Seattle cheats

[red]

so what is the reason for the seahawks secondary being so good? they cheat

at least according to Mike Pereira and Kevin Gilbride

and no its not just the PED thing

they commit pass interference on almost every pass according to those two. they do it because they no the refs don't want to slow down the game by calling PI on every single pass, instead they only got called 13 times all year, less then once a game

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579310500005285822

to me this is absolutely unacceptable. break the rules so much that they stop calling it? are you kidding me?

if this is true then the nfl has a lot of explaining to to. and i think it would be great if the refs come out this weekend and throw a flag on them every single time they actually commit a foul

[denverYooper]

Dammit Red, I posted the same thing

[red]

Dammit Red, I posted the same thing

asshole

[denverYooper]

Quietly, the Seahawks have achieved a 13-3 record and home-field advantage throughout the NFC playoffs by exploiting a loophole: NFL referees are reluctant to throw endless flags for pass interference and defensive holding, even if defenses deserve them.

"They look at it and say, 'We may get called for one but not 10,'" said Mike Pereira, a former NFL vice president of officiating who is now a Fox analyst.


There is a certain brilliance to this approach: Since 2001, nine teams have committed 20 or more of these penalties (including this season's Seahawks). None of them had a losing record, and most of them won big

This style of play seems to suit House well also, as he's pretty comfortable mugging receivers. He played his best game of the year in the playoffs because he was allowed to get away with a lot of PI. Was he playing that way earlier in the year?

[denverYooper]

asshole

slut

[denverYooper]

That would be awesome if the refs started out the game flagging Seattle's DBs, and be dammed if it slowed the game down.

[pbmax]

If this was basketball, there would be dueling press conferences with coaches complaining about these (non) calls.

Phil Jackson, isn't doing anything, Payton should give him a call.

[Bretsky]

so what is the reason for the seahawks secondary being so good? they cheat

at least according to Mike Pereira and Kevin Gilbride

and no its not just the PED thing

they commit pass interference on almost every pass according to those two. they do it because they no the refs don't want to slow down the game by calling PI on every single pass, instead they only got called 13 times all year, less then once a game

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579310500005285822

to me this is absolutely unacceptable. break the rules so much that they stop calling it? are you kidding me?

if this is true then the nfl has a lot of explaining to to. and i think it would be great if the refs come out this weekend and throw a flag on them every single time they actually commit a foul

Go back and look at tape of Charles Woodson
That is how he's survived so long in the NFL

[pbmax]

Go back and look at tape of Charles Woodson
That is how he's survived so long in the NFL

When its Woodson, that is veteran savvy. When its an entire team, that is sociopath Pete Carroll.

[red]

Go back and look at tape of Charles Woodson
That is how he's survived so long in the NFL

woodson did plenty of pushing and grabbing, seattle is flat out bear hugging guys and not getting called

[KYPack]

Each individual game now has it's own set of rules. How the refs are gonna call PI, holding, & other grabby calls determines the outcome of every game. It varies so much, there is absolutely no consistency.

Right now, I see no way the Seahawks don't win the SB.

That's why I'm rooting for the Saints today!

[MadScientist]

When its Woodson, that is veteran savvy. When its an entire team, that is sociopath Pete Carroll.

Actually that was the Packer's MO when they had Woodson and Harris in press coverage. Other teams and announcers said the same thing - that the Packers were holding and interfering on every pass. It worked and the calls didn't happen. On the other hand, Ahmad Carroll got called all the time. So either you have to have a reputation as a good corner, or just be good in the way you hold to not get called every time.

[mraynrand]

There are two reasons why this happens;
1) If you interfere on every play, they have to decide to call everything. Especially in playoff games, they want to let the players play, so they let it go - and they don't want the game to bog down.
2) the d-backs can interfere effectively. Much like the Patriots of the last decade, these guys know how to interfere and not get burned. It is an art. Some d-backs would get get tossed aside. Seattle d-backs are big enough to withstand the bigger NFL receivers (Think Marshall, Jeffrey, Megatron).

General principle for NFL rules: learn them well, and then learn how to break them without getting caught.

[pbmax]

Actually that was the Packer's MO when they had Woodson and Harris in press coverage. Other teams and announcers said the same thing - that the Packers were holding and interfering on every pass. It worked and the calls didn't happen. On the other hand, Ahmad Carroll got called all the time. So either you have to have a reputation as a good corner, or just be good in the way you hold to not get called every time.

But each was different from the other. When young Tramon tried Al's stuff, he had a penalty filled year.

Al would bang the guy right away and continue to fight sometimes past 5 yards. He got calls for holding.

Woodson was elbowing, clutching, and sending elbows into guys (not to hurt but to slow and redirect them while help him recover) after the pattern started. He got more PI than Al I would bet.

I think that helps. Seahawk efforts would be wiped out with one point of emphasis this offseason.

[pbmax]

General principle for NFL rules: learn them well, and then learn how to break them without getting caught.

I call it the NASCAR Crew Chief effect. Everyone's doing something so you better be as well. Someday it will be revealed what Jimmy Johnson is doing with Chad Knaus' help.

[Guiness]

This style of play seems to suit House well also, as he's pretty comfortable mugging receivers. He played his best game of the year in the playoffs because he was allowed to get away with a lot of PI. Was he playing that way earlier in the year?

I was going to bring that up...House really abused the WRs and was for the most part, effective during the SF game. Troy and Buck mentioned it a few times.

Why is it sometimes called and other times not? Interesting that pbmax mentioned the NBA, because I think there's a certain parallel there - the stars get the beneficial calls and are allowed the 'continuation', in DB terms that means being allowed to continue contact after 5 yards. How do you become a star in the first place? Be effective. Carrol got called all the time because he'd interfere with the WR then they'd catch a TD pass anyways! Woodson would elbow a guy, who'd change direction and he'd cut off the route and make the INT.

[pbmax]

NFL reffing crews have a wide variability when it comes to making certain calls.

[gbgary]

beautifully timed article. hope it gets results.

[Striker]

The Seahawks being cheap shots/borderline cheaters? Never!

Who remembers this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljk3Ak7UlwU

[bobblehead]

so what is the reason for the seahawks secondary being so good? they cheat

at least according to Mike Pereira and Kevin Gilbride

and no its not just the PED thing

they commit pass interference on almost every pass according to those two. they do it because they no the refs don't want to slow down the game by calling PI on every single pass, instead they only got called 13 times all year, less then once a game

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579310500005285822

to me this is absolutely unacceptable. break the rules so much that they stop calling it? are you kidding me?

if this is true then the nfl has a lot of explaining to to. and i think it would be great if the refs come out this weekend and throw a flag on them every single time they actually commit a foul

Reputation Red. A couple years ago (2010) we finally got over the reputation for committing pass interference. Before that we got called for looking at receivers the wrong way. These "hard nosed" defenses are extremely physical. They PI all the time, they hold and pull. Why do you think that in a game that the officials were too cold to call PI or nearly anything subjective our D suddenly looked much better. I was just shocked that our D figured it out and started playing that way.

[bobblehead]

If this was basketball, there would be dueling press conferences with coaches complaining about these (non) calls.

Phil Jackson, isn't doing anything, Payton should give him a call.

PS..this is why I tend to say that running and physical D win championships...because the refs make it so.

[bobblehead]

Each individual game now has it's own set of rules. How the refs are gonna call PI, holding, & other grabby calls determines the outcome of every game. It varies so much, there is absolutely no consistency.

Right now, I see no way the Seahawks don't win the SB.

That's why I'm rooting for the Saints today!

But right when you think that, the refs start calling PI. All of a sudden the saints are rolling and seattle is frustrated that what they did all year long isn't allowed. Next thing you know, game over for the seachickens.

[denverYooper]

Reputation Red. A couple years ago (2010) we finally got over the reputation for committing pass interference. Before that we got called for looking at receivers the wrong way. These "hard nosed" defenses are extremely physical. They PI all the time, they hold and pull. Why do you think that in a game that the officials were too cold to call PI or nearly anything subjective our D suddenly looked much better. I was just shocked that our D figured it out and started playing that way.

I'm too busy with kids to look up stats atm, but I feel like the dominant Steelers defenses were always near the top in penalties committed.

[Brandon494]

Stop being haters and recognize a great defense, ya'll were not complaining when Woodson and Al Harris were playing the same way.

[gbgary]

you know...if the refs aren't going to call it then it's the refs that are cheating.


Stop being haters and recognize a great defense, ya'll were not complaining when Woodson and Al Harris were playing the same way.
they got called for pi all the time.

sea does have a great d but the rules are the rules.

[Brandon494]

you know...if the refs aren't going to call it then it's the refs that are cheating.


they got called for pi all the time.

sea does have a great d but the rules are the rules.

I understand rules are the rules but they aren't breaking them. They are a great defense because they are loaded with talent, not because they cheat. What plays did the cheat in the 1st half of shutting out the Saints and holding Brees to under 40 yards passing? They have physical corners, great safety play, and great pass rushers....but yea they are cheaters. :roll:

[pbmax]

Stop being haters and recognize a great defense, ya'll were not complaining when Woodson and Al Harris were playing the same way.

Nope. Holding a grudge until that Interceptouchdown is avenged or Pete has to sit out for NCAA sanctions.

[Brandon494]

Nope. Holding a grudge until that Interceptouchdown is avenged or Pete has to sit out for NCAA sanctions.

Haha maybe I'm bias because their have two starters from my hometown.

[Zool]

The vid posted by Striker is what they've been doing the last couple years. I hope Pete Carroll dies in a fire.

[woodbuck27]

slut

Not sluts ... cheaters.

Sluts are like a PRV... a pressure relief valve. They can be reset.

Cheaters are like a forest fire. Lots of lost life and severe damage. Decades to recover.

[pbmax]

The vid posted by Striker is what they've been doing the last couple years. I hope Pete Carroll dies in a fire.

Knowing Carroll, it will be while running back into the building to save a five-star recruit's dog.

[gbgary]

I understand rules are the rules but they aren't breaking them. They are a greatu defense because they are loaded with talent, not because they cheat. What plays did the cheat in the 1st half of shutting out the Saints and holding Brees to under 40 yards passing? They have physical corners, great safety play, and great pass rushers....but yea they are cheaters. :roll:
they do break rules. the d in particular, and dbs specifically, clutch, grab, hold, all the time. they have a couple of cheap shot artists too. yesterday? didn't watch the game. I'm not disagreeing that their d is good just saying they don't have to play the way they are. but...if the refs aren't going to enforce the rules then the opposition has no chance.

[Bretsky]

Calling a spade a spade

Seattle has a great defense; I'd take them over any squad in the NFL

[call_me_ishmael]

This is how I would play, too. The rules of holding, dirty play, etc are stretched every single play. If you can't beat 'em, join em.

[woodbuck27]

Reputation Red. A couple years ago (2010) we finally got over the reputation for committing pass interference. Before that we got called for looking at receivers the wrong way. These "hard nosed" defenses are extremely physical. They PI all the time, they hold and pull. Why do you think that in a game that the officials were too cold to call PI or nearly anything subjective our D suddenly looked much better. I was just shocked that our D figured it out and started playing that way.

Cold Zebra's don't call PI's.

Noted.

[Little Whiskey]

I call it the NASCAR Crew Chief effect. Everyone's doing something so you better be as well. Someday it will be revealed what Jimmy Johnson is doing with Chad Knaus' help.

Wow. A NASCAR reference! "If you ain't cheatin you ain't trying".

[pbmax]

Wow. A NASCAR reference! "If you ain't cheatin you ain't trying".

Get a lot (OK, reasonable) amount of coverage locally for Kenseth and that keeps me a bit current.

As a kid, I liked to watch races on weekends. Somewhere I have a Johnny Rutherford autograph.

But back to football, points of emphasis can be used to combat a new technique that crosses the line. Problem lately has been with the number of changes (new catch rules, crown of helmet, defenseless receivers) it seems many other things have fallen by the wayside.

[gbgary]

as much as i dislike sea i'm going to be pulling for them over sf. hairball's in-game antics and post-game comments (about GBP in particular) have me disliking that team over anyone else right now...even det, chi, and min.

[digitaldean]

so what is the reason for the seahawks secondary being so good? they cheat

at least according to Mike Pereira and Kevin Gilbride

and no its not just the PED thing



they commit pass interference on almost every pass according to those two. they do it because they no the refs don't want to slow down the game by calling PI on every single pass, instead they only got called 13 times all year, less then once a game

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579310500005285822

to me this is absolutely unacceptable. break the rules so much that they stop calling it? are you kidding me?

if this is true then the nfl has a lot of explaining to to. and i think it would be great if the refs come out this weekend and throw a flag on them every single time they actually commit a foul

Does make sense, Red. When we played them last in Seattle, Chancellor and Sherman were grabbing, PUNCHING and doing all sorts of crap with NOTHING getting called. Yes, we had several games where we were doing our share (Niners game and Chicago game), but that was mild compared to the mugging Jones and Nelson got in that game.

The PI calls are still the most mistakenly called. Hasn't changed much since the days of Michael "velcro hands" Irvin and his constant push offs on DBs. He could've been called on every play, but the refs almost never called it.

[digitaldean]

as much as i dislike sea i'm going to be pulling for them over sf. hairball's in-game antics and post-game comments (about GBP in particular) have me disliking that team over anyone else right now...even det, chi, and min.

Harbone can get speared by a Seattle DB for all I care. I am avoiding watching that game. The between play jawjacking and antics are going to be worse than the Carolina-SF game.

I'll grudgingly cheer for SEA only because I can't stand Harbaugh.

[Striker]

Harbone can get speared by a Seattle DB for all I care. I am avoiding watching that game. The between play jawjacking and antics are going to be worse than the Carolina-SF game.

I'll grudgingly cheer for SEA only because I can't stand Harbaugh.


I'll watch just to see one of those two groups of jackasses go home dejected.

And then we have to hope the AFC holds up in the Super Bowl.

[woodbuck27]

Knowing Carroll, it will be while running back into the building to save a five-star recruit's dog.

Naw ...the dog will save him from himself:

http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2013/11/man-and-his-dog-save-each-other-from-fire/

[Brandon494]

Which play did they cheat against the Broncos? Hopefully you clowns stop hating and recognize the talent they have.

[pbmax]

Which play did they cheat against the Broncos? Hopefully you clowns stop hating and recognize the talent they have.

Its hard to see PEDs from the All 22 but they were doing some nice clutch and grabbing!

[Brandon494]

Its hard to see PEDs from the All 22 but they were doing some nice clutch and grabbing!

You mean playing defense? I think Packers fans have forgotten how a great defense plays.

[mraynrand]

You mean playing defense? I think Packers fans have forgotten how a great defense plays.


You really think so? After four straight losses to the 49ers? Hardly. Seattle at SF and the playoff game were two of the greatest football games in the past year. Those three teams were the best in football. Next year's NFC playoffs should be epic.

[bobblehead]

Gonna have to change my sig.

[3irty1]

Calling what they are doing "cheating" is a pretty liberal use of the word. Seattle's secondary might extend past the limits of the written rules but clearly not past the human elements policing their games. Seattle isn't doing anything that 31 other teams couldn't also do if they didn't have the personnel to do it effectively. Is Jordy a cheater for all the pushoffs he gets away with? Is every NFL offensive lineman a cheater for holding on every play? In the NFL this is just how good players play.

[denverYooper]

You really think so? After four straight losses to the 49ers? Hardly. Seattle at SF and the playoff game were two of the greatest football games in the past year. Those three teams were the best in football. Next year's NFC playoffs should be epic.

People don't want to hear that the Packers actually have a pretty good team.

[Bossman641]

Between Carroll and USC, their suspensions, the Fail Mary and Tate's general douche-ness, and their fans thinking they created the 12th man (Aggies) there isn't a whole lot up in Seattle I respect or admire.

[Zool]

Which play did they cheat against the Broncos? Hopefully you clowns stop hating and recognize the talent they have.

Take a look at the late hit on the kick-off that went through the endzone. Is that great football play as well because it's right in their wheel house for play style. Or is it indicative of the cheap shot style they play? Maybe Packer DBs should just go for the knees of every receiver on every play. As long as they do it within 5 yards, it's just good tough football.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Jealously anyone? Anyone who thinks they don't have the most talented defense in the NFL is crazy. They dominated Denver yesterday, they didn't cheat. Al Harris and Charles Woodson used to grab on most plays, did they cheat to? Settle plays organized, physical, punch you in the month defense. I hate them because they are disrespectful and talk a lot of trash, but they're clearly the best in the NFL.

[pbmax]

Yes, I am jealous. I was also mostly joking about the cheating charge. I do think they push the envelope in the defensive backfield the way the Patriots used to. Unlike the Patriots, who had to contend with the Colts who could get the League's attention, the Seahawks are being hounded by the 49ers. Given the 49er team makeup and style, they are not going to the League to ask for a point of emphasis.

It will be interesting to see of any of this comes up in the offseason. They were grabbing a lot while in man coverage and using that grab to help redirect themselves when receivers made breaks.

Tramon Williams once collected about 8 PIs in one season for an arm bar. Officiating goes in cycles, we'll see what happens next year.

Maybe Bruce Arians and Larry Fitzgerald will make a stink.

[Guiness]

Granted I paid less attention to detail than I generally do yesterday, but I really did not see a whole lot of interfering by the Seattle DBs. Actually, the most blatant uncalled interference I saw was an OPI against Sherman.

The cheap shot by a Seattle STer on the kick off was just that - a cheap shot, and bush league. Penalty assessed, *shrug*.


Between Carroll and USC, their suspensions, the Fail Mary and Tate's general douche-ness, and their fans thinking they created the 12th man (Aggies) there isn't a whole lot up in Seattle I respect or admire.

I hear ya, but a lot of that didn't directly impact the Packers. I have a lot more trouble getting over the way Denver circumvented the salary cap in getting their two SBs, probably because the Packers were there. I think as long as Elway is in Denver I'll always cheer against them whoever they are playing.

[mraynrand]

Jealously anyone? Anyone who thinks they don't have the most talented defense in the NFL is crazy. They dominated Denver yesterday, they didn't cheat. Al Harris and Charles Woodson used to grab on most plays, did they cheat to? Settle plays organized, physical, punch you in the month defense. I hate them because they are disrespectful and talk a lot of trash, but they're clearly the best in the NFL.

Best defense? Sure. But as a team, both the 49ers and Packers are right there. As with every SB winner, it will be interesting to see how they handle success. The last great SB winning defenses didn't fare so well (Ravens 2000, Bucs 2002, Giants 2007 and 2011)

[mraynrand]

Granted I paid less attention to detail than I generally do yesterday, but I really did not see a whole lot of interfering by the Seattle DBs.

I agree. I saw a Denver team that was very worried about getting hit. I think they lost before the game even started.

[Brandon494]

Take a look at the late hit on the kick-off that went through the endzone. Is that great football play as well because it's right in their wheel house for play style. Or is it indicative of the cheap shot style they play? Maybe Packer DBs should just go for the knees of every receiver on every play. As long as they do it within 5 yards, it's just good tough football.

Oh you mean when their 5th string receiver barely bumped into the Broncos player?

BTW if you watched the Super Bowl the Hawks players wrap up on every tackle then the second tackler comes with the blowing hit. At this point anyone still hating on the Seahawks is just sour grapes.

[KYPack]

We all have a boner for the Hawks from last years hosing in Seattle.

That said, man they jumped the shit out of Denver's shallow crossing routes.

The boys in orange were intimidated, too.

[denverYooper]

We all have a boner for the Hawks from last years hosing in Seattle.

That said, man they jumped the shit out of Denver's shallow crossing routes.

The boys in orange were intimidated, too.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/03/richard-sherman-super-bowl-48-seattle-seahawks/

Sherman said they'd figured out Denver's hand signals in the first half:


“All we did was play situational football,” Sherman says. “We knew what route concepts they liked on different downs, so we jumped all the routes. Then we figured out the hand signals for a few of the route audibles in the first half.”

He demonstrates the signs Manning used for various routes, and says he and his teammates were calling out plays throughout the game and getting them right. “Me, Earl [Thomas], Kam [Chancellor]… we’re not just three All-Pro players. We’re three All-Pro minds,” Sherman says. “Now, if Peyton had thrown in some double moves, if he had gone out of character, we could’ve been exposed.”

[Bossman641]

I don't understand some of the comments here. I don't see anyone not giving Seattle credit. They dominated yesterday. That doesn't mean we need to admire the way they did it...it's already been well-documented why some don't like them.

Anyways, back to the game. Manning couldn't get the ball down the field. It was all drags and shallow crosses and Seattle was all over those routes.


Denver simply couldn’t do anything downfield; Manning threw 10 “deep” passes,6 and on those throws, he went 2-for-10 for 42 yards with an interception, a fumble (by Thomas after a completion), and a 20-yard defensive pass interference penalty.

Deep being 15+ past the LOS

http://grantland.com/features/seattles-best/

[KYPack]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/03/richard-sherman-super-bowl-48-seattle-seahawks/

Sherman said they'd figured out Denver's hand signals in the first half:

Manning never had the time to complete double move routes. Sherman's probably trying to make him feel worse. RS also commented on Manning being classy post game and inquiring as to his (Sherman's) injury .

Seattle ran man cover and some 3 lurk, but using Thomas as the lurker in cover 3. It was well disguised & I don't know if I could tell which was which, even in the replay.

Neither could Peyton Manning.

[Guiness]

Manning never had the time to complete double move routes. Sherman's probably trying to make him feel worse. RS also commented on Manning being classy post game and inquiring as to his (Sherman's) injury .

Seattle ran man cover and some 3 lurk, but using Thomas as the lurker in cover 3. It was well disguised & I don't know if I could tell which was which, even in the replay.

Neither could Peyton Manning.

Don't know what to make of Manning's completion record - who would've thought he'd set that while getting rolled?

[Zool]

Oh you mean when their 5th string receiver barely bumped into the Broncos player?

BTW if you watched the Super Bowl the Hawks players wrap up on every tackle then the second tackler comes with the blowing hit. At this point anyone still hating on the Seahawks is just sour grapes.

Anyone claiming that people don't give their D respect for their talent is looking to argue a moot point. Everyone knows the talent they have, but their tactics are well known by everyone. Ignoring them doesn't make you smarter, just makes it look like you want to argue for the sake of arguing. They are super talented, but their bully style of play is shitty IMO. Watch the fail mary game again. Watch Jennings 35 yards away from the play get leveled while running a 9. Argue how that's OK and good sound defensive football. It's a product of their coaching. Their coach is who needs to die in a fire.

[pbmax]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/03/richard-sherman-super-bowl-48-seattle-seahawks/

Sherman said they'd figured out Denver's hand signals in the first half:

Now we have at least a partial answer to why McCarthy wanted to go deep.

[smuggler]

Whatever. We play them next season, since we both won our respective divisions. I don't really have an opinion on their strategy of taking advantage of gunshy refs. Shouldn't every team be trying to do that? Oh, they are, the Seahawks are just *better* at it.

[pbmax]

Manning never had the time to complete double move routes. Sherman's probably trying to make him feel worse. RS also commented on Manning being classy post game and inquiring as to his (Sherman's) injury .

Seattle ran man cover and some 3 lurk, but using Thomas as the lurker in cover 3. It was well disguised & I don't know if I could tell which was which, even in the replay.

Neither could Peyton Manning.

Smart Football said they ran some Cover 2 early rather than the single-high Cover 1 that had predominated Seattle's D call for most of their season. But there was some debate about whether it was a disguise for split coverage or actually Cover 1 as Kam kept running up and jumping routes. Brown thought it was legit Cover 2 with Kam responsible for force.

[mraynrand]

Ignoring them doesn't make you smarter, just makes it look like you want to argue for the sake of arguing.

you could lock the thread right after his manifesto

[packrulz]

SeaHags didn't cheat, the Broncos just sucked ass!