More Banjo: vs. Vikings Aftermath

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 17m
Asthma is what drove Eddie Lacy to the locker room late

Sean Richardson was playing safety late in the game. Might need to rename this thread.

[bobblehead]

Of all my young up and coming players to come through its the guy who I thought might never play again.

[pbmax]

Stats guys say Packers should have gone for it on 4th and 2 in OT. Gain a 10% advantage in likelihood of winning game even if you turn it over on downs.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/11/mccarthy-makes-new-ot-mistake.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Go for it: win percentage is 89.2%

Kick a FG: WP is 79.0%

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Stats guys say Packers should have gone for it on 4th and 2 in OT. Gain a 10% advantage in likelihood of winning game even if you turn it over on downs.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/11/mccarthy-makes-new-ot-mistake.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Go for it: win percentage is 89.2%

Kick a FG: WP is 79.0%

At the time, I was thinking same thing, go for the win, but then you feel like an assclown if they don't make it.

[bobblehead]

Stats guys say Packers should have gone for it on 4th and 2 in OT. Gain a 10% advantage in likelihood of winning game even if you turn it over on downs.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/11/mccarthy-makes-new-ot-mistake.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Go for it: win percentage is 89.2%

Kick a FG: WP is 79.0%

Hadn't we held them scoreless for the entire second half prior to that? I guess that would be the argument for giving it to them at that field position as well though.

[pbmax]

At the time, I was thinking same thing, go for the win, but then you feel like an assclown if they don't make it.

Yeah but you have them pinned. If D gets a reasonable stop (not easy, but having them on the 2 helps), its a short distance to a FG for the win.

[Teamcheez1]

I felt like MM was very tentative in the red zone, both at the end of regulation, and in OT. This team is in desperate need of a win, and he plays it as if he is oblivious to the current circumstances. He is going to catch holy hell when this team doesn't make the playoffs.

[red]

I felt like MM was very tentative in the red zone, both at the end of regulation, and in OT. This team is in desperate need of a win, and he plays it as if he is oblivious to the current circumstances. He is going to catch holy hell when this team doesn't make the playoffs.

that kind of ticked me off too, 2 runs up the gut from the 6? sure, lacy had the hot hand, but shit changes in the redzone

[pittstang5]

I felt like MM was very tentative in the red zone, both at the end of regulation, and in OT. This team is in desperate need of a win, and he plays it as if he is oblivious to the current circumstances. He is going to catch holy hell when this team doesn't make the playoffs.

He's been so predictable too. Run up the middle, run up the middle, pass. I was screaming for play action on 2nd down in OT.

[pbmax]

Predictable at the end of regulation I understand. He wanted to burn clock as well as have the option to kick for 3.

[denverYooper]

FWIW, Ben Fennell of NFL Films has been working on a theory about the Packers D--that they use too many different players, making it hard for them to find any consistency.

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 36m
Quick rundown of #Packers defensive participation..21 different defensive players used for Green Bay-and thats without Shields, Jolly, Perry

[denverYooper]

File this one under "the other guys get paid too"

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 19m
These #Vikings WRs made some tough catches for Ponder.. Simpson and especially Patterson.

[denverYooper]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 8m
#Packers Brad Jones sack saved Burnett.. Lost in coverage. TE Ford wide open down seam with free safety rolling away

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZ7P3nLCIAAhMXm.jpg:large

[denverYooper]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 40s
#Packers most successful on 3rddown relying on cov/pass rush 1on1s. Here Daniels on edge/Neal at 3tech. Datone spying

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZ7U6FmCcAA2hl5.jpg:large

[woodbuck27]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 8m
#Packers Brad Jones sack saved Burnett.. Lost in coverage. TE Ford wide open down seam with free safety rolling away

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZ7P3nLCIAAhMXm.jpg:large

Yea I recall ILB Brad Jones coming up huge on that play.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

FWIW, Ben Fennell of NFL Films has been working on a theory about the Packers D--that they use too many different players, making it hard for them to find any consistency.

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 36m
Quick rundown of #Packers defensive participation..21 different defensive players used for Green Bay-and thats without Shields, Jolly, Perry

Yea...maybe the Packer players can simply get into better condition.

Garner more proper pride in their ability and dedication towords playing better!?

[woodbuck27]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 40s
#Packers most successful on 3rddown relying on cov/pass rush 1on1s. Here Daniels on edge/Neal at 3tech. Datone spying

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZ7U6FmCcAA2hl5.jpg:large

Overall the Packers 3rd down success could hardly be called a success.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013112403/2013/REG12/vikings@packers#tab=analyze&analyze=boxscore


Packers Third Down Efficiency in the Home to Vikings game was 3/16 = 18%.

That's not good.


PACKERS !

[denverYooper]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 8m
#Packers DT Jerel Worthy season debut yesterday..9/80 snaps. Another athletic dlineman to work in rotation but needs better technique v. run

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 1m
#Packers Datone Jones (@IAM_Dat_One)- 22/80 snaps v.MIN..17 snaps at 3tech. Primarily QB spy on 3rd down.. Athleticism kept Ponder contained

[denverYooper]

Overall the Packers 3rd down success could hardly be called a success.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013112403/2013/REG12/vikings@packers#tab=analyze&analyze=boxscore


Packers Third Down Efficiency in the Home to Vikings game was 3/16 = 18%.

That's not good.


PACKERS !

Vikings were 6/16 on 3rd down (38%).

But I think what Fennell means is that the Packers D was generally successful on 3rd downs when they had a 4 man rush and let guys try to win their one on ones... as opposed to rushing 3 and playing coverage or bringing extra rushers.

[woodbuck27]

Vikings were 6/16 on 3rd down (38%).

But I think what Fennell means is that the Packers D was generally successful on 3rd downs when they had a 4 man rush and let guys try to win their one on ones... as opposed to rushing 3 and playing coverage or bringing extra rushers.

Yes THANKS...I got that.

[pbmax]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 8m
#Packers Brad Jones sack saved Burnett.. Lost in coverage. TE Ford wide open down seam with free safety rolling away

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZ7P3nLCIAAhMXm.jpg:large

Are we sure that is Burnett deep?

Who is in coverage on Ford? I would expect Burnett there unless there is only ONE safety on the field and that is Hyde in coverage on Ford.

[Bossman641]

Shit, were we really 3/16 on third downs. I realized it was bad but didn't realize it was that bad.

It's been a problem ever since Rodgers last game. Last game he played, against Minn - 13/18.
Since then, 1/9 vs Chicago, 7/16 vs Philly, 2/8 at NYG, 3/16 vs Minn.
13/49 = 26.5%, which would rank last in the league

[denverYooper]

Are we sure that is Burnett deep?

Who is in coverage on Ford? I would expect Burnett there unless there is only ONE safety on the field and that is Hyde in coverage on Ford.

I don't have a DVR or Game Rewind. I'm just taking his word for it.

Funny enough, I told myself that when I changed jobs in September that I'd pay to get Game Rewind because I could afford it. But then I still couldn't bring myself to justify the purchase at this point in my life.

[denverYooper]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 50m
#Packers SS Sean Richardson season debut, played 11/80 uneventful snaps v. MIN - all 2nd half.. Biggest safety on team - 6'2, 216lbs..

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 31m
Observations after watching #Packers defense.. the only CB that likes to be physical and use hands is Davon House. Too much soft coverage..

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 30m
And again.. TE/FB/H-Back/Swiss army knife Rhett Ellison had the game of his life.

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 27m
#Packers try to 'press w/ your eyes' too often..Unless your Revis-very difficult to master. Must get hands on & disrupt timing. WRs too good

[woodbuck27]

Are we sure that is Burnett deep?

Who is in coverage on Ford? I would expect Burnett there unless there is only ONE safety on the field and that is Hyde in coverage on Ford.


The answer in your query pbmax is in the socks:

the Brad Jones SACK was with 5:06 remaining in the 2nd Qtr. My recording is of FOX game coverage and they didn't show that play with an over the toop shot. Their camera focus was on the LOS.

Looking at the Pic...clearly :

NO. 38 CB Tramon Williams is in coverage at the Top Center of the Pic.

NO. 31 CB Davon House is laying back near the 10 yard marker at the bottom LHS of the Pic. He wears his white ankle socks high on his ankle like SS

Who is that on the LHS Center playing back on the 5 yard line? He's wearing his white ankle socks... low on his ankle. Isn't that FS M. D. Jennings? He wears his white ankle socks low on his ankles. It might also be Micah Hyde who wears his white ankle socks low on his ankle.

In any case that narrows it down:

The DB that is losing in man-man coverage with the Vikings NO. 86 or TE Chase Ford is the other safety or SS Morgan Burnett. It's my observation that he wears his white ankle socks high on his ankles. The Packer DB that is getting beat in the coverage of TE Chase Ford wears his white ankle socks high on his ankle.

So I believe your suspicion is true pbmax.

In my analysis I suspect that's SS Morgan Burnett getting beat to the inside by the Vikings TE, NO. 86 Chase Ford. Morgan Burnett was on the field defending during that Viking offensive series.


Packers !

[Zool]

Are we sure that is Burnett deep?

Who is in coverage on Ford? I would expect Burnett there unless there is only ONE safety on the field and that is Hyde in coverage on Ford.

There are dreads or a neck growth on the deep S. That's not Burnett.

[woodbuck27]

There are dreads or a neck growth on the deep S. That's not Burnett.

Eyes of an eagle.

Micah Hyde = No dreads and low white ankle socks.

M. D. Jennings = dreads and low white ankle socks.

That leaves high ankle socks and likely SS Morgan Burnett as the DB being shaken by NO. 86 ... Vikings TE Chase Ford.

Boolean algebra is winning.

[denverYooper]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 14m
#Packers clearly dead last in kick off returns but wow - there is just some terrible blocking... Not a seam, a crease, an alley.

[woodbuck27]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 14m
#Packers clearly dead last in kick off returns but wow - there is just some terrible blocking... Not a seam, a crease, an alley.

OK then..... we cannot stand this overall mess on ST's anymore.

Please...just fire that 'slocum' of a ST's coach.

I must be the last member of Packerrats to come out and need that to happen.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 32m
For those demanding Capers blitz more ... RT @MNBrianHall: Per @PFF, when #Packers blitzed, Ponder was 12/15, 169 yards, TD. (135.8 rating).


Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 22m
@jasonjwilde @MNBrianHall @PFF #Packers sent six on the Ponder deep pass over Williams to Simpson. Ponder had all day.

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 35m
MM: Watched it this morning with defensive staff, go through every call. Like teaching ability. We're going to talk preparation/execution

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 35m
MM asked about Capers/defense: "It's a very talented, organized staff." Likes teaching ability but "we need to play better."

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 35m
MM: I'm very comfortable with our coaching staff.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 35m
says coaching staff is one of the "strengths of our program."

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 36m
McCarthy on run D: Time and time again we had excellent leverage but we didn't finish the play. We didn't do a good job finishing.

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 36m
MM: It felt like we lost the game. I think that gave us both an opportunity to win the game and neither one took advantage of it

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 36m
McCarthy-(run defense) We're in a valley right now & we need to get out of it. Time & again we had excellent leverage & didn't complete play

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 37m
MM on OT/4th down: I thought about running it on third and fourth down. ...You have to ultimately attack the end zone, why we passed.

Ultimately decided:
Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 37m
MM: You have to kick the field goal there. In a four-down mindset, would have ran it on third down.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 37m
McCarthy says the preparation by defensive coaches, including Capers, is excellent. "We need to PLAY BETTER." #Packers

[red]

well that clinches it for me. if MM thinks the coaching staff is one of the strengths of this team, then his ass is on the hot seat and if we miss the playoffs he can go

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I have never liked MM as a coach, but I don't think he is stupid, he must clearly see the limitations of certain parts of the coaching staff, but what is he supposed to say to a question like that in a press meeting, "Yes, our coaching staff smells like ass, and several will be fired before end of the season'.

[Pugger]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 17m
Asthma is what drove Eddie Lacy to the locker room late

Sean Richardson was playing safety late in the game. Might need to rename this thread.

How did Richardson look in there yesterday?

[woodbuck27]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 35m
MM: Watched it this morning with defensive staff, go through every call. Like teaching ability. We're going to talk preparation/execution

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 35m
MM asked about Capers/defense: "It's a very talented, organized staff." Likes teaching ability but "we need to play better."

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 35m
MM: I'm very comfortable with our coaching staff.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 35m
says coaching staff is one of the "strengths of our program."

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 36m
McCarthy on run D: Time and time again we had excellent leverage but we didn't finish the play. We didn't do a good job finishing.

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 36m
MM: It felt like we lost the game. I think that gave us both an opportunity to win the game and neither one took advantage of it

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 36m
McCarthy-(run defense) We're in a valley right now & we need to get out of it. Time & again we had excellent leverage & didn't complete play

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 37m
MM on OT/4th down: I thought about running it on third and fourth down. ...You have to ultimately attack the end zone, why we passed.

Ultimately decided:
Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 37m
MM: You have to kick the field goal there. In a four-down mindset, would have ran it on third down.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 37m
McCarthy says the preparation by defensive coaches, including Capers, is excellent. "We need to PLAY BETTER." #Packers

I hope that the Packer players don't read this CRAP.

MM puts it all on the players.

His coaching staff deserves roses. He gives them roses.

[denverYooper]

I don't think he is stupid, he must clearly see the limitations of certain parts of the coaching staff, but what is he supposed to say to a question like that in a press meeting, "Yes, our coaching staff smells like ass, and several will be fired before end of the season'.

This.

What the hell else is he going to do? If he were going to do anything, it wouldn't start with throwing them under the bus in a press conference.

[Pugger]

Ben Fennell ‏@TheXOsOfLife 14m
#Packers clearly dead last in kick off returns but wow - there is just some terrible blocking... Not a seam, a crease, an alley.

I truly believe our ST kick coverage is suffering because a lot of the guys who would normally be on ST are starting instead for injured starters, esp on D.

[Pugger]

well that clinches it for me. if MM thinks the coaching staff is one of the strengths of this team, then his ass is on the hot seat and if we miss the playoffs he can go

MM isn't going to throw his coaches under the bus to the press.

[woodbuck27]

MM isn't going to throw his coaches under the bus to the press.

Well he didn't...he chose the teams players instead.

He might rather have said...'We all need to work harder and see results as a team'.

If MM loses his dressing room like NHL HC's do when they lose the players respect. He'll have to be FIRED if the GM has any sense.

A HC cannot lose the respect of those that actually can win games for him.

His players.

GO PACKERS !

[red]

This.

What the hell else is he going to do? If he were going to do anything, it wouldn't start with throwing them under the bus in a press conference.

but he's fine throwing all his players under the bus?

there has been a massive problem with the special teams for a few years now. the defense has been nosediving for at least 2 years if not 3 and the o-line has been shit for a while

these problems have been glaring no matter who the players are that come and go. these are coaching problems, and M3 has failed to address those problems for 2 or 3 years now. its obvious to me that he thinks his coaches are just fine and that they just need to fix a few things

i DO NOT think M3 is smart, i think that he thinks he's smart when in fact he is dumb as shit. he is a very far cry from a guy like hoodie, who actually is a smart coach.

m3 has had 2 things that have made him a successful coach

1. Brett Favre
2. Aaron Rodgers

if not for those two, m3 would be on the same career trajectory as m2

[pbmax]

I hope that the Packer players don't read this CRAP.

MM puts it all on the players.

His coaching staff deserves roses. He gives them roses.

I hope they read it because they played terribly. Embarrassingly.

[pbmax]

but he's fine throwing all his players under the bus?

there has been a massive problem with the special teams for a few years now. the defense has been nosediving for at least 2 years if not 3 and the o-line has been shit for a while

these problems have been glaring no matter who the players are that come and go. these are coaching problems, and M3 has failed to address those problems for 2 or 3 years now. its obvious to me that he thinks his coaches are just fine and that they just need to fix a few things

i DO NOT think M3 is smart, i think that he thinks he's smart when in fact he is dumb as shit. he is a very far cry from a guy like hoodie, who actually is a smart coach.

m3 has had 2 things that have made him a successful coach

1. Brett Favre
2. Aaron Rodgers

if not for those two, m3 would be on the same career trajectory as m2

How would Holmgren and Sherman fared with Majik and Peterson respectively? The defense that Holmgren left to Rhodes and Shurmur carried his team until 1997.

[pbmax]

The important question isn't what he tells the press. Its figuring out why the message is not being received by the troops.

[woodbuck27]

I hope they read it because they played terribly. Embarrassingly.

No pbmax I cannot agree with you here.

MM keeps that crap in the dressing room ... at closed meetings at closed practises.

He doesn't air that crap out to the media where the public, and well anyone, can read it. That's simply classless crap that can only cause him to lose the respect of his players. To lay it all at the feet of the players who have to, as a bottom line, get it done. Get it done out of pride and respect for their HC and coaching staff.

To throw the players under the bus isn't in my experience observing Pro sports teams ... a smart policy.

MM as a primary function of being the HC must motivate and maintain morale in the locker room.

You don't get there dissing the players and stroking the coaching staff.

Everyone must learn to accept the blame. Coach's and players.

[pbmax]

And to maintain morale in the locker room he cannot have his players believing his D coaches are about to be replaced. He was asked if he still had faith in the D coaches. He placed no one above reproach but said he believed in the coaches and the scheme.

He said they have to play it better. No player was mentioned by name. Its obvious they the individuals heard far more specific and worse castigations in their meetings this week.

He let nothing out of the bag that wasn't visible on Sunday. He only quashed public cries for someone's head.

[red]

How would Holmgren and Sherman fared with Majik and Peterson respectively? The defense that Holmgren left to Rhodes and Shurmur carried his team until 1997.

thats what i'm saying. sherman would not have done shit if he didn't have favre. he won a lot of games and people threw a fit when we canned him because they thought we won because of him. i disagreed. like m3, i think we win in spite of them. what did sherman do after he lost favre? he had a couple shitty seasons in texas then got canned, the he went to the college ranks and had a couple shitty years there, and got canned. now he's o-coord for the dolphins when the whole world knows philbin is the one running that offense.

he was a shitty head coach, i think m3 is the same

holmgren is a different story, he has had some success after favre

[George Cumby]

M3 is nothing if not discrete. Remember the season before Vanilla Bob got the chop? Iirc, Chubby didn't say anything that told us he was going to take action. Criticizing the coaches would lead to greater discipline issues within the locker room. M3's strength as a head coach is his even handed approach.

The criticism "we have to play better" is accurate, all encompassing and doesn't single anyone out. Again, a solid, measured approach.

M3's game time decisions are another issue. He is a good coach, but, like his team, he is flawed.

All that being said, Capers needs to be fired after the season and the S & C staff as well.