Scott Motherf***ing Tolzien

[CaptainKickass]

Pretty good for a half. Obviously Scott has a livelier and/or younger arm than Seneca. He's got the 1 almost interception but I think he's shown enough to remain in for the rest of the game regardless of whether Seneca's vagina stops hurting.

C'mon Scott! I'm rootin' for you!!

(Also - The Captain may be drunk before noon here on the west coast :glug:)


:pack:

[KYPack]

Pretty good for a half. Obviously Scott has a livelier and/or younger arm than Seneca. He's got the 1 almost interception but I think he's shown enough to remain in for the rest of the game regardless of whether Seneca's vagina stops hurting.

C'mon Scott! I'm rootin' for you!!

(Also - The Captain may be drunk before noon here on the west coast :glug:)


:pack:


Have at it, Cap.

My rum allotment is way up this game, too.

[Upnorth]

Not bad for how long he has been off the practice squad. How is the philly d at adjustments. Also great play calling by MM

[Infamous]

Killians Irsh Red is mandatory for early games.....appreciate that KY?

[Infamous]

Also great play calling by MM


+1

[CaptainKickass]

Drowning my sorrows with an old favorite,

In my gameday glass

Whilst chillin' in my recliner

http://i43.tinypic.com/20jsnco.jpg






^^ this is an actual photo of my actual glass in my actual living room with my actual drink and actual pickled asparagus!

[George Cumby]

Drowning my sorrows with an old favorite,

In my gameday glass

Whilst chillin' in my recliner

http://i43.tinypic.com/20jsnco.jpg






^^ this is an actual photo of my actual glass in my actual living room with my actual drink and actual pickled asparagus!

If I may be so bold: try salting the rim next time. You can thank me later.

[channtheman]

Wrong thread

[CaptainKickass]

If I may be so bold: try salting the rim next time. You can thank me later.


No one can stop you, but I actually hate that salted rim bullshit.

The only time I enjoy it is when I make my - Bloody: "Mary the Lard Ass". It's basically what you see in my pic, except in addition to the pickled asparagus, the drink is garnished with an actual strip of thick sliced crunchy bacon and I serve it in a glass with the rim salted in Bacon Salt.

http://www.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2008/11/bacon_salt-1.jpg



How bout that Tolzien Kid huh?

[Bossman641]

Tolzien has some tools, I'd stick with him over Wallace no matter what

[George Cumby]

He's got heart and a better arm. I agree with going with him over SW.

I'll have to try the bacon Bloody Mary.

[pbmax]

No, can't do that. I loved his effort today and think he is the new developmental guy.

But you can't heave INTs when your are the limited experience backup QB. Rather hang on to ball.

[red]

so a lot of young favre out there today.

he was throwing the ball all over the field, to whoever was in that area at that time. good or bad

difference is favre threw a lot of TD's to go with all his wild ass INT's

[Harlan Huckleby]

Seneca Wallace was 5-5 before he got hurt.

But a groin pull on a nothing play sorta screams "old guy"

I don't care if Tolzien or Wallace play. I haven't seen anything to indicate one is more promising than the other for this season.

[woodbuck27]

Tolzien has some tools, I'd stick with him over Wallace no matter what

Definitely. Back him up with some other QB if TT can find one.

[Rutnstrut]

They also need an ENTIRE back up defense, how do they pull off that roster move?

[woodbuck27]

Seneca Wallace was 5-5 before he got hurt.

But a groin pull on a nothing play sorta screams "old guy"

I don't care if Tolzien or Wallace play. I haven't seen anything to indicate one is more promising than the other for this season.

Scott Tolzien just got tossed into the flames and passed for 280 yards in his first NFL game.

[denverYooper]

No, can't do that. I loved his effort today and think he is the new developmental guy.

But you can't heave INTs when your are the limited experience backup QB. Rather hang on to ball.

I'm on board with this. If nothing else, they might have found their next Hasselbeck.

[Teamcheez1]

I think we can beat the Giants with Tolzien, but the real question is whether our defense will allow him the opportunity.

[denverYooper]

I think we can beat the Giants with Tolzien, but the real question is whether our defense will allow him the opportunity.

I agree with this. Can GB limit the number of crazy bombs that Eli can complete? He's not afraid to go after those and the Packers' DBs have gone keystone kops back there several times.

[red]

lets not over goo ourselves over this guy just yet

it was an OK performance, nothing more

24-39 for 280 yards 1 td and 2 INTs (which should have been 4, he threw 2 or 3 balls into hands of defenders that were dropped)

for a QB rating of 70.5

not to mention some of those throws were pretty bad but turned into huge plays by the WR's making some amazing catches

yeah he had a lot of yards, but he threw the ball a ton to get there

[woodbuck27]

lets not over goo ourselves over this guy just yet

it was an OK performance, nothing more

24-39 for 280 yards 1 td and 2 INTs (which should have been 4, he threw 2 or 3 balls into hands of defenders that were dropped)

for a QB rating of 70.5

not to mention some of those throws were pretty bad but turned into huge plays by the WR's making some amazing catches

yeah he had a lot of yards, but he threw the ball a ton to get there

I didn't actually see the game. I had the charted game on NFL.Com.

[deake]

MM just said Scott would be the qb next week. He said, I'm the head coach and that's the direction we are going."

[channtheman]

I have zero faith in our defense at this point.

[denverYooper]

lets not over goo ourselves over this guy just yet

it was an OK performance, nothing more

24-39 for 280 yards 1 td and 2 INTs (which should have been 4, he threw 2 or 3 balls into hands of defenders that were dropped)

for a QB rating of 70.5

not to mention some of those throws were pretty bad but turned into huge plays by the WR's making some amazing catches

yeah he had a lot of yards, but he threw the ball a ton to get there

What else is there to get excited about? Bostick, maybe.

[denverYooper]

Tom Pelissero ‏@TomPelissero 5m

McCarthy on Scott Tolzien: "I thought Scott did a hell of a job. We’re running plays he hasn’t even practiced yet."

[woodbuck27]

MM just said Scott would be the qb next week. He said, I'm the head coach and that's the direction we are going."

That seems logical to me. I week of practice and he just might help us to a 6-4 record.

We have more problems than at 'just' QB.

[Iron Mike]

I agree with this. Can GB limit the number of crazy bombs that Eli can complete? He's not afraid to go after those and the Packers' DBs have gone keystone kops back there every time they line up.

FIFY

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Installing a goddamn furnace in a 2' crawlspace, damn hard to watch game and post. Anyway, I thought Tolzien was ok. He threw some balls he should not have, but his arm and legs are certainly better than Wallace. Another week of practice, and some tutoring by Rogers ought to help him. By far the bigger question is defense. Quite frankly, I'm not sure they could have played worse. Missed tackles (again). I mean, goddamn it how do you get to Pro ball and don't know how to tackle yet??? Horrible coverage, very little pass rush, I mean, on some plays, I thought the Eagle QB could have taken a nap. I was extremely disappointed in defense. Offense was not a whole lot better but king stink went to defense today.

[KYPack]

Killians Irsh Red is mandatory for early games.....appreciate that KY?

Absolutely!

Man, what a game, eh?

We got to pull some serious shit together or this year is down the tubes.

[pbmax]

Tom Pelissero ‏@TomPelissero 5m

McCarthy on Scott Tolzien: "I thought Scott did a hell of a job. We’re running plays he hasn’t even practiced yet."

Well, that could still be the Wisconsin playbook. Barry and Chryst never really got to use the passing half of it anyway.

[pbmax]

Still a bit surprised M3 was that sanguine about the INTs.

Nice to know occasionally I do recognize good play.

[CaptainKickass]

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/24/61/05/5443932/5/628x471.jpg

[digitaldean]

Given the situation, he did OK. Not great, but not T.J. Rubley-wretched either. He has some heat on some of his throws. Yes, he had several passes (the INT in endzone and 2 dropped Eagle INT's). Yes, the WR's had to make plays, but what should we expect? We have a 3rd stringer who was just bumped up from PS taking over from a 2nd stringer who doesn't have the arm strength of Tolzien, who was taking over for the league MVP. There's going to be a dropoff in talent. Right now, who else is REALLY out there?? Vince Young? Graham Harrell?? BJ Coleman??

Google the stats for W-L re: backup QB's. It's absolutely horrible. Cassell taking over for Brady and Warner taking over for in STL are the exceptions, not the rule.

It's the 1st down on the 12 earlier in the game and we go with 3 straight pass plays....WITH A NEW QB??? NOT ONE F'IN RUN?? I put that on MM. Plus we have a D that give Riley freaking Cooper the star treatment and can't tackle for crap. Heyward, Burnett and Williams SUCKED and were burned repeatedly. MD Jennings did a better job of covering Davon House on one play than the receiver.

[woodbuck27]

Given the situation, he did OK. Not great, but not T.J. Rubley-wretched either. He has some heat on some of his throws. Yes, he had several passes (the INT in endzone and 2 dropped Eagle INT's). Yes, the WR's had to make plays, but what should we expect? We have a 3rd stringer who was just bumped up from PS taking over from a 2nd stringer who doesn't have the arm strength of Tolzien, who was taking over for the league MVP. There's going to be a dropoff in talent. Right now, who else is REALLY out there?? Vince Young? Graham Harrell?? BJ Coleman??

Google the stats for W-L re: backup QB's. It's absolutely horrible. Cassell taking over for Brady and Warner taking over for in STL are the exceptions, not the rule.

It's the 1st down on the 12 earlier in the game and we go with 3 straight pass plays....WITH A NEW QB??? NOT ONE F'IN RUN?? I put that on MM. Plus we have a D that give Riley freaking Cooper the star treatment and can't tackle for crap. Heyward, Burnett and Williams SUCKED and were burned repeatedly. MD Jennings did a better job of covering Davon House on one play than the receiver.

" MD Jennings did a better job of covering Davon House on one play than the receiver " digitaldean

a) They just can't stop doing chest bumps.

b) MD Jennings needs eye correction

c) Both wanted to feel what a tackle/contact is like in a game.

[King Friday]

The kid was OK considering the circumstances. He's not an NFL starting caliber QB, but we don't have many options at this point. Flynn, if his arm is at least 50%, will be on the roster Monday evening. Other than that, no one would be worth anything to this team right now because they would be clueless regarding the offense.

I don't have much hope for the next few games...our defense is not elite, and our offense is now no where close to adequate.

[woodbuck27]

The kid was OK considering the circumstances. He's not an NFL starting caliber QB, but we don't have many options at this point. Flynn, if his arm is at least 50%, will be on the roster Monday evening. Other than that, no one would be worth anything to this team right now because they would be clueless regarding the offense.

I don't have much hope for the next few games...our defense is not elite, and our offense is now no where close to adequate.

I can't help feel after today and this past week that it's a sad time now to be a Green Bay Packer fan.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Well, after a semi-good night of sleep, my overall view on our performance has changed significantly. I now believe we are basically fucked...

[Infamous]

BRING BACK VINCE

[Infamous]

Scott played GREAT actually Woodbuck

But whats up with that mayor in Toronto?? SMH!!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Still a bit surprised M3 was that sanguine about the INTs.

Nice to know occasionally I do recognize good play.

The interception in the endzone was not a horrible mistake. We're talking about the throw being a half of a second late, or 4 inches too low. Of course red zone throws come down to tiny windows, and Rodgers would have completed those passes.

I am happy to jump on the Tolzien train, he is a fighter with a good arm, what's not to like? He'll get better.

But I am defensive about Seneca Wallace. Guy has played to the best of his ability, and has played OK. He went 5-5 before he got hurt, and people are acting like he washed out. Again, a groin pull without a hit has a Fred Sandford quality about it. Wallace was not that good at age 28, maybe he should be out of the league at age 33.

[pbmax]

The interception in the endzone was not a horrible mistake. We're talking about the throw being a half of a second late, or 4 inches too low. Of course red zone throws come down to tiny windows, and Rodgers would have completed those passes.

I am happy to jump on the Tolzien train, he is a fighter with a good arm, what's not to like? He'll get better.

But I am defensive about Seneca Wallace. Guy has played to the best of his ability, and has played OK. He went 5-5 before he got hurt, and people are acting like he washed out. Again, a groin pull without a hit has a Fred Sandford quality about it. Wallace was not that good at age 28, maybe he should be out of the league at age 33.

I agree, just required a different kind of throw or an adjusted target (he said he should have aimed more for the pylon).

But he had another INT right into coverage of a WR who wasn't open and two others that were dropped. It was a very good effort but not all buttermilk and biscuits.

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/3502/starter-pack-rodgers-on-tolzien

Starter Pack: Rodgers on Tolzien

November, 13, 2013 ... By Rob Demovsky | ESPN.com

“He’s a perfectionist,” Rodgers said of Tolzien. “I can relate to that."

"... “Back in 2006, we started doing weekly reports,” Rodgers said of his days as a backup.

“I would watch hours and hours and film of write up a report on the entire secondary. Back then it was just Brett and I. I would do the corners and the safeties, and I would give him and the room a report of what I saw, what I think would work. It wasn’t like I was giving Brett anything he would use in the game. I think it was more to get me into a routine of preparation, watching the film I should be watching and looking for the things that I should be looking for, and it really taught me a lot about preparation. ..."

Please click on the LINK for the entire story.

GO PACK GO !

[Zool]

I am happy to jump on the Tolzien train, he is a fighter with a good arm, what's not to like?

Well he's fucked.

[red]

I agree, just required a different kind of throw or an adjusted target (he said he should have aimed more for the pylon).

But he had another INT right into coverage of a WR who wasn't open and two others that were dropped. It was a very good effort but not all buttermilk and biscuits.

i would have liked to see the ball over the other shoulder and more of a lob pass. something that gets up and over the D instead of giving the guy he can make an easy play on

i hate seeing those types of throws where the CB can easily jump the route and has nothing between him and the other endzone

[Bretsky]

You guys know I'm a fantical Badger Homer
There is not much to get excited about with Tolzien
He's like the girl with a great personality

As a QB....smart dude....will study/try hard...bu IMO he just lacks the talent to be a legit NFL starter

He can get you to the red zone, but when you need the arm strength to thread the ball into a needle....it ain't getting there........

[woodbuck27]

You guys know I'm a fantical Badger Homer
There is not much to get excited about with Tolzien
He's like the girl with a great personality

As a QB....smart dude....will study/try hard...bu IMO he just lacks the talent to be a legit NFL starter

He can get you to the red zone, but when you need the arm strength to thread the ball into a needle....it ain't getting there........

You don't endorse him.

[denverYooper]

You guys know I'm a fantical Badger Homer
There is not much to get excited about with Tolzien
He's like the girl with a great personality

As a QB....smart dude....will study/try hard...bu IMO he just lacks the talent to be a legit NFL starter

He can get you to the red zone, but when you need the arm strength to thread the ball into a needle....it ain't getting there........

So he's the one you end up marrying?

[Pugger]

You guys know I'm a fantical Badger Homer
There is not much to get excited about with Tolzien
He's like the girl with a great personality

As a QB....smart dude....will study/try hard...bu IMO he just lacks the talent to be a legit NFL starter

He can get you to the red zone, but when you need the arm strength to thread the ball into a needle....it ain't getting there........

We don't need him to be a starter. We need him to be able to win a couple of games here against not so hot teams until Rodgers returns. I think he has enough moxy and talent to pull it off and be a long term backup for us going forward. He might really benefit from MM's QB school too.

[Fritz]

You guys know I'm a fantical Badger Homer
There is not much to get excited about with Tolzien
He's like the girl with a great personality

As a QB....smart dude....will study/try hard...bu IMO he just lacks the talent to be a legit NFL starter

He can get you to the red zone, but when you need the arm strength to thread the ball into a needle....it ain't getting there........


Bretsky likes hot bad girls with zero personality.

[woodbuck27]

We don't need him to be a starter. We need him to be able to win a couple of games here against not so hot teams until Rodgers returns. I think he has enough moxy and talent to pull it off and be a long term backup for us going forward. He might really benefit from MM's QB school too.

Yes.

[Guiness]

I wonder why Flynn isn't being looked at seriously for this week-end? I know Tolzien showed something last Sunday, but if Flynn is healthy they KNOW he can produce in this offense. Has it changed that much since he left? I think he could possibly be ahead of Tolzien in knowing it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I wonder why Flynn isn't being looked at seriously for this week-end? I know Tolzien showed something last Sunday, but if Flynn is healthy they KNOW he can produce in this offense. Has it changed that much since he left? I think he could possibly be ahead of Tolzien in knowing it.

Tolzien has more talent. Flynn has a little more NFL experience. Much of that track record is not good. They KNOW he did produce for a couple games in 2011.

I can see the argument for Flynn, but Tolzien looked composed last week, and MM thinks he plays like a vet.

[CaptainKickass]

I wonder why Flynn isn't being looked at seriously for this week-end? I know Tolzien showed something last Sunday, but if Flynn is healthy they KNOW he can produce in this offense. Has it changed that much since he left? I think he could possibly be ahead of Tolzien in knowing it.


I was gonna start a thread about this but I'll tell you why, in my opinion.

It's because McCarthy opened his yapper and "declared" Tolzien the starter before Flynn was signed. We know MM is an emotional coach, and he was enthused by Tolzien's performance. We also had zero other quarterbacks on the roster, so at the moment it wasn't like there was any other consideration. He felt very safe making that declaration and he obviously didn't want to be bombarded by the press with QB questions.

Now certainly, MM could backpedal and be all like:

"I know I said Tolzien's the starter, but I think Flynn gives us the best chance to win on Sunday so I'm declaring Flynn the starter"

But we've seen MM be very careful about his words and his decisions that he makes publicly. I'm pretty sure he's never really backpedaled from a declared roster position.

Now - I personally believe that Matt Flynn gives the Green Bay Packers the best chance to win Sunday. But I also believe that this season is in the shitter and that we'll be lucky if Rodgers makes it back at all this season. (remember: Woodson was out for 9 weeks with a broken collarbone). That being said, Tolzien as the starter is just fine by me at this point. If he sucks too bad and stinks the joint up, well Flynn is certainly a great option to have in the proverbial back pocket.

.

[Pugger]

When has Matt Flynn looked better than Tolzien this season? If Matt had been playing well this year in Oakland or Buffalo he wouldn't have been available for us to sign this week. A lot of folks think Matt will magically return to his 2010 form against Detroit to save our season but I have my doubts.

[red]

Tolzien has more talent. Flynn has a little more NFL experience. Much of that track record is not good. They KNOW he did produce for a couple games in 2011.

I can see the argument for Flynn, but Tolzien looked composed last week, and MM thinks he plays like a vet.

who's to say that tolzien didn't show us his best last week? everyone whats to throw flynn in the garbage can because he flamed out on a few teams, but tolzien has been cut from almost as many teams

i so a guy who threw the ball as hand as he could and made some horrible mistakes and got lucky that he only ended up with 2 int's

now i'm not saying flynn is gonna be better then tolzien, but i find it laughable that people are thinking tolzien is half way decent because of the game he had sunday (a below average game for an NFL starter IMO). and those same people think matt flynn is now complete and worthless shit because he couldn't become the starter in seattle or oakland and only lasted a week or two in buffalo, while glossing over the fact that tolzien wasn't able to make the 53 man rosters of the chargers and 49ers

[Smeefers]

You don't start Flynn because this offense is completely different than it was 2 years ago. Personnel has changed drastically. You don't give a guy 2 days of practice and then throw him to the wolves. I've seen that show the last couple weeks. I for one, wouldn't mind seeing a QB play a whole game after he's had a full week to prepare. If Flynn shows amazing skills and blows Tolzien out of the water, then fine, start him. If it's neck and neck though, I'd rather have the guy who's been in our system.

[Guiness]

You don't start Flynn because this offense is completely different than it was 2 years ago. Personnel has changed drastically.

Is it though? That was my question.

Sure, there's a run game now. Personnel - top 2 pass catchers that fateful day vs Detroit were Nelson and Jones...and Kuhn had a couple of catches.

Not saying it would be a good idea. It probably isn't, just wondering how much consideration it was given, and how much it might say about Flynn being 'perfectly healthy'.

[Freak Out]

I agree, just required a different kind of throw or an adjusted target (he said he should have aimed more for the pylon).

But he had another INT right into coverage of a WR who wasn't open and two others that were dropped. It was a very good effort but not all buttermilk and biscuits.

Bah! Not even worth commenting on again.

[Carolina_Packer]

who's to say that tolzien didn't show us his best last week? everyone whats to throw flynn in the garbage can because he flamed out on a few teams, but tolzien has been cut from almost as many teams

i so a guy who threw the ball as hand as he could and made some horrible mistakes and got lucky that he only ended up with 2 int's

now i'm not saying flynn is gonna be better then tolzien, but i find it laughable that people are thinking tolzien is half way decent because of the game he had sunday (a below average game for an NFL starter IMO). and those same people think matt flynn is now complete and worthless shit because he couldn't become the starter in seattle or oakland and only lasted a week or two in buffalo, while glossing over the fact that tolzien wasn't able to make the 53 man rosters of the chargers and 49ers

I hope when Rodgers comes back that they keep all three QB's. Depth is needed there.

Backup QB can be a tricky business. You want someone who is good enough to hold down the fort for a few games, if needed, but not be so good that he's going to eventually leave. I was OK with Green Bay taking a flyer on Graham Harrell back in 2010 because we already had Flynn as a solid backup. Once Flynn left for free agency after 2011, the Packers should have brought in whatever veteran was available at the time as competition to push Harrell and see if he was worth the roster spot. I feel like Harrell kind of received that spot by default after Flynn left because he knew the system and he came cheap. Bringing in B.J. Coleman from the 2012 draft was not adequate competition to push Harrell. In 2012 they could have signed someone like Kyle Orton to be the backup; problem solved, although they are probably never going to pay 2 mill per year for a backup like Dallas did for three years. There were other guys out there too like Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens (former 2nd round pick), Brian Hoyer, who would have all done fine in the backup role. You just have to get your competition in for the entire offseason training program and through camp, not signing them off the street at the start of the season.

If Tolzien works out well, then TT will have acquitted himself for the uncertain situation created by having Harrell and Coleman as the backups in the first place. The Packer brass needed to push themselves harder to know if Harrell (or Coleman in less time) was a suitable backup, or not. They hesitated. You certainly hope your backup is already on the roster and established when you start a season. If Tolzien can establish himself, TT may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. I'm pulling for the kid!

[KYPack]

I hope when Rodgers comes back that they keep all three QB's. Depth is needed there.

Backup QB can be a tricky business. You want someone who is good enough to hold down the fort for a few games, if needed, but not be so good that he's going to eventually leave. I was OK with Green Bay taking a flyer on Graham Harrell back in 2010 because we already had Flynn as a solid backup. Once Flynn left for free agency after 2011, the Packers should have brought in whatever veteran was available at the time as competition to push Harrell and see if he was worth the roster spot, which I feel he kind of received by default after Flynn left because he knew the system and he came cheap. Bringing in B.J. Coleman from the 2012 draft was not adequate competition to push Harrell. In 2012 they could have signed someone like Kyle Orton to be the backup; problem solved, although they are probably never going to pay 2 mill per year for a backup like Dallas did. There were other guys out there too like Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens (former 2nd round pick).

If Tolzien works out well, then TT will have acquitted himself for the uncertain situation created by having Harrell and Coleman as the backups. You certainly hope your backup is already on the roster and established when you start a season. If Tolzien can establish himself, TT may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. Go kid!

+ 1 & repped.

if you can get a vet, he operates as a solid buffer that no QB coach can provide.

We should have got somebody like that when Harrell demonstrated his infamous "handoff from hell" last season.

[Smeefers]

Is it though? That was my question.

Sure, there's a run game now. Personnel - top 2 pass catchers that fateful day vs Detroit were Nelson and Jones...and Kuhn had a couple of catches.

Not saying it would be a good idea. It probably isn't, just wondering how much consideration it was given, and how much it might say about Flynn being 'perfectly healthy'.

I say it is. The addition of Lacy and MM's commitment to the run has drastically altered how even Aaron Rodgers called the game. Flynn wouldn't be stepping back into the same old same old. Jones has still been hampered by his injury and has only been playing 40% of the snaps or so. How much chemistry does Flynn have with quarless, miles white, bostick, lacy, or Boykin? These are all contributors to the offense now.

[woodbuck27]

I hope when Rodgers comes back that they keep all three QB's. Depth is needed there.

Backup QB can be a tricky business. You want someone who is good enough to hold down the fort for a few games, if needed, but not be so good that he's going to eventually leave. I was OK with Green Bay taking a flyer on Graham Harrell back in 2010 because we already had Flynn as a solid backup. Once Flynn left for free agency after 2011, the Packers should have brought in whatever veteran was available at the time as competition to push Harrell and see if he was worth the roster spot. I feel like Harrell kind of received that spot by default after Flynn left because he knew the system and he came cheap. Bringing in B.J. Coleman from the 2012 draft was not adequate competition to push Harrell. In 2012 they could have signed someone like Kyle Orton to be the backup; problem solved, although they are probably never going to pay 2 mill per year for a backup like Dallas did for three years. There were other guys out there too like Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens (former 2nd round pick), Brian Hoyer, who would have all done fine in the backup role. You just have to get your competition in for the entire offseason training program and through camp, not signing them off the street at the start of the season.

If Tolzien works out well, then TT will have acquitted himself for the uncertain situation created by having Harrell and Coleman as the backups in the first place. The Packer brass needed to push themselves harder to know if Harrell (or Coleman in less time) was a suitable backup, or not. They hesitated. You certainly hope your backup is already on the roster and established when you start a season. If Tolzien can establish himself, TT may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. I'm pulling for the kid!

An excellent post.

[Pugger]

I hope when Rodgers comes back that they keep all three QB's. Depth is needed there.

Backup QB can be a tricky business. You want someone who is good enough to hold down the fort for a few games, if needed, but not be so good that he's going to eventually leave. I was OK with Green Bay taking a flyer on Graham Harrell back in 2010 because we already had Flynn as a solid backup. Once Flynn left for free agency after 2011, the Packers should have brought in whatever veteran was available at the time as competition to push Harrell and see if he was worth the roster spot. I feel like Harrell kind of received that spot by default after Flynn left because he knew the system and he came cheap. Bringing in B.J. Coleman from the 2012 draft was not adequate competition to push Harrell. In 2012 they could have signed someone like Kyle Orton to be the backup; problem solved, although they are probably never going to pay 2 mill per year for a backup like Dallas did for three years. There were other guys out there too like Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens (former 2nd round pick), Brian Hoyer, who would have all done fine in the backup role. You just have to get your competition in for the entire offseason training program and through camp, not signing them off the street at the start of the season.

If Tolzien works out well, then TT will have acquitted himself for the uncertain situation created by having Harrell and Coleman as the backups in the first place. The Packer brass needed to push themselves harder to know if Harrell (or Coleman in less time) was a suitable backup, or not. They hesitated. You certainly hope your backup is already on the roster and established when you start a season. If Tolzien can establish himself, TT may have pulled a rabbit out of the hat. I'm pulling for the kid!

If Tolzien is as good as I think he could be as our long term backup for Rodgers TT and MM will be fortunate indeed. I blame both of them - and especially MM - sticking with Harrell as long as we did. :-? Because they thought Harrell (and/or Coleman) would develop into a viable NFL QB we were in a real bind when it became obvious neither of them could/did.

[pbmax]

+ 1 & repped.

if you can get a vet, he operates as a solid buffer that no QB coach can provide.

We should have got somebody like that when Harrell demonstrated his infamous "handoff from hell" last season.

The problem is that if the developmental guy shows enough (Flynn, Hasselback) he is going to get poached if he isn't on the regular roster.

It would mean a tight fit somewhere if they keep 3 QBs on the 53. If Tolzien was still on the PS, then three QBs is a no-brainer.

Even if eligible, no way does Tolzien survive a waiver back to the PS without an offer from somewhere.

[pbmax]

I say it is. The addition of Lacy and MM's commitment to the run has drastically altered how even Aaron Rodgers called the game. Flynn wouldn't be stepping back into the same old same old. Jones has still been hampered by his injury and has only been playing 40% of the snaps or so. How much chemistry does Flynn have with quarless, miles white, bostick, lacy, or Boykin? These are all contributors to the offense now.

Yes, the Packers have said the pass game is not much different but the run calls are quite different. It was changed in the off-season when M3 was looking to start Harris and its kept changing with Lacy.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-1/The-brighter-the-lights-the-harder-Scott-Tolzien-works/ef824660-4e1a-4a36-b8ad-1575f6ea5ffa?campaign=email_november2013_131115The brighter the lights, the harder Scott Tolzien works

Posted Nov 13, 2013

BY Mike Spofford


GREEN BAY—" Every time Mike McCarthy has discussed Scott Tolzien since the former University of Wisconsin quarterback arrived in Green Bay, the head coach’s compliments have always included the words “work ethic.”

As Tolzien gets ready for his first NFL start this week, his own words on Wednesday illustrate that McCarthy hasn’t been paying him simple lip service or coachspeak. "

Please CLICK on the LINK for the entire story.

GO PACK GO !

[Patler]

Matt Flynn could be the long term answer as a backup, for several reasons:

Tolzien will still be looking for a shot at being a starter. He will not be content to hang out behind Rodgers indefinitely.

Flynn had a shot, and it didn't go real well. But, he has made good money the last couple years, enough to set himself up for life. A permanent gig as backup to Rodgers at close to a million per year for as long as he can milk it, with the fun, notoriety and rewards that come from being a playoff contender each year might sound pretty good to him when the alternative might be nothing more than a minimum salary somewhere else.

Doug Pederson left for a 2 year shot at starting in Philadelphia and then Cleveland before realizing that coming back to GB for a vet minimum salary is still a pretty good deal if you can secure it for a solid block of years.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Another reason Flynn could be a long-term backup here: He's done poorly everyplace else he's gone. As Patler said, there's a lot worse places to go than GB and be the backup.

I agree with others that Rodgers injury means we now have 3 QBs on the roster going forward. TT and MM gambled on ARods health and got burned. I also wouldn't be surprised if either Flynn or Tolzien (assuming both are around next year) got more practice time with the 1s during the season just to be sure they have a better foundation to come into a game.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was impressed with Ryan Fitzpatrick's play as a backup for Tennessee last night.

There are some backups around the league with talent.

I don't see Tolzien as being a franchise QB, he'll be a journeyman. Just staying in the league as a #2 would be an accomplishment.

There are probably about 20 franchise QBs total around the league. The rest of the starters are journeyman that teams are dreaming of replacing.

[red]

I was impressed with Ryan Fitzpatrick's play as a backup for Tennessee last night.

There are some backups around the league with talent.

I don't see Tolzien as being a franchise QB, he'll be a journeyman. Just staying in the league as a #2 would be an accomplishment.

There are probably about 20 franchise QBs total around the league. The rest of the starters are journeyman that teams are dreaming of replacing.

before he won the #2 and then #1 job for us by default, he was having a hard time making it in the nfl as a #3

[Guiness]

I was impressed with Ryan Fitzpatrick's play as a backup for Tennessee last night.

There are some backups around the league with talent.

I don't see Tolzien as being a franchise QB, he'll be a journeyman. Just staying in the league as a #2 would be an accomplishment.

There are probably about 20 franchise QBs total around the league. The rest of the starters are journeyman that teams are dreaming of replacing.

I think 20's a reach for the number of franchise QBs. I can think of a dozen teams off the top of my head that don't have one. I'm counting any team who's starting a rookie as 'not having a franchise QB'.

Fitz is a decent QB. He got a bum steer in Buffalo, if you can call being given too much money a bad thing. But that's what happened, they paid him too much, and expected too much from him *cough* Flacco *cough*.

Just looked up his stats, he completed 60% of his passes for 3400 yards, 24TD 16INT. Not pro bowl material, but not a guy you run out of town when you have no one else either. He was decent, and they should've held on to him, since they'd already paid him the money.

[woodbuck27]

Another reason Flynn could be a long-term backup here: He's done poorly everyplace else he's gone. As Patler said, there's a lot worse places to go than GB and be the backup.

I agree with others that Rodgers injury means we now have 3 QBs on the roster going forward. TT and MM gambled on ARods health and got burned. I also wouldn't be surprised if either Flynn or Tolzien (assuming both are around next year) got more practice time with the 1s during the season just to be sure they have a better foundation to come into a game.

Studying his NFL Stat's indicates to me that he's not all that bad. I'm glad he's back.

PACKERS !

[Pugger]

The problem is that if the developmental guy shows enough (Flynn, Hasselback) he is going to get poached if he isn't on the regular roster.

It would mean a tight fit somewhere if they keep 3 QBs on the 53. If Tolzien was still on the PS, then three QBs is a no-brainer.

Even if eligible, no way does Tolzien survive a waiver back to the PS without an offer from somewhere.

Even before Rodgers' injury we upped Tolzien's salary to keep him around while he was still on the PS.

[Pugger]

Matt Flynn could be the long term answer as a backup, for several reasons:

Tolzien will still be looking for a shot at being a starter. He will not be content to hang out behind Rodgers indefinitely.

Flynn had a shot, and it didn't go real well. But, he has made good money the last couple years, enough to set himself up for life. A permanent gig as backup to Rodgers at close to a million per year for as long as he can milk it, with the fun, notoriety and rewards that come from being a playoff contender each year might sound pretty good to him when the alternative might be nothing more than a minimum salary somewhere else.

Doug Pederson left for a 2 year shot at starting in Philadelphia and then Cleveland before realizing that coming back to GB for a vet minimum salary is still a pretty good deal if you can secure it for a solid block of years.

We will know in a couple of weeks how much MM and company want Flynn as Rodgers' backup going forward. Once Rodgers is cleared to play either Tolzien or Flynn will be cut from the active roster. I don't know if we have the luxury of keeping 3 QBs. It could very well be Flynn who gets his walking papers. Flynn was cut from Buffalo the day after Rodgers got hurt but we didn't bring him in until we lost Wallace to IR. Instead we brought Tolzien up from the PS. We shall see.

[Joemailman]

In 2010, after Rodgers returned from his concussion, the Packers uncharacteristically kept 3 QB's on the roster for the rest of the season. I expect they'll do the same thing here. Partly for insurance, but also to help evaluate who they want to sign as their backup for 2014. Assuming those guys want to sign.

[Pugger]

In 2010, after Rodgers returned from his concussion, the Packers uncharacteristically kept 3 QB's on the roster for the rest of the season. I expect they'll do the same thing here. Partly for insurance, but also to help evaluate who they want to sign as their backup for 2014. Assuming those guys want to sign.

But if we want to bring Cobb back on the active roster somebody has to go to make room for him (or Worthy and/or Richardson) down the line.

[Joemailman]

But if we want to bring Cobb back on the active roster somebody has to go to make room for him (or Worthy and/or Richardson) down the line.

They currently have 5 WR's on the roster. One will be cut when Cobb comes back. If they activate Richardson (a big if), they'll probably cut a DB, either Nixon or Banjo. If they activate Worthy, they'll probably cut someone. They currently have 7 DL not including Neal.

[denverYooper]

They currently have 5 WR's on the roster. One will be cut when Cobb comes back. If they activate Richardson (a big if), they'll probably cut a DB, either Nixon or Banjo. If they activate Worthy, they'll probably cut someone. They currently have 7 DL not including Neal.

My guess is that they'd IR Hayward to activate Richardson.

[pbmax]

I think Rob Johnson still has some hurt feelings about the NFL, but he is convinced Tolzien can play in it. The article does mention his arm slot being a bit low. Interceptions aside, three batted balls didn't help last week.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/scott-tolzien-knows-packers-future-rests-on-his-performance-b99143274z1-232152801.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think 20's a reach for the number of franchise QBs. I can think of a dozen teams off the top of my head that don't have one. I'm counting any team who's starting a rookie as 'not having a franchise QB'.

Time for my Senator Joe McCarthy imitation. I have in my hand a list:

Arizona Cardinals Carson Palmer
Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco
Buffalo Bills - Thad Lewis
Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton
Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler
Cincinnati Bengals - Andy Dalton
Cleveland Browns - Jason Campbell
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo
Denver Broncos - Peyton Manning
Detroit Lions - Matthew Stafford
Green Bay Packers - Scott Tolzien (Aaron Rodgers)
Houston Texans - Case Keenum
Indianapolis Colts - Andrew Luck
Dolphins - Chad Henne
Kansas City Chiefs - Alex Smith
Miami Dolphins - Ryan Tannehill
Minnesota Vikings - Christian Ponder
New England Pats - Tom Brady
NO Saints - Drew Brees
New York Giants - Eli Manning
New York Jets - Geno Smith
Oakland Raiders - Terrelle Pryor
Phil Eagles - Nick Foles (Michael Vick)
Pitts Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger
SD Chargers - Philip Rivers
SF 49ers - Colin Kaepernick
Seattle Seahawks - Russell Wilson
St. Louis Rams - Kellen Clemens (Sam Bradford)
Tampa Bay Bucs - Mike Glennon
Tennessee Titans - Jake Locker
Washington Skins - Robert Griffin III

Thank you Wikipedia.

I'm gonna count Geno Smith, Andy Dalton as franchise QBs.
I don't know about Jake Locker, Michael Vick, Thad Lewis, Case Keenum, Mike Glennon

The guys that need to be replaced:
Terrelle Pryor, Christian Ponder, Chad Henne, Jason Campbell

So by my lights, there are at least 23 "Franchise QBs" in the league. Maybe I am a little soft in the heart or head.

[pbmax]

I would question Geno Smith, Nick Foles, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Bradford/Clemens.

But I think by the end of the post you realized you needed to concede.

[Joemailman]

I count 21

Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco
Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton
Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler
Cincinnati Bengals - Andy Dalton
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo
Denver Broncos - Peyton Manning
Detroit Lions - Matthew Stafford
Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers
Indianapolis Colts - Andrew Luck
Kansas City Chiefs - Alex Smith
Miami Dolphins - Ryan Tannehill
New England Pats - Tom Brady
NO Saints - Drew Brees
New York Giants - Eli Manning
Phil Eagles - Nick Foles (Michael Vick)
Pitts Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger
SD Chargers - Philip Rivers
SF 49ers - Colin Kaepernick
Seattle Seahawks - Russell Wilson
Washington Skins - Robert Griffin III

[Guiness]

Time for my Senator Joe McCarthy imitation. I have in my hand a list:

Thank you Wikipedia.

I'm gonna count Geno Smith, Andy Dalton as franchise QBs.
I don't know about Jake Locker, Michael Vick, Thad Lewis, Case Keenum, Mike Glennon

The guys that need to be replaced:
Terrelle Pryor, Christian Ponder, Chad Henne, Jason Campbell

So by my lights, there are at least 23 "Franchise QBs" in the league. Maybe I am a little soft in the heart or head.

And a shitty list it is. Bad as they are, Jacksonville remains in the NFL:-?

Soft headed or soft hearted. If you are counting Carson Palmer, Alex Smith as franchise passers you are setting the bar low. Tannehill might be who Miami's pining their hopes on now, but to put him on that level is a reach. Kaepernick? Well, outside what he did to the Pack week 1, the shine has come off of him. And don't even get me started on Flacco.:soap:

[CaptainKickass]

Speaking of Scott Motherfucking Tolzien -




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YszFlEN6njo



That's just a little something for those readers who are either not fucking smart enough or too fucking lazy to find it themselves. Consider it a gift.

And don't say Kickass never did anything for you.

:thank:

[Bossman641]

I count 21

Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco
Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton
Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler
Cincinnati Bengals - Andy Dalton
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo
Denver Broncos - Peyton Manning
Detroit Lions - Matthew Stafford
Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers
Indianapolis Colts - Andrew Luck
Kansas City Chiefs - Alex Smith
Miami Dolphins - Ryan Tannehill
New England Pats - Tom Brady
NO Saints - Drew Brees
New York Giants - Eli Manning
Phil Eagles - Nick Foles (Michael Vick)
Pitts Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger
SD Chargers - Philip Rivers
SF 49ers - Colin Kaepernick
Seattle Seahawks - Russell Wilson
Washington Skins - Robert Griffin III

When I think franchise I think guys you aren't looking to replace. I don't see that in dalton, Smith, tannehill, foles. I have a hard time categorizing rivers and big ben as franchise as well at this point

[Pugger]

Rivers is having a decent season this year. Big Ben is not but Pitt has issues up and down their roster.

[pbmax]

Boy was he a sidearmer.

[Guiness]

Boy was he a sidearmer.

Lotta throws back across the body to the left as well. His form reminds me of the "inverted W" or gull motion some MLB pitchers use.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I would question Geno Smith, Nick Foles, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Bradford/Clemens.

But I think by the end of the post you realized you needed to concede.

Nick Foles is just a stand-in for Vick. But I put Vick on my death-watch list anyway.

No, I'm standing by 23. I think those guys, including Geno Smith, are viewed as longterm solutions by their club. I don't watch enough football to be too sure about this stuff.

[Harlan Huckleby]

When I think franchise I think guys you aren't looking to replace. I don't see that in dalton, Smith, tannehill, foles. I have a hard time categorizing rivers and big ben as franchise as well at this point

Foles and Tolzien are not on the list, Vick and Rodgers are. Guess I should have been clearer for the slow students. Sorry, not slow, just different.

You don't think Dalton & Tannehill are franchise QBs!? Well, OK, I just think those teams are planning on them holding the job.

Ya, I guess Big Ben is past his sell-by date.

[Guiness]

Foles and Tolzien are not on the list, Vick and Rodgers are. Guess I should have been clearer for the slow students. Sorry, not slow, just different.

You don't think Dalton & Tannehill are franchise QBs!? Well, OK, I just think those teams are planning on them holding the job.

Ya, I guess Big Ben is past his sell-by date.

I'll give you 'planning on them' but that's a long way from the team being committed to going with them.

And what's your excuse for Carson Palmer? If he's a franchise QB...well, I guess you have to consider the franchise.

[Harlan Huckleby]

YA, guess you're right. Palmer had stellar years in 2005 and 2006 and has been journeyman quality otherwise.

Maybe the NFL should downsize to about 8 teams so it easier to keep track of all the players.

[KYPack]

Cool post Harlen, but I know your heart ain't in it.

Yer first post had a QB for the Dolphins and another one for the Miami Dolphins.

Weeding that shit out is more work than you like to do.

[Guiness]

Cool post Harlen, but I know your heart ain't in it.

Yer first post had a QB for the Dolphins and another one for the Miami Dolphins.

Weeding that shit out is more work than you like to do.

I cut him some slack on that. He didn't list Jacksonville, which is fair enough. They're been transferred to NFL Europe now, haven't they? Kinda like getting kicked out of Div I soccer.

My favorite part of his argument is listing Cutler as a franchise qb.

[Joemailman]

My favorite part of his argument is listing Cutler as a franchise qb.

It doesn't take much to be a franchise QB for that franchise.

[Freak Out]

This is some LOL shit.

So is Schaub hurt or just benched?

[Guiness]

This is some LOL shit.

So is Schaub hurt or just benched?

Looks like his major injury at this point is pine splinters.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My favorite part of his argument is listing Cutler as a franchise qb.


Good lord. Anybody who doesn't count Cutler as a franchise QB listens to too much sports gossip. Guy may have droopy face, but he's a quality starter.

When in doubt, follow the money.

[red]

Good lord. Anybody who doesn't count Cutler as a franchise QB listens to too much sports gossip. Guy may have droopy face, but he's a quality starter.

he's the closest that team has had to a franchise QB in, well, forever

and now that they have one, they want to run him out of town

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yer first post had a QB for the Dolphins and another one for the Miami Dolphins.

ahh, dolphins, jaguars - they're both mammals, easily confused.

[KYPack]

ahh, dolphins, jaguars - they're both mammals, easily confused.

Fair enough.

Now take Henne out and shoot him.

He's just a mammal.

[red]

wrong thread

[red]

this one too

[red]

can we put a stop to this stupis bullshit yet?

guy has 1 td and 4 int's (should have been 7) in two games

guy is not good. he can throw hard and far, but thats about it folks

bring on flynn for next week/ at least we know he belongs in the NFL, even if it is only as a backup

[red]

sorry, 1 td, and 5 int's (should have been 8) in too games

and the game isn't over yet, he could still squeeze a couple int's in there

[Iron Mike]

Throwing late, across the middle. Where have we seen THAT before?


Lord Favre, v. II. :(

[woodbuck27]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1854420-winners-and-losers-for-week-11-of-the-nfl

Why was Scott Tolzien named as a LOSER for week 11?

One name Jason Pierre Paul and a gift pick.

Get that QB some eye correction.

[Pugger]

can we put a stop to this stupis bullshit yet?

guy has 1 td and 4 int's (should have been 7) in two games

guy is not good. he can throw hard and far, but thats about it folks

bring on flynn for next week/ at least we know he belongs in the NFL, even if it is only as a backup

If Flynn is so wonderful why couldn't he secure the backup job in Freaking Oakland or Buffalo?

[red]

If Flynn is so wonderful why couldn't he secure the backup job in Freaking Oakland or Buffalo?

if tolzien was so wonderful why wasn't he able to secure the #3 position in san diego and san fran?

and why have we lost the last two games with him at the helm? he's a turnover machine right now

if flynn the short term answer? who knows. i do know that the team had no intention of him being on the real roster this year and that we have no lost two games with him at QB to two very bad teams with horrible defenses. and he has 5 int's in those two games to only 1 td

he might be a player down the road, but we need a win right now, and i don't see him bringing us one

[Pugger]

If Flynn was better than Tolzien McCarthy would have him start next week instead. This MN is a must win game too.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Fightin Bob McGinn weighs in:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-giants-b99145085z1-232450101.html

There is much to like about Tolzien. Making his first start, in the Big Apple no less, he wasn't the least bit awed by the moment. Receivers drop passes, he never changed expression. Smashed to the turf on several of his five knockdowns, he bounced up as if nothing happened. Facing a deficit in all but the first series, he stayed with the plan and seemed oblivious to the long odds. Unable to get decent yardage on first-down runs all day, he just kept firing away against a veteran defense that knew he had to throw. His 40-yard dash (4.94) and vertical jump (29½) certainly weren't impressive three years ago, but he stepped around in the pocket and challenged defenders to tackle him on two late scrambles with both hands wrapped around the ball. McCarthy seemed stunned how far and how accurate his half-dozen deep balls were. Beason and Pierre-Paul made great plays on two of his three interceptions. On the third, a hurried overthrow into the middle of the field, Tolzien showed he was human. To those calling for Matt Flynn, I can only say that Tolzien's two appearances were better than Flynn's start Sept. 29 for Oakland against Washington.

[woodbuck27]

This is some LOL shit.

So is Schaub hurt or just benched?

Matt Schaub replacing Kase Keenum at the start of the 4th Qtr. turned in a 12/25 155 Yard 0 TD 0 Pick ahhh...... performance.

He's very popular with his teammates.

Watch: Houston Texans quarterback Matt Schaub and wide receiver Andre Johnson have a heated sideline:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111703/2013/REG11/raiders@texans#menu=highlights

Andre Johnson on staying a Texan: 'I'm under contract'

By Kevin Patra ... Around the League writer ... Published: Nov. 18, 2013 at 08:27 a.m

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000284008/article/andre-johnson-on-staying-a-texan-im-under-contract


" Andre Johnson dismissed his heated, late-game argument with Matt Schaub after the Houston Texans lost 28-23 to the Oakland Raiders on Sunday.

At 2-8, the Texans' season is forked, and a coaching change likely is on the horizon. Johnson was asked if he'd want to stick around Houston for a rebuild.

"I'm under contract, so I have to play my contract out," Johnson said, per ESPN.com. "I can't do anything about that."

Johnson is signed through 2016. "

[woodbuck27]

Time for my Senator Joe McCarthy imitation. I have in my hand a list:

Arizona Cardinals Carson Palmer
Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco
Buffalo Bills - Thad Lewis
Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton
Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler
Cincinnati Bengals - Andy Dalton
Cleveland Browns - Jason Campbell
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo
Denver Broncos - Peyton Manning
Detroit Lions - Matthew Stafford
Green Bay Packers - Scott Tolzien (Aaron Rodgers)
Houston Texans - Case Keenum
Indianapolis Colts - Andrew Luck
Dolphins - Chad Henne
Kansas City Chiefs - Alex Smith
Miami Dolphins - Ryan Tannehill
Minnesota Vikings - Christian Ponder
New England Pats - Tom Brady
NO Saints - Drew Brees
New York Giants - Eli Manning
New York Jets - Geno Smith
Oakland Raiders - Terrelle Pryor
Phil Eagles - Nick Foles (Michael Vick)
Pitts Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger
SD Chargers - Philip Rivers
SF 49ers - Colin Kaepernick
Seattle Seahawks - Russell Wilson
St. Louis Rams - Kellen Clemens (Sam Bradford)
Tampa Bay Bucs - Mike Glennon
Tennessee Titans - Jake Locker
Washington Skins - Robert Griffin III

Thank you Wikipedia.

I'm gonna count Geno Smith, Andy Dalton as franchise QBs.
I don't know about Jake Locker, Michael Vick, Thad Lewis, Case Keenum, Mike Glennon

The guys that need to be replaced:
Terrelle Pryor, Christian Ponder, Chad Henne, Jason Campbell

So by my lights, there are at least 23 "Franchise QBs" in the league. Maybe I am a little soft in the heart or head.

Maybe we need to come up with our own definition of the term Franchise Quarterback?

Here are some of my observations this season:

Chicago Bears - Jay Cutler is struggling to stay healthy and prove he's the man of the Bear's future. That's by some speculation up in the air.

The Dolphins Ryan Tannehill is ** still learning to be a QB but seems to have a solid grip today in Miami. ** He had his first start as a College QB in the 2010 season for the Texas A&M Aggies. He started all 13 games in 2011 for Texas A&M. He was drafted in 2012 by Miami in Rd. 1 Pick #8.

Tannehill's Career NFL statistics as of Week 9, 2013:

Pass attempts 773 - Pass completions 457 - Percentage 59.1 - TD–INT 23-22 - Passing yards 5,271- QB Rating 77.8

Who's the QB in Houston? Who's anything in Houston? There's a lot of illness in the Texans camp. Look for big changes in that franchise and soon.

The Tennessee Titans and Jake Locker? The concern there is Lockers ability to stay healthy as he's gone down often for too many games missed.

In the welcome to the same club grouping:

Give it time to be seen applies to the New York Jets - Geno Smith; Oakland Raiders - Terrelle Pryor; and Tampa Bay Bucs - Mike Glennon. The No. 1 QB for the Buffalo Bills is E.J. Manuel. He came off an injury this past week Vs the NY Jets and led the Bills over the jets 37-14 with a fine 20 for 28 and 245 yard - 2 TD's - 0 Pick performance. It seems to me that the Bills have high hopes for E.J. Manuel. How he pans out will be left to be seen.

The Arizona Cardinals Carson Palmer and Cleveland Browns Jason Campbell. Send them both the same card. You identify that card.

It's anybody's guess what's going on in Pittsburg and Ben Rothlesberger. He's receiving memo's on his work ethic and the rumors are flying that he may be traded. I'd send the same card to him as I would Colin Kaepernick in San Fran.
" Make up our mind about you. "

Andy Reed very much wanted Alex Smith and that's working out well in Kansas City.

Michael Vick will be looking for work soon. Nick Foles is proving to be more than decent and should be the guy in Philadelphia.

Andy Dalton seems secure in Cincy.

Solid or Franchise QB's as of today:

Atlanta Falcons - Matt Ryan
Baltimore Ravens - Joe Flacco
Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton
Dallas Cowboys - Tony Romo
Denver Broncos - Peyton Manning
Detroit Lions - Matthew Stafford
Green Bay Packers - Aaron Rodgers
Indianapolis Colts - Andrew Luck
New England Pats - Tom Brady
NO Saints - Drew Brees
New York Giants - Eli Manning
SD Chargers - Philip Rivers
Seattle Seahawks - Russell Wilson
Washington Skins - Robert Griffin III

I count 14 QB's that might be considered legitimately solid or even labeled as Franchise QB's.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

"There is much to like about Tolzien."

Not sure I like Tolzien yet, but I think he brings the best chance to win this sunday. We also should see if he has a future, for after two games, I would expect to see improvement, learning from his mistakes, and feeling more comfortable at the position.

[woodbuck27]

"There is much to like about Tolzien."

Not sure I like Tolzien yet, but I think he brings the best chance to win this sunday. We also should see if he has a future, for after two games, I would expect to see improvement, learning from his mistakes, and feeling more comfortable at the position.

We can debate this to the cows return to the barn but MM >>> Scott Tolzien Vs Minny.

That's the end of the story.

[Packers4Glory]

if tolzien was so wonderful why wasn't he able to secure the #3 position in san diego and san fran?

and why have we lost the last two games with him at the helm? he's a turnover machine right now



yes because the defense has been so good. its all Tolziens fault. You must be one of those guys who blame and credit the QB for everything.

[red]

yes because the defense has been so good. its all Tolziens fault. You must be one of those guys who blame and credit the QB for everything.

# of int's thrown in 2 games by tolzien = 5
# of int's thrown in previous 7 games by a-rod= 4
# of int's thrown all of last season by a-rod= 8
# of int's thrown in 2011 by a-rod= 6

you can't turn the ball over, not on this team. the defense isn't anywhere close to being good enough to win after losing the turnover battle

tolzien has made a lot of real nice throws, but he's thrown some really bad int's

[KYPack]

# of int's thrown in 2 games by tolzien = 5
# of int's thrown in previous 8 games by a-rod= 4
# of int's thrown all of last season by a-rod= 8
# of int's thrown in 2011 by a-rod= 6

you can't turn the ball over, not on this team. the defense isn't anywhere close to being good enough to win after losing the turnover battle

tolzien has made a lot of real nice throws, but he's thrown some really bad int's

He's got to work on his short throws. He gets it out quick, but put a read on it and throw the sucker higher. Some of his slip screens only get about 6' off the ground. The one to JPP was awrful!

[woodbuck27]

# of int's thrown in 2 games by tolzien = 5
# of int's thrown in previous 8 games by a-rod= 4
# of int's thrown all of last season by a-rod= 8
# of int's thrown in 2011 by a-rod= 6

you can't turn the ball over, not on this team. the defense isn't anywhere close to being good enough to win after losing the turnover battle

tolzien has made a lot of real nice throws, but he's thrown some really bad int's

Your argument is strong red but MM has to stand the course and not waffle now.

MM has the option to replace Scott Tolzien with Matt Flynn Vs Minny if it starts to get out of hand.

Set the Packer defense issues aside.

If things don't get straightened out on the Packer OL in this game it will be difficult for the team to scrape out a win.

Flat out it seems to me that this team as it stands now has too many issues to iron out and secure a playoff berth this season.

GO PACK GO !

[Zool]

He's got to work on his short throws. He gets it out quick, but put a read on it and throw the sucker higher. Some of his slip screens only get about 6' off the ground. The one to JPP was awrful!

He's not great at progressions yet. He's 1 read then check down right now but maybe that's what McCarthy has him doing? Keeping the O simple enough for him.

He really needs to start looking some people off. Being an old Badger, I was pulling for him but I'm starting to know what Viking fans have been bitching about for so long.

[pbmax]

Another was when tight end Brandon Myers was open on an 8-yard pass on third and 5 from the 11-yard line. Safety M.D. Jennings didn't diagnose the play quickly enough and was late coming up to cover Myers.

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-knows-injury-risks-b99145083z1-232449291.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz2l6chEBex
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Hyde, I can excuse. What is the deal with veterans not knowing how to react to routes? Is this the first time they have seen switch routes? Given that they have verbal and hand signals to communicate how to handle the situation, it seems unlikely.

[denverYooper]

Hyde, I can excuse. What is the deal with veterans not knowing how to react to routes? Is this the first time they have seen switch routes? Given that they have verbal and hand signals to communicate how to handle the situation, it seems unlikely.

I can't remember who, but someone tweeted this morning that the Packers will probably see a lot of switch routes over the next few...

[run pMc]

Bob McGinn: "To those calling for Matt Flynn, I can only say that Tolzien's two appearances were better than Flynn's start Sept. 29 for Oakland against Washington."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-giants-b99145085z1-232450101.html

[pbmax]

I can't remember who, but someone tweeted this morning that the Packers will probably see a lot of switch routes over the next few...

They had trouble with bunch formations in 2009. Its just terrible.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tolzien doesn't quite have his timing down, which shows up more on short passes. He will get better week to week.

This sounds uncoachlike, but I think the Packers will have to overcome an occasional interception by Tolzien. I think it would be worse to try and dial-back Tolzien and make him a "game manager." I think the Packers have to let Tolzien play aggressive.

Aaron Rodgers had the same problem in his early real game experience.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/ask-vic/article-1/Scott-Tolzien-is-tough-and-he-belongs-in-the-league/09da87d1-2278-4eb8-aedf-3caf713c042d

Clem from Presque Isle, WI

The thing I think the Packers miss most without Rodgers is his brain. Tolzien seems to have a good arm, though I’m bothered by his tendency to sidearm the ball, resulting in a lower trajectory, but what the Packers can’t replace is Rodgers’ ability to read defenses and change the play at the line. Am I wrong?

" The Packers miss that and a whole lot more. Name one team in the league with a franchise quarterback that wouldn’t experience a significant decrease in efficiency if it was without that quarterback. What we must remember is that Scott Tolzien wasn’t Aaron Rodgers’ backup; Tolzien was Seneca Wallace’s backup. Tolzien is playing at an incredibly high level of efficiency. You expect a quarterback promoted from the practice squad to throw interceptions, and Tolzien has, but what you worry most about is that he might be overmatched, and Tolzien isn’t. The game is not too big for him. He belongs in the league and he’s going to get better and better as he gains experience and development. "

GO PACK GO !

[CaptainKickass]

Bob McGinn: "To those calling for Matt Flynn, I can only say that Tolzien's two appearances were better than Flynn's start Sept. 29 for Oakland against Washington."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-giants-b99145085z1-232450101.html


I can't believe you call yourself a "journalist", Bob.

Matt Flynn's last single game as a Packer was at least six times more productive than the last two Tolzien games.

See Bob? It's easy to cherry pick stats and speak with circular arguments to give the illusion of logic. You're still feeling guilty about the "win without Rodgers" article, aren't you?

As you well should.

Again, Matt Flynn gives the Packers the best chance to win on Sunday. Perhaps he's not being played because the Packers know that Rodgers will not be cleared in time for a stretch run. After all - the last star Packer who broke his collarbone was out for 9 (nine) - yes i say it again - nine weeks.

Or -

Perhaps Bob McAsshole - you sort of ripped a hole in the football space-time continuum by penning your retarded but now infamous article contemplating Rodgers demise. They do say the pen is mightier than the sword.

Perhaps Bob, you fucking asshole, you should pen an article about how the season is completely lost and there's no way the Packers win another game this year. Even if you don't believe it - you need to publish that shit anyway. It may be the only way to save this season from the paradox that you are at least participating in, if not the creator of.

It won't change you from being an asshole, but it may save you from being called one so frequently.


Kind regards,


~The Captain



:butt:

[Upnorth]

Leaving shortly with the wife and and friends to play in Regina again for grey cup fever (this is getting expensive) but the capt'n has given me one last thought to convey whilst sober, fuck you mcginn you horrible excuse for a journalist. Looking back not only is he responsible for arod's collarbone but I also now believe he was responsible for the start of Favres playoff interception ways as well. He is packer enemy number one! With out him capers d would not have regressed and Slocum would have been one of the tgreatest special teams coaches.
If anyone is wondering yes yes I have been drinking. Go Riders Go!!!

[woodbuck27]

http://guardianlv.com/2013/11/dont-give-up-on-green-bay-packers-yet/

Not a lot here to sink your teeth into but this is interesting RE: Scott Tolzien:

Through his first two appearances the former Wisconsin Badger may not have a desirable touchdown to interception ratio (1-5) or a win, but he does have ** more yards ** in those games than any Packer quarterback has in his first two games in history. That list includes Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

** I'm not going to check that out and will leave that to Patler.

I'm impressed that Scott Tolzien has thrown for an average exceeding 300 yards /game. The Packer receivers have certainly supported Scott Tolzien as we've seen several outstanding receptions in the last two games. The receivers have been stretching it out to make great catch's.

** In two games Tolzien has thrown for a total of 280 + 339 = 619 yards.

A lot of the credit there has to go to the receivers.

Today he adds pass and TD to the storyline as he leads our teams offense in a Green Bay Packer win. Today his average of 2.5 picks /game drops. The first thing the Packers offense needs for a win today is a productive Scott Tolzien.

GO PACKERS !