Packer Fan Rant

[dahammer001]

I few things about the packers I would like to discuss. The inability of the organization to draft hard nose football players that can diagnose and make plays on a consistent basis. I get tired of seeing defensive guys that can't figure out what's going happen in the game, and if the figure it out they can't seem to make the tackle. I get tired of hearing about pad level, and we're going to get this fixed, damn it get it fixed!
I hate the fact that the organization like to draft six foot wide receivers, when everybody else manage to find receivers that are in the six foot three to six foot five range, that can run like a deer. I think that would help Rodgers out tremendously! The organization drives me crazy with these six foot 300 lb. lineman they seem to find every year. This becomes a problem when you encounter physical teams like the Niners or Seahawks.
Can we get some big corners that can tackle and fricking cover someone. The offensive line is putrid at best, can't pass block or run block, its one or two things, the players that are being selected are lousy or the coaches that preparing the players can't coach, pick your choice! I fear for Rodgers own safety. Does it seem strange that our guys are constantly being knocked out of games by opponents, but the packers defensive players never seem to put opposing players out of the game, I'm just saying! What ever happen to the screen pass it used to be constant staple of the packers offense. The one thing I do like is that Aaron Rodgers do not throw away games like the previous predecessor. That's my rant for the season and wish the packers luck for the upcoming season.

[red]

jordy is 6'3

our guys can run routes and catch the ball most of the time, a lot of those 6'4 guys can only run one or two routes

IMO, we need to stop going for the home run ball so many times and just go for the quick hitters like we use to and let our wr's get the extra yards

[swede]

Welcome dahammer 001. First of all, dahammer002 is going to be so pissed when he finds out you took his name.

Secondly, welcome to Packerrats.

Third, that is a good rant. It reads like you've been lumberjacking up in the north woods for the last 98 days with no one to talk to.

Fourth, you would have liked my father-in-law. You hold similar Packer views.

Fifth, stay away from Wist. He might be a little sunshiny for your taste.

[swede]

jordy is 6'3

our guys can run routes and catch the ball most of the time, a lot of those 6'4 guys can only run one or two routes

IMO, we need to stop going for the home run ball so many times and just go for the quick hitters like we use to and let our wr's get the extra yards

Red. Do we use the slant as much as we used to? If it is being used less, are opposing teams taking it away or is our offensive line taking it away by sucking in the middle?

[swede]

Red. Do we use the slant as much as we used to? If it is being used less, are opposing teams taking it away or is our offensive line taking it away by sucking in the middle?

Remember the time you were golfing with two other guys and that really pretty girl with the long brown legs joined the foursome and you sucked in your middle for nine holes. That was exhausting.

[red]

Remember the time you were golfing with two other guys and that really pretty girl with the long brown legs joined the foursome and you sucked in your middle for nine holes. That was exhausting.

i suck in my middle even for the ugly girls

i don't really know about the slants. it sure doesn't seem like we use them like we use to, and i have no clue why we don't. that use to be our bread and butter

[KYPack]

i suck in my middle even for the ugly girls

i don't really know about the slants. it sure doesn't seem like we use them like we use to, and i have no clue why we don't. that use to be our bread and butter

I don't "know" either, red & Swede.

But I do have a notion.

when we ran a lot of slants, we had the best 5 deep WR rotation in the league.

DD and Jennings were great at slants.

Now we are down to a big 3 and some fill-ins.

Slants get your ass hurt and we have gone away from 'em to keep the boys we have healthy.

We almost have to protect our guys from themselves.

Cobb, for instance, would catch a slant in front of a brick wall.

This is all IMHO, but I do feel it's a big factor.

[mraynrand]

Nice rant dahammer001. For your health, I am glad to know you aren't a Jacksonville fan. Just remember that the team on the other side of the ball is trying to win too (except for Jacksonville).

[Harlan Huckleby]

The organization drives me crazy with these six foot 300 lb. lineman they seem to find every year. This becomes a problem when you encounter physical teams like the Niners or Seahawks.
Well, they drafted a big guy with less than 40% body fat, Datone Jones in first round, and so far its been the old look-like-Tarzan-play-like-Jane story.

I'm fine with the D-line. They need more from Perry, who has been a downgrade from Walden.

[Upnorth]

Welcome aboard this little corner of insanity. I miss the screen pass as well and would love to see it included more.

[Patler]

Red. Do we use the slant as much as we used to? If it is being used less, are opposing teams taking it away or is our offensive line taking it away by sucking in the middle?


i suck in my middle even for the ugly girls

i don't really know about the slants. it sure doesn't seem like we use them like we use to, and i have no clue why we don't. that use to be our bread and butter


I don't "know" either, red & Swede.

But I do have a notion.

when we ran a lot of slants, we had the best 5 deep WR rotation in the league.

DD and Jennings were great at slants.

Now we are down to a big 3 and some fill-ins.

Slants get your ass hurt and we have gone away from 'em to keep the boys we have healthy.

We almost have to protect our guys from themselves.

Cobb, for instance, would catch a slant in front of a brick wall.

This is all IMHO, but I do feel it's a big factor.

Why fewer slants? MM gave us the answer in Rodgers' first year as a starter. He was asked about changes that were necessary when a new QB takes over. His response was that the basics of the offense would stay the same, but play calls would differ based on differences in what the different QBs do well and are most comfortable with. He gave two examples. He said (as we all knew) that Favre was very good at and very comfortable throwing slants, but that throw was not a particular strength of Rodgers. On the other hand, he said Rodgers was exceptional at midrange and deep sideline throws, which, he said, Favre was not particularly strong at.

So, with Rodgers, fewer slants and more sideline throws to Nelson!

[3irty1]

Why fewer slants? MM gave us the answer in Rodgers' first year as a starter. He was asked about changes that were necessary when a new QB takes over. His response was that the basics of the offense would stay the same, but play calls would differ based on differences in what the different QBs do well and are most comfortable with. He gave two examples. He said (as we all knew) that Favre was very good at and very comfortable throwing slants, but that throw was not a particular strength of Rodgers. On the other hand, he said Rodgers was exceptional at midrange and deep sideline throws, which, he said, Favre was not particularly strong at.

So, with Rodgers, fewer slants and more sideline throws to Nelson!

This. Slants were Favre's best throw. Rodgers best throw is that backshoulder throw along the sidelines.

[mraynrand]

I have a hard time believing that Rodgers struggles throwing a slant (physically). The trouble the Packers have with the slant is that teams like to jump the first window and if Rodgers holds until the second window, Rodgers typically is then investigating cloud shapes.

[Upnorth]

Watching the way opposing cbs play our wr looks like they try to take away the slant which might be a factor in the equation as well, but as we see the safeties two deep why are we not trying to use the screen more? The pass rush is usually aggressive and seeing the dl in our back field is normal so the screen should work.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I have a hard time believing that Rodgers struggles throwing a slant (physically). The trouble the Packers have with the slant is that teams like to jump the first window and if Rodgers holds until the second window, Rodgers typically is then investigating cloud shapes.

That was my first thought exactly.

[Pugger]

Well, they drafted a big guy with less than 40% body fat, Datone Jones in first round, and so far its been the old look-like-Tarzan-play-like-Jane story.

I'm fine with the D-line. They need more from Perry, who has been a downgrade from Walden.

For the first 3 games Jane had a bum ankle so lets see how she performs this Sunday.

[ThunderDan]

I have a hard time believing that Rodgers struggles throwing a slant (physically). The trouble the Packers have with the slant is that teams like to jump the first window and if Rodgers holds until the second window, Rodgers typically is then investigating cloud shapes.

Perfect example of this was in the SF game. SF showed a blitz with 7 men coming. ARod read the blitz perfectly and had Finley down the seem for a TD. Willis at the snap backed out of the blitz over the C, closed the throwing lane to Finley and knocked down the pass.

If ARod hadn't thrown to Finley right away he was eating the dirt.

[Patler]

I have a hard time believing that Rodgers struggles throwing a slant (physically). The trouble the Packers have with the slant is that teams like to jump the first window and if Rodgers holds until the second window, Rodgers typically is then investigating cloud shapes.

Who said he struggles with it? As a coach you play to your players strengths, and a players strength is sometimes determined by what he prefers or is most comfortable or confident in.

I doubt there is any throw that Rodgers actually struggles with. But I completely believe he prefers some to others, and may be better at some than others, even without "struggling" on any.

[red]

Why fewer slants? MM gave us the answer in Rodgers' first year as a starter. He was asked about changes that were necessary when a new QB takes over. His response was that the basics of the offense would stay the same, but play calls would differ based on differences in what the different QBs do well and are most comfortable with. He gave two examples. He said (as we all knew) that Favre was very good at and very comfortable throwing slants, but that throw was not a particular strength of Rodgers. On the other hand, he said Rodgers was exceptional at midrange and deep sideline throws, which, he said, Favre was not particularly strong at.

So, with Rodgers, fewer slants and more sideline throws to Nelson!

ah right

and we all know damn well that fat mike has an inability or is unwilling to teach anything new to anyone

[mraynrand]

Who said he struggles with it? As a coach you play to your players strengths, and a players strength is sometimes determined by what he prefers or is most comfortable or confident in.

I doubt there is any throw that Rodgers actually struggles with. But I completely believe he prefers some to others, and may be better at some than others, even without "struggling" on any.

Well then, let me rephrase: Rodgers has zero trouble throwing a slant. I have no absolutely no doubt he is more comfortable (physically) throwing a slant than most any equal or longer throw and is better at it than Favre. The Packers don't throw slants due to the way teams defend it and the propensity for sacks.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Well then, let me rephrase: Rodgers has zero trouble throwing a slant. I have no absolutely no doubt he is more comfortable (physically) throwing a slant than most any equal or longer throw and is better at it than Favre. The Packers don't throw slants due to the way teams defend it and the propensity for sacks.

Errr...That was my first thought exactly.

[pbmax]

Rodgers has also mentioned that the slant is part of a combo route package they run (its not the only time it can be run, but it is the most common call) called flat/slant concept.

Teams can choose to deploy coverages (Bears did this) to take this away, i.e. put maximum pressure on those two routes. The tendency for McCarthy and the Packers is then to audible or throw to the other routes. The defense has committed a LB and a CB to man coverage in short zones. That leaves the TE one on one versus a LB in the middle of the field and the opposite WR in single coverage with one safety over the top. The safety cannot cheat to the other WR because that would leave half the field open for the TE to run into OR the flat receiver to wheel into down the sideline.

McCarthy was probably speaking about QB preference over what to do about a defense deployed to stop what you are trying to run. He was deflecting attention about the choices of his two QBs to himself. Favre wouldn't care if you sat on the slant and would throw it anyway. Rodgers prefers targeting the weakness you just exposed by focusing on the other side.

The other problem here is that the best slant receiver is probably Jones now that Jennings is gone. And he is not as good as previous Favre targets at getting off drapery coverage and catching the ball away from the body. Witness the INT in Cincy.

[ThunderDan]

Well then, let me rephrase: Rodgers has zero trouble throwing a slant. I have no absolutely no doubt he is more comfortable (physically) throwing a slant than most any equal or longer throw and is better at it than Favre. The Packers don't throw slants due to the way teams defend it and the propensity for sacks.

Maybe the issue is with the WRs. The way James Jones gave up on the slant and cost the Pack an INT I would be afraid to throw them also.

[Carolina_Packer]

Here's a different slant. Too many members of our offensive line are getting pushed back into A-Rod's lap on pass pro. That's gotta get solved. My rant would be if P. Manning and Brady can have clean pockets and time to survey, then why can't Rodgers? Are the receivers not doing a good enough job getting open? Is A-Rod holding the ball to long deciding or does the o-line struggle as a whole with pass pro? MM would say pad level, I guess. If we can win more often than not on that front, A-Rod is going to have time to use his considerable skills and the receiving corp. will have time to get into their patterns.

[red]

Here's a different slant. Too many members of our offensive line are getting pushed back into A-Rod's lap on pass pro. That's gotta get solved. My rant would be if P. Manning and Brady can have clean pockets and time to survey, then why can't Rodgers? Are the receivers not doing a good enough job getting open? Is A-Rod holding the ball to long deciding or does the o-line struggle as a whole with pass pro? MM would say pad level, I guess. If we can win more often than not on that front, A-Rod is going to have time to use his considerable skills and the receiving corp. will have time to get into their patterns.

what i noticed, at least in the last game, was a QB who can't even complete his drop before he needs to worry about protecting the ball and moving

in years past you could put some blame on a-rod for holding the ball too long, or the WR's not getting open fast enough, but this year its all been on the o-line so far.

it just makes me sick watching a guy like peyton just sit there for 5, 6,7 seconds without having to worry about anything

[Patler]

Well then, let me rephrase: Rodgers has zero trouble throwing a slant. I have no absolutely no doubt he is more comfortable (physically) throwing a slant than most any equal or longer throw and is better at it than Favre. The Packers don't throw slants due to the way teams defend it and the propensity for sacks.

So MM lied about it during the Q&A years ago?

[pbmax]

So MM lied about it during the Q&A years ago?

There is a difference between ability to do something and comfort doing something. He probably did not want the focus to be on Rodgers' choice as a young QB, because it would immediately be cast as a limitation compared to Favre.

[mraynrand]

So MM lied about it during the Q&A years ago?

I guess so. I guess either MM had to be lying or you are totally wrong. There can be no other way to look at it.

[dahammer001]

Here's a different slant. Too many members of our offensive line are getting pushed back into A-Rod's lap on pass pro. That's gotta get solved. My rant would be if P. Manning and Brady can have clean pockets and time to survey, then why can't Rodgers? Are the receivers not doing a good enough job getting open? Is A-Rod holding the ball to long deciding or does the o-line struggle as a whole with pass pro? MM would say pad level, I guess. If we can win more often than not on that front, A-Rod is going to have time to use his considerable skills and the receiving corp. will have time to get into their patterns.

MM talks about pad level, gap integrity, and we gotta get this fixed. Here is what I do not understand! If I was MM, somebody on the offensive besides Marshall Newhouse would lose their job period end of story. The one pet peeve I have with Rodgers is that he holds the ball to long, I think a quicker release t would cut down on the sacks. Some packer fans seem to think that the wrs have a hard time getting open, remember James Jones caught 14 tds last years with people draped all over him!

[Fritz]

MM talks about pad level, gap integrity, and we gotta get this fixed. Here is what I do not understand! If I was MM, somebody on the offensive besides Marshall Newhouse would lose their job period end of story. The one pet peeve I have with Rodgers is that he holds the ball to long, I think a quicker release t would cut down on the sacks. Some packer fans seem to think that the wrs have a hard time getting open, remember James Jones caught 14 tds last years with people draped all over him!


I found the PF and PA numbers both interesting and surprising, given our general views of the team's offense and defense so far this year:



NFC NORTH W L T PF PA Pct.
Detroit 3 1 0 122 101 .750
Chicago 3 1 0 127 114 .750
Green Bay 1 2 0 96 88 .333
Minnesota 1 3 0 115 123 .250


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131004/SPORTS0101/310040058#ixzz2glH1NC5C


So...last in the NFC North in "points for" and first in the North in "points against."

Interesting. What does this tell us?

[Zool]

So...last in the NFC North in "points for" and first in the North in "points against."

Interesting. What does this tell us?

That they have played 1 less game than the other 3 teams?

[Fritz]

Superb. Yes.

Add 24 points to both sides of the ledger and it shows that both the offense and defense are respectively behind and ahead of the other teams in the division.

[Patler]

I guess so. I guess either MM had to be lying or you are totally wrong. There can be no other way to look at it.

I have been relaying this same story repeatedly since it was first published, when ever I respond to complaints about the lack of slants in the current Packer scheme. I can no longer find the link to the article, which I used to post each time. It was sometime during Rodger's first year as a starter, but I no longer remember if it was before, during or after that season. It was simply an interesting discussion of what we might expect to be different with Rodgers at QB than with Favre. MM talked about things that were similar, and things that were different. The discussion of favorite routes/throws has always stuck with me. Every time I see Rodgers connect with Nelson on the sidelines, I think to myself that it is his bread and butter play, just like the slant had been for Favre, and I remember that it is exactly what MM had said.

[Cheesehead Craig]

what i noticed, at least in the last game, was a QB who can't even complete his drop before he needs to worry about protecting the ball and moving

in years past you could put some blame on a-rod for holding the ball too long, or the WR's not getting open fast enough, but this year its all been on the o-line so far.

it just makes me sick watching a guy like peyton just sit there for 5, 6,7 seconds without having to worry about anything

Frankly, I think it's high time that OL coach Campen be let go. We have seen year after year that the OL cannot run block very well. Rodgers is in the tops of the league in being sacked time and time again. True, injuries have happened, but I'm not seeing improvement by any of the players out there and that's on coaching. There's been one constant on the OL and that's Campen and perhaps it's time for some new blood there to see if that works.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Superb. Yes.

Add 24 points to both sides of the ledger and it shows that both the offense and defense are respectively behind and ahead of the other teams in the division.

What exactly is your point? We're not special?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Frankly, I think it's high time that OL coach Campen be let go. We have seen year after year that the OL cannot run block very well. Rodgers is in the tops of the league in being sacked time and time again. True, injuries have happened, but I'm not seeing improvement by any of the players out there and that's on coaching. There's been one constant on the OL and that's Campen and perhaps it's time for some new blood there to see if that works.

Frankly, I have a hard time blaming Campen. Actually, the problem is endemic with this team and starts with Special Teams. Fire Slocum!

[mraynrand]

I have been relaying this same story repeatedly since it was first published, when ever I respond to complaints about the lack of slants in the current Packer scheme. I can no longer find the link to the article, which I used to post each time. It was sometime during Rodger's first year as a starter, but I no longer remember if it was before, during or after that season. It was simply an interesting discussion of what we might expect to be different with Rodgers at QB than with Favre. MM talked about things that were similar, and things that were different. The discussion of favorite routes/throws has always stuck with me. Every time I see Rodgers connect with Nelson on the sidelines, I think to myself that it is his bread and butter play, just like the slant had been for Favre, and I remember that it is exactly what MM had said.

I have no doubt this article exists and that you read it properly. Another view may be that MM changed the offense to stress vertical routes with Rodgers because Rodgers has such great deep accuracy and Favre didn't. There are other factors like how teams defend the slant, pass rush, etc. etc. that also play in. I just wanted to make the point that my guess is that it is all these things, rather than any deficiency on Rodger's part in being able to throw the slant. One possibility though is that Rodgers doesn't read the coverage on the slant as well as Favre did. While both have been burned by LBs jumping in that first window or disguising a pass rush and dropping back, maybe Rodgers is more susceptible. I don't have any numbers to back that up, only that I've seen both get burned, but Favre more, probably because he threw more.

[mraynrand]

Frankly, I think it's high time that OL coach Campen be let go. We have seen year after year that the OL cannot run block very well. Rodgers is in the tops of the league in being sacked time and time again. True, injuries have happened, but I'm not seeing improvement by any of the players out there and that's on coaching. There's been one constant on the OL and that's Campen and perhaps it's time for some new blood there to see if that works.

I'm not sure about this with Re: to Campen. But it is the coaching in general. For evidence I submit last year's game against Seattle. The first half focus on pass only was getting Rodgers killed and killing drives. An adjustment to the run game in the second have turned the tide. That's not on Campen, it's on Stubby. The key is finding that balance. Stubby wants big plays/quick hit scores - thus the vertical game and now the hurry up. He sometimes seems to forget that the defense game plans too, and that they know of his tendency to eschew the run. The O-line is probably average/below average compared across the league, and making them one-dimensional doesn't help them.

[Fritz]

What exactly is your point? We're not special?

My point is that perhaps we're wrong about both sides of the ball: the offense isn't as good as we thought, and the defense not as bad.

[pbmax]

Frankly, I think it's high time that OL coach Campen be let go. We have seen year after year that the OL cannot run block very well. Rodgers is in the tops of the league in being sacked time and time again. True, injuries have happened, but I'm not seeing improvement by any of the players out there and that's on coaching. There's been one constant on the OL and that's Campen and perhaps it's time for some new blood there to see if that works.

Their run blocking this year is as good as its been since late 2007 and late 2010. It might prove to be better than both years before this is over. Right now, its pass blocking that is suffering and that is a deficiency of talent at right tackle mainly. Bach has done well enough its next to impossible to say he is as shaky as Newhouse.

[Patler]

I have no doubt this article exists and that you read it properly. Another view may be that MM changed the offense to stress vertical routes with Rodgers because Rodgers has such great deep accuracy and Favre didn't. There are other factors like how teams defend the slant, pass rush, etc. etc. that also play in. I just wanted to make the point that my guess is that it is all these things, rather than any deficiency on Rodger's part in being able to throw the slant. One possibility though is that Rodgers doesn't read the coverage on the slant as well as Favre did. While both have been burned by LBs jumping in that first window or disguising a pass rush and dropping back, maybe Rodgers is more susceptible. I don't have any numbers to back that up, only that I've seen both get burned, but Favre more, probably because he threw more.

I didn't (and don't) disagree with all the other factors, I just wanted to point out that we were warned it would change, and we probably shouldn't expect it to change back.

Throwing well for a particular route is much more than just a physical ability to throw the ball. It is all the things you now mentioned, and probably more. Favre threw slants very, very well. right up to the time he left. I find it hard to believe that after years and years of Favre burning defenses on slants over and over again, they finally decided to do something significantly different to take slants away only after Favre left. I suspect that if defenses were still doing what they are, and our QB was a 30 year old Favre, he would still find ways of completing them. He completed them in tight coverage all the time, often just powering the ball past defenders in tight coverage who simply could not react quick enough.

I found it particularly interesting that MM mentioned two routes in the discussion, and we now see things playing out pretty much as he suggested way back when. Why don't we see slants as much? Probably because with Favre it might have been what he did absolutely the best, so they went to it whenever they could; and Rodgers throws other things better, so now they go to those instead.

For all his talent and accomplishments, in some ways Favre was limited. He didn't throw sideline patterns particularly well, and was known for sailing throws over receiver's heads, particularly in his younger years. He was not particularly accurate on deep throws either; but on throws in the middle of the field from short to mid range, he had laser accuracy, and the velocity to get it to the receiver before a defender could react, even if coverage was good. Rodgers is more versatile, so nothing is used as frequently.

[mraynrand]

slants were kinda feast or famine with Favre. Jennings when he tied the TD record against SD in 2007: Feast. Throwing a pick to London Fletcher at Buffalo in 2005: famine. Receivers also make a difference. You make good points there Patler. At this point, I'm going to give my final view on the subject (free from consideration of Favre): MM went to other throws because Rodgers could make them and MM thought they had bigger play potential. I say this mostly because I've been impressed with Rodgers' ability to consistently make deep throws down the field, back shoulder throws, and sideline tosses, or combinations of these where it looks like he's handing the ball to the receiver.

[Guiness]

I think it's a matter of working with the strengths of the player. Favre, IMO, had a combination of accuracy and a rocket arm on those throws like no other, before or since...well, maybe Elway. That allowed him to make those throws over the middle that I'm really not sure Rodgers could.

Rodgers certainly doesn't lack for arm strength, and I think the three QBs in the NFC North not named Ponder probably have the liveliest arms in the league right now...but none of them have the pop that Favre did.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think people are exaggerating the demise of the slant under (and because of) Aaron Rodgers. Nelson has already caught two TDs and Cobb one TD this year on slants. The truth is that Jennings was by far our best route runner on the slant. He caught a lot of slants from both Favre and Rodgers. If my memory is correct, Jennings killed the Bears early in the 2010 NFC Championship Game on that route. I think in general you see less slant routes in football, but it has nothing to do with an inability of Rodgers to throw the route. I think there's some risk ot the route. It's a route that can get receivers blown up. It's also a route that can get jumped and intercepted relatively easily.

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Aaron-Rodgers-hits-Jordy-Nelson-for-14-yard-TD/26115ea7-3bc9-4375-82ff-8fa9e243db21
http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/QB-Aaron-Rodgers-8-yard-touchdown-pass-to-Nelson/4d5f60f1-e63c-4243-9ed2-8f73772cfc8a
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000061551/Jordy-Nelson-26-yard-gain
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000245392/QB-Rodgers-to-WR-Cobb-35-yd-pass-TD-4th-down-conversion
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap1000000077767/Cobb-31-yard-TD-grab

[Guiness]

I was thinking about the interceptions - the way that Urlacher seemed to come up with a big INT against the Pack every year. I wonder if after years of watching the Pack throw he learned to read it??? He probably saw more of it than any other single player.

If we're talking about throws that have disappeared from the Packer's offense, it's the screen pass we should lament. I really miss watching Ahman Green catch the ball behind the DL and turn upfield for big, bruising gains. Seems to me the problem there was the right kind of back. How are Lacy's hands?

[George Cumby]

I was thinking about the interceptions - the way that Urlacher seemed to come up with a big INT against the Pack every year. I wonder if after years of watching the Pack throw he learned to read it??? He probably saw more of it than any other single player.

If we're talking about throws that have disappeared from the Packer's offense, it's the screen pass we should lament. I really miss watching Ahman Green catch the ball behind the DL and turn upfield for big, bruising gains. Seems to me the problem there was the right kind of back. How are Lacy's hands?


I think we'll see more of the screen. I think both the rooks are capable of running it.

I get all quivery thinking about Lacy barreling downfield with a full head of steam.

[Upnorth]

I would like to see more screen passes as well, both because lacy looks awesome in space, but also because it may make the pass rush second guess them selves.

[dahammer001]

I would like to see more screen passes as well, both because lacy looks awesome in space, but also because it may make the pass rush second guess them selves.



I agree with your analysis. The Seahawks just released Stephen Williams(6ft 5inches) wr that can catch and stretch the field vertically. We need to sign him as soon as possible.

[mraynrand]

I agree with your analysis. The Seahawks just released Stephen Williams(6ft 5inches) wr that can catch and stretch the field vertically. We need to sign him as soon as possible.


Why would Seattle release such a threat that GB can use? Doesn't he need to pass through waivers? Why would you sign him for deep passes that stretch the field and require the QB to remain in the pocket longer when you advocate at the same time for screens to slow down that pass rush?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Maybe Williams is adept at running slants?

[Upnorth]

I agree with your analysis. The Seahawks just released Stephen Williams(6ft 5inches) wr that can catch and stretch the field vertically. We need to sign him as soon as possible.

I don't think the packers need help on the wr front, we have one of the best groups in the league. I do think the screen could work well with lacy.

[dahammer001]

After Randall Cobb,James Jones and Jordy Nelson who else do we have available in an emergency?

[pbmax]

I don't think the packers need help on the wr front, we have one of the best groups in the league. I do think the screen could work well with lacy.

They are going to need some young depth next year. With Ross gone (not sure how much he fit into WR picture regardless), there is Boykin, Johnson (PS) and Myles White (PS) and Reggie Dunn (PS). Dunn was mainly signed for returner I think.

Now I suppose that ANY spot on the roster that you read 7 deep will look like it can use some depth. But this is as bare as the #5 spot has been in some time.

[red]

After Randall Cobb,James Jones and Jordy Nelson who else do we have available in an emergency?

and not to stir the pot even more, but......

jones is in the last year of his contract, gonna need to pay him good money to keep him. and cobb will be entering the final year of his rookie deal, its gonna be time to pay him big money too.

they might not pay both of those guys. we could be going into next season with just jordy and cobb or jordy and jones if we trade cobb. we could have gone from 5 or 6 deep at WR last year down to just 2 deep by next season.

this was one of the main issues i brought up last season during the "keep finley or jennings" debates before jennings burned his bridges. we can get real thin really fast at WR if we aren't careful

[Pugger]

Frankly, I think it's high time that OL coach Campen be let go. We have seen year after year that the OL cannot run block very well. Rodgers is in the tops of the league in being sacked time and time again. True, injuries have happened, but I'm not seeing improvement by any of the players out there and that's on coaching. There's been one constant on the OL and that's Campen and perhaps it's time for some new blood there to see if that works.

Saying we don't run block very well would not be accurate this season. Pass pro is another story entirely.

[Pugger]

Their run blocking this year is as good as its been since late 2007 and late 2010. It might prove to be better than both years before this is over. Right now, its pass blocking that is suffering and that is a deficiency of talent at right tackle mainly. Bach has done well enough its next to impossible to say he is as shaky as Newhouse.

Would Newhouse be a better option at RT even tho he struggled mightily at LT?

[Joemailman]

Saying we don't run block very well would not be accurate this season. Pass pro is another story entirely.

Packers are #2 in rushing yards per attempt. They're averaging almost 130 yards per game rushing which puts them at about #8.

[pbmax]

Would Newhouse be a better option at RT even tho he struggled mightily at LT?

Don't think so, though Newhouse has not spent much recent time there that I have seen. He did spend some camp time on the right. He's got great feet but isn't bigger than Barclay. He engages early but then relents and doesn't follow, while Barclay is tenacious. Neither has a great punch and both could have a better anchor. Barclay is the better run blocker by a good measure if you compare him on right and Newhouse on left last year.

Barclay got worked early in the Washington game by a one armed stiff arm-bull rush from Ryan Kerrigan. He seemed to adjust after that and did not spend much time in ARods lap. I just think he is close enough to Newhouse that you let him play and get better. Hopefully. Or replace him with Sherrod in Week 8 :lol: