The refs inability to review Williams INT without MM calling timeout...

[channtheman]

This is a pretty big deal that I don't think will get enough attention. The refs were not going to get the buzz to review the last INT in time, until MM called timeout.

The refs went into damage control mode and claim the buzz had come before we called timeout, but I don't really buy it. With the talk of review possibly going to one ref in a central location on Sundays, what does the NFL plan to do to make sure they buzz in quickly enough when they need to review the play?

I feel like a ref on the field should have the ability to, and if they already do, one should have automatically stopped play to allow time to see if that INT should be reviewed.

[CaptainKickass]

I strongly agree that the refs were shit in their operation. In order to play championship football since I can remember, one must beat 3 opponents.

1. Yourselves
2. The Opponent
3. The Officials

[red]

yup, if you're gonna flag and penalize coaches for throwing a challenge flag inside 2 minutes, then you damn well better do your fucking job and get the thing right. if there is any little doubt, then it needs to be reviews

dallas damn near got the snap off before m3 called the TO to buy more time

i don't know how one guy in one area could handle everything, i'm guessing its gonna be whole teams watching every game, with the head of refs as an overseer

[bobblehead]

The ref standing 3 feet away staring at the pick should be fired for waving it incomplete. Completely inexcusable missing that call from perfect position to see it. Then not reviewing it instantly...worse yet.

[red]

The ref standing 3 feet away staring at the pick should be fired for waving it incomplete. Completely inexcusable missing that call from perfect position to see it. Then not reviewing it instantly...worse yet.

that fat asshole even had glasses didn't he? he was right there with a clear few for the whole thing. and on the replay, the ball was inches off the ground. it really wasn't close

[pbmax]

I thought the broadcast said they gave the Packers back the TO because they HAD gotten buzzed by upstairs for the review?

[red]

I thought the broadcast said they gave the Packers back the TO because they HAD gotten buzzed by upstairs for the review?

thats what the ref said after they reviewed it and saw that not only should it have been reviewed automatically but that the call on the field was wrong

thats why chan said they were trying to cover their asses by giving us the TO back and saying they were buzzed before the TO was called

[Guiness]

yup, if you're gonna flag and penalize coaches for throwing a challenge flag inside 2 minutes, then you damn well better do your fucking job and get the thing right. if there is any little doubt, then it needs to be reviews

dallas damn near got the snap off before m3 called the TO to buy more time

i don't know how one guy in one area could handle everything, i'm guessing its gonna be whole teams watching every game, with the head of refs as an overseer

Except just ask Browns fans...getting the snap off doesn't always matter! Remember 'bottlegate'? I don't think I ever heard a decent explanation of why that review was allowed to happen, considering the refs put the ball down, and it got snapped.

[Guiness]

thats what the ref said after they reviewed it and saw that not only should it have been reviewed automatically but that the call on the field was wrong

thats why chan said they were trying to cover their asses by giving us the TO back and saying they were buzzed before the TO was called

Agreed, looked like a cya moment to me. If they'd already been buzzed, why did they announce the GB timeout?

[woodbuck27]

This is a pretty big deal that I don't think will get enough attention. The refs were not going to get the buzz to review the last INT in time, until MM called timeout.

The refs went into damage control mode and claim the buzz had come before we called timeout, but I don't really buy it. With the talk of review possibly going to one ref in a central location on Sundays, what does the NFL plan to do to make sure they buzz in quickly enough when they need to review the play?

I feel like a ref on the field should have the ability to, and if they already do, one should have automatically stopped play to allow time to see if that INT should be reviewed.

I want some official away from the playing surface to make those calls or 'buzz in' that an particular play must be reviewed to protect the integrity of the game.

I'm not sure that the Referee saw it?

The way Tony Romo reacted it looked like he did?

I sure saw it watching on the screen....and for certain saw that pick on the replay.

I was afraid that MM was going to allow it to pass or not call a TO for a review. I was alarmed that might just be ignored.

Hey I see a lot on the screen as I'm wired. The view is usually excellent. I want the guy to be that fella /lady that at least see's it as good/better than me.

That guy/gal isn't on the field/playing surface. He's/she's up TOP.

[pbmax]

In the last two minutes and for scoring plays, the review ref in the booth buzzes to ref that he needs to take a look.

[SkinBasket]

Weren't they supposed to review all turnovers inside 2 minutes as well as scores? The NFL is becoming worse than our federal government. So many rules that no one knows what the fuck is going on or what they're not supposed to be fucking up.

[woodbuck27]

Weren't they supposed to review all turnovers inside 2 minutes as well as scores? The NFL is becoming worse than our federal government. So many rules that no one knows what the fuck is going on or what they're not supposed to be fucking up.

Yup and the coach's don't seem to know what to do?

One week it's this way and next week that !

Confusion the order of the day.

[Freak Out]

Jerry $$$$ was involved and they got caught.

[pittstang5]

Weren't they supposed to review all turnovers inside 2 minutes as well as scores? The NFL is becoming worse than our federal government. So many rules that no one knows what the fuck is going on or what they're not supposed to be fucking up.


I think because it was not initially ruled a turnover, it cannot automatically be reviewed. If they called it an INT - then they would review it.


I watched the replay of the official eyeballing that play and when he came over and showed "Incomplete," I figured TWill bobbled another one. That official was right there and looked like he watched the ball come right in toward Twill. He looked so confident, no hesitancy whatsoever to call it incomplete. What an asshat!

Packers have a knack of getting some pretty bad calls the last couple years.

[pbmax]

I think because it was not initially ruled a turnover, it cannot automatically be reviewed. If they called it an INT - then they would review it.


I watched the replay of the official eyeballing that play and when he came over and showed "Incomplete," I figured TWill bobbled another one. That official was right there and looked like he watched the ball come right in toward Twill. He looked so confident, no hesitancy whatsoever to call it incomplete. What an asshat!

Packers have a knack of getting some pretty bad calls the last couple years.

This is correct and points out the flaw of reviewing ALL scoring plays and turnovers. It misses half the equation.

[red]

it shows why the refs need to error on the side of caution

it needs to be ruled an int, then review it

if there is a fumble and the other team picks it up and is running it the other way, don't blow the play dead because you think he might have been down before he fumbled. if there's any doubt, let the play, play out. then review it

in this case there had to be some doubt from that fat asshole, or else he's completely blind, because he was right there and it was clearly an int

[Cleft Crusty]

The college game has instant replay figured out. The only requirement is to have some sort of Anti-Armstrong type shielding that repels bribes.

[woodbuck27]

it shows why the refs need to error on the side of caution

it needs to be ruled an int, then review it

if there is a fumble and the other team picks it up and is running it the other way, don't blow the play dead because you think he might have been down before he fumbled. if there's any doubt, let the play, play out. then review it

in this case there had to be some doubt from that fat asshole, or else he's completely blind, because he was right there and it was clearly an int

I think that Romo saw it as a pick and 'the official' was closer to that play then Romo.

A funny thing though....the angle is everything.

I saw one angle from the view that maybe MM had. Tramon Williams made 'that' pick ( an amazing pick, given the position of his hands on the ball... the upper most half of the pigskin). I believed I saw that in that case from or closer to the angle that MM had. It seemed to me that in that angle Tramon Williams lunged slightly forward towords the sideline after the ball was in his hands..... and I said to Mae... " he didn't drop that ball did he... Mae "?

I saw the pick clearly (being made) from one angle and shifting the angle by about 90 degrees 'ClockWise in the horizontal plane' ... changed the look completely to create some doubt of it being an interception. That angle played with what I already knew from the other.

You could be foled by the angle. I asked myself then:

What did MM see?

The angle reveals or doesn't. So any play like that has to be seen and reviewed from up top. That has to be done consistently.

It's simply too often too difficult too impossible to see from field level.

[hoosier]

it shows why the refs need to error on the side of caution

it needs to be ruled an int, then review it

if there is a fumble and the other team picks it up and is running it the other way, don't blow the play dead because you think he might have been down before he fumbled. if there's any doubt, let the play, play out. then review it

in this case there had to be some doubt from that fat asshole, or else he's completely blind, because he was right there and it was clearly an int

The problem with your approach is that a fair number of replays turn out to be inconclusive, and if the refs always ruled in favor of the defense whenever there was a doubt you would have way too many turnovers.

[channtheman]

The problem with your approach is that a fair number of replays turn out to be inconclusive, and if the refs always ruled in favor of the defense whenever there was a doubt you would have way too many turnovers.

Not so. The refs blew an INT in our game last night. I don't think on Williams first pick that there was a clear view that showed he had not intercepted the ball. Sure the ball hit the ground, but I had doubt that it moved or he didn't already have possession. That doubt is supposed to mean you leave it what it was called.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The college game has instant replay figured out.

Yes. No team should be penalized for bad calls, all this drama about throwing challenge flags is ridiculous. Let the eye-in-the-sky fix things as the game goes along. It works.

[hoosier]

Not so. The refs blew an INT in our game last night. I don't think on Williams first pick that there was a clear view that showed he had not intercepted the ball. Sure the ball hit the ground, but I had doubt that it moved or he didn't already have possession. That doubt is supposed to mean you leave it what it was called.

From Coleman's perspective Tramon hadn't secured the ball yet when it hit the ground. It seemed to me that the ball clearly moved when it hit the ground, though I'm not so sure about the control question. If he did have and maintain control then Coleman made the wrong call in reversing it, but that doesn't change the point I was making: that you can't instruct officials to rule turnover (or not turnover) 100% of the time when there is any doubt, with the expectation that replay will correct the calls that you invariably miss.

[woodbuck27]

Yes. No team should be penalized for bad calls, all this drama about throwing challenge flags is ridiculous. Let the eye-in-the-sky fix things as the game goes along. It works.

There...

YES.

[Tony Oday]

Can anyone find video on this? I want to watch how the hell that wasnt called an interception on the field.

[TravisWilliams23]

Just tweek the rule to state "all turnovers or POTENTIAL turnovers" will be reviewed by the booth in the final 2 minutes. Even if a team gets a play off before they decide to review, it should be allowed to be looked at and corrected after such review.

[TravisWilliams23]

Can anyone find video on this? I want to watch how the hell that wasnt called an interception on the field.
The referee clearly was mistaken. He should have been interviewed after the game by FOX and let the whole nation see what a fucking moron he was on that call. If players and coaches can be fined for misconduct then these ref's sure as hell should be fined for missing OBVIOUS calls.

[TravisWilliams23]

Can anyone find video on this? I want to watch how the hell that wasnt called an interception on the field.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000298755/Tony-Romo-throws-game-ending-interception

There might be a commercial at the beginning of the clip. If so, just keep watching.

[Packman_26]

I think because it was not initially ruled a turnover, it cannot automatically be reviewed. If they called it an INT - then they would review it.


I watched the replay of the official eyeballing that play and when he came over and showed "Incomplete," I figured TWill bobbled another one. That official was right there and looked like he watched the ball come right in toward Twill. He looked so confident, no hesitancy whatsoever to call it incomplete. What an asshat!

Packers have a knack of getting some pretty bad calls the last couple years.


This is correct and points out the flaw of reviewing ALL scoring plays and turnovers. It misses half the equation.

I think the terminology that we hear is misleading. To my knowledge plays that are scoring plays or turnovers are just selected to be review by the booth rather than a coaches challenge. We often hear that they are "automatically reviewed" but that is not the case. It's nothing more than the same rule as inside 2 minutes but adding additional circumstances. It was inside 2 mins so it didn't matter at all which way it was ruled, the replay comes directly from the booth.
None the less, it was atrocious that it took a timeout from McCarthy to get the play reviewed. How the NFL justifies this terrible system is beyond me. The solution is simple. All plays are reviewed by the booth and coaches are given challenges to use if they believe that the play should be challenged and is not by the booth. It makes zero sense that a play outside of 2 minutes can't be reviewed if you've already used your time outs and its equally ludicrous that McCarthy couldn't simply challenge without penalty when it was apparent that the booth wasn't going to do so.
And don't even get me started on how there is absolutely nothing that can be done on when on 3rd and 5 and an offensive lineman moves and causes the defense to jump offside and what should be a 3rd and 10 becomes 1st and 10 because some clown misses it.

[Cleft Crusty]

The referee clearly was mistaken. He should have been interviewed after the game by FOX and let the whole nation see what a fucking moron he was on that call. If players and coaches can be fined for misconduct then these ref's sure as hell should be fined for missing OBVIOUS calls.

Or maybe just appear on the Referee Pittman show.
http://snl.jt.org/caps/episode_sketches/1989-12-02-10.jpg

Caller: "Do you have dog or cat excrement in your braincase?"
Ref Pittman: "I'm not a physician, but I'm pretty sure there's a brain in there, no excrement"

[MadScientist]

Just tweek the rule to state "all turnovers or POTENTIAL turnovers" will be reviewed by the booth in the final 2 minutes. Even if a team gets a play off before they decide to review, it should be allowed to be looked at and corrected after such review.
Turnovers are automatically reviewed and the next play can't start until the call is confirmed or the ref goes under the hood. Potential TO's are checked, but if the next play starts before the booth calls for a review, then that's it. The real issues is why it took to the last second, or perhaps a little longer, to get that buzz from the booth. They should have decided quickly that this play needed looking at.

Yes the ref missed the call on the field, but from his angle it could well have looked like the ball touched the ground. He gets paid to make that call correctly, but perception in this case is tricky, especially if the ball moved when it was caught in a way that looked a lot like a ball hitting the ground.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000298755/Tony-Romo-throws-game-ending-interception

There might be a commercial at the beginning of the clip. If so, just keep watching.

That about covers it and I believe I see it here better than I might have on my recording.

The Official standing ever so close ( what? ... six feet away) and waving the Romo pass as an incompletion...how does he make that call ? That's simply too outrageous or hard for me to imagine if I hadn't seen it.

Something has to be done about NFL Officiating. It's been one of my worst observations this season for some reason.

[Guiness]

Turnovers are automatically reviewed and the next play can't start until the call is confirmed or the ref goes under the hood. Potential TO's are checked, but if the next play starts before the booth calls for a review, then that's it. The real issues is why it took to the last second, or perhaps a little longer, to get that buzz from the booth. They should have decided quickly that this play needed looking at.

Yes the ref missed the call on the field, but from his angle it could well have looked like the ball touched the ground. He gets paid to make that call correctly, but perception in this case is tricky, especially if the ball moved when it was caught in a way that looked a lot like a ball hitting the ground.

Unless you are the Browns...see my earlier post. They are truly the house of sadness!

[MadScientist]

That about covers it and I believe I see it here better than I might have on my recording.

The Official standing ever so close ( what? ... six feet away) and waving the Romo pass as an incompletion...how does he make that call ? That's simply too outrageous or hard for me to imagine if I hadn't seen it.

Something has to be done about NFL Officiating. It's been one of my worst observations this season for some reason.

From the angle the ref was to the catch, it was extremely difficult to tell if the ball hit the ground. Depth perception isn't precise enough to determine 2-3" at 10' straight on. I'm guessing he really saw something that looked like the ball hitting the ground when it was really T-Will catching it. However, given the game situation and the automatic checking by the booth on all TO's, the safest thing to do would be to call it a pick and let the replay sort it out.

[Jimx29]

this just adds on to (without a doubt) one of the worst years of refereeing the NFL has ever seen. It's horseshit calls and miscalls from one end to the other, and from what i'm seeing it's not necessarily targeting or helping any specific team (although i don't follow other games like the Packers games)......they are just horrible this year.

[red]

this just adds on to (without a doubt) one of the worst years of refereeing the NFL has ever seen. It's horseshit calls and miscalls from one end to the other, and from what i'm seeing it's not necessarily targeting or helping any specific team (although i don't follow other games like the Packers games)......they are just horrible this year.

refs need to figure out what leading with the head is. all the fines that come out every week for players leading with the head, and most of those hits aren't flagged

if a ref misses something or screws something up, then there needs to be repercussions. fine the refs or suspend them until they figure things out

hell, how does jeff triplette even have a job after the last two weeks he had? last week he had one of the worst calls in nfl history, right up there with the fail mary

i agree the refs have been horrid this season, but nothing is gonna fix it until the refs start getting disciplined for fucking things up

[digitaldean]

That game was wretchedly called most of the day. In fairness, they could have called PI on us a few times that they let slide. But Coleman, in my book, is on the same level as Triplette and Jerome Boger....flat out horrible. Missing Free's false start on Dallas' last TD drive gave them a 1st down on 3rd and 5. Daniels was held pretty much the whole game and never got called. TWill's 1st INT that was overturned was a screw job too.

The topper is when a ref is right within a few feet of the play, with no obstruction, and STILL botches it. Glad MM took initiative to call a TO. His quote after game was that he didn't want to lose the game on a technicality. This may not fix all the ills, but was reading that they are considering taking the replays out of the stadiums and having it in NYC. Sort of like what the NHL does with the replay center in Toronto.