the future of finley

[red]

i'm warning everyone right now, we might have seen the last of jermichael finley

this was the second very scary looking injury he's suffered this season

after the first one, he arrived at home to find his son balled his eyes out saying he didn't want finley to play anymore. his entire family has been trying to talk him into leaving the game since then

leaving on a stretcher, barely being able to move his arms will not do anything to ease their minds

even if he is healthy after this hit, it would not surprise me if he is done for good

[Rutnstrut]

I agree with you, and although I can see where he could want to quit to appease his family, I hope he doesn't. IMO, it would really be a cop out. Unless of course there is serious a medical reason to quit after this injury.

[pbmax]

The draw of a new contract is going to outvote his son.

[run pMc]

Assuming he's cleared to play again, I don't know why he wouldn't. He likes the money, the attention, and the competition too much. I do worry about him developing a case of alligator arms or the dropsies again when he goes across the middle and hears footsteps, though.
Either way, I hope the injury isn't serious and even if it does end his career he's able to enjoy his kids.

[pbmax]

Assuming he's cleared to play again, I don't know why he wouldn't. He likes the money, the attention, and the competition too much. I do worry about him developing a case of alligator arms or the dropsies again when he goes across the middle and hears footsteps, though.
Either way, I hope the injury isn't serious and even if it does end his career he's able to enjoy his kids.

That is the weird thing about him. Both his knee injury and this last hit he was in a position to protect himself and couldn't manage it. Even the first concussion looked like he mistimed a leap or dive for the ball.

[red]

Assuming he's cleared to play again, I don't know why he wouldn't. He likes the money, the attention, and the competition too much. I do worry about him developing a case of alligator arms or the dropsies again when he goes across the middle and hears footsteps, though.
Either way, I hope the injury isn't serious and even if it does end his career he's able to enjoy his kids.

but he has made a nice chunk of money already. i could live comfortably for the rest of my life with the 15 or 20 million he's already made

[gbgary]

hope not but you could be right red.

[red]

here we go

from rotoworld



Jermichael Finley's agent tweeted that "football doesn't matter right now" on Sunday night.
Finley sustained a very scary head or neck injury during the fourth quarter of Sunday's win over the Browns. Packers players who were near him were visibly shaken afterward, with Andrew Quarless saying he shed a tear. Finley does have feeling in his extremities, but he was immobilized and stretchered off the field. "Thank you 2 every1 4 the well wishes regarding @JermichaelF88. Keep him in your thoughts & be patient. Football doesn't matter right now," read Baratz's tweet. Oct 20 - 10:47 PM
Source: Blake Baratz on Twitter

[channtheman]

Yeah his career is over. I bet he has something similar to Nick Collins.

[call_me_ishmael]

You boys don lost your mind. JMike has 13 (allegedly) kids to support. Dude will play and continue to spread his seed as long as he can. Hopefully for his sake it's not career ending. I doubt it will be. I have a hunch he'll be fine. I hope I'm right.

[Joemailman]

Follow

Ian RapoportVerified account
‏@RapSheet
#Packers TE Jermichael Finley, who was knocked out and suffered a neck injury, is still undergoing tests. I’m told signs are good though
Reply Retweet Favorite More

[channtheman]

Follow

Ian RapoportVerified account
‏@RapSheet
#Packers TE Jermichael Finley, who was knocked out and suffered a neck injury, is still undergoing tests. I’m told signs are good though
Reply Retweet Favorite More

Signs are good that he'll play again?

Signs are good that he's alive?

Signs are good that he'll make it home for dinner? And momma is makin his favorite fried chicken?

[Joemailman]

I would say he means signs are good that he doesn't have a permanent injury, as in Nick Collins.

[Old School]

Like everyone else, I'm praying Finley is Ok. But my heart goes out to his son who didn't want him to play after his concussion. I can only imagine how terrified he must have been seeing his father lying on the field and then stretchered off. Hang in there little guy.

[Joemailman]

That is the weird thing about him. Both his knee injury and this last hit he was in a position to protect himself and couldn't manage it. Even the first concussion looked like he mistimed a leap or dive for the ball.

I guess my question is, did Finley inadvertently duck his head right into the hit to protect his rib area? If so, hard to blame the tackler.

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/width620/img/browns_impact/photo/13619021-mmmain.jpg

[run pMc]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
#Packers TE Jermichael Finley spent the night at a hospital after suffering a neck injury. Source: "Precautionary. He's going to be fine"


I read this as: probably not a Nick Collins or Sean Richardson situation, but probably out for a few weeks.

[pbmax]

I guess my question is, did Finley inadvertently duck his head right into the hit to protect his rib area? If so, hard to blame the tackler.

[act/photo/13619021-mmmain.jpg[/IMG]

Can the tackler see what he is hitting? If not, don't care what the runner does.

[Fritz]

I can never figure out what the difference is between "caution" and "precaution."

Couldn't you say they kept him in the hospital as a cautionary measure?

As for Finley, I keep looking at that hit and thinking his career is done, ala Nick Collins. I hope I am wrong.

But even if he does come back, I keep thinking back to how Robert "Turd" Ferguson was never the same after taking a big hit over the middle. He developed a reticence and some alligator arms, too.

[red]

Can the tackler see what he is hitting? If not, don't care what the runner does.

this is my problem with the flag. look at that picture and straiten out finleys back. if you do that, then the defender hits him right in the waist, perfect hit. but in this case finley lowers his head to protect his mid section, something i notice a lot from him and lacy, and something i cringe at every time since both those guys were hurt the first time

that picture just makes me believe even more that finley was more at fault then the defender and shouldn't have been flagged

an offensive player can also get flagged for dropping his head and using it as a ram, correct? or am i wrong there?

not saying finley was trying to use his head as a ram there, i think he was just trying to protect himself by making the worst possible move he could have made

[ThunderDan]

this is my problem with the flag. look at that picture and straiten out finleys back. if you do that, then the defender hits him right in the waist, perfect hit. but in this case finley lowers his head to protect his mid section, something i notice a lot from him and lacy, and something i cringe at every time since both those guys were hurt the first time

that picture just makes me believe even more that finley was more at fault then the defender and shouldn't have been flagged

an offensive player can also get flagged for dropping his head and using it as a ram, correct? or am i wrong there?

not saying finley was trying to use his head as a ram there, i think he was just trying to protect himself by making the worst possible move he could have made

Except Finley is being tackled from behind. He is going down with a man draped all over him. I agree that Finley tucked his head but there is no way Finley could have straightened his back with 43 on him making a perfect form tackle from behind with the helmet up and off to the side of the offensive player.

[pbmax]

an offensive player can also get flagged for dropping his head and using it as a ram, correct? or am i wrong there?

Yes, but it needs to be head on. Would not be called in this case.

[denverYooper]

this is my problem with the flag. look at that picture and straiten out finleys back. if you do that, then the defender hits him right in the waist, perfect hit. but in this case finley lowers his head to protect his mid section, something i notice a lot from him and lacy, and something i cringe at every time since both those guys were hurt the first time

that picture just makes me believe even more that finley was more at fault then the defender and shouldn't have been flagged

an offensive player can also get flagged for dropping his head and using it as a ram, correct? or am i wrong there?

not saying finley was trying to use his head as a ram there, i think he was just trying to protect himself by making the worst possible move he could have made

I think it may be more about decreasing their attack surface like Ender Wiggin going feet first into battle, except obviously such orientation an option in an arena where g0 is 9.81 m/s/s. Getting low to the ground, like you're supposed to. A lot of guys do it by dipping their head. That's become a big no-no in the last couple of years, though, with good reason.

[red]

Except Finley is being tackled from behind. He is going down with a man draped all over him. I agree that Finley tucked his head but there is no way Finley could have straightened his back with 43 on him making a perfect form tackle from behind with the helmet up and off to the side of the offensive player.

i don't think that dend in his back is a natural position for a guy whos being tackled from behind. IMo finley dropped his head and entire upper body to protect himself and that is what caused the helmet to helmet, or helmet to shoulder pad in this case

and i still don't see what that defender can do to avoid it. he starts making his move for a hit, either before or right when fin decides to cover up. i'm guessing before, and fin was reacting to it. if the defender tries to avoid the hit either lower or out in front of finley, then finley could maybe put a hand down and keep going, and maybe still stick his head in the defender.

if the defender goes more to his right, right it finleys body. then he's spearing him head on and gets a 15 yard penalty

if the defender trys to avoid the hit by going further to his right, he risks spearing his own player and maybe knocking him off the tackle send finley free

the one option i can see to avoid the hit was to go high, but you aren't allowed to do that anymore.

i see a defender trying to go low, like defenders are suppose to do right now, and a a receivers whos trying to go even lower to meet the hit head on or to protect his mid section

[red]

Yes, but it needs to be head on. Would not be called in this case.

head on, you mean like to rams butting heads?

so offensive play A colliding head first into the side of defender B at a 90 degree angle wouldn't count? like what these two are doing?

is that what you're saying pb?

[ThunderDan]

i don't think that dend in his back is a natural position for a guy whos being tackled from behind. IMo finley dropped his head and entire upper body to protect himself and that is what caused the helmet to helmet, or helmet to shoulder pad in this case

and i still don't see what that defender can do to avoid it. he starts making his move for a hit, either before or right when fin decides to cover up. i'm guessing before, and fin was reacting to it. if the defender tries to avoid the hit either lower or out in front of finley, then finley could maybe put a hand down and keep going, and maybe still stick his head in the defender.

if the defender goes more to his right, right it finleys body. then he's spearing him head on and gets a 15 yard penalty

if the defender trys to avoid the hit by going further to his right, he risks spearing his own player and maybe knocking him off the tackle send finley free

the one option i can see to avoid the hit was to go high, but you aren't allowed to do that anymore.

i see a defender trying to go low, like defenders are suppose to do right now, and a a receivers whos trying to go even lower to meet the hit head on or to protect his mid section

We can agree to disagree then but look at Finley's feet. You don't run with both your tip-toes on the ground at the same time. The Cleveland defender behind Finley has halted Finley's ability to continue forward. In that position Finley is going to the turf period.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Looking at that play again, Finley was getting tackled and lowered his head to protect himself. Gibson did try and lead with his shoulder but their helmets collided. Gibson is a punk for doing the "no arm tackle" where he just launches himself and doesn't try and actually tackle, just hit.

[KYPack]

I think it may be more about decreasing their attack surface like Ender Wiggin going feet first into battle, except obviously such orientation an option in an arena where g0 is 9.81 m/s/s. Getting low to the ground, like you're supposed to. A lot of guys do it by dipping their head. That's become a big no-no in the last couple of years, though, with good reason.

Yoop, this a football forum.

You are gonna have to dumb down your posts if we are supposed to respond to 'em.

I mean shit, Einstein could never figure out gravity, do you think any of us could handle it?

[pbmax]

head on, you mean like to rams butting heads?

so offensive play A colliding head first into the side of defender B at a 90 degree angle wouldn't count? like what these two are doing?

is that what you're saying pb?

Yes, that is why Merriweather wasn't flagged or fined for the second helmet to helmet hit versus Starks. Even if targeting with the head, it must be lined up (I assume nearly) straight on and not at an angle.

[pbmax]

Yoop, this a football forum.

You are gonna have to dumb down your posts if we are supposed to respond to 'em.

I mean shit, Einstein could never figure out gravity, do you think any of us could handle it?

Well, he did start out with a children's book reference, but then it accelerated quickly.

[denverYooper]

Yoop, this a football forum.

You are gonna have to dumb down your posts if we are supposed to respond to 'em.

I mean shit, Einstein could never figure out gravity, do you think any of us could handle it?

The only way Finley seems to know how to make himself smaller is by ducking his head.

[denverYooper]

Well, he did start out with a children's book reference, but then it accelerated quickly.

What's with the constant puns these days?

[Old School]

I've been a Packer fan for over 60 years. Never much an x's & o's guy, but I followed and read all I could find. This injury thing is getting out of hand. Yesterday Finley, last week Cobb. Around the league yesterday it was Sam Bradford, Reggie Wayne, Cutler, Cushing, etc. Nobody can tell me this isn't something that is growing each year lately. How do you go forward when you can almost count on losing a player every week? And not just a week or two, but season ending.

A player getting "his bell rung" used to be laughed off. I think before Roger tries to expand to Europe, he better figure out why players are having their bodies torn apart and minds destroyed. This doesn't bode well for a sport I love.

I just heard Merle Hodge giving it the old "it's football; shit happens" line. This coming from a guy who somehow knew it was time to quit when he got lost on the way home from practice and was lucky to be able to call for help.

[red]

the latest from rotoworld



Jermichael Finley - TE - Packers

According to USA Today, the Packers probably won't know Jermichael Finley's playing status for "weeks."
Finley remains in a Green Bay hospital after sustaining a scary neck injury during Sunday's win over the Browns. The good news is that he has regained almost all movement, tests have come back negative so far and he's not expected to need surgery. Those positive developments mean we can think about football again, but owners shouldn't count on having the talented pass-catching tight end anytime soon. You can't just rub some dirt on a neck injury.
Source: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Oct 21 - 11:57 AM

[run pMc]

Chris Mortensen reports he's in the ICU.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9857537/jermichael-finley-green-bay-packers-icu-injury

If that's true, that is NOT good.

[red]

the fact the he doesn't have full movement yet is a little scary too

[channtheman]

Chris Mortensen reports he's in the ICU.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9857537/jermichael-finley-green-bay-packers-icu-injury

If that's true, that is NOT good.


To be honest, that's pretty much the only place an injury like this should go. It's not as bad as might you think. They just want to be able to monitor him more frequently and do neuro checks every hour. That kind of thing. Basically, just because he's in ICU doesn't mean he's paralyzed forever.

[run pMc]

...and there's this:
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/10/21/4862278/finley-could-need-weeks-for-recovery

so the news isn't real clear yet, but I expect McCarthy or his agent will have more to say in the next day or two. Either way, I think we won't be seeing Finley play for a while. Depending on what the doctors say, he might go on IR.

If we play the "next man up" game, that puts Quarless as the #1 TE, with Bostick and Stoneburner as backups. Yikes. Taylor will probably try to make it back for the CHI game, which helps ST's and not much else.

This has officially reached the 2010 level of injury-absurdity IMO.

[pbmax]

Yes, several Doctors and Nurses have said that suspicion of a neck injury and temporarily loss of feeling/movement would normally end up in ICU no matter the prognosis, based on symptoms alone. More monitoring available, more nurses, fewer patients.

[run pMc]

To be honest, that's pretty much the only place an injury like this should go. It's not as bad as might you think. They just want to be able to monitor him more frequently and do neuro checks every hour. That kind of thing. Basically, just because he's in ICU doesn't mean he's paralyzed forever.

True...as I think about it, that makes sense. If he has movement and sensation, and won't need surgery, that's a positive sign. "In the ICU" is a scary phrase, but I'll step away from the ledge. :)

[Freak Out]

Looking at that play again, Finley was getting tackled and lowered his head to protect himself. Gibson did try and lead with his shoulder but their helmets collided. Gibson is a punk for doing the "no arm tackle" where he just launches himself and doesn't try and actually tackle, just hit.

Yep. Fin was going down....no reason to try and take a guy out. If you are worried about him gaining an extra yard then tackle him.

[Freak Out]

DP. Big Fin isn't coming back anytime soon. This season maybe....but not right away.

[pbmax]

So, what is he trying to do, why is he not looking where he is going and what, exactly, is he aiming at? I don't think red was right, he wasn't aiming for midsection. If the picture is after the safety knows Finley is going down, he is trying to drill a player into the ground, hopefully a moment before it will be called illegal. Or, if he put his head down too soon, he is trying to trip him at the knees.

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/300x-72.jpg

The kid had a nice quote at JSO, being a decent human being, concerned for Finley's welfare, pledging to contact him, etc. But the reasoning behind the hit was the true reveal. He said he is not the biggest guy, so he has to be extra aggressive. Looking at that picture, what do you think his idea of aggressiveness is and who did he get it from?

1. He thinks aggressive is, even if an opponent is going down, hit them anyway.

2. Leading with your head/shoulder with no wrap up is good technique (remember Chris Borland said this was the preferred technique to strip the ball from the ball carrier if you were the second guy on the tackle).

3. Did his mother teach him this? Father? Maybe Dad was a football player or encouraged this. But I bet dollars to donuts it was his coaches.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 1h
Movement in his extremities, now this: RT @MikeGarafolo: #Packers TE Jermichael Finley did some walking around this morning. Great to hear.

[red]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 1h
Movement in his extremities, now this: RT @MikeGarafolo: #Packers TE Jermichael Finley did some walking around this morning. Great to hear.

moving and joking around and should go home today. but then big thing that gets me is the also say in the same sentence that he has "some feeling in most of his extremities"

that doesn't sound good

so if the tests results were negative and he's being sent home, does this just mean he had a really really bad stinger? i'm assuming he doesn't have a broken neck. can it still be something serious if they are sending him home already with no surgery?

[Fritz]

moving and joking around and should go home today. but then big thing that gets me is the also say in the same sentence that he has "some feeling in most of his extremities"

that doesn't sound good

so if the tests results were negative and he's being sent home, does this just mean he had a really really bad stinger? i'm assuming he doesn't have a broken neck. can it still be something serious if they are sending him home already with no surgery?

If he were to permanently lose feeling in one of his, ahem, extremities, maybe he wouldn't be fathering so many children.

But more seriously, this is all good news. Who knows what the future holds, if he'll ever play, if he'd play this season, if he'd be a different, more hesitant player. Who knows.

[red]

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/300x-72.jpg

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/width620/img/browns_impact/photo/13619021-mmmain.jpg

in those two pictures PB, it looks to me like finley is higher in the first pic, while the brown is lower. in the second pic of the collision, they are both at the same height. and it makes since because finley is going down. at the point of collision you see finley's back bent where it was straight in the first one

it still looks to me like finley is moving into the hit

i don't disagree it was wrong for the brown to just be throwing himself at finley, but i do think there is plenty of blame to go around. the brown launched head first at finley (head or midsection) and finley lowered his head to protect himself

combine the two and you get the ugly hit

[Fritz]

All I know is that in my very limited football-playing experience, I'd have wrapped him up around the shoulders, not lowered my shoulder to give him a shot.

[red]

If he were to permanently lose feeling in one of his, ahem, extremities, maybe he wouldn't be fathering so many children.

But more seriously, this is all good news. Who knows what the future holds, if he'll ever play, if he'd play this season, if he'd be a different, more hesitant player. Who knows.

LOL, good point

[Freak Out]

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotImages/28/0d36a0b9-f2cd-4271-bf3a-575c581003e2_lg.jpeg

[red]

All I know is that in my very limited football-playing experience, I'd have wrapped him up around the shoulders, not lowered my shoulder to give him a shot.

well this just brings up a whole different debate

players launching their bodies at other players. as of now its still legal i think, as long as it isn't aimed at the head.

maybe outlawing this sort of thing would help more then anything else?

i was reading earlier about a play in the colts bronco game last night. broncos return man got free and was on his way to the endzone. the colts kicker or punter absolutely blew him up on the sideline. the kicker did launch a bit and the helmets did collide, just above the kickers facemask hitting the side of the return man. PFT explained that it was not a H2H because it wasn't the crown of his head that came in contact with the other guys helmet

so it seems its still legal to launch yourself and hit another guy in the helmet with your, just as long as its not the very tippy top.

the rule just sucks

[red]

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotImages/28/0d36a0b9-f2cd-4271-bf3a-575c581003e2_lg.jpeg

i think by todays rule that might be an illegal hands to the head, or maybe a facemask. and we can't see where rays right hand is. it could be the thing thats ripping the guys head around

at least yesterday they called a 15 yard penalty on hawk for touching weedens helmet

[pbmax]

I just think that the technology of helmets (ironically, right when I was playing though still before High School) got so good (late 70s early 80s) you suddenly had no need to commonly worry about where to stick your head on a tackle. Gone was the suspended web that made it seem like a construction hard hat and in were the all foam-pad models.

Then Kenny Easley, Steve Atwater and Chuck Cecil show up and make a name for themselves as human missiles. Highlights and riches follow, well, riches for the first two anyway. They no longer needed to fear lacerations or skull fractures that previous generations had to think about.

Its led to incredibly sloppy technique. The problem is, as I have written before, that these hits might not be the most damaging ones. It might be the sub-concussive ones on the LOS where head to head contact occurs almost every play that are most worrisome. But Roger can't even get teams to coach better form tackling.

[red]

I just think that the technology of helmets (ironically, right when I was playing though still before High School) got so good (late 70s early 80s) you suddenly had no need to commonly worry about where to stick your head on a tackle. Gone was the suspended web that made it seem like a construction hard hat and in were the all foam-pad models.

Then Kenny Easley, Steve Atwater and Chuck Cecil show up and make a name for themselves as human missiles. Highlights and riches follow, well, riches for the first two anyway. They no longer needed to fear lacerations or skull fractures that previous generations had to think about.

Its led to incredibly sloppy technique. The problem is, as I have written before, that these hits might not be the most damaging ones. It might be the sub-concussive ones on the LOS where head to head contact occurs almost every play that are most worrisome. But Roger can't even get teams to coach better form tackling.

i wonder if those old helmets would be better, or a modern version of it. something where the helmet is suspended off of your head.

and like you said, maybe it would reduce head hunting due to the fact that guys would have to worry about hurting their pretty little faces again

[Joemailman]

MM live PC should be about to start. http://www.packers.com/media-center/live-webcasts.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

I disagree that an ugly hit was made on Finley. Finley was not defenseless, he was plowing into the defensive backs. The second defensive back hit Finley without leading with his helmet. Finley is falling forward to get extra yardage, it's tackle football.

[Joemailman]

MM started by saying it's a significant injury. When he uses the word significant with injury, that's usually not good news as far as how long the player will be out.

[Teamcheez1]

On the personal side, Finley's recovery and health are the most important things, even if it means he doesn't play again soon (or maybe ever). If you don't have your health, you don't have anything. The guy is giving his all and it's not his fault that he has incurred serious injuries.

On the business side, if he does recover well enough to play again this season, I have the feeling TT is already working on his decision regarding Finley's contract. I expect that we would only re-sign him at a greatly reduced rate, or send him on his way. I think we are going to really see this team become gun shy when it comes to injuries.

[red]

boy that interview by MM sure didn't make it sound good

sounds like he'll be alright life wise

but it sounded like his immediate and future football career may be in doubt

[ThunderDan]

I disagree that an ugly hit was made on Finley. Finley was not defenseless, he was plowing into the defensive backs. The second defensive back hit Finley without leading with his helmet. Finley is falling forward to get extra yardage, it's tackle football.

Except Finley is going parallel to the line of scrimmage and not advancing up the field. And from pb's picture in post #42 the CLE player has lowered his helmet and is leading with his helmet even though he makes contact with his shoulder pad.

Other than that you got everything right!

[pbmax]

I disagree that an ugly hit was made on Finley. Finley was not defenseless, he was plowing into the defensive backs. The second defensive back hit Finley without leading with his helmet. Finley is falling forward to get extra yardage, it's tackle football.

I agree with you he wasn't defenseless. About the rest ...

[Fritz]

I disagree that an ugly hit was made on Finley. Finley was not defenseless, he was plowing into the defensive backs. The second defensive back hit Finley without leading with his helmet. Finley is falling forward to get extra yardage, it's tackle football.

But it's not tackle football; that's the problem. It's guys launching themselves at other guys. Where's the tackling? Look at Nitschke, wrapping that guy up and tackling him.

But I do think the refs fudged up the Hawk facemask. Did his fingers brush across Weedon's facemask for a second?

[channtheman]

Just want to point out on the Hawk play, it appears Hawk leaves his feet to "launch" himself into the QB. If Hawk just breaks down, keeps his head up, and form tackles Weeden, he doesn't fly out of control and miss the sack in the first place. So yeah, probably a lame call, but could have been avoided.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Except Finley is going parallel to the line of scrimmage and not advancing up the field.
No, Finley gets a extra half yard or yard if the 2nd DB doesn't come in with his shoulder.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But it's not tackle football; that's the problem. It's guys launching themselves at other guys. Where's the tackling? Look at Nitschke, wrapping that guy up and tackling him.

That was no vicious launch, it was a routine play.

I know sometimes you get all emotional during your period, but there was no high drama by the defenders here.

[pbmax]

No, Finley gets a extra half yard or yard if the 2nd DB doesn't come in with his shoulder.

Finley was headed across the width of the field, the safety is running through the length of the field. If the safety never hits him, he falls toward the sideline.

[red]

Except Finley is going parallel to the line of scrimmage and not advancing up the field. And from pb's picture in post #42 the CLE player has lowered his helmet and is leading with his helmet even though he makes contact with his shoulder pad.

Other than that you got everything right!

no he wasn't he was moving down the field at a small angle, the video also clearly shows finley dropping his head for contact

i agree with blue dog, finley get another half yard or more if not for the hit. i think fonley's momentum and directio would have gotten him to the 45

i like M3's feeling on it best. 2 football players playing football


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXlP6Vvis38

[Joemailman]

Looking at that video, it appears at the 15 second mark that it's actually the crown of Finley's helmet that strikes the side of the defender's helmet. I don't know much about physics, but this could just have easily have led to a head injury to the defender.

[Patler]

Finley was breaking tackles and bouncing off DBs to get extra yards all game. I would expect defenders to keep hitting him until the whistle blew.

[red]

i win, patler and joe agree with me

[Joemailman]

Jermichael Finley ✔ @JermichaelF88
I want to thank my family, friends, teammates, fans and Packer Nation for the prayers and support over the past 24 hrs. I'm happy to report that I have been transferred out of the intensive care unit and that I have full feeling in my arms and legs. As importantly, I was able 2 walk to & from the shower today, which was badly needed after yesterday's victory! Thank u again 4 the support, and Go Packers!

Glad to see he hasn't lost his sense of humor.

[King Friday]

Nothing wrong with the hit IMO. Guys hit players who are already wrapped up all the time, hoping to force a fumble. The injury resulted from Finley dropping his head into the hitting zone, plain and simple.

I doubt this is the last we've seen from Finley. This could potentially change the way he plays the game, where he becomes less of a physical player and goes down more easily...but I see very little chance of him hanging it up and leaving $30M on the table.

[pbmax]

No problem with him tackling Finley. How about a hit that doesn't involve leading with his head? And looking at what he is hitting?

The technique is just asking for an injury.

[pbmax]

TV just said (unattributed) that Finley has a bruised spinal cord.

[King Friday]

No problem with him tackling Finley. How about a hit that doesn't involve leading with his head? And looking at what he is hitting?

For starters, the defender did NOT lead with his helmet. Take a look at the first still photo posted of the tackle. Finley is the one who is LEADING with his head into the impact, not the defender. In fact, the defender's SHOULDER is what contacted Finley.

Secondly, there is no rule stating you have to look at what you are hitting. Perhaps it is dumb and certainly not fundamentally correct...but it is hardly against the rules.

[red]

TV just said (unattributed) that Finley has a bruised spinal cord.

is that a good thing or a bad thing? sounds not so bad.

bruises heal, right?

[King Friday]

It is a good thing for Finley long term.

Short term, it likely means he's done for 2013. Those are injuries that typically take months to fully recover from.

This could also make his resigning a lot more likely for Green Bay. Other teams aren't likely to throw top dollar at a guy coming off a spinal injury.

[red]

yeah but we weren't willing to risk letting nick collins back on the field after his spinal injury

[Guiness]

Nothing wrong with the hit IMO. Guys hit players who are already wrapped up all the time, hoping to force a fumble. The injury resulted from Finley dropping his head into the hitting zone, plain and simple.

I doubt this is the last we've seen from Finley. This could potentially change the way he plays the game, where he becomes less of a physical player and goes down more easily...but I see very little chance of him hanging it up and leaving $30M on the table.

I'm not so sure. After his concussion earlier when his kid got upset, it sounded like he was actually paying attention to him and thinking about it. This is a lot worse, and might put a scare in him. If he's been careful he should be set financially. I've got a bad feeling about this.

[pbmax]

For starters, the defender did NOT lead with his helmet. Take a look at the first still photo posted of the tackle. Finley is the one who is LEADING with his head into the impact, not the defender. In fact, the defender's SHOULDER is what contacted Finley.

Secondly, there is no rule stating you have to look at what you are hitting. Perhaps it is dumb and certainly not fundamentally correct...but it is hardly against the rules.

He has NO idea what part of him will hit Finley first. You cannot claim he led with his shoulder when he has no idea where Finley will be when he gets there. That's like spinning on ice, finally stopping with your head pointed north and claiming you were a compass all along. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, but you weren't in control of the outcome in either case. he is blindly throwing himself into Finley's path. Its not a tackle its a leap of faith.

And I am not arguing for another flag or a different flag. This guy simply thinks diving at a player (and when you do this, the foremost point of your body is your head, you are leading with it whether your poor aiming means you hit first with it or not) in an attempt to achieve a stop (because we can't call it a tackle) is aggressive and salutary. Its horesbleep and he is just praying that God, angular momentum and padding save him from being immobile in the near future.

The thing to ask yourself is this: why aren't his hands extended? If it was a good faith effort to impede Finley's progress, then extending you arms would extend your reach and help guarantee that the O player can't get by you. But on these kinds of hits, the defender never has their arms out. Why? Two reasons, grabbing someone is not as dramatic as slamming into them with something less likely to move (helmet, shoulder). And secondly, they trust the helmet to protect them (foolishly as we have learned recently) but they know not to trust whatever arm pads they are wearing.

As for Finley leading with his helmet, I would like to know the kinetics you suggest for a player, whose legs are tackled and who needs to keep both hands on the ball, to go to the ground without his head going there first.

[Bossman641]

is that a good thing or a bad thing? sounds not so bad.

bruises heal, right?

I'm sure every case is different but a Baltimore LB had a bruised spinal cord and just returned this past Sunday after being out 10 months. I'm sure Finley is done for the year, just hoping for the best long term now.

[3irty1]

A bruised spinal cord is plenty serious.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/nervous_system_disorders/acute_spinal_cord_injury_85,P00770/

I don't know what the spectrum is for a best case scenario. We can be sure its not a tear but even a bruise can mean physical therapy to recover.

[ThunderDan]

For starters, the defender did NOT lead with his helmet. Take a look at the first still photo posted of the tackle. Finley is the one who is LEADING with his head into the impact, not the defender. In fact, the defender's SHOULDER is what contacted Finley.

Secondly, there is no rule stating you have to look at what you are hitting. Perhaps it is dumb and certainly not fundamentally correct...but it is hardly against the rules.

Then why is all I see of the Cleveland player an orange circle with a white stripe on it?

The hit is with the shoulder, the player led with his head. If the CLE player tackling Finley from behind isn't slowing his momentum that would have been a classic helmet to helmet hit.

[red]

so, if we're talking about 10 months like that ravens player, that puts him into next season

would we resign a guy this offseason that is coming off of this injury and not knowing what his future holds?

[pbmax]

is that a good thing or a bad thing? sounds not so bad.

bruises heal, right?

The bruise is a good thing now that he has regained feeling and movement (could have been much worse), but any bruise indicates swelling and potential damage to the spinal cord nerves permanently. That guy who injured his spinal cord in Buffalo but made a miraculous comeback was treated with some pretty far out techniques, including a refrigerated IV or perhaps local injection to try to immediately reduce swelling. The less time there is pressure on the nerves, the less damage. I should say this player made a comeback to walking, not playing, it was a more serious injury.

Finley still has some damage to the nerves and needs to recover full function from that.

They also need to examine his spinal column to see if he has a narrowing that would leave him at a higher than normal risk to re-injure the area. That would be the end of his career.

[hoosier]

Definitely done for the season. If he gets medical clearance to come back and decides to try it, he probably re-signs with Packers for a modest short-term deal.

[Patler]

They also need to examine his spinal column to see if he has a narrowing that would leave him at a higher than normal risk to re-injure the area. That would be the end of his career.

That is an important issue still remaining for determining his future career. What caused the bruise? Was it due to freakish forces not likely to recur, or due spinal stenosis such that the same or worse could likely happen again? Sterling Sharp had instability in his spinal column, which ended his career. I wonder if it would even today, or if more modern fusion procedures could have allowed him to play again.

JSO has a chart summarizing Packers' neck injuries over the years:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/228706681.html

[red]

didn't sharpe have some vertebrae fused, or am i thinking of someone else?

so according to that list, no player that has suffered a serious neck injury has returned to the team, they were either all released, or retired after the season

not a very good list to bring up patler

i do like how chmura never played after his injury but the article made sure everyone knew he was released for diddling little girls after getting them drunk

[3irty1]

The bruise is a good thing now that he has regained feeling and movement (could have been much worse), but any bruise indicates swelling and potential damage to the spinal cord nerves permanently. That guy who injured his spinal cord in Buffalo but made a miraculous comeback was treated with some pretty far out techniques, including a refrigerated IV or perhaps local injection to try to immediately reduce swelling. The less time there is pressure on the nerves, the less damage. I should say this player made a comeback to walking, not playing, it was a more serious injury.

Finley still has some damage to the nerves and needs to recover full function from that.

They also need to examine his spinal column to see if he has a narrowing that would leave him at a higher than normal risk to re-injure the area. That would be the end of his career.

The narrowing won't stop him from playing as they already said there was no spinal damage and he won't have to get anything fused.

[run pMc]

I don't think it was good tackling form.
I don't think it was a dirty play either.

It looks to me like Finley was falling down and dropped his head, Gipson hit Finley with his shoulder, and Finley's neck basically played shock absorber.

Finley was falling down so it's debatable if the hit was necessary...but I'm pretty sure S's are coached to hit anything that crosses the middle...intimidate, make them pay, etc. If he doesn't hit Finley, the coach, the fans, etc., think he's soft and will play someone else.

Personally, I think Elam's hit on Cobb was more egregious. Meriweather's hits on Lacy and Starks even moreso.

[Bossman641]

didn't sharpe have some vertebrae fused, or am i thinking of someone else?

so according to that list, no player that has suffered a serious neck injury has returned to the team, they were either all released, or retired after the season

not a very good list to bring up patler

i do like how chmura never played after his injury but the article made sure everyone knew he was released for diddling little girls after getting them drunk

I believe Sterling had 2 vertebrae fused together.

The list certainly doesn't make you feel very good about Finley's chances.

[3irty1]

No issue with the hit, or Finley's head lowering. Sometimes people just get hurt playing football and we don't need a new rule to prevent that.

[Carolina_Packer]

Assuming Finley goes on IR, do the Packers entertain bringing any of these guys in? http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013TE.php (I see Matthew Mulligan on the list). Anyone else interest you?

[Fritz]

Assuming Finley goes on IR, do the Packers entertain bringing any of these guys in? http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013TE.php (I see Matthew Mulligan on the list). Anyone else interest you?

Here's a quote that helps explain why the Packers don't bring in much outside help:

"We have a pretty good handle on what they [Packers who have been with the team] can do,"[Tom] Clements said. "They've been here since the spring, most of them have been here since the spring and throughout training camp so it's just a matter of taking what we know about them and putting them in a position to be successful. We know what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are and we're not going to try to get them to do things they're not comfortable or capable of doing."

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/jermichael-finleys-neck-injury-could-be-trouble-b99125495z1-228716121.html#ixzz2iTBjLXli
Follow us: @NewsHub on Twitter

[pbmax]

The narrowing won't stop him from playing as they already said there was no spinal damage and he won't have to get anything fused.

Well there HAD to be spinal cord damage or he wouldn't have been temporarily unable to move or process sensation (this is, I think, a fair reading of various incomplete reports but it could easily turn out to be not the case). Now they may expect him to heal fully and lose no function but that isn't the same thing as no damage. I had not read they ruled out vertebra damage, but that would be fortunate.

But as for narrowing, I can't see how a quick recovery rules out further risk. If the injury can be repeated, he would be in line to suffer the same injury. Suffered again, he could be faced with a worse outcome. I don't think you need a structural failure to exacerbate stenosis. But I have been wrong before.


EDIT: Vague recollections of discussing this with Collin's injury give me the impression that a physical injury to the spinal column DOES in fact make the stenosis worse as the inevitable inflammation and then scarring further narrow the available space. So 3irty1 might have a better bead on this than I; however, I don't remember if stenosis by itself without physical aggravation would preclude continuing with his career.

[hoosier]

Well there HAD to be spinal cord damage or he wouldn't have been temporarily unable to move or process sensation (this is, I think, a fair reading of various incomplete reports but it could easily turn out to be not the case). Now they may expect him to heal fully and lose no function but that isn't the same thing as no damage. I had not read they ruled out vertebra damage, but that would be fortunate.

But as for narrowing, I can't see how a quick recovery rules out further risk. If the injury can be repeated, he would be in line to suffer the same injury. Suffered again, he could be faced with a worse outcome. I don't think you need a structural failure to exacerbate stenosis. But I have been wrong before.


EDIT: Vague recollections of discussing this with Collin's injury give me the impression that a physical injury to the spinal column DOES in fact make the stenosis worse as the inevitable inflammation and then scarring further narrow the available space. So 3irty1 might have a better bead on this than I; however, I don't remember if stenosis by itself without physical aggravation would preclude continuing with his career.

I have not seen any reports discussing stenosis in Finley at all, my understanding is that is what is now being investigated. If Finley does have a stenosis condition that existed before the hit (may still be unknown), the bruising could could certainly leave scar tissue and make the condition worse. And if he turns out to have stenosis, he may never get cleared to play again regardless of how quickly and completely he recovers from the bruising. There is no medical consensus about how bad the stenosis has to be before a player is pulled, and the Packers seem to trend conservative when it comes to clearing high risk players. http://inside.akronchildrens.org/2013/02/28/spinal-stenosis-is-narrowing-of-the-spinal-column/

[Bossman641]

I have not seen any reports discussing stenosis in Finley at all, my understanding is that is what is now being investigated. If Finley does have a stenosis condition that existed before the hit (may still be unknown), the bruising could could certainly leave scar tissue and make the condition worse. And if he turns out to have stenosis, he may never get cleared to play again regardless of how quickly and completely he recovers from the bruising. There is no medical consensus about how bad the stenosis has to be before a player is pulled, and the Packers seem to trend conservative when it comes to clearing high risk players. http://inside.akronchildrens.org/2013/02/28/spinal-stenosis-is-narrowing-of-the-spinal-column/

Is stenosis a genetic condition? If so, wouldn't teams want to test players for that before they invest millions in them; both for their sake and the players'? I thought it was solely caused by trauma.

[3irty1]

The event of a ruptured disk in the neck resulting in fusion of vertebra on top of stenosis is extremely rare in the NFL. The packers have 2 of like 5 or 6 players to ever encounter it. If he had a spinal structural problem such as a disk like Collins we would already have known as it would show up on an x-ray. A bruised spinal cord is likely all we've got although that's plenty bad on its own. They keep you in the ICU, drug you for swelling, rehab you for your lingering symptoms. Symptoms are typically more severe the higher up the injury occurs. Hence Finley's dramatic paralysis. He could easily lose strength and/or control in his extremities that will require physical therapy. My initial guess is that he'll be on the PUP next year.

[hoosier]

Is stenosis a genetic condition? If so, wouldn't teams want to test players for that before they invest millions in them; both for their sake and the players'? I thought it was solely caused by trauma.

Some cases are congenital but most often it results from old age, with trauma and scarring a distant second cause. I think the diagnosis is pretty complicated and is driven by the symptoms the patient is experiencing. Stenosis is a rare condition in the young adult population, so MRIing thousands of football players each year would not be a good use of resources. I am not sure how much normal variation there is among individual spinal canals, but it could be that you really cannot begin the diagnostic process unless the patient is experiencing some tell-tale symptoms.

[Patler]

My initial guess is that he'll be on the PUP next year.

If he is still rehabing this injury next summer I doubt that any team will sign him until he receivers medical clearance to play. Maybe someone would risk a split salary contract, with a minimal salary if he is not playing, but the signing bonus would still be an issue. A one year contract doesn't make a lot of sense until he is cleared to practice.

[red]

My initial guess is that he'll be on the PUP next year.

so you're thinking we resign him then put him on the PUP?

i'm guessing that if its something that is gonna keep him out that long that no one is gonna sign him this of season, unless maybe we do for dirt cheap with maybe big money showing up in the second year and beyond if he can continue to play

[Teamcheez1]

I wish Jermichael Finley the best and full recovery, however, if he is out for the rest of the year, I think it's time to move on next year without him.

He may be the best TE we have on the team right now, but I don't think he has ever reached his potential (injury or otherwise). For $8M, I expect to see a Gonzalez, Gates, Gronkowski, Witten, etc. at the position. Six seasons later, I just don't see it happening. Now if we can sign him to an incentive laden, bare bones contract of a couple of million, it may be worth the risk.

I wish him the best, but it may be time to move on without him, even if he is capable of resuming his career

[red]

If he is still rehabing this injury next summer I doubt that any team will sign him until he receivers medical clearance to play. Maybe someone would risk a split salary contract, with a minimal salary if he is not playing, but the signing bonus would still be an issue. A one year contract doesn't make a lot of sense until he is cleared to practice.

maybe something like a 3 year deal with no signing bonus and minimal salary in the first year, the big roster bonuses in years two and three to make up for the lack of a signing bonus?

i don't know really know what the team should do at this point. do you try and resign him now? do you wait until you know he's healthy and then have to compete with everyone else?

gonna be a tough call for TT

[red]

I wish Jermichael Finley the best and full recovery, however, if he is out for the rest of the year, I think it's time to move on next year without him.

He may be the best TE we have on the team right now, but I don't think he has ever reached his potential (injury or otherwise). For $8M, I expect to see a Gonzalez, Gates, Gronkowski, Witten, etc. at the position. Six seasons later, I just don't see it happening. Now if we can sign him to an incentive laden, bare bones contract of a couple of million, it may be worth the risk.

I wish him the best, but it may be time to move on without him, even if he is capable of resuming his career

before the injury me and some others were talking about how it was time to move on, draft a big guy with sure hands in the draft and use that big money elsewhere. finley was just worth the money he was making this year and if he was still looking to make that kind of money then he was not worth it IMO

him being hurt though might just drop the asking price way down

[Guiness]

What happened to Bryce Paup? I thought he had an injury that hasn't his (premature) departure from GB.

[red]

bryce had a pretty long career after he left green bay

with the bills wasn't it? he might have even been defensive player of the year or something like that

[Brandon494]

Yup, its time to move on from Finley. The guy has talent but too many mental errors and hes injury prone. Let him walk,use that money on a damn safety, and then draft a TE on day two.

Austin Seferian-Jenkins on Washington is a guy that I like, former Pac-12 basketball player. Watching his highlights he almost looks like Finley but I don't know if thats just because he is wearing the number 88. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPZ5ZDWEADo

[red]

Yup, its time to move on from Finley. The guy has talent but too many mental errors and hes injury prone. Let him walk,use that money on a damn safety, and then draft a TE on day two.

Austin Seferian-Jenkins on Washington is a guy that I like, former Pac-12 basketball player. Watching his highlights he almost looks like Finley but I don't know if thats just because he is wearing the number 88. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPZ5ZDWEADo

did you get that idea from walterfootball? if not, they have us taking him in their latest mock draft with the 23rd pick

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie_1.php

i don't even know if i want a "playmaker" at TE. i'd just be happy with a guy that can catch and hang on the the ball for 5 yards on 3rd and 4

[KYPack]

Yup, its time to move on from Finley. The guy has talent but too many mental errors and hes injury prone. Let him walk,use that money on a damn safety, and then draft a TE on day two.

Austin Seferian-Jenkins on Washington is a guy that I like, former Pac-12 basketball player. Watching his highlights he almost looks like Finley but I don't know if thats just because he is wearing the number 88. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPZ5ZDWEADo

Brandon, this Bud's for you.

Yer right & it's too bad.

This game really made think that it was gonna be a real tough call on JMF's contract.

He has been improving in all phases, even his blocking is radically improved.

That was a snaky little route he ran for the TD & ran over guys to boot.

Now, it will be a no-brainer & the filthy, nasty, cold-blooded side of the business will be revealed to all.

It would seem that Fin is probably gone & I really do feel it's too bad.

Good-bye Yotto and take care of yourself.

[denverYooper]

Good-bye Yotto and take care of yourself.

He might want to think about hiring a financial planner and getting his money invested wisely.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Yup, its time to move on from Finley. The guy has talent but too many mental errors and hes injury prone. Let him walk,use that money on a damn safety, and then draft a TE on day two.

Austin Seferian-Jenkins on Washington is a guy that I like, former Pac-12 basketball player. Watching his highlights he almost looks like Finley but I don't know if thats just because he is wearing the number 88. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPZ5ZDWEADo

He seems thicker than Finley. I'd put him more like Keith Jackson.

[red]

the problem with ASJ is he might end up being a top 20 pick, which hopefully means we're out of the running

the guy that some say is the second best TE is a guy from north carolins who his fast, athletic, but can't block and has a case of the dropsies

i'd be fine with a third or 4th rounder who can block on hold on to pass every now and then, and maybe knows how to run a route or two

jason whitten was a third rounder
dronk was a mid second
graham was a late third
kyle rudolh was a second
owen daniels was a 4th

there are some damn good TE's to be found in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. they might not be the sexiest TE's in the draft at the time, but they can do what we need them to do

maybe guys like arthur lynch from georgia, or C.J. Fiedorowicz from iowa.

[Brandon494]

did you get that idea from walterfootball? if not, they have us taking him in their latest mock draft with the 23rd pick

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie_1.php

i don't even know if i want a "playmaker" at TE. i'd just be happy with a guy that can catch and hang on the the ball for 5 yards on 3rd and 4

Haha wow no I didn't see that. Yea I agree with you which is why I wouldn't want to use our 1st rounder on a TE.

[Patler]

He might want to think about hiring a financial planner and getting his money invested wisely.

Hopefully he didn't blow all of the $14+ million he got over the last two years. His rookie contract probably wasn't so much, relatively speaking.

IF his career is done, what do you suppose the chances are that he will be one of the many who are broke 5 years after they last play?

[channtheman]

Hopefully he didn't blow all of the $14+ million he got over the last two years. His rookie contract probably wasn't so much, relatively speaking.

IF his career is done, what do you suppose the chances are that he will be one of the many who are broke 5 years after they last play?

If the reports are true that he has 13 children by God knows how many women, he's probably already broke right now, unfortunately.

[pbmax]

Heard on ESPN radio, repeating something from Werder that sounded pretty optimistic. Essentially that they expect him out of the hospital within a day and that so far there are no complications. There are obviously a lot more steps and his general physical condition is unknown, but the Werder report was the most positive one I have heard.

[pbmax]

If the reports are true that he has 13 children by God knows how many women, he's probably already broke right now, unfortunately.

I know Snake buys into this, and where there is smoke there may well be fire, but Internet paternity make me skeptical.

[pbmax]

Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 6h
Packers TE Jermichael Finley should be released from hospital in next 24 hrs. Doctors believe he can play again but when remains unknown

Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 6h
Even though Jermichael Finley should be able to play NFL again, it would not be surprising if Packers consider IR sometime this week

[pbmax]

http://twitpic.com/didg5c

Finley walking in hospital. Somehow, I don't think this story will be hard to follow.

[Joemailman]

What a bunch of downers you guys are. Do you bury your relatives because they get the flu? Big Fin will lead Pack to a Super Bowl.

[pbmax]

What a bunch of downers you guys are. Do you bury your relatives because they get the flu? Big Fin will lead Pack to a Super Bowl.

I always insist on that string inside the coffin tied to a bell on the ground, you know, just in case.

[red]

What a bunch of downers you guys are. Do you bury your relatives because they get the flu? Big Fin will lead Pack to a Super Bowl.

i always found that burying those closest to you when they show the first signs of the flu is the best way to insure you do not get it

[KYPack]

What a bunch of downers you guys are. Do you bury your relatives because they get the flu? Big Fin will lead Pack to a Super Bowl.

Only up to their necks.

Are you the Joe who bought the forum?

[Joemailman]

Only up to their necks.

Are you the Joe who bought the forum?

Not a chance.

[KYPack]

Jes joshin'.

I know who you are, Joe.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Return of Jermichael Finley unlikely without surgery (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/return-of-jermichael-finley-unlikely-without-surgery-b99126233z1-228880141.html)

grim

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/return-of-jermichael-finley-unlikely-without-surgery-b99126233z1-228880141.html

This article is the most sobering thing I've read so far. Basically it's saying that there are other factors present that would cause a spinal cord bruise, not just the force of the hit.

[3irty1]

double post

[3irty1]

Well looks like surgery isn't off the table after all pb. Any bets on what they'll find to be the reason for the bruise?

That JSO article doesn't seem consistent with Jameel McClain's reality. He suffered the same injury in the same place, required no surgery and is now back on the field.

Hope Finley saved some money because getting all this medical treatment without being signed to an NFL team is going to be costly.

[pbmax]

Well looks like surgery isn't off the table after all pb. Any bets on what they'll find to be the reason for the bruise?

That JSO article doesn't seem consistent with Jameel McClain's reality. He suffered the same injury in the same place, required no surgery and is now back on the field.

Hope Finley saved some money because getting all this medical treatment without being signed to an NFL team is going to be costly.

I am with the surgeon and would want to know why before making any other decisions. I hope they can find out the cause. But we are still going on unconfirmed reports of his condition except for a shower and a stroll down the hall. So there may be more we don't know.

[denverYooper]

Hopefully he didn't blow all of the $14+ million he got over the last two years. His rookie contract probably wasn't so much, relatively speaking.

IF his career is done, what do you suppose the chances are that he will be one of the many who are broke 5 years after they last play?

For his family's sake, I hope he is not, and I hope this causes him to consider his post-football finances. But it would not surprise me if he ends up broke.

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 57m
#Packers S Sean Richardson (neck) said team doctor has cleared him to resume his career. Said 5 out of 5 doctors agreed it's safe to return.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 56m
Richardson is not practicing yet and remains on PUP, but said he is more than ready to return and is just waiting for the go-ahead.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 54m
Richardson had undergone single-level fusion surgery of vertebrae C-5 and C-6. #Packers


Good news for Richardson and the safety position. But this also speaks to the unknown about Finley.

The Doc, whom the Packers consult on spine injuries, will not sign off on a player returning from a fusion of C3-C4 or higher. See here for details: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/return-of-jermichael-finley-unlikely-without-surgery-b99126233z1-228880141.html

Some docs will sign off on that fusion and allow player to play. Much will depend on whether Finley has an exiting condition (or new injury) that must be corrected to insure he doesn't get the same injury again.

[pbmax]

WEDNESDAY PRACTICE

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
#Packers injury report:

FULL: Bush, Hayward, B.Jones, Starks.
OUT: Finley, Matthews.
DNP: J.Jones, Perry, R.Taylor.

[Guiness]

The Doc, whom the Packers consult on spine injuries, will not sign off on a player returning from a fusion of C3-C4 or higher. See here for details: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/return-of-jermichael-finley-unlikely-without-surgery-b99126233z1-228880141.html

Some docs will sign off on that fusion and allow player to play. Much will depend on whether Finley has an exiting condition (or new injury) that must be corrected to insure he doesn't get the same injury again.

Did you see something saying he might need a fusion, or just hypothesizing (read: talking out of your ass! :wink: )?

[pbmax]

Did you see something saying he might need a fusion, or just hypothesizing (read: talking out of your ass! :wink: )?

Nope, know nothing new on Finley. Just theorizing along the lines of the article that a spinal bruise usual results from one of four causes. The damage to a vertebra or disc are two of the four possibilities.

[Patler]

Well, Dr Hsu, whom the paper consulted, expects that some corrective intervention will be required, and he did a 20 year study of NFL spine injuries.


Hsu said there are typically four things that would cause a spinal cord bruise: a herniated disk; a fractured joint; stenosis or a genetic or arthritic narrowing of the spine; and a loose vertebrae due to ligament damage around the spine. (Note: he then suggests all would require corrective surgery.)
...

Hsu said there could be a scenario in which no surgery was needed, but he would be worried something had been missed when determining why the spinal cord was bruised.

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/return-of-jermichael-finley-unlikely-without-surgery-b99126233z1-228880141.html#ixzz2iaqA4Rq5
Follow us: @NewsHub on Twitter

[hoosier]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 57m
#Packers S Sean Richardson (neck) said team doctor has cleared him to resume his career. Said 5 out of 5 doctors agreed it's safe to return.

Well golly, that is even better than an endorsement for Camels. Who gets the axe when Richardson is ready to activate? Cutting McMillian is probably the most obvious move. But I have a better idea, because McMillian might just have an unusually long learning curve: play him at receiver for a quarter in a game where the outcome is no longer in doubt, and chances are he leaves the game and heads straight for IR. No hard feelings, no need to fabricate anything.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d7gY7bTGog4/Tdo1-4ol8hI/AAAAAAAAAKA/cJNh9PhP410/s400/doctors-smoke-camel.jpg

[Tony Oday]

Finley is done and gone. We wont re-sign him to a large contract and some other team will.

[3irty1]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9863534

Get's out of the hospital today. 4-6 weeks. Should be able to resume his playing career if he chooses. His injury is thought to have been caused by extreme torque instead of spinal compression which has left everything looking good. He is no more likely to be reinjured than any other player.

[MadScientist]

Extreme torque? It didn't look like there was the twisting to cause extreme torque. Hope these doctors are better than the ones who looked at Charles Johnson's knee.

Still this has to be the best news Finley could have hoped for.

[Joemailman]

That article is a couple days old and may have been premature. He will be undergoing more tests to determine what caused the contusion. The cause will probably determine whether he is cleared to play again.

[Fritz]

WEDNESDAY PRACTICE

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
#Packers injury report:

FULL: Bush, Hayward, B.Jones, Starks.
OUT: Finley, Matthews.
DNP: J.Jones, Perry, R.Taylor.



Lotsa Packerrats don't like a full Bush.

[Joemailman]

Lotsa Packerrats don't like a full Bush.

Many would prefer no Bush at all.

[Pugger]

With the way our ST has been covering kicks Bush might be a welcome addition - as long as he isn't in there on defense.

[run pMc]

With the way our ST has been covering kicks Bush might be a welcome addition - as long as he isn't in there on defense.

I completely agree. They need help on ST's.
If Hayward is back there's no way Bush sees the field except for ST's. That's a well-stocked secondary with Tramon, Sam, House, Hyde, and Hayward.

[gbgary]

I'll bet he's back before december 1st.

[red]

I'll bet he's back before december 1st.

who, finley?

not a chance he plays again this season

[Guiness]

who, finley?

not a chance he plays again

FIFY

[Pugger]

None of us knows for sure how severe his injury is nor if it is truly career threatening so it is premature of us to say one way or another.

[George Cumby]

None of us knows for sure how severe his injury is nor if it is truly career threatening so it is premature of us to say one way or another.

What you don't believe all of us internet radiologists, orthopedists, soothsayers and psychics? :smile:

[MJZiggy]

What you don't believe all of us internet radiologists, orthopedists, soothsayers and psychics? :smile:And that's just the members of this board...

[Patler]

None of us knows for sure how severe his injury is nor if it is truly career threatening so it is premature of us to say one way or another.

Do any of us really know anything about what we comment on?
Just opinions, feelings or impressions based on more or less information with more or less foundational knowledge to apply. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. That is what we come here for, isn't it?

I'll be shocked if he plays again this year, and surprised if he plays again ever. Just a feeling that I have with no identifiable basis for it.

Either way, I think his career as a Packer is done, because I think it is unlikely that he will be re-signed.

[pbmax]

With the way our ST has been covering kicks Bush might be a welcome addition - as long as he isn't in there on defense.

Good news for you and red, there are 13 active cornerbacks on the roster now ahead of Bush.

[red]

Good news for you and red, there are 13 active cornerbacks on the roster now ahead of Bush.

its not enough, its never enough

[channtheman]

Do any of us really know anything about what we comment on?
Just opinions, feelings or impressions based on more or less information with more or less foundational knowledge to apply. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. That is what we come here for, isn't it?

I'll be shocked if he plays again this year, and surprised if he plays again ever. Just a feeling that I have with no identifiable basis for it.

Either way, I think his career as a Packer is done, because I think it is unlikely that he will be re-signed.

You said what I was thinking, but better than I ever could.

[red]

You said what I was thinking, but better than I ever could.

thats because patler knows everything

[Upnorth]

Do any of us really know anything about what we comment on?
Just opinions, feelings or impressions based on more or less information with more or less foundational knowledge to apply. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. That is what we come here for, isn't it?

I'll be shocked if he plays again this year, and surprised if he plays again ever. Just a feeling that I have with no identifiable basis for it.

Either way, I think his career as a Packer is done, because I think it is unlikely that he will be re-signed.

One thing I know is the Riders are going to kick the stamps butt in fifteen minutes. Go Riders Go

[George Cumby]

And that's just the members of this board...

I, myself, am a Druidic Soothsayer. I will let you all know what the goats entrails say about Big Fins future.

[bobblehead]

thats because patler knows everything

As proven by his post stating that none of us (including himself) really knows anything about what we are posting about.

[Iron Mike]

Lotsa Packerrats don't like a full Bush.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWshbNTYVqg

[Upnorth]

Many would prefer no Bush at all.

During the cuts I was surprised bush was never trimmed.

[George Cumby]

As proven by his post stating that none of us (including himself) really knows anything about what we are posting about.

He's kind of the Yoda of PR that way.

[Pugger]

I'm finding it rather curious Finley is not on IR yet. Could they be waiting to see if they can activate Sherrod soon?

[pbmax]

EDITED

I didn't think it would be hard to keep track of Finley's progress. here is an article he wrote for MMQB: http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/29/jermichael-finley-packers-injury-first-person/

Significant:

- had trouble speaking and breathing until Monday though at one point he attributes it to nerves
- 2 cm spinal cord contusion and no concussion
- says no decision has been made about his season
- financially will be fine regardless of outcome

[Bossman641]

I didn't think it would be hard to keep track of Finley's progress. here is an article he wrote for MMQB: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26024-the-future-of-finley&p=748292#post748292

Significant:

- had trouble speaking and breathing until Monday though at one point he attributes it to nerves
- 2 cm spinal cord contusion and no concussion
- says no decision has been made about his season
- financially will be fine regardless of outcome

Fixed the link for ya

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/29/jermichael-finley-packers-injury-first-person/

Finley has a $10M insurance policy on himself

[Patler]

I'm finding it rather curious Finley is not on IR yet. Could they be waiting to see if they can activate Sherrod soon?

They can't put Finley on IR until they decide who to replace him with. Scott Tolzien is on their practice squad, and is a third year player having spent two season with SF while playing in no games. As a third year player, he can be on the practice squad only if the Packers roster remains full at 53.

[Patler]

Fixed the link for ya

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/29/jermichael-finley-packers-injury-first-person/

Finley has a $10M insurance policy on himself

Sounds like he might have dodged a bullet with this injury.
Nice to see a player who apparently found good advisers, and then had sense enough to listen to them.

[pbmax]

My sources tell me Jermichael Finley is in Rochester MN, getting an opinion on his neck/spinal column injury.

Jermichael Finley ‏@JermichaelF88 1h
The road back begins now.. At the @MayoClinic with @FCintermedia to give you the behind the scenes look #PackerNation pic.twitter.com/TYXPekcn1t

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYPY6JUCUAAgOqc.jpg:large

[Zool]

I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of JMike FinFin at my fine work establishment. I can, however, confirm the 364 days a year of road construction.

[red]

at least he's doing it the right way and going to see the right people about this, and not some new age quack

[MadtownPacker]

Fixed the link for ya

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/29/jermichael-finley-packers-injury-first-person/

Finley has a $10M insurance policy on himself
Guess he ain't that stupid after all.

[KYPack]

Guess he ain't that stupid after all.

Smart, fertile, with poor hands.

[Freak Out]

LOL.

[gbgary]

back by december one.

[MadScientist]

And done.
Finley on IR.

[red]

And done.
Finley on IR.

surprised it took this long mighty davros

[gbgary]

back by december one.

nevermind. lol

[Rutnstrut]

I really think Fin is done forever, I think coming back is going to be to much mentally for him. He really seemed shook up in the interviews.

[denverYooper]

I really think Fin is done forever, I think coming back is going to be to much mentally for him. He really seemed shook up in the interviews.

You might be right, so long as he really has been smart with his money.

I wouldn't blame him one bit.

[MadScientist]

You might be right, so long as he really has been smart with his money.

I wouldn't blame him one bit.
Just needs 1 or 2 doctors to sign off on a recommendation to retire and let him collect the $10M insurance policy (IIRC insurance policies are not taxed, no union fees and may not have a cut going to his agent either, so it would be like getting a $20M contract). That would enough to take care of him and all of his kids unless he is really stupid about things.