Bad locker room in Miami?

[bobblehead]

Martin's side got to the media first, and was able to frame this story with true, but selective details.

Did you actually read it? It clearly says that Martin hasn't said anything at all yet. The only thing his side did was release a voicemail to the media. Yes, that is a selective detail, but its the only response in any way Martin has given so far.

He may have told Big Dick that it had nothing to do with him, but that is also a good way of saying "I am not having this conversation with you asshole, and this is the best way to stop you from bothering me."

I had this king kong jack off of a boss once at a financial firm not to be named. I knew he wasn't going anywhere so I positioned myself to leave and when he asked me why I didn't feel like talking to him so I said "just time for a change." I could have said "because you are a fucking assmunch and I don't want to work with you or for you for ten more minutes." That however would have lead to him acting stunned, asking for explanations and engaging in conversations that weren't worth my time (he wasn't changing and I wasn't staying). Like Martin, I simply tipped the fuck out the door.

[NewsBruin]

Did you actually read it? It clearly says that Martin hasn't said anything at all yet. The only thing his side did was release a voicemail to the media. Yes, that is a selective detail, but its the only response in any way Martin has given so far.

He may have told Big Dick that it had nothing to do with him, but that is also a good way of saying "I am not having this conversation with you asshole, and this is the best way to stop you from bothering me."

See, I was thinking about the details that were described when this story first came out. Initially, it was "Martin didn't return after an incident in the cafeteria." That was a straight-up report that could have come from anyone.

The next details that came out were the standing-up-and-walking-off description and then the background that Incognito had asked him for $15,000 for an offseason Vegas trip that Martin didn't go on. We were all left to draw our own conclusions. Only the offensive line would have known about the trip, and (unless you can name me a more likely source) only someone associated with Martin would have mentioned that snippet in relation to Martin's absence from the team. Also, any other offensive lineman would have said that the walkout prank had been pulled before on other linemen (if those unattributed reports are true).

In addition, those background details came out around the same time as the updates to Martin's location (checked into hospital for emotional stress, now in Cali). The initial info seems very favorable to Martin's side of things and very plugged in to his whereabouts.

It took until Tuesday for the o-line to violate the gag order, Incognito's been a Twitter laureate, the Dolphin office staff has only said enough to CYA, and Martin's been incommunicado. I'm not sure whom else would have put out the details. I surmise that the local press found out about the walkout and the rest has been backed by Martin's side. Not that they're wrong to do that (nor do I know how much they knew about the trip), but the full picture's taken a while to develop.

[denverYooper]

It took until Tuesday for the o-line to violate the gag order, Incognito's been a Twitter laureate, the Dolphin office staff has only said enough to CYA, and Martin's been incommunicado. I'm not sure whom else would have put out the details. I surmise that the local press found out about the walkout and the rest has been backed by Martin's side. Not that they're wrong to do that (nor do I know how much they knew about the trip), but the full picture's taken a while to develop.

One thing's for sure, Martin has killer representation: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/07/david-cornwells-statement-regarding-jonathan-martin/

[Joemailman]

One thing's for sure, Martin has killer representation: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/07/david-cornwells-statement-regarding-jonathan-martin/

The attorney's statement does bring up an issue I'd been thinking about. Statements have been made by Dolphin players that Martin and Incognito seemed to be friends. Did Martin try to befriend Incognito in the hope that that would make the harassment stop? Just speculating here, but it's possible.

[Patler]

The attorney's statement does bring up an issue I'd been thinking about. Statements have been made by Dolphin players that Martin and Incognito seemed to be friends. Did Martin try to befriend Incognito in the hope that that would make the harassment stop? Just speculating here, but it's possible.

Perhaps even likely.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Trying to figure this mystery out is like forming an opinion about who is at fault in a divorce. It's hard to know even if you know the couple well, and here we don't know shit about the personal relationships on that team.

Speaking of Big Weirdo, Incognito got kicked off of three teams for non-football behavioral issues. That's pretty damn weird. I can't think of another situation like this.

Incognito was physically abused by his dad as a kid, if reports are correct.

I don't put much stock in what teammate say. Big Weirdo did not fit-in with the guys, they probably had zero idea what was really going on with him.

I hope both guys get back on the team. The only thing I'm sure of is that the guys on the team saying "no big deal here" are dead wrong. In fact, they are now a big part of the problem. I'd like to see the personal problems worked out, not swept under carpet, and the team move forward. Sounds idealistic, but I expect it will eventually get fixed.

[woodbuck27]

One thing's for sure, Martin has killer representation: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/07/david-cornwells-statement-regarding-jonathan-martin/

** The issue is Jonathan’s treatment by his teammates. Jonathan endured harassment that went far beyond the traditional locker room hazing.

** For the entire season-and-a-half that he was with the Dolphins, he attempted to befriend the same teammates who subjected him to the abuse with the hope that doing so would end the harassment.

** This is a textbook reaction of victims of bullying. Despite these efforts, the taunting continued

** Beyond the well-publicized voice mail with its racial epithet, Jonathan endured a malicious physical attack on him by a teammate, and daily vulgar comments.

** Jonathan looks forward to getting back to playing football. In the meantime, he will cooperate fully with the NFL investigation.

Comment woodbuck27:

Jonathan Martin`s case is now crystal clear.

[George Cumby]

Trying to figure this mystery out is like forming an opinion about who is at fault in a divorce. It's hard to know even if you know the couple well, and here we don't know shit about the personal relationships on that team.

Speaking of Big Weirdo, Incognito got kicked off of three teams for non-football behavioral issues. That's pretty damn weird. I can't think of another situation like this.

Incognito was physically abused by his dad as a kid, if reports are correct.

I don't put much stock in what teammate say. Big Weirdo did not fit-in with the guys, they probably had zero idea what was really going on with him.

I hope both guys get back on the team. The only thing I'm sure of is that the guys on the team saying "no big deal here" are dead wrong. In fact, they are now a big part of the problem. I'd like to see the personal problems worked out, not swept under carpet, and the team move forward. Sounds idealistic, but I expect it will eventually get fixed.

Nice post.

[KYPack]

Trying to figure this mystery out is like forming an opinion about who is at fault in a divorce. It's hard to know even if you know the couple well, and here we don't know shit about the personal relationships on that team.

Speaking of Big Weirdo, Incognito got kicked off of three teams for non-football behavioral issues. That's pretty damn weird. I can't think of another situation like this.

Incognito was physically abused by his dad as a kid, if reports are correct.

I don't put much stock in what teammate say. Big Weirdo did not fit-in with the guys, they probably had zero idea what was really going on with him.

I hope both guys get back on the team. The only thing I'm sure of is that the guys on the team saying "no big deal here" are dead wrong. In fact, they are now a big part of the problem. I'd like to see the personal problems worked out, not swept under carpet, and the team move forward. Sounds idealistic, but I expect it will eventually get fixed.

There was a Nebraska football player goofier than RI. You remember Christian Peter? Google that boy, must be something in the corn out there.

I hadn't heard the Icognito's father abused him, but I sure don't doubt, based on the stuff tumbling out of Sr's mouth.

[Kiwon]

Kiwon, the title honorary black man is as meaningless as it is nebulous. Was there a vote? What is the list of qualifications? Given the meaning in the locker room, does every African-American on the team even qualify? Can 1,2 or 5 Arfrican-Ameican men decide what it and isn't racism for others? Its reductive and ridiculous. The use of the slur in the voicemail mail makes it clear Incognito doesn't understand context because that is not a conversational colloquialism. And it appears that Martin did not accept it as a good natured jibe.

I agree completely with your second paragraph and I suspect that is why so many, perhaps expectedly, defend Incognito. But let's be clear. Their statements are also defending themselves against charges that they are miscreants that allowed this kind of behavior to occur. So there is a lot of self-interest here, especially against the charge of racism. It is odd that I have not seen anyone ask about the Vegas trip because legally, I would be more worried about extortion.

I think the first three reports of Martin's trouble were one, left the team, two, that he felt bullied and harassed and third was the Vegas trip. None of those are incorrect as we know the situation today. You cannot take Martin's actions and make a determination of fault based solely on whether charges of racism stick. Its obviously a lot more complicated than that.

Spin, spin, spin. Are you getting dizzy yet?

PB, give it up already, your hoped-for narrative doesn't hold water. You say, "The use of the slur in the voicemail mail makes it clear Incognito doesn't understand context because that is not a conversational colloquialism."

"makes it clear"? To whom? You, who doesn't know the individuals or the details of the relationship they had? You are the one who doesn't understand the context. You are superimposing your language rules and values on them - White man A says N-word to Black man B therefore White A is a racist pig. Well, sorry, they don't play by your rules. Did you miss the part that reportedly ALL the players talked trash to one another and Incognito said the same thing to Martin face to face and they both laughed about it? There's your context.

Black teammates that personally know both players say Incognito isn't a racist. Why don't you believe them? Why doesn't first-hand testimony mean anything to you? Where do you get this supernatural insight that somehow they missed? (cf, Mike Nifong in the Duke lacrosse case.)

You say, "You cannot take Martin's actions and make a determination of fault based solely on whether charges of racism stick." Correct. Likewise, you can't take Incognito's words on the voicemail and make a determination of fault based on whether they offend you and violate your subjective definition of racist behavior. The same for his ethnicity, appearance, or past behavior. This particular situation IS more complicated than that.....but many in the media and broader culture didn't think so and were all too eager to reach first for the race card.

Facts trump one’s own personal biases and presuppositions or they should at least in a fair society.

[pbmax]

I don't need to know the context of the conversation or relationship between Martin and Incognito because I do know Martin objected to it. He walked away from a multi-million dollar career to put a stop to it. he went to the authority structure on his team to voice his concerns. He talked to his agent.

So you ask us to base this on facts not personal bias. I have told you why I think the teammates testimony is somewhat self-serving (though still a net positive for Incognito).

Why don't you believe Martin's feet and forfeiture?

[denverYooper]

did she get a medal? That is what my son gets for just about everything, got a trophy last year in baseball where they didn't keep score. His response, "Dad this is cool but how much cooler will it be when I actually earn it?!" Yes my son you are doing it right.

No medals, no ribbons either. She took a detour during the race to check out the port-a-potties by the side of the course.

[Patler]

Why are we focusing only on the racism aspect of this? It is about much more than just racism.

[Zool]

Why are we focusing only on the racism aspect of this? It is about much more than just racism.

Because apparently that's the only thing people consider offensive.

[hoosier]

Why are we focusing only on the racism aspect of this? It is about much more than just racism.

A. focusing on race allows some people to interject ideology or make this story confirmation of their own political position.
B. the racialized language in this context is one of the hardest elements to rationalize as something harmless. "I'm going to kill you" could be a threat on Martin's life but, in the right context, it could also easily be a joke. (Anecdotally, just yesterday I passed on something very confidential to a colleague at work in an email, and told him that if he spilled the beans I would have to kill him. I did not worry for a moment that he would take it the wrong way. With my black colleagues, however, I would never in a thousand years use racist language in a joking way.)
C. We are not focusing only on race. Only a very small subset.

[Patler]

C. We are not focusing only on race. Only a very small subset.

Not the way I am perceiving this thread.

[hoosier]

So then the proper question is, Why does Patler perceive this thread to be predominantly about race? :-)

[denverYooper]

There have been several passionate side discussions in the media throughout the week regarding racism so I can see where some might get the impression that this is the central issue. It's clear from Martin's lawyer's statement, however, that Martin has perceived a pattern of abuse over and above the normal rookie hazing that is part NFL locker-room fraternity. My take at the moment is that he figured it would just stop after a year and it didn't so he finally left the situation. At this point, I'm not sure if he originally intended to make it a legal battle or if that just came about after the initial discussion revolved around him being mentally unstable.

The first few days saw discussion of the walkout just being his mental instability. Then news started trickling out about hazing, and finally the initial voicemail was leaked out. Then, nothing more from Martin's camp. Later in the week, you had several Dolphins players essentially come out on Incognito's side and saw the court of opinion swing more toward the idea that Martin was "too soft" for the NFL and couldn't handle some teasing. Once that narrative gained traction, Martin lawyered up and the statement I linked above was posted. The statement is indicated to show a pattern of abuse over and above what he considered to be normal.

People get caught up in the language of specific statements and whether or not that is acceptable in the context of a peer group in which such language is generally taken as a common pidgin involved in a kind of warrior bonding, but the real issue seems to be a consistent pattern of abuse and a lack of support from teammates. Incognito has already been shown, over the course of his career, to engage in a pattern of such treatment. Maybe it's half in jest, and he's probably not really racist. But I'd be willing to bet that the evidence they have on record can be used to advance the threat of hate crime charges, and when it comes to evidence and execution, Martin's camp is holding some pretty high cards. They can make Incognito's life hell if they want.

In short, this could all just be about revenge.

One last thought: the Dolphins would do well to just learn to say "no comment" at this point. Notice that you don't hear many on the OL speaking on the record. The other position groups would be wise to follow.

[bobblehead]

So then the proper question is, Why does Patler perceive this thread to be predominantly about race? :-)

Identity issues and a lack of feeling he belongs. He is a white dog with black ears....its very confusing.

[bobblehead]

There have been several passionate side discussions in the media throughout the week regarding racism so I can see where some might get the impression that this is the central issue. It's clear from Martin's lawyer's statement, however, that Martin has perceived a pattern of abuse over and above the normal rookie hazing that is part NFL locker-room fraternity. My take at the moment is that he figured it would just stop after a year and it didn't so he finally left the situation. At this point, I'm not sure if he originally intended to make it a legal battle or if that just came about after the initial discussion revolved around him being mentally unstable.

The first few days saw discussion of the walkout just being his mental instability. Then news started trickling out about hazing, and finally the initial voicemail was leaked out. Then, nothing more from Martin's camp. Later in the week, you had several Dolphins players essentially come out on Incognito's side and saw the court of opinion swing more toward the idea that Martin was "too soft" for the NFL and couldn't handle some teasing. Once that narrative gained traction, Martin lawyered up and the statement I linked above was posted. The statement is indicated to show a pattern of abuse over and above what he considered to be normal.

People get caught up in the language of specific statements and whether or not that is acceptable in the context of a peer group in which such language is generally taken as a common pidgin involved in a kind of warrior bonding, but the real issue seems to be a consistent pattern of abuse and a lack of support from teammates. Incognito has already been shown, over the course of his career, to engage in a pattern of such treatment. Maybe it's half in jest, and he's probably not really racist. But I'd be willing to bet that the evidence they have on record can be used to advance the threat of hate crime charges, and when it comes to evidence and execution, Martin's camp is holding some pretty high cards. They can make Incognito's life hell if they want.

In short, this could all just be about revenge.

One last thought: the Dolphins would do well to just learn to say "no comment" at this point. Notice that you don't hear many on the OL speaking on the record. The other position groups would be wise to follow.

Great post of the timeline and analyzing certain aspects. To me I simply look at history (a habit I have if you read in FYI). Richie is a DICK! No other way to put it. Is martin too soft? Maybe, but I doubt he has any real problems on a team like the packers....we still know richie is a dick, so based on their history I am tending to side with Martin on this.

[George Cumby]

Great post of the timeline and analyzing certain aspects. To me I simply look at history (a habit I have if you read in FYI). Richie is a DICK! No other way to put it. Is martin too soft? Maybe, but I doubt he has any real problems on a team like the packers....we still know richie is a dick, so based on their history I am tending to side with Martin on this.

This.

Most of us, myself included, have formulated opinions, jumped to conclusions or straight up speculated based on the little and incomplete information we have at our disposal. Our ability to discern the facts clearly is hampered by the incessant barrage of misinformation, inane babble and vomitus fired upon us by the media.

Yoop brings up a really good point about how the dolphins have managed this debacle. At every turn they have taken the wrong fork in the road. It's like a drunken Mr. Magoo is driving their bus. It really is uncanny how badly they have handled this thing.

[Guiness]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/former-dolphins-lineman-lydon-murtha-explains-jonathan-martin-165157389--nfl.html

Just another person in support of an evil bigot that picked on "Big Weirdo"

That is an interesting article, and adds to the list of confusing things about this whole story.

I take two things from this article - one, that Martin was not fitting in, and not just because of Incognito. Two - that the coaching staff told other players to do something about it. My guess is Incognito took that to heart, and practiced some 'tough love' which went too far when exposed to the public eye. I think the coaching staff ends up largely being at fault here, as I said earlier, they released the Kraken ignorant of the possible effects.

[Upnorth]

This whole thing reminds me of one guy in one unit I was posted to. Big guy, been around for a long time, was an okay worker and knowledgeable, but sucked at real leadership. When he didn't get his way so long as no one of higher rank was around he tried to intimidate by raising voice and getting in your space. He had me flummoxed for the first few months while I tried to be his friend, much like martin. The way he turned on a dime from friend to bully really messed with me till I just started to turn my back on him in the middle of his bs. At first he called me a lot of names and shit, but it eventually stopped. One thing that bugged me was no one else he did this to followed suit.
I may be projecting my personal into the scenario but I see incognito as trying to control his group and be the alpha, martin not buying his bs and being ostracized. Incognito targeting martin makes everything easier for everyone else and them not noticing the tension rise since theirs has been reduced.
When shit hits the fan no one knows what was really going on. Martin should have reported it right away but on a team no wants to rock the boat right out of the gate and then it became a habit

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/08/poll-of-players-suggests-most-wouldnt-want-incognito-as-a-teammate/

Poll of players suggests most wouldn’t want Incognito as a teammate

Posted by Michael David Smith on November 8, 2013, 3:52 PM EST

" ESPN asked 72 players (three per team on 24 teams) whom they would rather have as a teammate, Incognito or Jonathan Martin. Only 15 said Incognito, while 34 said Martin and 23 said they wouldn’t want either one of them as a teammate. "

[Harlan Huckleby]

Poll of players suggests most wouldn’t want Incognito as a teammate

A poll? Fascinating idea.

[pbmax]

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/incognito-violated-nfl-policy-before-with-no-sanctions.html


According to the victim, Incognito used his golf club to touch her by rubbing it up against her vagina, then up her stomach then to her chest. He then used the club to knock sunglasses off the top of her head. After that, he proceeded to lean up against her buttocks with his private parts as if dancing, saying "Let it rain. Let it rain." He finally finished by emptying a bottled water on her face.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/incognito-violated-nfl-policy-before-with-no-sanctions.html#storylink=cpy

Dolphins' Joe Philbin says they took care of this in-house.

[pbmax]

Why are we focusing only on the racism aspect of this? It is about much more than just racism.


Because apparently that's the only thing people consider offensive.

It is the most sensational charge and the one most easily contested in this case so far.

But without the racial remarks I would doubt whether Incognito is off the team right now. I don't think it changes who he is or the internal problems that led to this, but I think the Dolphins give themselves more time to react.

[woodbuck27]

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/incognito-violated-nfl-policy-before-with-no-sanctions.html



Dolphins' Joe Philbin says they took care of this in-house.

What a pile of crap. What did Incognito do next?

Birdie the next hole?

[pbmax]

What a pile of crap. What did Incognito do next?

Birdie the next hole?

Groped the bird at the next hole more likely.

[red]

so with almost all of richies teammates coming out to say how great of a guy he is i guess i'm left wondering if incognito has infected the team with his way of thinking

do young guys on that team now think its ok to grope a woman at a team functioned even and treat their teammates like lower than life piles of shit because they saw richie do it with what looks like the support of the team?

we all wanted to be and act like someone who was older than us when we were kids, and well these are kids in adults bodies. is there some rookie or so seeing this happened and thinking

"Oh man, did you just see richie dog that weird fuck. yeah fuck him, he is weird. Ima do that too, cause that shits cool. now lets go rape some drunk bitches and drive around all fucked up"

[red]

wow, the incognito interview just turned the whole thing on its head IMO

plus he gave Jay his phone so he could read all the texts on there. jay says it was very back and forth and all in good fun. then the last text from martin came after this whole thing blew up and he's saying he doesn't blame richie for anything, and its not him thats telling the media this stuff

very weird. then all the fox guys seemed to agree with incognito

if anything, this whole mess just shows how detached from society you're average NFL players really is

[KYPack]

wow, the incognito interview just turned the whole thing on its head IMO

plus he gave Jay his phone so he could read all the texts on there. jay says it was very back and forth and all in good fun. then the last text from martin came after this whole thing blew up and he's saying he doesn't blame richie for anything, and its not him thats telling the media this stuff

very weird. then all the fox guys seemed to agree with incognito

if anything, this whole mess just shows how detached from society you're average NFL players really is
What did he say, Red?

I was busy on the leaf pile.

[MJZiggy]

wow, the incognito interview just turned the whole thing on its head IMO

plus he gave Jay his phone so he could read all the texts on there. jay says it was very back and forth and all in good fun. then the last text from martin came after this whole thing blew up and he's saying he doesn't blame richie for anything, and its not him thats telling the media this stuff

very weird. then all the fox guys seemed to agree with incognito

if anything, this whole mess just shows how detached from society you're average NFL players really isall I could think was that if the whole world is jumping down Incognito's throat for this, and it's not his doing, then Martin has a responsibility to speak up about it. The man's getting tossed off his team. If he didn't do what he's accused of, that's the least Martin could do.

[red]

What did he say, Red?

I was busy on the leaf pile.

it was a long interview, but richie pretty much said it was a friendly back and forth between the two for a very long time. he also said that whole o-line group talks that way to each other all the time.

its worth looking for the video online, it was a fox interview

[Tony Oday]

But he is an evil bigot bully!!!!

[red]

heres the interview. its a must watch IMO

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Richie-Incognito-Miami-Dolphins-Jonathan-Martin-Jay-Glazer-full-transcript-111013

[Infamous]

But he is an evil bigot bully!!!!


They should ban all white people from NFL except kickers and punters.....hmmm, interesting that no brothers kick or punt! why is that?

Just rickey roby right?

Altho Matt Turk was honorary brother while at my undergrad

[pbmax]

If Martin was this close to Incognito, if it wasn't one-sided, then how does he not know that his fired is thinking of leaving his career?

There is still a large disconnect here.

[Tony Oday]

I think most of you just like the narrative that Icognito is an evil bigot that is the popular kid that shoved you in a locker in school when in fact it is coming out that they were actually friends and Martin is just a little weak in the head and the stuff in the locker room got to him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was busy on the leaf pile.

http://img.ccdn.cannabisculture.com/files/library/images/uploads/3176-DSC02290.jpg

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think most of you just like the narrative that Icognito is an evil bigot that is the popular kid that shoved you in a locker in school when in fact it is coming out that they were actually friends and Martin is just a little weak in the head and the stuff in the locker room got to him.

Now, you just saw an interview with one party who spun things in his favor, and you take this as proof that the issue is understood and settled.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But he is an evil bigot bully!!!!

Incognito has a long rap sheet as a bully, or at least out-of-control boorish behavior. I was always skeptical that he was a bigot or evil.

I don't completely disagree with you about either Martin or Icognito. I see them as flawed people where they each brought-out the other's deficiencies. I think this is a personal problem to get solved.

[pbmax]

I think most of you just like the narrative that Icognito is an evil bigot that is the popular kid that shoved you in a locker in school when in fact it is coming out that they were actually friends and Martin is just a little weak in the head and the stuff in the locker room got to him.

There we go, mind reading, the best argument ender of all time.

How about the idea that Incognito as unrepentant jackass on the field (and twice booted off his own team) was the best explanation at the time, given the known facts?

And come on. You should know that popular kids get someone else to do the shoving into a locker, its how you stay popular and out of detention.

[Harlan Huckleby]

(and twice booted off his own team)

Actually this will be his fourth booting, if it goes down that way.

[KYPack]

heres the interview. its a must watch IMO

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Richie-Incognito-Miami-Dolphins-Jonathan-Martin-Jay-Glazer-full-transcript-111013

Thx for posting that one, Red.

It's fairly safe to say that nobody knows what's going on.

Not me, not Red, not Tony.

What will be the outcome of this whole deal?

I think Ireland and Joe Philbin are gone by the end of the season, post SB.

I also think Martin and Richie never play another down in an NFL game.

Would that be righteous?

Who knows?

[pbmax]

Actually this will be his fourth booting, if it goes down that way.

Nebraska, Rams (possibly Dolphins) and who else?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nebraska, Rams (possibly Dolphins) and who else?

He went to Oregon after Nebraska and was soon ejected due to .... who knows, but he was evidently a jerk.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1838248-controversy-at-every-turn-the-career-of-richie-incognito

[pbmax]

He went to Oregon after Nebraska and was soon ejected due to .... who knows, but he was evidently a jerk.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1838248-controversy-at-every-turn-the-career-of-richie-incognito

Ah, I did not see that he lasted at Oregon only a week.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ya know, I posted somewhere that Incognito was abused by his father as a kid. Not sure where I read that, but I haven't seen that reported again. So I wonder if it is a fact or speculation.

[hoosier]

Ya know, I posted somewhere that Incognito was abused by his father as a kid. Not sure where I read that, but I haven't seen that reported again. So I wonder if it is a fact or speculation.

Big Daddy no doubt got to whoever published that report, so it is now officially idle speculation. And once the TB-MIA game is mercifully over maybe this story will also come to an end and people can start focusing on more important questions like:

Is Carolina that good or is San Fran just highly overrated? Or were they cursed by the return of Aldon Smith?

Has any team in recent memory been as up and down from week to week as Indy recently?

[ThunderDan]

Now, you just saw an interview with one party who spun things in his favor, and you take this as proof that the issue is understood and settled.

This person saw the same interview and came up with the same conclusion.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1844490-richie-incognito-tv-interview-offers-one-telling-non-answer-and-a-lot-of-pr-bunk?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=cnn-br-bin&hpt=hp_bn8

[pbmax]

This person saw the same interview and came up with the same conclusion.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1844490-richie-incognito-tv-interview-offers-one-telling-non-answer-and-a-lot-of-pr-bunk?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=cnn-br-bin&hpt=hp_bn8

That article was depressing. Here comes PR Goodell. I never thought I would long for the days of Paul Tagliabue.

[Guiness]

Ah, I did not see that he lasted at Oregon only a week.

Didn't even make it into fall camp. Article makes it seem he was supposed to spend a year with the team without getting on the field, then play the following year. He didn't make it as far as camp the first year.

[pbmax]

Okay, before theMMQB.com took off, I don't think I knew who Robert Klemko was. But he is doing yeoman's work on this story for them.

Very good summation of how the Dolphins got to this point.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/08/jonathan-martin-race-in-the-nfl/

And the best summary of it I can give is this:


Asked if it was okay for a white person to say “nigger,” rookie defensive end Dion Jordan said he didn’t believe it was an acceptable word for anyone to say.

So would he step up and object if he heard a player say it?

“Well that’s between the player and whoever he’s talking to,” Jordan said.

When Incognito is a bona fide team leader, you are going to get bad results. And that reflects poorly on the GM and Head Coach.

[KYPack]

Thx for posting that one, Red.

It's fairly safe to say that nobody knows what's going on.

Not me, not Red, not Tony.

What will be the outcome of this whole deal?

I think Ireland and Joe Philbin are gone by the end of the season, post SB.

I also think Martin and Richie never play another down in an NFL game.

Would that be righteous?

Who knows?

Heard an interesting point this AM.

Martin has the Stanford connection working with two clubs.

Indy (Luck) and SF (Harbaugh), might work in his favor.

Big Rich? I dunno, lotsa baggage with that big oaf.

[Tony Oday]

ROGER GOODELL

I WANT THE TRUTH!

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

4 hours ago . Like




PHILIP RIVERS

Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin?

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

Goodell, we live in a world that has QBs, and those QBs have to be guarded by men who block.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

Who’s gonna do it? You? You Lieutenant McKinnie?

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

I have a greater responsibility than you can POSSIBLY fathom. You weep for Jonathan Martin, and you curse the locker room culture. You have that luxury.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: That the Jonathan Martin scandal, while tragic, also makes him kind of a pussy. And Richie Incognito’s bullying, while mean-spirited and racist, was supposed to make Martin LESS of a pussy.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about in huddles, you want tough guys on that line. You NEED tough guys on that line.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

NFL players say things like the “N” word, the “F” word, and the “R” word.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

They say these things because… well, because there’s still a lot of small-minded, terrible bigotry in the world, I suppose. But you use them as mob-inciting buzzwords.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who profits as a result of the very protection that I provide, and then QUESTIONS the manner in which I provide it.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

I would rather you just say, “thank you,” and write me a check. Otherwise, I suggest you put on some pads, and learn to pick up a blitz.

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

Either way, I don’t give a DAMN what you think you are entitled to.

4 hours ago . Like




ROGER GOODELL

Did you order the Code Teal?

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

I did the job I had to do…

4 hours ago . Like




ROGER GOODELL

DID YOU ORDER THE CODE TEAL?!

4 hours ago . Like




JOE PHILBIN

YOU’RE GODDAMN RIGHT I DID!

4 hours ago . Like

Stole this from Profootballmock.com :) Funny stuff

[Joemailman]

TJ Lang tweeting on the Miami situation.


TJ Lang ‏@TJLang70 2h

Please don't stereotype NFL players for what's going on with Miami. That type of stuff is not common in other locker rooms.


Not sure IF TJ would know what goes on in other locker rooms, but he obviously would know about his own. I've always had a hunch Green Bay was a lot different than what goes on in Miami, but I don't know which team is closer to the norm.

[pbmax]

Judging from the report, Joe Philbin was unaware there was a Code Teal.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24443038/wells-report-richie-incognito-john-jerry-pouncey-harassed-martin

[Kiwon]

Just curious.....in the Trayvon Martin case, George Zimmerman went from "Hispanic" to "White Hispanic" in the press.

How long before guard John Jerry and center Mike Pouncey will go in the media from "African-American" to "White African-American"?

[bobblehead]

JOE PHILBIN

I would rather you just say, “thank you,” and write me a check. Otherwise, I suggest you put on some pads, and learn to pick up a blitz.

Almost stopped reading when I hit this and the image of Goodell trying to stop a blitzing claymaker entered my head...I giggled a lot.

[bobblehead]

Judging from the report, Joe Philbin was unaware there was a Code Teal.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24443038/wells-report-richie-incognito-john-jerry-pouncey-harassed-martin

Joe Philbin is simply a better liar than Col. Jessup.

[pbmax]

Joe Philbin is simply a better liar than Col. Jessup.

That is not a superlative I would be proud of.

[mraynrand]

That is not a superlative I would be proud of.

is there another kind?

[pbmax]

is there another kind?

Probably poor word choice. Was thinking of grammatical description of something being more (-er or better) or most (-est or best) of a trait. Not ringing a bell now. Like inferior/superior, but with a middle option. I was thinking comparative/superlative.

Point was that not only is Philbin a liar in your scenario but he is also a poor leader. Lying publicly, for a coach these days, is practically expected. Lying to an internal investigation is perhaps much riskier. But, taking your point seriously for a moment, actually not being able to control what you may have allowed/set into motion, is the poorest recommendation of a coach I can think of, other than being hired by the Browns.

[Patler]

Probably poor word choice. Was thinking of grammatical description of something being more (-er or better) or most (-est or best) of a trait. Not ringing a bell now. Like inferior/superior, but with a middle option.


more accomplished, as in: "a more accomplished liar than..."

[pbmax]

more accomplished, as in: "a more accomplished liar than..."

Yes, your construction makes sense. I edited my post to reflect what I thought was the correct terminology (comparative/superlative) but I could be wrong.

[mraynrand]

PB - I was just throwing out a line from "A Few Good Men"

He was in danger?
Yes
Grave danger?
Is there another kind?

[mraynrand]

Probably poor word choice. Was thinking of grammatical description of something being more (-er or better) or most (-est or best) of a trait. Not ringing a bell now. Like inferior/superior, but with a middle option. I was thinking comparative/superlative.

Point was that not only is Philbin a liar in your scenario but he is also a poor leader. Lying publicly, for a coach these days, is practically expected. Lying to an internal investigation is perhaps much riskier. But, taking your point seriously for a moment, actually not being able to control what you may have allowed/set into motion, is the poorest recommendation of a coach I can think of, other than being hired by the Browns.

I take your point. It doesn't get much worse than a leader using ignorance as an excuse for incompetence (or any other fault).

[pbmax]

PB - I was just throwing out a line from "A Few Good Men"

He was in danger?
Yes
Grave danger?
Is there another kind?

Ah, a whiff by me. Time to sit down for a game and take a rest.

[Guiness]

I take your point. It doesn't get much worse than a leader using ignorance as an excuse for incompetence (or any other fault).

If you think so, then you need to pay more attention to Canadian politics. Our Prime Minister, when questioned under oath during a corruption trial, answered 'I don't remember'. Of course, he also endeared himself to may by chocking out a protester that got in his face. They even made a commemorative beer of the occasion!
http://www.postcity.com/Eat-Shop-Do/Eat/July-2013/First-Draught-Shawinigan-Handshake-a-hoppy-wheat-beer-from-Quebec/shawnigan-handshake-beer.jpg

[mraynrand]

^^^ interesting story, but does it belong in the Great Beers thread or FYI? :)

[Cheesehead Craig]

Glad Incognito got called out for what happened. Guess his opening of the gates of hell on everyone is going to have to wait for a bit.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Didn't Martin learn how to deal with bullies? Call them out in front of a group of people and make them prove their toughness. See if they fuck with you again.

[esoxx]

Per Pro Football Talk, Buffalo has agreement in place with Ritchie Incognito.

Big Rich & Rex Ryan.

Perfect marriage.

[woodbuck27]

Per Pro Football Talk, Buffalo has agreement in place with Ritchie Incognito.

Big Rich & Rex Ryan.

Perfect marriage.

How many floors underground did you have to go to find this thread?