Official 49er Playoff Week Discussion Thread

[pbmax]

First order of business, what adjective is best to describe the person who regularly makes this face in public?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18iyylfrauwngjpg/k-bigpic.jpg

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 3m
For Chicago game, they had a walk-through on Tuesday, Wednesday (Christmas) off, then Thursday and Friday practices.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 3m
#Packers only practicing (officially) on Thursday and Friday, as @RobDemovsky notices. Must be having Wednesday walk-through.

[hoosier]

First order of business, what adjective is best to describe the person who regularly makes this face in public?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18iyylfrauwngjpg/k-bigpic.jpg

I don't know about adjectives but I have a noun: spazz.

[woodbuck27]

First order of business, what adjective is best to describe the person who regularly makes this face in public?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18iyylfrauwngjpg/k-bigpic.jpg

In a word Spastic comes quickly to my mind.

[woodbuck27]

I don't know about adjectives but I have a noun: spazz.

By George ....move to the head of the class.

[Freak Out]

Short bus.

[Freak Out]

I want to see that fucker gouge his eyes out with that pen at some point in the game.

[CaptainKickass]

First order of business, what adjective is best to describe the person who regularly makes this face in public?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18iyylfrauwngjpg/k-bigpic.jpg


Uh,

I may be stating the obvious, but the term that immediately comes to mind is "WHINER!"

[woodbuck27]

Uh,

I may be stating the obvious, but the term that immediately comes to mind is "WHINER!"

That's pertinent to that guy.

I so very much look forward to seeing pain, exasperation and disbelief in that man's face and demeanour come this Sunday.

Ohh Ohh Boy do I ever ! I certainly believe that I will.

GO PACKERS ! .... GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

I need a description that embodies the sense of childishness, entitlement and arrogance that I sense emanates from his every pore.


adolescent, babyish, immature, infantile, jejune, juvenile, kiddish, puerile

Puerile maybe, infantile would do and I am willing to consider jejune if someone can convey the connotations that word carries.

[Bossman641]

Is anyone else having nightmares of facing the read option after seeing the OLB's consistently get sucked inside on Sunday?

[mraynrand]

I first remember the Hairball face from when the Gophers beat Michigan IN Michigan in 1986, to win the Little Brown Jug. I had that open-mouthed, stunned picture of Hairball from SI over my desk for 6 years.

Hairball, right after the re-animation with the lightening strike:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__Psd1Q_DoZQ/RwhMgw2M3bI/AAAAAAAAA_s/hsPEuORS39c/s320/jim.jpg

[mraynrand]

Is anyone else having nightmares of facing the read option after seeing the OLB's consistently get sucked inside on Sunday?

Absolutely. Oversized hat, pin-head, pencil-legs must be licking his chops.

[denverYooper]

Is anyone else having nightmares of facing the read option after seeing the OLB's consistently get sucked inside on Sunday?

I do wonder if they're going to open up more of their RO game on Sunday. That was a scarring experience. On the bright side, defense can't be much worse than last year, right? And our O might be better.

They just need Shields to get a pick 6 again, and they don't have Ross to muff the game back to the 9ers, so the script would be different.

[woodbuck27]

Is anyone else having nightmares of facing the read option after seeing the OLB's consistently get sucked inside on Sunday?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQGgQV2aNTqsvO-2WTbv0PiNhjG-xOKgWP4OfJNuDGe01mJUTV

[hoosier]

I need a description that embodies the sense of childishness, entitlement and arrogance that I sense emanates from his every pore.


Quote Originally Posted by From Merriam-Webster Synonyms
adolescent, babyish, immature, infantile, jejune, juvenile, kiddish, puerile

Puerile maybe, infantile would do and I am willing to consider jejune if someone can convey the connotations that word carries.

How about petulant. First syllable has a range of alliterative possibilities. There is poetic promise here.

[Patler]

Querulous.

[sheepshead]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-49ers-could-meet-in-playoffs-vd6mdd6-168539956.htmlJust scored a couple of ducats for Sunday. Hope it's not a blow out.

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-49ers-could-meet-in-playoffs-vd6mdd6-168539956.htmlJust scored a couple of ducats for Sunday. Hope it's not a blow out.



I think this is Dom's fourth chance at the Niners in past couple years. We studied their offense all off season in order to make sure they didn't light us up on the run.

The net results were Kapernick having over 400 passing yards, in part because we sold out on the run.

We're just not strong enough up front. I think we're going to get kicked around.

Terrible weather can be an equalizer. I think we need to cheer for terrible weather and the game somehow staying close.

[Bretsky]

and regardless of the outcome....I CAN"T FORGET how CRAPPY our special teams played against the Bears.

FIRE SLOCUM

We have some coaching staffs unemployed out there now...six of them...I'd probably take the sixth best ST coach over Slocum

Let's move fast and cherry pick the best one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[woodbuck27]

I need a description that embodies the sense of childishness, entitlement and arrogance that I sense emanates from his every pore.



Puerile maybe, infantile would do and I am willing to consider jejune if someone can convey the connotations that word carries.

jejune is likely fr. French and means dull or insipid ... or without substance.

For an example of a usage:

I wasted 2 hours trying to read this novel (book) until I categorized it as Jejune.

I don't feel that applies as a proper and accurate description of Jim Harbaugh.

Examing Jim closer:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7juE4Li4_ll8x1DYynQ4sbRMhJvXKq LoENPtZIRXJe-epMQz7

** Here's Jim about set to yell out the classy, always effective word .... 'Fart'.

Bad 'very bad Language' Jim.

** Spastic Jim ... low self esteem Jim:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnKSsGtLkRQsw4lc0OdTxALsx2g4PVK NnenqIJTdmZQVWO38Z-

A loooong drawwwn out ........... Whhhaaaaat !

Jim: Get it out with distinct emphasis... WHAT !!!

** Here's Jim in a debate:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD5SL4RWOF6sEBkZmFaUeeVDQidH79b MrC5Ztt-_eWXKDhKfhx

Unfriendly fella: Frick YOU Jim !...Jim is quick to counter with: Well frick you TOO Unfriendly fella !

Yup Jim being ....Nasty Jim. Never popular.

One of my personal favourites:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBhZtwxwc3kUwe0M25GB4yduJcs-Wt_xY2Jq_bULQKgI9E3HeRMQ

Jim realizing that that morning while showering that he forgot to use 'head and shoulders'.

Unkempt Jim.

There are so many shades of Jim Harbaugh.

I just want to see one side on Sunday:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQ5AagboVnMm6oCLsuHb8lnRsmQaI0Z _9Fe96dp2-tqjrBszjN

Beaten Up Jim.

[mraynrand]

Querulous.


I thought that was for Rodgers - as in "less queer"

Game PC kids of college professors play: Smear the Querulous

[channtheman]

First order of business, what adjective is best to describe the person who regularly makes this face in public?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18iyylfrauwngjpg/k-bigpic.jpg

Is "chunt" a word?

[mraynrand]

I don't know about adjectives but I have a noun: spazz.

histrionic

[pbmax]

I want to say colicky.

[woodbuck27]

I want to say colicky.


hahahahah ...that's hilarious.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/colicky

That word won't work. His age defines that much.

[MJZiggy]

I need a description that embodies the sense of childishness, entitlement and arrogance that I sense emanates from his every pore.



Puerile maybe, infantile would do and I am willing to consider jejune if someone can convey the connotations that word carries.

I usually just go with 'dickhead.'

[red]

the forcast is changing

the temp was suppose to be in the mid to upper 20's on sunday

it now looks like the warm up that is suppose to happen this weekend will only last one day (Saturday), then drop back down for sunday

on sunday they are now calling for a high of 9 with winds out of the northwest at around 10 mph

the game kicks off at 3:30ish local time with the sun going down at around 4:30

lows sunday night are expected to dip to 15-20 degrees below zero with winds picking up

the high on monday is suppose to be 10 below with 20 mph winds. if the system moves a little faster, we could be in line for a game of epic proportions

its gonna be cold :cow:

[pbmax]

the forcast is changing

the temp was suppose to be in the mid to upper 20's on sunday

it now looks like the warm up that is suppose to happen this weekend will only last one day (Saturday), then drop back down for sunday

on sunday they are now calling for a high of 9 with winds out of the northwest at around 10 mph

the game kicks off at #:30ish local time with the sun going down at around 4:30

lows sunday night are expected to dip to 15-20 degrees below zero with winds picking up

the high on monday is suppose to be 10 below with 20 mph winds. if the system moves a little faster, we could be in line for a game of epic proportions

its gonna be cold :cow:

Not good. 20s with wind chill would have been fine. This old body is not as good with single digits as it used to be.

[denverYooper]

the forcast is changing

the temp was suppose to be in the mid to upper 20's on sunday

it now looks like the warm up that is suppose to happen this weekend will only last one day (Saturday), then drop back down for sunday

on sunday they are now calling for a high of 9 with winds out of the northwest at around 10 mph

the game kicks off at #:30ish local time with the sun going down at around 4:30

lows sunday night are expected to dip to 15-20 degrees below zero with winds picking up

the high on monday is suppose to be 10 below with 20 mph winds. if the system moves a little faster, we could be in line for a game of epic proportions

its gonna be cold :cow:

Good. The Packers need every bit of help they can get. The Packers have played 3 of their last 4 in colder weather and they should be acclimated. I realize the 49ers style theoretically translates to cold weather games, but this year the Packers seem built for it and they should be more used to it. Unlike past years, I think we want this game played on frozen tundra.

[Bretsky]

The weather needs to be TERRIBLE to give GB a better shot to win

[denverYooper]

Status of Carlos Rodgers is uncertain, the 49ers might start Eazy E over the slot: Veteran Wright ready to step in wherever he's needed (http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/veteran-wright-ready-step-wherever-hes-needed)
Wright could play almost the entire game at the nickel position with Carlos Rogers questionable and the Packers' affinity for three-receiver formations. Wright would be matched often against Green Bay slot receiver Randall Cobb.

[pbmax]

Easy E is Edgar Winter, right?

[red]

weather underground is saying that the temp at kickoff will be 3 above zero

[pbmax]

You know, we still need a name for the Boykin fumble recovery and TD.

StripSackFumbleDown?

JuliusPepperAndTenIneffectives?

[pbmax]

weather underground is saying that the temp at kickoff will be 3 above zero

I love that site (use their app on my phone) but their forecasts are occasionally goofy. Weather.com is consistently wrong by a few degrees. What do the TV stations say?

Holy crap. WBAY says Hi 10 F, Lo -16 F, Blustery and cold. Flurries possible.

[gbgary]

I love that site (use their app on my phone) but their forecasts are occasionally goofy. Weather.com is consistently wrong by a few degrees. What do the TV stations say?

Holy crap. WBAY says Hi 10 F, Lo -16 F, Blustery and cold. Flurries possible.
still several days out to be accurate. hopefully it's wrong. either way this game is icing on the cake. the season was made last weekend.

[bobblehead]

You know, we still need a name for the Boykin fumble recovery and TD.

StripSackFumbleDown?

JuliusPepperAndTenIneffectives?

If a packer fumbles in the open woods would a bear jump on it

[wist43]

I think this is Dom's fourth chance at the Niners in past couple years. We studied their offense all off season in order to make sure they didn't light us up on the run.

The net results were Kapernick having over 400 passing yards, in part because we sold out on the run.

We're just not strong enough up front. I think we're going to get kicked around.

Terrible weather can be an equalizer. I think we need to cheer for terrible weather and the game somehow staying close.

Which is why I wanted Brandon Williams in the draft. Baltimore took him, but he's been banged up all year, didn't play much. Still think he's a hell of a player though.

Capers thinks he can stop the run with 2 DL on the field, and apparently he's convinced TT and MM that is the way to go. We play more 2-4 than any team in the league, and get consistently pushed around at the LOS as a result. I don't care how you argue it, Brad Jones simply isn't going to be able to stuff an OG the way a player of Brandon Williams size could.

It could be argued that it is a wash if we were stellar on the back end, and had one of the best pass defenses in the league, but we don't do that well either. We don't generate consistent pressure, and we have far too many breakdowns on the second level and in the secondary.

That all has to come to rest at Capers doorstep - yet he never seems to be held accountable, and he certainly doesn't make changes. It's frustrating and mindnumbing to watch.

Hopefully the 4th time is the charm, and we can hold them to 24 pts or less, and less than 400 yds of offense, but I doubt it. Capers has a track record of doing the same thing over and over again - and poor results don't seem to bother him.

I guess he figures he's got all of January-August to look at film and convince himself he was right all along.

[mraynrand]

I usually just go with 'duckhead.'

http://www.teeshirtsoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/diane_franklin_04.jpg

Kick his ass!

[mraynrand]

Capers thinks he can stop the run with 2 DL on the field,

So if Perry and Neal are not LBs, when they are on the field with "2 linemen" are they linemen or misplaced LBs?? Why mention Brad Jones as part of the 2-4, when the OLBs/DL-turned-LBs are really the issue (not that I'm saying Jones is any good, but he's an ILB, which is irrelevant to the 2-4 lineman debate)

[wist43]

So if Perry and Neal are not LBs, when they are on the field with "2 linemen" are they linemen or misplaced LBs?? Why mention Brad Jones as part of the 2-4, when the OLBs/DL-turned-LBs are really the issue (not that I'm saying Jones is any good, but he's an ILB, which is irrelevant to the 2-4 lineman debate)

In that alignment, they are misplaced LB's. 2nd and 6?? They are misplaced LB's. 1st and goal from the 1?? Misplaced LB's.

The issue is not being able to negate or control the interior line. We have one 2-gap DL on the roster, although some argue that CJ Wilson is a decent 2-gapper. He can 2-gap from the DE position, but not inside.

And then in pass rushing situations you could go with a 3 man line of D. Jones, Raji, and Daniels - combined with Neal and Perry rushing from the outside. If Matthews is healthy, bring Matthews from ROLB, allow Neal to roam, and bring Perry from LOLB. Jones and Daniels are both nimble enough to zone blitz, you could mix and match a good number of rush/blitz combinations with that personnel grouping.

With the way Capers approaches it, he has 2 DL inside, and Neal and Perry on the outside - it's more often than not a 4 man rush, and in run/pass sitiations, Neal and Perry are standing up and not in position to anchor at all. The downside is literally endless.

And so it goes, our defense is pathetic - pretty much everyone agrees on that. You seem to be okay with it though - as is Dom, MM, and TT apparently.

[pbmax]

There is no way the Packers could support the 3 LB alignment you describe against the pass. The middle of the field would be wide open. The safeties would not hold up. That 3rd DL would have to provide super human improvement to the pass rush and that guy isn't on the roster this year.

The problem is that the Packers are not good enough in base to defend the 3rd receiver OR a RB out of the backfield with a LB. In nickel or dime they are not good enough to shut down a running game, pass rush and defend deep with the same personnel. So the O can simply choose what they wish to attack based on Packer personnel if they feel its advantageous.

You may very well see a 3rd DL in some passing downs (esp against the 49ers) but you will see too many completed passes.

Its not the alignment or sub package. Its these players, in this scheme.

Now could a different scheme match them better? I am willing to entertain that thought about the OLBs/DL and maybe the ILBs. But not the backend, especially not the safeties.

Could someone else go mad scientist and cover up the flaws? Short term yes, but eventually the film would reveal the scam.

They need health, better personnel (Jones will help as a second year player) and Capers might have to break up the scheme if through attrition the players no longer fit. The playoffs may be interesting this year, their play has picked up lately but not enough yet.

[MJZiggy]

If a packer fumbles in the open woods would a bear jump on itApparently not...

[deake]

still several days out to be accurate. hopefully it's wrong. either way this game is icing on the cake. the season was made last weekend.

+1

[wist43]

There is no way the Packers could support the 3 LB alignment you describe against the pass. The middle of the field would be wide open. The safeties would not hold up. That 3rd DL would have to provide super human improvement to the pass rush and that guy isn't on the roster this year.

The problem is that the Packers are not good enough in base to defend the 3rd receiver OR a RB out of the backfield with a LB. In nickel or dime they are not good enough to shut down a running game, pass rush and defend deep with the same personnel. So the O can simply choose what they wish to attack based on Packer personnel if they feel its advantageous.

You may very well see a 3rd DL in some passing downs (esp against the 49ers) but you will see too many completed passes.

Its not the alignment or sub package. Its these players, in this scheme.

Now could a different scheme match them better? I am willing to entertain that thought about the OLBs/DL and maybe the ILBs. But not the backend, especially not the safeties.

Could someone else go mad scientist and cover up the flaws? Short term yes, but eventually the film would reveal the scam.

They need health, better personnel (Jones will help as a second year player) and Capers might have to break up the scheme if through attrition the players no longer fit. The playoffs may be interesting this year, their play has picked up lately but not enough yet.

That is certainly a plausible personnel grouping.

To be sure you couldn't run that against some teams, and some personnel groupings, but we're talking about subpackages and matchups.

Matthews can certainly drop - hell, Raji picked off a pass in the NFC championship game and ran it in for a TD. It's as much about showing different looks, versatility, and sending a variety of rushers from different gaps and angles.

Depending on down and distance, and the personnel group the offense has on the field - a front 6 of D. Jones, Raji, Daniels as DL; and Matthews, Neal, and Perry as LB's is certainly plausible. Nothing wrong with that personnel grouping at all on 2nd and 6. You'd still be playing a nickel, and you'd have a lot more beef on the field to deal with the run.

I'd much rather see that alignment than having Brad Jones tasked with taking on a G should, heaven forbid, the offense actually run the ball.

Beyond the x's and o's of just one snap, the overall philosphy of trying to find more ways to get a steady diet of 3 DL on the field most of the time allows you to keep Raji and Daniels fresher, and more impactful in pass rush situations later in the game. As it is, Raji is completely miscast and wasted as a 2-gap DL.

In short, I'd try to find ways to maximize the talents of the players I had, instead of pigeon holing everyone into that mindnumbing 2-4 Capers loves to run.

If Capers is in fact fired, it will be primarily b/c of his overuse of the 2-4, and the misuse of front seven personnel in general.

[mraynrand]

Depending on down and distance, and the personnel group the offense has on the field - a front 6 of D. Jones, Raji, Daniels as DL; and Matthews, Neal, and Perry as LB's is certainly plausible. Nothing wrong with that personnel grouping at all on 2nd and 6. You'd still be playing a nickel, and you'd have a lot more beef on the field to deal with the run.

Wha? I just said that and you said it's mismatched


It's as much about showing different looks, versatility, and sending a variety of rushers from different gaps and angles.

You pick your poison. Chicago has 4-5 weapons. you don't get there with pressure and even Cutler will pick you apart. With their improved line, you have to acknowledge that you might not get there. Thus Capers plays off coverage, tries to limit the damage and hopes someone can make a play - either a d-back with a great break on the ball, or pressure from a lineman, or Hawk closing fast and solid on the check down.

[mraynrand]

If Capers is in fact fired, it will be primarily b/c of his overuse of the 2-4, and the misuse of front seven personnel in general.

I think the organization is going to give him a break knowing that his front seven consisted too often of guys like Mulumba, Palmer, Lattimore, injured Perry and injured Neal

[mraynrand]

There is no way the Packers could support the 3 LB alignment you describe against the pass. The middle of the field would be wide open. The safeties would not hold up. That 3rd DL would have to provide super human improvement to the pass rush and that guy isn't on the roster this year.
.

I think you could do a 2-4 on a passing down, or even increase to 3 DL if two of your LBs were Matthews and Francois and they were in pass coverage. But then you'd like healthy Perry or Neal to provide pass rush from that other OLB spot.

[wist43]

Wha? I just said that and you said it's mismatched

You were referring to 2 DL, and Perry and Neal outside as LB's. I was referring to a 3 man line, i.e. D. Jones, Raji, and Daniels, with Perry, Neal, and Matthews.

If Matthews is out, then throw in Mulumba. If you want to go to a true 3-4, bring in Brad Jones to spy the middle of the field.

Just about anything is better than what Capers is doing.

[denverYooper]

So if Perry and Neal are not LBs, when they are on the field with "2 linemen" are they linemen or misplaced LBs?? Why mention Brad Jones as part of the 2-4, when the OLBs/DL-turned-LBs are really the issue (not that I'm saying Jones is any good, but he's an ILB, which is irrelevant to the 2-4 lineman debate)

We'll see the 49ers run a similar 2-4 with Brooks, Smith, McDonald, and Smith. They make it look much better because the Smiths are so good. They can play run or pass pretty effectively out of that look.

[Infamous]

Absolutely. Oversized hat, pin-head, pencil-legs must be licking his chops.

F'n hilarious

[pbmax]

If Matthews, Perry and Neal are you LBs and you drop two into coverage, I am simply going to run my RB or slot guy across your zone and be open every single time. If you bring a safety down to run some kinda Cover 1 or 3 with 3 across underneath, I run both receivers through your zones and throw to the one that doesn't draw the safety.

If your goal is to force a pass, you will succeed. If your goal is to prevent big yardage, I don't see how that coverage succeeds. You at least need Hawk out there. Playing in the middle is not the same as forcing slot receivers wide or fanning out to play the flat for an OLB.

Your 3-3 has the same problem that the current 2-4 and 3-4 have. It can't do everything well. And the Packers don't have the players to mix it up from the same personnel package.

I think Jones and Boyd get you closer to having a D line than can morph, but its not there yet.

The single biggest failure, aside from big plays in the passing game, is the 3-4 run defense. They haven't forced many 2nd and longs this year.

[Infamous]

+1


still several days out to be accurate. hopefully it's wrong. either way this game is icing on the cake. the season was made last weekend.

so just "happy to be here?"
sounds sorta ncaa march madness sweet sixteen-like..

[denverYooper]

Bobble will be happy about this: the Packers are going to practice outside tomorrow and Friday (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/238381301.html).
After staying inside in 2007 and then taking a beating from the New York Giants in frigid temperatures at Lambeau Field in the NFC Championship game, coach Mike McCarthy has changed his tune and started practicing outdoors with a cold game approaching.

Most of the players aren't thrilled about practicing outdoors and don't go out dressed in sleeves and shorts to help prepare them for Sunday. They dress warm and practice the way they normally would. The advantage is that they know how the ball will feel in their hands and travel through the air. They get a sense for how the footing will be.

[wist43]

If Matthews, Perry and Neal are you LBs and you drop two into coverage, I am simply going to run my RB or slot guy across your zone and be open every single time. If you bring a safety down to run some kinda Cover 1 or 3 with 3 across underneath, I run both receivers through your zones and throw to the one that doesn't draw the safety.

If your goal is to force a pass, you will succeed. If your goal is to prevent big yardage, I don't see how that coverage succeeds. You at least need Hawk out there. Playing in the middle is not the same as forcing slot receivers wide or fanning out to play the flat for an OLB.

Your 3-3 has the same problem that the current 2-4 and 3-4 have. It can't do everything well. And the Packers don't have the players to mix it up from the same personnel package.

I think Jones and Boyd get you closer to having a D line than can morph, but its not there yet.

The single biggest failure, aside from big plays in the passing game, is the 3-4 run defense. They haven't forced many 2nd and longs this year.

It's like playing pass on 1st and 10 in your base 3-4, except that instead of having 2 ILB's on the field, you have another safety or DB. As I said, you're still playing nickel there.

And you don't have to have Perry and Neal, with Matthews, you could have a cover LB like Brad Jones. It's not static, it's never static. It's all sub-packages.

At least with more beef on the field you're better equipped to deal with the run at the LOS, and you're better positioned to offer up a varied pass rush. If you're going to go to playing a nickel as your base - which is essentially what Capers is doing by playing a 2-4 most of the time, I'd much rather have more size out there in the front 6.

As for the Niners, Capers did play a lot more 3-4 in the 1st game this year, but was of course clueless about how to stop Kapernick and the passing game. I would commit the front six/seven to the run and pass rush, and focus on Boldin and Davis in coverage. They're going to make a few plays here and there, but if we can hold them to around 100 yds rushing, and 250 passing, we might have a shot.

I would feel a lot better about matching up with the Niners in my proposed 3-3 nickel on 2nd and 6 as opposed to Capers standard 2-4 which has Hawk and Jones trying to take on and disengage from offensive linemen, at least the bigger bodies in front of them would offer some protection.

To that I would add a healthy rotation of Pickett, CJ Wilson, and Worthy on would-be run downs to keep Raji, Daniels, and Jones fresh for pass rushing duties - of course Capers doesn't think any down is a run down, so that's wishful thinking.

[KYPack]

The issue is not being able to negate or control the interior line. We have one 2-gap DL on the roster, although some argue that CJ Wilson is a decent 2-gapper. He can 2-gap from the DE position, but not inside.



Good to see you are back at it, Wist.

CJ Wilson can 2 gap?

I know this got started somewhere else, but NO, he can't.

Shit, he's happy when he is active for a game, let alone two gap from a 5 tech?

That was somebodies fantasy in an old thread or something.

Those 20 fronts drive me nuts, but Capers is trying to get some coverage help, deep in the hole and all the underneath routes. A 30 front gives him one less hand in coverage so he's trying to scheme things to get him some help back there. The 20 front in short yardage have mainly been a disguise, he still had 8 in the box.

[woodbuck27]

Not good. 20s with wind chill would have been fine. This old body is not as good with single digits as it used to be.

Suggestion:

Pack a decent sleeping bag for you and your honey.

GO PACK GO !

[Joemailman]

Packers shut down 49ers running game the first time, but got torched by Kaepernick.

The bad news: Matthews and Jolly won't be out there.

The good news: Burnett and Richardson at Safety are better than Jennings and McMillian. Tramon is playing a lot better now than he was then.

Not sure if the good news outweighs the bad news.

[woodbuck27]

Wha? I just said that and you said it's mismatched



You pick your poison. Chicago has 4-5 weapons. you don't get there with pressure and even Cutler will pick you apart. With their improved line, you have to acknowledge that you might not get there. Thus Capers plays off coverage, tries to limit the damage and hopes someone can make a play - either a d-back with a great break on the ball, or pressure from a lineman, or Hawk closing fast and solid on the check down.

Just a heads up:

The San Fran 49ers mraynrand the 2013 Bears are packing for trips to the Caribbean, Hawaii, Mexico...etc and trying to forget last Sunday's loss to the Packers.

The Green Bay Packers are playing the 49ers in Lambeau field this week...Sun. Jan. 5, 2014 @ 3:40 CST.

[woodbuck27]

Good to see you are back at it, Wist.

CJ Wilson can 2 gap?

I know this got started somewhere else, but NO, he can't.

Shit, he's happy when he is active for a game, let alone two gap from a 5 tech?

That was somebodies fantasy in an old thread or something.

Those 20 fronts drive me nuts, but Capers is trying to get some coverage help, deep in the hole and all the underneath routes. A 30 front gives him one less hand in coverage so he's trying to scheme things to get him some help back there. The 20 front in short yardage have mainly been a disguise, he still had 8 in the box.

Is it bobblehead that is somewhat up with C.J. Wilson.

Damn I mean.. a bit of a

no..errr..on with C.J Wil

Ahh ..... forget it.

[bobblehead]

There is no way the Packers could support the 3 LB alignment you describe against the pass. The middle of the field would be wide open. The safeties would not hold up. That 3rd DL would have to provide super human improvement to the pass rush and that guy isn't on the roster this year.

The problem is that the Packers are not good enough in base to defend the 3rd receiver OR a RB out of the backfield with a LB. In nickel or dime they are not good enough to shut down a running game, pass rush and defend deep with the same personnel. So the O can simply choose what they wish to attack based on Packer personnel if they feel its advantageous.

You may very well see a 3rd DL in some passing downs (esp against the 49ers) but you will see too many completed passes.

Its not the alignment or sub package. Its these players, in this scheme.

Now could a different scheme match them better? I am willing to entertain that thought about the OLBs/DL and maybe the ILBs. But not the backend, especially not the safeties.

Could someone else go mad scientist and cover up the flaws? Short term yes, but eventually the film would reveal the scam.

They need health, better personnel (Jones will help as a second year player) and Capers might have to break up the scheme if through attrition the players no longer fit. The playoffs may be interesting this year, their play has picked up lately but not enough yet.

Here is the catch though. Earlier in the year we were running 3 man fronts on early downs and actually stopping the run thus creating more advantageous 3rd downs and then actually getting stops. Somewhere along the way we reverted back to 2-4 all the way and there was a correlation to less success. Maybe it wasn't the reason, but I think it was.

[bobblehead]

Bobble will be happy about this: the Packers are going to practice outside tomorrow and Friday (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/238381301.html).

Yep, you play like you practice. If you practice in the warm and play in the cold, it will be foreign. If you practice walking to position and casually addressing the ball carrier, you likely will be passive in the game.

[woodbuck27]

Here is the catch though. Earlier in the year we were running 3 man fronts on early downs and actually stopping the run thus creating more advantageous 3rd downs and then actually getting stops. Somewhere along the way we reverted back to 2-4 all the way and there was a correlation to less success. Maybe it wasn't the reason, but I think it was.

Could that have been primarily based on a lack of depth with regards to 'Big Men'?

[bobblehead]

Is it bobblehead that is somewhat up with C.J. Wilson.

Damn I mean.. a bit of a

no..errr..on with C.J Wil

Ahh ..... forget it.

I never said he could 2 gap. That is a unique skill set that KY says he does not have. I can't say for sure without studying film. What I do know is that he has more tackles per snap year in and year out. He always seems to be around the ball. He also is inactive a lot. He will also probably start and be effective for someone next year.

[woodbuck27]

I never said he could 2 gap. That is a unique skill set that KY says he does not have. I can't say for sure without studying film. What I do know is that he has more tackles per snap year in and year out. He always seems to be around the ball. He also is inactive a lot. He will also probably start and be effective for someone next year.

Thank You for that analysis.

Logged.

I beg your pardon for that post. I imagine that you get it. (shaking my head) :whaa:

[mraynrand]

Just a heads up:

The San Fran 49ers mraynrand the 2013 Bears are packing for trips to the Caribbean, Hawaii, Mexico...etc and trying to forget last Sunday's loss to the Packers.

The Green bay Packers are playing the 49ers in Lambeau field this week...Sun. Jan. 5, 2014 @ 3:40 CST.

Sometimes you're just an odd dude. We're analyzing the past game to make sense of what the Packer D is capable of defending, is that OK with you?

SF just doesn't have quite the same array of offensive weapons, but they're close. They probably will look a lot better than their 24th O ranking against the Packer defense. Kap runs better than Cutler too, If I recall correctly.

[mraynrand]

I never said he could 2 gap. That is a unique skill set that KY says he does not have. I can't say for sure without studying film. What I do know is that he has more tackles per snap year in and year out. He always seems to be around the ball. He also is inactive a lot. He will also probably start and be effective for someone next year.

I wondered a while back if he could 2 gap, in the context of the fact that he was being used more in the run game. KY was adamant he could not.

[gbgary]

so just "happy to be here?"
sounds sorta ncaa march madness sweet sixteen-like..

so after going 1-6-1 in Rodgers' absence, with det and chi collapsing during this same period, you don't think they feel a little lucky to be where they're at? I think it's a miracle.

[pbmax]

Here is the catch though. Earlier in the year we were running 3 man fronts on early downs and actually stopping the run thus creating more advantageous 3rd downs and then actually getting stops. Somewhere along the way we reverted back to 2-4 all the way and there was a correlation to less success. Maybe it wasn't the reason, but I think it was.

They still run 3-4 on the majority of 1st downs but it hasn't been as effective. i wrote this elsewhere but 2 gapping Raji has reduced his involvement and he doesn't shed unless he is quick off the ball. And Picket has been hurt and doubles are turning him.

I have no doubt though that teams run their 3WR-1TE-1RB package out there with the full intention of running out of it. Problem is, if Capers goes back to 3-4, that 3rd receiver or TE is killing the underneath coverage. The nickel and dime have slowed that recently since they shelved House and slot Tramontana and put Bush and Hyde inside with Tramontana sticking wide.

[woodbuck27]

Sometimes you're just an odd dude. We're analyzing the past game to make sense of what the Packer D is capable of defending, is that OK with you?

SF just doesn't have quite the same array of offensive weapons, but they're close. They probably will look a lot better than their 24th O ranking against the Packer defense. Kap runs better than Cutler too, If I recall correctly.

Do you enjoy beginning or ending posts with some smartass, insulting or backhanded comment? Does that seem appropriate to you? Someone treated you really badly growing up Eh. I feel sad for you....that you need to take that out on anyone here.

I stand for myself but I never mean to go out of my way to make enemies here. This is a Packer fan forum.I've been a Green Bay Packer fan of good standing likely longer than you. Your a Packer fan and it's nigh time that you and I clean up our act here.

Try a little common sense,decency and some better form of respect. We're older than some here and this isn't acceptable to me. It's too obvious that you get off in your ways and me but does that make sense? Your waqys will not ever knock me down mraynrand. So why not simply let go?

Now to the point:

I meant no offense and your post simply made me pause and try to determine if I entered a twilight Zone thing. Seriously your analysis of the Bears game and our defense threw me.

Otherwise:

Colin Kaepernick is definitely a bigger thread to run than Jay Cutler.

If he gets off again like he did last season in the playoffs. It won't go down well?

In reality how does out 'D' stop that? How does Dom Capers game plan to prevent Kaepernick scoring. Stop the 49ers rushing game which is their strength on 'O'?

GO PACK GO !

[KYPack]

I never said he could 2 gap. That is a unique skill set that KY says he does not have. I can't say for sure without studying film. What I do know is that he has more tackles per snap year in and year out. He always seems to be around the ball. He also is inactive a lot. He will also probably start and be effective for someone next year.

I didn't think you did say that. Somebody did in a thread mid-season. Wilson is an average player, lucky if he can secure the one gap he's assigned.

The Pack has two guys who can two gap. Pickett and jolly. Raji has been on the nose and is assigned to two gap, but that really ain't his style. when he's on, he can be an effective middle DLineman, but damn, he's been hit or miss this year.

I also like the 30 fronts we ran at the beginning of the season, but I think the loss of Jolly and other factors have caused Capers to try to use that 2-4 deal more.

I'd be more critical of the defense, but with the personnel we have presently, I really can't say what we should be doing.

I wonder what the many internet DC's would draw up if they were handed the chalk?

[pbmax]

Put the way KY just put it, I think you have to one gap everyone and attack. I am not sure that would be better overall but it would be something else to show them. If Adrian Peterson were still in the playoffs I would be too scared to try it.

Jolly is out, Wilson isn't the answer and Boyd is young. The best thing on the line are Raji, Jones and Neal when he is inside on the nickel. Stick two of the faster guys at end with Raji and Pickett rotating and hit gaps. Its could leave each ILB fighting a Guards but I am not sure what else to do. It seems insane that its going to get better unless they suddenly get healthy. I don't think they can run a 4-3, there isn't a MLB on the roster.

Talking through this, I am more convinced than ever that they really need a top notch ILB next to Hawk. Someone who will clean up all the trash left lying around while all the other guys wrestle.

[CaptainKickass]

First order of business, what adjective is best to describe the person who regularly makes this face in public?

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18iyylfrauwngjpg/k-bigpic.jpg

After further review, I've re-consulted with the Keepers of the Powers of Kickass by way of Mental-Telephony. Given the choice to use my powers for good or for awesome, they were informed that my decision is always awesome. Thus, they have bestowed upon me the rare ability to weigh in on this topic twice in the same exact thread.

With this new found power I submit an additional caption: Pedantic

pe·dan·tic
adjective \pi-ˈdan-tik\ : of, relating to, or being a pedant(see pedant)

ped·ant
noun \ˈpe-dənt\ : a person who annoys other people by correcting small errors and giving too much attention to minor details



Also - the Rodgers/Boykin/Fumble/Pass/Recovery/Touchdown vernacular I've been using is "The A.D.D.T.D."


:butt:

[woodbuck27]

Put the way KY just put it, I think you have to one gap everyone and attack. I am not sure that would be better overall but it would be something else to show them. If Adrian Peterson were still in the playoffs I would be too scared to try it.

Jolly is out, Wilson isn't the answer and Boyd is young. The best thing on the line are Raji, Jones and Neal when he is inside on the nickel. Stick two of the faster guys at end with Raji and Pickett rotating and hit gaps. Its could leave each ILB fighting a Guards but I am not sure what else to do. It seems insane that its going to get better unless they suddenly get healthy. I don't think they can run a 4-3, there isn't a MLB on the roster.

Talking through this, I am more convinced than ever that they really need a top notch ILB next to Hawk. Someone who will clean up all the trash left lying around while all the other guys wrestle.

NO. 59 out and replaced with a more consistent lunch bucket style performer.

GO PACKERS GO !

[pittstang5]

Has anyone seen the status of Josh Boyd? He wasn't on Wednesday's injury report. Didn't he leave the game Sunday? Did he come back?

[woodbuck27]

Has anyone seen the status of Josh Boyd? He wasn't on Wednesday's injury report. Didn't he leave the game Sunday? Did he come back?

Good Day pittstang5:

Packers Injury Report;

http://www.packers.com/team/injury-report.html

Nothing there pittstang5.


** http://www.packers.com/team/roster/Josh-Boyd/abc7d6fe-37b6-4601-8763-9475bb5a8942

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

[wist43]

Most of the comments in this thread come back to my 2-3 year long contention that we are drafting good players, but they are miscast for either a straight-up 3-4, and/or whatever it is that Capers is trying to do.

We can't really go to a straight-up 3-4 b/c we don't have enough 2-gap DL, especially with Jolly out now; and Capers using the 2-4 as more of base than a sub-package, which is what it should be, certainly isn't working. Which brings us back to my contention that we should be using more 3-3 nickel alignments.

Capers 2-4 is getting flat out run over, and generating little pressure - one thing is for sure, this is not the answer, yet it is his "run to safety" alignment.

By swapping out the 2-4 for a 3-3, you at least have 3 down linemen who are in-line and prepared to take on the run, as opposed to just having 2. You also have another 40-70 lbs of muscle/fat in the box to either stuff the run, or squeeze the pocket. You still have the 5th DB on the field to deal with the 3rd WR, and you still have the option of using one of the 3 LB slots as a cover a guy, ala Brad Jones. You can man Jones up on the RB, or drop Hawk and the safety into short zones; you can play man or cover 2 on the outside and in the back.

In short, you have just as much flexibility, depending on personnel as you do with a 2-4. The 2-4 is getting us dismal results. If you can't get home by rushing 4 out of that alignment, then you need to give it a different look using most of the same personnel. I'd use the personnel in waves to keep everyone fresh, and scheme formations to down and distance relative to the offensive personnel. You're still matching up to their personnel, but you are better able to dictate to them, as opposed to them dictating to you.

Capers is entirely reactionary, while occassionally throwing in an exotic blitz wrinkle. Then he goes right back to his 2-4 and gives up easy yards.

I do expect Capers to run more 3-4 against the Niners, but with Jolly out, Raji and Pickett worn down, everyone else miscast as 3-4 down linemen, and Capers penchant to jump to the 2-4 as soon as possible - I expect a repeat of game 1 from this year.

Maybe the weather will help us? and maybe Rodgers and the offense can do enough? Let's hope so - it's the playoffs, and we have a puncher's chance.

[woodbuck27]

Most of the comments in this thread come back to my 2-3 year long contention that we are drafting good players, but they are miscast for either a straight-up 3-4, and/or whatever it is that Capers is trying to do.

We can't really go to a straight-up 3-4 b/c we don't have enough 2-gap DL, especially with Jolly out now; and Capers using the 2-4 as more of base than a sub-package, which is what it should be, certainly isn't working. Which brings us back to my contention that we should be using more 3-3 nickel alignments.

Capers 2-4 is getting flat out run over, and generating little pressure - one thing is for sure, this is not the answer, yet it is his "run to safety" alignment.

By swapping out the 2-4 for a 3-3, you at least have 3 down linemen who are in-line and prepared to take on the run, as opposed to just having 2. You also have another 40-70 lbs of muscle/fat in the box to either stuff the run, or squeeze the pocket. You still have the 5th DB on the field to deal with the 3rd WR, and you still have the option of using one of the 3 LB slots as a cover a guy, ala Brad Jones. You can man Jones up on the RB, or drop Hawk and the safety into short zones; you can play man or cover 2 on the outside and in the back.

In short, you have just as much flexibility, depending on personnel as you do with a 2-4. The 2-4 is getting us dismal results. If you can't get home by rushing 4 out of that alignment, then you need to give it a different look using most of the same personnel. I'd use the personnel in waves to keep everyone fresh, and scheme formations to down and distance relative to the offensive personnel. You're still matching up to their personnel, but you are better able to dictate to them, as opposed to them dictating to you.

Capers is entirely reactionary, while occassionally throwing in an exotic blitz wrinkle. Then he goes right back to his 2-4 and gives up easy yards.

I do expect Capers to run more 3-4 against the Niners, but with Jolly out, Raji and Pickett worn down, everyone else miscast as 3-4 down linemen, and Capers penchant to jump to the 2-4 as soon as possible - I expect a repeat of game 1 from this year.

Maybe the weather will help us? and maybe Rodgers and the offense can do enough? Let's hope so - it's the playoffs, and we have a puncher's chance.

Why Dom Capers can't get that is such a mystery to me.

It's so damn frustrating.

Is it a supply of size and talent problem? Is it an issue and scheme and situation?

How difficult is that for these experts to unravel and fix?

It seems to me that the answer is:

Over the top too difficult and I'm simply amazed at that.

Damn !

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packershistory.net/files/PACKERS/2013PACKERS-DivisionChamps.jpg

NFL CHAMPIONSHIPS = 13.

DIVISION - CONFERENCE TITLES = 25

PLAYOFF APPEARANCES = 29

PLAYOFF RECORD: 30-18

NEXT UP and then DOWN >>> The San Francisco 49ers.

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

[Packers4Glory]

I've got a guard weekend this week so I'll probably miss at least the 1st half....which might be ok. I'm debating on recording it but it seems when I do (like the last SF game) we lose. Maybe I'll just rush home and hope to be pleasantly surprised....I really have no expectations for this game or for this playoff run. Too many injuries and a defense that is the worst in the playoffs by a mile.

[woodbuck27]

I've got a guard weekend this week so I'll probably miss at least the 1st half....which might be ok. I'm debating on recording it but it seems when I do (like the last SF game) we lose. Maybe I'll just rush home and hope to be pleasantly surprised....I really have no expectations for this game or for this playoff run. Too many injuries and a defense that is the worst in the playoffs by a mile.

Ohh but the Green Bay Packers need you 100% on with believing in a Green Bay Packer Victory over the San Fran 49ers !

BELIEVE THAT :rs:!

[Pugger]

Has anyone seen the status of Josh Boyd? He wasn't on Wednesday's injury report. Didn't he leave the game Sunday? Did he come back?

I'm pretty certain he returned in the Chicago game.

[mraynrand]

Do you enjoy beginning or ending posts with some smartass, insulting or backhanded comment? Does that seem appropriate to you? Someone treated you really badly growing up Eh. I feel sad for you....that you need to take that out on anyone here.

I stand for myself but I never mean to go out of my way to make enemies here. This is a Packer fan forum.I've been a Green Bay Packer fan of good standing likely longer than you.

Geez Dad, not another lecture. Can't you just ground me for a week and spare me the sermon?

[pbmax]

Most of the comments in this thread come back to my 2-3 year long contention that we are drafting good players, but they are miscast for either a straight-up 3-4, and/or whatever it is that Capers is trying to do.

We can't really go to a straight-up 3-4 b/c we don't have enough 2-gap DL, especially with Jolly out now; and Capers using the 2-4 as more of base than a sub-package, which is what it should be, certainly isn't working. Which brings us back to my contention that we should be using more 3-3 nickel alignments.

.

You do not need to 2 gap a 3-4. The Steelers play one gap 3-4 quite a bit and had moved to it under LeBeau while Perry was still there. There are other flavors in the league (like Wade Phillips) who 1 gap their 3-4 as well.

But I do think the players aspect is the interesting part and it really is the crux of the situation. A lot of teams have one or two guys well north of 300 on a D line and have good run D. But most have just one near the nose. Capers tends to go jumbo even in base 3-4 (also in 2-4 if its pass personnel and he expects run) to combat the run. Why is this necessary?

In the nickel its more obvious and probably correct if you think its a run. But in base, why does Capers need to be jumbo to effectively stop the run when very few other team have to do this?

Is he being stubborn or are the more prototypical ends (Jones, Neal, Wilson) just so bad he cannot have them out there? Jolly isn't in there for his pass rush, he is there to clog run lanes. So why do they need to be bigger than most teams on the line? In wist's wished for 3-3 nickel, you can't have Jolly out there because if it is a pass, he is getting you nothing.

Are the players actually good, do they not get good individual instruction or does the scheme simply not work to their strengths?

[denverYooper]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 4m
Per @BovadaLV, the #49ers are a 3-point favorite over the #Packers on Sunday. I had seen 2.5 earlier in the week.

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 6m
Also from @BovadaLV, the over-under on Kaepernick's rushing yards is 40.5. Seems a little low.

The public is moving on the 9ers so far. I wonder what the wise guys think?

[woodbuck27]

Geez Dad, not another lecture. Can't you just ground me for a week and spare me the sermon?

I'll correct myself mraynrand.

I'll simply be realistic and 'YOU' ... "You keep plowing your field".

I'll plow mine.

[mraynrand]

You do not need to 2 gap a 3-4. The Steelers play one gap 3-4 quite a bit and had moved to it under LeBeau while Perry was still there. There are other flavors in the league (like Wade Phillips) who 1 gap their 3-4 as well.

But I do think the players aspect is the interesting part and it really is the crux of the situation. A lot of teams have one or two guys well north of 300 on a D line and have good run D. But most have just one near the nose. Capers tends to go jumbo even in base 3-4 (also in 2-4 if its pass personnel and he expects run) to combat the run. Why is this necessary?

In the nickel its more obvious and probably correct if you think its a run. But in base, why does Capers need to be jumbo to effectively stop the run when very few other team have to do this?

Is he being stubborn or are the more prototypical ends (Jones, Neal, Wilson) just so bad he cannot have them out there? Jolly isn't in there for his pass rush, he is there to clog run lanes. So why do they need to be bigger than most teams on the line? In wist's wished for 3-3 nickel, you can't have Jolly out there because if it is a pass, he is getting you nothing.

Are the players actually good, do they not get good individual instruction or does the scheme simply not work to their strengths?

If other teams can one gap, and Capers thinks he needs jumbo 2-gappers, wouldn't the thinking be that he is terrified of letting guards get to the next level and obliterate the LBs. So if other teams 1-gap, they must like their LBs - and their ability to avoid/shed blocks and attack the ball carrier - a whole lot more than GB does their own. That's certainly true of SF, no?

[denverYooper]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 2m
RB Eddie Lacy (ankle) was a full go at practice. ILB Brad Jones (ankle) also practicing. #packers

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 5m
#Packers practice: Lacy practicing in full. B. Jones working also. Only player missing was LB Victor Aiyewa.

[wist43]

You do not need to 2 gap a 3-4. The Steelers play one gap 3-4 quite a bit and had moved to it under LeBeau while Perry was still there. There are other flavors in the league (like Wade Phillips) who 1 gap their 3-4 as well.

But I do think the players aspect is the interesting part and it really is the crux of the situation. A lot of teams have one or two guys well north of 300 on a D line and have good run D. But most have just one near the nose. Capers tends to go jumbo even in base 3-4 (also in 2-4 if its pass personnel and he expects run) to combat the run. Why is this necessary?

In the nickel its more obvious and probably correct if you think its a run. But in base, why does Capers need to be jumbo to effectively stop the run when very few other team have to do this?

Is he being stubborn or are the more prototypical ends (Jones, Neal, Wilson) just so bad he cannot have them out there? Jolly isn't in there for his pass rush, he is there to clog run lanes. So why do they need to be bigger than most teams on the line? In wist's wished for 3-3 nickel, you can't have Jolly out there because if it is a pass, he is getting you nothing.

Are the players actually good, do they not get good individual instruction or does the scheme simply not work to their strengths?

That's my point - I'm saying that since we don't have 2-gappers, we should 1-gap the DL we have and adjust the personnel.

We can single gap the defensive linemen, but not if there are only 2 of them on the field - if you do that, and only have 6 in the box, 2 of which are probably rushing upfield and taking themselves out of run defense, then you're left with 4 in the box, with 2 of them being LB's who aren't built to take on and shed... you're going to get run over; which of course is what is happening.

Sometimes we're able to fight to a stalemate in the middle of the line, and get away with the alignment against the run, but more often than not, we're giving up 6-7 yards or worse - sometimes much worse.

I really don't think the problem is personnel - I really do think the problem is Capers. True, our personnel are not ideally suited to playing a 3-4, but then it is incumbent upon Capers to devise schemes that take advantage of the strengths they do have. He clearly has not done that - quite the opposite in fact.

The dismal results are there for everyone to see... either TT is clueless at evaluating defensive talent, or Capers is a dunderhead. As for TT, I don't always like his approach, even if I agree with building thru the draft in general, but I do think he is an excellent talent evaluator, and I do like a lot of the players on our defense - that being the case, leaves Capers holding the bag.

This Niners game will be interesting - and if we get run over again, it will be interesting to see if TT makes a change at DC. I don't think he will, but I'm hoping.

[mraynrand]

Did the Packers one-gap more when Wood and Collins were in the secondary? My recollection says yes, and I'm thinking more and more that the 2-gapping is due to terror at the backside inability to shed/avoid blocks and tackle.

[pbmax]

Did the Packers one-gap more when Wood and Collins were in the secondary? My recollection says yes, and I'm thinking more and more that the 2-gapping is due to terror at the backside inability to shed/avoid blocks and tackle.

I don't think that has changed too much. They two gap on run downs and maybe nickel. Remember though, there is a difference between 2 gapping and Double Teaming. Pickett is trying to hold onto his ground AND technically two gaps when he is doubled but no one expects him to make most of the tackles through those gaps. He is expected to clog the lane. Trgo has said they don't 2 gap much, but they also don't call a lot of Jet rushes either (fly upfield, hit first thing whose numbers are less than 90).

Also this is time for a confession: I am conjecturing they are asking Raji to 2 gap based on results. He may not be assigned to 2 gap but to engage his blocker (free up the LBs) and read his one gap. If true, its pretty damning he cannot get off that block when he knows where he must go. What has been definitely reported is that Raji has been asked to stay at home more and free up the LBs.

But with Matthews injury AND Woodson being gone (Bishop and Barnett too) the quality of the second level has gone down. Its also obvious that without a rotation of Zombo, Jones and Walden at LOLB, each player was less than the sum of the parts. When any one of those guys had to start for weeks, teams could scheme/play call them away. When injury forced them to rotate, the opposition did not know what it was dealing with.

Pursuit/Jet rushing Raji and Mathews is also how Adrian Peterson gets a 25 yard run out of the backside of a dive because the defense gets itself out of shape. He goes left, they chase, he swerves backside which is in pursuit and he gets around the end into open pasture. Injuries really hurt here because if you know Raji is headed for the backfield, you can cover for him.

[mraynrand]

Its also obvious that without a rotation of Zombo, Jones and Walden at LOLB, each player was less than the sum of the parts. When any one of those guys had to start for weeks, teams could scheme/play call them away. When injury forced them to rotate, the opposition did not know what it was dealing with.

That's a really interesting theory. I have no way of knowing whether it's true (unless the opposition fessed up) but it seems plausible. One wonders about the general principle: rotating crap is better than stationary crap.

[pbmax]

I will say this about Capers and wist, it could be he cannot adjust to what he has. What he usually has is a great group of LBs. He does not have that now.

Problem is that to go 3-3 either puts a D Lineman on the field who cannot pass rush OR one who has not proven capable of stopping the run in base. Bigger might help in the run game, but that offense is simply going to pass if it senses that weakness. You tick Jones in there and are you going to get better run D?

The matchup problems are the same. If an offense takes a FB or TE off the field to put in a WR, do you want to shed a LB or DL?

Capers and most others want a LB to stay because its a better matchup AND in 3-4 rosters, that is where the pass rush/coverage is. Problem is, its not getting home enough.

[pbmax]

That's a really interesting theory. I have no way of knowing whether it's true (unless the opposition fessed up) but it seems plausible. One wonders about the general principle: rotating crap is better than stationary crap.

I think it worked only because they could NOT have been different. Jones had sacks but was actually good at holding the point. Zombo could bull rush and pursue. Walden was just kind of an athletic freak who could some of each and was OK in a one on one open field match.

[bobblehead]

I wondered a while back if he could 2 gap, in the context of the fact that he was being used more in the run game. KY was adamant he could not.

I have to believe KY, because they keep him inactive...and we primarily ask our DL to 2 gap it seems. Or if we are not asking that they suck even worse than I thought.

[bobblehead]

They still run 3-4 on the majority of 1st downs but it hasn't been as effective. i wrote this elsewhere but 2 gapping Raji has reduced his involvement and he doesn't shed unless he is quick off the ball. And Picket has been hurt and doubles are turning him.

I have no doubt though that teams run their 3WR-1TE-1RB package out there with the full intention of running out of it. Problem is, if Capers goes back to 3-4, that 3rd receiver or TE is killing the underneath coverage. The nickel and dime have slowed that recently since they shelved House and slot Tramontana and put Bush and Hyde inside with Tramontana sticking wide.

I did notice an improvement in tramon when they moved him outside. Sadly as you pointed out, it means we need to use Bush on defense. I like our D a lot more when Hayward is there.

[bobblehead]

I didn't think you did say that. Somebody did in a thread mid-season. Wilson is an average player, lucky if he can secure the one gap he's assigned.

The Pack has two guys who can two gap. Pickett and jolly. Raji has been on the nose and is assigned to two gap, but that really ain't his style. when he's on, he can be an effective middle DLineman, but damn, he's been hit or miss this year.

I also like the 30 fronts we ran at the beginning of the season, but I think the loss of Jolly and other factors have caused Capers to try to use that 2-4 deal more.

I'd be more critical of the defense, but with the personnel we have presently, I really can't say what we should be doing.

I wonder what the many internet DC's would draw up if they were handed the chalk?

I for some reason think Wilson is above average. Misused to be sure. He always seems active and making an impact when he is on the field though. Maybe I am wrong, but I am betting he starts somewhere next year.

[pbmax]

I did notice an improvement in tramon when they moved him outside. Sadly as you pointed out, it means we need to use Bush on defense. I like our D a lot more when Hayward is there.

Bush will at least knock some TEs around. It will cost the occasional penalty, though.

He has played well in the slot before AND he as the second best slot blitzer after Wood.

[mraynrand]

I did notice an improvement in tramon when they moved him outside. Sadly as you pointed out, it means we need to use Bush on defense. I like our D a lot more when Hayward is there.

Bush has played a lot better. It's a shocker to me because after watching him at the end of 2011 against Detroit, I thought he was a total loss except for limited man coverage. But after being absolutely clueless for so long, he seems to have developed a bit of a knack inside. He's made some nice plays the past few weeks. I do expect SF to target him like they targeted McMillian in the opener though....

[bobblehead]

Put the way KY just put it, I think you have to one gap everyone and attack. I am not sure that would be better overall but it would be something else to show them. If Adrian Peterson were still in the playoffs I would be too scared to try it.

Jolly is out, Wilson isn't the answer and Boyd is young. The best thing on the line are Raji, Jones and Neal when he is inside on the nickel. Stick two of the faster guys at end with Raji and Pickett rotating and hit gaps. Its could leave each ILB fighting a Guards but I am not sure what else to do. It seems insane that its going to get better unless they suddenly get healthy. I don't think they can run a 4-3, there isn't a MLB on the roster.

Talking through this, I am more convinced than ever that they really need a top notch ILB next to Hawk. Someone who will clean up all the trash left lying around while all the other guys wrestle.

I think there has to be a better way than we are approaching. Asking Raji (who isn't good at it) and Pickett (who is damaged) to 2 gap with NO OTHER FATTIES in the game is a huge chore. I guess some teams might do it, I don't watch other games analytically enough to say. I just think it opens you up to one of them being doubled into the other and still allowing a OL to plant the LB's. Throw in a lead back or TE on a dback and good luck stopping a run.

[bobblehead]

Most of the comments in this thread come back to my 2-3 year long contention that we are drafting good players, but they are miscast for either a straight-up 3-4, and/or whatever it is that Capers is trying to do.

We can't really go to a straight-up 3-4 b/c we don't have enough 2-gap DL, especially with Jolly out now; and Capers using the 2-4 as more of base than a sub-package, which is what it should be, certainly isn't working. Which brings us back to my contention that we should be using more 3-3 nickel alignments.

Capers 2-4 is getting flat out run over, and generating little pressure - one thing is for sure, this is not the answer, yet it is his "run to safety" alignment.

By swapping out the 2-4 for a 3-3, you at least have 3 down linemen who are in-line and prepared to take on the run, as opposed to just having 2. You also have another 40-70 lbs of muscle/fat in the box to either stuff the run, or squeeze the pocket. You still have the 5th DB on the field to deal with the 3rd WR, and you still have the option of using one of the 3 LB slots as a cover a guy, ala Brad Jones. You can man Jones up on the RB, or drop Hawk and the safety into short zones; you can play man or cover 2 on the outside and in the back.

In short, you have just as much flexibility, depending on personnel as you do with a 2-4. The 2-4 is getting us dismal results. If you can't get home by rushing 4 out of that alignment, then you need to give it a different look using most of the same personnel. I'd use the personnel in waves to keep everyone fresh, and scheme formations to down and distance relative to the offensive personnel. You're still matching up to their personnel, but you are better able to dictate to them, as opposed to them dictating to you.

Capers is entirely reactionary, while occassionally throwing in an exotic blitz wrinkle. Then he goes right back to his 2-4 and gives up easy yards.

I do expect Capers to run more 3-4 against the Niners, but with Jolly out, Raji and Pickett worn down, everyone else miscast as 3-4 down linemen, and Capers penchant to jump to the 2-4 as soon as possible - I expect a repeat of game 1 from this year.

Maybe the weather will help us? and maybe Rodgers and the offense can do enough? Let's hope so - it's the playoffs, and we have a puncher's chance.

Me and my pal wist :) I agree almost 100%. If you at least run a 3 man front you can use your 1 gap players. Its harder to wash them with a double team vs. the run. They also might just get some pressure up the middle on Kaperpuke and force him to the containing OLB's rushing from the edge. As long as your edge rushers don't push too far up the field you can force him to stumble around and do what he doesn't do well...throw under pressure.

[mraynrand]

Me and my pal wist :) I agree almost 100%. If you at least run a 3 man front you can use your 1 gap players. Its harder to wash them with a double team vs. the run. They also might just get some pressure up the middle on Kaperpuke and force him to the containing OLB's rushing from the edge. As long as your edge rushers don't push too far up the field you can force him to stumble around and do what he doesn't do well...throw under pressure.

That would be great if any of the one-gapping linemen could actually generate pass rush. Otherwise, all Kap has to do is threaten run and wait for a receiver to clear.

[bobblehead]

Did the Packers one-gap more when Wood and Collins were in the secondary? My recollection says yes, and I'm thinking more and more that the 2-gapping is due to terror at the backside inability to shed/avoid blocks and tackle.

Thing is, if you have 3 guys 1 gapping they should disrupt the run, maybe even make a tackle. That will make up for any deficiency.

[bobblehead]

That would be great if any of the one-gapping linemen could actually generate pass rush. Otherwise, all Kap has to do is threaten run and wait for a receiver to clear.

They simply have to collapse the pocket. Something I have seen Wilson and Raji to plenty of over the years. Daniels seems adept at it as well.

[Packers4Glory]

just 3 points?

yikes I'm fearful we will get run out of the stadium.

[pbmax]

Me and my pal wist :) I agree almost 100%. If you at least run a 3 man front you can use your 1 gap players. Its harder to wash them with a double team vs. the run. They also might just get some pressure up the middle on Kaperpuke and force him to the containing OLB's rushing from the edge. As long as your edge rushers don't push too far up the field you can force him to stumble around and do what he doesn't do well...throw under pressure.

Right now Boyd or Daniels is your third DL. I just don't think there is much improvement there. Each has been a far better pass rusher than run defender.

[pbmax]

They simply have to collapse the pocket. Something I have seen Wilson and Raji to plenty of over the years. Daniels seems adept at it as well.

I would not be surprised to see Raji in for some pass rush nickel now that the playoffs are here.

[pbmax]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 2m
RB Eddie Lacy (ankle) was a full go at practice. ILB Brad Jones (ankle) also practicing. #packers

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 5m
#Packers practice: Lacy practicing in full. B. Jones working also. Only player missing was LB Victor Aiyewa.

And Matthews, who McCarthy said "right now, he is out" but after admitting he had not talked to the Docs yet.

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 3h
Packers practice update: Neal n Perry returned so only player not practicing is Matthews, who is out

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 3h
RB Eddie Lacy (ankle) was a full go at practice. ILB Brad Jones (ankle) also practicing. #packers

[pbmax]

Aaron Schatz ‏@FO_ASchatz 1h
More on this in NFC WC preview tomorrow, but one of the dumbest decisions of the year has to be GB replacing Masthay with Crosby on KOs.

[denverYooper]

And Matthews, who McCarthy said "right now, he is out" but after admitting he had not talked to the Docs yet.


Maybe Clay is the gay player.

[mraynrand]

Maybe Clay is the gay player.

Hey, keep this in the gay player thread!

[pbmax]

Hey, keep this in the gay player thread!

Its not labeled Official yet.

[denverYooper]

Matt Barrows ‏@mattbarrows 38m

Carlos Rogers did not practice with a hamstring injury while his possible replacement, Eric Wright, was limited with a hamstring injury.

[Joemailman]

Matt Barrows ‏@mattbarrows 38m

Carlos Rogers did not practice with a hamstring injury while his possible replacement, Eric Wright, was limited with a hamstring injury.

When did they hire the Packers training staff?

[pbmax]

When did they hire the Packers training staff?

On the other hand headlines like this are making me cranky:

Only One Eagle Misses Thursday Practice (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/02/only-one-eagle-misses-thursday-practice/)

[mraynrand]

Matt Barrows ‏@mattbarrows 38m

Carlos Rogers did not practice with a hamstring injury while his possible replacement, Eric Wright, was limited with a hamstring injury.

Fans in Cleveland really hated Eric Wright. Guilty of absolute mental breakdowns. Has plenty of talent, but he runs hot and cold. Hopefully, he will be very cold on Sunday.

[denverYooper]

Fans in Cleveland really hated Eric Wright. Guilty of absolute mental breakdowns. Has plenty of talent, but he runs hot and cold. Hopefully, he will be very cold on Sunday.

The matchup in the slot, likely over Cobb, will definitely be something to hope works out well for Green Bay. Guys on bad hammies in cold weather against one of Green Bay's fastest players. I hope the Packers test that out early...

[woodbuck27]

That's my point - I'm saying that since we don't have 2-gappers, we should 1-gap the DL we have and adjust the personnel.

We can single gap the defensive linemen, but not if there are only 2 of them on the field - if you do that, and only have 6 in the box, 2 of which are probably rushing upfield and taking themselves out of run defense, then you're left with 4 in the box, with 2 of them being LB's who aren't built to take on and shed... you're going to get run over; which of course is what is happening.

Sometimes we're able to fight to a stalemate in the middle of the line, and get away with the alignment against the run, but more often than not, we're giving up 6-7 yards or worse - sometimes much worse.

I really don't think the problem is personnel - I really do think the problem is Capers. True, our personnel are not ideally suited to playing a 3-4, but then it is incumbent upon Capers to devise schemes that take advantage of the strengths they do have. He clearly has not done that - quite the opposite in fact.

The dismal results are there for everyone to see... either TT is clueless at evaluating defensive talent, or Capers is a dunderhead. As for TT, I don't always like his approach, even if I agree with building thru the draft in general, but I do think he is an excellent talent evaluator, and I do like a lot of the players on our defense - that being the case, leaves Capers holding the bag.

This Niners game will be interesting - and if we get run over again, it will be interesting to see if TT makes a change at DC. I don't think he will, but I'm hoping.

" This Niners game will be interesting - and if we get run over again, it will be interesting to see if TT makes a change at DC. I don't think he will..." wist43

I'm rushing to the bathroom and getting down on my knees before the throne.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe Clay is the gay player.

Maybe there's not enough toilet paper in the teams locker room 'Lou's'?

[woodbuck27]

Hey, keep this in the gay player thread!

**Do we have a 'Gay player thread'?

Where's that thread located on Packerrats?

** If so ...Packerrats is an obvious trend setting NFL Team Board. One once again that I'm so proud to be a member of.

[wist43]

That would be great if any of the one-gapping linemen could actually generate pass rush. Otherwise, all Kap has to do is threaten run and wait for a receiver to clear.

You're just being contrarian now - if those 1-gap DL can't generate pass rush with 3 of them on the field, they certainly couldn't with 2 on the field, could they??

You can't pan the 3-3 idea with this argument b/c 1) you would have 2 1-gap players on the field anyway, 2) the third 1-gap DL would be replaced with a non-pass rushing LB, i.e. a player that wouldn't be generating any pass rush anyway.

By that argument you're conceding that we can't possibly generate any pressure?? I don't accept that - I think we have players that can be disruptive up front, if they are used properly.

Raji was the 9th pick in the draft. His strength was his quickness off the snap and his ability to penetrate. The Packers drafted him and then promptly had him play exactly not that way. He's wasted as a 2-gap player, and he's worn down as a result. Daniels is another 1-gap disrupter, so is D. Jones.

Those are 3 guys right there, that if used properly, and kept fresh for that purpose, could be very disruptive in multiple, odd-man front subpackages. Capers doesn't use them that way though, does he??

[bobblehead]

You're just being contrarian now - if those 1-gap DL can't generate pass rush with 3 of them on the field, they certainly couldn't with 2 on the field, could they??

You can't pan the 3-3 idea with this argument b/c 1) you would have 2 1-gap players on the field anyway, 2) the third 1-gap DL would be replaced with a non-pass rushing LB, i.e. a player that wouldn't be generating any pass rush anyway.

By that argument you're conceding that we can't possibly generate any pressure?? I don't accept that - I think we have players that can be disruptive up front, if they are used properly.

Raji was the 9th pick in the draft. His strength was his quickness off the snap and his ability to penetrate. The Packers drafted him and then promptly had him play exactly not that way. He's wasted as a 2-gap player, and he's worn down as a result. Daniels is another 1-gap disrupter, so is D. Jones.

Those are 3 guys right there, that if used properly, and kept fresh for that purpose, could be very disruptive in multiple, odd-man front subpackages. Capers doesn't use them that way though, does he??

To top it off, if your 1 gap players are penetrating (which is the goal) then they are disrupting the run as well. If you had 2 Picketts in his prime (which is close to healthy pickett and jolley I guess) you can get away with those 2 guys and still being tough on the run. You are damn near conceding any pass rush out of them though.

[woodbuck27]

To top it off, if your 1 gap players are penetrating (which is the goal) then they are disrupting the run as well. If you had 2 Picketts in his prime (which is close to healthy pickett and jolley I guess) you can get away with those 2 guys and still being tough on the run. You are damn near conceding any pass rush out of them though.

The team is in trouble here.

This upcoming game is IMO headed for a shoot out scheme on offense.

It will come down to the Packers decidedly winning the battle of the clock again by a wide margin as the Packers did Vs the Bears.

Packers TOP: 35:09 ... VS... Bears TOP 24:51

It'll come down to analysis of what went right or wrong here:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/play-by-play/20131229003/green-bay-packers--chicago-bears

It'll come down to realistic preparation in every regard.

It's going to be a game played in harsh/brutal conditions.

Just like last week I can't wait to see a victory for 'the Good Guys'. The Green Bay Packers defeat the San Francisco 49ers.

That will happen Packerrats.

Count on that result. A GREEN BAY PACKER VICTORY.

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

You're just being contrarian now - if those 1-gap DL can't generate pass rush with 3 of them on the field, they certainly couldn't with 2 on the field, could they??

No. But with one less on the field, I can put the specialist pass rushing OLB on the field. Which is the point of the nickel.

This simply comes down to worst case scenario: leak run yards or let pass plays break for big gains. Choose your poison. If the Packers were a good tackling team at safety, I would be more sanguine about the pass plays.

Bobble point about playing the run while jetting upfield is a very interesting point. You can disrupt a run game that way. You can also have a good back go for 200 against you because he is patient and waits for you to pass by. Its also how Kapernick got his first 80 yards in the playoff game. As wist has pointed out, there is some talent in the smaller D lineman so I could be convinced about this option in the 2-4 rather than for 3-3

[woodbuck27]

No. But with one less on the field, I can put the specialist pass rushing OLB on the field. Which is the point of the nickel.

This simply comes down to worst case scenario: leak run yards or let pass plays break for big gains. Choose your poison. If the Packers were a good tackling team at safety, I would be more sanguine about the pass plays.

Bobble point about playing the run while jetting upfield is a very interesting point. You can disrupt a run game that way. You can also have a good back go for 200 against you because he is patient and waits for you to pass by. Its also how Kapernick got his first 80 yards in the playoff game. As wist has pointed out, there is some talent in the smaller D lineman so I could be convinced about this option in the 2-4 rather than for 3-3

Then we simply need more players on 'D' ie LBers and Safety's that play 'Heads Up' ball.

I hate it when a LBer goes streaking by a RB with the ball corralled in his arms. Remember when it used to be so simple:

1) Who's got the ball?

2) Get the guy with the ball on his ass ASAP.

[denverYooper]

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/66276430/


Mike McCarthy will have played Jim Harbaugh's patsy for 358 days by kickoff on Sunday. McCarthy has been Charlie Brown; Harbaugh has been Lucy holding for a PAT. McCarthy and his staff have been the suckers at the poker table with a flashing billboard of a tell, always one move behind Harbaugh, the sharpie with a visor. The Packers have fallen for every feint, and their success on Sunday does not rest on stopping Colin Kaepernick, but on stopping the long con.

[Packers4Glory]

I'm quite concerned with Vernon Davis vs our LB corps. I see guys like him run free over the middle way too often.

GB should have won vs SF this yr, but 2 of these 3 times GB has been decimated with injuries. When you have idiots like Walden getting torched on every play giving up contain on the outside, you're going to get your ass handed to you.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/66276430/

"Rodgers can put up 28 points against the 49ers defense, but he cannot help his defense keep the 49ers under 30. He can only hope that his teammates and ( Edit woodbuck27: coaches ) stop reacting to what the 49ers did last time and start acting on what they are doing now.

The Packers need to get their classic rock albums out and play "Won't Get Fooled Again" on high rotation before kickoff. Otherwise, the 49ers will simply get to ask "Who's Next?" ..." Mike Tanier


Mike Tanier's prediction:

49ers 30, Packers 27

Not bad as it should be a close outcome; but Packerrats think:

The Green Bay Packers on top by a TD!

I'm not so bold as to predict the exact score. :razz:

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

[mraynrand]

I'm quite concerned with Vernon Davis vs our LB corps. I see guys like him run free over the middle way too often.

I think the key for Davis may lie in Bush. Bush could be the key for short stuff to Davis and Boldin in the middle; would like to see him be physical with these guys, like he was with Jeffery and Bennett last week. he could also help the safeties by giving Davis a shot near the line and throwing him off a bit. But VD and Boldin made some great catches in the Sept. game, many against McMillian. Hopefully the Packers do a better job of coverage and Kap continues to struggle with his accuracy. (Some of the big receiving plays came against a soft run-wary zone, so much will depend on how scared Packers are of the run, and how many risks they take running more man coverage, which is their best pass defense)

[Packers4Glory]

I think the key for Davis may lie in Bush. Bush could be the key for short stuff to Davis and Boldin in the middle; would like to see him be physical with these guys, like he was with Jeffery and Bennett last week. he could also help the safeties by giving Davis a shot near the line and throwing him off a bit. But VD and Boldin made some great catches in the Sept. game, many against McMillian. Hopefully the Packers do a better job of coverage and Kap continues to struggle with his accuracy. (Some of the big receiving plays came against a soft run-wary zone, so much will depend on how scared Packers are of the run, and how many risks they take running more man coverage, which is their best pass defense)

ugh at any key to the defense being Bush. But after reading the Capers excuse article he's got a lot of experience so at least he might be assignment sure. I'll take that over ability at this point.

[woodbuck27]

I think the key for Davis may lie in Bush. Bush could be the key for short stuff to Davis and Boldin in the middle; would like to see him be physical with these guys, like he was with Jeffery and Bennett last week. he could also help the safeties by giving Davis a shot near the line and throwing him off a bit. But VD and Boldin made some great catches in the Sept. game, many against McMillian. Hopefully the Packers do a better job of coverage and Kap continues to struggle with his accuracy. (Some of the big receiving plays came against a soft run-wary zone, so much will depend on how scared Packers are of the run, and how many risks they take running more man coverage, which is their best pass defense)

Of late these two ( V. Davis and A. Boldin) have been the go to threats through the air.

A. Boldin has become the same as he was with RE: THE RAVENS last year and must be contained.

I can't wait to see this game. About 54 Hrs and 24 Mins to go !

[denverYooper]

Of late these two ( V. Davis and A. Boldin) have been the go to threats through the air.

A. Boldin has become the same as he was with RE: THE RAVENS last year and must be contained.

I can't wait to see this game. About 54 Hrs and 24 Mins to go !

It will be interesting to see how much the cold affects the 49ers passing game, from both ends. This is one area where Green Bay will gain a slight advantage in preparing outside -- that football is going to be a rock. As Tanier mentioned, Green Bay's defense has been snookered by the 49ers ability to con them into preparing for one facet of their offense while throwing another at them. If the cold weather can reduce the number of facets and mute San Fransisco's passing game (or help with some loose balls/INTs) then that's to Green Bay's advantage, as long as they don't let the 9ers run for 300 again. I think the weather and opponent will allow the Packers to play some of their better tacklers (Hyde/Bush/Richardson) and that should help. Will it be enough?

[pbmax]

My concern is Crabtree. Packer spent time doubling Davis in the last three games with LB in trail and safety over the top. You could double Boldin similarly unless he goes deep.

Crabtree could be a handful to man up on if healthy. I hope he hates the cold.

[bobblehead]

No. But with one less on the field, I can put the specialist pass rushing OLB on the field. Which is the point of the nickel.

This simply comes down to worst case scenario: leak run yards or let pass plays break for big gains. Choose your poison. If the Packers were a good tackling team at safety, I would be more sanguine about the pass plays.

Bobble point about playing the run while jetting upfield is a very interesting point. You can disrupt a run game that way. You can also have a good back go for 200 against you because he is patient and waits for you to pass by. Its also how Kapernick got his first 80 yards in the playoff game. As wist has pointed out, there is some talent in the smaller D lineman so I could be convinced about this option in the 2-4 rather than for 3-3

The point you make is valid, especially with our sorry LB's and DB's. They tackle and fill so badly that said patient back can wait for the opening and count on beating the next level. As for the Kapernick point, its not the same. Its not a designed running play. Any time you can get a QB to forgo a pass, its a good thing. You do, however, have to contain him once he starts running.

[bobblehead]

I think the key for Davis may lie in Bush. Bush could be the key for short stuff to Davis and Boldin in the middle; would like to see him be physical with these guys, like he was with Jeffery and Bennett last week. he could also help the safeties by giving Davis a shot near the line and throwing him off a bit. But VD and Boldin made some great catches in the Sept. game, many against McMillian. Hopefully the Packers do a better job of coverage and Kap continues to struggle with his accuracy. (Some of the big receiving plays came against a soft run-wary zone, so much will depend on how scared Packers are of the run, and how many risks they take running more man coverage, which is their best pass defense)

The key to our season is Bush. I agree. I also just threw up in my mouth a little.

[bobblehead]

My concern is Crabtree. Packer spent time doubling Davis in the last three games with LB in trail and safety over the top. You could double Boldin similarly unless he goes deep.

Crabtree could be a handful to man up on if healthy. I hope he hates the cold.

I hope that by the end of the game he hates Sam Shields.

[mraynrand]

I hope that by the end of the game he hates Sam Shields.


I wonder who will get him, or if they will just stick with whoever lines up across from them, as they promised to do earlier in the season. We saw T Will get abused by Boldin when it mattered most, but he's playing tougher so maybe he holds up better - at least on the outside. Shields can cover Crabtree, probably mostly without any help. Big worry there is footing.

[Maxie the Taxi]

This entire discussion will be academic if the Packers don't tackle well. The first guy to the ball carrier must go in low and wrap up. If he go in high or goes for the strip he'll get straight-armed and miss the tackle. That's been a consistent problem and a killer for this team. Playing off blockers is going to be key too. And avoiding the ever-present "communication" errors. Make the 49ers beat you. Don't hand them gifts.

[denverYooper]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 59s
McCarthy: Eddie practiced all week. Practiced well.

Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 1m
#Packers injury report: Brad Jones probable: Lacy probable; Matthews out; Neal DNPI probable; Perry DNP probable; Pickett limited probable.

[wist43]

No. But with one less on the field, I can put the specialist pass rushing OLB on the field. Which is the point of the nickel.

This simply comes down to worst case scenario: leak run yards or let pass plays break for big gains. Choose your poison. If the Packers were a good tackling team at safety, I would be more sanguine about the pass plays.

Bobble point about playing the run while jetting upfield is a very interesting point. You can disrupt a run game that way. You can also have a good back go for 200 against you because he is patient and waits for you to pass by. Its also how Kapernick got his first 80 yards in the playoff game. As wist has pointed out, there is some talent in the smaller D lineman so I could be convinced about this option in the 2-4 rather than for 3-3

Max, the point of the nickel is to bring in another DB in to give you more flexibility in coverage. You're taking either a DL or LB out in favor of a DB.

Capers isn't taking out a DL, b/c he only has 2 on the field most of the time anyway. Nickel is his base - as has been cited, he plays more 2-4 nickel than any team in the league.

In the 3-3, just as in the 2-4 you already have 5 DB's on the field. That's your "specialist", the DB - to match up with a 3rd WR, or assign a safety to the RB and bring a 5th on the blitz, or assign the safety to the slot guy and send the corner.

What you're talking about doing with the 2-4 is what Caper is already doing. 2DL, 4LB, 5DB's - and we know that is doing nothing but getting us run over in the run game when he does it on 2nd and 6; and we're not generating any pass rush in passing situations.

Your 4th LB is a weaker run defender, and a weaker pass rusher than my 3rd DL. That's the point.

My contention is tilt the personnel to your strengths, i.e. the DL. Instead of a bartender like Francios on the field, or weak POA defenders like Brad Jones or Hawk, you have D. Jones or Daniels on the field.

Again, it's just a subpackage - which is what both of those alignments should be anyway. Bad situation worse is when Capers goes to the 2-4 as his base more often than not. That idiot is playing 2-4 on 1st and 10, 2nd and 6, and 1st and goal from the 1 yd line!!!!

To Capers, the 2-4 is not a subpackage, it's his base. That alone is enough for me to fire him if I'm TT. If I'm TT, why in the hell did I even bother drafting any defensive linemen high in the draft if my defensive coordinator isn't going to play them??

[mraynrand]

Wist:

1) Doesn't Capers use different D-linemen in 2-4 on run and passing downs - Picket and Jolly/Raji/Boyd on run and Daniels and ???/Jones on passing downs? 2) TT drafted Perry and Neal as linemen/LBs, so in the 2-4 they should be able to run stop on obvious run downs and not get absolutely killed in coverage, no? (unless they play man when everyone else is playing zone)
2a) Do you know the frequency of 2-4 on first and ten versus 3-3 and 3-4? (I do not, but 3 down linemen seemed more frequent) Seems like that matters a lot for this discussion (I think Max has given that answer already)
3) Francois is gone for the year on IR, but wasn't he decent in pass coverage. Seemed better than Hawk and Jones - at least less stiff.

4) How would you line up on the goal line (say on the 2) with Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett, and Forte, all who can catch the ball, lined up in a passing formation? What if another WR is out there with them?

[denverYooper]

Bill Barnwell: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10236231/bill-barnwell-sunday-nfl-playoff-games

One big key problem for the Packers: they've lost the turnover battle every time over the last 3 games.


And I don't want to suggest that the Packers are due for a takeaway against the 49ers, but it's pretty incredible that Green Bay has had so much difficulty getting the ball away from the San Francisco offense. The Packers have lost the turnover battle five to one over these three recent Green Bay–San Francisco tilts, and while that one takeaway was a Sam Shields pick-six on the opening drive of last year's playoff game, the Packers just haven't been able to create big plays on defense. It's really important to keep competitive with the 49ers in terms of the turnover margin, too. The 49ers are now 38-4-1 under Harbaugh when they win or tie the turnover battle and 1-9 when they lose it. Everyone does better when they win the turnover battle, but Harbaugh's 49ers are an extreme case.

Getting rid of Ross should help them there :)

[pbmax]

Your 4th LB is a weaker run defender, and a weaker pass rusher than my 3rd DL. That's the point.



Who is your third D lineman versus a 3 WR offense?

[wist43]

Who is your third D lineman versus a 3 WR offense?

Are you gonna put Brad Jones or AJ Hawk on the 3rd WR?? Of course not... unless you drop those guys into an underneath zone and a WR just happens to cross, or sit down in their zone. You're certainly not gonna match up your LB's on someone like Wes Welker - at least you shouldn't be doing that.

Again, these are all just subpackages. If Capers played 3-3 on the run/pass downs, i.e. 2nd and 4, 5, or 6; or 3rd and 3 or less - unless the offense brings out 4 or 5 wides, that would make much more sense.

As it is, Capers is playing 2-4 on downs that are as likely to be runs as pass, and when the offense does run, we're giving up big chunks of yards and 1st downs.

[wist43]

It sounds like you guys are trying to rationalize and justify Capers 2-4, when playing the 2-4 and the constant miscommunications in the back end are what is producing the dismal results, and the reason he may be fired.

Our defense was dead last in yds allowed in 2011, and set a league record for pass defense futility; improved a bit last year, but still nothing to write home about; and we're one of the worst defenses again this year. Injuries account for some of that, but at the end of the day, Capers didn't do nearly enough with the talent he was given. He needs to go.

[pbmax]

Are you gonna put Brad Jones or AJ Hawk on the 3rd WR?? Of course not... unless you drop those guys into an underneath zone and a WR just happens to cross, or sit down in their zone. You're certainly not gonna match up your LB's on someone like Wes Welker - at least you shouldn't be doing that.

Again, these are all just subpackages. If Capers played 3-3 on the run/pass downs, i.e. 2nd and 4, 5, or 6; or 3rd and 3 or less - unless the offense brings out 4 or 5 wides, that would make much more sense.

As it is, Capers is playing 2-4 on downs that are as likely to be runs as pass, and when the offense does run, we're giving up big chunks of yards and 1st downs.

Jones can rush or be in coverage, zone or man. He's not your 5th DB but he gives you options BJ Raji in a zone blitz doesn't.

Capers is playing match ups and tendencies. But teams are running on that front when they see it and its a close call. You can make it bigger, but then they are simply going to pass.

You are going to go heavy against three wides and not have your best pass protection on the field.

Note: This may not be a bad plan versus either the 49ers or Seahawks. It would be death against the Saints or Broncos.

Capers does need to adjust the scheme to the healthy talent, but 3-3 doesn't seem like the key adjustment. Might be situationally.

[pbmax]

SI Wild Card Preview:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/01/03/wild-card-playoffs-colts-chiefs-saints-eagles-bengals-chargers-49ers-packers/2/


San Francisco 49ers at Green Bay Packers (Sunday, 4:40 p.m.)

The one number nobody can account for in this game is minus-51 — that’s the projected wind-chill factor for Lambeau Field on Sunday evening, which could render a lot of the other numbers you’re about to see null and void. The Packers would hope for any kind of change when facing Colin Kaepernick — the third-year 49ers quarterback riddled their defense for a quarterback-record 181 rushing yards in last year’s divisional round, and killed the Packers’ secondary for 412 passing yards and three touchdowns in Week 1 of this season. More bad news — in his last six games, Kaepernick has completed 102 of 165 passes for 1,395 yards (a whopping 8.4 yards per attempt average), 10 touchdowns, and just one interception.

If Kaepernick is able to deal with the weather and play like he has of late, Green Bay will certainly struggle to deal with it. Tramon Williams and Sam Shields, the Packers’ primary cornerbacks, have each been vulnerable in coverage this season. Williams has allowed an 88-1 opposing passer rating and has allowed four touchdowns to just three interceptions. Shields has been better, but not by enough — he’s allowed a 72.7 rating, and allowed four touchdowns to four picks. Both Williams and Micah Hyde have allowed opponent passer ratings of more than 100 in the slot, which could bode well for Anquan Boldin. The veteran receiver has lined up 221 times in the slot this season, and he absolutely killed the Packers in that Week 1 game — he caught 13 passes for 208 yards and a touchdown in his 49ers debut.

Now some good news, Packers fans. In that Week 1 game, quarterback Aaron Rodgers and receiver Randall Cobb — who each returned from injuries last week — did a pretty nice job against San Francisco’s defense. Cobb caught seven passes in 12 targets for 108 yards and a score. According to ESPN’s Stats & Info, no quarterback-receiver duo have hooked up successfully on a higher number of attempts over the last three seasons with a minimum of 150 attempts. In addition, Cobb was able to burn San Francisco for multiple plays of 15 yards or more, continuing a trend from the 2012 postseason, when the 49ers allowed more throws of 15 or more yards downfield (four) than in the entire season (two).

[bobblehead]

Wist:

1) Doesn't Capers use different D-linemen in 2-4 on run and passing downs - Picket and Jolly/Raji/Boyd on run and Daniels and ???/Jones on passing downs? 2) TT drafted Perry and Neal as linemen/LBs, so in the 2-4 they should be able to run stop on obvious run downs and not get absolutely killed in coverage, no? (unless they play man when everyone else is playing zone)
2a) Do you know the frequency of 2-4 on first and ten versus 3-3 and 3-4? (I do not, but 3 down linemen seemed more frequent) Seems like that matters a lot for this discussion (I think Max has given that answer already)
3) Francois is gone for the year on IR, but wasn't he decent in pass coverage. Seemed better than Hawk and Jones - at least less stiff.

4) How would you line up on the goal line (say on the 2) with Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett, and Forte, all who can catch the ball, lined up in a passing formation? What if another WR is out there with them?

Your problem with #1 is that Neal and Perry are on the edge. We are getting killed up the middle for the most part. And to #3 Wist isn't saying some of the linebackers don't do anything well, but when its 2nd and 6 and we go nickel, the pass defending LB's are in the game and they can't run stuff. We need better ILB's who can be complete players so we don't get caught in this game of matching the 3 WR's only to have it run down our throats.

EDIT: and to #4, from the 1, you simply flood the zones. You don't have to worry about Jeffries beating you deep. You don't have to cover him for more than 11 yards of field. You still gotta have some beef on the line though.

[bobblehead]

It sounds like you guys are trying to rationalize and justify Capers 2-4, when playing the 2-4 and the constant miscommunications in the back end are what is producing the dismal results, and the reason he may be fired.

Our defense was dead last in yds allowed in 2011, and set a league record for pass defense futility; improved a bit last year, but still nothing to write home about; and we're one of the worst defenses again this year. Injuries account for some of that, but at the end of the day, Capers didn't do nearly enough with the talent he was given. He needs to go.

The one thing in Capers defense re: miscommunications is the article on JS the other day. He is stuck with a lot of young guys, and a lot of injuries, and that leads to blown assignments.

[pbmax]

Here is Chris Brown (smart football) sticking up for McCarthy's version of the Lombardi sweep.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/87688/lombardi-sweep-redux-how-one-play-and-one-player-can-help-the-packers-this-postseason

[pbmax]

With regard to #1, I think the middle has settled down as a problem, but the solution might be as bad as the original problem.

Raji, Picket and the ILBs have tightened down the middle so its bleeding less slowly. But now, similar to last year, they are leaking on runs around the tackle, usually on 2nd moves. I thought I read this someone in one of the previews but cannot find it now, so its possible I am hallucinating, but I think the Packers have begun to uniforming pinch the middle and leave the ends unguarded.

[woodbuck27]

An interesting discussion.

Thanks Packer fans.

[mraynrand]

With regard to #1, I think the middle has settled down as a problem, but the solution might be as bad as the original problem..... I thought I read this someone in one of the previews but cannot find it now, so its possible I am hallucinating, but I think the Packers have begun to uniforming pinch the middle and leave the ends unguarded.

Sounds like a perfect setup for Kap to run wild around the edges again. Or their quicker RB, whatshisname....

[wist43]

Jones can rush or be in coverage, zone or man. He's not your 5th DB but he gives you options BJ Raji in a zone blitz doesn't.

Capers is playing match ups and tendencies. But teams are running on that front when they see it and its a close call. You can make it bigger, but then they are simply going to pass.

You are going to go heavy against three wides and not have your best pass protection on the field.

Note: This may not be a bad plan versus either the 49ers or Seahawks. It would be death against the Saints or Broncos.

Capers does need to adjust the scheme to the healthy talent, but 3-3 doesn't seem like the key adjustment. Might be situationally.

Max, the point is, and as Bobble tried to help me point out - that we're getting run over on run/pass downs.

If you're in Capers 2-4, you essentially have only 4 players in the box. Raji and Pickett (usually), and Jones and Hawk (usually). Jones is useless againt the run. Raji doesn't 2-gap well and consistently gets turned on double teams, sometimes when only being single blocked; and Hawk can't get off a block to save his life.

That's a recipe for giving up 7-15 yd runs - and that's exactly what we've seen against the 2-4 front.

If you have B. Jones on the field, you essentially have a nickel and 1/2. Who's your 5th DB?? Hyde?? So in Capers 2-4 you already have 3 corners on the field and 2 safeties.

Williams, Shields, Burnett, Jennings and Hyde.

That isn't enough DB's to cover 3 WR's?? Throw in B. Jones who is useless as a pass rusher and against the run. That's 5 1/2 players committed to the pass, when you are in a run/pass situation.

Throw on top of that, that you are as often as not rushing your ends upfield and taking them out of run support, that doesn't leave you much to defend the run with, does it??

The 2-4 may be defensible on some level, in some down-distance-game situations, but it is not defensible the way Capers runs it.

We're just never going to agree on this. You seem to think Capers is doing the best he can with what he has, i.e. you seem content with the results he is getting out of this formation.

Me?? Every time I see him come out in that idiotic formation it ramps my blood pressure up and I have to go play kitchen with my daughter until the offense comes back on the field.

[red]

Williams, Shields, Burnett, Jennings and Hyde.

That isn't enough DB's to cover 3 WR's??

obviously not because we continue to see other teams WR's running wide open all over the field

there was one catch in the bears game where a bear caught the ball and there were no packer players within the picture, and the camera was zoomed out so far that you could see 20 yards in every direction. and that wasn't even the play where shields let his guy run right past him thinking he had safety help while no safety was paying attention

[wist43]

The one thing in Capers defense re: miscommunications is the article on JS the other day. He is stuck with a lot of young guys, and a lot of injuries, and that leads to blown assignments.

Yeah, I read that article... it is exactly why I've always wanted TT to be at least a bit player on the FA market. Bring in a savvy vet for a few years here and there. He hit the jackpot with Woodson - I don't think we go to that SB without Woodson.

But he's done nothing since that first year. We are perpetually one of the youngest teams in the league, and likely always will be under TT. That comes at a cost, and it's always been one of my chief criticisms of TT. He's always building for tomorrow - today doesn't matter. We got lucky and won a SB, that has afforded TT a lot of slack, but building you team exclusively one way, to the exclusion of any other avenue is narrowminded and comes with its own set of problems - problems that we see result in miscommunication on the field far too often.

I don't want to get rid of TT or MM, but I absolutely do want to dump Capers. TT does need to adjust his approach though - we need some veteran leadership back in that secondary, or this nonsense is just going to keep on year and year.

[wist43]

obviously not because we continue to see other teams WR's running wide open all over the field

Maybe we can go to the Green Bay Nickel?? 5 DL, 5 LB, 5 DB's??

:)

[red]

Maybe we can go to the Green Bay Nickel?? 5 DL, 5 LB, 5 DB's??

:)

i'm wondering if we shouldn't just put 2 secondary players on the field and put 9 in the box. we're gonna let guys run around wide open anyways, why waste players?

5-4-2 defense or 4-5-2

[Bossman641]

Sounds like a perfect setup for Kap to run wild around the edges again. Or their quicker RB, whatshisname....

My biggest fear this game

[Bretsky]

Yeah, I read that article... it is exactly why I've always wanted TT to be at least a bit player on the FA market. Bring in a savvy vet for a few years here and there. He hit the jackpot with Woodson - I don't think we go to that SB without Woodson.

But he's done nothing since that first year. We are perpetually one of the youngest teams in the league, and likely always will be under TT. That comes at a cost, and it's always been one of my chief criticisms of TT. He's always building for tomorrow - today doesn't matter. We got lucky and won a SB, that has afforded TT a lot of slack, but building you team exclusively one way, to the exclusion of any other avenue is narrowminded and comes with its own set of problems - problems that we see result in miscommunication on the field far too often.

I don't want to get rid of TT or MM, but I absolutely do want to dump Capers. TT does need to adjust his approach though - we need some veteran leadership back in that secondary, or this nonsense is just going to keep on year and year.


How awesme would a Eugene Robinson type be back there to lead and help Burnett ?

[deake]

With regard to #1, I think the middle has settled down as a problem, but the solution might be as bad as the original problem.

Raji, Picket and the ILBs have tightened down the middle so its bleeding less slowly. But now, similar to last year, they are leaking on runs around the tackle, usually on 2nd moves. I thought I read this someone in one of the previews but cannot find it now, so its possible I am hallucinating, but I think the Packers have begun to uniforming pinch the middle and leave the ends unguarded.

Taking another look at the Bears game, it didn’t seem like they were pinching down as much as the OLBs were containing or setting the edge out too far, leaving an alley for the backs to run through. If the DL were pinching down or the ILBs were setting up too far out, shouldn’t the ILBs fill that hole?

[woodbuck27]

Taking another look at the Bears game, it didn’t seem like they were pinching down as much as the OLBs were containing or setting the edge out too far, leaving an alley for the backs to run through. If the DL were pinching down or the ILBs were setting up too far out, shouldn’t the ILBs fill that hole?

Good observation.

wist43 or pbmax (someone else here) will comment further on that.

[red]

How awesme would a Eugene Robinson type be back there to lead and help Burnett ?

exactly what i want

without the hookers or coke of course, unless he brings enough to share

[Bretsky]

exactly what i want

without the hookers or coke of course, unless he brings enough to share


I may get mocked for this...........but it got me thinking........WHO could have been this yrs Eugene Robinson


ED REED ?????????

[bobblehead]

Ymy chief criticisms of TT. He's always building for tomorrow - today doesn't matter. We got lucky and won a SB, that has afforded TT a lot of slack, but building you team exclusively one way, to the exclusion of any other avenue is narrowminded and comes with its own set of problems - problems that we see result in miscommunication on the field far too often.


This isn't quite fair either though. We went 15-1, and have been to the playoffs 5 straight years. Also played in the NFCC with Favre. And you don't ever get "lucky" to win a superbowl, you earn it. If anything we got UNLUCKY by losing Collins, the 3rd best safety in the league and poised to become the best at that time.

[bobblehead]

I may get mocked for this...........but it got me thinking........WHO could have been this yrs Eugene Robinson


ED REED ?????????

MICHAEL HUFF...consider that my mocking. But in hindsight I wish we had signed the gay safety.

EDIT: I can't resist. Who better to take a young man under his wing and turn him into a man.

[Bretsky]

MICHAEL HUFF...consider that my mocking. But in hindsight I wish we had signed the gay safety.

EDIT: I can't resist. Who better to take a young man under his wing and turn him into a man.


I'll fess up for Huff; and I can take any beating out there :)
I would still have liked to see how Huff did in GB; I still wonder if he's really worse than Jennings or the other scraps we have out there

[Bretsky]

MICHAEL HUFF...consider that my mocking. But in hindsight I wish we had signed the gay safety.

EDIT: I can't resist. Who better to take a young man under his wing and turn him into a man.


WHICH SAFETY ARE YOU REFERRING TO ???

[Bretsky]

TRUE STORY.......Red might appreciate this

Anybody remember Jim Leonard ? I sit by his dads best friend at the Badgers games. On his last round of free agency he contacted GB wanting to get an opportunity. No Interest brining in a smart veteran like Leonard.

I'm not saying Leonard is a star...but the dude is a dam smart football player...certainly similar to better than our #2 safeties and with strong strong leadership skills...........and special team return skills.

Leonard is the only real example of GB choosing to try to develop youth over bringing veteran leaders in....I'm sure there are others

[woodbuck27]

MICHAEL HUFF...consider that my mocking. But in hindsight I wish we had signed the gay safety.

EDIT: I can't resist. Who better to take a young man under his wing and turn him into a man.

FA Kerry Rhodes.

Is he out as Gay?

It's tough for those fellas to get there.

[red]

TRUE STORY.......Red might appreciate this

Anybody remember Jim Leonard ? I sit by his dads best friend at the Badgers games. On his last round of free agency he contacted GB wanting to get an opportunity. No Interest brining in a smart veteran like Leonard.

I'm not saying Leonard is a star...but the dude is a dam smart football player...certainly similar to better than our #2 safeties and with strong strong leadership skills...........and special team return skills.

Leonard is the only real example of GB choosing to try to develop youth over bringing veteran leaders in....I'm sure there are others

see, why wouldn't you even bring him in for a look?

thats why i hate TT

[red]

there goes flowers career

just like collins, career ended by the ass of another player

[woodbuck27]

see, why wouldn't you even bring him in for a look?

thats why i hate TT

TT has to almost mold his boys in clay.

It's part of his should I write 'arrogance' ... naw personality.

[wist43]

This isn't quite fair either though. We went 15-1, and have been to the playoffs 5 straight years. Also played in the NFCC with Favre. And you don't ever get "lucky" to win a superbowl, you earn it. If anything we got UNLUCKY by losing Collins, the 3rd best safety in the league and poised to become the best at that time.

Had we kept the '10 team largely together, Collins not gotten hurt, Jenkins resigned, or at least replaced - the run that won us the SB and the 15-1 season would look more legit; but...

And it's a big BUT, Kansas City exposed us that year, and we've been pretty average as a team ever since, and our defense has been more junk than not since the end of the SB.

If you remember, TT did next to nothing to help the defense in the '11 offseason. He took House in the 4th round, DJ Smith and Ricky Elmore in the 6th, and Lawrence Guy in the 7th. None of those guys contributed anything in '11, and House is the only one still on the roster, but he's been benched.

To me it was obvious our front seven was a disaster waiting to happen, but TT did nothing, and we've paid a heavy price for his unwillingness to address the problem adequately. I think if he had actually recognized the disaster that our defense really was, and had brought in some help in '11, that would have legitimized the SB more, and the 15-1 season might have actually ended in a SB repeat.

As it is, our defense has been so bad these past few years that even with having one of the best QB's in the league, and a loaded offense, we're pretty much an average team and a home underdog in the playoffs this year.

[Bretsky]

see, why wouldn't you even bring him in for a look?

thats why i hate TT


He's a savy veteran and proven winner who wanted to play for Green Bay since he was a kid.
He was a near minimum guy since it was after he got his ching
TT should have brought him in but it's not in his mojo and TT prefers to go with youth with upside five years from now.
You know what you are getting with Jim Leonard....a guy who has overperformed his entire career, and hard studer who is great for the team chemistry. A decent player. But he's not youthful anymore

[woodbuck27]

TRUE STORY.......Red might appreciate this

Anybody remember Jim Leonard ? I sit by his dads best friend at the Badgers games. On his last round of free agency he contacted GB wanting to get an opportunity. No Interest brining in a smart veteran like Leonard.

I'm not saying Leonard is a star...but the dude is a dam smart football player...certainly similar to better than our #2 safeties and with strong strong leadership skills...........and special team return skills.

Leonard is the only real example of GB choosing to try to develop youth over bringing veteran leaders in....I'm sure there are others

FS Jim Leonhard:

http://www.nfl.com/player/jimleonhard/2506279/careerstats

He plays pretty big for a smaller fella.

[bobblehead]

see, why wouldn't you even bring him in for a look?

thats why i hate TT

Because the veterans minimum salary is something like 750k and guaranteed on the first day of the season. Because he would have taken the roster spot of a player who we are hoping to develop. Because he likely wouldn't have been much on ST as an aging guy.

That being said, I think TT brings in a veteran or 2 this year.

[bobblehead]

And it's a big BUT, Kansas City exposed us that year, and we've been pretty average as a team ever since, and our defense has been more junk than not since the end of the SB.

.

Again, I just can't accept that statement as anything credible. We lost one game, but we were exposed. Funny how KC couldn't expose themselves at a nudist convention that year, yet they exposed the team no one else could all year. Most teams get "exposed" at least 4-5 times a year.

[wist43]

Well, guess what I just spied on the boob-tube??

The Eagles playing a 3-3 nickel against the Saints, lol...

I haven't been paying too close attention to personnel and formation in this game, but I decided to pay closer attention to the x's and o's a little bit in this game b/c both offenses are supposed to be explosive, but it is a low scoring game.

The Eagles version looks different than the one I would envision for the Packers b/c their personnel are so different from ours, but the concept is the same. They were doing a lot out of it. The 3 down linemen rushing, sending a LB and corner on one down, a LB and a safety on another, just a LB for a 4 man rush on another.

There's a lot you can do with it. I like that personnel grouping a hell of a lot more than the 2-4.

[Smeefers]

So I just looked at the highlights from the 49ers game. Man we looked good. Watching finley jump 8 yards over a dude to get in the endzone makes me miss him. Rodgers looked sharp as hell. Mathews was a beast, even with the stupid penalty. When we're healthy, we're a fearsome team. I highly suggest a look.

As for the average team thing - average teams don't even sniff the play offs. We've done it for years. Its a factually inaccurate statement.

[wist43]

Again, I just can't accept that statement as anything credible. We lost one game, but we were exposed. Funny how KC couldn't expose themselves at a nudist convention that year, yet they exposed the team no one else could all year. Most teams get "exposed" at least 4-5 times a year.

The Chiefs are a very physical team. They didn't win a lot of games, but against us they simply beat us up physically and even though we were undefeated, and they weren't winning anything, they walked off that field having kicked our asses.

Bobble, our defense set an all-time league worst pass defense record that year!!! As in WORST EVER!!! We may have gone 15-2, but it was all offense, and when push came to shove, we got shoved all over the field. First by KC, and then by the Giants in the playoffs.

[Bossman641]

What's that, 5 straight years in the playoffs with a SB win along the way? Yes, very "average" :roll:

Sometimes I wonder what some posters here would do if they cheered for a true average team

[denverYooper]

Bulletin Board material from Anthony Davis.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 20m

RT @AnthonyDavis76: Nature Boy Ric Flair flew into this shit hole to show us some love. pic.twitter.com/LRZKsmNnoZ

Do most of those guys even know who Rick Flair is? Dude's getting old. They going to bring in Tom Jones next?

[Bossman641]

Bulletin Board material from Anthony Davis.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 20m

RT @AnthonyDavis76: Nature Boy Ric Flair flew into this shit hole to show us some love. pic.twitter.com/LRZKsmNnoZ

Do most of those guys even know who Rick Flair is? Dude's getting old. They going to bring in Tom Jones next?

Ha, I was just seeing the same thing. Are any of the other Four Horsemen available?

[smuggler]

I'm not really worried about the read-option as much in this game. The Packers made it clear that the first player to get crunched on those plays will always be Kaepernick, and the NFL announced that he would not have QB protections in those situations. The 49ers avoided it in the opener largely for that reason.

I'm more concerned with stopping Gore, Davis, and Boldin in that order.

[woodbuck27]

I'm not really worried about the read-option as much in this game. The Packers made it clear that the first player to get crunched on those plays will always be Kaepernick, and the NFL announced that he would not have QB protections in those situations. The 49ers avoided it in the opener largely for that reason.

I'm more concerned with stopping Gore, Davis, and Boldin in that order.

Exactly. They're the primary threats.

[wist43]

What's that, 5 straight years in the playoffs with a SB win along the way? Yes, very "average" :roll:

Sometimes I wonder what some posters here would do if they cheered for a true average team

Well, you got me there... to be sure, we're better than "average". I do admit that I'm measuring against an elevated scale.

I'm measuring against the emblem that is on the side of our helmets "G", which doesn't stand for Green Bay, it stands for "Greatness".

[wist43]

I'm not really worried about the read-option as much in this game. The Packers made it clear that the first player to get crunched on those plays will always be Kaepernick, and the NFL announced that he would not have QB protections in those situations. The 49ers avoided it in the opener largely for that reason.

I'm more concerned with stopping Gore, Davis, and Boldin in that order.

I agree.

[woodbuck27]

What's that, 5 straight years in the playoffs with a SB win along the way? Yes, very "average" :roll:

Sometimes I wonder what some posters here would do if they cheered for a true average team



Going into todays playoff game and the Mike McCarthy Era !:

The Green Bay Packers are six wins and four loss's (6-4) and 1 World Championship.

Vince Lombardi (9-1 in the playoffs) and 5 World Championships.

Mike Holmgren did better than Mike McCarthy has done with back to back Super Bowl appearances, one World Championship and a 9-5 record (.643) in the playoffs.

What's going on!?

** Mike McCarthy has by the estimation of some Packerrats Ted Thompson 'the Draft Genius' as his GM.

** Mike McCarthy has arguably the finest player in the NFL in Aaron Rodgers as his offensive leader.

** Mike McCarthy has such an array of weapons on offense for play calling for Aaron Rodgers to target.

** Mike McCarthy has been touted as anywhere from offensive expert to being an offensive genius.

If we actually lost today.

Yet 'just hypothetically', if the San Fran 49ers actually did turn up and defeat the Green Bay Packers!? In that negative result. Wouldn't this then be a pertinent and fair question?

What 'then' is going on?

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

Well, guess what I just spied on the boob-tube??

The Eagles playing a 3-3 nickel against the Saints, lol...

I haven't been paying too close attention to personnel and formation in this game, but I decided to pay closer attention to the x's and o's a little bit in this game b/c both offenses are supposed to be explosive, but it is a low scoring game.

The Eagles version looks different than the one I would envision for the Packers b/c their personnel are so different from ours, but the concept is the same. They were doing a lot out of it. The 3 down linemen rushing, sending a LB and corner on one down, a LB and a safety on another, just a LB for a 4 man rush on another.

There's a lot you can do with it. I like that personnel grouping a hell of a lot more than the 2-4.

I saw that as well though remember, Ryan plays a hybrid 3-4 that most often looks like a 4-3 because one of his OLB has a hand on the ground. So he takes out a big body on the line to get to that look. The small edge rusher (no idea who it is for the Saints) then is the standard DE.

That said, we will see more base than usual today. And its possible there will be some 3-3 though I don't remember the last time I saw it.

[denverYooper]

What 'then' is going on?

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

Different eras.

And which of the Mikes has done better with the Packers will remain an open question until M3 leaves. If 'hypothetically' M3 wins another superbowl, what then?

[Joemailman]

Going into todays playoff game and the Mike McCarthy Era !:

The Green Bay Packers are six wins and four loss's (6-4) and 1 World Championship.

Vince Lombardi (9-1 in the playoffs) and 5 World Championships.

Mike Holmgren did better than Mike McCarthy has done with back to back Super Bowl appearances, one World Championship and a 9-5 record (.643) in the playoffs.

What's going on!?

** Mike McCarthy has by the estimation of some Packerrats Ted Thompson 'the Draft Genius' as his GM.

** Mike McCarthy has arguably the finest player in the NFL in Aaron Rodgers as his offensive leader.

** Mike McCarthy has such an array of weapons on offense for play calling for Aaron Rodgers to target.

** Mike McCarthy has been touted as anywhere from offensive expert to being an offensive genius.

If we actually lost today.

Yet 'just hypothetically', if the San Fran 49ers actually did turn up and defeat the Green Bay Packers!? In that negative result. Wouldn't this then be a pertinent and fair question?

What 'then' is going on?

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

What would be going on is the defense. When Mike Holmgren won a Super Bowl, the Packers had the NFL's #1 defense. The one year the Packers under MM had an outstanding defense, they won the Super Bowl. You don't necessarily need a great defense to win the Super Bowl, but it's hard to win the Super Bowl with a bad defense.

[woodbuck27]

Different eras.

And which of the Mikes has done better with the Packers will remain an open question until M3 leaves. If 'hypothetically' M3 wins another superbowl, what then?

Then it will be Mike McCarthy trumps Mike Holmgren.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

What would be going on is the defense. When Mike Holmgren won a Super Bowl, the Packers had the NFL's #1 defense. The one year the Packers under MM had an outstanding defense, they won the Super Bowl. You don't necessarily need a great defense to win the Super Bowl, but it's hard to win the Super Bowl with a bad defense.

Yes your correct.

Attention:

Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson.

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

[denverYooper]

What would be going on is the defense. When Mike Holmgren won a Super Bowl, the Packers had the NFL's #1 defense. The one year the Packers under MM had an outstanding defense, they won the Super Bowl. You don't necessarily need a great defense to win the Super Bowl, but it's hard to win the Super Bowl with a bad defense.

Maybe God will tell JJ Watt to go to Green Bay in FA.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe God will tell JJ Watt to go to Green Bay in FA.

Maybe 'his Higher Power' will help TT get some clue, finally; as to how to be pro active and help his teams coach's correct the catastrophe that's the Packers defense.

First he has to simply talk to 'his Higher Power'. Ask for some common sense direction.

GO PACK GO !

[Rastak]

Bulletin Board material from Anthony Davis.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 20m

RT @AnthonyDavis76: Nature Boy Ric Flair flew into this shit hole to show us some love. pic.twitter.com/LRZKsmNnoZ

Do most of those guys even know who Rick Flair is? Dude's getting old. They going to bring in Tom Jones next?


Dammit, now I got Pussy Cat Pussy Cat running through my mind....thanks alot......

[woodbuck27]

Dammit, now I got Pussy Cat Pussy Cat running through my mind....thanks alot......

For the younger Packerrats:

That famous Welsh Entertainer ... Tom 'Mr. Desirable' Jones - What's New Pussycat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBdSqk78nHw

[Joemailman]

Dammit, now I got Pussy Cat Pussy Cat running through my mind....thanks alot......

Woah Woah Woah Woah Woah.

[wist43]

I saw that as well though remember, Ryan plays a hybrid 3-4 that most often looks like a 4-3 because one of his OLB has a hand on the ground. So he takes out a big body on the line to get to that look. The small edge rusher (no idea who it is for the Saints) then is the standard DE.

That said, we will see more base than usual today. And its possible there will be some 3-3 though I don't remember the last time I saw it.

I saw Ryan playing it as well, but it was the Eagles I was referring to. They were running a 3-3.

Both of those teams personnel are very different from our though - but as I said, the concept is the same.

In the old days, when 4-3 teams went to the nickel they took the MLB out (more often than not, b/c he was generally more of a run game thumper) and replaced him with a DB. Same thing in the 3-4, take out your LB that is more geared to taking on and shedding in the run game and replace him with a DB.

The 3-3 versions I saw both teams running last night were, at least in general, what I have in mind for what Capers should be doing - but he's not going to do it. I do agree that he will run a lot more base 3-4 in this game b/c of SF's OL and running game, but his default alignment will always be the 2-4, which I hate. If he's in that 2-4 in run/pass situations, I don't like our chances at all in this game. If he mixes it up, we might be able to hang close enough to have a punchers chance.

Was listening to the radio yesterday, betting money is all on SF... didn't hear anyone say they think the Packers have a chance. Only one guy laid the blame on Capers, most just cited our weak defense - but everyone agreed we can't hang with the Niners.

I think our offense can hang with them - it all comes down to Mr. Spraypainted Hair.

[woodbuck27]

Last week... MM got away with some third and fourth down short yardage situations and calling pass to the outside to pick it up. If he tries that today as much, that's not smart.

Assuming that at least two of three, Lacy, Starks and Kuhn = OK:

MM should run the ball on these short yardage situations or he's going to wear out the Packer OL forced to pass protect against a superior defense.

GO PACK GO !

[bobblehead]

Maybe God will tell JJ Watt to go to Green Bay in FA.

Is he wisconsin born? I think Joe Thomas was.

[bobblehead]

I saw Ryan playing it as well, but it was the Eagles I was referring to. They were running a 3-3.

Both of those teams personnel are very different from our though - but as I said, the concept is the same.

In the old days, when 4-3 teams went to the nickel they took the MLB out (more often than not, b/c he was generally more of a run game thumper) and replaced him with a DB. Same thing in the 3-4, take out your LB that is more geared to taking on and shedding in the run game and replace him with a DB.

The 3-3 versions I saw both teams running last night were, at least in general, what I have in mind for what Capers should be doing - but he's not going to do it. I do agree that he will run a lot more base 3-4 in this game b/c of SF's OL and running game, but his default alignment will always be the 2-4, which I hate. If he's in that 2-4 in run/pass situations, I don't like our chances at all in this game. If he mixes it up, we might be able to hang close enough to have a punchers chance.

Was listening to the radio yesterday, betting money is all on SF... didn't hear anyone say they think the Packers have a chance. Only one guy laid the blame on Capers, most just cited our weak defense - but everyone agreed we can't hang with the Niners.

I think our offense can hang with them - it all comes down to Mr. Spraypainted Hair.

I posted this in the gameday thread...along with Walden getting optioned by Alex Smith for first downs. Incedentally the betting money was all on KC and Philly yesterday. The books are usually smarter than the bettors.

[woodbuck27]

I posted this in the gameday thread...along with Walden getting optioned by Alex Smith for first downs. Incedentally the betting money was all on KC and Philly yesterday. The books are usually smarter than the bettors.

Last time I looked the Colts and Eagles were -2.5 Point Fav's.

I should have gone with my analysis and Saints but sometimes you get away from that with a thing like their road record this season. it's a new show and all new. It's the playoffs. It's the Saints and a solid 'D" and Drew Brees and Sean Payton.

That's a lot !

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10245932/sean-payton-drew-brees-make-new-orleans-saints-threat

Duo makes Saints a dynamic threat

With Payton and Brees, New Orleans capable of winning anywhere, even Seattle

Originally Published: January 5, 2014

[bobblehead]

Last time I looked the Colts and Eagles were -2.5 Point Fav's.

I should have gone with my analysis and Saints but sometimes you get away from that with a thing like their road record this season. it's a new show and all new. It's the playoffs. It's the Saints and a solid 'D" and Drew Brees and Sean Payton.

That's a lot !

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/10245932/sean-payton-drew-brees-make-new-orleans-saints-threat

Duo makes Saints a dynamic threat

With Payton and Brees, New Orleans capable of winning anywhere, even Seattle

Originally Published: January 5, 2014

By gametime the Colts were 1 point dogs and if you bet the Eagles -2.5 you had to lay -135. That means the public/money was BIG on KC and Philly.

[woodbuck27]

By gametime the Colts were 1 point dogs and if you bet the Eagles -2.5 you had to lay -135. That means the public/money was BIG on KC and Philly.

OK then.... I've got that. Thanks.

In the now....

The game in Cincy is over. The Underdog will win that game.

The Bolts just saw their longest run of the season cash for six more. It's over ! 20 unanswered points for San Diego. The Bengals lose theit first and last at home this season.

Andy Dalton carry's 'the Choke Collar' for another season.

Another Denver Vs San Diego Re-Match next week.

Philip Rivers is pumped this season and that game in Denver could be very very good. The Chargers are looking much better on the road of late.

[smuggler]

I'm really not too impressed with Andy Dalton. He's a top-20 QB in a league of 32 starting spots.

[woodbuck27]

I'm really not too impressed with Andy Dalton. He's a top-20 QB in a league of 32 starting spots.

He's certainly got a monkey on his back.

[smuggler]

wrong thread