Pete Carroll's Hybrid 4-3 Under

[denverYooper]

Chris Brown wrote up an article on Pete Carroll's failure, success, and the hybrid 4-3 under that he runs up in Seattle. He talks a bit about scheme/fit with some of Seattle's odd player morphs.

http://grantland.com/features/whos-laughing-now/

[pbmax]

This is a great article and it basically answers about every question you might have about a 4-3 under and over, one and two gapping and Carroll's approach. Its really good.

It also covers some of the things Capers is doing with the Packers (hybrid one and two gaps with Raji two gapping) but with far less success. You get a Clay Matthews mention to boot.

After reading it, I think it confirms Raji's being asked to 2 gap occasionally this year and his failure to make plays while doing so. He can't be retained at a high number for that kind of production. But its also may be an indictment of the LBs, who with 2 gapping Raji and Pickett in front of them cannot get free to make tackles.

[pbmax]

Sherman’s skills allow Carroll to put his spin on old, conservative Cover Three: While this is zone coverage, Seattle’s cornerbacks play tight press coverage on the outside wide receivers as long as a receiver’s initial steps are straight downfield. Notice the coverage drops from the underneath defenders in the GIF below: This is a zone defense all the way, except for those press corners.

You are going to read this and start thinking its the players because I think I have seen the Packers run this coverage in single-safety as well.


http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/4-3-under-flex-cover-3.gif

[KYPack]

If you note that video, this defense is a 4-3 over. The NT plays the center nose up, IOW over the center. The coverage is called sky lurk. that's a cover 3 with 3 guys having the deep coverage. Two safeties and a corner deep is called sky (2 corners and a safety is called cloud) The LB's range deep, that underneath lb help is the lurk.

So the defense's play caller would call something like 4-3 over sky lurk.

This is the defense has evolved out of the cover two. cover 2 gets beat down the middle a lot, so DC's have gone to this D a lot. PB is right, GB plays this one with one safety back.

The big wrinkle that Seattle does from time to time is a cover 3 cloud style. They will play both corners up in a press look. At the snap, Sherman and the other corner retreat deep, putting the Hawks in a deep thirds zone look. I saw a game a couple weeks ago in which the announce informed me that Seattle was such a great defense because the presence of Sherman and the other DB's allowed them to constantly play man to man defense. I guess they didn't get into cover 3's at the announcer's school this goof attended.

[call_me_ishmael]

I was struck by how short the Seattle LBs are. Two are 6', and then the fast kid from WVU is 6'3". Several backups are 6' as well. Shorties.

What about SF and their backers? Is speed preferable to height and size these days?

[smuggler]

The QB farted. Had his RB open in the flat for a gain of about 10, more if he can win the 1-on-1 against the safety in that zone. Eli throws a jump ball instead. He's known for his luck, but a little skill would have gone a long way on that play.

[Fritz]

The QB farted. Had his RB open in the flat for a gain of about 10, more if he can win the 1-on-1 against the safety in that zone. Eli throws a jump ball instead. He's known for his luck, but a little skill would have gone a long way on that play.


This is what I'm seeing. Had Eli looked left, then dumped off to his RB, he had a wide open middle for a big gain - one of the criticisms of the Packers' defense.

KY said there is a linebacker "lurking" underneath - but I don't see that. Both inside linebackers drop back deep, leaving the underneath middle wide open.

I must be missing something.

[KYPack]

This is what I'm seeing. Had Eli looked left, then dumped off to his RB, he had a wide open middle for a big gain - one of the criticisms of the Packers' defense.

KY said there is a linebacker "lurking" underneath - but I don't see that. Both inside linebackers drop back deep, leaving the underneath middle wide open.

I must be missing something.

If you read my post, bub, I said lurk. That's a kind of lb coverage. It's really designed to stop backside digs. Both lb's DO drop deep, exposing the short middle. And another RB rainbowed right in that short middle & is wide open on a quick. Every zone coverage has a hole, you are just trying to get max coverage and hope your pass rush disrupts the play before damage is done to you by the zones getting too big to cover or the holes getting exposed.

You and Smuggler are right, Eli fucked up. There seems to be some wash from the pass rush in front of him, it would have been tough to deliver the quick checkdowns. It looks like he definitely took the wrong option. Sea played a zone cleverly designed to look like a man cover.

[pbmax]

Yeah, I wonder if that was a disguised Cover 3 (both safeties are deep at the start) but the left S comes up on his left and he and the ILB would have had the RB in that short zone. Bears ran a lot of that to confuse Rodgers with Lovie.

Is the area that left safety is running to cover called the hook or curl zone? Because it almost looks like his first concern is a short route broken off by that WR, then his eyes go elsewhere.

Eli reads man coverage outside, and he is going there after holding the safety. But Cruz I think, never breaks free.

The Packers have forced those short throws this year but both the ILBs and Safeties have not tackled well running forward on that back or TE. If it was 2nd and 3rd down a 8 or 9, a short throw is what you want if you can tackle.

[run pMc]

This is what I'm seeing. Had Eli looked left, then dumped off to his RB, he had a wide open middle for a big gain - one of the criticisms of the Packers' defense.

KY said there is a linebacker "lurking" underneath - but I don't see that. Both inside linebackers drop back deep, leaving the underneath middle wide open.

I must be missing something.

I think he's referring to #55, lurking across the NFL logo.

[mraynrand]

The QB farted. Had his RB open in the flat for a gain of about 10, more if he can win the 1-on-1 against the safety in that zone. Eli throws a jump ball instead. He's known for his luck, but a little skill would have gone a long way on that play.

http://packergeeks.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/favres-pick.jpg

[KYPack]

I think he's referring to #55, lurking across the NFL logo.

Right.

Lurk doesn't mean lurking around, like in a schoolyard. Lurk is deep to middle cover to stop the dig routes, usually by a lb altho some DC's use a safety in the lurk function. This defense has become pretty popular and is used quite a lot around the league. There is another deal used in this coverage. A few years ago, many teams frequently used a double A gap blitz and for awhile it was working well. Offenses picked up on this tactic and started picking it up and burning that blitz. Since then, most DC's took a different tactic. They would show the Double A blitz and drop the ILB's in coverage. That way, they got the QB hurried and still had coverage. In this clip, both backers press the A gap and drop to their lurk coverage.

This press the A gap and cover is a favorite tactic of Mike Zimmer. We will see it next season when we play Minny.

[mraynrand]

This press the A gap and cover is a favorite tactic of Mike Zimmer. We will see it next season when we play Minny.

If memory serves, the Packers started diagnosing this in the second half at Cincinnati this year and gouging the defense for run yardage, even with Franklin in there.

[KYPack]

If memory serves, the Packers started diagnosing this in the second half at Cincinnati this year and gouging the defense for run yardage, even with Franklin in there.

I'm pretty sure you're right. I was there and that game is a fog in my mind espec the second half.

A bitterly disappointing game.

[woodbuck27]

If you note that video, this defense is a 4-3 over. The NT plays the center nose up, IOW over the center. The coverage is called sky lurk. that's a cover 3 with 3 guys having the deep coverage. Two safeties and a corner deep is called sky (2 corners and a safety is called cloud) The LB's range deep, that underneath lb help is the lurk.

So the defense's play caller would call something like 4-3 over sky lurk.

This is the defense has evolved out of the cover two. cover 2 gets beat down the middle a lot, so DC's have gone to this D a lot. PB is right, GB plays this one with one safety back.

The big wrinkle that Seattle does from time to time is a cover 3 cloud style. They will play both corners up in a press look. At the snap, Sherman and the other corner retreat deep, putting the Hawks in a deep thirds zone look. I saw a game a couple weeks ago in which the announce informed me that Seattle was such a great defense because the presence of Sherman and the other DB's allowed them to constantly play man to man defense. I guess they didn't get into cover 3's at the announcer's school this goof attended.

Here's more to support KY's post:

Understanding " the Cover 3 'Zone'... " Defensive Scheme :

http://0.tqn.com/d/create/1/G/1/H/2/-/cover3.jpg

Basic Zones in a Cover 3 Defensive Scheme.

http://football.about.com/od/howtoplaycoach/a/Cover_3_Zone_Defense.htm

Versus:

the Optional - Cover 2 'Zone' ..." Defensive Scheme:

http://0.tqn.com/d/create/1/G/2/H/2/-/cover2.jpg

Basic Zones in a Cover 2 Defensive Scheme

http://football.about.com/od/howtoplaycoach/a/Cover_2_Zone_Defense.htm

By: Jobe Lewis

[mraynrand]

Let's move back to the Cover 3, gentlemen:

http://www.kshs.org/cool3/graphics/ftballgameclose.jpg

[mraynrand]

^^^^ you know it's a bad defense when you're losing 90-1 - in the first quarter, no less.

[QBME]

Let's move back to the Cover 3, gentlemen:

http://www.kshs.org/cool3/graphics/ftballgameclose.jpg

The yellow team only has 10 "players" on the "field"...

[pbmax]

The yellow team only has 10 "players" on the "field"...

That's Buddy Ryan's Hidden Defenseman alignment.

[mraynrand]

That's Buddy Ryan's Hidden Defenseman alignment.

UNSOUND!!

[pbmax]

UNSOUND!!

Probably also politically incorrect. Knowing Buddy, he called it his Drunk Irishman Has Fallen Down Defense.

[mraynrand]

Probably also politically incorrect. Knowing Buddy, he called it his Drunk Irishman Has Fallen Down Defense.

Magically delicious!

http://www.wayneschulz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sick-lucky-charms-t-shirt.jpg