Official Packers vs Giants game day thread

[Joemailman]

game over, season over.

One game out with 6 to go.

[Teamcheez1]

There is no reason to bring Rodgers back this season. Let him heal and look forward to 2014.

[George Cumby]

game over, season over.

More time on Sundays to rake, I suppose.

[channtheman]

game over, season over.

Don't underestimate the ability of the Lions and Bears to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Those shitty teams can tank at the end of the year.

[channtheman]

Keep celebrating Giants. You beat the 2nd best college QB in the State in the last 5 years.

No beating bad teams with bad QB's is an amazing accomplishment, said the announcer for the Packers/Giants game.

[Teamcheez1]

Giants should be able to run the clock out against this defense.

[pittstang5]

So what's MM going to fix this week?

[channtheman]

See ya guys next week. Sorry I couldn't bring it home with the game day thread. Someone else will have to ride the wave to the Super Bowl when we go on a 6 game win streak to end the year.

[pbmax]

Hold on Matthews

[pittstang5]

See ya guys next week. Sorry I couldn't bring it home with the game day thread. Someone else will have to ride the wave to the Super Bowl when we go on a 6 game win streak to end the year.

Let me do it, let me do it. I'll bring back the Whammy!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tolzien did not make a bad play on the JPP interception, that was an exceptional play by JPP

[red]

lol

now the D decides to get to the QB

[Guiness]

Giants O messing up two more downs in a row. First Clay's deflection, then the pass. I am convinced they are giving something away there.

[pbmax]

4th Quarter D is better. But still 20 points on board. Special Teams set up 14 of them.

Despite horrible wary play, they have come back to play OK.

[pbmax]

Tolzien did not make a bad play on the JPP interception, that was an exceptional play by JPP

Something was off. Can't have someone in your throwing lane on that quick a pass. Either bad read or bad protection call.

[Teamcheez1]

lol

now the D decides to get to the QB

These sacks will add to the statistics, but mean nothing at this point in the game.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

It sucks during this losing streak, but we are only one game out, season ain't over yet...

[pbmax]

Whatever the arm concerns were, he is better mid to deep at this point. Might simply be footwork now.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Something was off. Can't have someone in your throwing lane on that quick a pass. Either bad read or bad protection call.

JPP was damn clever, he hid, than sprung like a giant cat. maybe rodgers would have spotted it, but was a hell of a play.

[pittstang5]

tough mother if I ever saw one....too bad he just makes critical INTs.

[Teamcheez1]

It sucks during this losing streak, but we are only one game out, season ain't over yet...

It's a coin toss on the Vikings game.
We won't win the Lions game.

[red]

So what's MM going to fix this week?

if the team was a house, i would blow it up and start from scratch

[Packers4Glory]

I think tolz has potential.

The pick 6 was an outstanding defensive play.

Might as well let him start the rest of the season. No point risking Rodgers getting hurt worse.

[pbmax]

JPP was damn clever, he hid, than sprung like a giant cat. maybe rodgers would have spotted it, but was a hell of a play.

Yeah, but you could do that every play on wide quick throws. Matthews has done it twice. Offense has to have a counter for a guy sitting in the throwing lane.

[Packers4Glory]

Bitching about that pick 6 is fucking retarded. Use your heads. That's not on tolz. Cut the guy don't let him get up like that.

[red]

These sacks will add to the statistics, but mean nothing at this point in the game.

just like all of tolziens yards

people will point after the game to all the yards he threw for

but yards don't win you games

[red]

Bitching about that pick 6 is fucking retarded. Use your heads.

yeah, trying to throw the ball a foot over a guys head who is just standing there waiting is fucking brilliant

[pbmax]

That was Favre like. Late over the middle after barely avoiding being killed.

[red]

WHOOP

INT #3

[Guiness]

I think tolz has potential.

The pick 6 was an outstanding defensive play.

Might as well let him start the rest of the season. No point risking Rodgers getting hurt worse.

Want to take that back with the last play? He's reminding me a lot of Kitna.

Look at him, he knows he's done. Flynn next week I'm sure.

[pbmax]

Still like him as young developmental guy. But at year 3 he can't be stashed on PS anymore.

[Guiness]

Giants covered a TD spread to boot. Embarrassing.

[red]

1. i'm thinking the over/under on tolzien turnovers today is 2. and i's take the over on that action all day
.

NAILED IT

looks like a young brett favre

looks good at times, but also looks horrible and out of control at times

both QB's just threw the ball as hard as they could and hoped for the best

[Bossman641]

Something was off. Can't have someone in your throwing lane on that quick a pass. Either bad read or bad protection call.

I'll have to watch the replay but it didn't look like bak made an effort to cut jpp

[pbmax]

Dom got that one right. Had Raji in psycho incase they ran a draw.

[pittstang5]

i don't see how they beat the vikings next week. SOOOOO many issues.

[pbmax]

I'll have to watch the replay but it didn't look like bak made an effort to cut jpp

No effort at all. Which is why it either wasn't called or he missed it. Or an adjustment wasn't made. JPP might have been lined up deep like a LB at the start. Not on LOS.

[pittstang5]

Wow, our special teams make the Giants Sp teams look good. That's saying something.

[pbmax]

Why do this? Either throw deep or kneel

[red]

i don't see how they beat the vikings next week. SOOOOO many issues.

god help us if we make ponder look like joe montana

[King Friday]

Play Tolzien? Are you guys insane? The guy is not a starting caliber NFL QB. I don't need multiple more weeks of this to prove it.

There is no risk to playing Rodgers if he can handle the pain in 1 or 2 more weeks. A broken collarbone is not career threatening. At worst, you lose him for the rest of this year and he'll be back in time for offseason workouts. We are certainly not out of the playoff hunt by any means.

PLAY TOLZIEN THE REST OF THE YEAR? Has everyone become a pansy ass around here?

[red]

Why do this? Either throw deep or kneel

padding stats

[pbmax]

OK, now hail mary. But will there be any time left?

[Teamcheez1]

Thanksgiving is really going to suck this year.

[King Friday]

looks like a young brett favre

The young Brett Favre won his fair share with a less than stellar supporting cast. Tolzien has all kinds of talent around him. He ain't going to win a thing.

[red]

should be a fun post game show on WTMJ

sure a few fans are a little pissed

[pbmax]

I don;t understand that offense down two scores. Why risk an injury?

[Harlan Huckleby]

sure a few fans are a little pissed

at who?

[red]

The young Brett Favre won his fair share with a less than stellar supporting cast. Tolzien has all kinds of talent around him. He ain't going to win a thing.

it wasn't a complement

[Joemailman]

NAILED IT

looks like a young brett favre

looks good at times, but also looks horrible and out of control at times

both QB's just threw the ball as hard as they could and hoped for the best

Yeah, but Favre would throw it so hard that some would be INT's were dropped.

[red]

at who?

the whole fucking team and coaching staff for starters

[Packers4Glory]

First start he threw for a ton of yards with a great percentage. Yes 3 picks. 1 was a great play. Another was after escaping pressure and trying to make a play down 2 scores late. Give me a fucking break. Some of you make it sound like he threw it right to the defense on the pick 6. The O-line needs to cut block on those types of throws. Do you even watch football?

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Don't blame Tolzien, blame the coaching staff for not having an adequate backup behind Rogers. This coaching staff fails at so many levels, again, I hope some serious changes are made this year.

[Teamcheez1]

First start he threw for a ton of yards with a great percentage. Yes 3 picks. 1 was a great play. Another was after escaping pressure and trying to make a play down 2 scores late. Give me a fucking break. Some of you make it sound like he threw it right to the defense on the pick 6. The O-line needs to cut block on those types of throws. Do you even watch football?

I'm o.k. with Tolzien starting (what choice do we really have?).

This team will probably find a way to lose regardless of who the back-up QB is right now.

[Packers4Glory]

Plus Tolkien had to play with fucking Newhouse who has the slowest feet I've ever seen

[Joemailman]

Sure was a nice kick by Crosby.

[Packers4Glory]

Rodgers is one of a few QB who can play at an all pro level behind the line we had w Barclay. Throw in Newhouse and it's amazing Tolzien played as good as he did.

[red]

First start he threw for a ton of yards with a great percentage. Yes 3 picks. 1 was a great play. Another was after escaping pressure and trying to make a play down 2 scores late. Give me a fucking break. Some of you make it sound like he threw it right to the defense on the pick 6. The O-line needs to cut block on those types of throws. Do you even watch football?

every single fucking QB in NFL history has to deal with that same shit

he doesn't have it. period. his offense has scored 1 TD in 2 games

i don't give a fuck if he throws for 500 yards in a game. yards don't win you anything

and he did throw it right to the fucking defense. all JPP had to do was get his hands up. he was just fucking standing there, he didn't have to do anything but put his hands up. the QB needs to be smart enough to notice that the guy hasn't been cut blocked and he needs to not throw the ball right to him anyways

[Teamcheez1]

Crosby and Twill came to play today.
Tolzien played hard even with the 3 Int's.

No one else impressed today (maybe Jordy).

[Badgerinmaine]

Rodgers is the franchise. You absolutely, positively do not bring him back before he is healed, period. Sports history is littered with people who came back too early and screwed up their throwing motion. And yes, I think Green Bay can beat Minnesota with Tolzein. P4G is absolutely right. T. has a good arm and showed great elusiveness but someone that raw will make some mistakes. They're on their third string QB, for Chrissakes.

[Badgerinmaine]

Plus Tolkien had to play with fucking Newhouse who has the slowest feet I've ever seen
Newhouse looks awful.

[Teamcheez1]

every single fucking QB in NFL history has to deal with that same shit

he doesn't have it. period. his offense has scored 1 TD in 2 games

i don't give a fuck if he throws for 500 yards in a game. yards don't win you anything

and he did throw it right to the fucking defense. all JPP had to do was get his hands up. he was just fucking standing there, he didn't have to do anything but put his hands up

At the end of the day, all that matters is a "W" right now, and we are on a 3 game losing streak.

[Badgerinmaine]

Crosby and Twill came to play today.
Tolzien played hard even with the 3 Int's.

No one else impressed today (maybe Jordy).
Lacy looked damned good on the TD run, but I am not impressed with the O-line. Not many holes for him today.

[red]

Rodgers is one of a few QB who can play at an all pro level behind the line we had w Barclay. Throw in Newhouse and it's amazing Tolzien played as good as he did.

you're just one of those people thats impressed with big numbers aren't you?

[Teamcheez1]

Lacy looked damned good on the TD run, but I am not impressed with the O-line. Not many holes for him today.

Lacy just had nowhere to run today.

[red]

Crosby and Twill came to play today.
Tolzien played hard even with the 3 Int's.

No one else impressed today (maybe Jordy).

lol, here we go

t-will had one INT on a horrible throw or route and made one nice tackle. he was lost in coverage many times again today. he did not have a good game, he had 2 good plays

[Teamcheez1]

lol, here we go

t-will had one INT on a horrible throw or route and made one nice tackle. he was lost in coverage many times again today. he did not have a good game, he had 2 good plays

Perhaps your right. Either way, I don't see him back next year unless it is at a bargain price.

[red]

Lacy looked damned good on the TD run, but I am not impressed with the O-line. Not many holes for him today.

this line jumbled up line were half the line is playing out of position and newhouse is on the field is just horrible

[Bossman641]

lol, here we go

t-will had one INT on a horrible throw or route and made one nice tackle. he was lost in coverage many times again today. he did not have a good game, he had 2 good plays

He had a good game. His tackling was solid and none of the long passes were on him. Don't let past games influence today

[Iron Mike]

Plus Tolkien had to play with fucking Newhouse who has the slowest feet I've ever seen

LOL. Lord of the INTs. :)

[SMBASS]

The thing that disappoints me most about this three game losing streak is that all three of the teams we've lost to just downright suck. The Bores, Eagles, and Giants are complete crap and I'm just pissed that we couldn't find a way to win at least one of these games. If we would have lost to teams such as Seattle, Denver, New Orleans or San Fran it would be a lot easier for me to understand/accept. This should have been the beginning of the easiest part of our schedule and if we were truly an elite team and had better overall talent or game planning/coaching, we would have won at least one or two of these games. We needed our D and special teams to pick up the slack for the O in these games and they completely crapped the bed. I definitely don't discount the injuries, etc. but man, these three losses just don't sit well with me.

[pbmax]

Don't blame Tolzien, blame the coaching staff for not having an adequate backup behind Rogers. This coaching staff fails at so many levels, again, I hope some serious changes are made this year.

Coaches don't draft the talent. They may have overestimated Harrell's ability to improve this year, but the position wasn't overflowing with quality beside him. BJ Coleman was interesting but having two developmental guys at once is a crapshoot.

[pbmax]

Plus Tolkien had to play with fucking Newhouse who has the slowest feet I've ever seen

I hope not. His feet are the only think allowing him to play tackle. Its was the one clear skill he had that was pro level.

[Packers4Glory]

I hope not. His feet are the only think allowing him to play tackle. Its was the one clear skill he had that was pro level.
Well then he gets bad starts off the snap. Whatever. He's garbage

[Guiness]

The thing that disappoints me most about this three game losing streak is that all three of the teams we've lost to just downright suck. The Bores, Eagles, and Giants are complete crap and I'm just pissed that we couldn't find a way to win at least one of these games. If we would have lost to teams such as Seattle, Denver, New Orleans or San Fran it would be a lot easier for me to understand/accept. This should have been the beginning of the easiest part of our schedule and if we were truly an elite team and had better overall talent or game planning/coaching, we would have won at least one or two of these games. We needed our D and special teams to pick up the slack for the O in these games and they completely crapped the bed. I definitely don't discount the injuries, etc. but man, these three losses just don't sit well with me.

Wow did you express exactly how I feel. If the Packers talent level was, as we've been left to believe, that much better they would've found a way to to win one of these games. The Giants and Eagles are both horrible teams this year. The only reason one of them is likely to make the SB is because it's them, the Redskins or the Cowboys. The Pack made them both look like SB contenders.

[pittstang5]

Well then he gets bad starts off the snap. Whatever. He's garbage


PB probably has a better read than me, but from what I saw, he doesn't get his hands on his guy and when that happens, he just gives up. THe thing I don't get is how did he manage to stay in the game. I'd bench his ass and give Sherrod a shot starting this week. He's a lifetime backup that you really don't want to see in a game.

[red]

PB probably has a better read than me, but from what I saw, he doesn't get his hands on his guy and when that happens, he just gives up. THe thing I don't get is how did he manage to stay in the game. I'd bench his ass and give Sherrod a shot starting this week. He's a lifetime backup that you really don't want to see in a game.

if sherrod is healthy at all then i would rather see him being rusty as hell versus anymore of newhouse

[digitaldean]

The Pierre-Paul INT was a combo of Tolzien's not holding up the throw plus Bahktiari letting Pierre-Paul get airborne. Block him in the gut or something for crying out loud! The 1st INT Tolzien was like our last Badger/Packer QB Randy Wright. He locked onto Jones and never looked off anyone. Beason followed Tolzien's eyes and snuck in to get a pick.

Newhouse should be sent packing. He is god awful.

MM stuck with the run game way too much. Tolzien was actually getting more success with the deep balls today than the short stuff. When they had that many bodies crowding the line, the G-men ended up blowing a lot of the screen plays up.

[pbmax]

lol, here we go

t-will had one INT on a horrible throw or route and made one nice tackle. he was lost in coverage many times again today. he did not have a good game, he had 2 good plays

He had more than one good tackle. He had another one for a 3rd down stop and another in the backfield. It was a good game for him. The question is what happens next week because he has become inconsistent along with a decline in his one on one cover skills.

[pbmax]

this line jumbled up line were half the line is playing out of position and newhouse is on the field is just horrible

It was only barclay missing today. EDS played the whole game I believe.

[digitaldean]

He had more than one good tackle. He had another one for a 3rd down stop and another in the backfield. It was a good game for him. The question is what happens next week because he has become inconsistent along with a decline in his one on one cover skills.

The secondary as a whole is ineffective and inconsistent. House could have had a pick earlier in the game as well. Williams had a couple of sure tackles (which is less than can be said of some of the D trying to tackle the ball more than runner). We had WAY too many instances of slow freaking TE's ramble wide open down middle of field.

[digitaldean]

Pretty darn simple. We need to win the next 2 games to have any shot of staying in this race. If we can't be the hideous Queens, we don't deserve near the post season. IF we can get a win vs. Minny, we can at least have a shot of trying to sweep the Lions.

Personally, I don't think it'll happen. If we can't beat the Queens, it's an add'l divisional loss, we may be two games back of BOTH Chicago (at STL next week) and DET (home vs. TB) and the deck is stacked against us trying to make any sort of run toward the playoffs. Winning the division is the only route, there are too many conference tiebreakers stacked against the Packers. Plus if Carolina keeps playing the way they are, it'll be SF and Carolina as the Wild Cards.

[channtheman]

^^ I agree. We have to win our division to get into the playoffs at this point. We absolutely HAVE to beat the Vikings this coming Sunday. If we don't beat the Vikings, I give up on the season.

[George Cumby]

M3's teams seem to play best when backed into a corner.

The same goes for Grumpy's Giants.

Eli > Tolzien/Flynn

I lack faith in this team.

Giants win, 27-17

The sun shines on a dog's ass once in a while, too.

Not much consolation in getting it mostly right........

[woodbuck27]

ARRON RODGERS FOR MVP?

only player in history that can make both his offense and the defense somehow better by being in uniform

The only NFL player that proves he's Team MVP by not playing.

[woodbuck27]

wide open over the middle

ANDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Drink

Hilarious ! :smile: X10

[woodbuck27]

They will need him again. But not for those plays.

Nor anything actually related to playing offense.

Starks day .... -1 yard on 2 carries.

Wow !

[woodbuck27]

house pulled a hammy

In Packer Land that means ....gone for at least one month.

Remember in the old days or way back in the 80's and 90's when a player pulled a hammy and went into the dressing room got treated and returned to play in the next quarter?

Where did that go too?

Ohh .....evidently the Eagles star RB LeSean McCoy is one of those throw back style players. He left the game with just such an injury and the fans holding their faces and did return

[woodbuck27]

Thanks to the GODs the Lions lost.

Lions and Bears are 6-4 and the Packers 5-5. The loss to the GIANTS wasn't crushing.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

Time Of Possession:

Packers = 24:46 Vs GIANTS = 35:14

Way too large a difference.

Scott Tolzien picked three (3) times. TO margin Packers -2.

Incidently in week 12 it's Tampa Bay @ Detroit and Chicago @ St. Louis. One or both of the Lions and Bears should win next week.

Under no circumstance can the Green Bay Packers afford lose next week @ Lambeau Vs the Minnesota Vikings. Whatever it takes or MM must pull out all the stops to get a win Vs the Vikings.

Is it smart to make another switch at QB? Matt Flynn plays well against the Detroit Lions.

I say get him game action next week if Scott Tolzien isn't delivering. MM might even want to start Flynn Vs the Vikings.

MM has to ask this question of his available QB's:

Who will likely do the best job protecting the ball?

PACKERS !

[Guiness]

In Packer Land that means ....gone for at least one month.

Remember in the old days or way back in the 80's and 90's when a player pulled a hammy and went into the dressing room got treated and returned to play in the next quarter?


Remember the days when trainers kept a rotating stock of smelling salts and Vicodin?

[KYPack]

Remember the days when trainers kept a rotating stock of smelling salts and Vicodin?

"Take two perckies, & call me in the morning"

Now that was a old shool trainer.

[Pugger]

shoestring. couldn't get his shoes tied

He should have talked to EDS.

[Pugger]

Fox wanted to make sure that we saw all the lions and steelers shake hands and then make it safely back to the locker room before they switched over to the packer game already in progress

If we think our coaches are inept we should thank god we don't have those bozos running the loins franchise. I pray the Ford family gives Schwartz a contract extension! :lol:

[Pugger]

WHY THE FUCK, IS CLAY COVERING CRUZ?

Because Shields was inactive? Would you rather we had Bush instead?

[Pugger]

how many times have we taken the ball out of the endzone this year and failed to get back to the 20?

its a high number

Fire Slocum! Somebody has to tell these stupid kids NOT to take the ball out of the endzone NO MATTER WHAT. I'd rather we start offensive series on the 20 rather than the 9.

[Pugger]

hey tolzien completed a pass

lets all bask in his greatness

He does throw nice long passes...

[Pugger]

Another red zone stall out. Piss poor play calls all three downs.

We have to admit our red zone offense hasn't been so hot even with AR in there at times this year.

[Pugger]

Glad I'm wrong again. Can't believe he made that. This game could be worse. How the fuck the Gnats only scored 10 is beyond me.

The Gnats are terrible. But without AR and a handful of other starters if the guys we have left in there aren't playing well this is what happens - a loss. :-(

[Pugger]

Why are we starting out again with the playcalling like this?

MM called a piss poor game. The run game just wasn't there but for some reason Mike just kept calling that shit. :-|

[Pugger]

What is the purpose of MD Jennings?

To give Seattle interceptouchdowns.

[Pugger]

Why not? They ain't gonna win without taking some chances.

This. Unfortunately it didn't work.

[Pugger]

Well, I'm going to enjoy my Sundays from now on. There is no way I'm watching this pitiful excuse of a team play after today. This is pathetic. Even with Rogers, I think this game goes about the same way. Giants have had our number for the last several years. We just can't keep up with them.

There is no way in hell they win that game yesterday if Rodgers plays. Having AR in there opens up the run. I think Rodgers can score more than 13 points against them. This isn't the 2011 Giants.

[Pugger]

How do you hold on such a shitty return? Seriously, why does our ST always hold, on every fucking play. Or block in the back, same thing.

If we stop bringing it out of the endzone we can't block in the back and/or hold on returns. :-?

[Pugger]

DATONE JONES.............HIGH UPSIDE for that guy...he has really been bringing it on
He's shown the most of any first round pick of any of them....since Clay IMO

Hi ankle must be 100% now.

[Pugger]

Keep celebrating Giants. You beat the 2nd best college QB in the State in the last 5 years.

No shit. These clowns are gonna get it handed to them by the girls next week. If we had AR and half of our wounded back in there this game isn't even close.

[Pugger]

There is no reason to bring Rodgers back this season. Let him heal and look forward to 2014.

This sentiment only makes sense if we had the same record as MN.

[Pugger]

4th Quarter D is better. But still 20 points on board. Special Teams set up 14 of them.

Despite horrible wary play, they have come back to play OK.

And this is encouraging. If we can get Shields, Perry, Jolly and Pickett back next week and contain AP we can eke out a win against MN.

[Pugger]

tough mother if I ever saw one....too bad he just makes critical INTs.

Scott was really getting hammered in there and stood in there trying to make a play.

[Pugger]

It's a coin toss on the Vikings game.
We won't win the Lions game.

Only if Rodgers is still out.

[Pugger]

Want to take that back with the last play? He's reminding me a lot of Kitna.

Look at him, he knows he's done. Flynn next week I'm sure.

MM has already said Tolz is starting next week. And I don't have a problem with that. Why have a change at QB for the 4th straight week? Continuity wouldn't be a bad thing. Get Flynn some work just in case but I think Tolz has the better arm and will be a better long term back up.

[Pugger]

Play Tolzien? Are you guys insane? The guy is not a starting caliber NFL QB. I don't need multiple more weeks of this to prove it.

There is no risk to playing Rodgers if he can handle the pain in 1 or 2 more weeks. A broken collarbone is not career threatening. At worst, you lose him for the rest of this year and he'll be back in time for offseason workouts. We are certainly not out of the playoff hunt by any means.

PLAY TOLZIEN THE REST OF THE YEAR? Has everyone become a pansy ass around here?

Flynn isn't a starting caliber NFL QB either. But I agree, when Rodgers' collarbone is healed he will be back in there. It didn't help yesterday having Newhouse in there instead of Barclay. If Don can't go maybe we'll finally see Sherrod?

[Pugger]

Plus Tolkien had to play with fucking Newhouse who has the slowest feet I've ever seen

:lol:

[Pugger]

Wow did you express exactly how I feel. If the Packers talent level was, as we've been left to believe, that much better they would've found a way to to win one of these games. The Giants and Eagles are both horrible teams this year. The only reason one of them is likely to make the SB is because it's them, the Redskins or the Cowboys. The Pack made them both look like SB contenders.

Not really. None of these teams will be anywhere near the playoffs in the end, including the stupid bares. We are just so ridiculously short handed right now it is just sad. With all the crap we've endured this year I can't get mad about this situation. I might cry however...

[Pugger]

It was only barclay missing today. EDS played the whole game I believe.

But the drop off from Barclay to Newhouse is alarming.

[Pugger]

The only NFL player that proves he's Team MVP by not playing.

I remember folks talking like this back in 2011 when P. Manning was hurt and the Colts were reeling.