2014 East-West Shrine Game Prospect Report

[woodbuck27]

2014 East-West Shrine Game Sat. Jan. 18,2014 HOME PAGE:

http://www.shrinegame.com/


http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/1/16/5315446/east-west-shrine-game-prospect-report

2014 East-West Shrine Game Prospect Report

By Trevor Woods  @Woods49ers on Jan 16 2014, 11:12 AM

[woodbuck27]

SEE Mystery Man LBer Max Bullough of Michigan State and what in heck happened to this fella?

He needs support. Is there nobody to set that fella on a proper course?

20lbs overweight &^%#(@#?*!!&%$ What's that about?

His draft stock might bump him down to Rd. 5-7 as a result of all the mystery that he's insisting on.

His teammates love their Captain but wow! :?:

[woodbuck27]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1922241-east-west-shrine-game-2014-observations-from-mondays-practice

East-West Shrine Game 2014: Observations from Monday's Practice

By Michael Schottey ... (NFL National Lead Writer) on January 13, 2014

[woodbuck27]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/1/14/5307610/east-west-shrine-game-day-1-roundup

East-West Shrine Game Day 1 roundup

By Dan Kadar  @MockingTheDraft on Jan 14 2014, 10:40 AM

[woodbuck27]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/1/15/5310438/east-west-shrine-game-day-2-roundup

East-West Shrine Game Day 2 roundup

By: Dan Kadar  @MockingTheDraft on Jan 15 2014, 8:00 AM

[woodbuck27]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/1/16/5315114/east-west-shrine-game-day-3-roundup

East-West Shrine Game Day 3 roundup

By Dan Kadar  @MockingTheDraft on Jan 16 2014, 10:09a

[Fritz]

McGinn's whole "smallnsoft" campaign from early in the season has given way to teh "bignslow" campaign after the Packers lost to SF again. Funny how McGinn can call for the team to get "tough" for about six months in the offseason, and now for the next six months we'll hear about how the Packers' linebackers and defenders are too slow.

So draft speedy dudes!

[run pMc]

McGinn's whole "smallnsoft" campaign from early in the season has given way to teh "bignslow" campaign after the Packers lost to SF again. Funny how McGinn can call for the team to get "tough" for about six months in the offseason, and now for the next six months we'll hear about how the Packers' linebackers and defenders are too slow.

So draft speedy dudes!

I think they need more speed at ILB. Jones was hurt so maybe that was part of it, but I don't think either Hawk/Jones are very speedy. Neither is a great sideline-to-sideline player IMO.

McGinn's self-contradictions and waffling really annoys me. He's all over the place and gone off the map of reality. Players who are big, tough, fast, great football IQ, etc. tend to be top10 or top15 players...GB hasn't been in that draft position too often in the last 10 years.

[pbmax]

I think they need more speed at ILB. Jones was hurt so maybe that was part of it, but I don't think either Hawk/Jones are very speedy. Neither is a great sideline-to-sideline player IMO.

McGinn's self-contradictions and waffling really annoys me. He's all over the place and gone off the map of reality. Players who are big, tough, fast, great football IQ, etc. tend to be top10 or top15 players...GB hasn't been in that draft position too often in the last 10 years.

Hard to say how it translates on the field but Hawk's combine numbers were extraordinary. Only Matthews is quicker at that size.

He generally can stay with speedy TEs but doesn't make a lot of plays on the ball and gets zero help from his safety over the top.

I think I posted speed elsewhere is a concern more than size, and I stick by that. That's one reason I was rooting hard for Jones but he was a tire fire on 1st and 2nd down again. The injury did not help.

[pbmax]

McGinn's whole "smallnsoft" campaign from early in the season has given way to teh "bignslow" campaign after the Packers lost to SF again. Funny how McGinn can call for the team to get "tough" for about six months in the offseason, and now for the next six months we'll hear about how the Packers' linebackers and defenders are too slow.

So draft speedy dudes!

bmcginn@journalsentinel.com

[pbmax]

Tweet from yesterday.

Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks 17h
Ghost town at East-West all-star practices today. Of course, Ted Thompson is still here- 1 of the reasons he's so respected by NFL scouts

[mraynrand]

Hard to say how it translates on the field but Hawk's combine numbers were extraordinary.

No it's not hard. For some guys, they can play. For others, they cannot. Hawk is closer to the latter. He just doesn't make any great plays. Solid, but entirely unspectacular. Would have been a great round 3 or lower pick (great value!), but is a disaster as a #5 overall pick where you need an all-pro difference maker. When you suck bad enough to get one of those picks, you have to make them count. Recent Packers Bad years (plus a trade) gave them the following great top 20 picks: Reynolds, Harrell, Hawk, Raji. Blechhh.

[red]

No it's not hard. For some guys, they can play. For others, they cannot. Hawk is closer to the latter. He just doesn't make any great plays. Solid, but entirely unspectacular. Would have been a great round 3 or lower pick (great value!), but is a disaster as a #5 overall pick where you need an all-pro difference maker. When you suck bad enough to get one of those picks, you have to make them count. Recent Packers Bad years (plus a trade) gave them the following great top 20 picks: Reynolds, Harrell, Hawk, Raji. Blechhh.

yet in college, against top talent no less, hawk was a fast dominate playmaker

in his 4 year career he had over 400 tackles, 15.5 sacks, 41 tackles behind the LOS, forced 3 funbles, had a blocked punt that he recovered for a TD, had 7 int's and 13 defended passes

team mvp twice, lombardi award winner

the guy had playmaking talent. it either didn't translate to the nfl, or the team cut off his balls and turned him into a vanilla player.

when clay was out earlier in the year, the team put hawk in a different role, and he looked a lot like the same player he was in college. then clay came back, and he went back to the vanilla ILB

5.5 million is a lot to pay a vanilla or average player, but if thats how the team wants him to play, and if they want to pay him that much for that role, then i guess thats what they want

[red]

heres a draft profile of hawk coming out of college


Negatives:

The biggest knock on Hawk, while not a big thing, is overrunning plays due to being overaggressive. While this isn't a big deal in college, it will take him out of many plays in the NFL. An easy problem to fix however, all he has to do is learn to slow down.

if the team did try and slow him down, then they might have just taken away what made him the great player he was in college

[woodbuck27]

McGinn's whole "smallnsoft" campaign from early in the season has given way to teh "bignslow" campaign after the Packers lost to SF again. Funny how McGinn can call for the team to get "tough" for about six months in the offseason, and now for the next six months we'll hear about how the Packers' linebackers and defenders are too slow.

So draft speedy dudes!

TT has to think "speed and "back seven now"or LB and Secondary (DB's). The Packer defense is getting hit hard by any NFL team having a rusher that can find the edge. That's killing us.

TT and his Scouting Dept. have to focus on adding height and strength to Secondary as well as a bonus. The GIANT WR's coming into the NFL now are killing smaller DB's.

TT should send Scouts to places like China and Africa and look for intelligent specimens that can be brought in as Street FA's and developed in the Packers program that should always be tweaked to improve on an annual basis.


Ted Thompson and his drafting style:

Ted Thompson should seriously stop watering down his draft into the latter rounds. He should use round 1-4 picks and stay the heck away from targeting small college drafting strategies. DO NOT DRAFT TT unless the prospect is recognized. Plays at a First Class College.

Ted Thompson has to stop looking for the limelight as he won't pull any rabbits out of his GM hat going there in the valuable DRAFT.

Sure by all means bring in these almost invisible prospects as strictly UFA's (Undrafted Free Agents) please. Thank You Ted ! :smile:

This is "the NOW Get It Done Era" for the Green Bay Packers and Aaron Rodgers.

Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy have to get their shit together and set down a real sensible plan based on "just that FOCUS".

It has to have much to do with NOW and Aaron Rodgers.

Ensure the OL is SOLID. That has to be a highest priority.

Re-build the middle of the defense to a DEFENSE.

TT has to do the best he can with four DLman being UFA's.

I say move BJ Raji to NT if MM and Dom Capers insist on the not fitting the talent 3-4 base (2-4-5 common small "d" defense). If BJ Raji departs which seems likely to happen. He's obviously NOT happy in Green Bay based on three things:

a) His rejection of a solid #8 Million$/year offer from TT (Russ Ball)

b) His extreme drop in productivity/performance in 2013.

c) Like others ( E D-S, James Starks, James Jones, Sam Shields) and I expect in (*** 2015 .. Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb) BJ Raji wants to test the Free Agent Market to see his TRUE worth.

SEE BJ Raji NT (NOT 3 Tech DE) >>>Retain DT Ryan Pickett on the cheap. Ryan Pickett is about done soon to be done at 34 years of age. I still al the same love his leadership and attitude as a real plus if he can at least offer in a reduced count of snaps in 2014. . . . . . Bring back Johnny Jolly if he's in near 100% shape. <<< SEE BJ Raji

If BJ Ragi is signed then Ted Thompson and his Scouting Dept. need to SECURE a solid 3-Tech DE in the 2014 Draft.

Sign NO. 98 >>> DE C. J. Wilson as he offers solid Run support. He's 26 years old.

My analysis actually centers a lot on the Base 'D' that the Packers use in 2014. What BJ Raji ( see four DL UFA's) and TT decide for one another. Lump in the FA status of Sam Shields, James Jones and Evan Dietrich-Smith as well.

If TT allows E-D-S to get to Free Agency he's making a huge error. TT has to get that 10th ranked Center wrapped up BIG TIME !

TT will likely make another offer and depended on what MM insists on with DC Dom Capers defense. That offer may or may not remain @ $8 Million$ /Year. If Raji is promised NT he may be enticed to remain in Green Bay? The bottom line will be what he's offered elsewhere compared to Green Bay.

"In fact"... BJ Ragi looks simply done with the Packers.

From all I'm learning... Sam Shields does as well. It certainly appears that Ted Thompson "Paddy F'd around too much" with CB Sam Shields. This is Sam Shields Packerrats...a maturing/dependable 25 year old CORNERBACK !! That crap can only be played with certain personality's and obviously Sam Shields and BJ Raji believe they know their real value to any NFL team now not named Green Bay Packers.

I'm also well aware of Ted Thompson's duty to protecting the Packers Salary CAP.

I just hope that all the CAP TT and Russ Ball tossed at Aaron Rodgers and CM III isn't going to bite the Green Bay Packers in the arse.

*** http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/gb/

The bottom line. Too much damn $$$money$$$ is going to change if not outright ruin the NFL and most of all the identity of football. That fact looms huge on our collective football horizons. The game of football is getting screwed over. :idea:

It's all about now and the $$$BIG Cash in$$$ of their self-percieved talents and some TRUST that one NFL team will pay. Who could find any blame there. There is no such thing as "loyalty in pro Sports " today. That disappeared a long time ago. Loyalty has a $Big Dollar$ sign attached to it.

The flip side is that they better understand the Salary CAP and how every single NFL Team is positioned specifically in that regard. If as individuals that's all to complicated. They better have an agent that has their BEST interests at heart and is very clever and knows all about NFL team financing. How to negotiate "the best contract" for the client. What a good and interesting job that would be. The thing is as the CAP ceiling is now and as so very very few take; so very very much of an NFL teams Salary CAP. It's become a headache for both sides...and defined best by the old saying:

You can't get blood from a stone. ;-)

I want TT to force MM ad DC Dom Capers to right now... switch to a 4-3 Base Defense.

The obvious first step towords fixing the Packers poor defense.

"Square pegs in round holes." = Green Bay Packers defense. That's the core of the issue/problem.

That and more physically capable defensive payers and an improved health and conditioning program. Take a god lok at Mike McCarthy and simply ask yourselves?

WTF is he all about !? Is Mike McCarthy a HC that leads by example?

Good grief it's over the top perfectly obvious that ...NO MM isn't even marginally close to being there.

He obviously is anal about food. His stress level is obviously out of sight awful. his attitude and outward demeanour and temperament outrageously deplorable. That man is not up to speed with anything even close to resembling happiness.

The success of the GREEN BAY PACKERS is depended on GM Ted Thompson and HC Mike McCarthy and DC Dom Capers !!

I clearly am concerned about what I cannot avoid seeing.

You have to be either numb, insensitive or sadly deluded to NOT see it all right now. Not this time next year.

Open your mind. Pay attention.

GO PACKERS...GO PACK GO !

[mraynrand]

yet in college, against top talent no less, hawk was a fast dominate playmaker

in his 4 year career he had over 400 tackles, 15.5 sacks, 41 tackles behind the LOS, forced 3 funbles, had a blocked punt that he recovered for a TD, had 7 int's and 13 defended passes

team mvp twice, lombardi award winner

the guy had playmaking talent. it either didn't translate to the nfl, or the team cut off his balls and turned him into a vanilla player.

when clay was out earlier in the year, the team put hawk in a different role, and he looked a lot like the same player he was in college. then clay came back, and he went back to the vanilla ILB

5.5 million is a lot to pay a vanilla or average player, but if thats how the team wants him to play, and if they want to pay him that much for that role, then i guess thats what they want

being in Ohio and being told how great he was over and over, I took the opportunity to watch him play - more than I might otherwise. It's so long ago that it's hard to remember all that I was thinking, but what remains is my initial reaction after a handful of games was that he was Barnett writ large - obvious physical attributes, but that they covered for a lack of feel for the game. He's OK, but he's not a #5.

Also, if he was so damn great when Clay was out, why didn't he do anything once Clay was lost again against Pitt. Oh, wait, he did have that INT against pitt - was that before or after Clay was hurt? Against SF: horrible, just horrible. Just look at his pass rush on the play where Bush blows outside contain and tell me that's what you want from your #5 draft pick. What a waste.

[pbmax]

No it's not hard. For some guys, they can play. For others, they cannot. Hawk is closer to the latter. He just doesn't make any great plays. Solid, but entirely unspectacular. Would have been a great round 3 or lower pick (great value!), but is a disaster as a #5 overall pick where you need an all-pro difference maker. When you suck bad enough to get one of those picks, you have to make them count. Recent Packers Bad years (plus a trade) gave them the following great top 20 picks: Reynolds, Harrell, Hawk, Raji. Blechhh.

Are you saying Hawk is closer to not being able to play than being able to play? As in below average?

I don't get that. He's a plugger type when his combine numbers and career suggested something different. I think its a combo of weight and defensive system that have changed the outlook on how he plays and it could be that his instincts do not allow him to take complete advantage of his speed.

But that last point is why I think its hard to project how speed numbers will translate to game speed in the NFL. Lots of players have needed to really learn the nuances of their position in the NFL, in addition to honing their instincts before being able to play at full speed. Taking a faster prospect does not necessarily translate into a speedier, better defense was the point.

[woodbuck27]

RE: ILB AJ Hawk and more....

It might have been worse. Remember this guy that we had so much hope for?:

Round Three, Pick 67: Adbdul Hodge, LB, Iowa

When TT elected to go with his #5 Pick Overall and AJ Hawk.

It was for me ... well OK...that's it. Ted Thompson was 'in LOVE" with AJ Hawk. A lot of Packer fans were digging AJ Hawk as well. I looked at all the video's. AJ Hawk could penetrate the LOS and move laterally in pursuit of the ball carrier. He looked rather small to me at 6' - 1 " but he weighed in at 248 lbs. He demonstrated focus, hustle and good ball instincts. He tackled well. He appeared to have the potential to be more that a lunch box player.

What was there to dislike!? You had to like that name and his NO. 50 jersey must have sold like hot cakes. If I saw one today I wouldn't shun it.

Career Highlights: First-team All-Rookie (2006); Super Bowl XLV Champion (2010 Season )

To Date: Tackles 832; Sacks 18.5 ; Interceptions 9

I was parked in the camp that loved TE Vernon Davis because he looked really really special.

TE Vernon Davis: Career highlights and awards:

2× Pro Bowl (2009, 2013); AP Second-Team All-Pro (2013); NFC champion (2012)

3× NFL Top 100 Ranking (2011-88th; 2012-43rd; 2013-38th)

Receptions 397 - Receiving yards 5,201 - Receiving average 13.1 - Receiving TDs 53

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Davis

#5 Green Bay A.J. Hawk - LB

#6 San Francisco Vernon Davis - TE

#7 Oakland Michael Huff ; #8 Buffalo Donte' Whitner ; #9 Detroit Ernie Sims - LB ; #10 Arizona Matt Leinart - QB

I felt that TT went with what he knew or LBer. a rather high pick for that position but OK TT played LB and must have it covered.

Three years into his career with the Packers AJ Hawk: NO Pro Bowl selection... started all 48 games... 310 tackles, and 7.5 SACKS ... 3 PICKS and 11 PD's ...Pass Defenses.

Year after year since he's played unspectacularly but is close to; or if he remains a Green Bay Packer, soon will set the Packer All time Record for Tackles. He has to date Tackles 832; 18.5 Sacks and 9 Picks.

As I recall it... AJ Hawk made one (1) Pro Bowl as an alternate in now nine (9) seasons. On the plus side he's proven durable having missed a total of 'only'

His contracts represent "the Lowest Point" of TT's contract offerings in terms of extreme excess. Those ****extreme excess's by Ted Thompson, thank goodness are rare****.

It seems to me that Packers GM Ted Thompson and Russ Ball know how to guard the cookie jar until it comes to his star or elite players. I'm watching that in terms of Aaron Rodgers and Clay Mathews III both who did extremely well by " the generosity side" of Ted Thompson.:-D

I feel that Ted Thompson got burnt shelling out to AJ Hawk. I bet that AJ Hawk has a nice home.

The poorer judgement and or bad luck shows up again with CB Tramon Williams. Tramon William's game has gone south since his injury. Yet , their may be hope as we're seeing some signs of a recovery late in 2013 and in the playoff one and out Vs the San Fran 49ers. A man better play well in a Contract Year which is coming up in 2014 for Tramon Williams.

Looking at Ted Thompson and his awarding of contracts a little closer:

FS Morgan Burnett:

It appears that Ted Thompson has over evaluated FS Morgan Burnett but that's still open for something better. Maybe it's simply a case of looking for and acquiring a real NO. 1 FS... to support Safety Morgan Burnett. ACTION ..Warning to the man himself>>>Ted Thompson. Focus on "a solid experienced difference maker @ the safety position".

Holding with what TT had last year @ Safety = FAILURE !

TE Jermichael Finley:

Ted Thompson hasn't seen any real return from TE Jermichel Finley. Finley has eaten up too much CAP for what he hasn't delivered. It's time for TT to move on without Jermichael Finley. He more that simply FLASHED his potential but consistency, health, maturity and being down to earth aren't his strong suits.

This is simply flat out disappointing. I'm sure that ted Thompson fels this way. Mike McCarthy backed Jermichael ALL THE WAY. MM is now doing the same and DC Dom Capers.

Is there a common theme (thread) there? That's for Ted Thompson to see and handle.

GO PACK GO !

[mraynrand]

Are you saying Hawk is closer to not being able to play than being able to play? As in below average?

I don't get that. He's a plugger type when his combine numbers and career suggested something different. I think its a combo of weight and defensive system that have changed the outlook on how he plays and it could be that his instincts do not allow him to take complete advantage of his speed.

But that last point is why I think its hard to project how speed numbers will translate to game speed in the NFL. Lots of players have needed to really learn the nuances of their position in the NFL, in addition to honing their instincts before being able to play at full speed. Taking a faster prospect does not necessarily translate into a speedier, better defense was the point.

To clarify, when I say "some guys can play" I'm talking pro-bowl, potential HOF players. I like examples - LT (tomlinson) was picked #5. That's the kind of guy I was expecting Hawk to be. I know, the greatest source of disappointment are elevated expectations, but seriously when you get a #5 pick, it ought to be special, especially when you have a damn good GM who played that position.

My point is that from watching Hawk, I didn't like his football instincts. Maybe that is why TT kept saying - more recently than 2006, that he reminds his staff to constantly remind him to pick football players, and not just guys with measurables.

[mraynrand]

The dream 2006 was either VD or trade down from #5 to get Ngata and another pick, package that pick with others if necessary to get Tamba Hali. Many at the time, including 'ole Scoops McGinn, were suggesting drafting Ngata. Someone with that *ucking draft value chart can tell me what the Packers would have been able to get with the #5 for the #12 (Ngata) and what it would have cost to move up to #20 (Hali); I'm too lazy.

[red]

The dream 2006 was either VD or trade down from #5 to get Ngata and another pick, package that pick with others if necessary to get Tamba Hali. Many at the time, including 'ole Scoops McGinn, were suggesting drafting Ngata. Someone with that *ucking draft value chart can tell me what the Packers would have been able to get with the #5 for the #12 (Ngata) and what it would have cost to move up to #20 (Hali); I'm too lazy.

YOUR dream would have been VD. i wanted no part of that piece of shit who didn't even want to play for green bay. plus it took him about 4 years before he even turned into a player. he carried the bust tag for the first 2 or 3 years

ngata i liked a lot, but some of the others that i liked in that draft class didn't turn out so well. i remember people liking huff a lot. the next 2 best LB's were sims and greenway. greenway is in about the same boat career wise as hawk, and sims has been a massive bust after his rookie year

mathias kiwinuka and manny lawson were two other guys that i remember talking about a lot heading into the draft

hawk was able to step in right away at a position where we needed help WILL LB. davis was worthless for 3 years. can you wait 4 years for a top 5 pick to develop? or would you have been sitting on here in 2009 bitching about how TT should have drafted a guy that can play like hawk vs a total bust like VD?

[mraynrand]

YOUR dream would have been VD. i wanted no part of that piece of shit who didn't even want to play for green bay. plus it took him about 4 years before he even turned into a player. he carried the bust tag for the first 2 or 3 years

bad coaching! :)

How many guys drafted really want to play for Green Bay - especially in 2006, coming off a 5 win season, an unknown coach and GM? Did that really seem all that strange? I bet Rodgers wasn't excited to come in and wait behind Favre - especially since he know about his propensity to pass gas.

[mraynrand]

or would you have been sitting on here in 2009 bitching about how TT should have drafted a guy that can play like hawk vs a total bust like VD?

kinda depends on who drafted Hawk and how he turned out with better coaching, right?

[red]

kinda depends on who drafted Hawk and how he turned out with better coaching, right?

well we proved then, with bubba franks, and now with finley, that we don't know how to develop TE's. maybe it never clicks for davis in GB

maybe hawk goes to new england and hoody turns him into a hall of famer?