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pbmax
11-17-2013, 10:18 PM
Twitter is all over the play calling first-half (treasonous) versus second-half (sanity).

I love the failure to recognize Tolzien's meltdown under those circumstances plus the Giants starting to ilk the clock in the 4th Quarter.

That said, more people want Capers head on a stick.

pbmax
11-17-2013, 10:20 PM
From Packers.com

Injury update: The injuries the Packers reported after the game were to DE Johnny Jolly (groin) and CB James Nixon (knee). Both players left the game and did not return.

pbmax
11-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Chris Jënkins ‏@ByChrisJenkins 22m
@Justin_Malaise @DaveShreeve @PackerReport When opponents don't have to keep up w/ Rodgers TDs, no longer one-dimensional. Hurts GB defense.


Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 21m
@ByChrisJenkins @Justin_Malaise @DaveShreeve That's a great point. Ultimate front-running team. Take lead, get INTs, extend lead.

call_me_ishmael
11-18-2013, 12:26 AM
Dom has gotta go after this season if only to have a new voice in the room. I would LOVE for MM to make a call to the Lov(i)e doctor.

Bossman641
11-18-2013, 06:39 AM
Did Bostick return? I noticed a lot more Quarless after the injury but can't say for sure whether Bostick played another snap.

woodbuck27
11-18-2013, 06:53 AM
Did Bostick return? I noticed a lot more Quarless after the injury but can't say for sure whether Bostick played another snap.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8259/brandon-bostick

" Brandon Bostick caught one pass for 26 yards in Week 11 against the Giants.

It was the only target Bostick saw. He caught the pass over the middle and was involved in a big-time collision with Will Hill, and Hill took the worst of it.

Bostick is a big dude at 6-foot-3, 260 and remains a guy to monitor in dynasty. He's a big-time athlete."

Nov 17 - 9:41 PM

Comment woodbuck27:

To now that's the best I could come up with on Bostic.

PACKERS !

run pMc
11-18-2013, 07:59 AM
Dom has gotta go after this season if only to have a new voice in the room. I would LOVE for MM to make a call to the Lov(i)e doctor.

If they do replace Capers, I think they go with someone who runs a 3-4 or some kind of hybrid defense. I like Lovie as a DC, but I thought he was a 4-3 Cover 2 guru...so I'm not sure about the fit.

Bossman641
11-18-2013, 08:40 AM
There was some discussion in the game thread about the JPP pick and who was at fault. It appears JPP read the formation and saw the play coming. If you watch the play, JPP rushes upfield but doesn't even attempt to engage Bak, instead he just sorta shadows him. Bak retreats in a normal pass set, so it must not have been designed for him to attempt to cut JPP.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/0ap2000000283934/Giants-defense-INT-TD


In the huddle before the play, Pierre-Paul predicted that a quick throw to the outside was coming, and when he saw the formation he stepped back into the throwing lane on the snap rather than rush Tolzien. At 6-5, he was able to reach up, snatch the quick throw and run untouched for the score.

“I read the formation,” Pierre-Paul said, “the tight end, how he was set. And I caught the ball.”

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20131117/PKR01/311170343/Offensive-limitations-send-Packers-3rd-straight-loss

Patler
11-18-2013, 09:03 AM
It seems they were well prepared for what the Packers would do on both sides of the ball. Victor cruz had this to say:


"They gave us the coverages we were looking for on specific downs and distances and we were able to take advantage of them," Cruz said.

George Cumby
11-18-2013, 09:07 AM
It seems they were well prepared for what the Packers would do on both sides of the ball. Victor cruz had this to say:

So our scheme is predictable and we were out coached. Got it.

woodbuck27
11-18-2013, 09:10 AM
There was some discussion in the game thread about the JPP pick and who was at fault. It appears JPP read the formation and saw the play coming. If you watch the play, JPP rushes upfield but doesn't even attempt to engage Bak, instead he just sorta shadows him. Bak retreats in a normal pass set, so it must not have been designed for him to attempt to cut JPP.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/0ap2000000283934/Giants-defense-INT-TD


http://www.packersnews.com/article/20131117/PKR01/311170343/Offensive-limitations-send-Packers-3rd-straight-loss


Scott Tolzien at this stage in his development (very early) is obvious in his intentions to make a play.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 09:40 AM
It seems they were well prepared for what the Packers would do on both sides of the ball. Victor cruz had this to say:

I would say that was definitely true early. But it appeared the Packers made an adjustment later in the first half that closed that off.

It all goes back to being able to execute your own scheme. How can you use a trail technique with Hyde into the middle of the field when he cannot keep pace?

pbmax
11-18-2013, 09:43 AM
There was some discussion in the game thread about the JPP pick and who was at fault. It appears JPP read the formation and saw the play coming. If you watch the play, JPP rushes upfield but doesn't even attempt to engage Bak, instead he just sorta shadows him. Bak retreats in a normal pass set, so it must not have been designed for him to attempt to cut JPP.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/0ap2000000283934/Giants-defense-INT-TD



http://www.packersnews.com/article/20131117/PKR01/311170343/Offensive-limitations-send-Packers-3rd-straight-loss

It makes sense because he clearly did not intend to rush. I wonder what the counter for that is?

The TE has to move out wide to block and cannot take time to read the DE/OLB. If he sits in the pass lane do you send the pass into the stands and make an alteration or do you run something to counter JPP just standing up?

I would feel worse about it (tough to do for a pick six) but Matthews did the same twice to Manning.

MadScientist
11-18-2013, 09:51 AM
If they do replace Capers, I think they go with someone who runs a 3-4 or some kind of hybrid defense. I like Lovie as a DC, but I thought he was a 4-3 Cover 2 guru...so I'm not sure about the fit.
Given the results this year, I'm not sure the players fit a 3-4. The biggest reason not to is that Clay has a mega contract and OLB in a 4-3 isn't going to make the best use of his talents.

Tony Oday
11-18-2013, 10:04 AM
I still like the 3-4, it has done well against the run what really hurts us is 23 yard cushions on the WRs.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 10:54 AM
Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 24m
#Packers Tolzien 6 for 6 on passes 15+ yards downfield.. Also no sacks allowed. Searching for silver lining in offense..

I think its a fair point that play action might have helped as Bretsky and others were pointing out about the first half play calling. The audibles Tolzien was making were generally well compensated for by the Giants. I saw the ILBs back out for pass coverage after he made checks for a pass and they seemed to get them right. So the checks were too obvious I would bet.

But Tolzien's lack of success throwing more in the second half puts the lie to the unleash him theory.

I do wonder if run-run-pass was chosen partially because he threw downfield better in practice than he did short. Because the short game was a catastrophe. He needs to watch Brees or Wilson. Which is weird considering he is taller than Rodgers. Has to be the arm angle.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 11:00 AM
When is the last time the Packers saw seven or eight in a box?

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20131117/PKR01/311170401/Notebook-Running-game-contends-extra-defenders


“It’s been two straight weeks now of defenses bringing an extra guy down, whether it’s a safety or a corner,” Packers right guard T.J. Lang said. “They’re bringing one more than we can block, and it’s tough, man. It’s a tough way to get yards when you can’t account for one guy. That’s not an excuse, though. You have to make a guy miss and you have to get north and south. That’s really two weeks in a row where we’ve seen the same things from defenses loading the box and making us one-dimensional with the passing game.”

There are counters to it, the toss sweep is one. But actually counter running plays are another. I wonder how much more M3 can add to the running game playbook while Rodgers is on the bench?

pbmax
11-18-2013, 11:13 AM
Sign Sam Shields!


Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
No Shields, no Hayward, no defense. RT @SeifertESPN: Via @ESPNStatsInfo, E. Manning 17-21-218-2 to #Giants WRs. Poor day for #Packers CBs.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 11:19 AM
New York amassed 212 of its 334 yards of total offense in the first half as the Packers’ defense struggled to find stops, particularly on a pair of fourth-and-short runs.

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20131117/PKR01/311170401/Notebook-Running-game-contends-extra-defenders

Well, it doesn't tell us what the adjustment was, but it does demonstrate its effectiveness.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 11:35 AM
Bob McGinn ‏@BobMcGinn 3m
If only the #Packers had more guys named Tramon Williams Sunday vs. Jints ... http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/almost-no-one-rises-to-occasion-for-shorthanded-packers-in-loss-to-giants-b99144315z1-232296861.html …

Now I am doubting that Tramontana had a good game.

Zool
11-18-2013, 12:43 PM
Bob McGinn ‏@BobMcGinn 3m
If only the #Packers had more guys named Tramon Williams Sunday vs. Jints ... http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/almost-no-one-rises-to-occasion-for-shorthanded-packers-in-loss-to-giants-b99144315z1-232296861.html …

Now I am doubting that Tramontana had a good game.

http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg

He had Burnett blanketed on this play.

Bossman641
11-18-2013, 12:59 PM
Bob McGinn ‏@BobMcGinn 3m
If only the #Packers had more guys named Tramon Williams Sunday vs. Jints ... http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/almost-no-one-rises-to-occasion-for-shorthanded-packers-in-loss-to-giants-b99144315z1-232296861.html …

Now I am doubting that Tramontana had a good game.

He had a good game. He had 2-3 takedowns of the Giant RB's when they were trying to get the edge and took down Nicks on a few quick passes.

pittstang5
11-18-2013, 01:01 PM
http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg

He had Burnett blanketed on this play.

Is that picture real? Seriously, is it? SMH, Good Lord! if it is.

denverYooper
11-18-2013, 01:48 PM
They have done something similar at least once a week for the last 3 weeks. And Tramon (and Burnett?) has been involved every time.
B

Pugger
11-18-2013, 03:44 PM
From Packers.com

Injury update: The injuries the Packers reported after the game were to DE Johnny Jolly (groin) and CB James Nixon (knee). Both players left the game and did not return.

Not having Jolly in there didn't help our run D, that's for sure. :-(

Pugger
11-18-2013, 03:48 PM
It seems they were well prepared for what the Packers would do on both sides of the ball. Victor cruz had this to say:

There it is. NY executed better than we did. With all the game film most teams know what's coming but just seeing a specific formation. It is hard to trick your opponent unless you pull something like an onside kick like Mike called last week.

Pugger
11-18-2013, 03:51 PM
They have done something similar at least once a week for the last 3 weeks. And Tramon (and Burnett?) has been involved every time.
B

Somebody is in the wrong place. I would guess the younger player is the one in the wrong spot and not the more seasoned veteran but I might be wrong.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 04:32 PM
Not having Jolly in there didn't help our run D, that's for sure. :-(

Funny thing is, run D was better after he left. Capers adjustments worked. Packers just didn't have an O to take advantage.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 04:33 PM
Its got to be Burnett in the wrong place. As safety you would think he is starting deep. Two, the inside guy is wide open and deeper than Cruz.

But why Burnett is in an empty space is beyond me. Maybe he was trying to avoid Williams?

pbmax
11-18-2013, 04:37 PM
Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 1h
MM: Shields did game day workout, didn't go well. He was injured Thursday in practice, didn't practice Friday.


That explains some of the 1st half shakes we saw. I doubt they gave them two game plans to work with; one with Shields and one without.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 04:40 PM
And why is Tolzien getting another chance?

Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 1h
MM: Have never seen QB hit all his big throws like that in game (Tolzien). Every big shot we called we hit them.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 1h
McCarthy on Tolzien hitting every big shot throw yesterday: "I have never seen a quarterback hit all his big throws like that."

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 1h
McCarthy on Tolzien: Has a lot to work with. There's a lot there for a young quarterback.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 1h
MM high praise with Tolzien's long-ball skills. No circus catches among the five gains of 25-plus through the air.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 04:40 PM
He's Getting Close!

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 1h
MM says Sherrrod had excellent week. "Huge step" at Thurs. padded practice. Stops short of saying he's ready to play.

Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 1h
MM: Barclay was delcared out Friday afternoon. I can't tell you how close he is. Sherrod had excellent week of practice. Huge step.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 04:42 PM
JPP Pick Six Partial Explanation:

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 1h
McCarthy on the pick-six. Hard learning exp for young QB. ...We weren't totally in tune with what everybody was supposed to do on that play.


Okay, now everyone guess who screwed up.

Joemailman
11-18-2013, 05:25 PM
JPP Pick Six Partial Explanation:

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 1h
McCarthy on the pick-six. Hard learning exp for young QB. ...We weren't totally in tune with what everybody was supposed to do on that play.


Okay, now everyone guess who screwed up.

What I took from it was that JPP was not rushing, and Tolzien failed to recognize that. Correct?

pbmax
11-18-2013, 05:28 PM
What I took from it was that JPP was not rushing, and Tolzien failed to recognize that. Correct?

Yes, but I also sensed M3 was saying someone else should have adjusted. My money was on Bach, but could be receiver changing the angle the throw needed to take.

Joemailman
11-18-2013, 05:42 PM
Yes, but I also sensed M3 was saying someone else should have adjusted. My money was on Bach, but could be receiver changing the angle the throw needed to take.

Looking at the replay, I think it's Bach. JPP actually did come upfield about 3 yards before jumping in the air. Bach could have cut him. Check out the video at 1:46. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013111712/2013/REG11/packers@giants#menu=highlights%7CcontentId%3A0ap20 00000283363&tab=analyze

red
11-18-2013, 07:09 PM
It makes sense because he clearly did not intend to rush. I wonder what the counter for that is?


how bout not throw the ball to the guy clearly standing there waiting for you to throw it to him?

red
11-18-2013, 07:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg

He had Burnett blanketed on this play.

what i see from that picture is just a total fuck up by two guys. why isn't tramon trying to cover #80 and why is burnett trying to get to 80 when he should clearly be covering 88

either both these guys just screwed up really bad on the same play, or our scheme is fucking stupid

Patler
11-18-2013, 07:47 PM
http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg

He had Burnett blanketed on this play.

This is the result of an underhanded move by the Giants, and I think it should have been flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. Knowing that both Burnett and Williams are fans of square dance, Victor Cruz came down and yelled "Swing you partner, and dosey doe..." It caused the instantaneous, instinctive reaction by Williams and Burnett that you see in the photo.

Bretsky
11-18-2013, 08:25 PM
It makes sense because he clearly did not intend to rush. I wonder what the counter for that is?

The TE has to move out wide to block and cannot take time to read the DE/OLB. If he sits in the pass lane do you send the pass into the stands and make an alteration or do you run something to counter JPP just standing up?

I would feel worse about it (tough to do for a pick six) but Matthews did the same twice to Manning.


No sure if this was notd, but NFL network was discussing that pick and noted after the game JPP noted based on the formation the Packers lined up in and his study he knew the play was coming.

That is telling

With that being said, I'm sure if JPP takes a couple steps back instead of rushing, Back is supposed to get his arms in JPP's chest and hit him. Didn't happen

pbmax
11-18-2013, 09:20 PM
No sure if this was notd, but NFL network was discussing that pick and noted after the game JPP noted based on the formation the Packers lined up in and his study he knew the play was coming.

That is telling

With that being said, I'm sure if JPP takes a couple steps back instead of rushing, Back is supposed to get his arms in JPP's chest and hit him. Didn't happen

Yes, but Matthews did the same thing twice. Its not that hard to read if you know what to look for. Catching it is impressive.

But as this game demonstrated, its happened before. There has to be a check on it part of the play. Or the QB has to know to just heave it OOB.

Joemailman
11-18-2013, 09:20 PM
what i see from that picture is just a total fuck up by two guys. why isn't tramon trying to cover #80 and why is burnett trying to get to 80 when he should clearly be covering 88

either both these guys just screwed up really bad on the same play, or our scheme is fucking stupid

Looks to me like Burnett sees 80 open and is coming up to cover him when he runs into Tramon. Hard to figure out where Tramon is going on that play.

pbmax
11-18-2013, 09:21 PM
I am assuming Tramon either got turned around by a fake from Cruz or he bailed on the coverage reading that Maning was going to the seam route.

Burnett is a mystery unless he is looking for buried treasure.

ThunderDan
11-18-2013, 09:26 PM
Yes, but Matthews did the same thing twice. Its not that hard to read if you know what to look for. Catching it is impressive.

But as this game demonstrated, its happened before. There has to be a check on it part of the play. Or the QB has to know to just heave it OOB.
MM said Tolzien checked to that play pre-snap and it was a complete mistake. MM said JPP wasn't even in a 3 point stance pre-snap so Tolzien can't check to that play unless JPP is bent over at snap.

Another issue with Arod out.

Patler
11-18-2013, 09:34 PM
See following post.

Patler
11-18-2013, 09:37 PM
http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg




Capers explanation of this play:


On Hakeem Nicks' 35-yard reception, both Tramon Williams and Morgan Burnett were in the vicinity but Nicks broke free. Nicks and Victor Cruz switched lanes on their routes, Capers said, and the two Packers defenders both went to cover Cruz underneath. The coach said the players are instructed to communicate who has who before the snap. Standing next to each other, that didn't happen here.

"That’s one thing about this game," Capers said, "you emphasize it day in and day out and you get out there in the heat of the battle and we’ve got not only verbal communication but hand signals."

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html#ixzz2l3hmxghT
Follow us: @NewsHub on Twitter

red
11-18-2013, 09:40 PM
http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg

He had Burnett blanketed on this play.

the more i look at and think about the picture, the more baffled i am

you have one giant streaking down the numbers, the other one is cutting in hard towards the numbers.

BOTH our guys are covering the sideline. neither of our guys is anywhere close to being in a position to cover either of the two giants

this picture sums up our season. it is the ultimate description of our defense this year

this picture is worth a thousand words

TT and M3 could just print out this picture, hand it to capers, and without any words being said, capers should just go clear out his shit and leave the building

Freak Out
11-18-2013, 11:08 PM
Now that is ugly. Square dancing DBs.....how in the hell do we end up with this shit?

mission
11-18-2013, 11:20 PM
the more i look at and think about the picture, the more baffled i am

you have one giant streaking down the numbers, the other one is cutting in hard towards the numbers.

BOTH our guys are covering the sideline. neither of our guys is anywhere close to being in a position to cover either of the two giants

this picture sums up our season. it is the ultimate description of our defense this year

this picture is worth a thousand words

TT and M3 could just print out this picture, hand it to capers, and without any words being said, capers should just go clear out his shit and leave the building

+1

cheesner
11-19-2013, 12:37 AM
I was hoping that picture was a photoshop job to make Capers look like an idiot. Guess it ain't. Wish I was better at PS. I would add another Packer or two with their head up their butt.


http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/6/4/1/5/8/7/head-52171295154.jpeg

denverYooper
11-19-2013, 08:39 AM
Yes, but Matthews did the same thing twice. Its not that hard to read if you know what to look for. Catching it is impressive.

But as this game demonstrated, its happened before. There has to be a check on it part of the play. Or the QB has to know to just heave it OOB.

Matthews might have caught one if he was sans cast. He's done it before for a pick 6 (was it against Eli in 2011 regular season?).

denverYooper
11-19-2013, 08:55 AM
Capers explanation of this play:

Clickable headline: Capers throws secondary under the bus.

Probable actual intent: call those guys out for a real mistake in hopes they don't make it again.

woodbuck27
11-19-2013, 09:02 AM
Capers explanation of this play:


http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRp67ffavxfof8MrQImKrWMEkP2c48KS tulRRRPKoadsxSOFOK8XQ

The Williams/Burnett Country Boogie. The latest dance craze.

woodbuck27
11-19-2013, 09:06 AM
Now that is ugly. Square dancing DBs.....how in the hell do we end up with this shit?

and really embarrassing.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQF34ZhpuwQBwvxAu-XFwdo5bLE2AMZhen1FJUIMCgc94MIlXZH

The Green Bay Packers secondary. . . in step with Dom Capers

pbmax
11-19-2013, 09:12 AM
Capers explanation of this play:


On Hakeem Nicks' 35-yard reception, both Tramon Williams and Morgan Burnett were in the vicinity but Nicks broke free. Nicks and Victor Cruz switched lanes on their routes, Capers said, and the two Packers defenders both went to cover Cruz underneath. The coach said the players are instructed to communicate who has who before the snap. Standing next to each other, that didn't happen here.

"That’s one thing about this game," Capers said, "you emphasize it day in and day out and you get out there in the heat of the battle and we’ve got not only verbal communication but hand signals."

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports...#ixzz2l3hmxghT
Follow us: @NewsHub on Twitter


See, that is on the players and then their position coach. Its also a sign of a lack of depth.

If you cannot do that after playing together for 4 bleeping years, you should not be starting. Its as bad as a fumble for the defense.

woodbuck27
11-19-2013, 09:13 AM
the more i look at and think about the picture, the more baffled i am

you have one giant streaking down the numbers, the other one is cutting in hard towards the numbers.

BOTH our guys are covering the sideline. neither of our guys is anywhere close to being in a position to cover either of the two giants

this picture sums up our season. it is the ultimate description of our defense this year

this picture is worth a thousand words

TT and M3 could just print out this picture, hand it to capers, and without any words being said, capers should just go clear out his shit and leave the building

http://i.imgur.com/VxXwpzu.jpg

Two of the NFL players in that photo are in immediate need of an eye correction intervention.

Challenge:

Can you identify which two?

Hint:

They aren't involved in the play.

They aren't on the New York Giants roster.

pbmax
11-19-2013, 09:15 AM
And here was Randle's long catch on Hyde: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-knows-injury-risks-b99145083z1-232449291.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz2l6YZO3Me


One was Rueben Randle's 26-yard touchdown catch in which nickel back Micah Hyde covered the right guy but played a zone technique instead of a man technique and got turned in the wrong direction.

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-knows-injury-risks-b99145083z1-232449291.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz2l6YZO3Me
Follow us: @NewsHub on Twitter

I would like to point out to Spoon that this is not a problem with a switch route but a problem with knowing the play call. Unless a switch route changes the call. Either way, he HAS to know this before hand.

pbmax
11-19-2013, 09:51 AM
Here is the change that Shields being unavailable produced:


Capers also acknowledged that his plan was to play Shields and Davon House outside with Williams inside in the nickel on first and second downs, then use rookie Micah Hyde inside in the nickel on third downs with Williams moving back outside. Without Shields, who was inactive with a hamstring injury that he suffered Thursday and caused him to miss practice Friday, Williams played outside all game, Hyde was the nickel and special teams ace Jarrett Bush was pressed into service in the dime.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&id=11441&is_corp=1

Essentially, it put Hyde on Cobb a lot.

denverYooper
11-19-2013, 12:27 PM
See, that is on the players and then their position coach. Its also a sign of a lack of depth.

If you cannot do that after playing together for 4 bleeping years, you should not be starting. Its as bad as a fumble for the defense.

Is that on Burnett or Tramon? Generally the Safety (and Burnett in particular) is more of the QB there, but Tramon should be veteran enough to know when he doesn't have the information.

Of course, another problem was that Tramon was shifted to a different duty late in the week.

This brings up another question I've been mulling over: why is Tramon the only one who gets his hands on the ball? Is he freelancing at the expense of the D as a whole? Or just better at knowing when and where he can try to make a play? I don't really know, but at this point I don't see them cutting him next year, because he's one of the guys in the secondary that seems to be able to make impact plays.

pbmax
11-19-2013, 02:30 PM
I would suspect like a basketball coach you have rules for dealing with a pick/switch by receivers.

In this case, I would expect the coaches to want the better deep defender on Hicks and a better cover person on Cruz. If TWill wasn't in on those discussions, that would explain the confusion.

Doesn't explain why two vets don't declare at the LOS.

denverYooper
11-19-2013, 03:31 PM
Football Outsiders Quick Reads (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2013/week-11-quick-reads) has Tolzien above Manning as measured by DYAR.

17. Scott Tolzien GB 35 DYAR.

One of the better zero-touchdown, three-interception games you'll ever see. Tolzien completed 10 passes that gained at least 15 yards and averaged 10.6 yards per passing play, both second among starters this week, to Matt Stafford (11) and Russell Wilson (12.4), respectively. Stafford, by the way, had 16 more plays than Tolzien did.

25.
Eli Manning NYG -49 DYAR
After Brandon Jacobs' goal-line touchdown put the Giants up 20-6 late in the third quarter, Manning went into a deep freeze. From that point forward, over three drives, Manning went 2-of-3 for 21 yards with no first downs, plus three sacks.

run pMc
11-19-2013, 04:01 PM
DYAR is nice, but Manning didn't throw a pick-six and another pick after that to seal the game. For once.

bobblehead
11-19-2013, 04:42 PM
Its got to be Burnett in the wrong place. As safety you would think he is starting deep. Two, the inside guy is wide open and deeper than Cruz.

But why Burnett is in an empty space is beyond me. Maybe he was trying to avoid Williams?

That was my hunch. Unless we had a coverage called that is foreign to me, I would say the S had the inside guy when they are that close to the sideline.

bobblehead
11-19-2013, 04:44 PM
He's Getting Close!

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 1h
MM says Sherrrod had excellent week. "Huge step" at Thurs. padded practice. Stops short of saying he's ready to play.

Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 1h
MM: Barclay was delcared out Friday afternoon. I can't tell you how close he is. Sherrod had excellent week of practice. Huge step.

I am on the cut marshmellow bandwagon. I haven't seen anyone whiff like him since Babre....before that I have to go with Gorman Thomas, but at least he jacked on now and again.

pbmax
11-19-2013, 06:06 PM
That was my hunch. Unless we had a coverage called that is foreign to me, I would say the S had the inside guy when they are that close to the sideline.

Capers said that they both followed the same player on a switch route from Cruz and Nicks. Failure of communication, either hand signal or verbal call.

So looks like Williams is trying to come off Cruz and get back to Nicks. But I haven't seen the start of the play on replay yet.