Nick Perry?

[Pugger]

I have been thinking about our recent drafts and I think TT and company made an error with Nick Perry. Not that Perry is not a good player but I feel they screwed up taking this player and trying to mold him into a LBer when they should have just let him play his natural position. This transition for him along with his injuries is making him appear to be a bust when I think had they should have just let him play DE.

[call_me_ishmael]

This pick reminds me of Mike Neal. You can see obvious talent and physical abilities, but those don't do you any good on the bench or playing at 50%. Last year, he missed the entire season with a wrist injury. He was originally on the injured list for a bad knee last year. He had two bad injuries last year, and then a cracked foot this year. It's not looking good for him to stay healthy if you can't stay healthy when you're a young man.

He is not long or big enough to be a 3-4 end in my uninformed opinion. He is an inch or two shorter than Datone Jones, and like 30 pounds lighter I think.

He doesn't look very good to me, though. Athletic, maybe, but he doesn't look like a guy who tries all that hard or has a lot of tricks up his sleeve.

[red]

the thing is, when mathews went pro, i think, perry moved to fill in the same spot clay left at USC

and he looked good doing it

honestly, i loved the pick when we made it and had high hopes for him

but it definitely hasn't panned out yet

[Striker]

Is he fast enough to be moved inside?

Hopefully a healthy year should help him develop further.

[wist43]

He doesn't fit a 3-4, Raji doesn't fit a 3-4, Jones isn't a good fit IMO, neither is Neal.

That's TT picking guys he thinks are "good football players", without giving a shit about whether they'll fit a scheme or not.

That said, given that TT has done nothing but provide Capers with misfit toys, it is up to Capers to make it work, and Capers has misused everyone in that front seven.

I think a decent DC would be putting those guys in better positions to make plays.

[red]

He doesn't fit a 3-4, Raji doesn't fit a 3-4, Jones isn't a good fit IMO, neither is Neal.

That's TT picking guys he thinks are "good football players", without giving a shit about whether they'll fit a scheme or not.

That said, given that TT has done nothing but provide Capers with misfit toys, it is up to Capers to make it work, and Capers has misused everyone in that front seven.

I think a decent DC would be putting those guys in better positions to make plays.

raji was the perfect prospect for a NT, exactly what we needed. no one ever taught him how to play it though. i'll agree he's a bad fit as a DE, but he SHOULD have been a good NT

[pbmax]

He doesn't fit a 3-4, Raji doesn't fit a 3-4, Jones isn't a good fit IMO, neither is Neal.

That's TT picking guys he thinks are "good football players", without giving a shit about whether they'll fit a scheme or not.

That said, given that TT has done nothing but provide Capers with misfit toys, it is up to Capers to make it work, and Capers has misused everyone in that front seven.

I think a decent DC would be putting those guys in better positions to make plays.

Don't say wist and I never agree on anything because health issues or no, his mind is clear on this.

I would add I think the complexity issue hurts Capers as well, though he has taken steps to diffuse it.

This explanation also explains why some highly thought of assistant coaches have under performing units.

Truthfully, I would prefer Thompson modify his drafting philosophy. But if McCarthy can make it work on offense, it should be possible on D.

[red]

Is he fast enough to be moved inside?

Hopefully a healthy year should help him develop further.

i don't hink he has the cover skills, and he is pretty slow.

he's more like terrell suggs rather then ray lewis if that helps

[pbmax]

raji was the perfect prospect for a NT, exactly what we needed. no one ever taught him how to play it though. i'll agree he's a bad fit as a DE, but he SHOULD have been a good NT

He isn't an NT though. Not a 3-4 NT where he is always getting doubled. He could do it in a 4-3 where he shares the burden or he could play 3 tech in that 4-3, but straight nose and battling double teams every play is not his strong suit.

He can't get off blocks regularly in one on ones.

[red]

He isn't an NT though. Not a 3-4 NT where he is always getting doubled. He could do it in a 4-3 where he shares the burden or he could play 3 tech in that 4-3, but straight nose and battling double teams every play is not his strong suit.

He can't get off blocks regularly in one on ones.

and is that something that you can't teach a 22 year old 350 pound kid how to do?

or is it all instinct and will?

[pbmax]

and is that something that you can't teach a 22 year old 350 pound kid how to do?

or is it all instinct and will?

That is the great unanswerable question in my years of following football.

Willis Adams was a WR the Browns took and he had EVERY physical tool you want in a WR. But he was a body catcher and he dropped balls like he was a bumper in pool. Two years they tried to teach him to catch with his hands extended. They brought Paul Warfield out to help him and every other stunt you can imagine. His third or fourth year, after not playing much, they finally said he's starting, we don't care if he catches the ball with his feet.

He was terrible because he was completely unreliable. No QB wants to throw a ball against a wall of a WR.

Can you teach football skills to everyone? Maybe, but there is a lot of failure first. Raji is good enough and rare enough that he will go to a team that will let him jet into the backfield and get paid handsomely.

In his veteran years, after some of that speed has worn off, if he wants to continue to play or at least get paid he might put to use some of the things he has been taught and become a more complete player. Even Pickett was thought to be a disappointment to the Rams when he left. But Raji might never do it here.

[Brandon494]

Still too early on Perry, only been in the league for 2 years. It just hasn't clicked for him yet but the tools are there. Hopefully we'll see more in year three when he and Matthews can play a whole season together.

[mraynrand]

Still too early on Perry, only been in the league for 2 years. It just hasn't clicked for him yet but the tools are there. Hopefully we'll see more in year three when he and Matthews can play a whole season together.

And he's been hurt, so who the hell knows. I liked how he played the run from the right side, and I like Matthews on the left and moving around. I would hate to see yet another season of Matthews being thrown at LTs and getting absorbed any time he tries a bull rush. Even his quick moves were getting stifled. Perry seems better suited size wise to hold up at ROLB. Adapt the "W" position to Matthews for next year, with Neal and Perry playing a lot of OLB.*










*always, assuming player(s) remain healthy (APRH)

[pbmax]

And he's been hurt, so who the hell knows. I liked how he played the run from the right side, and I like Matthews on the left and moving around. I would hate to see yet another season of Matthews being thrown at LTs and getting absorbed any time he tries a bull rush. Even his quick moves were getting stifled. Perry seems better suited size wise to hold up at ROLB. Adapt the "W" position to Matthews for next year, with Neal and Perry playing a lot of OLB.*


*always, assuming player(s) remain healthy (APRH)



I would be pretty excited at 270 and 275-280 pound Perry and Neal at OLB and Matthews inside for nickel. You could rotate 5 linebackers to pretty good effect that way*.



*always, assuming player(s) remain healthy (APRH)

[Bossman641]

I'll drive the Perry bandwagon single-handedly if I have to. He was on his way to a solid season before the injuries hit. He had 3 sacks and 2 forced fumbles through 5 games and provided strong run defense. He seems to be one of our few players who knows how to force a fumble while hitting the QB. He did it right before the half against Baltimore and last year against Luck (boooo to the call). I can't remember the fumble he forced this year against Detroit but I think it was Stafford. I think he would have been good for 8-9 sacks which is exactly what we need the second OLB to get.

[Bretsky]

I'll drive the Perry bandwagon single-handedly if I have to. He was on his way to a solid season before the injuries hit. He had 3 sacks and 2 forced fumbles through 5 games and provided strong run defense. He seems to be one of our few players who knows how to force a fumble while hitting the QB. He did it right before the half against Baltimore and last year against Luck (boooo to the call). I can't remember the fumble he forced this year against Detroit but I think it was Stafford. I think he would have been good for 8-9 sacks which is exactly what we need the second OLB to get.


And I'm kind of peeing on the wheels of this wagon

Perry is a miscast in the 3=4. One of my favorite posters...Lurker...who is also a bit fanatical on the college draft...noted along with others...several times....before the draft...that GB probably would not take Perry because his skill set did not match up with a 3-4 system. Many embraced that...until GB drafted him....and then changed their tune that we got the best pure pass rusher in the draft who had plenty of skills to fit either system. I think Joe's assessment is spot on. He hasn't been nearly as good when he's healthy and he hasn't been healthy nearly enough.

We drafted him to be a playmaker

He's disappointed. Its obviously too early for a final judgement but up to this point he's been a J.A.G.

[woodbuck27]

He doesn't fit a 3-4, Raji doesn't fit a 3-4, Jones isn't a good fit IMO, neither is Neal.

That's TT picking guys he thinks are "good football players", without giving a shit about whether they'll fit a scheme or not.

That said, given that TT has done nothing but provide Capers with misfit toys, it is up to Capers to make it work, and Capers has misused everyone in that front seven.

I think a decent DC would be putting those guys in better positions to make plays.

I think that given what we have it's a good switch up to go to a 4-3 Base 'D'. Then players that were drafted for their talent in the highest rounds will have a more logical opportunity to fit that scheme.

Switch the 3-4 for the 4-3.

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=red;767819]
honestly, i loved the pick when we made it and had high hopes for him

/QUOTE]




Well this explains it all :)

[red]

[QUOTE=red;767819]
honestly, i loved the pick when we made it and had high hopes for him

/QUOTE]






Well this explains it all :)

yup, other picks i liked include hawk and raji

picks i did not like at the time include jordy and clay

its my absolute hatred of the justin harrel pick that has me confused

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=Bretsky;767929]

yup, other picks i liked include hawk and raji

picks i did not like at the time include jordy and clay

its my absolute hatred of the justin harrel pick that has me confused


My track record has me confused as well


Didn't want Greg Jennings and at time didn't want Rodgers
Loved Hawk
Didn't want Raji; wanted Crabtree
Didn't want Sherrod; wanted Brooks Reed
Didn't want Jordy
Didn't want Harrell
Didn't know either way on Perry

[BZnDallas]

[QUOTE=red;767940]


My track record has me confused as well


Didn't want Greg Jennings and at time didn't want Rodgers
Loved Hawk
Didn't want Raji; wanted Crabtree
Didn't want Sherrod; wanted Brooks Reed
Didn't want Jordy
Didn't want Harrell
Didn't know either way on Perry

i know it wasn't on TTs watch, but:
Didn't want Ahmad Carroll; wanted Chris Gamble

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=Bretsky;767941]

i know it wasn't on TTs watch, but:
Didn't want Ahmad Carroll; wanted Chris Gamble


DITTO FOR ME THAT YEAR AS WELL
And for the Historians

I wanted Troy Vincent over Terrell Buckley
I wanted Derrick Thomas over Tony Mandarich

And I was cheering for GB to lose the last game that year so GB would pick Troy Aikmann :)

[woodbuck27]

[QUOTE=BZnDallas;767942]


DITTO FOR ME THAT YEAR AS WELL
And for the Historians

I wanted Troy Vincent over Terrell Buckley
I wanted Derrick Thomas over Tony Mandarich

And I was cheering for GB to lose the last game that year so GB would pick Troy Aikmann :)

Would Green Bay Packer History have ever changed if the Pack had the NO. 1 pick when Troy Aikman was up and picked him as their franchise QB.

[Bossman641]

And I'm kind of peeing on the wheels of this wagon

Perry is a miscast in the 3=4. One of my favorite posters...Lurker...who is also a bit fanatical on the college draft...noted along with others...several times....before the draft...that GB probably would not take Perry because his skill set did not match up with a 3-4 system. Many embraced that...until GB drafted him....and then changed their tune that we got the best pure pass rusher in the draft who had plenty of skills to fit either system. I think Joe's assessment is spot on. He hasn't been nearly as good when he's healthy and he hasn't been healthy nearly enough.

We drafted him to be a playmaker

He's disappointed. Its obviously too early for a final judgement but up to this point he's been a J.A.G.

That's fine. Still think he will be a force if he can stay healthy.

[Guiness]

i know it wasn't on TTs watch, but:
Didn't want Ahmad Carroll; wanted Chris Gamble

Ouch, that would have been nice. I was pulling for Brandon Flowers in '08, wanted the Pack to take him at 30th, but they traded the pick to the Jets. They got Jordy instead though, I'm good with that!

[smuggler]

Watching Robert Mathis destroy QBs in Indy gives me hope that Nick Perry will develop into a fine player.

Ahmad Carroll: Didn't want. I didn't want a CB in the first round that year, but I remember I liked Gamble. I don't remember who I wanted in that spot.
Aaron Rodgers: I was pretty happy that Rodgers fell to us, even if wouldn't pay off that season.
A. J. Hawk: I preferred Vernon Davis.
Justin Harrell: Didn't want him or even really have him on my radar. However, the guy I liked was Amobi Okoye so it doesn't matter much.
Jordy Nelson: I wanted Flowers. Can't complain either way, but I think Jordy is a better player right now.
B. J. Raji: I was happy he fell to us then. :S
Clay Matthews III: I wasn't so hot on the CM3 pick. I hadn't done much digging for that draft and felt we gave up too much.
Bryan Bulaga: Was and still am happy we got him instead of Okung and *especially* Maurkice Pouncey.
Derek Sherrod: I didn't want to take and OL, but I did like him better than Carimi and Costanzo. I wanted Mark Ingram to fall to us, and he nearly did.
Nick Perry: I liked this pick, but preferred Chandler Jones and Court Upshaw
Datone Jones: This was the player I wanted if we didn't spring for Eddie Lacy. Woo!

[pbmax]

That's fine. Still think he will be a force if he can stay healthy.

I'm still with you Bossman. He was having a fine year but his pass rush is more effective from the right, which, like everything else in this D, causes some player problems.

[run pMc]

Still think he will be a force if he can stay healthy.

Agree.
I admit to not being thrilled with the pick, largely because of the pre-draft quotes over his reluctance at switching to OLB. I'll be a homer and give the kid some credit for being honest with misgivings about going pro at a new position, and also for not complaining and making the switch. His youtube highlights, like everyone else's, looked pretty good though as a pass rusher. I think he can do it, especially if he learns another pass rush move or two AND can get healthy.

I think the foot injury really affected him -- couldn't push off it or change direction well, and the more snaps he got, the more the injury affected his play.
Not quite on the bandwagon, but it's too early to call him a bust. I give him another year.

He provided at least as much as Walden would have, for a lot less salary. The forced fumbles were impressive IMO...seemed like he was getting one with each sack.

If Neal walks, they still have CM3, Perry, Palmer and Mulumba...if these young guys can make a jump this offseason and stay healthy it could be a decent group.

I agree that we have some players who are misfits for the scheme (Raji, for example) and this causes problems for Capers. The experimentation (Neal switching, the OL flipflop) makes it look like M3 doesn't know what he's doing or just throwing stuff against the wall.

[bobblehead]

I'm still with you Bossman. He was having a fine year but his pass rush is more effective from the right, which, like everything else in this D, causes some player problems.

I hated him on draft day. Looked like a plodder, but I have liked him when he is healthy. I think the emergence of Andy Mulumba may make Neal expendable.

[Pugger]

Watching Robert Mathis destroy QBs in Indy gives me hope that Nick Perry will develop into a fine player.

Ahmad Carroll: Didn't want. I didn't want a CB in the first round that year, but I remember I liked Gamble. I don't remember who I wanted in that spot.
Aaron Rodgers: I was pretty happy that Rodgers fell to us, even if wouldn't pay off that season.
A. J. Hawk: I preferred Vernon Davis.
Justin Harrell: Didn't want him or even really have him on my radar. However, the guy I liked was Amobi Okoye so it doesn't matter much.
Jordy Nelson: I wanted Flowers. Can't complain either way, but I think Jordy is a better player right now.
B. J. Raji: I was happy he fell to us then. :S
Clay Matthews III: I wasn't so hot on the CM3 pick. I hadn't done much digging for that draft and felt we gave up too much.
Bryan Bulaga: Was and still am happy we got him instead of Okung and *especially* Maurkice Pouncey.
Derek Sherrod: I didn't want to take and OL, but I did like him better than Carimi and Costanzo. I wanted Mark Ingram to fall to us, and he nearly did.
Nick Perry: I liked this pick, but preferred Chandler Jones and Court Upshaw
Datone Jones: This was the player I wanted if we didn't spring for Eddie Lacy. Woo!

I was excited about Rodgers. I found it incredible he was still sitting there when our pick came but I never dreamt TT would actually take him! I didn't know who Jordy or Jennings was.

[hoosier]

I hated him on draft day. Looked like a plodder, but I have liked him when he is healthy. I think the emergence of Andy Mulumba may make Neal expendable.

When is that emergence going to take place?

[pbmax]

When is that emergence going to take place?

Two plays before his knee injury. :D

[Little Whiskey]

[QUOTE=Bretsky;767943]

Would Green Bay Packer History have ever changed if the Pack had the NO. 1 pick when Troy Aikman was up and picked him as their franchise QB.

If aikman was in gb I doubt they would have favre and maybe not Rodgers because they would have needed to find a replacement sooner. So in my mind it worked out. However at the time it would have been pretty cool to hear aikman to sharpe.

[red]

If aikman was in gb I doubt they would have favre and maybe not Rodgers because they would have needed to find a replacement sooner. So in my mind it worked out. However at the time it would have been pretty cool to hear aikman to sharpe.

would aikmen have had as good of a career if he didn't have one of the best o-lines of all time in front of him?

i would say, emmits career was greatly improved by running through holes that were 15 yards wide

[smuggler]

Emmit and Irvin were more talented than Aikman, but none would be in the HoF without that OL or without eachother. That's most true of Aikman, however.

Matt Ryan is this generation's Troy Aikman.

[pbmax]

Emmit and Irvin were more talented than Aikman, but none would be in the HoF without that OL or without eachother. That's most true of Aikman, however.

Matt Ryan is this generation's Troy Aikman.

Aikman had a gun compared to Ryan though.

[bobblehead]

When is that emergence going to take place?

I would say for a rookie FA, he made a fine backup. He was forced to play way too much, but I am comfortable with him backing up clay and perry next year. Emergence doesn't have to mean stud, in the case of an undrafted guy, serviceable would be a breakout.

[hoosier]

I would say for a rookie FA, he made a fine backup. He was forced to play way too much, but I am comfortable with him backing up clay and perry next year. Emergence doesn't have to mean stud, in the case of an undrafted guy, serviceable would be a breakout.

Sounds like you are backing away from the "make Neal expendable" idea here. Neal was actually their second most productive OLB this year, I don't think a serviceable backup would make him expendable.

[Rodgers12]

If aikman was in gb I doubt they would have favre and maybe not Rodgers because they would have needed to find a replacement sooner. So in my mind it worked out. However at the time it would have been pretty cool to hear aikman to sharpe.

Barry Sanders was available at #2.

Sanders, Favre, defense led by Reggie White, man, that's 4 Super Bowl victories, tops - 6 with a healthy Sharpe. :-D

[woodbuck27]

Barry Sanders was available at #2.

Sanders, Favre, defense led by Reggie White, man, that's 4 Super Bowl victories, tops - 6 with a healthy Sharpe. :-D

I wouldn't disagree but the HC and his company would have had to reach inside of Brett Favre and do so in terms of getting him to not try so hard in Big Games. To simply stay calm and believe ... not force it.

PACKERS FOREVER !

[bobblehead]

Sounds like you are backing away from the "make Neal expendable" idea here. Neal was actually their second most productive OLB this year, I don't think a serviceable backup would make him expendable.

Well, if you believe Neal is better than Perry, then Perry would be the expendable one. All things healthy I think Neal and Perry are a push...starters, but barely. Mulumba is a backup...solid.

Edit: Neal is the FA, which is why I said he is expendable. I see Mathews/Perry starting and Mulumba as a backup. If Perry had been the FA and Neal were under contract I would probably say Perry is expendable. I'm not backing away from anything really, I still think either Neal or Perry are expendable because they will cost too much as backups. If Mulumba couldn't even backup, then you would be forced to pay one of them. That is the entire line of my thinking, but I somehow think its less clear now than before.

[call_me_ishmael]

I can't imagine Neal getting paid much of anything. This is, what, his 4th year, and the first year where he didn't miss significant time? Plus he's one test away from a year suspension.

Beyond that, if the OLBs are the straw that stirs the drink, then they need quality back-ups. Between Clay, Neal and Perry, you're pretty much guaranteed to miss a total of 20ish games.

[bobblehead]

I can't imagine Neal getting paid much of anything. This is, what, his 4th year, and the first year where he didn't miss significant time? Plus he's one test away from a year suspension.

Beyond that, if the OLBs are the straw that stirs the drink, then they need quality back-ups. Between Clay, Neal and Perry, you're pretty much guaranteed to miss a total of 20ish games.

I have a hunch he gets a Walden like deal, and that is too much to pay a backup borderline starter.

[mraynrand]

I have a hunch he gets a Walden like deal, and that is too much to pay a backup borderline starter.

I think that would be a good deal for the Packers

[run pMc]

I can't imagine Neal getting paid much of anything. This is, what, his 4th year, and the first year where he didn't miss significant time? Plus he's one test away from a year suspension.

Beyond that, if the OLBs are the straw that stirs the drink, then they need quality back-ups. Between Clay, Neal and Perry, you're pretty much guaranteed to miss a total of 20ish games.

Some of the beat writers think Neal will get a lot of interest in FA. I don't know. I could see some where teams might him at OLB in a 3-4 and others at DL in a 4-3. Neal said he could either bulk up or drop weight depending on where he plays.
It seems like TT just drafted the guy, and he was always injured, but he played in every game this season.
I sure wouldn't offer him Walden money...but someone might. They still have CM3, Perry, Mulumba, and Palmer. One more OLB and they should be ok.

TT will make Kevin Greene's life a living hell by bringing in a half dozen UDFA's and tell him to find a couple of week 13 starters from the bunch.
That must be TT's plan to get rid of Capers -- drive him and the D coaching staff crazy by stocking the talent with misfits, projects, and UDFA's.