Studs & Duds Eagle game

[KYPack]

(Run, I'm not jumping your turf, but it's the last day to discuss this topic)

Well, I didn't wanna look at this thread either, but here goes.

STUDS

Boykin It's been discussed on the forum, but this kid really shines. He's smooth, knows the whole route tree, and plays with great rhythm. Good hands and is mentally tough. I thought we were hosed when we had to go with him, but actually we've got another smart skilled WR now.

Datone Jones. Kid made a quantum leap. Showed more moves than he has all year and nailed a couple sacks. I figured he was a couple years away, but he has skills.

The groin muscle of Seneca Wallace. The muscle saved us from 4-6 games of dread. I hated Wallace more and more every minute. Taco seemed to get smaller every time I looked at him. If he would've played the whole game, he would've been about 5'2".

DUDS

We don't have the space to get into this one, but here goes...

Tramon Williams Make a play on the ball. Ball react. Once the ball is in the air, read the pass and go catch the freakin' ball. Perry and Whitt Jr are excellent secondary coaches, this bunch they have just isn't ball hungry. See ball, go get it. Get that big eye for the ball and pick that mfer.

DLine interior.
Where did Raji, Pick, & Jolly go? they looked unstoppable up there a couple weeks ago. Why did they disappear?

Your thoughts, kids?

[denverYooper]

M3 is a stud for the two challenges. He was trying to will some points to the team.

[pbmax]

I don't know what to call Raji in that game. He was doing his one man show by blasting through the center or guard and getting penetration. But the back would just veer off him and get around the end. Looked EXACTLY like the Vikings games last year.

They spent a lot of time in that nickel and in this case I think it cost them late. The OLBs weren't making tackles. Until the starters are back, Raji has to just control his gap. It would have been better of McCoy had to run into the middle.

[denverYooper]

Sam Shields must be stud because no one is throwing his way very often. Maybe it's just that those long white gloves make it appear as though he has Go-go-Gadget arms.

[woodbuck27]

(Run, I'm not jumping your turf, but it's the last day to discuss this topic)

Well, I didn't wanna look at this thread either, but here goes.

STUDS

Boykin It's been discussed on the forum, but this kid really shines. He's smooth, knows the whole route tree, and plays with great rhythm. Good hands and is mentally tough. I thought we were hosed when we had to go with him, but actually we've got another smart skilled WR now.

Datone Jones. Kid made a quantum leap. Showed more moves than he has all year and nailed a couple sacks. I figured he was a couple years away, but he has skills.

The groin muscle of Seneca Wallace. The muscle saved us from 4-6 games of dread. I hated Wallace more and more every minute. Taco seemed to get smaller every time I looked at him. If he would've played the whole game, he would've been about 5'2".

DUDS

We don't have the space to get into this one, but here goes...

Tramon Williams Make a play on the ball. Ball react. Once the ball is in the air, read the pass and go catch the freakin' ball. Perry and Whitt Jr are excellent secondary coaches, this bunch they have just isn't ball hungry. See ball, go get it. Get that big eye for the ball and pick that mfer.

DLine interior.
Where did Raji, Pick, & Jolly go? they looked unstoppable up there a couple weeks ago. Why did they disappear?

Your thoughts, kids?

Your post made me laugh KY.

DLine interior.

" Where did Raji, Pick, & Jolly go? they looked unstoppable up there a couple weeks ago. Why did they disappear? " KYPack

They were eating up offensive line blockers. They ate so much that they blew up ... don't you know !

GO PACK !

[woodbuck27]

I don't know what to call Raji in that game. He was doing his one man show by blasting through the center or guard and getting penetration. But the back would just veer off him and get around the end. Looked EXACTLY like the Vikings games last year.

They spent a lot of time in that nickel and in this case I think it cost them late. The OLBs weren't making tackles. Until the starters are back, Raji has to just control his gap. It would have been better of McCoy had to run into the middle.

" I don't know what to call Raji in that game. He was doing his one man show by blasting through the center or guard and getting penetration. But the back would just veer off him and get around the end " pbmax

Didn't you see his helmut spin sideways when he blasted through the center or guard?

Raji's head turns left and then right .... " Help I think I went blind ! I can't see anything. "

PACKERS !

[denverYooper]

Eddie Lacy? PFF has him with 61 of 73 yards after contact and 6 forced missed tackles. (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/11/refo-eagles-packers-week-10/)

[Bossman641]

DUDS
OLB's (CM3 included) - they made Barbre look like a pro bowler
Safeties

[Upnorth]

MM Stud - excellent play calling and with a few key differences by the players (red zone int especially) we could ahve won. He took a practice squad player and made him look kinda okay so cudos to play calling. Newhouse Dud, just dud, wow he sucked.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Newhouse Dud, just dud, wow he sucked.

I started this year telling people that Newhouse would come around. As a highly respected and influential football analyst, I imagine a number of people relied on my judgement, and are now confused and disillusioned.

As President Obama said recently, "I am sorry that they, you know, are finding themselves in this situation, based on assurances they got from me."

[pbmax]

Dud: Secondary. McGinn calls Tramon the second best player in the Eagles game. Rating the Packers versus the Eagles (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-the-eagles-b99139894z1-231526131.html)


SECONDARY (1):
It's entirely possible that Morgan Burnett (71) has never played this poorly. On DeSean Jackson's 55-yard TD, Burnett was in the middle of a three-deep secondary. If he continues to backpedal smoothly, chances are Foles never throws the ball. But when Burnett squatted, bringing his feet to parallel, Foles let it fly and Burnett was dead meat. Tramon Williams (61) was in good position and made a strong leap for the interception, but in his desperation Burnett ruined it by tipping the ball up and away. On McCoy's 20-yard run, Burnett was unblocked and assigned to hold outside leverage. He ducked his head, stopped his feet and off went McCoy outside. On Riley Cooper's 32-yard TD, Burnett was beat by 10 yards. M.D. Jennings (50) made a bad read, gave up the middle and then compounded his error by running toward a spot instead of the man. These are the mistakes Jennings hasn't been making and can't afford to make again. Williams blitzed effectively, tackled well and showed speed and fluidity in coverage. The best player was Sam Shields (60). He matched against Jackson from late in the first half on and fared well other than a 21-yard reception on a comeback route. Now that Casey Hayward (23) damaged his hamstring for the third time, his return this season has to be questionable to doubtful.



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[CaptainKickass]

DUD:

Bob McGinn. He stays on the Dud list for his dim-witted, lame-brained, ludicrously retarded article about winning without Rodgers.

[ThunderDan]

DUD:

Refs - It sure seems like every bang-bang play goes against the Packers and we have to challenge to get correct. The fumble by Foles that Tramon recovered could have been a Packers TD instead we had to challenge and got the ball at the 13 and we didn't score. It seems like we have one of those a week.

Is there any way of seeing how many challenges GB has had this year verses the challenge made by the team the Packers were playing that week? I would guess it would work out to something like 10-3.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Dud: Secondary. McGinn calls Tramon the second best player in the Eagles game. Rating the Packers versus the Eagles (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-the-eagles-b99139894z1-231526131.html)

McGinn also said that Daniels and Hawk were the only two in the front seven who had good games.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

DUDS
OLB's (CM3 included) - they made Barbre look like a pro bowler
Safeties

Stud, or maybe studette, your avatar, old but not dead yet....

[CaptainKickass]

DUD:

Refs - It sure seems like every bang-bang play goes against the Packers and we have to challenge to get correct. The fumble by Foles that Tramon recovered could have been a Packers TD instead we had to challenge and got the ball at the 13 and we didn't score. It seems like we have one of those a week.

Is there any way of seeing how many challenges GB has had this year verses the challenge made by the team the Packers were playing that week? I would guess it would work out to something like 10-3.

Man - the refs suck ass across the league, the NFL doesn't want to do anything about it and nobody wants to talk about it. My guess is that everyone fears another episode of the "replacement ref" debacle, and so they just don't question it and accept the current situation as "well that's just how it is".

[MadScientist]

DUD:

Refs - It sure seems like every bang-bang play goes against the Packers and we have to challenge to get correct. The fumble by Foles that Tramon recovered could have been a Packers TD instead we had to challenge and got the ball at the 13 and we didn't score. It seems like we have one of those a week.


It looked like Tramon was touched after recovering the fumble as he was on the ground and tangled up with the QB, so the end result was the correct call.

[pbmax]

McGinn also said that Daniels and Hawk were the only two in the front seven who had good games.

Yeah, but I am not sure how he can miss Jones. He had two sacks and some of the only pressures.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah, but I am not sure how he can miss Jones. He had two sacks and some of the only pressures.

Actually, he didn't say Jones had a bad game. Daniels had 4 1/2 pressures. On a side note can we get a game where either Jones or Neal doesn't jump offsides? Matthews jumps offside frequently also.

[woodbuck27]

Actually, he didn't say Jones had a bad game. Daniels had 4 1/2 pressures. On a side note can we get a game where either Jones or Neal doesn't jump offsides? Matthews jumps offside frequently also.

The coach's have to get them off the beans.

[Tony Oday]

The refs. Sorry I usually dont bitch about them but our WR get mugged and nothing...our CBs breathe on the WR we get a flag..

[KYPack]

No Missin' Crosby hate?

I figured he'd be the first comment.

[Patler]

DUDS
Perry and Whitt Jr are excellent secondary coaches, this bunch they have just isn't ball hungry. See ball, go get it. Get that big eye for the ball and pick that mfer.


Are they? I know they are said to be, but DBs come and DBs go, yet many of the problems remain the same. Blown coverages, failures to communicate, etc. Every year there are a couple new DBs fpr these excellent coaches to work with, but it never changes.

Maybe they aren't as good as we have been lead to believe.

[Joemailman]

Jordy and James Jones. Both had legitimate chances at TD catches and couldn't convert. Jordy with a drop and Jones couldn't get his foot in. They may not have been routine chances, but when you're down to your 3rd string QB, your top receivers have to step up. They didn't when it counted most.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Fuck it, I'm going after the lame and infirm.

Clay Matthews looked horrible. That's a dud, even it ain't his fault. Don't play if you can't.

Seneca Wallace pulling a groin on a play when he isn't even tackled? Double dud. Maybe he is just old, but nobody asked him to get old, that was his idea.

[run pMc]

KY, thanks for starting the thread.

Studs: Lacy. Everyone in the stadium knew who was getting the ball, and he still produced, taking some hellacious hits along the way.
Boykin. 13 targets, 8 catches. He's exceeded my expectations, and gives TT a plan B is James Jones leaves in FA.
Tolzien for coming in and throwing for 280. He gets dinged for having iffy footwork that IMO contributed mightily to the red zone pick. Honestly, I don't think Wallace could've played better...and he had the week to prepare.
Lang for playing Center and not botching a snap. Hard to do.

Duds: I'll cop McGinn's rating for the most part and go with everyone on defense except Daniels, Datone, and Hawk. The secondary and DL were especially bad, and Matthews was rusty and ineffective with that club. After losing the CHI game, they played even worse and lost this game as well...not the offense.

Newhouse reminded everyone why he shouldn't be a starter.

Crosby for the 2 missed FG's.

The refs didn't help matters...why not...they get a Dud rating too.

[hoosier]

When EDS went down the interior blocking on the run game really went to hell. Don't know if that is all Lang's fault but they couldn't even get Lacy going against a seven man front.

[run pMc]

Are they? I know they are said to be, but DBs come and DBs go, yet many of the problems remain the same. Blown coverages, failures to communicate, etc. Every year there are a couple new DBs fpr these excellent coaches to work with, but it never changes.

Maybe they aren't as good as we have been lead to believe.

I think it's more execution by the players than the coaching. Some teams have high round picks in the secondary and still can't stop a completion. Shields, Tramon, Jennings were FA castoffs who got coached up, Hyde is a R5 rookie, etc. There isn't a high round pick in the secondary, unless you count Burnett (3rd round). The Vikings, by comparison, have Xavier Rhodes (R1 rookie), Chris Cook (R2 pick), Harrison Smith (R1 pick, albeit injured), Josh Robinson (R3)...and they still can't stop the pass. Gotta think that's more than talent -- coaching and execution matter.

It's a stupid cliche that I hate, but with Rodgers hurt I wonder if players are "trying to do too much", not doing their jobs and playing the scheme.

That said, it would help if they tackled better.

[Zool]

Jordy and James Jones. Both had legitimate chances at TD catches and couldn't convert. Jordy with a drop and Jones couldn't get his foot in. They may not have been routine chances, but when you're down to your 3rd string QB, your top receivers have to step up. They didn't when it counted most.

I can't let this one go. The catch that Nelson made on that sidelines was nothing short of fantastic. The fact that he even came down with it was him stepping up.

[denverYooper]

"Paul Ott Carruth"'s breakdowns are usually interesting.

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/xs-and-0s-capers-or-the-players

Essentially, he's got the Safeties as the big duds on the day. But dings Hawk and Mike Neal for bad decisions on big plays also.

[Patler]

I think it's more execution by the players than the coaching. Some teams have high round picks in the secondary and still can't stop a completion. Shields, Tramon, Jennings were FA castoffs who got coached up, Hyde is a R5 rookie, etc. There isn't a high round pick in the secondary, unless you count Burnett (3rd round). The Vikings, by comparison, have Xavier Rhodes (R1 rookie), Chris Cook (R2 pick), Harrison Smith (R1 pick, albeit injured), Josh Robinson (R3)...and they still can't stop the pass. Gotta think that's more than talent -- coaching and execution matter.

It's a stupid cliche that I hate, but with Rodgers hurt I wonder if players are "trying to do too much", not doing their jobs and playing the scheme.

That said, it would help if they tackled better.

I don't buy that excuse. Lower draft picks and FAs can know their assignments and communicate on the field just as well as top draft picks. Even if they are not blessed with prototypical size and/or athletic ability, they can play with their heads. If the problems were unique to this season with these particular players, that would be one thing. But, many of the problems are not new.

The Packers' defense has given up big plays and more than too much yardage for many (not all) recent seasons, even when they were getting turnovers. It happened in years when Collins and Woodson were there and in their prime years. The only thing different this year is that they are failing to get the turnovers.

I am starting to look at the DBs much the same way that I have OL. The names and faces keep changing, but many of the problems remain the same. That leads me to believe that at least some part of the cause is either coaching or scheme.

[pbmax]

The Packers' defense has given up big plays and more than too much yardage for many (not all) recent seasons, even when they were getting turnovers. It happened in years when Collins and Woodson were there and in their prime years. The only thing different this year is that they are failing to get the turnovers.

I think in some ways the problem in the secondary is worse as far as coaching impact. While each position group has weaknesses (OLine was run blocking for a long time and DBs had trouble with zone) the O Line at least consistently excelled in one area (pass pro) and held its own in others (communication, ability of backups to play).

The D backfield has shown the ability to cover in man (though that has been deteriorating) and pick off passes. But it has often had trouble playing as a unit and has never recovered from losing Collins, who I suspect covered a lot of flaws.

[run pMc]

I meant to suggest that the IMO coaches have actually done a good job with lower draft picks (and presumably lesser talent) compared to other teams, so I'm reluctant to blame the coaches. I think the players are more responsible for their (lack of) performance than the coaches.

When Collins went down the secondary suffered noticably...partially due to his athletic ability, but I suspect also because he was a good communicator. 2011 was pretty miserable and a common excuse was communication issues. This year Burnett was out early and the other safety spot hasn't exactly been very stable/productive with Jennings/McMillian/Banjo vying to snaps. that's a lot of shuffling, and I wonder if there are some resulting communication issues mixing with inexperienced/younger players causing a lot of problems. Tramon has been very inconsistent, and Hayward being hurt hasn't help them at corner, either.

It's a lot of things, no easy answer, but bottom line they need to play better.

[Pugger]

Are they? I know they are said to be, but DBs come and DBs go, yet many of the problems remain the same. Blown coverages, failures to communicate, etc. Every year there are a couple new DBs fpr these excellent coaches to work with, but it never changes.

Maybe they aren't as good as we have been lead to believe.

I've been thinking the same thing. Folks want Capers gone but do we really want these coaches who can't get our DBs to play decently to run the entire defense?

[Pugger]

When EDS went down the interior blocking on the run game really went to hell. Don't know if that is all Lang's fault but they couldn't even get Lacy going against a seven man front.

Didn't we lose Barclay in there too and had to plug in Newhouse who isn't the best run blocking tackle in the world? EDS must be playing better at center than we thought. I hope he can be back on Sunday in NJ.

[Pugger]

I don't buy that excuse. Lower draft picks and FAs can know their assignments and communicate on the field just as well as top draft picks. Even if they are not blessed with prototypical size and/or athletic ability, they can play with their heads. If the problems were unique to this season with these particular players, that would be one thing. But, many of the problems are not new.

The Packers' defense has given up big plays and more than too much yardage for many (not all) recent seasons, even when they were getting turnovers. It happened in years when Collins and Woodson were there and in their prime years. The only thing different this year is that they are failing to get the turnovers.

I am starting to look at the DBs much the same way that I have OL. The names and faces keep changing, but many of the problems remain the same. That leads me to believe that at least some part of the cause is either coaching or scheme.

But I don't know if I'd blast Campen these days. He is getting a rookie 4th round tackle to hold his own on the left side and getting an UDFA center and right tackle to run block like nobody's business. Even after the injuries last Sunday caused guys to move around we still only gave up one sack if memory serves.

[Pugger]

I meant to suggest that the IMO coaches have actually done a good job with lower draft picks (and presumably lesser talent) compared to other teams, so I'm reluctant to blame the coaches. I think the players are more responsible for their (lack of) performance than the coaches.

When Collins went down the secondary suffered noticably...partially due to his athletic ability, but I suspect also because he was a good communicator. 2011 was pretty miserable and a common excuse was communication issues. This year Burnett was out early and the other safety spot hasn't exactly been very stable/productive with Jennings/McMillian/Banjo vying to snaps. that's a lot of shuffling, and I wonder if there are some resulting communication issues mixing with inexperienced/younger players causing a lot of problems. Tramon has been very inconsistent, and Hayward being hurt hasn't help them at corner, either.

It's a lot of things, no easy answer, but bottom line they need to play better.

I think we can all agree SAFETY is a huge need we have to address this offseason - even a bigger need than TE.

[Patler]

Didn't we lose Barclay in there too and had to plug in Newhouse who isn't the best run blocking tackle in the world? EDS must be playing better at center than we thought. I hope he can be back on Sunday in NJ.

Newhouse was in from the time EDS went out, because the O-line shuffle to replace EDS had Lang moving to center, Barclay into Lang's spot at RG, and Newhouse filled in at RT for Barclay. Later, when Barclay was hurt, Lane Taylor came in at RG.

One guy gets hurt, and three positions are changed.

[KYPack]

"Paul Ott Carruth"'s breakdowns are usually interesting.

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/xs-and-0s-capers-or-the-players

Essentially, he's got the Safeties as the big duds on the day. But dings Hawk and Mike Neal for bad decisions on big plays also.

Man, that POC guy really knows his stuff.

The players were in proper schemes, but utterly failed in execution.

[run pMc]

Man, that POC guy really knows his stuff.

The players were in proper schemes, but utterly failed in execution.

Agree. thanks for the link!