights-out. Guys like Cletidus Hunt get a big contract, and it's time to hit the la-z-boy with a bag of weed and some video games.

[pbmax]

Gates last contract was in 2010, and it was for over $7.3M/year with $20M in guaranteed money. That was three years ago and that contract is much better than Finley's 2y/$14M contract with little guaranteed money. Even if he were to hit his incentives, Finley would not make $8M this year.

Pretty sure he would, unless we aren't counting the $3 million dollar bonus he got in April (other $800,000 in bonus are workout and in-game bonuses)

YEAR . . . . . . . . . BASE . . . S. BONUS . . . MISC. . . . . . CAP HIT . . . . . DEAD
2012 . . . . . . . 950,000 . . 500,000 . . .3,800,000 . . .5,250,000 . . . 1,000,000
2013 . . . . . . .4,450,000 . . 500,000 . . .3,800,000 . . 8,750,000 . . . 3,800,000

Total cash he will collect for season 2013-14 is $8,250,000. Now, the average is $7 mil you are correct, but Finley was already asking for more than $7.3 average two years ago. Even as a full bodied TE, I am not sure that demand is coming down with two good years.

Like Jennings and Jones, he might not get it. But I think he will be asking for it.

[mraynrand]

. Guys like Cletidus Hunt get a big contract, and it's time to hit the la-z-boy with a bag of weed and some video games.

Ol' Cleedeeus say "it good to be remembered!"

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/CleedeeusViking.jpg (http://s453.photobucket.com/user/mraynrand/media/CleedeeusViking.jpg.html)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Pretty sure he would, unless we aren't counting the $3 million dollar bonus he got in April (other $800,000 in bonus are workout and in-game bonuses)

YEAR . . . . . . . . . BASE . . . S. BONUS . . . MISC. . . . . . CAP HIT . . . . . DEAD
2012 . . . . . . . 950,000 . . 500,000 . . .3,800,000 . . .5,250,000 . . . 1,000,000
2013 . . . . . . .4,450,000 . . 500,000 . . .3,800,000 . . 8,750,000 . . . 3,800,000

Total cash he will collect for season 2013-14 is $8,250,000. Now, the average is $7 mil you are correct, but Finley was already asking for more than $7.3 average two years ago. Even as a full bodied TE, I am not sure that demand is coming down with two good years.

Like Jennings and Jones, he might not get it. But I think he will be asking for it.

I missed his roster bonus, so youare correct on the details. I was off a bit on Gates' contract also, but the point is that saying Gates hasn't made close to Finley money is not correct. A player would take the $20M guaranteed money over $1M guanteed money of Finley's contract. You have to go beyond the numbers when analyzing these contracts.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4717/jermichael-finley


2/22/2012: Signed a two-year, $14 million contract. The deal included a $1 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives. Finley is eligible for $300,000 offseason workout bonuses in each year. 2013: $4.45 million (+ $3 million roster bonus due 3/27 + $500,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2014: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/611/antonio-gates


7/28/2010: Signed a six-year, $39.8 million contract. The deal contains $20.4 million guaranteed, including a $4.575 million signing bonus, $3.47 million first-year "option" bonus, and Gates' first two years' base salaries. His 2012 salary and $2.4 million of his 2013 salary are guaranteed for injury (not skill). 2013: $4.5 million, 2014: $5 million, 2015: $5.9 million, 2016: Free Agent

[red]

Gates last contract was in 2010, and it was for over $7.3M/year with $20M in guaranteed money. That was three years ago and that contract is much better than Finley's 2y/$14M contract with little guaranteed money. Even if he were to hit his incentives, Finley would not make $8M this year.

finley

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/jermichael-finley/

gates

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-diego-chargers/antonio-gates/

and gates could quite possibly be cut after this season, meaning he will never get his "big money" years

finley is working under a sweeter deal then gates imo

[red]

I missed his roster bonus, so youare correct on the details. I was off a bit on Gates' contract also, but the point is that saying Gates hasn't made close to Finley money is not correct. A player would take the $20M guaranteed money over $1M guanteed money of Finley's contract. You have to go beyond the numbers when analyzing these contracts.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4717/jermichael-finley



http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/611/antonio-gates

you're mincing words here harv. you're comparing finley's signing bonus to gates total guaranteed money

gates signing bonus was 4.75 million on a 6 year deal. all the roster bonuses, signing and misc things added to 20.4 million over 6 years. about 3.3 guaranteed per year

finley's total guaranteed money over two years is somewhere around 8.6 million or about 4.3 guaranteed per year

we keep paying fin based on potential, well now his pay is all the way up to top 4 at his position, and he sure as shit hasn't played like one of the top TE's in the nfl until this season

[Smeefers]

I think it's funny that we're going to get a "home town discount" on Jolly. If we let him go to free agency, he's going to sign with who ever pays him the most. The home town discount might be, "Hey Ted, Minnesota is going to pay me 3 mil a year guaranteed. Match?" His agent is going to get every red cent he can for Jolly and who could blame him? Dude's career is almost over, he has to score as big as he can, now.

If you think Finley is out the door, I think you're crazy. Every stinking word out of MM's mouth, when in reference to Finley, has been praise. He doesn't hem and haw about whether he wants him back or not. He has repeatedly said "I've made it clear, I want Finley on the team." The dude is staying and he's going to get paid as little as Ted can get out of him, but he's still going to get paid.

JJ isn't worth a lot of money. He's tried the market before and hasn't gotten a bite. I doubt he'll try it again. He's a good player, but he's a product of the system. I don't know anyone who thinks he could go to the browns and be a major reason that team turns around. If you're not a game changer, you're not going to get paid booko bucks.

Raji won't get 10 mil from anyone in the league, if he does, they can have him. We've had several defense heavy drafts, I'm not worried if we loose him. I will admit though, just about anyone else we put in there will be a step down.

Twill is gone or getting restructured.

Shields has played well but by no means would I call him a shut down corner. There's no shields Island. Maybe in 4 years, but not this year and not last year. But... because of that 'maybe', he gets a serious bump in cash.

[pbmax]

Well Gates number will be a comparable for the Packers certainly, but if he doesn't see it all and is near the end of his career, probably not much of a model from Finley's point of view.

Are there any other TEs paid near that number?

If not, then Graham and Finley will set the market.

[red]

Well Gates number will be a comparable for the Packers certainly, but if he doesn't see it all and is near the end of his career, probably not much of a model from Finley's point of view.

Are there any other TEs paid near that number?

If not, then Graham and Finley will set the market.

maybe zack miller

he's working on a 5 year 34 million dollar deal, he's in the middle year which just so happens to be the balloon year

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/zach-miller/

VD is on a 6 year 43 million dollar deal with a 10 million dollar signing bonus. i think fin would be lucky to get this deal, but it could very well happen

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/vernon-davis/

heath miller, 6 year, 35 million

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/heath-miller/

owen daniels 4 year, 21 million

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/owen-daniels/

jason witten might be the other big time TE contract. 7 year 50.5 million. 12.5 million signing bonus

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/jason-witten/

gronk just got a nice new extension, but its very backloaded

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/rob-gronkowski/

[Bretsky]

We should keep Finley, Jordy, and Randall Cobb IMO

[SnakeLH2006]

Finley can suck some dick and humility. It's pure potential. He's inconsistent as fuck cuz he's a toolbag as a human. Yeah, his skills as a football player are great, but semantics aside with his personal BS as am absolute douchebag (I met him...he's the most underwhelming idiot I EVER met...and met a few), he's not consistent. He drops too many balls, talks too much shit every time he barely gets a first down for 12 yards (or acts like he just won the SB with his antics), his blocking should be amazing considering his mass ratio being ripped given wideouts 50 lbs. lighter block better or at least give effort, yet no one on his team (players) likes him...as he's never gonna be a team player (all about himself).

It's like teaching a monkey to drive a car. It's funny, and might work for a bit and tease you, but not feasible longterm:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3n83yfmFsE

[gbgary]

Well...how did you Finley haters like the o without him?

[denverYooper]

Well...how did you Finley haters like the o without him?

lol

[Bretsky]

Well...how did you Finley haters like the o without him?


BINGO

[pbmax]

Well...how did you Finley haters like the o without him?


BINGO


They scored 30 points without him in 3.5 QTRs. I liked it fine. (23 if you take out the TO).

[red]

They scored 30 points without him in 3.5 QTRs. I liked it fine. (23 if you take out the TO).

i'm with PB

offense looked better after he left if you want to get picky

i don't think finley being in the game would have caused a-rod to hit jordy and jones on all those deep passes. and i'm pretty sure finley would have dropped the same pass that quarless did

and finleys statline today

one pass thrown to him, one drop

[Joemailman]

They scored 30 points without him in 3.5 QTRs. I liked it fine. (23 if you take out the TO).

23 despite having some great field position in the 1st half due to turnovers by Bengals. They missed Finley.

[Joemailman]

i'm with PB

offense looked better after he left if you want to get picky

i don't think finley being in the game would have caused a-rod to hit jordy and jones on all those deep passes. and i'm pretty sure finley would have dropped the same pass that quarless did

and finleys statline today

one pass thrown to him, one drop

I'm not sure it counts as a drop if you have the ball until knocked out with a concussion. At least it shouldn't. Finley's absence in the middle of the field forced Rodgers to try to force it to Nelson and Jones.

[red]

23 despite having some great field position in the 1st half due to turnovers by Bengals. They missed Finley.

they had some of that great field position before finley went out and didnt do shit

wash

[gbgary]

Rodgers struggled (poorest game in 3-4 years) with one huge weapon/option lost. cin pretty much blitzed every down after he went out. Packers d did more than enough, the running game was better than normal, but it was the limited passing game that failed. Rodgers can't do it by himself. you add weapons...you don't eliminate them.

[MJZiggy]

Rodgers struggled (poorest game in 3-4 years) with one huge weapon/option lost. cin pretty much blitzed every down after he went out. Packers d did more than enough, the running game was better than normal, but it was the limited passing game that failed. Rodgers can't do it by himself. you add weapons...you don't eliminate them.

The D did more than enough? You're joking, right?

[red]

can we honestly add finley at 8 million a year?

we still have a lot of holes. by my count we still need to find 4 or 5 o-linemen that can start in the NFL, and still need another good pass rusher opposite clay. and getting a good safety wouldn't hurt either

we have a ton of money tied up in two guys long term, making it three guys might mean we are stuck with 4th and 5th round rookies starting because we can't afford better options

[Joemailman]

The D did more than enough? You're joking, right?

The D played well. Realistically, they gave up 20 points, scored 7 while forcing 4 turnovers. That should have been enough. The offense scored 23 points and gave back 7. This loss is primarily on the offense.

[run pMc]

can we honestly add finley at 8 million a year?

we still have a lot of holes. by my count we still need to find 4 or 5 o-linemen that can start in the NFL, and still need another good pass rusher opposite clay. and getting a good safety wouldn't hurt either

we have a ton of money tied up in two guys long term, making it three guys might mean we are stuck with 4th and 5th round rookies starting because we can't afford better options

Can we add him at that number? I hope not. Good player, talented, agree that you don't eliminate weapons for Rodgers...but I think TT can find someone -- in the draft, most likely -- to replace him for less. Seems like oversized WR's are now the rage. His blocking is better, but you could probably get that from a rookie. 2010 was proof that the offense could keep rolling without Finley, but they had a WR corps that (if you counted Driver along with Jennings, Jones and Nelson) went pretty deep. Maybe Stoneburner or Bostick is that guy, maybe they draft an Eifert type.

I like Finley, but I don't like him at that number. I'd rather spend that money on other players.

[Packers4Glory]

GTFO out Williams. I'm sick of you. Not only do you suck but then you commit stupid ass penalties to add 15 yards to the end of your fuck ups.

[Packers4Glory]

i'm with PB

offense looked better after he left if you want to get picky

i don't think finley being in the game would have caused a-rod to hit jordy and jones on all those deep passes. and i'm pretty sure finley would have dropped the same pass that quarless did

and finleys statline today

one pass thrown to him, one drop

no fucking way. The offense was clearly not the same w/o Fin. 30 points off mostly FG and a couple scores one of which was a run. The only thing the offense looked good doing was running the ball. Not having Finley really bogged down the passing game because our other TE are pretty below average in the passing game. Fin for all his drops is a match up problem and helps take pressure off our other guys. Things open a lot more for this offense w/ Finely on the field.

[Bretsky]

They scored 30 points without him in 3.5 QTRs. I liked it fine. (23 if you take out the TO).

You must have been watching another game if you don't think they missed the threat Finley provides. Quarles was terrible, and there were plenty of times when AROD was back there thinking who the hell is open. The offense by no means tore it up despite the score.

[pbmax]

You must have been watching another game if you don't think they missed the threat Finley provides. Quarles was terrible, and there were plenty of times when AROD was back there thinking who the hell is open. The offense by no means tore it up despite the score.

Not sure they would have tore it up with him either. More targets are better than fewer and he is better than Quarless and Taylor, but that doesn't mean you keep him at or near his franchise number.

[Bretsky]

can we honestly add finley at 8 million a year?

we still have a lot of holes. by my count we still need to find 4 or 5 o-linemen that can start in the NFL, and still need another good pass rusher opposite clay. and getting a good safety wouldn't hurt either

we have a ton of money tied up in two guys long term, making it three guys might mean we are stuck with 4th and 5th round rookies starting because we can't afford better options

We don't sign free agents to serious money anymore, and we just used a first round draft pick on the answer to pass pressure opposite Clay......unless you think that pick is f'cked....from my end it might be but it's still TBD. I think we can sign Finley in the 8MIL range. It won't be hard to replace James Jones with Cobb getting better and if we can keep Jordy. We'd have to use a high pick to get us what Finley brings and as you noted we have a few needs via pass rush and the OL and maybe DL if Raji leaves

[Bretsky]

Not sure they would have tore it up with him either. More targets are better than fewer and he is better than Quarless and Taylor, but that doesn't mean you keep him at or near his franchise number.



You guys make it sounds like the offense tore it up; to me it was sub par with all of he situations they were presented with. They lost a 30-14 lead.

[red]

a center and maybe someone to replace lang would be a nice use of the money that finley would take up

[Bretsky]

they had some of that great field position before finley went out and didnt do shit

wash



Dude hardly played and had one pass to him in which he got a concussion. If you hate him that much become a Quarless fan so I can mock you at how bad he is.

To Counter your Finley Hatred, you need to start cheering for J Bush :)

[Bretsky]

a center and maybe someone to replace lang would be a nice use of the money that finley would take up




I don't think Lang is that bad; If they would ever draft a center high they could get a good one. They are greatly undervalued and tend to free fall lately.
I wonder how my buddy Schwenke is doing so far ?

[Bretsky]

:bclap:
The D played well. Realistically, they gave up 20 points, scored 7 while forcing 4 turnovers. That should have been enough. The offense scored 23 points and gave back 7. This loss is primarily on the offense.



:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

[pbmax]

You guys make it sounds like the offense tore it up; to me it was sub par with all of he situations they were presented with. They lost a 30-14 lead.

Finley was part of subpar. He had an ILB on him in single coverage with safety over the top. He failed to disengage the coverage despite his athletic advantages and attempted a one handed catch, fell trying to control it and got nailed in the head.

How many contested balls has he come up with in the last two years? In 2009, at the end of the year, he could not be stopped. Not the case anymore.

Nelson and Jones both get the ball better than he does and neither has the same physical advantage.

That said, even short routes are better than none and he might have presented a target Rodgers could get the ball to over the D line. So it would have been better with him. But I get the sense they have tailored the O for him rather than have him bust the zones they need to bust.

[denverYooper]

You must have been watching another game if you don't think they missed the threat Finley provides. Quarles was terrible, and there were plenty of times when AROD was back there thinking who the hell is open. The offense by no means tore it up despite the score.

I'm not sure why you thought Quarless was terrible. He blocked well and caught a few balls. He had the one obvious drop, but Fin's good for one of those per game. The guy's just come back after a year and a half and shown decent hands with a huge lean when it comes to blocking. He doesn't have the athleticism that Fin does but I'm not sure he won't be more of an asset come season's end, all things in.

[Packers4Glory]

Fin is a difference maker. He's a legit big time 4th threat in the passing game. If he'd not got hurt and played like he had the previous 2 games I think we win this game. turnovers aside, his getting hurt was the single biggest factor in the loss. with him we still win the game. the drop off from Fin to the other TE on the roster is as deep as the Grand fucking Canyon.

and trust me I get as frustrated with the guy as anyone but he's a difference maker. he'll get more opportunities to make or screw up a play because he's got the tools the other guys just don't have. You live w/ the bad because the good is something most teams don't have or defenses can't defend consistently. He's really reminding me of James Jones and dont' be shocked when he really turns the corner like Jones.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm not sure why you thought Quarless was terrible. He blocked well and caught a few balls.

See, now this shows the difference between a casual fan like yourself, and the trained eye of a seasoned armchair scout. Quarless made some plays, but mostly he still looked like a stiff player. He is supposed to be more like Finley than Sitton.

[Patler]

You live w/ the bad because the good is something most teams don't have or defenses can't defend consistently.

I think this is a point worth discussing, because it directly relates to how much a team is willing to pay for Finley's services. I think your point was true at one time, but I'm not sure it is now. It seems like good pass receiving TEs are popping up all over the place, so much so that quite a few teams now seem to have a couple of them. Finley had a record year for GB tight ends, yet 9 others had as many or more receptions than he did, and 11 had more yards than he did. Then, you have to look at a guy like Vernon Davis who had fewer catches and fewer yards than Finley, but could replace him very nicely. If you start looking at teams that split TE receptions between two good receiving TEs, Finley's importance probably drops even more, because he was the primary TE target in GB. For example, Hernandez and Gronkowski each had fewer catches than Finley, as did Pettigrew and Schefler; but if healthy and not in jail would be decent replacements for Finley.

I don't deny the advantages of having a good receiving TE. But it seems that aren't as rare as they once were.

[Bossman641]

i'm with PB

offense looked better after he left if you want to get picky

i don't think finley being in the game would have caused a-rod to hit jordy and jones on all those deep passes. and i'm pretty sure finley would have dropped the same pass that quarless did

and finleys statline today

one pass thrown to him, one drop

???????

Finley was knocked out on the first Packer series of the game. How many yards did you expect him to have after 6 plays?

[Bossman641]

Finley was part of subpar. He had an ILB on him in single coverage with safety over the top. He failed to disengage the coverage despite his athletic advantages and attempted a one handed catch, fell trying to control it and got nailed in the head.

How many contested balls has he come up with in the last two years? In 2009, at the end of the year, he could not be stopped. Not the case anymore.

Nelson and Jones both get the ball better than he does and neither has the same physical advantage.

That said, even short routes are better than none and he might have presented a target Rodgers could get the ball to over the D line. So it would have been better with him. But I get the sense they have tailored the O for him rather than have him bust the zones they need to bust.

I agree with you that Finley didn't run away from the defender, but after that happened what did you expect him to do? The ball was put in a place where Finley couldn't jump or take the ball away from a defender. I have a hard time calling that a contested ball. I'm surprised Rodgers even threw that pass.

[pbmax]

I agree with you that Finley didn't run away from the defender, but after that happened what did you expect him to do? The ball was put in a place where Finley couldn't jump or take the ball away from a defender. I have a hard time calling that a contested ball. I'm surprised Rodgers even threw that pass.

I am guessing he threw it because Finley was 1 on 1 with a linebacker. The pass was not high, but had he fully separated from the LB (and I mean to shrug off the grabs and pulls, not just accelerate) he could have either caught it with both hands and turned or jumped to break the target of the safety and receive the blow at a place of his choosing.

Getting open in close quarters doesn't mean simply running by people, with a safety over the top, that doesn't always work. It can mean a single decisive break on the ball. Which is what he no longer seems to do. Too often he is waving at it with one hand.

Wilde wrote that Finley is running again like he is not concerned about his knee. That may be true. But he isn't contesting for the ball like he no longer fears getting hit.

[Carolina_Packer]

a center and maybe someone to replace lang would be a nice use of the money that finley would take up

Totally agree, Red. I'm not sure what the plans are with Tretter, but if he can get back this year and provide any kind of competition for EDS and solidify the middle, that would be great. If not this season, then next training camp EDS needs some serious competition as he is being walked/shoved into the back field in pass pro too often.

While I know we wish that Bulaga and Sherrod had never gotten hurt, the reality is that they may never be what the Packers hoped when drafted. It's hard to fix a boat that keeps springing new leaks, but I'm tired of the o-line being shaky and for sign and develop guys to all mesh. Did you see Manning last night with a new center? I know Oakland is not near Cinci's front 7, but damn he had all day. Tom Brady loses his weapons, but the o-line play is still solid.

Get the o-line issue figured out however you have to do it and then A-Rod will be even more dangerous instead of having to always be good under duress. Geez, what would he do if he had clean plays most of the time?

[red]

???????

Finley was knocked out on the first Packer series of the game. How many yards did you expect him to have after 6 plays?

yup, you're right. it just seemed like it was later in the game because we were already losing 14-0

[Bretsky]

yup, you're right. it just seemed like it was later in the game because we were already losing 14-0

Hmmm; how early did you start drinking that day ???

[Fritz]

I think PB hit the central issue square on the head with this line: " But he isn't contesting for the ball like he no longer fears getting hit."

That's the problem I have. I don't want the Packers to pay a guy the eight million a year or whatever it is when he's been public about not really wanting to go over the middle. There was a quote from Finley in another thread, I think (or was it this one?) in which he mentioned he liked the way he was being used this year because he wasn't being asked to go over the middle so much.

I love Finley's talent, but here we are, still talking about him "turning the corner" which we've been doing for the past two or three years now. Remember, the Packers kept him and paid him his big bonus this year because this was the year he was supposed to have already turned the corner, and was going to prove it.

But he still has his big drops, and he's afraid to go over the middle and play big. To me, that's not a guy you fork over a lot of money to, when you've got BJ Raji, Sam Shields, and several others waiting, with their palms out, for a big pay day.

I'm not against re-signing Finley, but I wouldn't re-sign him for the number you guys are throwing around, which may be the number he's looking for.

[mraynrand]

I don't know how Finley could play any bigger than to lay out for a tough ball right in the middle of the field between the LB and Safety and get his head handed to him. That's no man's land. It's not like a slot receiver who sets down into a hole and waits for the ball. Dude laid it all out there. Finley is still a beast, and you can still throw to him when covered because of the size advantage. A lot of times Finley beasted it in 2009 when they got great outside one on one matchups with smaller defensive backs or inside with slower LBs. Teams now game plan for him and double cover him. If they don't they typically get smoked.

But of course, we could get great value if we traded him straight up to the Rams for Scotty Wells. You then eliminate all the dropped passes and shore up the O-line into an elite, top 3 O-line - due to Well's awesomeness. Wells never drops passes.

[Fritz]

Just because I did not watch the game and did not even see the play doesn't mean I am wrong.

Wait. How about "Well he only did it once so that doesn't prove anything."

[Bossman641]

I don't know how Finley could play any bigger than to lay out for a tough ball right in the middle of the field between the LB and Safety and get his head handed to him. That's no man's land. It's not like a slot receiver who sets down into a hole and waits for the ball. Dude laid it all out there. Finley is still a beast, and you can still throw to him when covered because of the size advantage. A lot of times Finley beasted it in 2009 when they got great outside one on one matchups with smaller defensive backs or inside with slower LBs. Teams now game plan for him and double cover him. If they don't they typically get smoked.

But of course, we could get great value if we traded him straight up to the Rams for Scotty Wells. You then eliminate all the dropped passes and shore up the O-line into an elite, top 3 O-line - due to Well's awesomeness. Wells never drops passes.

+1

It's hard for me to criticize Finley on a play where he goes for the ball and is led directly into a safety. If you go to the 0:05 mark, Finley catches the ball with 2 hands and then takes one hand off the ball to brace for contact with the ground.

James Jones not fighting for position on his slant, now that is not going after a contested ball.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrT54uEyyrw

[pbmax]

I don't know how Finley could play any bigger than to lay out for a tough ball right in the middle of the field between the LB and Safety and get his head handed to him. That's no man's land. It's not like a slot receiver who sets down into a hole and waits for the ball. Dude laid it all out there. Finley is still a beast, and you can still throw to him when covered because of the size advantage. A lot of times Finley beasted it in 2009 when they got great outside one on one matchups with smaller defensive backs or inside with slower LBs. Teams now game plan for him and double cover him. If they don't they typically get smoked.

But of course, we could get great value if we traded him straight up to the Rams for Scotty Wells. You then eliminate all the dropped passes and shore up the O-line into an elite, top 3 O-line - due to Well's awesomeness. Wells never drops passes.

I cannot be certain. He did make a play for the ball, Rodgers has said it was a beat late (its timed off a shortened 3 step drop - then he lost me) and the safety was headed his way. But that is always how those seam route happen. Its rarely clean.

He coud be a victim of matchups and they did single the other three WRs so there was a safety over the top to help.

But I cannot recall him decisively making a play on the ball since the injury when contested. My memory is not perfect and it probably HAS happened. But its not often and its not usually over the middle. With the weight back on he should be able to shoulder past touch and grab by a LB. But the best he could do was reach out a hand. I will say this for him, whatever body control he did not have, he stabbed that thing with one hand and pulled it in. Still remarkable.

Is this overreacting? Possibly. Having enough talent to get open short and get YAC is enough reason to keep a TE. But I do not think its enough to be paid near the franchise number. He's a bit like KGB now. Probably overpaid this year but still a head above the rest of what is available on the roster.

[pbmax]

That second slo-mo shows everything about him. Tremendous short time reaction to ball and stabs it with one hand. Immediately is able to pull it in to two hands.

But by reaching with one hand (which he seems to do more of these days) he fails to turn his body, possible to keep one eye on the safety or to prepare to gain YAC. Had he turned his body or jump-stopped in between the safety and the ball, he could have shielded himself from that shot. Easy to say while sitting here watching the replay, but its almost like he has forgotten how to get position and protect himself in traffic.

[Guiness]

Cap numbers for various players get thrown around - from $2million for Bush to $9.5 for Tramon Williams, with a lot of salaries around $4-6M which the Pack will have to make decisions on.

With the exception of Williams, all of those numbers pale in comparison to the >$20M Rodgers takes home. In the QB centric NFL that exists today, he's well worth it and the Pack had to give it to him, but it sure skews the whole system with one player making that much money. The new rookie salary structure was supposed to take the money away from the unproven college kids and give it to the vets but that's not what happened...it all went straight to the top 1% of the league, who are predominantly QBs.

I'd like to see some numbers that show how much the top 10 QB salaries in the league have gone up compared to the salary cap since the new CBA. Seems to me that they have all gotten close to or more than $20M/season. Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, Flacco are all over 20. P. Manning and Brady both seemed to have signed for just under that number, although it's hard to tell just what Brady got.

edit: and Romo. He's at or near the 20 mark. Stafford got a bit less.

Thing is, it's no coincidence that the teams those QBs are on are also the most successful in the NFL, so they money (well, except Flacco!) is worth it, so I don't see how this Brave New Reality changes.

[pbmax]

The new rookie salary structure was supposed to take the money away from the unproven college kids and give it to the vets but that's not what happened...it all went straight to the top 1% of the league, who are predominantly QBs.


I would bet most of the money went to the owners. QBs continue to do well, but the cap shrunk the first year of the new deal by $7 million per team and has still not recovered to the previous level. The cash minimums also have not fully kicked in yet.

[Guiness]

I would bet most of the money went to the owners. QBs continue to do well, but the cap shrunk the first year of the new deal by $7 million per team and has still not recovered to the previous level. The cash minimums also have not fully kicked in yet.

The cap went down by a few million, but is back where it was in 2010 now, isn't it? It's hard to find the numbers.

The NFL sold the PA on the idea that money saved by paying the rookies less would end up going to vets. It mostly ended up with QBs.

[mraynrand]

I cannot be certain. He did make a play for the ball, Rodgers has said it was a beat late (its timed off a shortened 3 step drop - then he lost me) and the safety was headed his way. But that is always how those seam route happen. Its rarely clean.

He coud be a victim of matchups and they did single the other three WRs so there was a safety over the top to help.

But I cannot recall him decisively making a play on the ball since the injury when contested. My memory is not perfect and it probably HAS happened. But its not often and its not usually over the middle. With the weight back on he should be able to shoulder past touch and grab by a LB. But the best he could do was reach out a hand. I will say this for him, whatever body control he did not have, he stabbed that thing with one hand and pulled it in. Still remarkable.

Is this overreacting? Possibly. Having enough talent to get open short and get YAC is enough reason to keep a TE. But I do not think its enough to be paid near the franchise number. He's a bit like KGB now. Probably overpaid this year but still a head above the rest of what is available on the roster.


I'll concede a faulty memory too, but I don't recall Finley's greatest moments from 2009 catching in traffic over the middle. My recollection is that most of his greatest moments come from favorable matchups - on a smaller db or slower LB. That was certainly true of his 3 TD game versus Chicago for example.

Much has been made of the decline of his hands. Not convinced that's more perception than reality. Kinda like Ahman Green ruining the 2003 Packers with fumbles.

[red]

The cap went down by a few million, but is back where it was in 2010 now, isn't it? It's hard to find the numbers.

The NFL sold the PA on the idea that money saved by paying the rookies less would end up going to vets. It mostly ended up with QBs.

it was 123 million in 2009 and it is 123 million today

if the cap would have continued growing the way it was before 2009 (going up between 7 and 15 million a year) the cap today would be over 150 million

[pbmax]

I'll concede a faulty memory too, but I don't recall Finley's greatest moments from 2009 catching in traffic over the middle. My recollection is that most of his greatest moments come from favorable matchups - on a smaller db or slower LB. That was certainly true of his 3 TD game versus Chicago for example.

Much has been made of the decline of his hands. Not convinced that's more perception than reality. Kinda like Ahman Green ruining the 2003 Packers with fumbles.

The contested catches I most remember are from the twin Cardinals games at the end of 2009. But perhaps he was even more dominant in early 2010 when he seemed to be the focus of the offense. His hands were never perfect, but he seemed a different level from those trying to cover him.

To be fair, the offense was going it fits and spurts early in 2010. So he's not a one man offense. But he was a difference maker.

[mraynrand]

The contested catches I most remember are from the twin Cardinals games at the end of 2009.

ha ha! The playoff game is the one I recall where he exploited match ups!

[Guiness]

it was 123 million in 2009 and it is 123 million today

if the cap would have continued growing the way it was before 2009 (going up between 7 and 15 million a year) the cap today would be over 150 million

Saw that on Wikipedia as well - the only source I seemed to be able to find. What I'm getting at is that in 2009 Eli Manning signed a then record contract, 7yrs $107M - averages $15.3M. 4 years later, same salary cap, all the boys are getting $20M/year. That money came from somewhere.

[pbmax]

Raji has sacrificed himself for the sake of the linebackers by eating up multiple blockers.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/dom-capers-believes-packers-defense-will-shore-up-holes-b99108124z1-225598482.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I would sign this Raji to a big deal.

[denverYooper]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/dom-capers-believes-packers-defense-will-shore-up-holes-b99108124z1-225598482.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I would sign this Raji to a big deal.


They rank in the top 10 in fewest first downs allowed on third and 5 or more but sit tied for 29th in passing touchdowns allowed.
Maybe that's why I've felt better about the D lately. I never trusted them on 3rd and long the last 2 years.



They have played the entire season without safety Morgan Burnett and cornerback Casey Hayward because of hamstring injuries, but they have not missed a start anywhere else on the unit

These guys returning should help the passing TDs.

[Willard]

Several weeks after this thread went dormant I finally get around to identifying the players destined to leave after the season: tramon Williams, bj Raji, jermichael Finley, bush, Kuhn, Wallace, Pickett. That is some serious cap freed up.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/dom-capers-believes-packers-defense-will-shore-up-holes-b99108124z1-225598482.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I would sign this Raji to a big deal.

Reading that LINK above I feel this is a key issue with our 'D'. Without a real shutdown corner we see the secondary doubling up a lot. Having to do that leaves the Packers short up front and opportunity to blitz the QB. I'll be disappointed if TT retains Tramon Williams at anywhere close to what he's being paid now.

I feel that TT has to get a solid shutdown CB in his next draft. We need to see more picks from our secondary. With the physical limitations on the current secondary it's all they can do to try to cover the big talented WR's opposing teams run at us today.

PACKERS !

[hoosier]

Several weeks after this thread went dormant I finally get around to identifying the players destined to leave after the season: tramon Williams, bj Raji, jermichael Finley, bush, Kuhn, Wallace, Pickett. That is some serious cap freed up.

If they let Raji and Pickett walk then aren't they just back where they were at the end of last season, needing to completely retool the defensive line? Signing Raji to a big contract might not make much sense if you are continuing with Capers and his preference for the nickel, but in that case I think they need to find a way to keep Pickett around for those times when they need an unmovable object in the middle and hope that Boyd is ready to contribute something next year.

[Brandon494]

Smh we have this discussion every year. The older and fragile guys are the ones who will be let go, when was the last time TT let a good younger healthy player walk. Raji stays, Finley bye bye.

[denverYooper]

Those cap decisions look a lot easier now.

[hoosier]

Smh we have this discussion every year. The older and fragile guys are the ones who will be let go, when was the last time TT let a good younger healthy player walk. Raji stays, Finley bye bye.

If Raji is seeking $8.5M/year it could be tough to re-sign him even if they wanted to. But do you want to pay that much to a guy who is only supposed to be on the field for 30 plays per game?