Official packers - browns game thread 10/20/2013

[Rastak]

get up you pussy its a contract year!

Lame dude.

[pbmax]

Finley wasn't defenseless, I actually like the call (ridiculous hit) but that is not how the rule is written.

Or maybe not so ridiculous. That was a shoulder hit. Finley did not do a good job of protecting himself, but he was pretty tied up.

But Wilcox is wrong, Finley was concussed when he hit his head into the turf.

[Teamcheez1]

Are these announcers really trying to justify that hit? What a bunch of morons.

[pbmax]

31 yard line it would have been a 48 yard field goal attempt.

Maybe doubts about the kicker or the wind direction?

[PA Pack Fan]

oh shit......

[Rastak]

Are these announcers really trying to justify that hit? What a bunch of morons.


What?

He hit him with his shoulder. Last I checked tackles are allowed....

[pbmax]

I wish they trusted Franklin in there. Really amps up threat of wide run or draw.

And a nice Boykin catch and run.

[Teamcheez1]

What?

He hit him with his shoulder. Last I checked tackles are allowed....

He hit him in the head. Case closed.

[gbgary]

way to go boykin!

[pbmax]

Wow, what a jump cut on a slippery surface.

[pittstang5]

No reason to take a timeout 1st and goal at the one. run it up the gut!

[pbmax]

He hit him in the head. Case closed.

I agree (should not be allowed) but that isn't the rule. Finley wasn't defenseless.

[ThunderDan]

What?

He hit him with his shoulder. Last I checked tackles are allowed....

Not in the first half.

[pbmax]

Rodgers like Favre in one respect. Doesn't care about the CB's reputation. Love it.

[Rutnstrut]

Or maybe not so ridiculous. That was a shoulder hit. Finley did not do a good job of protecting himself, but he was pretty tied up.

But Wilcox is wrong, Finley was concussed when he hit his head into the turf.

I agree Fin was hurt when he hit the turf, I however think it was a clean hit.

[gbgary]

Needed that!!

[pbmax]

No reason to take a timeout 1st and goal at the one. run it up the gut!

If you saw the NT just eat EDS lunch on that TD pass, you might rethink :lol:

[ThunderDan]

As soon as the hit was made I knew it should 15 yards. Finley was already wrapped up and going to the ground there was no need for the second Cle player to drill Finley.

[gbgary]

I agree Fin was hurt when he hit the turf, I however think it was a clean hit.

Disagree. I think he was hurt when the helmets met. Jammed his neck.

[Rastak]

He hit him in the head. Case closed.


Allowed. Check the rules.

[Rutnstrut]

Are these announcers really trying to justify that hit? What a bunch of morons.

Perhaps pairs figure skating would be more your speed. This is TACKLE football.

[pbmax]

That was the same KO call that didn't work in the first half.

[pittstang5]

God damn you Sp teams and God Damn you Slocum!

[ThunderDan]

Another special teams fuck up. Slocum has to go.

[Rastak]

Hyde is quick!

[pbmax]

Disagree. I think he was hurt when the helmets met. Jammed his neck.

I think Rut meant he was ALREADY hurt when hit turf.

[pittstang5]

We just can't put teams away.

[Teamcheez1]

Allowed. Check the rules.

In your judgement, not the NFL's. Better luck next time , charlie.

[pbmax]

Hyde is quick!

And that is supposed to be his weak point.

[gbgary]

I think Rut meant he was ALREADY hurt when hit turf.

Ah...ok. my bad.

[Rutnstrut]

I think Rut meant he was ALREADY hurt when hit turf.

Yup, that's what I meant.

[pittstang5]

stupid

[pbmax]

I love House.

http://girlsjustwanna.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/brick-300x222.jpg

[Packers4Glory]

Are these announcers really trying to justify that hit? What a bunch of morons.

not add bad add justifying 4th and long when it puts you a td and 2pr conversion from a tie

[ThunderDan]

Onside kick coming.

[pbmax]

Speechless.

[ThunderDan]

not add bad add justifying 4th and long when it puts you a td and 2pr conversion from a tie

And the announcer said even with FG they would need two scores even though they would be down 8.

[pbmax]

Myles White. Inexperience is coming up big now.

[pittstang5]

you have to be kidding me!!! FALL ON THE BALL!!!!!!!

[KalamazooPackerFan]

Lucky break

[ThunderDan]

Another special teams issue luckily covered up by a penalty.

[pbmax]

Now THAT was a great special team play, Packers didn't touch ball when it was short of going 10 yards.

[pittstang5]

THis is a disgrace!!!!

[KalamazooPackerFan]

Does Slocum moonlight as the Browns special teams coach?

[Bretsky]

is it me...or do we look clueless there ? Well I don't think we touched it

[Bretsky]

Now THAT was a great special team play, Packers didn't touch ball when it was short of going 10 yards.


AS LONG AS THE SPECIALS TEAMS DON'T PLAY WE ARE OK....lol

[pbmax]

is it me...or do we look clueless there ? Well I don't think we touched it

Once the ball hit and went sideways, they could not afford to grab it unless they were alone on it. They weren't.

Restraint at that point was the best plan.

[pittstang5]

pathetic

[ThunderDan]

Our special teams look like a high school team.

[pbmax]

Nice call. :D

[Bretsky]

How'd that not kicking the FG work ?

If MM did that to us.....we'd be lighting his ass up right now !

[pbmax]

Goof grief is Lacy patient.

[ThunderDan]

Lacy has great vision.

[pbmax]

All Boykin does is score Touchdowns!

[Teamcheez1]

Kind of tired of the announcers second-guessing every penalty against the Browns.

[SMBASS]

How'd that not kicking the FG work ?

If MM did that to us.....we'd be lighting his ass up right now !


MM needs to have his ass lit up for plenty of other things IMO.

[pbmax]

Putting 31 points on this Cleveland defense in the rain is not a bad day for the offense.

[pittstang5]

Our special teams look like a high school team.


THat's selling high school teams short. they're are worse than that. But we are stuck with slocum for the rest of this year. MM will not get rid of that piece of shit this year

[pbmax]

I think Special Teams are missing all the linebackers.

[ThunderDan]

Another huge kick return against us.

[Joemailman]

Nice comeback game by Boykin. He's going to get a real chance to show he belongs. I wonder if he can impact how much the Packers will offer James Jones in FA.

[pbmax]

TWill with nice tackle short of OOB

[pittstang5]

MM better pull slocum into his office right after this game and lay some god damn smack down. This is unacceptable!

[Joemailman]

I think Special Teams are missing all the linebackers.

Yep.

[pbmax]

Jones and Neal are getting a little movement in this nickel pass rush, but haven't got home yet.

[pbmax]

MM better pull slocum into his office right after this game and lay some god damn smack down. This is unacceptable!

No fan of Sloum, but he is down several starters on his teams.

[channtheman]

Boykin looks pretty good when Rodgers actually throws the ball to him and not 3 feet to the left and low.

Oh yeah, DAAABBLE check. Anyone else tired of this fuckin commerical yet?

[ThunderDan]

Lattimore and Hawk with a dozen tackles each.

[Guiness]

Someone seems to have lit a fire under him.

He quietly had a very good season last year as well. All of the D is playing better so his contribution are more apparent.

[channtheman]

Putting 31 points on this Cleveland defense in the rain is not a bad day for the offense.


It's odd because it does not feel at all like the offense played very well this game.

[pbmax]

Boyd in there and Jones and Neal run a nice stunt.

[pittstang5]

No fan of Sloum, but he is down several starters on his teams.

Ok, so we squip it - don't let them have a chance to return it. Hell, those last two, I'd rather have a kick out of bounds.

[pbmax]

That was a poor choice of positioning on the sideline catch.

[ThunderDan]

Holding on Cle and no call.

[Rastak]

It's odd because it does not feel at all like the offense played very well this game.


Browns have a pretty good defense so I'd say they did pretty damn well.

I hear what you're saying though.....you guys are sort of spoiled.....

[gbgary]

Mike Vandermuse (sp) said fin has neck injury...full movement.

[Joemailman]

Almost a pick by Banjo.

[pbmax]

Palmer drive a Guard into Weeden's lap.

[Guiness]

What?

He hit him with his shoulder. Last I checked tackles are allowed....

Were you checking with the NFL? Cause I'm not so sure...

[Rastak]

Holding on Cle and no call.

I don't think they call that anymore. :wink:

[pbmax]

That was a cannon shot.

[Rastak]

Were you checking with the NFL? Cause I'm not so sure...


Can't hit a defenseless player in the head is the rule, he caught the ball, took two steps, lowered his head and git hit with a shoulder......I didn't see how that violated any rules.

[ThunderDan]

I don't think they call that anymore. :wink:

The pack had at least 3 called on us.

[pbmax]

Going to have to punt.

[channtheman]

Cleveland seriously just called timeout. Man, what a joke of a head coach. Doesn't kick a field goal to put his team down 8, but calls a timeout down 18 with 31 seconds left. What a fuckin moron.

[Freak Out]

Why is Cleveland calling TOs?

[pbmax]

Game over on penalty.

[Rastak]

The pack had at least 3 called on us.


Those were obvious.....well, at least one. :-o I hate the fact they don't call it more just to get OL to stop grabbing defensive players every damn play.

[pbmax]

Why is Cleveland calling TOs?

Never SURRENDER!

[Guiness]

I don't understand why Rodgers is in in a situation like this. Isn't is a perfect time to put our backup QB, who has not been on the field with the team all season, a few live reps? I mean, look at what happened when Harrell was forced into action, he even messed up a handoff.

[pittstang5]

Cleveland seriously just called timeout. Man, what a joke of a head coach. Doesn't kick a field goal to put his team down 8, but calls a timeout down 18 with 31 seconds left. What a fuckin moron.

I don't get the timeouts either. whatever

[Freak Out]

So any word on Fin?

[ThunderDan]

Well we are now 4-2. With two wins in the next two weeks we will be squarely on top of the division.

[Tony Oday]

If we have anymore wins like this we wont have a recieving corp...

[Bretsky]

No fan of Sloum, but he is down several starters on his teams.


Like the Offense ????

[red]

end of game thoughts

-see my thread on finley

- special teams is an absolute disaster, its not fair for our defense or offense to have to share the same field with them. and what gives with all the pushing-shoving and whatnot the we're doing after every extra point or field goal? they will end up costing us games at some point

- great game by boykins to step up today after the sub par game he had last week

- i was very surprised by the game plan today. i was expecting a run heavey attack with the depleted receiving core and the condition, instead we saw a pass heavy attack

- man does weedon and his receiving crew suck. he can't throw, and when he does his guys can't catch

- i thought the young LB's had a very good game. lattimore is a real keep, and mulumbo might end up being a very good player too

i'll think of more in a bit

[red]

Like the Offense ????

some of those same players were also excelling on defense in their first real game action

the players are not the problem, there's always one constant on special teams, the coach

[Bretsky]

Very high on Mulumbo from what I've seen so far

[Guiness]

Can't hit a defenseless player in the head is the rule, he caught the ball, took two steps, lowered his head and git hit with a shoulder......I didn't see how that violated any rules.

I was trying to be facetious wrt your comment that tackling is still allowed. Because sometimes I wonder :eyes:

[red]

did he really lead with the helmet ??

i thought it was a bad call

if anything, it was the crown of finley's helmet hitting the side of the browns player. this is the problem now. finley got really low after catching the ball, the defender really had no place to hit him. if finley had remained standing the defender would have hit him in the knees if not lower

[Harlan Huckleby]

At the beginning of the game, they showed Myles White on the sidelines standing around the bench. In those weird uniforms, I didn't notice he was a player, especially since he has small shoulder pads. I thought "Is that the water boy?" Then I came to my senses and realized of course it was a player, must be kicker.

Anyway, my observation form the game is that Myles White is too young and skinny to play pro football.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Very high on Mulumbo from what I've seen so far

God, I kept watching him, saw nothing. Maybe I fell asleep during his big plays.

[red]

Hyde is quick!

yeah, hyde was suppose to be way too slow, thats why we were all scared of him, he wasn't suppose to have the quickness to stay with Wr's

sure seems like he has more then enough speed to me

[red]

At the beginning of the game, they showed Myles White on the sidelines standing around the bench. In those weird uniforms, I didn't notice he was a player, especially since he has small shoulder pads. I thought "Is that the water boy?" Then I came to my senses and realized of course it was a player, must be kicker.

Anyway, my observation form the game is that Myles White is too young and skinny to play pro football.

he does look like he's about 12

[Joemailman]

Tramon Williams was Packers 4th best CB today. And that's with Hayward out. I think he's on his farewell tour.

[ThunderDan]

i thought it was a bad call

if anything, it was the crown of finley's helmet hitting the side of the browns player. this is the problem now. finley got really low after catching the ball, the defender really had no place to hit him. if finley had remained standing the defender would have hit him in the knees if not lower

Finley was wrapped up and in the process of going to the ground. There was no reason for the Cle player to stick his shoulder in there. If Tramon's play was 15 yards than this one was also.

[Brandon494]

Glad to see my boy Boykin have a good game after struggling last week. Also very impressed with the defense, shutting down Josh Gordon is no easy task even if it is Weeden throwing the ball.

[Joemailman]

Finley was wrapped up and in the process of going to the ground. There was no reason for the Cle player to stick his shoulder in there. If Tramon's play was 15 yards than this one was also.

Finley was not down. If You're going to he can't make contact with Finley's head, then you're basically saying he's not allowed to tackle Finley. The position of Finley's body made it virtually impossible to avoid contact with the head.

[ThunderDan]

Finley was not down. If You're going to he can't make contact with Finley's head, then you're basically saying he's not allowed to tackle Finley. The position of Finley's body made it virtually impossible to avoid contact with the head.

He was in the process of going down, there was another Cleveland player with Finley's legs wrapped up riding him to the turf. Then 39 came in and whacked Finley in the head with his shoulder.

[red]

He was in the process of going down, there was another Cleveland player with Finley's legs wrapped up riding him to the turf.

i don't see it that way, finley had a guy kind on him, but fin is the one that dropped his head

i will also say that the ground did not cause the injury, he was out before he hit the ground, his arms wen't even try to break his fall and i think the ball was even coming out before his head hit the ground

the head twitching while he was on the ground is what scared me

and if you're gonna say that a defender can't hit a player while another defender is in the middle of tackling him, then there should be a 15 yard penalty called on almost every play

[ThunderDan]

and if you're gonna say that a defender can't hit a player while another defender is in the middle of tackling him, then there should be a 15 yard penalty called on almost every play

Just not in the head while in the process of being tackled. The NFL said it was going to clean up this kind of play during the offseason. There were a lot of unnecessary roughness penalties called during the preseason for just this. Also for an OL coming in and drilling a defensive player in the tackling pile.

Neither has been called during the regular season.

[pbmax]

Like the Offense ????

Worse on ST and no Rodgers to paper over the holes. Masthay could have helped but whatever he was doing while punting/kicking away from the Cleveland returner they feared was killing his length of kicks.

[red]

Worse on ST and no Rodgers to paper over the holes. Masthay could have helped but whatever he was doing while punting/kicking away from the Cleveland returner they feared was killing his length of kicks.

it didn't help that his best punt of the day, was called back by stupidity and resulted in his worst kick of the day

[pbmax]

and if you're gonna say that a defender can't hit a player while another defender is in the middle of tackling him, then there should be a 15 yard penalty called on almost every play

Just not a shot to the head.

[red]

Just not a shot to the head.

i'm not sure it was

if i had to lay blame, i'd say it was finley leading with his head. the browns player was making a textbook tackle IMO, shoulder to the midsection and his head to the outside of the body, when finley brought his head right into the path of the browns players head.

like i said in the other thread, it was the crown of finley's helmet hitting the side of the browns players helmet, not vice versa

[pbmax]

i'm not sure it was

if i had to lay blame, i'd say it was finley leading with his head. the browns player was making a textbook tackle IMO, shoulder to the midsection and his head to the outside of the body, when finley brought his head right into the path of the browns players head.

like i said in the other thread, it was the crown of finley's helmet hitting the side of the browns players helmet, not vice versa

I don't know how it can be a text book tackle when he led with a shoulder and didn't look to wrap up. He just dived with his shoulder. Those kind of hits are the ones that need to go.

I'll grant that this one would be hard to legislate because legit tackles often make contact with a helmet (see Nick Perry on Luck last year) but I would even be willing to give refs latitude on unnecessary roughness to allow them to call the dive bombers and let the form tackling slide. But that would cause an uproar.

[red]

i just don't see what else the defender could do there, unless like thunder dan said he just tries to pull up toavoid a hit and hope that finley doesn't regains his balance or break the tackle and keep going

there's a chance finley could have put a hand down to hold himself up, it obviously didn't happen, but we have seen guys do that before

i just don't know, i think the rule is just really flawed

[run pMc]

Actually, I'm ok with it being called a penalty whether you think it was or not...I hate Triplette and I think he hates football, its fans, and especially the Packers. What an ugly game - 22 penalties total.
It's a shame Finley got hurt -- with all the injuries - esp. at linebacker - they've had to patch together ST squads. I'd give Slocum a little bit of leeway there. Rodgers had a rough 2nd half until the Browns crapped the bed and went for it on 4th and 15...after that the game was mostly over except for some garbage scores (for both teams).
I am impressed by the team's depth -- some of these guys stepped up today. They beat a team they were supposed to, and it really wasn't that close. Good for them.
Now they gotta get healthy and start beating the rest of the division.

[pittstang5]

I might be off base here, but did anyone stop to think that at the speed it happened, it might have looked like the defender nailed Finley with his helmet, add to the fact that Finley went down with a thud - which to me, would indicate a head shot. Refs don't have replay for judgemental calls.

So, I just rewatched it on my DVR. In real time, and even my wife agrees, it looked like a helmet to helmet. In slow motion replay - you can see the Brown defender hit with his shoulder.

[channtheman]

That's what I thought watching the game pittstang. And the announcers just went on and on and on about it. They didn't go on and on over the numerous bad calls against the Packers though.

[digitaldean]

Special teams, patched together or not, were atrocious. The miss by Crosby, I put on ARod. That sack he took could have been avoided. Masthay's punts were inconsistent. His kick offs weren't that deep. Kick coverage and onside kick teams were horrific. We lucked out with a dumb Cleveland penalty.
Thankful we had Weeden as opposing QB. For most part he is slow in timing plus they had at least 4 drops.
House played well, Lattimore as well.

[red]

Special teams, patched together or not, were atrocious. The miss by Crosby, I put on ARod. That sack he took could have been avoided. Masthay's punts were inconsistent. His kick offs weren't that deep. Kick coverage and onside kick teams were horrific. We lucked out with a dumb Cleveland penalty.
Thankful we had Weeden as opposing QB. For most part he is slow in timing plus they had at least 4 drops.
House played well, Lattimore as well.

the kickoffs might have been due to the wind. i know early on when they were heading towards the south endzone (from left to right on the screen) he was sending them out of the endzone. it didn't look too windy, i mean the rain was coming straight down. but the wind does some weird things when it gets in that bowl and i have no clue what kind of mess the new south endzone causes when its windy

and i think 4 drops is being easy on his receiving core. it might have been double that, with twice as many just flat out horrible throws. makes you feel good about having a-rod who's a year younger then the 2nd year suck fest that is weedon

[pbmax]

I might be off base here, but did anyone stop to think that at the speed it happened, it might have looked like the defender nailed Finley with his helmet, add to the fact that Finley went down with a thud - which to me, would indicate a head shot. Refs don't have replay for judgemental calls.

So, I just rewatched it on my DVR. In real time, and even my wife agrees, it looked like a helmet to helmet. In slow motion replay - you can see the Brown defender hit with his shoulder.

Yes, I agree with you. I am sure that was what they saw, just as Triplette saw Weeden's head turn after hawk swiped at his helmet.

But there are two distinct problems then:

1) He was not defenseless and therefore helmet to helmet is not illegal.

2) If they are calling an unnecessary blow to the head as unnecessary roughness (something I think they should do) then the crew are not enforcing the rules as written.

There is wiggle room as the refs have been instructed to err on the side of caution. But we are also debating what SHOULD be called here. So benefit of the doubt or no, I think its a great example of something the League doesn't have a handle on yet.

[Pugger]

Wasn't worth it, but its a good call to challenge.

I disagree. I remember saying "keep that hankie in your pocket Mike!" I'm glad we didn't need that TO.

[Pugger]

Problem with the challenge is that there could be much more important calls to challenge later.

+1

[Pugger]

Tough does not mean stupid, Tramon

Could Tramon not see the WR dropped that pass?

[Pugger]

Lacey...can't say enough about what he's brought to the team.

That last play, the one Jordy made a catch on...looked like 4 WRs. Who the heck were they all?

Lacy :worship:

[pbmax]

Could Tramon not see the WR dropped that pass?

It was a pretty bang-bang play. Normally a player flipping his opponent over would be turned away from him, pulling him over or under. But as this play unfolded, TWill was facing the ball and receiver. But the almost catch and the ball hitting the ground happened pretty fast, so while he COULD have seen it, its not clear he did.

I just think you can't risk that takedown with the new emphasis this year.

[Pugger]

Announcers are pretty good. Solomon (sp) Wilcots is ok in my book.

Its kinda nice to get different announcers for a change (CBS). Next week we get Al and Collinsworth.

[Pugger]

he didn't know the pass was incomplete and he didn't pick the guy up and slam him (which is being watched for this year). I thought it was a bad call.

Packers should have had a td that last drive but mm blew it.

Me too.

[Pugger]

Just me or is barclay looking like complete shit?

I've never been a fan of Barclay as far as pass pro. He's okay as a run blocker tho.

[red]

It was a pretty bang-bang play. Normally a player flipping his opponent over would be turned away from him, pulling him over or under. But as this play unfolded, TWill was facing the ball and receiver. But the almost catch and the ball hitting the ground happened pretty fast, so while he COULD have seen it, its not clear he did.

I just think you can't risk that takedown with the new emphasis this year.

i don't know. to me, tramon had his head over the front shoulder of the receiver (but behind the player). the WR's hands were in his midsection, or maybe by his back hip. the ball feel almost straight down.

i don't think tramon could have seen the drop.

but he has been playing like an idiot this year, so maybe he did see it and slammed him anyways

[Pugger]

get up you pussy its a contract year!

Don't be an ass. He's lucky he still can move his limbs.

[Pugger]

way to go boykin!

Boink! Boink!

[Pugger]

Browns have a pretty good defense so I'd say they did pretty damn well.

I hear what you're saying though.....you guys are sort of spoiled.....

Yes, we are. I have to say this win is one of more satisfying ones in recent memory. We barely had enough players to suit up for this game with countless rookies who belong on the PS and we won the game. Cleveland isn't Denver but had we had our full compliment of players this game isn't even close.

[Smidgeon]

Okay, I haven't read anything in this thread (watched the game on a delay and don't want to read 20 pages of posts), but I did want to add some comments on the game:

1) That was probably the worst announcing I've heard since I had to sit through a Brian Billick announced game a few years back. But to be fair, Billick knew what the heck he was talking about. This team was so off it wasn't even funny. According to them, Kevin Greene coaches the d-line, Darren Perry coaches the cornerbacks, Darren Horton, the dbacks coach for the Packers, used to play for Dom Capers, and the reason the Brown defender was flagged against Finley was because of a hit to a defenseless receiver instead of leading with the crown of the helmet. That last one they waxed eloquently on to the point of nausea, and they were on the wrong explanation the entire time. Instead of talking about the safety hot topic of concussions as a player is carried off on a stretcher, they were talking about why something should not have been penalized (even when it wasn't penalized for that reason).

2) The officiating was horrible. Luckily it didn't affect the game, but from the challenge that wasn't overturned (the ball should have been respotted), to some phantom holds, to the "facemask" on Hawk during the sack, to the flag against the Brown who hit Finley (led with his shoulder, incidental contact), etc, it was an awful day for those refs. I tried to not be annoyed by their ineptitude, but it was hard.

I think that's all I got.

[Zool]

Terrible, terrible announcing. Makes me glad the Packers are an NFC team. Buck and Aikman might be horrible but at least they aren't stupid.