More Banjo: Week 5 Lions Aftermath

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 1h
#Packers averaging 5.3 per carry. 3.8 and 3.9 in 2010, 2011 and 2012.


OK, so which is it? Running Back or Offensive Line?

[swede]

Both. Lean goes to RB this year.

[Pugger]

The really good backs can make something out of nothing.

[Packers4Glory]

and yet we still throw on 3rd and 1. fuck sustaining a drive!

[pbmax]

From Advanced Football Stats: http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamstatvisualization.php

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/leagueVizAFS.png

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm sure someone will point out that Cobb's run slightly skews the stats, but given he was part of the running game last year it counts.

Even though I brought up getting rid of Campen, I'm going to go with the OL is improved this year. When 3 different backs can get 100 yds (yeah, Lacy had 99 but close enough) then that shows the OL is doing a good job with the run blocking.

[Maxie the Taxi]

From Advanced Football Stats: http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamstatvisualization.php

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/leagueVizAFS.png

Time to cover the other eye?

[ThunderDan]

We ran out a lot of 3 WR sets from the shotgun formation. Not a lot of runs with Rodgers under center. Maybe this is how they cover up for EDS.

[pbmax]

We ran out a lot of 3 WR sets from the shotgun formation. Not a lot of runs with Rodgers under center. Maybe this is how they cover up for EDS.

I agree that they are not yet a power running team. But you can do a lot of damage in 3WR-1RB-1TE if you can run. Just ask Peyton. It also allows them to run an inside zone run play action and then throw out of it. Can also run pistol for traditional play action.

I did not see too much traditional ZBS yesterday, so I think that was the concession to the Detroit front line and EDS. JSO said EDS was just fine on double teams and coming off to get LBs. It might be the reach block in ZBS is the problem.

[pbmax]

Time to cover the other eye?

Yes, but if you really want to be dizzy, try to discern (from the chart only) who is better: SD, GB, IND, NO or Seattle.

[Upnorth]

From Advanced Football Stats: http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamstatvisualization.php

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/leagueVizAFS.png

So this shows total Off vrs total Def, not isolating for run.

HEre is the link that lets you O run vrs O pass and Def Run vrs D pass
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamstatvisualization.php

Also all of our backs are playing better this year so that makes me lean towards the line.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I lean 100% towards improved run blocking by the line and others.

[bobblehead]

Both. Lean goes to RB this year.

so, franklin was abysmal through camp and our running game has stalled with starks many times in the past, but suddenly both look like world beaters and its the RB's?

I simply disagree. Committment to the run and linemen who are better at run blocking than pass blocking is the big difference.

[run pMc]

Lacy and Franklin are an upgrade over Cedric Benson, but I vote OLine.
The clincher for me is that Starks was on the roster last year and he didn't break 100 last year but had two good back to back outings (WAS and against CIN before he got hurt) this year. I've read that Bahktiari is pretty mobile and able to get out and block on the run, and while I'm not sold on EDS he's an upgrade over a washed up Jeff Saturday. In other words, upgrades at C and LT in run blocking.

[CaptainKickass]

Oline all the way. A good to great RB can make something out of nothing, but he won't be doing jack shit without them big boys out front.

[Brandon494]

Its clearly a combination of both, O-line is blocking better and we don't have Green or Kuhn running the ball this year.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I don't think anyone is arguing that a RB can function without an OL. The question is what makes your running game marginally better. The same old RB and an improved OL? Or the same old OL and an improved RB. I say RB. Minn has the same old OL whether its Toby Gerhardt or AP at RB. Why do they let AP have most of the carries?

[Fritz]

Speaking of Banjo - which I thought this thread was - how'd he play? I watch the games more like a fan, so I don't really follow particular players.

All I know is that a free agent guy has beaten out Jerron McMillan for the backup safety spot. Doh~!

If the lights don't go on for McMillan next training camp, I think he'll be long gone.

[Fritz]

I don't think anyone is arguing that a RB can function without an OL. The question is what makes your running game marginally better. The same old RB and an improved OL? Or the same old OL and an improved RB. I say RB. Minn has the same old OL whether its Toby Gerhardt or AP at RB. Why do they let AP have most of the carries?

I think the offensive line in Minny plays magically better when AP has the ball. It's the o-line, Maxi. Your mom could run behind a good o-line, and she probably can't even run.

[Guiness]

Anyone hear why CJ Wilson was out for the game? That surprised me, I thought he'd been a solid presence. Was he a healthy scratch?

[Fritz]

I think so. That's the second time this season he's been a healthy scratch. Weird, huh?

[pbmax]

More Banjo - yes about Banjo but also about postgame effluvia in general. Answering questions the game or commentary raised, etc.

Banjo did play but his biggest moment was a personal foul I think. Only saw dime snaps at deep safety. Doc Jennings was busy not tackling deep in base and nickel, McMillan was dime slot CB.

CJ Wilson was inactive because Packers wanted to run jumbo nickel (Raji/Pickett) and did not expect to play much base thereby reducing need to relieve Jolly.

I think Starks success points to the O line being the difference.

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-the-lions-b99115036z1-226852321.html

Bob weighs in. No blitz percentages so Harlan and I will have to continue to disagree unless someone has a subscription to Pro Football Focus.

Best games according to Bob? Crosby, Masthay and the O Line. Only Bach showed serious signs of struggle (charged with allowing 5 pressures).

Worst games? Not so Special Teams and the Secondary.

Point of contention? Dinging Lacy for going down easy on frontal shots by safeties. I remember two of those and he went down because he was dragging along a hitchhiking defender when he was about to be popped.

[pbmax]

A complete primer on 4th down calls.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/62665328/

Be careful, the fullback dive receives a favorable review.

[hoosier]

Both. Lean goes to RB this year.

Ain't no lean in that backfield this year, son. http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18veasar4tan6jpg/k-bigpic.jpg

[hoosier]

I don't think anyone is arguing that a RB can function without an OL. The question is what makes your running game marginally better. The same old RB and an improved OL? Or the same old OL and an improved RB. I say RB. Minn has the same old OL whether its Toby Gerhardt or AP at RB. Why do they let AP have most of the carries?

I would like to argue that. My first and last piece of evidence is Barry Sanders.

As for the marginal improvement matter, Peterson's success compared with Gerhart suggests it's the running back, but then how do you explain the fact that Ahman Green's success in the Sherman years was pretty much duplicated (YPC with fewer carries of course) by lesser backs like Davenport and Fisher?

[hoosier]

Point of contention? Dinging Lacy for going down easy on frontal shots by safeties. I remember two of those and he went down because he was dragging along a hitchhiking defender when he was about to be popped.

I have to agree with McGinn, there were several times in the first half when Lacy went backwards or got stopped dead by the safety, and I didn't see him dragging any riff raff when he got hit.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bob weighs in. No blitz percentages so Harlan and I will have to continue to disagree unless someone has a subscription to Pro Football Focus.

All I have on my side of the argument are the facts. I fast-forwarded through the whole game tape, and the Packers rushed 5 or 6 significantly more often than they rushed 4. I count 5 rushers as a blitz. If I was wrong I would not admit it, I would quietly drop the subject. But no need to hide on this one.

[swede]

I have to agree with McGinn, there were several times in the first half when Lacy went backwards or got stopped dead by the safety, and I didn't see him dragging any riff raff when he got hit.

He may need some time to get his head right over having his head wrong. I agree that his last game produced tape with enough correctable errors for him to look at and consider that he could still do better.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I would like to argue that. My first and last piece of evidence is Barry Sanders.

As for the marginal improvement matter, Peterson's success compared with Gerhart suggests it's the running back, but then how do you explain the fact that Ahman Green's success in the Sherman years was pretty much duplicated (YPC with fewer carries of course) by lesser backs like Davenport and Fisher?

Maybe they weren't really "lesser backs." Or maybe the sample size ain't big enough. Damn statistics!!!! :???:

[Packers4Glory]

I think the dumb announcers originally said Banjo committed the person foul but it was actually McMillian