What is needed for you to enjoy, have fun watching the Packers?

[Patler]

A few threads have been started, and many comments made that:
- GB is no fun to watch
- the games are not enjoyable
- the team has no heart
- the players have quit, aren't trying, etc.
- there is no point in watching until next year
- etc., etc., etc.

I will enjoy watching the Packer games, regardless. Maybe it is from having followed the Packers through the '70s and '80s, but it doesn't take a win, or even a closely competitive game for me to look forward to watching the game I have recorded. I enjoy watching even blow out losses because I can learn things about the team from them. I raised a bunch of athletic kids, and enjoyed their games regardless of the outcome because of the personal interest I had in them and their friends. I seem to have the same personal interest, but in a detached cut-throat perspective for the Packer players.

It is worthwhile watching the Detroit game, and I will rewind and replay many plays to learn what I can about this team. Even if they continue to get blown out, I will enjoy watching to see:

- What makes Flynn tick as a QB. I have had this thought that maybe he could become a long term backup for GB, but now I am not so sure. I want to understand what went wrong for him in Detroit. I expect to see more of Tolzien, too. I will enjoy watching him, regardless of how he actually performs.

- It's a very small sample, and during throw-away time in the game, but I will focus on Derek Sherrod's six plays from scrimmage. I look forward to seeing him get more playing time.

- The shine has been dulling on Bakhtiari now for a couple weeks. Is he hitting the "rookie wall" or are teams getting tape on him and figuring out what he struggles with the most? The next few games will be interesting to watch for this reason, regardless of how the team does overall.

- I want to focus on some of Lang at center. EDS is a FA and could be lost. Is Lang an option there or not? If he is, and if Bakhtiari proves his worth as a tackle, and/or if Sherrod begins to show 1st round ability, could we see Bulaga retuen next year as a guard? With Bulaga's injury history, I think playing him at guard makes some sense if you can otherwise field two decent and physically-reliable tackles. I think Rodgers can deal with weakness at a guard spot easier than he can with a backup at tackle.

- I am anxious to watch Boykin, regardless. I want to see more of Bostick, too. His performances have been very inconsistent so far, but he is raw and hasn't played much.

- Nelson, Jones and Lacy are fun to watch just for their individual performances. The same can be said for the punting of Tim Masthay.


On defense I want to see if we get any answers to the following questions:
- Is Pickett done?
- What is Raji worth?
- Why did they feel the need to keep Boyd on the roster?
- Will D. Jones emerge?
- Is it worth trying to re-sign Neal, now as a linebacker?
- Will they let Perry play on the right side, where he seems much more comfortable?
- Matthews is always fun to watch, but is he really as good as we think? (someone else riased this)
- I am confused by our CBs. I very much want to sift through there performances.
- What's wrong with Burnett?
- Is Richardson anything more than a backup and ST performer?

Yes, I will very much enjoy the rest of the season, even if they don't win another game.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I too will do more studying of players to see who should go and who should stay (even though I don't make those decisions). This actually should add a level of enjoyment to the games. But I will go a step further, and say I hope we don't win another game, we need too much new talent to be consistently picking at the middle to bottom of the pile. And yes, I realize that comment will likely get me banned from Rat city....

[Patler]

But I will go a step further, and say I hope we don't win another game, we need too much new talent to be consistently picking at the middle to bottom of the pile. And yes, I realize that comment will likely get me banned from Rat city....

I have never worried about that, because I have seen the Packers with high draft 1st round choices and ending up with Mandarich, Fullwood, Buckley and Reynolds who did little or nothing for them, and even others like Hawk who never play up to the hopes had when they were drafted high. In subsequent rounds, TT has been good at moving up if he sees someone he wants.

[gbgary]

What is needed for you to enjoy, have fun, watching the Packers?

a hot, WILLING, blonde. lol

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bench the deadwood: Newhouse, Pickett, Flynn. Several others.
Play guys with possible future, you know who.


Send Cobb & Rodgers to Florida for R & R & R. (rest, relaxation, rehab)

[Pugger]

Bench the deadwood: Newhouse, Pickett, Flynn. Several others.
Play guys with possible future, you know who.


Send Cobb & Rodgers to Florida for R & R & R. (rest, relaxation, rehab)

I wouldn't call Pickett deadwood. He was playing very well earlier this year before he injured his knee.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think there are several players who might be deadwood because they are not 100% healthy - Pickett, Brad Jones, Perry, Barclay

I think the Packers chose to play injured players against Detroit out of desperation and it backfired. Although, hard to argue results would be different going with backups

[Pugger]

I think there are several players who might be deadwood because they are not 100% healthy - Pickett, Brad Jones, Perry, Barclay

I think the Packers chose to play injured players against Detroit out of desperation and it backfired. Although, hard to argue results would be different going with backups

I don't call injured players deadwood. IMO deadwood are guys like Newhouse who just are not good players and shouldn't be on our roster.

[denverYooper]

I don't call injured players deadwood. IMO deadwood are guys like Newhouse who just are not good players and shouldn't be on our roster.

I think he's just referring to this year and them at this point just being in the way of evaluating young guys for the rest of the year.

[woodbuck27]

Patler did you see the thread I placed on the forum yesterday.:

See the thread ... " Packers @ Lions Game Review ... OT Derek Sherrod's Performance ... and more. "

I did exactly as you propose to do and it was a terrific vehicle for learning. Actually Mae and I worked on that together. I wanted her views.

I'm interested in what you see compared to what I saw....ie OT >>>RT Derek Sherrod's 6 snaps.

How you viewed the performance of certain players that I felt certainly under performed.

Who stood out in that game @ Ford Field for our side.

Etc. Etc.

It's an interesting objective challenge.

Have fun with that Patler.

[denverYooper]

I'll always enjoy the Packers, but them not being a top team means they're not on TV as much out here in Denver.

I'm also interested in seeing some of the rookies get more snaps. I'd like to see Datone Jones and Sherrod more. I'd like to see Tolzien get more starts if Rodgers can't go, and I'd like to see them mix it up on D a bit more. There's a good chance that this forces TT/M3 to re-think the staff in a lot of spots, and I hope this brings some much-needed shakeups there. Personally, I'd like to see Capers let go and one of the other coaches given a shot at DC for 4 games, but I don't see that happening.

[Patler]

Patler did you see the thread I placed on the forum yesterday.:

See the thread ... " Packers @ Lions Game Review ... OT Derek Sherrod's Performance ... and more. "

I did exactly as you propose to do and it was a terrific vehicle for learning. Actually Mae and I worked on that together. I wanted her views.

I'm interested in what you see compared to what I saw....ie OT >>>RT Derek Sherrod's 6 snaps.

How you viewed the performance of certain players that I felt certainly under performed.

Who stood out in that game @ Ford Field for our side.

Etc. Etc.

It's an interesting objective challenge.

Have fun with that Patler.

Ya, I did see that thread. Nice write-up Woody!

I've only watched bits and pieces of the Detroit game so far. Had lots of company for Thanksgiving, kids coming and going, etc. Also got started on my outside Christmas decorations (which seem to take me just a little bit longer every year, now). I hope to watch it the next few evenings.

But, I don't claim to have any particular knowledge about what they should or shouldn't do in any given situation, so I just develop general impressions about a kid. I will simply look to see what situations seem to bother Flynn, if Lang looked to be accomplishing anything at center, if Sherrod looks to be moving well, even if getting beaten, if Boyd was being manhandled or looked to be providing resistance, etc. As far as details of technique, I will look to others for that.

[run pMc]

While the outcomes of the games have been hard, that's not enough to prevent me from tuning in.
I remember the bad ol' days. The Rodgers injury exposed some flaws with this team that TT/M3 will have to confront. Long term, I think this will help the team.
It's not enough to say they draft earlier each round or get an easier schedule next year; this is about seeing who can play and who can't, and trying to build a defense that can carry a team for a game or three. i seem to recall the 2010 team having a few good games on the defensive side of the ball (looking it up, they held 6 teams under 10 points in the regular season, including a 9-0 shutout vs. NYJ).

This team doesn't have that defense, and the 2012 draft really hasn't helped them this year like they were counting on (Perry, Worthy, Hayward, Daniels, McMillian, Manning,etc.).

There's enough things with personnel to merit watching. Rodgers could come back and light things up...who knows. It beats waiting for TC to start and having nothing but baseball. ;)

[pittstang5]

What is needed for you to enjoy, have fun watching the Packers?

- One word: IMPROVEMENT

I keep seeing the same shit week in and week out. Poor to no tackling, receivers running free in the secondary, players giving up on plays (Newhouse being the biggest culprit), special teams coverage units making returners look like Desmond Howard, Linebackers hitting the wrong gap, poor play calling (Off. & Def.) - where does it end. We know the issues, the Packer staff knows the issues. Hell, McCarthy keeps saying things will be fixed, addressed, worked on - whatever excuse he can give to appease the media, but I do not see results.

This team is a mess and I have no reason to believe it will be fixed this year anymore. Packer games are no longer a priority for me to watch on Sunday anymore. Even with that said, I will still watch them, I just won't be rearranging my schedule to do so.

[digitaldean]

What is needed for me to enjoy it?
FUNDAMENTALS in coaching and player performance
How about not running into your own DB in pass coverage (which has happened at least once or twice in the past several games)
How about just wrapping up and tackling low instead of trying for the ball strip all the time?
How about knowing how many men are on the field at all times (12 men on off AND def is inexcusable)
How about, to quote M3, "getting off the damn block" and playing like you actually WANT a big contract? (e.g., BJ Raji in the 2nd half of the season)

If A-Rod is truly done for the year, then start Tolzien the rest of the way and keep Newhouse inactive for the rest of season. He is the most useless OL we've had in decades.

If they can at least block, tackle and perform ST better, I can better stomach the results, win, lose or draw.

[Joemailman]

Is it my imagination, or had Raji done absolutely nothing since the story came out a few weeks ago about him turning down an 8 million per year offer from the Packers? If he is intent on going into free agency, you would think he would at least be motivated to impress the other GM's in the league.

[bobblehead]

To sum up the thread, we all want to see guys who we aren't quite sure about show us if they belong or not. We are all prepping for next season (although we still have about a 10% shot at the playoffs). We want to see things that give us hope for next year.

[pbmax]

Much easier to tell who can play when the team is struggling and performances are uneven. Can lead you to overvalue players who freelance though. I enjoy rebuilding, esp. when its not from scratch which would be true for this team.

If they do get eliminated, I don't expect M3 to toss out the backups until late. But I will enjoy watching them more than the starters.

[Rutnstrut]

For me the difference between the teams of the 70's and 80's and now is that back then we had MUCH lower expectations. Those teams were terrible, and we just never expected a lot. We have been accustomed to a decent team for a while now, so seeing this bad is quite a shock. While IMO the writing has been on the wall with TT's complacency and refusal to go after free agents. I think a losing season and a total house cleaning, from TT down would be the best thing for this team. Of course the TT/stubby sack jockeys will respond by saying how great they both are.

[Rutnstrut]

Is it my imagination, or had Raji done absolutely nothing since the story came out a few weeks ago about him turning down an 8 million per year offer from the Packers? If he is intent on going into free agency, you would think he would at least be motivated to impress the other GM's in the league.

Not your imagination, but he's done pretty much nothing all season. He's a worthless, overpayed, POS.

[Joemailman]

For me the difference between the teams of the 70's and 80's and now is that back then we had MUCH lower expectations. Those teams were terrible, and we just never expected a lot. We have been accustomed to a decent team for a while now, so seeing this bad is quite a shock. While IMO the writing has been on the wall with TT's complacency and refusal to go after free agents. I think a losing season and a total house cleaning, from TT down would be the best thing for this team. Of course the TT/stubby sack jockeys will respond by saying how great they both are.

So let me get this straight. Because we have high expectations, you want to get rid of the people who are responsible for us having high expectations? This team has had 4 straight playoff appearances and one Lombardi Trophy and you want to clean house because we might miss the playoffs after our QB got hurt? If the Packers were to can TT and MM, the rush by other teams to sign those guys would look like Walmart on Black Friday. Or Thanksgiving I guess.

[pbmax]

Not your imagination, but he's done pretty much nothing all season. He's a worthless, overpayed, POS.

This is untrue. He was doing a fine job of occupying blockers and allowing LBs to run for a tackle unimpeded earlier this season. And he was essentially taken off the pass rush nickel to save reps, so its hard to ding him for a low sack total.

What has gone wrong since is not entirely his fault, though his answer isn't helping. Pickett is not holding up to double teams well this year. Raji has gotten too comfortable with one on one blocking and not made teams pay with good leverage, forcing teams to double him.

But worse has been the revolving door at LB, as a parade of ILBs and OLBs have made a hash of whatever opportunities they get. They are not all clean looks, but they have had opportunities.

The resulting catastrophe has led to Raji free lancing and jetting into backfields. He does occasionally make a play, but more often he simply leaves an open gap behind him.

[Rutnstrut]

So let me get this straight. Because we have high expectations, you want to get rid of the people who are responsible for us having high expectations? This team has had 4 straight playoff appearances and one Lombardi Trophy and you want to clean house because we might miss the playoffs after our QB got hurt? If the Packers were to can TT and MM, the rush by other teams to sign those guys would look like Walmart on Black Friday. Or Thanksgiving I guess.

In short yes, IMO this team is terrible even if Rodgers didn't get hurt. He doesn't play defense, and that's the biggest weakness on this team. Some shit should come down on TT/stubby for not firing Capers last year, for putting all their eggs in one basket QB wise, and for also not getting some free agent talent. Say what you want about free agency being a folly, but it looks pretty successful in Seattle. There needs to be some big changes, yet there won't be.

[Smidgeon]

I enjoy watching the Packers regardless. The only time I shut off a game early is when the game goes into kneel down at the end. I'm a fan, win or lose.

But the one thing I'm watching for is, I think, central to why the defense has regressed:
Who on defense is going to develop into the next star? Nobody has stepped up into the Woodson/Collins vacuum. And except for Perry when he's rushing from the right side, no defensive player seems to have taken it to the next level. They're talented, but not special (the Claymaker excluded, of course). I think this is why the defense looks bad. Nobody can predict where a player's plateau is. You can hardly blame that on T2. You get lucky or you don't. And you can't blame that on the coaches either (although you can blame all the missed assignments consistent across different personnel packages on them). So who's going to take the next step? It's not Hayward this year. Hopefully he comes back next year without significant damage. Who will it be? Options are DJones, Daniels, Perry, Shields...and that's about it.

Fingers crossed.

[woodbuck27]

I enjoy watching the Packers regardless. The only time I shut off a game early is when the game goes into kneel down at the end. I'm a fan, win or lose.

But the one thing I'm watching for is, I think, central to why the defense has regressed:
Who on defense is going to develop into the next star? Nobody has stepped up into the Woodson/Collins vacuum. And except for Perry when he's rushing from the right side, no defensive player seems to have taken it to the next level. They're talented, but not special (the Claymaker excluded, of course). I think this is why the defense looks bad. Nobody can predict where a player's plateau is. You can hardly blame that on T2. You get lucky or you don't. And you can't blame that on the coaches either (although you can blame all the missed assignments consistent across different personnel packages on them). So who's going to take the next step? It's not Hayward this year. Hopefully he comes back next year without significant damage. Who will it be? Options are DJones, Daniels, Perry, Shields...and that's about it.

Fingers crossed.

Solid Post with a focus on 'reality and now'.

Yes ..... what do we really have in terms of 'the new blood'?

PACKERS !

[Pugger]

In short yes, IMO this team is terrible even if Rodgers didn't get hurt. He doesn't play defense, and that's the biggest weakness on this team. Some shit should come down on TT/stubby for not firing Capers last year, for putting all their eggs in one basket QB wise, and for also not getting some free agent talent. Say what you want about free agency being a folly, but it looks pretty successful in Seattle. There needs to be some big changes, yet there won't be.

We were 5-2 before Rodgers got hurt. Yup, just terrible.

Seattle isn't paying their starting QB diddly squat so they can afford to dabble in FA.

[Pugger]

So let me get this straight. Because we have high expectations, you want to get rid of the people who are responsible for us having high expectations? This team has had 4 straight playoff appearances and one Lombardi Trophy and you want to clean house because we might miss the playoffs after our QB got hurt? If the Packers were to can TT and MM, the rush by other teams to sign those guys would look like Walmart on Black Friday. Or Thanksgiving I guess.

No shit. Fans like Rutnstrut think FA is the panacea to all of our ills.

[Freak Out]

I need the team to exist. Sure I want a SB every year but know that is not happening. :)

[Patler]

Some shit should come down on TT/stubby for .... putting all their eggs in one basket QB wise,

Actually, they didn't. They had a veteran backup QB, just like everyone argued they should the last couple years. Unfortunately, Wallace got hurt before it could be determined if they were right or wrong in having him there.

[Pugger]

Actually, they didn't. They had a veteran backup QB, just like everyone argued they should the last couple years. Unfortunately, Wallace got hurt before it could be determined if they were right or wrong in having him there.

A lot of people keep forgetting about that. We'll never know if Wallace would have eked out a couple of wins during this trying time but he had to be better than a grass green fresh off the PS QB or a noodle-armed guy who couldn't secure a backup job in Seattle, Oakland or Buffalo.

[woodbuck27]

We were 5-2 before Rodgers got hurt. Yup, just terrible.

Seattle isn't paying their starting QB diddly squat so they can afford to dabble in FA.


Please !

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/gb/green-bay-packers

Look at the scores and Packers Vs the competition before Aaron Rodgers went down:

Week 1... a LOSS to the San Fran 49ers SCORE 34 - 28.

Week 3 ... a LOSS to the Cincy Bengals SCORE 34 - 30

Week 8 ... A WIN over the Minnesota Vikings SCORE 44 - 31

Three other 'wins' over four teams, including Washington and Cleveland.

Do you see anything wrong there Pugger?

[Pugger]

Please !

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/gb/green-bay-packers

Look at the scores and Packers Vs the competition before Aaron Rodgers went down:

Week 1... a LOSS to the San Fran 49ers SCORE 34 - 28.

Week 3 ... a LOSS to the Cincy Bengals SCORE 34 - 30

Week 8 ... A WIN over the Minnesota Vikings SCORE 44 - 31

Three other 'wins' over four teams, including Washington and Cleveland.

Do you see anything wrong there Pugger?

The D giving up 30+ points? It was an issue but not many talked about it because our offense was good enough to over come it and we were winning more than we lost. Woody, why did you put quotes around "wins"? Did those wins not mean as much as when you beat a team by more than one score? This isn't the NCAA. You don't get extra credit for blowing out an opponent or winning by 1. All that matters is the W or the L.

[bobblehead]

For me the difference between the teams of the 70's and 80's and now is that back then we had MUCH lower expectations. Those teams were terrible, and we just never expected a lot. We have been accustomed to a decent team for a while now, so seeing this bad is quite a shock. While IMO the writing has been on the wall with TT's complacency and refusal to go after free agents. I think a losing season and a total house cleaning, from TT down would be the best thing for this team. Of course the TT/stubby sack jockeys will respond by saying how great they both are.

So you wanted FA acquisitions? Tell me who, in the offseason you would have spent money on to replace a projected starter? And yes, we have covered all the great safeties that were available this offseason to replace Jennings/McMillin

[woodbuck27]

The D giving up 30+ points? It was an issue but not many talked about it because our offense was good enough to over come it and we were winning more than we lost. Woody, why did you put quotes around "wins"? Did those wins not mean as much as when you beat a team by more than one score? This isn't the NCAA. You don't get extra credit for blowing out an opponent or winning by 1. All that matters is the W or the L.

I was focusing on the fact that three times with Aaron Rodgers behind Center the Packers 'D' allowed 30+ points. I see that as a sign that our defense was sketchy before AR went down. Well actually some Packer fans know that the Packer 'D' was weak entering this season (See the San Fran win over the Packers in an early exit from the playoffs last year) to prove that was the case and needed to be a focus for 'last off season'.

Right here on Packerrats that was discussed a great deal:

Recall the outstanding effort that wist43 made to convince Packerrats of this fact! I've agreed that wist43 was correct. That was obvious.

" Woody, why did you put quotes around "wins"? Did those wins not mean as much as when you beat a team by more than one score? This isn't the NCAA. You don't get extra credit for blowing out an opponent or winning by 1. All that matters is the W or the L. " Pugger

Your redirecting this conversation from a focus on the Packers 'D'... to wins and margins of wins. We're discussing the Packers quality of competence on the defensive side of the ball Pugger.

All the same:

Yes a 'W' is a win. I don't care by how many points the Packers take a win. Win by ' one point ' or win by ' 30 points ' is all the same to me in the 'W' column.

In order to be called a balanced and strong team that team should have a measure of solid strength defensively. It shouldn't be one way or the other but be balanced on both sides of the ball. A solid to great defensive team has to have the offensive strength to put up enough points for the 'W'.

As to this part:

and .... " three other 'wins' over four teams, including Washington and Cleveland. " woodbuck27

That should have read :

Four not Three other 'wins' over four teams, including Washington and Cleveland.

When I discovered your post to me it was too late to revise that.

Note:

I mentioned Washington and Cleveland because these are teams that are considered weaker in the NFL with 3 and 4 'W's respectively.

PACKERS !

[Patler]

For me the difference between the teams of the 70's and 80's and now is that back then we had MUCH lower expectations. Those teams were terrible, and we just never expected a lot. We have been accustomed to a decent team for a while now, so seeing this bad is quite a shock. While IMO the writing has been on the wall with TT's complacency and refusal to go after free agents. I think a losing season and a total house cleaning, from TT down would be the best thing for this team. Of course the TT/stubby sack jockeys will respond by saying how great they both are.

In other words, we have been spoiled. I can agree with that. On the other hand, I have been around enough good athletic teams for enough years to realize that sometimes a season goes in the crapper. It happens even when you think you have a "perfect" team, and the 2013 Packers were not that by any stretch.

TT is complacent? You think so? I don't. He turns over a very large portion of his roster every year. That is anything but complacent.

The FA thing? I firmly believe it is mostly fools gold. But, we (collectively, as a group) have gone around and around on that many times. I guess we will just disagree on that.

[sharpe1027]

Probably not necessary, but a cold beer helps.

[bobblehead]

Say what you want about free agency being a folly, but it looks pretty successful in Seattle. There needs to be some big changes, yet there won't be.

yea, it works great for the most active teams in FA, the Redskins, the Vikings, the dream team eagles, and don't forget about the most active team last year, the titans. But we definately should have chased that big name FA safety ed reed, he has a few years left. TT is such a fool.

[Patler]

Say what you want about free agency being a folly, but it looks pretty successful in Seattle. There needs to be some big changes, yet there won't be.
yea, it works great for the most active teams in FA, the Redskins, the Vikings, the dream team eagles, and don't forget about the most active team last year, the titans. But we definately should have chased that big name FA safety ed reed, he has a few years left. TT is such a fool.

Not only that, there is a lot of the story yet to play out in Seattle, too. So far, they have accomplished good season's records last year and this and a single playoff win. They are carrying $5 million in dead money for just Flynn and Winfield, and a total of almost $8 million in dead money. It is manageable this year for them, partly because they have little to nothing invested in a QB, and they were building from a roster that had won 23 games the four seasons prior to last year.

But, an interesting thing is shaping up in Seattle. They have active contracts that will count for over $125 M against the 2014 salary cap, and have 18 players poised to enter free agency, including Michael Bennett, Golden Tate and other starters. Even if they let all of them walk, and replace 18 roster spots with rookies, there is substantial cost to add to the $125M in active contracts. They have $88M already against the 2015 salary cap. Some of the larger ones have substantial dead money costs in 2014 and 2015 if the players are released. To be sure, some can be cut with substantial caps savings and little impact on the team (like Sidney Rice), but others would be missed on the field. On top of that, eventually they will have to pay Russell Wilson and some other young players, like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas.

They rolled $10M. from 2012 into 2013, and have spent most of all they have for this year. They will have an effective cap limit that will be less in 2014 than what they have this year.

Being a player in FA is one thing when you have an under-performing roster, a cheap starting QB and cap space to make mistakes. It will be interesting to see how active they remain in FA as their salary cap tightens. Even TT was relatively active in FA his first few years in GB, too. It will also be interesting to see if they have something that can be maintained for an extended time, as the Packers have.

[Fritz]

Not only that, there is a lot of the story yet to play out in Seattle, too. So far, they have accomplished good season's records last year and this and a single playoff win. They are carrying $5 million in dead money for just Flynn and Winfield, and a total of almost $8 million in dead money. It is manageable this year for them, partly because they have little to nothing invested in a QB, and they were building from a roster that had won 23 games the four seasons prior to last year.

But, an interesting thing is shaping up in Seattle. They have active contracts that will count for over $125 M against the 2014 salary cap, and have 18 players poised to enter free agency, including Michael Bennett, Golden Tate and other starters. Even if they let all of them walk, and replace 18 roster spots with rookies, there is substantial cost to add to the $125M in active contracts. They have $88M already against the 2015 salary cap. Some of the larger ones have substantial dead money costs in 2014 and 2015 if the players are released. To be sure, some can be cut with substantial caps savings and little impact on the team (like Sidney Rice), but others would be missed on the field. On top of that, eventually they will have to pay Russell Wilson and some other young players, like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas.

They rolled $10M. from 2012 into 2013, and have spent most of all they have for this year. They will have an effective cap limit that will be less in 2014 than what they have this year.

Being a player in FA is one thing when you have an under-performing roster, a cheap starting QB and cap space to make mistakes. It will be interesting to see how active they remain in FA as their salary cap tightens. Even TT was relatively active in FA his first few years in GB, too. It will also be interesting to see if they have something that can be maintained for an extended time, as the Packers have.


Looks like it's "win now" in Seattle, or else. This surprised me, given that the management over there does have ties to the Ted Thompson way, which is financially more conservative.

If Seattle wins it all this year, you could make an argument for doing it that way, just as you could make an argument for doing it Ted's way, given that under his watch the Pack as a SB win.

[Patler]

If Seattle wins it all this year, you could make an argument for doing it that way, just as you could make an argument for doing it Ted's way, given that under his watch the Pack as a SB win.

Yes, you could; unless it all falls apart over the next few seasons. The Packers have been relevant in playoff discussions for the last 20+ years, except for a season or two here and there under all of the last 3 GMs. If Seattle wins the SB, then falls back into playoff irrelevance, I would argue their way is not the way to do it.

[denverYooper]

I'd like to see Datone Jones get some more snaps and hope to see Perry develop some more. With Rodgers back next year, a front with Matthews/Daniels/Jones/Perry *could* be fun to watch against teams that have to pass.

[Zool]

A new C, RG, RT who can actually block would be a nice change of pace. Watching QB's with good lines makes me sad for AR.

[MadScientist]

Things that I would enjoy:
Seeing Sherrod and Lane Taylor manning the right side and doing a credible job (just not so good that Campen keeps his job).
Seeing somebody not named Clay develop into a pass rusher so the QB has pressure without a blitz.
Seeing Tolzien start to look like a decent backup - hitting open guys, working with some tempo, leading the team to the end zone.
Seeing some actual arms out, drive through the ball carrier tackling by the defense.

In summary, seeing the Packers look like they are no where near the worst team in the NFL when they don't have AR.

[denverYooper]

Not only that, there is a lot of the story yet to play out in Seattle, too. So far, they have accomplished good season's records last year and this and a single playoff win. They are carrying $5 million in dead money for just Flynn and Winfield, and a total of almost $8 million in dead money. It is manageable this year for them, partly because they have little to nothing invested in a QB, and they were building from a roster that had won 23 games the four seasons prior to last year.

But, an interesting thing is shaping up in Seattle. They have active contracts that will count for over $125 M against the 2014 salary cap, and have 18 players poised to enter free agency, including Michael Bennett, Golden Tate and other starters. Even if they let all of them walk, and replace 18 roster spots with rookies, there is substantial cost to add to the $125M in active contracts. They have $88M already against the 2015 salary cap. Some of the larger ones have substantial dead money costs in 2014 and 2015 if the players are released. To be sure, some can be cut with substantial caps savings and little impact on the team (like Sidney Rice), but others would be missed on the field. On top of that, eventually they will have to pay Russell Wilson and some other young players, like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas.

They rolled $10M. from 2012 into 2013, and have spent most of all they have for this year. They will have an effective cap limit that will be less in 2014 than what they have this year.

Being a player in FA is one thing when you have an under-performing roster, a cheap starting QB and cap space to make mistakes. It will be interesting to see how active they remain in FA as their salary cap tightens. Even TT was relatively active in FA his first few years in GB, too. It will also be interesting to see if they have something that can be maintained for an extended time, as the Packers have.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/191s06rwtuk0lgif/original.gif

[Patler]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/191s06rwtuk0lgif/original.gif

FDR on the Seattle sidelines? ! !

[QBME]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/191s06rwtuk0lgif/original.gif

The Monopoly dude!

[woodbuck27]

Not only that, there is a lot of the story yet to play out in Seattle, too. So far, they have accomplished good season's records last year and this and a single playoff win. They are carrying $5 million in dead money for just Flynn and Winfield, and a total of almost $8 million in dead money. It is manageable this year for them, partly because they have little to nothing invested in a QB, and they were building from a roster that had won 23 games the four seasons prior to last year.

But, an interesting thing is shaping up in Seattle. They have active contracts that will count for over $125 M against the 2014 salary cap, and have 18 players poised to enter free agency, including Michael Bennett, Golden Tate and other starters. Even if they let all of them walk, and replace 18 roster spots with rookies, there is substantial cost to add to the $125M in active contracts. They have $88M already against the 2015 salary cap. Some of the larger ones have substantial dead money costs in 2014 and 2015 if the players are released. To be sure, some can be cut with substantial caps savings and little impact on the team (like Sidney Rice), but others would be missed on the field. On top of that, eventually they will have to pay Russell Wilson and some other young players, like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas.

They rolled $10M. from 2012 into 2013, and have spent most of all they have for this year. They will have an effective cap limit that will be less in 2014 than what they have this year.

Being a player in FA is one thing when you have an under-performing roster, a cheap starting QB and cap space to make mistakes. It will be interesting to see how active they remain in FA as their salary cap tightens. Even TT was relatively active in FA his first few years in GB, too. It will also be interesting to see if they have something that can be maintained for an extended time, as the Packers have.

Whatever the Seattle way is. It looks to me that if I had to lay a $100 dollar bill$ on some NFL team to win the SUPER BOWL. That money would ride happily not on the NE Patriots or Denver Broncos; rather on the Seattle Seahawks.

The eventual NFC Champion as I view it all today. Yes things can suddenly change but all the same and remaining focused:

Seattle's by far the best team I've seen in the NFL this season ... hands down easily the BEST.

The Seattle players do everything with an exclamation mark ! They are fired out of a cannon psyched up on both sides of the ball.

Russell Wilson at QB looks like $money$ to me with the poise and moxy of a eight season Vet.

The talking heads are almost surrendering this years MVP award to Peyton Manning. Is Seattle and Russell Wilson too far away to see? This young QB is sensational. He's also very blessed in a right minded confidence. He has a solid running game with Marshawn Lynch. He runs and pass's very well. He's composed... very cool, intelligent, hard working and self motivated.

The Seahawks defense is just outstanding. They move quick. It's like they have 'Rocket Shoes'.

I made a play in the Pro Pickem. I had a good week and decided to slap 12 remaining points I had formerly relegated to the Hawks all week on Drew Brees to come up big. To overcome the 12th man and show Pete Carroll and the Seattle Seahawks that they had work to do.

Phhhhffff ! Nice idea ... BAD PLAN ! :?:

That plan soon drifted out to the out house. It wasn't long before that game was solidified for a team like the Seattle Seahawks. They were well prepared, ready, set, go... smash em..... great.

This is a terrific football team. Some other team has to step it up and get it done against the Seahawks. That won't be easy.

It 'only' might be .... the Eagles, 49ers or an adjusted and healthy Saints with Sean Payton steering that ship.

As the second best bet I like what I'm seeing happen in Carolina. The Panthers are solid. Cam Newton looks awesome. Their 'D' is incredible. It's like a wet blanket on a bed bug too much for most NFL teams to handle. Look what that team has done recently to San Fran on the road, New England and a much improved Tamp Bay BUC's team.

I'm tired of this west coast San Fran Vs Seattle 'crunch up' conversation. I want a mammal Vs a bird to happen.

Panthers at Seahawks for the NFC Crown.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Winning a SB will quell a fan base for a long time. Just get that one and a lot is forgiven and will be forgiven in future years.

[woodbuck27]

Winning a SB will quell a fan base for a long time. Just get that one and a lot is forgiven and will be forgiven in future years.

I wanted another one last year.