A Novel Theory On JFK’s Death: It Was An Accident

[woodbuck27]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bml/the-godfather-of-sabermetrics-has-a-novel-theory-on-jfks-dea

The Godfather Of Sabermetrics Has A Novel Theory On JFK’s Death: It Was An Accident

Wait! Hear Bill James out.

" More to the point, Bonar Menninger and Howard Donahue have the theory, which is laid out in Menninger’s book Mortal Error. James enthusiastically endorses the theory in his own book Popular Crime. (Popular Crime, James’ obsessive study of pretty much every notorious American criminal case of the last three hundred or so years, is highly recommended.) "

[red]

i've actually heard that theory before, i guess it could have happened

but i think the chances of the gun going off on accident (in a trained mans hands), traveling that distance, and hitting the most important man in the world square in the back of the head is pretty slim

[Joemailman]

There's probably nothing we need more than another JFK assassination theory.

[red]

There's probably nothing we need more than another JFK assassination theory.

i personally think we don't have enough McKinley assassination theories

[woodbuck27]

i've actually heard that theory before, i guess it could have happened

but i think the chances of the gun going off on accident (in a trained mans hands), traveling that distance, and hitting the most important man in the world square in the back of the head is pretty slim

His minds eye and reaction as soon as he realizes that his gun discharged in the direction of the Presidents Limo ...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0eBV9k8El6nasygCqKfJ9Aq2SgLuBH ucvpawUcvSTGIaSTV6T

Holy CRAP !

[LEWCWA]

This is a good theory in my opinion, They have pretty much proven that a bullet from Oswald rifle could blow through two bodies and be in good condition as it was a full metal jacket bullet. My question is why would the head shot bullet then explode in his head? It too should blow through the head and cause other damage....this isn't the case. The ammo used in the ar-15 that the SS was carrying use a hollow point bullet that is designed to do just what this bullet did. The head shot did not come from Oswalds rifle!

[sooner6600]

It came from George Bush on the grassy knoll.

[red]

This is a good theory in my opinion, They have pretty much proven that a bullet from Oswald rifle could blow through two bodies and be in good condition as it was a full metal jacket bullet. My question is why would the head shot bullet then explode in his head? It too should blow through the head and cause other damage....this isn't the case. The ammo used in the ar-15 that the SS was carrying use a hollow point bullet that is designed to do just what this bullet did. The head shot did not come from Oswalds rifle!

Huh, never thougt of that

Good point

[woodbuck27]

This is a good theory in my opinion, They have pretty much proven that a bullet from Oswald rifle could blow through two bodies and be in good condition as it was a full metal jacket bullet. My question is why would the head shot bullet then explode in his head? It too should blow through the head and cause other damage....this isn't the case. The ammo used in the ar-15 that the SS was carrying use a hollow point bullet that is designed to do just what this bullet did. The head shot did not come from Oswalds rifle!

I took this on for about a year back about 1994-95 and I read everything I could find on the JFK assignation

I came to the conclusion that for sure Oswald wasn't the lone shooter ..if he was 'a shooter'... at all.

My theory as I got through it all was that ....JFK was assinated by....that's for me to think I know...

I tried to figure it out and wan't successful besides a logical theory based in his life and after hours...hint. :-)

[LEWCWA]

I took this on for about a year back about 1994-95 and I read everything I could find on the JFK assignation

I came to the conclusion that for sure Oswald wasn't the lone shooter ..if he was 'a shooter'... at all.

My theory as I got through it all was that ....JFK was assinated by....that's for me to think I know...

I tried to figure it out and wan't successful besides a logical theory based in his life and after hours...hint. :-)

What?

[gbgary]

lol...an accident...lol. omg never heard that one before...lol.

[woodbuck27]

What?

sorry I'll clean that up some:

I tried to figure it out and wasn't successful. Until I looked at a logical theory based on JFK's personal/private life and what he did with his 'free time' and after normal working hours...hint.

I believe that JFK pissed off the wrong people to piss off. That cost him his life. It's just my feelings (theory) and I don't really know.

[LEWCWA]

Man Wood if your going to participate, throw you belief against the wall and see how much sticks. Whats this thats for me to think I know? Just come out with it.....Eveyone seems to have been thrown out there, so no sense keeping your conclusion a secret.

[woodbuck27]

Man Wood if your going to participate, throw you belief against the wall and see how much sticks. Whats this thats for me to think I know? Just come out with it.....Eveyone seems to have been thrown out there, so no sense keeping your conclusion a secret.

Hey if we were two Canadians... that conversation would go down easily.

I'm not comfortable discussing anything even remotely political here LEWCWA.

As to participating. I believe I get there most certainly at Packerrats.

In this case and topic the "little guy on my shoulder" is screaming at me...they can't handle what you believe. They can't handle what your theory is because (just maybe?) their too sensitive to such stuff.

There's also this. You let the dead simply be that, or gone; with all their secrets in the grave.

Simply Look at my previous posts... and open your mind. READ what I wrote and you'll see it. If you have difficulty with that ...let it go. I don't know you well enough to bare my soul to you man.

Besides if you read my posts you'll surely get a strong hint to my theory.

I already informed the forum. I've read lots on JFK and his life and death related material.

It's not exactly anything like trying to discover Captain Kidd's Treasure.

OK...and if you take me to any place even marginally away from sincere respect...

No. It's not my place and YOU.

OK...

Here's some questions just for you and I do not want an open response from you. This is merely for you LEWCWA and a thought provoking exercise.

Have you ever asked yourself?

a) What was that stuff and the three bums hurrying away from the proximity of the scene?

b) Why in blazes would Jack Ruby want to think about, plan and actually decide to bump Lee Harvey Oswald?

c) What do you know of the life of Jack Ruby?

[LEWCWA]

Who couldn't handle your theory. There are tons of theories out there and just about anybody who is anybody has been indicted in someone's theory. WE CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH,lol......

[LEWCWA]

The reason I like this theory is that it fits. The weapon was there, testimony is there concerning that weapon being fired, the head damage fits the ammo, helps explain how you get alot of people to buy into a coverup. Oswald was there shooting, but I believe he only shot 2x and didn't succeed. Now the conspiracy behind the attempt is still wide open for me......

[LEWCWA]

obviously he pissed off the wrong people. It seems everyone had a reason for wanting him dead!

[LEWCWA]

I just asked for your opinion, because this intrigues me. I have read quite a bit on it and have a basic working knowledge of alot of the things out there. Thing is nothing would suprise me!

[woodbuck27]

Who couldn't handle your theory. There are tons of theories out there and just about anybody who is anybody has been indicted in someone's theory. WE CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH,lol......

OK great then Mate.

What have you got from my questions of last night?

I just happen to be over here and enjoying some of the music posted by members.

I'm glad I caught you.

[woodbuck27]

I just asked for your opinion, because this intrigues me. I have read quite a bit on it and have a basic working knowledge of alot of the things out there. Thing is nothing would suprise me!

OK the do you want to fly with a discussion and this?

Did you think about my ?'s to you RE:

a) The three bum's (or hobo's) seen behind the grassy knoll.

b) The two questions RE: Jack Ruby?

[woodbuck27]

obviously he pissed off the wrong people. It seems everyone had a reason for wanting him dead!

Yes JFK had enemies.

[LEWCWA]

from what I know the 3 tramps weren't hurrying away from the scene, they were found in a rail car, brought in and released. rumors say they could have been Harrolson, Rodgers and Holt. Also Hunt and Sturgis. I'm not so sure they weren't the people from the official record Abram, Doyle and Gedney (3 transients), but I could be persuaded they were Harrolson, rodgers, and Holt......The thing that gets me is if they were and not detained wouldn't the Dallas Pd have to been involved in the conspiracy already. These were hired gun types and could have been a part of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

[LEWCWA]

what about Ruby. He seems to be a low level thug with loose dealings with org. crime. He seemed to have something to say, but Warren wouldn't bring him to Washington, so he just shut up. On the outside it looks like this guy was a hired gun, but he was just crazy enough to do this shit thinking it would make him a hero.

[woodbuck27]

from what I know the 3 tramps weren't hurrying away from the scene, they were found in a rail car, brought in and released. rumors say they could have been Harrolson, Rodgers and Holt. Also Hunt and Sturgis. I'm not so sure they weren't the people from the official record Abram, Doyle and Gedney (3 transients), but I could be persuaded they were Harrolson, rodgers, and Holt......The thing that gets me is if they were and not detained wouldn't the Dallas Pd have to been involved in the conspiracy already. These were hired gun types and could have been a part of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

OK good. Then you up on that.

What about the actual number of shots fired (witnesses hearing shots...or there being evidence passed in on gun fire ... and from one-two-three or more directions?

What did you determine and that?

[LEWCWA]

In this theory---3 shot would have been fired. I don't think the hsca ever proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were more than 3 shots. Thing is many experts say that Oswald (or whoever was in the sixth floor may have only fired 2 shots) 3 casings were found, but one was not close to the others and many people say that empty casings were kept in the MC rifle when not in use. I believe somebody shot from the sixtlh floor, I believe it is possible that the SS agent rose up with his rifle and when the 2nd shot fired he accidently fired his. This is plausible to me. I also, believe if this happened people would be much more apt to agree to a coverup to keep the prestige of the SS. Most of the other stuff, seems so nefarious to me.....but with humans I don't discount anything. We are a unique breed!

[woodbuck27]

In this theory---3 shot would have been fired. I don't think the hsca ever proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were more than 3 shots. Thing is many experts say that Oswald (or whoever was in the sixth floor may have only fired 2 shots) 3 casings were found, but one was not close to the others and many people say that empty casings were kept in the MC rifle when not in use. I believe somebody shot from the sixtlh floor, I believe it is possible that the SS agent rose up with his rifle and when the 2nd shot fired he accidently fired his. This is plausible to me. I also, believe if this happened people would be much more apt to agree to a coverup to keep the prestige of the SS. Most of the other stuff, seems so nefarious to me.....but with humans I don't discount anything. We are a unique breed!

I poste you last night and then I got busy. I began to review it all again.

About three years ago I came across a book ( **a noval) and after reading it said too myself. There... that's it. That does add up. Often it's the little things and not the huge things that can be the end of anyone.

** I reflected on what the author was saying in this novel (strictly and loosely based on real people and real events. The names weren't changed to protect the characters of real people that lived around and njear President John Fitzerald Kennedy.

Is there anyone on this planet safe from "POWERFUL PEOPLE"; if they decide to eliminate anyone? The proof lending to a "NO" response is JFC and his assassination.

I believe we agreed that JFK had enemies.he had POWERFUL ememies and some of those existed amonst the most powerful institutions in his own country or the US of A.

Looking back on his history. Who were those enemies that he created in his ways /practises?

I'll take a lead in this post and you examine it from a standpoint of agreement or not. That way you and I proceed in some balance with one another.

Today ... I'm more assured of any previous theory on what went down in Dallas on Nov. 22,1963. now and THANKS for this LEWCWA. I'm more assured that my theory does hold water. I believe my theory has a bucket full of the TRUTH minus a cup - three cups. Even the TRUTH the BEST TRUTH isn't always complete.

Enemies of JFK:

The most POWERFUL of POWER GROUPS in the US of A. I'll for our discussion change that to the USA.

JFK the President of the USA had enemies. Enemies at the highest places in your nation.

A) Can you name four (3 or 4 ... more) of JFK's enemies?

B) Did JFK have a pre-occupation with anything that he might have had to hide?

C) Is it possible that there might be a direct link between a possible answer in a response to A) and your response to B)? Maybe? look back on my previous post and a hint... to find a connection.

[woodbuck27]

Incidently the story at the top of this thread. Even if that is TRUTH.

**The kill shot arrived at the RHS of JFK's head, in my research. The Secret Service agent 's rifle even if it did accidently discharge. Would have to send a bullet on it's way to hit the Presidents head and by JFK turning his head about 90 degrees to his RHS ...in a horizontal plane. He would have had to look backwards or for any reason move his RH shoulder and head back towards the direction the motorcade came from.

That ** shot ** was enough to leave JFK mortally wounded.....or:

That wound or bullet entry point was lethal from my determination long ago.

In fact...I have to research all of that again LEWCWA to refresh my memory.

I'm not so much into all the technical stuff. It's my view that distracts from our discussion as to (why? and who? and assassination) of President JFK. This fascinating event has been over the top filled with that ..or tons of falsified stuff and wild goose chase distractions. .

[woodbuck27]

Here's some more questions and information for you LEWCWA:

1. Who is Allen Dulles?

1a) What was Allen Dulles's relationship to JFK when JFK was alive?

1b) Who was the head of the Warren Commission? How many volumes of information does the Warren Report amount to? Does that seem extreme?

1c) Looking at 1a and 1b.....Does that appointment make any sense?

2. Fidel Castro>>> Bay of Pigs >>> CIA >>> Mafia (Sam Giancana of Chicago, Santos Trafficante of Florida and Carlos Marcello of New Orleans). All three hated both Kennedy brothers (JFK and RFK), who threated the mafia's existence >>> Mafia and CIA co-operated in plots to assassinate Fidel Castro >>>That made public in the 1970's during the investigations on intelligence and assassinations.

Sam Giancana's brother Chuck, wrote a bestseller biography on him called "Double Cross".

He explains how 'the Mafia' (Organized Crime) and the CIA were "two sides of the same coin".

In that book it's revealed that Carlos Marcello sent Charles Harrelson, ***one of "the Three Tramps" and a known murderer now doing a life sentence for murdering a judge... had sent him to Dealey Plaza for assignment on Nov. 22, 1963.

***The tallest of the three or the fella in the middle.

Those three Tramps are in front >>> Charles "Frenchie" Rodgers ..CIA and in the middle Charles Harrleson ( The Father of well know actor "Woody Harrelson" )and the older fella in the rear with the hat is supposed to be one ## Chauncey 'Marvin' Holt with known CIA and Mafia connections. (dbl. agent !??)

## This ID bugs me because the 'only ' person I ever see in these Pic's as that last Tramp or older fella wearing a hat is CIA man...E. Howard Hunt.

E. Howard Hunt who operated as a plumber in the Watergate breakin', under the direction of Richard M. Nixon. On that caper E. Howard Hunt worked with a soldier of Fortune and CIA contract man Frank Sturgis.

I'll add three more names:

These were like the Bill Gates of the day back then and Texas Oil Men:

Sid Richardson, Clint Murchison and H.L. Hunt.

Can you connect any of these fellas to any names above them.

That's enough.





Too many names ! :grin:

[digitaldean]

Here's a few answers for you Woody. BTW, I have kind of an interest on all the conspiracy stuff surrounding JFK's death. I was born about an hour before JFK was shot on Nov. 22, 1963. All the actions of the Warren Commission and other people around JFK make it too hard to believe Oswald acted purely by himself. There had to have been other involvement (foreign or domestic) considering the context of the situation and all those with an ax to grind vs. JFK


Here's some more questions and information for you LEWCWA:

1. Who is Allen Dulles? Dulles was the head of the CIA. He was fired by JFK after the Bay of Pigs fiasco

1a) What was Allen Dulles's relationship to JFK when JFK was alive? Dulles had a long, distiguished career in espionage until the f-up for Bay of Pigs

1b) Who was the head of the Warren Commission? How many volumes of information does the Warren Report amount to? Does that seem extreme?Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren. Report was 26 volumes

1c) Looking at 1a and 1b.....Does that appointment make any sense? You know what didn't make any sense? Sealing the evidence files until 2039. I'm sorry, but that just SCREAMS a giant C.Y.A maneuver. ?

2. Fidel Castro>>> Bay of Pigs >>> CIA >>> Mafia (Sam Giancana of Chicago, Santos Trafficante of Florida and Carlos Marcello of New Orleans). All three hated both Kennedy brothers (JFK and RFK), who threated the mafia's existence >>> Mafia and CIA co-operated in plots to assassinate Fidel Castro >>>That made public in the 1970's during the investigations on intelligence and assassinations.

Sam Giancana's brother Chuck, wrote a bestseller biography on him called "Double Cross".

He explains how 'the Mafia' (Organized Crime) and the CIA were "two sides of the same coin".

In that book it's revealed that Carlos Marcello sent Charles Harrelson, ***one of "the Three Tramps" and a known murderer now doing a life sentence for murdering a judge... had sent him to Dealey Plaza for assignment on Nov. 22, 1963.

***The tallest of the three or the fella in the middle.

Those three Tramps are in front >>> Charles "Frenchie" Rodgers ..CIA and in the middle Charles Harrleson ( The Father of well know actor "Woody Harrelson" )and the older fella in the rear with the hat is supposed to be one ## Chauncey 'Marvin' Holt with known CIA and Mafia connections. (dbl. agent !??)

## This ID bugs me because the 'only ' person I ever see in these Pic's as that last Tramp or older fella wearing a hat is CIA man...E. Howard Hunt.

E. Howard Hunt who operated as a plumber in the Watergate breakin', under the direction of Richard M. Nixon. On that caper E. Howard Hunt worked with a soldier of Fortune and CIA contract man Frank Sturgis.

I'll add three more names:

These were like the Bill Gates of the day back then and Texas Oil Men:

Sid Richardson, Clint Murchison and H.L. Hunt.These 3 were considered part of the "BIG 4" oil barons. Rumor had it that these men were tied in with LBJ to assassinate JFK

Can you connect any of these fellas to any names above them.

That's enough.





Too many names ! :grin:

[LEWCWA]

I poste you last night and then I got busy. I began to review it all again.

About three years ago I came across a book ( **a noval) and after reading it said too myself. There... that's it. That does add up. Often it's the little things and not the huge things that can be the end of anyone.

** I reflected on what the author was saying in this novel (strictly and loosely based on real people and real events. The names weren't changed to protect the characters of real people that lived around and njear President John Fitzerald Kennedy.

Is there anyone on this planet safe from "POWERFUL PEOPLE"; if they decide to eliminate anyone? The proof lending to a "NO" response is JFC and his assassination.

I believe we agreed that JFK had enemies.he had POWERFUL ememies and some of those existed amonst the most powerful institutions in his own country or the US of A.

Looking back on his history. Who were those enemies that he created in his ways /practises?

I'll take a lead in this post and you examine it from a standpoint of agreement or not. That way you and I proceed in some balance with one another.

Today ... I'm more assured of any previous theory on what went down in Dallas on Nov. 22,1963. now and THANKS for this LEWCWA. I'm more assured that my theory does hold water. I believe my theory has a bucket full of the TRUTH minus a cup - three cups. Even the TRUTH the BEST TRUTH isn't always complete.

Enemies of JFK:

The most POWERFUL of POWER GROUPS in the US of A. I'll for our discussion change that to the USA.

JFK the President of the USA had enemies. Enemies at the highest places in your nation.

A) Can you name four (3 or 4 ... more) of JFK's enemies?

B) Did JFK have a pre-occupation with anything that he might have had to hide?

C) Is it possible that there might be a direct link between a possible answer in a response to A) and your response to B)? Maybe? look back on my previous post and a hint... to find a connection.


The list of enemies is long lbj, bush family, Hoover, cia folks you mentioned, castro, soviets, etc. This is the thing that really makes this thing murky. With every thing going on at that time, most of these people can be linked in some sort of way. The end of LHO really mucks it up even more. Like you said, why would Ruby shoot this man? It just reeks of underworld hit.

Your second question--I have to assume you are referring to JFK's propensity to be with a myriad of women. I guess those secrets could put him in bad deals with people in the know, but I don't see the link that would make somebody want to kill him. Hard to blackmail a dead man to your benefit.

[woodbuck27]

Here's a few answers for you Woody. BTW, I have kind of an interest on all the conspiracy stuff surrounding JFK's death. I was born about an hour before JFK was shot on Nov. 22, 1963. All the actions of the Warren Commission and other people around JFK make it too hard to believe Oswald acted purely by himself. There had to have been other involvement (foreign or domestic) considering the context of the situation and all those with an ax to grind vs. JFK

Hi Mate welcome to this discussion:

digitaldean...... Your so young. :lol:

So far it's a good one. If we can just have faith that the TROLLS will stay away from it. Then I hope it will be ongoing and interesting. I'll admit something. I don't know anyone here personally. Because of that I felt that maybe this issue which I'm very interested in; may not be one I could broach with Y'all ... without it becoming political.

Personally as a Canadian the direction my search for the TRUTH took me was shocking. I'll also state this and "straight up"; as I feel about it right at this time or posting this response.

The whole thing is worse than sad. I'm reflecting right now on that sadness. I imagine you feel the same. It's not easy to examine with a micro scope approach.

Breaking....

[woodbuck27]

from what I know the 3 tramps weren't hurrying away from the scene, they were found in a rail car, brought in and released. rumors say they could have been Harrolson, Rodgers and Holt. Also Hunt and Sturgis. I'm not so sure they weren't the people from the official record Abram, Doyle and Gedney (3 transients), but I could be persuaded they were Harrolson, rodgers, and Holt......The thing that gets me is if they were and not detained wouldn't the Dallas Pd have to been involved in the conspiracy already. These were hired gun types and could have been a part of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

OK LEWCWA:

Hers's me and "going ALL in".

The evidence today is overwhelmingly pointing to the fact that the so called "Three Tramps are:

as they are walking away from the Texas Book DEpository with the Grassy Knoll to their RHS:

Front : The slightly built man...Charles "Frenchie" Rogers. This is the same man wanted for the murder of his parents known of as the "Icebox Murders". He went missing at that time of the discovery of his parents ...cut up and stored body parts, in a freezer (1965). The presumption is that one of his parents was aware of his participation in the JFK assassination and wanted to take information forward to authorities and ironically as I understand it all that would likely have been a huge error.

Charles "Frenchie" Rogers disappeared and hasn't been heard of since. He'd be at a minimum 80 years old today. In 1963 it's known that he was connected to the CIA. From 1957 forward there is no record of him having an income.

************************************************** *********

** The taller fella is clearly one Charles Voyde Harrelson (July 23, 1938 – March 15, 2007) a known "contract killer" and an American organized crime figure... convicted of assassinating federal judge John H. Wood, Jr. He was the estranged father of actor Woody Harrelson.

Get this: Charles Harrelson was tried for the 1968 murder-for-hire killing of Hearne, Texas resident Sam Degelia, Jr., a grain dealer and father of four who was killed in McAllen, Texas. Pete Scamardo was also tried in the case and found guilty of being an accomplice to the murder. Harrelson's trial ended in a mistrial and Scamardo was sentenced to seven years probation.

Harrelson was tried again in 1973; this time he was found guilty and sentenced to 15 years in prison. Harrelson was granted parole in 1976 and was released from prison in September 1978.

In September 1980, Harrelson surrendered to police after a six-hour standoff in which he was reportedly "high on cocaine". During the standoff, he threatened suicide and stated that he had killed Judge Wood and President John F. Kennedy.

The AP reported that the FBI "apparently discounted any involvement by Harrelson in the Kennedy assassination."

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????

The older man following up in the rear wearing a hat and sorta resembling a TRAMP moreso than the other two...is identified as one... Chauncey Marvin Holt (October 23, 1921—June 28, 1997) ... He's known of as a CIA operative and having strong ties to organized crime (Mafia Crime Boss's)...and he with the others named above was clearly photographed "in Dealey Plaza" about 2-3 hours after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy; or co-horts Charles's Rogers and Harrelson.

Chauncey Holt admitted/reported before his death that he was holed up in a railway boxcar located some mile or more away from Dealey plaza with Charles Rogers and Charles Harrelson and discovered there by police after JFK was assassinated, on Nov. 22, 1963. Chauncey Holt got to being glad to talk-and he said the more publicly the better. ;-)

He was a fool IMO.

Many people in the early years (maybe two decades) after this JFK assassination. Paid a severe price for their shock >>> honesty. It likely with, all the known facts now available, cost them their lives.

[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Note:

See former Dallas Police artist: Lois Gibson Gibson has helped solve scores of cases. Lois Gibson said she'd "bet the farm" on her identifications: Charles V. Harrelson, Charles Rogers and one Chauncey Holt, a self-described forger and career criminal.

[woodbuck27]

The list of enemies is long lbj, bush family, Hoover, cia folks you mentioned, castro, soviets, etc. This is the thing that really makes this thing murky. With every thing going on at that time, most of these people can be linked in some sort of way. The end of LHO really mucks it up even more. Like you said, why would Ruby shoot this man? It just reeks of underworld hit.

Your second question--I have to assume you are referring to JFK's propensity to be with a myriad of women. I guess those secrets could put him in bad deals with people in the know, but I don't see the link that would make somebody want to kill him. Hard to blackmail a dead man to your benefit.

"The list of enemies is long lbj, bush family, Hoover, cia folks you mentioned, castro, soviets, etc. This is the thing that really makes this thing murky.With every thing going on at that time, most of these people can be linked in some sort of way." LEWCWA

Yes they can be LINKED to JFK. They all had something in common or really bad feelings towords at the time of his death The President of the US of A John F. Kennedy.

" The end of LHO really mucks it up even more. Like you said, why would Ruby shoot this man? It just reeks of underworld hit." LEWCWA

Lee Harvey Oswald was controlled by the CIA. He was personally handled on the day of the assassination by a covert CIA agent named David Atlee Phillips. Look for a connection between D L P and one (Howard E. Hunt of Watergate infamy).

" Like you said, why would Ruby shoot this man? It just reeks of underworld hit." LEWCWA

Jack Ruby was well liked and connected to many circles including the most powerful and affluent citizens in Texas (see H.L. Hunt, Sid Richardson,Clint Murchison and Hugh Roy Cullen. Ruby was an acquaintance to the "good Ole Boys". His strip joint/night clubs (ie the Carousel Club) were frequented by members of the Dallas Police Dept. Ruby has been accused of having ties to organized crime.

Why did Jack Ruby get easy access to the Dallas Police Dept. Well the cops were used to seeing him there and he was somewhat like a buddy to many of the police; and as I wrote above, often were using his nightclubs for after hours entertainment. If you look closely at the Lee Harvey Oswald assassination Jack Ruby was almost led in by the hand to that Police headquarters basement to do the dirty deed. Could that have been planned? Security guards were removed from the area of the garage nearest the stairway shortly before the shooting; and that's where it's believed that Ruby entered the basement and congregated with news people, before he stepped forward and fatally shot LHO.

"Your second question--I have to assume you are referring to JFK's propensity to be with a myriad of women. I guess those secrets could put him in bad deals with people in the know, but I don't see the link that would make somebody want to kill him. Hard to blackmail a dead man to your benefit." LEWCWA

This is a maybe that little thing that turned into a tipping point in why someone among so many that hated him would want to take a leading role in seeing JFK's assassination through. It's been rumored that JFK was seriously promiscuous. Jack liked his women and Jack was busy.

One of his women was Marilyn Munroe. JFK and MM had an ongoing relationship/ sexual affair that went on for some time. MM imagined herself as Mrs. John Kennedy or the #2 "First Lady" Mrs. John K. Kennedy. She

Marilyn Munroe officially committed suicide by taking a drug overdose (suppositories up her rectum) sometime late Sunday night August 5,1992 or in the early morning hours of Monday Aug, 6, '62. It's been revealed that the night before she died or Sat. August 4, 1962. Marilyn Munroe was flown in spent the night at the lake Tahoe Resort owned by Frank Sinatra ( at the Cal-Neva Lodge ) in the company of the newest man she was supposedly in love with , Chicago Mob Boss Sam Giancana.

Who was it going to be? JFK or Sam Giancana? With so much for her to LOVE in these two men. Did she commit suicide over the pain of trying to make a decision? With so much to live for as the gal of the most powerful Crime boss in Giancana. That weighed against maybe? ... JFK finally conceding his undying love for her as "the First Lady"... decisions - decisions - decisions...why did she elect to kill herself? Does it seem logical she would suddenly turn away from all her dreams and prospects for the future...... to just "up and off" ... herself?

[woodbuck27]

Back in the early years of the aftermath of the JFK assassination.

Conspiracy Theorists had to really dig.

How would anyone (that's sane) ever imagine that future Presidents of the US of A; the CIA; FBI; Dallas Police and Sheriff's Dept; the richest Men in the USA (The Four Texas Oilmen); the Mafia and players like Jack Ruby and Marilyn Munroe might all play a role in this assassination and massive cover up?

It's just too easy to say it was LHO as the lone gunman. Then the first bits of evidence compromise that as not the TRUTH. The "Zapruder Film" and "the single bullet theory". A pristine bullet lieing next to the remains of JFK at the site of the autopsy. The assassination of LHO just two days after his arrest and initial questioning at a Dallas Police HQ's ! The shooter there being... "come on...Jack Ruby". Who Jack Ruby had connections with !!!

The identity of the Three Tramps ! The fact that they were released so quickly and what ...apprehended together in a railway boxcar...WOW!

People coming forward with information suddenly showing up DEAD. Madness!

It's all so damn crazy. All these threads of connections.

What percentage of people living in America actually believe that it was just Lee Harvey Oswald as the sole gun man in this terrible story as you get right down to it?

Seriously ... I've studied this on and off for about two decades and I'm still blown away by the enormous likelihood that this is possible. That is ...until I connect the dots.

As we work this thread I propose that we simply post our findings and after some time try to make sense of the TRUTH.

[woodbuck27]

Originally Posted by LEWCWA ...

" obviously he pissed off the wrong people. It seems everyone had a reason for wanting him dead! " LEWCWA



Yes JFK had enemies.

JFK and his enemies ...was the worst one a woman!?

Last night I took some time to read about all JFK's lovers. Some of those named surprized me. It appears that JFK enjoyed doubling down when it came to lovers. He had a bunch of them. All... not accounting for taste... looked somewhat... or very spectacular in appearance. It's my prescription that you chose a woman to support you based in how compassionate she is; and that coupled with here degree of efficiency and brains. JFK didn't exactly get that right.

Jack Kennedy was very much into a woman's sex appeal; her "tit's and ass". It's been written that Jack Kennedy was "a smooth ladies man" who didn't see an attractive woman that he didn't at least consider having a quickie with. I thought his little thing with a much older lover of his father's or Joe Kennedy's part time lover Marlene Dietrich was funny. If women were mountains, Jack Kennedy scaled a lot of them.

One of his lovers was a favourite actress of mine...Gene Tierney. I saw her as a tremendous beauty. JFK had his fling with this remarkable beauty to most ordinary men in Gene Tierney that was "just another woman" to Jack. I could "only imagine" a warm sunny day and a blanket and a picnic with Gene Tierney.

Ahh ... she was too old pour moi.

Jack Kennedy had with many of his women a greater reason to adopt rejection. JFK was a busy man, between "taking tail" as we used to call it back in the day, and writing great speeches. :-D

JFK and you and I have things in common. We all have choices to consider - make. Considering them is easy. It's the making of them that requires a fearless approach to living. It's expressing your life and overcoming any doubt and that monster procrastination that's the secret to maximizing " the self ", and delivering on "YOU"..

One thing I've known about living is this. You count on "YOU", and not so much on anyone else to get "YOU" where "YOU" need to be. "YOU" balance that with a proper support group. Life a decision making is simple.

I'm imaging that Jack Kennedy prescribed to "the two to one theory" and forward living. Living his life to the fullest in terms of maximum personal expression resulted in extreme "risk". Did JFK imagine there were no ultimate risks. Didn't he need to be constantly reminded that his greatness was limited in terms of his obsessions and compulsions?

Why not because what do you have to lose but nothing. Just ... do... something. Life gives excellent odds.

The odds are always two to one in our favour.

I've always "only had to defeat procrastination". Procrastination the robber of all artistry. I've known since I was a teen that every action taken gives me two more choices.

1. Make the choice or take some action and it'll result in exactly or close enough to what I wanted the outcome to be.

OR

2. Make the choice, take the action and if the result is disappointing rethink it. Simply go back to the beginning and make a different choice.

Life is a constant process control loop. I spent a good part of my life being an analyst. I worked a good part of my life in design or as my own artist. Fine tuning systems that blended together gave a desired result. Isn't that what living is all about; and if so!? How come even that most gifted people or taken to an extreme "THE MOST TALENTED PEOPLE" screw up? The answer to that is in how one blends in his/her checks and responses system into the whole process. I knew long ago that you must have a leash on life and excess or your doomed.

I wonder if Jackie Kennedy (his wife ) who was well aware of her husbands extra curricular activities was a friend to advise him to exercise restraint? Jack's father, Joe Kennedy did the very best he could to advise his boy in "certain regards". I'm sure choice of women was one of those. How did Jack make such an unfortunate error so determined to vanquish Marilyn Monroe. Why did he need that notch in his lovers tree? JFK underestimated the degree of trouble the someone like Marilyn Monroe woild offer back to him for his needs of sexual gratification. Monroe was or she remains living somehow on as arguably the most adored "sex symbol" that has or ever will breathe. There won't be any Marilyn Munroe clones. She was gorgeous and she was very troubled. Too much for Jack to pass by and how much of that fact has to do with his untimely death can only be speculated upon as the investigation of that whole thing has maximized.

To focus on JFK's reported brief to expanded affair with Marilyn Munroe. All that depended on how a writer decided to shape his/her propaganda and JFK and RFK (brother Bobby Kennedy) who both had a piece of Marilyn. That focus...can tease the old grey matter. Personally some focus there led me down a twisted path of discovery that amazed me and to what I believe is the TRUTH and the assassination of JFK.

I believe that it's not always the direct associations with individuals that harm us. You can focus clearly on an individual. It's the associated personality's that can get from scary to disaster.

Joe couldn't always be there. In the end JFK forgot the lesson (s); that caught up with him and he died too young. How many men fail to master the art of acquiring mentor friends!? "YOU" count on "YOU" yet not on "all on you". Often we forget to account for our flaws. Maybe JFK needed more real friends? Maybe his philandering ways disallowed that in terms of his wife "Jackie".

JFK somehow disregarded and/or failed to account for the unknown. He lived a forward life with incredible passion; pursuing it recklessly, head on bang to the end of his game.

His potential torn to shreads by men that hated him. That thought has always torn inside of me. That thought has always somehow affected me deeply and made me sad.

Didn't JFK needed more "Joe's"?