Next Year's DC

[pittstang5]

The writing is on the wall. There is no way this team, specifically the Defense turns it around this year. I really believe Capers will not be the DC next year.

Who takes over the defense? I don't think that person is currently on the Packer Coaching staff. I think MM sticks with a 3-4 defense. I believe he has stated before that he prefers a 3-4, not to mention this team is pretty much built for a 3-4.

I don't know who that person could be. If I had a choice, I would want Ray Horton who is currently the DC in Cleveland. Unless his contract is up, I don't think we could get him unless he's offered an assist. head coach position or something like that.

Who are some 3-4 Def. up and comers that could be here next year?

[denverYooper]

I would have been happy had they brought Horton in over this past offseason but unfortuately, that's not the Packers' style. My main criticism of M3 is that he is loyal to a fault to his staff.

More than likely, they'll retire Capers and promote from within.

[red]

I would have been happy had they brought Horton in over this past offseason but unfortuately, that's not the Packers' style. My main criticism of M3 is that he is loyal to a fault to his staff.

More than likely, they'll retire Capers and promote from within.

thats what they said on one of the post game chats too

i wouldn't want that, i think the whole defensive staff should go

i do think we stick with the 3-4 though unfortunately, we're tied to clay and clay is a 3-4 guy

[bobblehead]

i do think we stick with the 3-4 though unfortunately, we're tied to clay and clay is a 3-4 guy
I disagree. Clay is a football player. I don't even think he is an elite pass rusher. I think he would be just fine in a 4-3. Also, Neal and/or Perry wouldn't have any problem playing end in the 4-3, Jolly, Datone, Worthy are all guys who can play inside.

If the desire to switch back were there, we could adjust.

[red]

I disagree. Clay is a football player. I don't even think he is an elite pass rusher. I think he would be just fine in a 4-3. Also, Neal and/or Perry wouldn't have any problem playing end in the 4-3, Jolly, Datone, Worthy are all guys who can play inside.

If the desire to switch back were there, we could adjust.
you can't pay a guy as much money as we just gave clay to be an OLB in a 4-3. and coverage isn't his strong suite

i just don't know if he's that far above average doing anything but rushing the passer

his cap number is 11.5 next year and it goes up every year after that. thats waaaay too much money for a will or sam OLB in a 4-3, much less one that might just be "solid" at that position

[pbmax]

WOLB would be a better fit for Hawk. But there is no MLB on the roster. Not sure there is a 1 or 3 technique worth keeping now. Lots of ends. It would be a mess but would surprise people for a year until they could scheme it off film.

[Rodgers12]

Who are some 3-4 Def. up and comers that could be here next year?

Up and comers? I would love for the Packers to give ex-Packer great and current KC assistant DB coach, Al Harris, a a shot as D-coordinator. Harris inexperienced but he's smart.

If McCarthy wants an experienced guy, there are and will be plenty of big fishes in the sea. Romeo Crennel and Lovie Smith are some examples. But the guy I'd hire if I don't get Al Harris is:

REX RYAN.

[woodbuck27]

Up and comers? I would love for the Packers to give ex-Packer great and current KC assistant DB coach, Al Harris, a a shot as D-coordinator. Harris inexperienced but he's smart.

If McCarthy wants an experienced guy, there are and will be plenty of big fishes in the sea. Romeo Crennel and Lovie Smith are some examples. But the guy I'd hire if I don't get Al Harris is:

REX RYAN.

Yea and Rex might help Mike McCarthy look more buff on the sidelines.

[Rodgers12]

Yea and Rex might help Mike McCarthy look more buff on the sidelines.

LOL. :lol:

[packrulz]

I think it might be good to let Capers go now and let Winston Moss or Kevin Greene finish the season at DC, to see how they do, then decide at the end of the year what our options are.

[Patler]

Kevin Greene? He's been an Assistant Coach - Outside Linebackers for 4+ years, that's it. No other coaching experience. That's a lot more green (pun intended) than I want the next DC to be.

I don't think I want Moss either. I would rather have someone with a proven track record as DC, especially since MM has no background in defense.

[bobblehead]

Up and comers? I would love for the Packers to give ex-Packer great and current KC assistant DB coach, Al Harris, a a shot as D-coordinator. Harris inexperienced but he's smart.

If McCarthy wants an experienced guy, there are and will be plenty of big fishes in the sea. Romeo Crennel and Lovie Smith are some examples. But the guy I'd hire if I don't get Al Harris is:

REX RYAN.

You are on the right track, but Al needs more time. How about Tim Lewis? Anyone know where he is?

[bobblehead]

you can't pay a guy as much money as we just gave clay to be an OLB in a 4-3. and coverage isn't his strong suite

i just don't know if he's that far above average doing anything but rushing the passer

his cap number is 11.5 next year and it goes up every year after that. thats waaaay too much money for a will or sam OLB in a 4-3, much less one that might just be "solid" at that position

I do agree, the contract makes it difficult, but I disagree about what he does well. I think he is merely above average at rushing the passer (inferior to Kampman), but he is awesome vs. the run, pursuit, and good, not great in coverage.

[pittstang5]

Kevin Greene? He's been an Assistant Coach - Outside Linebackers for 4+ years, that's it. No other coaching experience. That's a lot more green (pun intended) than I want the next DC to be.

I don't think I want Moss either. I would rather have someone with a proven track record as DC, especially since MM has no background in defense.

If I am not mistaken, Trgovac is the only Packer Def. coach that has been a Defensive Coordinator. If Capers was fired today, that's who I think takes over - BUT, didn't he run a 4-3 with the Panthers? Not saying he can't run a 3-4 Defense, but his history was with a 4-3, so long term, I don't think he's the answer if McCarthy decided to wait until the end of the year and then promoted within.

I like Greene's fire, but there's no way he becomes a DC. He's just too inexperienced.

[sheepshead]

One of the head coaches that gets fired this off season that will never HC again. Leslie Frazier?

[red]

the problem with kevin greene is that he's never coached before, like patler said

motivating and running 4 or 5 guys through their drills is much different then running the whole defense and calling all the plays

[red]

One of the head coaches that gets fired this off season that will never HC again. Leslie Frazier?

can he run the 3-4? or is he a 4-3 guy?

so, would we have to switch if we grab him? if we switch i would rather go with lovie to tell the truth

[woodbuck27]

thats what they said on one of the post game chats too

i wouldn't want that, i think the whole defensive staff should go

i do think we stick with the 3-4 though unfortunately, we're tied to clay and clay is a 3-4 guy

Hi red:

" thats what they said on one of the post game chats too "

I'm going to review that today after going out for stuff. Which chat are you referring to?

[woodbuck27]

I think it might be good to let Capers go now and let Winston Moss or Kevin Greene finish the season at DC, to see how they do, then decide at the end of the year what our options are.

That might paint MM into a corner.

I feel we go the course and move quick when we see what's available after the regular season.

Packers !

[woodbuck27]

Kevin Greene? He's been an Assistant Coach - Outside Linebackers for 4+ years, that's it. No other coaching experience. That's a lot more green (pun intended) than I want the next DC to be.

I don't think I want Moss either. I would rather have someone with a proven track record as DC, especially since MM has no background in defense.

Yes.

[NewsBruin]

Given the annual HC turnover, how long do you think Rex Ryan will last as Not An HC? I could see him being the league's most expensive DC hire next year if the Jets let him go (it only takes 2 teams to make a bidding war). He's done badass stuff with the 3-4, that much I'll give him.

[KYPack]

To switch or not to switch?

I now join the Wistian legion which says that Capers is done like yesterdays turkey.

Dom's schemes have played out for years and sharp OC's don't have much trouble countering 'em.

A new DC?

Yeah, probably from within.

We don't have much in terms of 4-3 personnel. Mike Daniels would be a decent 3 tech. But where are the other DLine players?

We would have exactly no rush ends, 7 tech guys who could put heat on the passer. Jones appears to be an OK 5 tech who has progressed during the year, and Neal can be a 5 tech or play the hybrid like he did this year.

There are far more guys who have come up short and are old or have bad contracts & will be released in the DL.

God, I'm depressing myself.

What are we gonna do?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Hope he's gone the day after the season is over.

[denverYooper]

One of the head coaches that gets fired this off season that will never HC again. Leslie Frazier?

I don't think he'll get let go, but Gus Bradley might be interesting. He ran Seattle's hybrid D, nominally a 4-3, but really used tweeners in shifting roles.

[denverYooper]

Given the annual HC turnover, how long do you think Rex Ryan will last as Not An HC? I could see him being the league's most expensive DC hire next year if the Jets let him go (it only takes 2 teams to make a bidding war). He's done badass stuff with the 3-4, that much I'll give him.

Didn't Green Bay make Dom the highest paid DC when he was hired?

[Smeefers]

Jeez, after reading through these posts, I get the feeling that a lot of people think that TT is going to completely switch gears. Yes, Capers might be gone, but I don't think it's a for gone conclusion. Slocum is still our ST coach and he's been God awful for years. What's next? Are the packers going to hit free agency hard in order to fix the problems on the OL and at Safety? Lol. Keep dreaming folks.

If, and that's a big if, we get a new DC, it's most likely going to be Winston Moss or Darren Perry.

[The Shadow]

I disagree. Clay is a football player. I don't even think he is an elite pass rusher. I think he would be just fine in a 4-3. Also, Neal and/or Perry wouldn't have any problem playing end in the 4-3, Jolly, Datone, Worthy are all guys who can play inside.

If the desire to switch back were there, we could adjust.

Agree completely.

[The Shadow]

can he run the 3-4? or is he a 4-3 guy?

so, would we have to switch if we grab him? if we switch i would rather go with lovie to tell the truth

I like this, too. Lovie is a great DC - but a poor HC. If he realizes he is not going to get a head coaching job, he might like the idea of making the team that fired him pay.

[woodbuck27]

To switch or not to switch?

I now join the Wistian legion which says that Capers is done like yesterdays turkey.

Dom's schemes have played out for years and sharp OC's don't have much trouble countering 'em.

A new DC?

Yeah, probably from within.

We don't have much in terms of 4-3 personnel. Mike Daniels would be a decent 3 tech. But where are the other DLine players?

We would have exactly no rush ends, 7 tech guys who could put heat on the passer. Jones appears to be an OK 5 tech who has progressed during the year, and Neal can be a 5 tech or play the hybrid like he did this year.

There are far more guys who have come up short and are old or have bad contracts & will be released in the DL.

God, I'm depressing myself.

What are we gonna do?

Yea ... as bad as the OL looks now I can see what we have available on the roster morphing into something special.

The DL ... not so much. The DL needs newer parts.

If they say bye to Pickett and let Raji walk. That leaves one BIG MAN... Johnny Jolly. He needs to work harder on his conditioning in the off season. He's got the heart we need to see. Too many others on 'D' not so much. That will dictate a focus on FA and drafting priority.

What's the verdict on Brad Jones?

It appears that CB Tramon Williams will be Packer history. We need another 'physically gifted' CB. Where will that guy be found?

I stil think a focus needs to be put on the Safety positionand TE as well.

The offense needs a TE like all the best teams are so fortunate to have and use with impact.

The Packers need to ensure a solid backup QB.

GO PACK GO !

[KYPack]

You are on the right track, but Al needs more time. How about Tim Lewis? Anyone know where he is?

Hot lanta, coaching the DB's.

He's twice been a DC with Pitt and the Giants. In both cases, he did some brilliant work, only to have things get incredibly ugly and Tim getting canned. Once thought to be a bright light defensively & possibly a HC, he now is an older (51) position coach. He might be in line to get canned again as Smith is having an ugly go this season in ATL.

I like the guy and wouldn't freak if he was our new DC.

[Zool]

To switch or not to switch?

I now join the Wistian legion which says that Capers is done like yesterdays turkey.

Dom's schemes have played out for years and sharp OC's don't have much trouble countering 'em.

A new DC?

Yeah, probably from within.

We don't have much in terms of 4-3 personnel. Mike Daniels would be a decent 3 tech. But where are the other DLine players?

We would have exactly no rush ends, 7 tech guys who could put heat on the passer. Jones appears to be an OK 5 tech who has progressed during the year, and Neal can be a 5 tech or play the hybrid like he did this year.

There are far more guys who have come up short and are old or have bad contracts & will be released in the DL.

God, I'm depressing myself.

What are we gonna do?

Perry and Neal as the starters on the ends would be ok. Doesn't Raji seem like he could be a force as a DT? We have no Mikes though.

[packrulz]

I'm just pissed off about a humbling loss, often our defensive players are in position to make the play, yet they slide off like their hands are greased with butter. That's not Capers fault, maybe our players just aren't very good, Clay is the only stud we have.

[Old School]

As bad as we need a top notch TE, I could see the Packers do a philosophical about face and sign Finley if he gets medical clearance. The way this year is going, TT will be running scared.

[bobblehead]

Hot lanta, coaching the DB's.

He's twice been a DC with Pitt and the Giants. In both cases, he did some brilliant work, only to have things get incredibly ugly and Tim getting canned. Once thought to be a bright light defensively & possibly a HC, he now is an older (51) position coach. He might be in line to get canned again as Smith is having an ugly go this season in ATL.

I like the guy and wouldn't freak if he was our new DC.

I lost track of him after pittsburg, but I liked the way their D played when he was in charge. I also met him when I was like 10, and he was nice to me so I might be biased.

[woodbuck27]

Jeez, after reading through these posts, I get the feeling that a lot of people think that TT is going to completely switch gears. Yes, Capers might be gone, but I don't think it's a for gone conclusion. Slocum is still our ST coach and he's been God awful for years. What's next? Are the packers going to hit free agency hard in order to fix the problems on the OL and at Safety? Lol. Keep dreaming folks.

If, and that's a big if, we get a new DC, it's most likely going to be Winston Moss or Darren Perry.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOpDgVJmxRcOJ-LWo2V0-90TgudHVogvshBIZU_RUJLJu_i4KslA

[woodbuck27]

Hot lanta, coaching the DB's.

He's twice been a DC with Pitt and the Giants. In both cases, he did some brilliant work, only to have things get incredibly ugly and Tim getting canned. Once thought to be a bright light defensively & possibly a HC, he now is an older (51) position coach. He might be in line to get canned again as Smith is having an ugly go this season in ATL.

I like the guy and wouldn't freak if he was our new DC.

Are you referring to this guy KY:

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/coaches/Joe-Danna/26493287-97d2-403a-9924-2555fd1be77e

Someone else?

Atlanta Coaching Staff:

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/coaches.html

[Pugger]

I would have been happy had they brought Horton in over this past offseason but unfortuately, that's not the Packers' style. My main criticism of M3 is that he is loyal to a fault to his staff.

More than likely, they'll retire Capers and promote from within.

MM has canned a DC before (Sanders in 2009) so you never know. I hope they bring in new blood to be DC. A different POV and philosophy might not be a bad idea for 2014.

[Pugger]

I disagree. Clay is a football player. I don't even think he is an elite pass rusher. I think he would be just fine in a 4-3. Also, Neal and/or Perry wouldn't have any problem playing end in the 4-3, Jolly, Datone, Worthy are all guys who can play inside.

If the desire to switch back were there, we could adjust.

Really??

[Pugger]

Up and comers? I would love for the Packers to give ex-Packer great and current KC assistant DB coach, Al Harris, a a shot as D-coordinator. Harris inexperienced but he's smart.

If McCarthy wants an experienced guy, there are and will be plenty of big fishes in the sea. Romeo Crennel and Lovie Smith are some examples. But the guy I'd hire if I don't get Al Harris is:

REX RYAN.

Harris isn't ready to be a DC but I wouldn't mind him as one of our secondary coaches. Crennel is an intriguing candidate. Just last year we was KC's DC for a while but he is 66. Would Smith or Ryan accept a coordinator's position or do they only want HCing jobs?

[Pugger]

As bad as we need a top notch TE, I could see the Packers do a philosophical about face and sign Finley if he gets medical clearance. The way this year is going, TT will be running scared.

TT isn't running scared. The guy who should be looking over his shoulder is Capers. Mike has canned his DC for poor performance by the D before.

[red]

MM has canned a DC before (Sanders in 2009) so you never know. I hope they bring in new blood to be DC. A different POV and philosophy might not be a bad idea for 2014.
Wasn't he kinda forced to fire sanders?

I was pretty sure m3 was reluctant to make the move but TT forced his hand

[red]

Harris isn't ready to be a DC but I wouldn't mind him as one of our secondary coaches. Crennel is an intriguing candidate. Just last year we was KC's DC for a while but he is 66. Would Smith or Ryan accept a coordinator's position or do they only want HCing jobs?

Ryan might get another HC gig, i think lovie has been gone long enough with no offers where he might take a DC position

[Guiness]

Ryan might get another HC gig, i think lovie has been gone long enough with no offers where he might take a DC position

Would be interesting to have Lovie in Green Bay...the guy who publicly said (on Letterman?) that he considered the Bear's season a success if they beat the Packers twice!

[bobblehead]

Really??

How many times has he gotten over 13 sacks in a season?

Gonna edit a bit. I think clay does EVERYTHING very well and that is his skill. He is elite in that way, but there are many better pass rushers than him.

The way he single handedly beat the option play in week 1 was incredible. He makes big plays, causing fumbles, and never quits on a play. He simply does it all, but we need one more guy like a cameron wake or someone to make him look elite in pass rush.

[woodbuck27]

Harris isn't ready to be a DC but I wouldn't mind him as one of our secondary coaches. Crennel is an intriguing candidate. Just last year we was KC's DC for a while but he is 66. Would Smith or Ryan accept a coordinator's position or do they only want HCing jobs?

It appears to me as if Rex Ryan enjoys the spot light.

On the other hand.

If the Jets CRASH and burn >>> end of this season.

He might very well get canned and there's no gurantee of him and another HC gig.

[woodbuck27]

How many times has he gotten over 13 sacks in a season?

Gonna edit a bit. I think clay does EVERYTHING very well and that is his skill. He is elite in that way, but there are many better pass rushers than him.

The way he single handedly beat the option play in week 1 was incredible. He makes big plays, causing fumbles, and never quits on a play. He simply does it all, but we need one more guy like a cameron wake or someone to make him look elite in pass rush.

Yup we still don't have that other guy opposite Clay to release him more.

Clay Matthews draws too much attention and after that who's there to step up?

[Carolina_Packer]

Yup we still don't have that other guy opposite Clay to release him more.

Clay Matthews draws too much attention and after that who's there to step up?

It would seem an issue that 1) Nick Perry cannot stay healthy 2) prefers to rush and has more success rushing from the right side

Neither one of those things helps the Packers defense. It doesn't mean he can't rush from the left side, but if he's twice or more as productive rushing from the other side, and presuming (big presumption given his short history) that he can stay healthy, do you possibly move Clay if he is just as productive from either side (don't know whether he is or not).

Our pressure starts with winning first and second down and stopping the run and controlling the down and distance battle. If they keep getting gashed and have limited pass rush opportunities, then it doesn't matter where they rush from.

[Joemailman]

It would seem an issue that 1) Nick Perry cannot stay healthy 2) prefers to rush and has more success rushing from the right side

Neither one of those things helps the Packers defense. It doesn't mean he can't rush from the left side, but if he's twice or more as productive rushing from the other side, and presuming (big presumption given his short history) that he can stay healthy, do you possibly move Clay if he is just as productive from either side (don't know whether he is or not).

Our pressure starts with winning first and second down and stopping the run and controlling the down and distance battle. If they keep getting gashed and have limited pass rush opportunities, then it doesn't matter where they rush from.

If Perry is more effective from the right side, why not move Matthews? Didn't he play the left side in 2010 when they won the Super Bowl? I think Matthews can play either side with equal effectiveness.

[red]

I thought they already moved clay to accomodate perry

[Bretsky]

I thought they already moved clay to accomodate perry

Dom Capers coming back would not surprise me at all
I'd love Horton
I'd be ok with Lovie Smith as well

[Bretsky]

If we can't fine another pro calibur safety and a pass rusher who can stay healthy opposite Mathews the DC doesn't matter much IMO

[Joemailman]

I do agree, the contract makes it difficult, but I disagree about what he does well. I think he is merely above average at rushing the passer (inferior to Kampman), but he is awesome vs. the run, pursuit, and good, not great in coverage.

Could Matthews play MLB in a 4-3? Might sound crazy to some, but he's smart, has a burst, is a sure tackler. Not sure about his coverage skills, but not every good MLB can cover like Urlacher could.

[Patler]

If we can't fine another pro calibur safety and a pass rusher who can stay healthy opposite Mathews the DC doesn't matter much IMO

Does the pass rusher opposite Matthews have to be healthy the whole season, or only those weeks that Matthews is healthy?? :lol: :lol:

[Bretsky]

Does the pass rusher opposite Matthews have to be healthy the whole season, or only those weeks that Matthews is healthy?? :lol: :lol:


A very good point...ya...we need Mathews to stay healthy too since right now he's our playmaker on defense
We need another one...or two

[pbmax]

I thought they already moved clay to accomodate perry

They have been switching sides but its not permanent. Its hard to track because Neal is in there as well as Mulumba but Matthews still rushes from the right quite a bit.

[cheesner]

If we can't fine another pro calibur safety and a pass rusher who can stay healthy opposite Mathews the DC doesn't matter much IMO
These players may already be on the roster. A new DC may utilize the talent we have much better.

A guy like Ryan, would be excellent. He is a motivator who's players will run through a brick wall for him. For Capers, they would step around paper mache wall - hey, don't want to stretch a hammie, ya know. As for Rex himself, he will get another HC job if he does get fired in NY - which I don't think he will.

I cringe every time I see Greene listed as a possible replacement. Does he just have lots of relatives posting on his behalf? I don't understand the desire - I would understand if our OLBs were all phenoms. We have Clay, but that is it at OLB. The rest of the lot have not stepped up into impact players. Must be based on Greene's history as a player and his fiery demeanor - but that isn't going to make him a good DC.

[Joemailman]

I am convinced the secondary coverage would be better if Tramon Williams and the Safeties would stop running into each other.

[woodbuck27]

It would seem an issue that 1) Nick Perry cannot stay healthy 2) prefers to rush and has more success rushing from the right side

Neither one of those things helps the Packers defense. It doesn't mean he can't rush from the left side, but if he's twice or more as productive rushing from the other side, and presuming (big presumption given his short history) that he can stay healthy, do you possibly move Clay if he is just as productive from either side (don't know whether he is or not).

Our pressure starts with winning first and second down and stopping the run and controlling the down and distance battle. If they keep getting gashed and have limited pass rush opportunities, then it doesn't matter where they rush from.

Their moving Clay around. He's on the LHS looking at the offense a lot in the last two games.

I'll report this:

If they don't get a pass rush going against Matt Ryan (Atlanta) this week and MM has to use either Flynn/Tolzien and I'd suggest Tolzien. The defensive scheme must take advantage of Ryan's tendency to be too exacting getting rid of the ball on passing plays. The defense must pressure Matt Ryan big time.

If that's not taken care of...we lose another game.

Matt Ryan 28 for 47 and 311 yards and 1 TD 0 Picks Vs the Bills. The Atlanta Falcons offense is now balanced again.

The Atlanta Falcons looked good Vs the Buffalo in an OT win, snapping a five game skid. The Falcons are healthy with RB Stephen Jackson running for three TD's (84 yards).RB Antone Smith scored 1 TD on one carry. They combined for 122 yards on the ground.

Tony Gonzalez getting one score and Roddy White is back to form with 10 receptions for 143 yards and 'no' scores. Look out as he'll want to be on the score sheet Vs the Packers.

The Aaron Rodgers watch will be intense this week. Will the Packers actually use him?

I'm scatchin' my head over that one. :wink:

PACKERS !

[Tony Oday]

We are third in the NFL in sacks...just saying.

[woodbuck27]

If we can't fine another pro calibur safety and a pass rusher who can stay healthy opposite Mathews the DC doesn't matter much IMO

You nailed it B.

On 'D':

DT

Rush DE or LBer ... Nick Perry looks Derek Sherrodish or injury prone and that curse isn't easily shaken.

Please TT a FS and a taller/physical CB.

Three of these as the BPA with the 1st three picks. For all that's sensible I don't want ted Thompson to trade down in this years draft. We need the best at where our picks will sit. We don't need water in our wine.

On 'O'.... TT has to secure a better option as a developmentle backup QB or go all in with Scott Tolzien and the risk that he won't develop.

Matt Flynn = NO WAY as he looks now !

TT has to get more depth on our OL.

TT has to find a strong tall physical presence at WR. That's absolutely imperitive if James Jones leaves Green Bay and he will if TT ignores his worth.

By the way...where is Ted Thompson? Any TT sightings? What's with that guy? He's a lot like BJ Raji...invisible to this packer fan.

Ted Thompson has to re-sign Sam Shields and James Jones to reduce the pressure that will be on him as a result of either or both leaving in FA.

Ted Thompson has to let go of any plans to retain BJ Raji. Simply let go of that idea. If it's the TRUTH... TT's offer of $ 8 Million $ to BJ Raji was an error in financial judgement. A big error in terms of his value to our 'D'. What he once was is gone. For whatever reason he's just lost on our DL now. BJ Raji looks terrible now. I'll be focuse on his play for the remainder of the schedule ... as I can.

PACKERS !

[pbmax]

These players may already be on the roster. A new DC may utilize the talent we have much better.

A guy like Ryan, would be excellent. He is a motivator who's players will run through a brick wall for him. For Capers, they would step around paper mache wall - hey, don't want to stretch a hammie, ya know. As for Rex himself, he will get another HC job if he does get fired in NY - which I don't think he will.

I cringe every time I see Greene listed as a possible replacement. Does he just have lots of relatives posting on his behalf? I don't understand the desire - I would understand if our OLBs were all phenoms. We have Clay, but that is it at OLB. The rest of the lot have not stepped up into impact players. Must be based on Greene's history as a player and his fiery demeanor - but that isn't going to make him a good DC.

People who want Green to be DC also thought it was a good idea to make Mike Singletary a Head Coach. Familiarity and tenaciousness are mistaken for qualifications to be the head of a complex organizational monster.

[Smidgeon]

Jeez, after reading through these posts, I get the feeling that a lot of people think that TT is going to completely switch gears. Yes, Capers might be gone, but I don't think it's a for gone conclusion. Slocum is still our ST coach and he's been God awful for years. What's next? Are the packers going to hit free agency hard in order to fix the problems on the OL and at Safety? Lol. Keep dreaming folks.

If, and that's a big if, we get a new DC, it's most likely going to be Winston Moss or Darren Perry.

I actually shuddered when I read this. Pretty sure the only defensive coach I'd like to keep is Greene. And not as a DC. As an OLB coach. The rest can turnover. Moss, Perry, and Whitt (well, maybe not Whitt) have disappointed me. And I'm indifferent about the rest.

I'm not a "sky is falling" type person, but what's gotten to me isn't the seeming collapse of the defense several years running (I think injuries account for a lot of that). It's that when there are healthy players, they still have trouble communicating, confusing coverages, losing lane discipline, etc, and it isn't the same players over and over. Those communication problems have been there since Day 1 with the MLBs, CBs, and Ss. I just thought it was a learning process that would get better each year. It hasn't. So I'm (finally) offboard on developing the coaches.

[Smidgeon]

MM has canned a DC before (Sanders in 2009) so you never know. I hope they bring in new blood to be DC. A different POV and philosophy might not be a bad idea for 2014.

And when M3 canned said DC, he was maligned for not making that move when he took over. I remember articles about how often HCs can DCs or OCs, and the article implied in most cases it was scapegoating to cut lose a coordinator to give the HC more time in charge.

Now, having evolved my opinion about the trustworthiness of articles (sensationalist "reporting"), it could have just been a story used to stir up unrest. Even if it was, it makes me wonder: If M3 does turn over the D-staff, it will be two consecutive coordinators he chose poorly. If the third can't fix it, he'll have to answer for that. Hiring competent staff is part of his job, and frankly, he seems to be quite poor at that part of the job:

Campen
Slocum
Odd (to me) shifts of O-coaches (but I don't know if they're poor decisions because that's how people get experience and move up--they just seem odd to me: Van Pelt, Fontenot, Clements promotions/shifts/etc)
And that short list doesn't take into account the D-side either...

[Smidgeon]

How many times has he gotten over 13 sacks in a season?

Gonna edit a bit. I think clay does EVERYTHING very well and that is his skill. He is elite in that way, but there are many better pass rushers than him.

The way he single handedly beat the option play in week 1 was incredible. He makes big plays, causing fumbles, and never quits on a play. He simply does it all, but we need one more guy like a cameron wake or someone to make him look elite in pass rush.

Yep. I was going to say something along these lines as a counter point, but turns out it's the same point you're making.

He isn't a Top 3 pass rusher, but he's a Top 10 everything, and that makes for one of those rare complete players.

[run pMc]

People who want Green to be DC also thought it was a good idea to make Mike Singletary a Head Coach. Familiarity and tenaciousness are mistaken for qualifications to be the head of a complex organizational monster.

Agree. Greene's not ready to be a DC IMO. The good DC's like Horton, Mike Zimmer, et al. who could coach a 3-4 are more likely to get chances at a HC job. I'm not sure a guy on a losing team like Wade Phillips would be any good either; I always get the sense he's angling for a HC spot.

I think the players have been responsible (not being gap disciplined, the safeties playing subpar this year) and wonder if the front-office emphasis on youth/inexperience leads to broken/bad plays. Despite this, and allthe injuries, Capers and staff bear some responsibility...the play of the defense has regressed this season. Maybe they've been tuned out and need a change? I'm not in the building so I don't know, but the game results aren't good.

[woodbuck27]

I actually shuddered when I read this. Pretty sure the only defensive coach I'd like to keep is Greene. And not as a DC. As an OLB coach. The rest can turnover. Moss, Perry, and Whitt (well, maybe not Whitt) have disappointed me. And I'm indifferent about the rest.

I'm not a "sky is falling" type person, but what's gotten to me isn't the seeming collapse of the defense several years running (I think injuries account for a lot of that). It's that when there are healthy players, they still have trouble communicating, confusing coverages, losing lane discipline, etc, and it isn't the same players over and over. Those communication problems have been there since Day 1 with the MLBs, CBs, and Ss. I just thought it was a learning process that would get better each year. It hasn't. So I'm (finally) offboard on developing the coaches.

Yes something is definitely wrong with our coaching on the defensive side and ST's.

How much longer is MM going to paint that fact over? It's become 'a dark red stain' and darker with time. All those coats of clear coat that Mike McCarthy uses over and over just don't cut it..... in terms of obliterating that stain.

That coaching circle should in my humble opinion .... be broken.

The Green Bay Packers must make many changes. Demonstrate as a primary focus a determination to remaining at the top as a competitive NFL team. As it is now the Green Bay Packers need adjustments to remain in that conversation.

Otherwise what will players like Clay 'NFL Mega Star' Matthews III and Aaron 'just me' Rodgers think?

Please TT and MM .... don't embarrass these players.

Imagine it going as it's now going and the Green Bay Packers losing too often and paying Clay and Aaron what they've commited to? Imagine the media commentary on that note!

The last thing we all need to see is the Green Bay Packers and this franchise associated with the word 'embarrassment'.

GO PACK GO !

[Smidgeon]

Agree. Greene's not ready to be a DC IMO. The good DC's like Horton, Mike Zimmer, et al. who could coach a 3-4 are more likely to get chances at a HC job. I'm not sure a guy on a losing team like Wade Phillips would be any good either; I always get the sense he's angling for a HC spot.

I think the players have been responsible (not being gap disciplined, the safeties playing subpar this year) and wonder if the front-office emphasis on youth/inexperience leads to broken/bad plays. Despite this, and allthe injuries, Capers and staff bear some responsibility...the play of the defense has regressed this season. Maybe they've been tuned out and need a change? I'm not in the building so I don't know, but the game results aren't good.

Except that everyone in the secondary with more than two starts (so excluding Hyde, Banjo, McMillian, and Hayward) is in at least their third season:

Tramon, 12 starts, 7th season
Jennings, 12 starts, 3rd season
Shields, 10 starts, 4th season
Burnett, 9 starts, 4th season
House, 5 starts, 3rd season

I would expect by the third season that they're no longer considered young or inexperienced. They should know the system backwards and forwards. In fact, this group should be the nucleus of the defense. They've been together and grown together in the same system with the same position coaches for a few years now. They should know how to play together and work with each other. Too many broken plays for this much experience. And that's why I tend to blame the coaches. The only players that seem to rise above and be reliable on the back end are the ones that seemed to have done it on their own. It's like the O-line: they get better in spite of the coach and not because of them.

Too many breakdowns, too often, for too long.

[dahammer001]

My main criticism of M3 is that he is loyal to a fault to his staff. Ray Rhodes was loyal too, and that loyalty cost him his job...