Is the game getting too fast for the refs...?

[Maxie the Taxi]

...Or is the NFL getting too pansy-ass?

In the last couple weeks I've seen some strange penalties called for unnecessary roughness. I know the league is cracking down on the super-late hits, head-hunting, etc. But I've seen guys get penalties for stuff that years ago was called "just football."

Cases in point...Clay Mathews flying through the air, unable to apply air brakes and crashes into Kapperdick. In this last game, the penalties on Perry and Williams were pansy-ass in my opinion. Both Perry and Williams were flying toward a tackle. Perry was expected to stop mid-air and change direction. Williams probably has his eyes closed bringing down a receiver who's fighting to stay on his feet and Williams is supposed to stop his tackle the moment he "feels" that he crosses the sideline?

And if the refs are going to make pansy-ass calls, why not penalize the Cincy ape who threw Rodgers to the ground after the play was over (I think it was in the first half)?

Am I right or is it just my latent hostility coming out as the result of the Cincy debacle?

[pbmax]

No, Perry was expected not to drive his helmet down into the already prone and down ball carrier. It was fine except for that piece of stupidity.

Leaving your feet isn't an excuse for Matthews and Williams was OK until he took him down to the ground OOB. The hit and shove were fine. Williams was more in the wrong than Matthews because it was almost a second move and he started it while already OOB.

[mraynrand]

There was a late hit on Rodgers called that was BS in the Cincy game. Refs are looking for this stuff, so it's gonna get called. Keep your head up (see what you tackle) and pull up when you can.

Realistically, society is getting pansier. Guns are in the realm of thought crimes in grade schools (e.g. a Pop Tart-shaped like a gun results in suspension), and parents (mothers) don't want to see hurt kids. Women/mothers will drive the change to a softer sport, especially since more women are raising children alone and are far more attached to their sons than ever before. Football will transition into some kind of 'electronic touch' tackling in the next three decades for sure.

[Maxie the Taxi]

No, Perry was expected not to drive his helmet down into the already prone and down ball carrier. It was fine except for that piece of stupidity.

Leaving your feet isn't an excuse for Matthews and Williams was OK until he took him down to the ground OOB. The hit and shove were fine. Williams was more in the wrong than Matthews because it was almost a second move and he started it while already OOB.

Obviously, I've got a different take. I can understand (somewhat) protecting the QB. The QB is usually stationary with his ribs exposed during a throw and has many vulnerable blindsides. The pass rusher is usually the one coming at this stationary target with full speed and momentum. There is little the QB can do and what he can do usually doesn't have momentum to it.

Receivers and ball carriers, on the other hand, are usually going full speed themselves. They have a lot of momentum when they are first hit by a tackler who has his own full speed and momentum to add. Moreover, the ball carrier/receiver is fighting to stay up and/or stay in bounds. The rules require the tackler to pull up and stop his momentum when the ball carrier is down or OB. I contend the players are so fast nowadays and so strong (and the down by contact rule so vague at times as to require video review) that the tackler is often put in an untenable position.

Perry had to run full speed and initiate his tackle because the receiver was struggling out of the arms of another tackler. Unfortunately for Perry, the ball carrier went down just as Perry launched himself. Now to me, the video shows that Perry didn't drive his helmet into the ball carrier. It looked like he angled his flying body in such a way to "skim" over the top and avoid a late hit as best he could. The ball carrier popped up and went about his business without pointing fingers at Perry.

Same thing with Williams. I think both Williams and ball carrier alike felt that the hit was the logical extension of the runners avoidance momentum and Williams' tackling momentum. I think the flag came as a surprise to both of them.

My point is that not only are tacklers and ball carriers put in an untenable position. So are referees, who are forced now to draw that fine line between simple momentum and intention. I think the action has become to fast for them to make such a judgement consistently. The consequence is undo influence on the game's outcome by the referees' arbitrary judgement.

One thing a video replay cannot show with certainty is a player's intention.

[Maxie the Taxi]

There was a late hit on Rodgers called that was BS in the Cincy game. Refs are looking for this stuff, so it's gonna get called. Keep your head up (see what you tackle) and pull up when you can.

Realistically, society is getting pansier. Guns are in the realm of thought crimes in grade schools (e.g. a Pop Tart-shaped like a gun results in suspension), and parents (mothers) don't want to see hurt kids. Women/mothers will drive the change to a softer sport, especially since more women are raising children alone and are far more attached to their sons than ever before. Football will transition into some kind of 'electronic touch' tackling in the next three decades for sure.

I know you're probably right, Ayn and I know my old school mentality is not going to be satisfied over time. On the other hand, maybe our society will develop along the lines of the old Roman Empire and movies such as Roller Ball and The Hunger Games. Society in general is pansified, but it allows a small corner of itself to tolerate...even enjoy...extreme violence, thereby satisfying its repressed urge for unpansiness.

In other words, in three decades the NFL might be more like Ultimate Fighting. Players with weapons may even be allowed (except for Christian players). That kind of thing. :|

[Zool]

It's quite obvious players are still using their helmets as weapons. At the very least they hit people with the part just above the face mask. At worst, they use the top of their heads. Ask former players with dementia if they think it was a good idea. Need to train out the culture or go back to leather helmets.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It's quite obvious players are still using their helmets as weapons. At the very least they hit people with the part just above the face mask. At worst, they use the top of their heads. Ask former players with dementia if they think it was a good idea. Need to train out the culture or go back to leather helmets.

Leather helmets without facemasks. I've heard ex-players advocate that.

Another suggestion would be to determine the top ten or so absolute worst, most truly dangerous actions and then up the penalty yardage on these top ten...say half the distance to the goal no matter what your field position. I think these kind of mega-penalties would filter out the goons. But the top ten mega-penalties would have to be obvious and easy to call/verify on tape...like clipping.

[mraynrand]

It's quite obvious players are still using their helmets as weapons. At the very least they hit people with the part just above the face mask. At worst, they use the top of their heads. Ask former players with dementia if they think it was a good idea. Need to train out the culture or go back to leather helmets.

I asked them. I didn't get coherent responses. (in fairness, I didn't get coherent responses from non-brain injured former players either, but you didn't ask about them)

[mraynrand]

I know you're probably right, Ayn and I know my old school mentality is not going to be satisfied over time. On the other hand, maybe our society will develop along the lines of the old Roman Empire and movies such as Roller Ball and The Hunger Games.

Jon-a-than, Jon-a-than, Jon-a-than!

http://sfstory.free.fr/images/Rollerball/20.jpg
CAAAAAANNNN!

[pbmax]

I thought the replay had Perry burying his helmet after (or perhaps at) contact. But cannot find it now to review. I initially thought it was touchy feely but the replay in broadcast showed what the ref saw.

I think there are calls where the player cannot do much more (Perry on Luck for instance, the slide up the QB's chest is hard to account for in targeting). But I agree with Zool that like a NASCAR crew chief, players are still trying to get away with it.

Matthews was a tough call and I have no issue with the attempt though it might have been better to keep his feet and finish. Williams just lost track of where he was.

[mraynrand]

I thought the replay had Perry burying his helmet after (or perhaps at) contact. But cannot find it now to review. I initially thought it was touchy feely but the replay in broadcast showed what the ref saw.

I think there are calls where the player cannot do much more (Perry on Luck for instance, the slide up the QB's chest is hard to account for in targeting). But I agree with Zool that like a NASCAR crew chief, players are still trying to get away with it.

Matthews was a tough call and I have no issue with the attempt though it might have been better to keep his feet and finish. Williams just lost track of where he was.

The Perry call was totally justified. He was late and lead with the helmet - pretty easy. Williams started contact in bounds - as a little guy he needs to make sure the guy actually is out. I saw nothing wrong with that one. Matthews' looks a lot worse than it was, but it was called late because the launch strung it out.

[Fritz]

I don't know why you guys are complaining. I like pussies a great deal, myself.

[mraynrand]

I don't know why you guys are complaining. I like pussies a great deal, myself.

that wasn't wise. Now Harlan is on his way to Detroitish