a theory

[red]

heres a list of our upcoming free agents

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/green-bay-packers/

19 guys will be free agents after this season. 19 guys with expiring deals

19 guys that don't have new deals yet, even though we all know players thing they are entitled to a new deal before their old deal runs out

is it possible that some of these guys have given up on the team because they feel the team has given up on them by not resigning them? could they be thinking "what do i care, i won't kill myself for a team i'm not gonna be a part of next year"

could other guys be looking at this and be saying, "well they took care of their top two guys and no one else, i doubt they'll take care of me when the time comes"?


i mean guys like james jones , EDS and picket are guys that have given their all for the team, and they're about to be just turned lose, we haven't heard of any attempts to resign them at all

could players be getting sick of the way the packers do business? is that why they quit?

edit-fixed the link

[Bossman641]

I highly doubt it. Even if players are pissed they dont have a deal yet they still want to put their performance on tape to help them in upcoming deals.

Plus, looking at the list of free agents, who would you really say has quit? Certainly not Jones or EDS. Pickett is either completely washed up or injured worse than we know. Considering he was playing well just weeks ago I'm going with injury. The only 2 I could potentially see this being a problem with is Raji and maybe Newhouse. A guy has to not care to be playing as poorly as he is.

[KYPack]

That's one of the dangers of the NFL CBA.

Of course, the old mantra here is "they keep playing hard so they have good tape to sell to their new team".

But I doubt it works in every case. These guys are kids in their 20's and many of 'em are immature enough to think exactly like Red says.

Fans have been pointing to this year as the year all these deals come due. Maybe the doomsayers are right. We've got so many deals coming due, we can't manage all these contracts and it's biting us in the ass with all the injuries.

Everybody gets to be right if you keep the same line of bullshit long enough.

[Bossman641]

Also, Red your link is wrong. Yours links to the upcoming FA class. Here's the correct link.

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/green-bay-packers/

[red]

Also, Red your link is wrong. Yours links to the upcoming FA class. Here's the correct link.

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/green-bay-packers/

thanks bossman, too many ctrl c's and crtl v's this morning to keep track of them all

[woodbuck27]

heres a list of our upcoming free agents

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/green-bay-packers/

19 guys will be free agents after this season. 19 guys with expiring deals

19 guys that don't have new deals yet, even though we all know players thing they are entitled to a new deal before their old deal runs out

is it possible that some of these guys have given up on the team because they feel the team has given up on them by not resigning them? could they be thinking "what do i care, i won't kill myself for a team i'm not gonna be a part of next year"

could other guys be looking at this and be saying, "well they took care of their top two guys and no one else, i doubt they'll take care of me when the time comes"?


i mean guys like james jones , EDS and picket are guys that have given their all for the team, and they're about to be just turned lose, we haven't heard of any attempts to resign them at all

could players be getting sick of the way the packers do business? is that why they quit?

edit-fixed the link

Yes red I see your point.

Ted Thompson has had this thing that bugs me as a Packer fan.

He seems to procrastinate ...to be very slow.

What's the scoop on TT and resigning Sam Shields and James Jones?

We learn of a fair to large offer $8$ Million...to BJ Raji and personally watching him play I can't imagine why?! I'll be watching the Lions game recording soon and key on certain players like Raji and Tramon Williams and ... Brad Jones etc.

Brad Jones isn't special to me just from what I garnered watching the game yesterday but I was also posting on the thread here. I need to watch the game again.

Did I see some negative comments on AJ Hawk? IMO if there's one player that is MVP on 'D' this season so far ...Hawk stands out.

I'll review this game and see what's there.

Back to TT. He won't change.

He'll drive some of us out of our skins...it's really just a personality thing. I believe it's that.

Different strokes for....

[channtheman]

Somewhat in the same line of thinking as Red is going with this post. How many of these guys do you think really care about winning a Super Bowl? How many of them do you think care more about just getting a huge paycheck and being "set" for life?*


*life being until they mismanage their money and end up bankrupt by the time they retire.

[denverYooper]

could players be getting sick of the way the packers do business? is that why they quit?

edit-fixed the link

Yeah... I don't know about this. Every team is limited by the salary cap and so every team is limited in how many guys it can pay. There's only so much dough to go around, that's the nature of the business.

[woodbuck27]

Somewhat in the same line of thinking as Red is going with this post. How many of these guys do you think really care about winning a Super Bowl? How many of them do you think care more about just getting a huge paycheck and being "set" for life?*


*life being until they mismanage their money and end up bankrupt by the time they retire.

A lot of fans see it that way.

Not so sure that Ted Thompson can realistically see it that way given the available talent base on the planet.

Replace Nick Collins... How many might be available? End of that discussion.

Find a Calvin Johnson for the Packers ...... Let's get a scout on the African Continent. Maybe?

Great recruits are scarcer than hens teeth.

[Guiness]

Wow I don't like that Shields is on that list. I sure would like to see him get a deal sooner rather than later.

I wonder what kind interest Jolly is going to draw?

[denverYooper]

I don't know... I look at that list and see quite a few guys who have been given more than their fair shake.



James Jones WR UFA GB TBD 29 $3,750,000
John Kuhn FB UFA GB TBD 31 $2,543,750
Newhouse RT, T UFA GB TBD 25 $1,360,462
Sam Shields CB UFA GB TBD 25 $2,023,000
EDS C UFA GB TBD 27 $1,323,000
Finley TE UFA GB TBD 26 $8,750,000
Matt Flynn QB UFA GB TBD 28 $294,412
Rob Francois LB UFA GB TBD 28 $725,000
M.D. Jennings S RFA GB TBD 25 $555,833
Johnny Jolly DE UFA GB TBD 30 $715,000
Lattimore LB RFA GB TBD 25 $556,668
Michael Neal DE UFA GB TBD 26 $920,000
Ryan Pickett DT UFA GB TBD 34 $6,700,000
Andrew Quarless TE UFA GB TBD 25 $1,368,606
B.J. Raji DE UFA GB TBD 27 $6,595,000
James Starks RB RFA GB TBD 27 $655,075
Scott Tolzien QB RFA GB TBD 26 $261,176
Seneca Wallace QB UFA GB TBD 33 $408,000
C.J. Wilson DE UFA GB TBD 26 $642,590


No one else wanted to pay Jones more. The Packers gave him a shot at the market and then gave him what he was worth. He always seems ok with being in the Packers WR corps and I think he plays hard for them.

They've paid Kuhn well for his (dwindling) service. He does good work at FB, but for 2.5 mil?

They can cut Newhouse any time. He seems like a nice person, but I think his time in GB is about up. The only reason they don't cut him today is injuries.

They'll re-do Shields, who has been playing well all year.

They'll try to get something done with EDS, who they've also given more than his fair shake.

Finley is a ? right now. The Packers have overpaid him for 2 years of above-average service.

Flynn would be happy if the Packers considered him a career backup. I don't know that it's worth keeping him over Tolzien right now.

Francois... dunno.

They've given Dr. Jennings a pretty fair shake at S this year. I'm not sure he'll be the answer, but as an RFA and pretty low earner, he'll probably come back. I don't think that he's quit, but I do think he's pretty limited as a player.

They have been more than good to Jolly, who was in prison for 2 years. He's injured but always trying to give what he has.

Lattimore... dunno. He's had flashes this year.

They've had a lot of patience with Neal's injuries and (suspected) PED history. He's actually been available this year and might have found his spot, even if not adjusted fully. He's kind of an interesting one, because he might get paid more elsewhere to play OLB, but it's hard to say the Packers haven't given him every chance to stand out.

I love Pickett, and feel they've treated him well, but he's just not right. Either he's done or his knee is pretty bad but he's not playing 6.7m football right now.

Quarless and Starks are in a similar boat due to injury. I think they'll probably keep Quarless because I feel he's played well since coming back. If Harris comes back healthy next year, Starks could be done. He hasn't done much outside of a few nice runs.

Tolzien plays hard but he's just green. I hope they re-sign him and develop him as a backup.

I love CJ Wilson, but he might get paid more to play 3-4 DE for another team.

Out of that whole list, I think Raji is the one who most wants out. I didn't see much of the game yesterday, but I saw him get owned a few times.

[red]

Yeah... I don't know about this. Every team is limited by the salary cap and so every team is limited in how many guys it can pay. There's only so much dough to go around, that's the nature of the business.

except we aren't up against the cap every year, we're sitting on almost 10 million in free space right now as we speak

[denverYooper]

except we aren't up against the cap every year, we're sitting on almost 10 million in free space right now as we speak

Sure, but how much of that were they looking to load into Raji's potential contract?

Now, it can go to Shields if they can get something done with him.

[Guiness]

I see three guys on that list as being priorities - Shields, Jones and Jolly. Those are guys I can see other teams taking a run at in the offseason and it would be nice to get them under contract now. Jolly in particular I think could be signed for a couple million. Shields and Jones might be interested to see what the open market would bring; Jones didn't get much interest last time but has had two really good seasons. His TD numbers are down of course, but he's had a higher yds/catch and more catches for long gains.

[bobblehead]

yea, I reject the theory. Yoop summed it up ok. A lot of the guys on the list are performing ok, or just aren't good. A team has its mettle tested when adversity hits. We are being tested and failing right now. The short week off of overtime, yada yada didn't help. How many actual practices has Flynn had? I bet he didn't have time to study any Detroit tendencies.

I'm not hacking ya for floating the theory, I just don't buy it. I blame MM for some things. I think he coaches a soft team. Takes it too easy on guys. I don't think he hardens them for an NFL season. He errs on the side of caution with players. Overall, I think we will see a tougher team come out for Atlanta, Arod or not. If they can get embarrassed like that and not come out pissed then we got HUGE problems.

[red]

Sure, but how much of that were they looking to load into Raji's potential contract?

Now, it can go to Shields if they can get something done with him.

doesn't make sense. his cap number was already pretty high this year (6.5 million). his cap number would not have gone up much this year with a new deal

packers did it last year and the year before too i believe. this team does not use all their cap space

[red]

yea, I reject the theory. Yoop summed it up ok. A lot of the guys on the list are performing ok, or just aren't good. A team has its mettle tested when adversity hits. We are being tested and failing right now. The short week off of overtime, yada yada didn't help. How many actual practices has Flynn had? I bet he didn't have time to study any Detroit tendencies.

I'm not hacking ya for floating the theory, I just don't buy it. I blame MM for some things. I think he coaches a soft team. Takes it too easy on guys. I don't think he hardens them for an NFL season. He errs on the side of caution with players. Overall, I think we will see a tougher team come out for Atlanta, Arod or not. If they can get embarrassed like that and not come out pissed then we got HUGE problems.

i agree the guys on the list have been playing well for the most part

but what if younger guys are seeing this and saying "why bother" they don't take care of their own, unless they are elite

[bobblehead]

i agree the guys on the list have been playing well for the most part

but what if younger guys are seeing this and saying "why bother" they don't take care of their own, unless they are elite

Then they won't be on the team for long. I get what you are saying and it does happen. Guys give up on the season and don't play hard. If its happening with some guys they need to be identified and replaced.

Bottom line is that the studs get paid, and the rest toil around at the league minimum. I would say though that guys like Poppinga, Brad Jones, James Jones and some others prove that solid players can get paid by the packers if they are reasonable in their demands. However, reality and perception don't always meet. Some younger players might be frustrated and giving up simply because its not easy. Again, they need to be replaced with high motor self starters.

Parcells always had a mantra about guys who didn't need a coach to motivate them. Guys who just went all the time and never took plays off. Parcells was a winner.

[woodbuck27]

Then they won't be on the team for long. I get what you are saying and it does happen. Guys give up on the season and don't play hard. If its happening with some guys they need to be identified and replaced.

Bottom line is that the studs get paid, and the rest toil around at the league minimum. I would say though that guys like Poppinga, Brad Jones, James Jones and some others prove that solid players can get paid by the packers if they are reasonable in their demands. However, reality and perception don't always meet. Some younger players might be frustrated and giving up simply because its not easy. Again, they need to be replaced with high motor self starters.

Parcells always had a mantra about guys who didn't need a coach to motivate them. Guys who just went all the time and never took plays off. Parcells was a winner.

Bill Parcells:

Where has he gone this season? I havn't seen or heard anything on him.

Hire him to study the Packers as 'a fresh eye'. Help TT cut the deadwood.

It's this 'the Packers are too soft' thing that must be proven wrong.

There's where the focus needs to be centered.

Either ... you prove your all in with training / practising / playing hard or ... your out.

[Pugger]

I highly doubt it. Even if players are pissed they dont have a deal yet they still want to put their performance on tape to help them in upcoming deals.

Plus, looking at the list of free agents, who would you really say has quit? Certainly not Jones or EDS. Pickett is either completely washed up or injured worse than we know. Considering he was playing well just weeks ago I'm going with injury. The only 2 I could potentially see this being a problem with is Raji and maybe Newhouse. A guy has to not care to be playing as poorly as he is.

I don't think Pickett is washed up by any means. He was playing great until he hurt his knee. I don't think the guys have quit but I'm sure they are a discouraged bunch. I were in their shoes I would be too. I know some folks say let's put AR on IR and tank the season but if any team needs something positive and a couple of wins it's our guys. December 8th can't come soon enough.

[red]

Theory #2

Are we having to overpay our own players to keep them, because if we don't, we have to try and draft a replacement who might not work out and who might take 1-3 years to develop into the player that the previous player was

Examples we offered jenning more then anyone else, twice

Brad jones deal that all of us think is insane

The crazy amount of money offered to raji

Making finley the highest paid TE in the nfl this year when he is just above average

Hawks deal

To me it looks like we are being forced to overpay our own guys because the only way we're willing to replace guys is through the draft

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?

[Bretsky]

Theory #2

Are we having to overpay our own players to keep them, because if we don't, we have to try and draft a replacement who might not work out and who might take 1-3 years to develop into the player that the previous player was

Examples we offered jenning more then anyone else, twice

Brad jones deal that all of us think is insane

The crazy amount of money offered to raji

Making finley the highest paid TE in the nfl this year when he is just above average

Hawks deal

To me it looks like we are being forced to overpay our own guys because the only way we're willing to replace guys is through the draft

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?

Many is here tried justisfying the money TT gave to Brad Jones; I thought it was insane and still do
Logic that was used was pointing to Eric Walden's deal. that was insance too
Both are way overpaid

[Bretsky]

Theory #2

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?




Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[KYPack]

Theory #2

Are we having to overpay our own players to keep them, because if we don't, we have to try and draft a replacement who might not work out and who might take 1-3 years to develop into the player that the previous player was

Examples we offered jenning more then anyone else, twice

Brad jones deal that all of us think is insane

The crazy amount of money offered to raji

Making finley the highest paid TE in the nfl this year when he is just above average

Hawks deal

To me it looks like we are being forced to overpay our own guys because the only way we're willing to replace guys is through the draft

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?

Red, sometimes you are too emotional and come up with some half baked ideas, but...

This time you just might know where the bear shits in the buckwheat.

There are flaws in any personnel strategy. I think most of TT's ideas are sound. But we are getting bit in the ass by the way the league is set up. Even thought Thompson is a draft wiz, we have been drafting from some low spots. this has to get you after a period of time.

We are committed to growing our own tobacco and rolling our own cigs. But anything will decay over time. Thus, it takes us a long time to find out our young boys ain't panning out. So we draft an Alex Green and find out after 3 seasons that he wasn't getting it done. Injuries, sure, but that kid didn't have it. We aren't really hitting our high picks because they aren't as high as other teams high draft choices.

The system is getting us on one hand and on the other, we miss on some guys. Both lines are thin. When you don't have the power in the engine room, you don't have the power.

That said, I don't think there is much of a selection of quality lineman in vet FA. Where do we get the help we need with all our own FA's leaving? We will have to get creative. Sign a couple vet FA's, draft some good guys (& a safety, too) and fish and cut bait with our roster.

A tall order, but something has got to change and work better.

[woodbuck27]

Red, sometimes you are too emotional and come up with some half baked ideas, but...

This time you just might know where the bear shits in the buckwheat.

There are flaws in any personnel strategy. I think most of TT's ideas are sound. But we are getting bit in the ass by the way the league is set up. Even thought Thompson is a draft wiz, we have been drafting from some low spots. this has to get you after a period of time.

We are committed to growing our own tobacco and rolling our own cigs. But anything will decay over time. Thus, it takes us a long time to find out our young boys ain't panning out. So we draft an Alex Green and find out after 3 seasons that he wasn't getting it done. Injuries, sure, but that kid didn't have it. We aren't really hitting our high picks because they aren't as high as other teams high draft choices.

The system is getting us on one hand and on the other, we miss on some guys. Both lines are thin. When you don't have the power in the engine room, you don't have the power.

That said, I don't think there is much of a selection of quality lineman in vet FA. Where do we get the help we need with all our own FA's leaving? We will have to get creative. Sign a couple vet FA's, draft some good guys (& a safety, too) and fish and cut bait with our roster.

A tall order, but something has got to change and work better.

TT is definitely scrathin' his head now and feeling (maybe?) a tad hot at the back of his neck.

What we see now is best left to >>> a wait and see approach.

That first before we hit 'the Panic Switch' and demand that everyone gets flushed down the toilet.

A lot of pressure on Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy right now to do the exact right things. Let's hope their really intelligent.

PACKERS !

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

TT is definitely scrathin' his head now and feeling (maybe?) a tad hot at the back of his neck.

What we see now is best left to >>> a wait and see approach.

That first before we hit 'the Panic Switch' and demand that everyone gets flushed down the toilet.

A lot of pressure on Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy right now to do the exact right things. Let's hope their really intelligent.

PACKERS !


As long as part of the exact right things is to flush Capers and Slocum down the toilet....just saying.