Coaches Behaving Badly

[Kiwon]

Add your favorites....No, Jason Kidd and Kevin McHale don't count (wrong sport).

Mike Tomlin.........

He's already on the edge of a six-foot wide stripe that borders the field and then he "innocently" steps even further into the field of play. Look how close his foot came to the returner's.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/12/02/new-video-angle-shows-mike-tomlin-incident-league-considers-punishment/

Video from the national broadcast.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000289505/Jones-dodges-Tomlin-on-big-kickoff-return

[Guiness]

Been reading about that, looks minimum, he's in for a fine, but it could be a suspension and draft picks!!!

[MadScientist]

Draft picks would be out of line for that, but a big fine, and possibly a 1 game suspension is in order. They should have given the return guy a touchdown for that illegal interference.

[Guiness]

If 'they' (whoever 'they' is) decides it was intentional, draft picks are not out of line.

[woodbuck27]

Draft picks would be out of line for that, but a big fine, and possibly a 1 game suspension is in order. They should have given the return guy a touchdown for that illegal interference.

The talk / rumor.

A BIG fine for Pittsburg HC Mike Tomlin and maybe a team fine as well and in the order of $100 K$ for each.

Yikes !

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24315174/video-new-angle-of-mike-tomlinjacoby-jones-interference

VIDEO: New angle of Mike Tomlin-Jacoby Jones interference

By John Breech | CBSSports.com ... December 2, 2013 1:34 pm ET

and this ... Dear Lord:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10051819/baltimore-ravens-joe-flacco-accuses-pittsburgh-steelers-mike-tomlin-intentionally-interfering

Flacco: Mike Tomlin move intentional

Updated: November 29, 2013, 11:32 AM ET

By Jamison Hensley | ESPN.com

[Jimx29]

I'm waiting to see what shows up when they review how he claims that he always watches punt/kick returns on the jumbo screen.

[pbmax]

Darn. I had a gif of Belichick (or another Patriot coach, it wasn't entirely self-evident) actually interfering with a player trying to return to the field after having been sent OOB to the Patriots sideline. Gave him a walking pick and then a shoulder block. But cannot find it. Thought it was a Philly or Jet media site with the graphic. Had not seen it before but it was very funny.

[Little Whiskey]

When I watched the video it didn't look grossly intentional. It looks like he notices the return an coming at him and takes a side step to get out of his way. Maybe a fine but inseriously doubt draft picks will be taken. Did a strength and conditioning coach form a wall with a few others to block a gunner who was run out of bounds by the coverage team a couple years back? I don't remember draft picks taken from them and that was more blatent than this.

[Patler]

I think he knew exactly what he was doing. There are videos from at least 3 or 4 different angles that show him:

- moving to the very edge of the sideline stripe
- glancing over his shoulder as the carrier gets closer
- sticking his right foot into the field of play exactly as the ball carrier got there
- timing his jump left perfectly to avoid contact even while extending his right leg into the field of play
- snickering like a little boy sneaking candy from the candy jar as he walks away from the near miss.

Too many related actions for it to be truly unintended.

[red]

I think he knew exactly what he was doing. There are videos from at least 3 or 4 different angles that show him:

- moving to the very edge of the sideline stripe
- glancing over his shoulder as the carrier gets closer
- sticking his right foot into the field of play exactly as the ball carrier got there
- timing his jump left perfectly to avoid contact even while extending his right leg into the field of play
- snickering like a little boy sneaking candy from the candy jar as he walks away from the near miss.

Too many related actions for it to be truly unintended.

Agreed, he knew what he was doing the whole time

[woodbuck27]

I think he knew exactly what he was doing. There are videos from at least 3 or 4 different angles that show him:

- moving to the very edge of the sideline stripe
- glancing over his shoulder as the carrier gets closer
- sticking his right foot into the field of play exactly as the ball carrier got there
- timing his jump left perfectly to avoid contact even while extending his right leg into the field of play
- snickering like a little boy sneaking candy from the candy jar as he walks away from the near miss.

Too many related actions for it to be truly unintended.

Mike Tomlin is on the NFL Competition Committee and that fact taken in light of his 'whatever' gaffe last Thursday in Baltimore Vs the Ravens spells 'making an example' of his act and a heavy fine.

The NFL should also fine the Pittsburg Steelers. If that's the case I wouldn't expect any more admonishment ie a loss of draft picks would be justified.

That would be an excessive penalty or overkill IMO.

[MadScientist]

It would have been better if the returner gave Tomlin a stiff arm instead of cutting back inside. That would have made the interference more obvious to the refs as been funny as hell.

[hoosier]

No doubt, Jones should have plowed him over. And the refs would probably have been compelled to award him a TD in the process.

[Patler]

Mike Tomlin is on the NFL Competition Committee and that fact taken in light of his 'whatever' gaffe last Thursday in Baltimore Vs the Ravens spells 'making an example' of his act and a heavy fine.

The NFL should also fine the Pittsburg Steelers. If that's the case I wouldn't expect any more admonishment ie a loss of draft picks would be justified.

That would be excessive penalty or overkill IMO.

Another factor that might impact the punishment is that apparently recently (last week?) the league sent out a warning about sideline interference by coaches/players. Still further reason for the league to make an example of the Steelers/Tomlin.

Taking away a draft pick seems sort of a protracted penalty for an instantaneous infraction. If it was planned, taught, practiced or repeated, losing a draft choice would make more sense. So, while I agree with you that it wouldn't seem justified, I also won't be surprised if it happens. If it's a low pick (6th or 7th) it's more of an exclamation mark on the overall penalty and not a lot of substance

[channtheman]

From a few years ago...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_StMT78HE

[QBME]

From a few years ago...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_StMT78HE

IIRC, the coach was fined $25K, suspended and resigned.

[Pugger]

Mike Tomlin is on the NFL Competition Committee and that fact taken in light of his 'whatever' gaffe last Thursday in Baltimore Vs the Ravens spells 'making an example' of his act and a heavy fine.

The NFL should also fine the Pittsburg Steelers. If that's the case I wouldn't expect any more admonishment ie a loss of draft picks would be justified.

That would be excessive penalty or overkill IMO.

Tomlin should be removed from the NFL Competition Committee after that little stunt IMO.

[pbmax]

Ha, found it. Back in 2004 versus Colts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h42kTrO8ZA4

[Patler]

IIRC, the coach was fined $45K, then fired.

I found that extremely interesting at the time. It was clearly an organized, planned event. On the other hand, what did they do that was actually wrong? The stayed behind the white line. They established positions and just stayed in them. They did not move toward the player or take action to interfere. Unless there is a duty for sideline people to actively get out of the way, I'm not sure what was wrong.

[QBME]

I found that extremely interesting at the time. It was clearly an organized, planned event. On the other hand, what did they do that was actually wrong? The stayed behind the white line. They established positions and just stayed in them. They did not move toward the player or take action to interfere. Unless there is a duty for sideline people to actively get out of the way, I'm not sure what was wrong.

The coach(Sal Alosi) admitted that he intentionally tripped the player, as well as instructing a group of inactive players to form a wall to impede the players progress.

[woodbuck27]

IIRC, the coach was fined $25K, suspended and resigned.

When I select :

Reply With Quote Your post QBME... I don't read:

IIRC, the coach was fined $45K, then fired

I read ... well ... see above.

?

[pbmax]

The coach(Sal Alosi) admitted that he intentionally tripped the player, as well as instructing a group of inactive players to form a wall to impede the players progress.

Yes, as I recall, haven't watched the replay again, he stuck out his knee like he was warming up his quad.

[channtheman]

When I select :

Reply With Quote Your post QBME... I don't read:

IIRC, the coach was fined $45K, then fired

I read ... well ... see above.

?

Same here Woodbuck, I don't see the 45k thing...

[QBME]

Same here Woodbuck, I don't see the 45k thing...

I went back and edited the post to correct the fine amount and separation facts.

[Patler]

The coach(Sal Alosi) admitted that he intentionally tripped the player, as well as instructing a group of inactive players to form a wall to impede the players progress.

What is wrong with having your players stand in organized fashion? So long as they are in the area designated for them to be in, what rule prevents them from doing that? Are they obligated to get out of the way? The wall thing never seemed like a big deal to me, especially when it came out that a lot of teams do it, but with fewer guys. One coach said there always seems to be a bunch of O-linemen and D-linemen right where the gunner is forced out of bounds.

[Cheesehead Craig]

What is wrong with having your players stand in organized fashion? So long as they are in the area designated for them to be in, what rule prevents them from doing that? Are they obligated to get out of the way? The wall thing never seemed like a big deal to me, especially when it came out that a lot of teams do it, but with fewer guys. One coach said there always seems to be a bunch of O-linemen and D-linemen right where the gunner is forced out of bounds.

I agree with you on this. If they aren't inside that white line by the field, what's the problem?

Also agree on Tomlin. He did it intentionally, hope he gets fined big time.

[QBME]

What is wrong with having your players stand in organized fashion? So long as they are in the area designated for them to be in, what rule prevents them from doing that? Are they obligated to get out of the way? The wall thing never seemed like a big deal to me, especially when it came out that a lot of teams do it, but with fewer guys. One coach said there always seems to be a bunch of O-linemen and D-linemen right where the gunner is forced out of bounds.

I don't know if it's acceptable or not. All I know is he got fined $25K, lost his job, and the NFL fined the Jets $100K. Evidently somebody decided something was objectionable in that behavior.

[channtheman]

^^ I think the problem was, as someone mentioned, that Sal Alosi admitted he tripped the guy.

But I too agree, why is it wrong to stand on the sideline in the designated area? The real question I have is why hasn't the NFL done something about gunners being forced out of bounds on every punt return. This wouldn't be an issue if they made it a penalty to intentionally push players out of bounds such that it happens on every punt return.

[Patler]

I don't know if it's acceptable or not. All I know is he got fined $25K, lost his job, and the NFL fined the Jets $100K. Evidently somebody decided something was objectionable in that behavior.

Ya, I realize that. But we all should realize also by now that the NFL doesn't always act with complete detachment, logic and impartiality. For that reason, I found a lot of the commentary about that situation quite interesting at the time, and not the most well-reasoned. Feel the same still today.

[Patler]

^^ I think the problem was, as someone mentioned, that Sal Alosi admitted he tripped the guy.

But I too agree, why is it wrong to stand on the sideline in the designated area? The real question I have is why hasn't the NFL done something about gunners being forced out of bounds on every punt return. This wouldn't be an issue if they made it a penalty to intentionally push players out of bounds such that it happens on every punt return.

Agreed, the intentional act to trip should carry repercussions.

[QBME]

Ya, I realize that. But we all should realize also by now that the NFL doesn't always act with complete detachment, logic and impartiality. For that reason, I found a lot of the commentary about that situation quite interesting at the time, and not the most well-reasoned. Feel the same still today.

Now that's just crazy talk :)

[woodbuck27]

I went back and edited the post to correct the fine amount and separation facts.

OK ... that was pretty weird.

I was going to comment that I felt that if that coach was FIRED for being where he was on the sideline. IMO that action was too severe.

That....it was more probable that there was likely 'more' that made a decision to FIRE appropriate.

[woodbuck27]

I agree with you on this. If they aren't inside that white line by the field, what's the problem?

Also agree on Tomlin. He did it intentionally, hope he gets fined big time.

I suggest you check this matter and Mike Tomlin out carefully before you decide that he acted intentionally.

Look at Mike Tomlin's body position (or his back completely to the play or Jacoby Jones kick return) and the timing before he realizes he has to move quickly away from the sideline or possibly impede that return.

Mike Tomlin is totally concentrating on that return facing the Jumbotron . He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. His back is completely to that return. He's facing completely away from that runback.

The time he's positioned in a stationary position (viewing the jumbotron) to when he leaped to his left to clear his original position was several seconds.

The only way you might predicate his guilt; make an accusation of intention is that you would believe that Mike Tomlin might beforehand predict the exact path of JJ's kick return. That would hold 'no water'.

That's certainly not sensible and therefore there is no reasonable source of an accusation of pure intention.

Mike Tomlin is guilty of one thing and what we all are at times.

Stupidity in terms related to improper care.

For that he has totally owned up and makes a zero defense for his actions. He takes full responsibility and is ashamed given the honor he has for the rules of the game. He's ready to receive whatever penalty as the NFL deems necessary.

Mike Tomlin is IMO an honest dedicated and upright NFL HC and outstanding in terms of his respect and duty to the NFL and the game of football. He feels terrible that he made that error and doesn't beg anything after that.


woodbuck27....... My name is Ed.

[Guiness]

The only way you might predicate his guilt; make an accusation of intention is that you would believe that Mike Tomlin might beforehand predict the exact path of JJ's kick return. That would hold 'no water'.

woodbuck27....... My name is Ed.

beforehand? Why did he have to know it beforehand, he was watching it on the screen which undoubtedly showed him the return was moving over to his sideline.

[woodbuck27]

Tomlin should be removed from the NFL Competition Committee after that little stunt IMO.

If I asked you :

Did you carefully examine video of this incident?

and/or

Did you see that happen 'LIVE' or see the game and that incident?

and/or

Have you viewed Mike Tomlin's press interview on this incident?

and Pugger you responded yes to any of the above:

My next question would be. What makes you so sure that he deserves to be removed from the NFL Competition Committee?

You make reference to 'that little stunt'.

What makes you feel that Mike Tomlin acted in any 'stunt' fashion? I certainly saw nothing that would merit such an inference towords Mike Tomlin.

I'll add that neither will he deserve removal from the NFL Competition Committee by any power but himself over this matter.

I'm absolutely certain that he did no such thing as act intentionally to impede Jacoby Jones kick return. The evidence overwhelmingly supports my position and that of anyone who merely takes the time to study this incident as plenty of material is available to do so.

[woodbuck27]

beforehand? Why did he have to know it beforehand, he was watching it on the screen which undoubtedly showed him the return was moving over to his sideline.

When he realized that was the case he promptly leaped to his left. That was the reaction of a man that was suddenly realizing just how close he was to being in that play Guiness.

[Guiness]

When he realized that was the case he promptly leaped to his left. That was the reaction of a man that was suddenly realizing just how close he was to being in that play Guiness.

Agreed, I doubt it was pre-meditated. If he had that in mind, he would've gotten a lowly quality control coach to wander his ass out there.

However, he has a responsibility to be aware of what his actions. Actus Reus is sufficient, the law refers to it as strict liability. He seems to realize this and has admitted fault, and is angling to have just himself punished, knowing anything directed at the team would hurt more.

[woodbuck27]

Agreed, I doubt it was pre-meditated. If he had that in mind, he would've gotten a lowly quality control coach to wander his ass out there.

However, he has a responsibility to be aware of what his actions. Actus Reus is sufficient, the law refers to it as strict liability. He seems to realize this and has admitted fault, and is angling to have just himself punished, knowing anything directed at the team would hurt more.

I strongly felt this watching him at his Press Conference. I hung onto every word and expression on his face.

He's demonstrated to me today that he's a solid man of certain ethical and professional integrity of the highest order. The Pittsburg Steelers are fortunate to have such a man in their organization.

I'm very impressed with Mike Tomlin today. I sensed from the questions of the media that they were as well.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Woody, see Patler's post on page one of this thread about it. He nails it perfectly as to what happens. I agree 100% on it.

[hoosier]

If I asked you :

Did you carefully examine video of this incident?

and/or

Did you see that happen 'LIVE' or see the game and that incident?

and/or

Have you viewed Mike Tomlin's press interview on this incident?

and Pugger you responded yes to any of the above:

My next question would be. What makes you so sure that he deserves to be removed from the NFL Competition Committee?

You make reference to 'that little stunt'.

What makes you feel that Mike Tomlin acted in any 'stunt' fashion? I certainly saw nothing that would merit such an inference towords Mike Tomlin.

I'll add that neither will he deserve removal from the NFL Competition Committee by any power but himself over this matter.

I'm absolutely certain that he did no such thing as act intentionally to impede Jacoby Jones kick return. The evidence overwhelmingly supports my position and that of anyone who merely takes the time to study this incident as plenty of material is available to do so.


Don't be a pompous fool. There is no "overwhelming" evidence, just a bunch of gestures and explanations that could (in the best case) indicate carelessness but which are also (worst case) consistent with an attempt to cheat and get away with it. For the record, it looked to me like Tomlin stuck his foot out to try to trip or redirect Jones and then quickly drew it back in an effort to look innocent. But I also know from experience that gestures are always open to interpretation.

[QBME]

Don't be a pompous fool. There is no "overwhelming" evidence, just a bunch of gestures and explanations that could (in the best case) indicate carelessness but which are also (worst case) consistent with an attempt to cheat and get away with it. For the record, it looked to me like Tomlin stuck his foot out to try to trip or redirect Jones and then quickly drew it back in an effort to look innocent. But I also know from experience that gestures are always open to interpretation.

Agree completely. What was he doing that close to the sideline to begin with? I'm confident he could see the jumbotron just as well 10 feet away from the sideline where he was supposed to be in the first case. He's been around long enough and knows good and well where he should, and shouldn't, be.

[pbmax]

He's not looking at the JumbTron.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaNX0DcCIAA4aBR.jpg

[woodbuck27]

Woody, see Patler's post on page one of this thread about it. He nails it perfectly as to what happens. I agree 100% on it.

Well then I disagree with your position and Patler's and I'm not even cautiously claiming that position.

Have you studied the available video?

No you didn't ! Why do I know that? Because if you did you would accept my conclusion. A conclusion that trumps mere speculation and illogical reasoning based on any inference.

There's no way in my careful analysis that I could find that Mike Tomlin acted with pre-meditation for the action he'll pay a heavy fine for. That man didn't even focus himself on that position. Why do you want to judge his integrity?

What he did was simply wrong and well frankly stupid in terms of not only the severe fine he'll suffer his bank account; but moreso the possibility of an injury. He neglected himself in what is now deemed a severe violation of the rules of NFL football .

[pbmax]

Intent doesn't matter in this case. He was in the stripe and was not supposed to be.

Fine him, regardless of intentions.

[woodbuck27]

Don't be a pompous fool. There is no "overwhelming" evidence, just a bunch of gestures and explanations that could (in the best case) indicate carelessness but which are also (worst case) consistent with an attempt to cheat and get away with it. For the record, it looked to me like Tomlin stuck his foot out to try to trip or redirect Jones and then quickly drew it back in an effort to look innocent. But I also know from experience that gestures are always open to interpretation.

and with your response you deserve this in return.......

[woodbuck27]

Intent doesn't matter in this case. He was in the stripe and was not supposed to be.

Fine him, regardless of intentions.

Absolutely and Mike Tomlin is totally on with that fine whatever it is.

Mike Tomlin feels horrible that he did this. His integrity cannot in this incident be attacked with merit.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Well then I disagree with your position and Patler's and I'm not even cautiously claiming that position.

Have you studied the available video?

No you didn't ! Why do I know that? Because if you did you would accept my conclusion. A conclusion that trumps mere speculation and illogical reasoning based on any inference.

There's no way in my careful analysis that I could find that Mike Tomlin acted with pre-meditation for the action he'll pay a heavy fine for. That man didn't even focus himself on that position. Why do you want to judge his integrity?

What he did was simply wrong and well frankly stupid in terms of not only the severe fine he'll suffer his bank account; but moreso the possibility of an injury. He neglected himself in what is now deemed a severe violation of the rules of NFL football .

Are you seriously this arrogant all the time?

I did look at the video and came to a different conclusion than you did. End of story.

But feel free to try and talk down to those who disagree with you by telling them how much smarter you are.

[QBME]

He's not looking at the JumbTron.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaNX0DcCIAA4aBR.jpg

Probably because he heard a whole bunch of feet galloping towards him and was perplexed as to what that could mean thereby becoming distracted from watching the big TV. Maybe he was daydreaming.

An interesting photo angle. If the returner was running at a 5.0/40 yard clip at that point, he was 5/8 of a second away from a collision, and Tomlin hadn't even started his little bunny hop maneuver yet.

[woodbuck27]

Are you seriously this arrogant all the time?

I did look at the video and came to a different conclusion than you did. End of story.

But feel free to try and talk down to those who disagree with you by telling them how much smarter you are.

I watched it go down LIVE.

I took my personal time to evaluate this incident and it's my position that Mike Tomlin didn't act intentionally to intrude on Jacoby Jones return.

I'm sticking to my analysis. That's a conviction not arrogance. :no:

[pbmax]

He is not looking at the JumboTron, he is watching the field. He jumps out of the way with plenty of time, meaning he was paying attention to his peripheral vision. He does a little right leg kick out plant before he jumps back. He does not look at all surprised to find himself there.

http://media1.sulia.com/static/user_images/9/2013-11-29/cbf4f4ca-2b1f-4188-aac6-4efab70ed724.gif

[Cheesehead Craig]

There's actually a video out there of him taking a deliberate step closer to the field during the return. He steps right to the edge of the white line. He wouldn't do that if he was disoriented as to where he was, that would be a more meandering step if so, that's just logic. Moving 2-3 feet over wouldn't give him a better view of the jumbotron either.

Tomlin taking deliberate step (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/12/2/5166742/mike-tomlin-sideline-interference-video-new-angle-steelers-ravens)

[MadScientist]

Still don't see how the ref didn't call this. He had to go around Tomlin to keep up with the play. What are the rules about challenging on this one?

[Guiness]

Still don't see how the ref didn't call this. He had to go around Tomlin to keep up with the play. What are the rules about challenging on this one?

That floors me too. How did they not call this? And if his claims that he frequently watches KO returns on the Jumbotron are true, why has no one said anything to him about being out on the white stripe before???

[Kiwon]

That floors me too. How did they not call this? And if his claims that he frequently watches KO returns on the Jumbotron are true, why has no one said anything to him about being out on the white stripe before???

To err is human.....but some of the non-actions of the refs are beyond belief.

Case in point, Redskins-Giants game:

If you are the head referee or the in-the-booth replay official, how do you not stop the game, huddle the troops and correct the downs and distance when the headlinesman improperly usurps his authority and independently signals a 1st down when it's actually 3rd down?

The headlinesman should have corrected his own mistake and stopped the game once he saw the head ref signal 3rd down.

Others made mistakes as well but the headlinesman's decisions and non-decisions deserve special scrutiny.

[woodbuck27]

To err is human.....but some of the non-actions of the refs are beyond belief.

Case in point, Redskins-Giants game:

If you are the head referee or the in-the-booth replay official, how do you not stop the game, huddle the troops and correct the downs and distance when the headlinesman improperly usurps his authority and independently signals a 1st down when it's actually 3rd down?

The headlinesman should have corrected his own mistake and stopped the game once he saw the head ref signal 3rd down.

Others made mistakes as well but the headlinesman's decisions and non-decisions deserve special scrutiny.

Frankly from what I'm seeing the NFL officiating this season seems to me to be over the top too much and too bad.

Instead of conditions like the battle of the clock and wind direction and game time Temp. being key conditions to remain considerate of. Now the coach's have to be concerned about how the officials may see something or not and do something or not that upsets the almost natural order of the game of football itself.

It's getting to look to me as if the officials are an intrusion or an opponent in themselves.

[woodbuck27]

Updates on Mike Tomlin and Steelers' Potential Punishment for Sideline Blunder

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1870284-nfl-will-review-mike-tomlin-stepping-on-field-on-jacoby-jones-kick-return?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl

Later in the day (Monday, Dec. 2) word came out that while a suspension or fine may still be on the table, losing draft picks is not according to Fox Sports' Jay Glazer

[Kiwon]

Updates on Mike Tomlin and Steelers' Potential Punishment for Sideline Blunder

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1870284-nfl-will-review-mike-tomlin-stepping-on-field-on-jacoby-jones-kick-return?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl

Later in the day (Monday, Dec. 2) word came out that while a suspension or fine may still be on the table, losing draft picks is not according to Fox Sports' Jay Glazer

Frankly, the Rooney family is NFL royalty and it would take an especially egregious violation for them to be penalized with the loss of a draft pick. Yes, in the eyes of the NFL brass, I think some franchises are more equal than others.

[pbmax]

To err is human.....but some of the non-actions of the refs are beyond belief.

Case in point, Redskins-Giants game:

If you are the head referee or the in-the-booth replay official, how do you not stop the game, huddle the troops and correct the downs and distance when the headlinesman improperly usurps his authority and independently signals a 1st down when it's actually 3rd down?

The headlinesman should have corrected his own mistake and stopped the game once he saw the head ref signal 3rd down.

Others made mistakes as well but the headlinesman's decisions and non-decisions deserve special scrutiny.

While it was egregious and wrong, that error I can understand more than failing to flag Tomlin. The refs in the Gmen/Washington game did not want to call an official timeout during a two minute drill. This has happened before when officials, who might talk between plays at any other time of the game suddenly get into hurry up mode along with the offense.

They SHOULD have called an official TO to straighten everyone out but I understand the motivation behind not wanting to. The Tomlin thing I don't get at all. Being in the stripe is enough for a flag.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Tomlin gets a 100k fine. NFL still considering other penalties.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10077849/mike-tomlin-fined-100k-pittsburgh-steelers-face-loss-picks

Hopefully he doesn't get disoriented when he has to find his checkbook to pay the fine.

[Kiwon]

While it was egregious and wrong, that error I can understand more than failing to flag Tomlin. The refs in the Gmen/Washington game did not want to call an official timeout during a two minute drill. This has happened before when officials, who might talk between plays at any other time of the game suddenly get into hurry up mode along with the offense.

They SHOULD have called an official TO to straighten everyone out but I understand the motivation behind not wanting to. The Tomlin thing I don't get at all. Being in the stripe is enough for a flag.

The headlinesman was the first domino. He signaled 1st down and moved the chain crew before the ref set the ball and signaled 3rd down. He was completely wrong. He gets his orders from the ref and acts accordingly. Mike Shanahan asked for a measurement and the headlinesman told him it wasn't necessary because it was a first down, again an error. That's why Shanahan went nuts when he saw it was 4th down after the incompletion. He complains to the headlinesman who says nothing.

The ref, Jeff Triplette must have missed the down marker and movement of the chains because he was hurrying to spot the ball and keep things moving. Regardless of the situation, the replay officials or whoever in the press box above the field should stop the action and set things right.

They stop the action all the time in the NBA to check replays, score things properly and/or add time on the clock. Fans rather the refs get things right according to the rules first and foremost. Al Michaels and Cris Collinsworth were right to go off on the officials like they did.

[woodbuck27]

Tomlin gets a 100k fine. NFL still considering other penalties.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10077849/mike-tomlin-fined-100k-pittsburgh-steelers-face-loss-picks

Hopefully he doesn't get disoriented when he has to find his checkbook to pay the fine.

Mike Tomlin had his method of payment already worked out/managed yesterday before the exact $dollar$ figure for the penalty/fine was made public.

Mike Tomlin as much said that he deserved fully to suffer a heavy fine.

So in terms of Mike Tomlin and using the word 'disorintated' have you used an appropriate word to slam him?

Have you really been following this story Cheesehead Craig ? You posted yesterday that you have but how can that be??

If so why would you act so ignorant? Does that look good on you? Do you like that? Like the way that feels?

Your hardly within any reason being fair to Mike Tomlin's integrity IMO.

That's OK... you somehow need to be that way.

If this is an unfair question ignore it before this board:

Who was the NFL MVP last season ?

You never got back to me on that story. My rebuttal of your stance on who would win the MVP.

Why was it that way with you?

[hoosier]

While it was egregious and wrong, that error I can understand more than failing to flag Tomlin. The refs in the Gmen/Washington game did not want to call an official timeout during a two minute drill. This has happened before when officials, who might talk between plays at any other time of the game suddenly get into hurry up mode along with the offense.

They SHOULD have called an official TO to straighten everyone out but I understand the motivation behind not wanting to. The Tomlin thing I don't get at all. Being in the stripe is enough for a flag.

Maybe, but I have never seen anyone flagged for it. Have you? Possible that the side judge or whoever it was was so focused on the play and that things were happening so fast that he couldn't really judge where exactly Tomlin was.

[Patler]

While it was egregious and wrong, that error I can understand more than failing to flag Tomlin. The refs in the Gmen/Washington game did not want to call an official timeout during a two minute drill. This has happened before when officials, who might talk between plays at any other time of the game suddenly get into hurry up mode along with the offense.

They SHOULD have called an official TO to straighten everyone out but I understand the motivation behind not wanting to. The Tomlin thing I don't get at all. Being in the stripe is enough for a flag.

I think they screwed up both, but I'm just the opposite of you. In the Tomlin situation, the nearest official had to be focused on whether the player stepped out of bounds, and he may not having fully appreciated where Tomlin was and what he did. He should have, but I can understand that he may not have. Throw in the fact that coaches commonly violate the white stripe without getting flagged, and the fact that Tomlin was in the way was probably not all that unusual.

I have a much harder time with the other. Misleading a team about down and distance in a two-minute drill is about as bad as it gets when the difference is between 3rd and something and 1st and 10.

Just my opinions.

[pbmax]

I think they screwed up both, but I'm just the opposite of you. In the Tomlin situation, the nearest official had to be focused on whether the player stepped out of bounds, and he may not having fully appreciated where Tomlin was and what he did. He should have, but I can understand that he may not have. Throw in the fact that coaches commonly violate the white stripe without getting flagged, and the fact that Tomlin was in the way was probably not all that unusual.

I have a much harder time with the other. Misleading a team about down and distance in a two-minute drill is about as bad as it gets when the difference is between 3rd and something and 1st and 10.

Just my opinions.

That is a fair point. If Shanahan was told it was 3rd down, or had to rely on the incorrect down marker, its egregious. I wonder if Tripplette even knew that had happened? His comments after it did not address that.

However on Tomlin, I think there were two refs on that sideline. Someone should have caught it. Its possible the League has encouraged non-enforcement.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Mike Tomlin had his method of payment already worked out/managed yesterday before the exact $dollar$ figure for the penalty/fine was made public.

Mike Tomlin as much said that he deserved fully to suffer a heavy fine.

So in terms of Mike Tomlin and using the word 'disorintated' have you used an appropriate word to slam him?

Have you really been following this story Cheesehead Craig ? You posted yesterday that you have but how can that be??

If so why would you act so ignorant? Does that look good on you? Do you like that? Like the way that feels?

Your hardly within any reason being fair to Mike Tomlin's integrity IMO.

That's OK... you somehow need to be that way.

If this is an unfair question ignore it before this board:

Who was the NFL MVP last season ?

You never got back to me on that story. My rebuttal of your stance on who would win the MVP.

Why was it that way with you?

I used the word disoriented as that is what Tomlin said he was during the play. So it was a dig on him. Sorry you took personal offense at something not directed at you. But that's your problem, not mine.

Again, yes I followed the story. I even posted more evidence of the video showing his deliberae step closer to the field of play during the return that I felt showed even more that his explanation wasn't all that valid in conjunction with what else has been posted of his actions.

Ignorant? I don't think so. But no amount of typing will convince you otherwise of that, so I won't bother.

So it's ok for you to post negative things about TT, but if I do it on Tomlin I'm a bad person. That sounds a bit hypocritical. But you seem to be ok with hypocrisy and once again, being condensending to someone who has a different viewpoint.

The MVP thing I'm totally lost on. I'll look through other threads as I don't know what posts you are referring to.

[Guiness]

That is a fair point. If Shanahan was told it was 3rd down, or had to rely on the incorrect down marker, its egregious. I wonder if Tripplette even knew that had happened? His comments after it did not address that.

However on Tomlin, I think there were two refs on that sideline. Someone should have caught it. Its possible the League has encouraged non-enforcement.

Isn't it a violation to even be on the white stripe, let alone the field? They had to notice that, but as Patler said, I think it's penalized slightly less often than holding on the OL.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Isn't it a violation to even be on the white stripe, let alone the field? They had to notice that, but as Patler said, I think it's penalized slightly less often than holding on the OL.
They should have called a 15 yd penalty on him. That's my understanding of what the officials should have done given he was on the field and interfered with the play.

[woodbuck27]

I used the word disoriented as that is what Tomlin said he was during the play. So it was a dig on him. Sorry you took personal offense at something not directed at you. But that's your problem, not mine.

Again, yes I followed the story. I even posted more evidence of the video showing his deliberae step closer to the field of play during the return that I felt showed even more that his explanation wasn't all that valid in conjunction with what else has been posted of his actions.

Ignorant? I don't think so. But no amount of typing will convince you otherwise of that, so I won't bother.

So it's ok for you to post negative things about TT, but if I do it on Tomlin I'm a bad person. That sounds a bit hypocritical. But you seem to be ok with hypocrisy and once again, being condensending to someone who has a different viewpoint.

The MVP thing I'm totally lost on. I'll look through other threads as I don't know what posts you are referring to.

You and I have totally opposite views and Mike Tomlin and intent or not in regards to what he did that was grossly wrong on his part. That's clearly how Mike Tomlin felt about it in the aftermath of this issue and for which he will pay a huge financial price.

Your totally within your rights to see it your way. I 'only' wanted to make sure in your strong opinion that you 'in fact' viewed the available video. That your position was based in your personal examination.

You obviously did. Too many posters have a big say/view in some thing and don't check it out thoroughly before standing here/there.

In terms of you ...referencing Patler's position to what seemed to me you bolstering yours. So I made an inquiry for that reason. I accept blame for being over jealous. I certainly get that way when anyone appears to be simply jumping on any band wagon. I get that way when anyone disappoints me somehow in terms of such weakness.

I apologize Cheesehead Craig if I offended you in my manner of challenge. In a degree of my assertiveness that might have been for you over the top.

We can surely agree to disagree.

Me and MM and / or TT.

I love the Green Bay Packers. When the GM and or HC of the Packers is in my honest view screwing up. I deserve the right as fan to object as strenuously as I might need to. I do use humor because as a fan I realize I'm not able to really offer anything truly constructive.

I exercise incredible strength to not get over frustrated. TT and MM do so much that is wrong in my view and ways as a human being and that totally in reference to their jobs and not anything else. They are certainly not right in all of their ways. I never imagine that what I feel and post here upsets either of them one small bit. I do expect that what I post may upset any member here and I try to handle that as it arises.

The thing I posted to you and last years MVP.

I may be mixing you up with an infrequent member. I got thinking about that after I saw this post. Your here often. This other member not so much I think.

That member challenged me on several counts and I responded to him appropriately on all of them. I came back with a strong counter and the poster never came back to me. He challenged me >>>I came back and he disappeared. That's disrespectful. That's a cowards way. He simply disappeared.

Between you and I and Packerrats he will remain anonymous.

I'll give this much or add this to also help you to understand any perceived verascity on my part and even which I never meant to deliver to you if you felt that way:

His poster name is like yours with a 'C'...... 'C...... form. I believe somehow I confused you with this other member.

Later....

GO PACK GO !

[Cheesehead Craig]

You and I have totally opposite views and Mike Tomlin and intent or not in regards to what he did that was grossly wrong on his part. That's clearly how Mike Tomlin felt about it in the aftermath of this issue and for which he will pay a huge financial price.

Your totally within your rights to see it your way. I 'only' wanted to make sure in your strong opinion that you 'in fact' viewed the available video. That your position was based in your personal examination.

You obviously did. Too many posters have a big say/view in some thing and don't check it out thoroughly before standing here/there.

In terms of you ...referencing Patler's position to what seemed to me you bolstering yours. So I made an inquiry for that reason. I accept blame for being over jealous. I certainly get that way when anyone appears to be simply jumping on any band wagon. I get that way when anyone disappoints me somehow in terms of such weakness.

I apologize Cheesehead Craig if I offended you in my manner of challenge. In a degree of my assertiveness that might have been for you over the top.

We can surely agree to disagree.

Me and MM and / or TT.

I love the Green Bay Packers. When the GM and or HC of the Packers is in my honest view screwing up. I deserve the right as fan to object as strenuously as I might need to. I do use humor because as a fan I realize I'm not able to really offer anything truly constructive.

I exercise incredible strength to not get over frustrated. TT and MM do so much that is wrong in my view and ways as a human being and that totally in reference to their jobs and not anything else. They are certainly not right in all of their ways. I never imagine that what I feel and post here upsets either of them one small bit. I do expect that what I post may upset any member here and I try to handle that as it arises.

The thing I posted to you and last years MVP.

I may be mixing you up with an infrequent member. I got thinking about that after I saw this post. Your here often. This other member not so much I think.

That member challenged me on several counts and I responded to him appropriately on all of them. I came back with a strong counter and the poster never came back to me. He challenged me >>>I came back and he disappeared. That's disrespectful. That's a cowards way. He simply disappeared.

Between you and I and Packerrats he will remain anonymous.

I'll give this much or add this to also help you to understand any perceived verascity on my part and even which I never meant to deliver to you if you felt that way:

His poster name is like yours with a 'C'...... 'C...... form. I believe somehow I confused you with this other member.

Later....

GO PACK GO !

Cool with me. Have a good one.

[Patler]

The concept of intent can mean different things.

Did Tomlin plan this out? Did he think about it ahead of time? Did he think to himself, "If a return is coming up the sideline, I will do this"? I am confident in saying no, Tomlin did not have the intent of forethought or planning.

But, in the heat of the moment, did he know what he was doing? Did he intentional do something very stupid? After watching his actions and listening to his comments then and now, my personal belief is yes. A dumb idea entered his head, and he acted on it.

I suspect we have all done some things in the moment, things we did fully knowing what we were doing, that with an extra second or two of reflection we would not have done. I know I have. I have asked myself, "what was I thinking. Why would I ever do that?" even though as I did it, my mind told me to do it. I think this was one such moment for Tomlin.

[woodbuck27]

The concept of intent can mean different things.

Did Tomlin plan this out? Did he think about it ahead of time? Did he think to himself, "If a return is coming up the sideline, I will do this"? I am confident in saying no, Tomlin did not have the intent of forethought or planning.

But, in the heat of the moment, did he know what he was doing? Did he intentional do something very stupid? After watching his actions and listening to his comments then and now, my personal belief is yes. A dumb idea entered his head, and he acted on it.

I suspect we have all done some things in the moment, things we did fully knowing what we were doing, that with an extra second or two of reflection we would not have done. I know I have. I have asked myself, "what was I thinking. Why would I ever do that?" even though as I did it, my mind told me to do it. I think this was one such moment for Tomlin.

Good..well thought out and...

Patler you may be correct.

I thought about this issue a lot last evening. I looked at the video dozens of times and his right foot moving 4-6 inches or whatever (Dear Lord) to his right before he jumped left bothered me in just this sense.

I wouldn't have taken any time to do it just that way as his position was.

I would have simply sprung left. I'm not him neither is he me in terms of style in getting out of the way.

So to me that became inconclusive in terms of intent.

I do know this...Packerrats is an overall learning experience that challenges Luminosity in my experience. :clap: for Packerrats.