KG Steps Down

[call_me_ishmael]

Steps down, or "Steps down"?

[QBME]

Wow, kind of unexpected. Makes me wonder if he was asked to.

[Rutnstrut]

Wow, kind of unexpected. Makes me wonder if he was asked to.

If he was asked to, or if he doesn't want to coach under a dumb ass like Capers. This is the wrong defensive coach to be leaving, this team never makes any good moves.

[SMBASS]

@TomSilverstein

Almost all of the players Greene was given over his 5 years were college DEs. He spent most of his time teaching them to be OLBs.


Imagine if we actually drafted outside linebackers to play outside linebacker.

[pbmax]

@TomSilverstein

Almost all of the players Greene was given over his 5 years were college DEs. He spent most of his time teaching them to be OLBs.


Imagine if we actually drafted outside linebackers to play outside linebacker.

There are not a whole lotta college programs running a 3-4. And those that do don't have many NFL ready OLB prospects. Didn't see one at Wisconsin this year. Matthews played Leo or Elephant in a 4-3 though he sometimes he did use a 2 point stance.

I suspect this was "steps down" because of the timing, but he would not have been Top 3 likely to go in my list.

Should I ever had compiled such a list.

[red]

well, that was the one coach on defense i cared for and showed any passion or fire or ability to teach anyone

so

i say blow it the fuck up

[run pMc]

Says it was for personal reasons and to be with his family more.

Given the hours assistant coaches put in, and probably all the flak and projects he had to deal with, he might have gotten fed up. Or maybe his family has a health or personal issue, or maybe he just misses them. Who knows.

I thought he'd done pretty well with the players he had to work with, so I'm kinda bummed about it. It presents an opportunity for them to get a new voice in there and hopefully help develop those young guys.
Either that, or M3 will have Edgar Bennett coach them. ;)

[denverYooper]

Welp.

[Rutnstrut]

well, that was the one coach on defense i cared for and showed any passion or fire or ability to teach anyone

so

i say blow it the fuck up

Yup.

[red]

There are not a whole lotta college programs running a 3-4. And those that do don't have many ready OLB prospects. Didn't see one at Wisconsin this year. Matthews played Leo or Elephant in a 4-3 though he sometimes he did use a 2 point stance.

I suspect this was "steps down" because of the timing, but he would not have been Top 3 likely to go in my list.

Should I ever had compiled such a list.

actually, there are quite a few. for whatever reason nfl teams thing college DE's are a better prospect then college 3-4OLB's who have excelled at that position in college

one that come to mind is clint sintim in 2009. he was great playing OLB in college in virginia's 3-4. we passed on him, and for some reason the giants (a 4-3 team) took him and tried to turn him into a 4-3 OLB.

he had a slow start followed by some injuries and he's retired now. but it is proff that there are skilled 3-4 OLB's already in college

i think it shows just how much nfl teams don't care about the system the player played in college. in their opinions players can adapt, even though recent history has showed us that players are incapable of adapting

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

IMO, one of the better Packer coaches, so from where I am standing, the coaching situation is regressing, not progressing. Sorta like watching a train wreck in slow motion...aw, fuck it...

[red]

too bad capers doesn't care as much for his family

[denverYooper]

How's Dom's family? Does he have any grandkids that he might decide to spend more time with?

[SMBASS]

There are not a whole lotta college programs running a 3-4. And those that do don't have many ready OLB prospects. Didn't see one at Wisconsin this year. Matthews played Leo or Elephant in a 4-3 though he sometimes he did use a 2 point stance.

I suspect this was "steps down" because of the timing, but he would not have been Top 3 likely to go in my list.

Should I ever had compiled such a list.

I guess in my oversimplified way of looking at it PB an outside linebacker is an outside linebacker whether you run a 3-4 or a 4-3. You still have to know how to cover, tackle, shed blockers and rush the passer via blitz. Why not take an OL with some size and speed and try to teach him some of the finer points of rushing the passer when needed instead of taking a DL and trying to teach him everything else on top of playing in space which he's never done at all or done very little of.

Sounds like Greene decided to step down to spend more time with his kids and family.

[pbmax]

I guess in my oversimplified way of looking at it PB an outside linebacker is an outside linebacker whether you run a 3-4 or a 4-3. You still have to know how to cover, tackle, shed blockers and rush the passer via blitz. Why not take an OL with some size and speed and try to teach him some of the finer points of rushing the passer when needed instead of taking a DL and trying to teach him everything else on top of playing in space which he's never done at all or done very little of.

Sounds like Greene decided to step down to spend more time with his kids and family.

From a strictly skills standpoint, you may be right. But from a matchup point of view, the OLB is usually dealing with a Tackle in a 3-4. Sam linebacker in a 4-3 is dealing with a TE and occasionally a Tackle. The one skill that probably does not crossover is emphasis on pass rush.

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 50m
In 5 years, Greene was given 2 first-rounders (Matthews and Perry) and a second-rounder (Neal). Also FAs, Walden, Moses, Mulumba, Zombo...

Would a failure to develop Perry be enough reason to bounce him? Has Perry been healthy enough to judge?

[Guiness]

Um, wow. I'm really, really surprised by this, and I think for many here he wasn't one of the coaches that we thought could be in trouble.

I don't feel there a concern with the performance of his players. Goes without saying that Clay has played well. Perry hasn't worked out, but injuries have held him back. It seemed like he got as good of performances as could be expected out of Mulumba and Perry as rookies, and Neale, first year at the position.

[Rutnstrut]

Please let this mean they are firing Capers and staff and gave KG a heads up.

[call_me_ishmael]

There are not a whole lotta college programs running a 3-4. And those that do don't have many NFL ready OLB prospects. Didn't see one at Wisconsin this year. Matthews played Leo or Elephant in a 4-3 though he sometimes he did use a 2 point stance.

I suspect this was "steps down" because of the timing, but he would not have been Top 3 likely to go in my list.

Should I ever had compiled such a list.

Alabama? LSU? What other schools?

[denverYooper]

Terrell Davis was on our local radio station a month or so ago talking about how Shanny offered him a coaching job after he (TD) retired. Davis thanked him but said no way, because he knew what kind of ridiculous hours coaches put in.

[Rutnstrut]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 50m
In 5 years, Greene was given 2 first-rounders (Matthews and Perry) and a second-rounder (Neal). Also FAs, Walden, Moses, Mulumba, Zombo...

Would a failure to develop Perry be enough reason to bounce him? Has Perry been healthy enough to judge?

Do you think they are making him a scapegoat? If that's the case, I hate TT and stubby even more.

[call_me_ishmael]

The actual NFL reporter that is on WSSP said a few minutes into a conversation with Greene and he'd forget what he was talking about. Literally say something to the effect of "I'm sorry, what were we talking about again? Too many hits to the head."

[mraynrand]

Walk it through:

If he's a quality coach, you might have expected him to move up in the ranks by now. After all, he isn't a LB coach, he's an OLB coach. Even Singletary took less time to move up - one year mooing with Nolan from Raven to SF. Interim coach from a position much like Moss in 2008 when Nolan was canned. And then it got really bad.

So either he didn't want to move up, he wasn't qualified to move up, or there was no interest in promoting him due to performance. In any case, you have stagnation.

What about performance? Injuries aside, you could say he did a decent job with a lot of scrubs and one blue chipper, and recently seemed to be making progress with Neal and Perry (though there were cracks - how did Perry so terribly blow his assignment against Chicago? What about Mulumba screwing up? Is KG being blamed for Walden's errors?). At the same time, Matthews IMO is rapidly regressing in pass rushing since moving to the right side. So how much of this is due to KG? Was he part of the scheme to move Matthews? If not, is his failure the failure of others, by giving him the wrong tools in the wrong spots.

Maybe he's stepping down because he's frustrated with what he's been dealt.

The "wanting to spend more time with the family" trope is LOL funny. Nobody wants to spend more time with their family.

Will be interesting to see what comes out, and what the Packers do with their collection of Misfit Kids at LB

[SMBASS]

From a strictly skills standpoint, you may be right. But from a matchup point of view, the OLB is usually dealing with a Tackle in a 3-4. Sam linebacker in a 4-3 is dealing with a TE and occasionally a Tackle. The one skill that probably does not crossover is emphasis on pass rush.

Believe me, I understand what you're saying. These teams want a guy who is 6-4/6-5 around 270+ lbs. so that he can take on tackles and set an edge in the run game and then they think they can teach him how to play in space, cover running backs in pass routes, etc.. In my opinion and just by my observations most of these guys are never fast enough and never adapt to playing in that space. It just seems that a lot more of these experiments fail than succeed. There just aren't that many CMIII's coming out of college who have the speed and athletic ability to make that adaptation.

[Rutnstrut]

The actual NFL reporter that is on WSSP said a few minutes into a conversation with Greene and he'd forget what he was talking about. Literally say something to the effect of "I'm sorry, what were we talking about again? Too many hits to the head."

That can also be from long hours and too many things going on at once, I really hope he can slow down and relax.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

The actual NFL reporter that is on WSSP said a few minutes into a conversation with Greene and he'd forget what he was talking about. Literally say something to the effect of "I'm sorry, what were we talking about again? Too many hits to the head."

Or he is in shock because the Packers are fucking him...

[mraynrand]

The actual NFL reporter that is on WSSP said a few minutes into a conversation with Greene and he'd forget what he was talking about. Literally say something to the effect of "I'm sorry, what were we talking about again? Too many hits to the head."

Holy Christmas

[Rutnstrut]

Walk it through:

If he's a quality coach, you might have expected him to move up in the ranks by now. After all, he isn't a LB coach, he's an OLB coach. Even Singletary took less time to move up - one year mooing with Nolan from Raven to SF. Interim coach from a position much like Moss in 2008 when Nolan was canned. And then it got really bad.

So either he didn't want to move up, he wasn't qualified to move up, or there was no interest in promoting him due to performance. In any case, you have stagnation.

What about performance? Injuries aside, you could say he did a decent job with a lot of scrubs and one blue chipper, and recently seemed to be making progress with Neal and Perry (though there were cracks - how did Perry so terribly blow his assignment against Chicago? What about Mulumba screwing up? Is KG being blamed for Walden's errors?). At the same time, Matthews IMO is rapidly regressing in pass rushing since moving to the right side. So how much of this is due to KG? Was he part of the scheme to move Matthews? If not, is his failure the failure of others, by giving him the wrong tools in the wrong spots.

Maybe he's stepping down because he's frustrated with what he's been dealt.

The "wanting to spend more time with the family" trope is LOL funny. Nobody wants to spend more time with their family.

Will be interesting to see what comes out, and what the Packers do with their collection of Misfit Kids at LB

So the same could be said about Capers, if he is a quality coach, why has NO ONE been after him for a head coaching job? I know he has failed as a head coach in the past, so don't bring that up. The big reason no one has tried to "steal" him away is because he SUCKS!!!

[Guiness]

Walk it through:

If he's a quality coach, you might have expected him to move up in the ranks by now. After all, he isn't a LB coach, he's an OLB coach. Even Singletary took less time to move up - one year mooing with Nolan from Raven to SF. Interim coach from a position much like Moss in 2008 when Nolan was canned. And then it got really bad.

Just read an article on it, he's been with the Pack for 5 years. That surprised me, and you're right, you'd expect him to have moved up a bit by now. If he wanted to stay in GB, that's a bit of a dilemma in itself though, there really hasn't been any turnover in the defensive staff.

[woodbuck27]

What the FUCK is this !?

Have I entered the GD Twilight Zone !?

Suddenly my stomach is churning.

[Rutnstrut]

Just read an article on it, he's been with the Pack for 5 years. That surprised me, and you're right, you'd expect him to have moved up a bit by now. If he wanted to stay in GB, that's a bit of a dilemma in itself though, there really hasn't been any turnover in the defensive staff.

So why has no one tried to hire Capers away from GB?

[red]

Just read an article on it, he's been with the Pack for 5 years. That surprised me, and you're right, you'd expect him to have moved up a bit by now. If he wanted to stay in GB, that's a bit of a dilemma in itself though, there really hasn't been any turnover in the defensive staff.

the problem comes from the fact that we never fire any of our assistant coaches for being shit, and no one else wants our coaches because they are shit

therefore, you have nowhere to move up on this team

and i also, don't buy for a second that he's leaving to spend more time with the fam. bullshit

[Patler]

It was said when he came to GB that he had other opportunities earlier, but didn't want to make the full time commitment to coaching. He had been a special assistant during training camp only for a couple teams, but nothing beyond that. He came to GB with limited responsibilities, saying that if he was ever going to try coaching full time, it made sense to do it under Capers, doing exactly what he knew the best. I wasn't sure that he would stay more than a year or two at the time.

Coaching isn't for everyone.

(Besides, if he has had too many hits to the head, maybe he doesn't want to waste his best years being away from his family.)

[Patler]

the problem comes from the fact that we never fire any of our assistant coaches for being shit,...

Tell that to the first defensive staff that MM had in GB.

[mraynrand]

So the same could be said about Capers, if he is a quality coach, why has NO ONE been after him for a head coaching job? I know he has failed as a head coach in the past, so don't bring that up. The big reason no one has tried to "steal" him away is because he SUCKS!!!


OK, I won't bring it up, but you answered your own question. Peter Principle, I would say.

[Rutnstrut]

OK, I won't bring it up, but you answered your own question. Peter Principle, I would say.

Yet no one has even mentioned him as a head coach or a DC, that's pretty damn telling. The past HC failures don't really seem to matter in the NFL, IF the coach has any talent at all. Hell, even Josh McDaniels was in strong running for HC jobs this year.

[mraynrand]

the problem comes from the fact that we never fire any of our assistant coaches for being shit


"Really? Hey, by the way, I'm coaching in a game this weekend; what's 'Ol Dom Capers up to?"
http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/P1000994.jpg

[mraynrand]

(Besides, if he has had too many hits to the head, maybe he doesn't want to waste his best years being away from his family.)

How the hell would he know? That's sort of a joke, but it is not funny.

[woodbuck27]

well, that was the one coach on defense i cared for and showed any passion or fire or ability to teach anyone

so

i say blow it the fuck up

I'll admit now my immediate response was an over reaction.

quia ego tristis erroris mei.

I'm sad for my error.

[mraynrand]

Watch it all blow up in their faces. Ass that is going down get clearly on the side of Packer nation that will absolutely want Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy and DC Dom Capers hung from the rafters.

You're a kinky guy, Woody. Maybe you should PM Harlan.

[red]

Tell that to the first defensive staff that MM had in GB.

who i still say MM was forced to get rid of by TT, because he's never fired anyone else

[Patler]

who i still say MM was forced to get rid of by TT, because he's never fired anyone else

Other than the Special Teams coach the same year, and one S&C coach.

There was a time when people said MM would have difficulty getting good assistants because he didn't show enough loyalty.

[KYPack]

Hey, er, ah, what's goin' on?

When Old had that thread about "What do you think will happen" or whatever, I said I wanted a bolt out of the blue.

I did, but not this shit.

[woodbuck27]

Hey, er, ah, what's goin' on?

When Old had that thread about "What do you think will happen" or whatever, I said I wanted a bolt out of the blue.

I did, but not this shit.

Since this thread began.

It's averaged one post about every 2.43 minutes.

I'm getting a stiff drink.

[red]

interesting line from packers.com


In Greene’s five seasons with the team (2009-13), the Packers registered 204 sacks, No. 4 in the NFL over that span, with the outside linebackers accounting for 91.5 of those sacks.

so, do we really need to find more help at OLB? is it really even a problem, or do we just think it is?

[pbmax]

interesting line from packers.com



so, do we really need to find more help at OLB? is it really even a problem, or do we just think it is?

Its inconsistent and can be taken away with a good O line. Perry and Neal can get better (or should).

But you are mostly right, the biggest problem is in the DTs.

[woodbuck27]

So the same could be said about Capers, if he is a quality coach, why has NO ONE been after him for a head coaching job? I know he has failed as a head coach in the past, so don't bring that up. The big reason no one has tried to "steal" him away is because he SUCKS!!!

Important NFL personnel are reading Packerrats.

Reading other informed posters views in other Packer fan Forms.

I'm telling anyone who doubts this:

The fans RULE.

[woodbuck27]

This news just hit NFL Total Access and the word they have is that Kevin Greene steped away from his Packer Coaching job because he has decided to spend more time with his family.

and ..........................so he will.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10310381/kevin-greene-stepping-linebackers-coach-green-bay-packers

Kevin Greene done as Pack LB coach

Updated: January 17, 2014, 4:36 PM ET

I havn't read this story LINK above at this time. I'll get there. Reflect on it then.


Comment woodbuck27:

OK I've read it:

** "Kevin approached me recently to express his desire to step away from coaching so that he could spend more time with his family," Packers coach Mike McCarthy

** "Kevin provided an incredible amount of energy, passion and knowledge each and every day he was with us. The dedication he showed to maximizing the potential of his players was clearly evident to anyone that worked with him, and he will be missed. I want to wish Kevin, Tara, Gavin and Gabrielle nothing but the best in the years ahead." Mike McCarthy

** "My experience here with the Green Bay Packers has been nothing but positive," Greene said. "I am eternally grateful for the opportunity that Mike McCarthy and [general manager] Ted Thompson have blessed me with. I have a peace about the productivity that I helped bring forward in all of the fine young men that have been entrusted to me these past five years. I am most proud of all their accomplishments and the fine young men they've become in this league." Kevin Greene ***

*** Now ... Former Green Bay Packers OLB Coach and the NFL's all-time sack leader at outside linebacker with 160 SACKS with the Pittsburgh Steelers and Carolina Panthers.

Note: Earlier this month, Greene was named as a finalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.


Comment woodbuck27:

This is shocking news for me.... a disappointing possibly huge loss for the Green Bay Packers.

Packers that worked hard with Coach Kevin Greene may be shocked at this news.

That's a wait and see.

This one may blindside a lot of fans etc. in Packer Nation.

[Cheesehead Craig]

This is Kevin Greene the coach, not Kevin Greene the player that we are losing. Let's not mix the two up with the outrage here.

[Rutnstrut]

This is Kevin Greene the coach, not Kevin Greene the player that we are losing. Let's not mix the two up with the outrage here.

I think part of the outrage is that a lot of people want/expect a move in the defense, and if this it, we are outraged. To me this has scapegoat written all over it.

[mraynrand]

Important NFL personnel are reading Packerrats.

Reading other informed posters views in other Packer fan Forms.

I'm telling anyone who doubts this:

The fans RULE.


This belongs in the "From the WTF? file" thread

[mraynrand]

This is Kevin Greene the coach, not Kevin Greene the player that we are losing. Let's not mix the two up with the outrage here.

Kevin Greene the player is not very good anymore.

[mraynrand]

I think part of the outrage is that a lot of people want/expect a move in the defense, and if this it, we are outraged. To me this has scapegoat written all over it.

This scapegoat can hit back

http://packerrats.com/image.php?u=529&dateline=1382537830

[pbmax]

Pete Dougherty (GBPG) was on local radio and said the following:

1. He's not buying the spending time with family reason, but its just a general suspicion nothing confirmed yet
2. Questions his effect on players after first year (mentions Perry and D Moses)
3. Says Green was an advocate for Ricky Elmore and Nate Palmer, neither of which were ready to play OLB in the NFL
4. Thinks this would be Capers call more than McCarthy although did not specify why
5. Said he is always crowd favorite at camp because of volume and enthusiasm, but that is not always indicative of quality coaching


One thing not mentioned but I wonder if it played a part, Eric Walden still has a starting job with the Colts D and that D played pretty well.

[mraynrand]

5. Said he is always crowd favorite at camp because of volume and enthusiasm, but that is not always indicative of quality coaching


"Did someone mention my name?"

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Mike-Singletary-212x300.jpg

[woodbuck27]

You're a kinky guy, Woody. Maybe you should PM Harlan.

I'm wondering if your as quick to wipe you ass ... as you are to run your stinking agenda? :wink:

[mraynrand]

I'm wondering if your as quick to wipe you ass ... as you are to run your stinking agenda? :wink:

I prefer a bidet

[woodbuck27]

I think part of the outrage is that a lot of people want/expect a move in the defense, and if this it, we are outraged. To me this has scapegoat written all over it.

My advice simply wait.

It'll come out in the wash.

I respect the fact that "Freedom Of Speech" is evident here.

Patience.

[woodbuck27]

I prefer a bidet

Yessss you woulllld.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDls_7TmaDY


Happy pooping mraynrand. :smile:

[mraynrand]

Yessss you woulllld.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDls_7TmaDY


Happy pooping mraynrand. :smile:

Don't be an Eddie Douchette.

[mraynrand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYIe9o2jMSE

[red]

Its inconsistent and can be taken away with a good O line. Perry and Neal can get better (or should).

But you are mostly right, the biggest problem is in the DTs.

you're absolutely right about it being a sack or nothing, that is the big problem

an opposing QB needs to fear that he could get hit on every single play and with us, thats not the case at all. there's times when we've sent 5 or 6 and the QB still has all day in the pocket

i think its the d-linemen not doing their job, they're suppose to be eating up multiple blockers. when hawk or jones comes on a delayed blitz and theres an o-linemen just standing there waiting for them, then to me, in this system, thats on the d-line fail

[red]

Pete Dougherty (GBPG) was on local radio and said the following:

5. Said he is always crowd favorite at camp because of volume and enthusiasm, but that is not always indicative of quality coaching



first practice i saw him coach at, the team broke off into groups and the pass rushers and 0-tackles came and worked out right in front of me. 1v1. greene was yelling and screaming the whole time, all positive, trying to fire the guys up. if a pass rusher failed, greene jumped right in to show the guy what they should have done, then he would turn to the o-lineman and gave him pointers on how to combat what he just showed. if he saw an OT do anything wrong, greene jumped in and showed him how he could be exploited doing that, then tried to correct him

every other coach on the field except M3 was just standing around watching their guys. greene was the only one trying to teach in the middle of practice. and he was teaching others, not just his group

thats when i gained respect for him as a coach

[Smidgeon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYIe9o2jMSE

I remember this scene, and I haven't seen the movie for (maybe?) 20 years.

[Striker]

Sucks to see him go...but I can understand if it's due to the hours...or just being fed up with Capers/the personnel.

Hopefully they can bring someone else in with that attitude...don't necessarily want to see them promote from within.

[red]

Pete Dougherty (GBPG) was on local radio and said the following:

1. He's not buying the spending time with family reason, but its just a general suspicion nothing confirmed yet
2. Questions his effect on players after first year (mentions Perry and D Moses)
3. Says Green was an advocate for Ricky Elmore and Nate Palmer, neither of which were ready to play OLB in the NFL
4. Thinks this would be Capers call more than McCarthy although did not specify why
5. Said he is always crowd favorite at camp because of volume and enthusiasm, but that is not always indicative of quality coaching


One thing not mentioned but I wonder if it played a part, Eric Walden still has a starting job with the Colts D and that D played pretty well.

as for walden. i think thats a case of a guy starting because the front office fucked up and paid him starter money. just like brad jones

walden played in 15 games this year and had a whopping 26 tackles and 3 sacks. the same kind of numbers he had his last 3 years in GB

so its not like he went somewhere else and played lights out

[Fritz]

If you polled rats on which coach they least wanted to see go, it'd be Greene.

Damn.

Doesn't Slocum miss his family?

[Guiness]

If you polled rats on which coach they least wanted to see go, it'd be Greene.

Damn.

Doesn't Slocum miss his family?

I think his own dog growls at him when he goes home.

[bobblehead]

So why has no one tried to hire Capers away from GB?

Because he is too old. He has had chances (and been somewhat successful) as a headcoach, but now he is at that age where you generally don't give anyone not named Parcells another shot.

[bobblehead]

Pete Dougherty (GBPG) was on local radio and said the following:

1. He's not buying the spending time with family reason, but its just a general suspicion nothing confirmed yet
2. Questions his effect on players after first year (mentions Perry and D Moses)
3. Says Green was an advocate for Ricky Elmore and Nate Palmer, neither of which were ready to play OLB in the NFL
4. Thinks this would be Capers call more than McCarthy although did not specify why
5. Said he is always crowd favorite at camp because of volume and enthusiasm, but that is not always indicative of quality coaching


One thing not mentioned but I wonder if it played a part, Eric Walden still has a starting job with the Colts D and that D played pretty well.

Did I mention 5 other times that I saw Walden get optioned for first downs twice (that I caught) by alex smith?

[bobblehead]

If you polled rats on which coach they least wanted to see go, it'd be Greene.

Damn.

Doesn't Slocum miss his family?

I'm kinda high on Edgar Bennet to be honest. Maybe we should make him DC, but I still want Tim Lewis.

[denverYooper]

as for walden. i think thats a case of a guy starting because the front office fucked up and paid him starter money. just like brad jones

walden played in 15 games this year and had a whopping 26 tackles and 3 sacks. the same kind of numbers he had his last 3 years in GB

so its not like he went somewhere else and played lights out

The Colts D collapsed in the playoffs like Green Bay's the year before.

[Rutnstrut]

Because he is too old. He has had chances (and been somewhat successful) as a headcoach, but now he is at that age where you generally don't give anyone not named Parcells another shot.

Old and incompetent.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Thought he was a solid coach and I'm sure he stepped down on his own terms. For some reason I'm not all that disappointed he is leaving. Probably because I think the main problems on defense stem from just a pure lack of talent.

[woodbuck27]

Pete Dougherty (GBPG) was on local radio and said the following:

1. He's not buying the spending time with family reason, but its just a general suspicion nothing confirmed yet
2. Questions his effect on players after first year (mentions Perry and D Moses)
3. Says Green was an advocate for Ricky Elmore and Nate Palmer, neither of which were ready to play OLB in the NFL
4. Thinks this would be Capers call more than McCarthy although did not specify why
5. Said he is always crowd favorite at camp because of volume and enthusiasm, but that is not always indicative of quality coaching

One thing not mentioned but I wonder if it played a part, Eric Walden still has a starting job with the Colts D and that D played pretty well.

** From 2009-13 the Green Bay Packers Defense, had a Total of 204 SACKS... (4th Best over that period in the NFL).


** OLB Coach Kevin Greene saw his LBers record 91.5 of those 204 SACKS or 44.8 % of them.


** In 2009 or Kevin Greene's first season with the Packers. As OLB Coach he helped the Green Bay Defense to a No. 2 overall ranking in the NFL. That was the best finish for a Green Bay Packer 'D' since 1996, when that Packer 'D' led the NFL.


** with Kevin Greene’s coaching, LB Clay Matthews earned four straight Pro Bowl selections (2009-12). CM III also became the first player in franchise history to be named...
to the all-star game in each of his first four seasons in the league.

These facts amount to strong credits for any Kevin Greene Resume.

Your going to be missed Coach Kevin Greene.

GO PACK GO !

[Brandon494]

I knew this months ago, Ive friends with Kevin's nephew who told me this would be his last season. Apparently his wife really doesn't like living in Green Bay. He also said that Kevin will be coaching again in Pittsburgh in the near future.

[red]

I knew this months ago, Ive friends with Kevin's nephew who told me this would be his last season. Apparently his wife really doesn't like living in Green Bay. He also said that Kevin will be coaching again in Pittsburgh in the near future.

have you told us this before or am i just having a major case of deja vu?

i think i remember someone saying they knew someone close to someone in the past, like maybe a few years ago, during traning camp

[Brandon494]

Yea I've mentioned it before, sucks for my friend Nick who is also a huge Packers fan. Not only did he go to a lot of Packers games but he got to watch the game on the sidelines and meet all the players.

[Brandon494]

Also anyone questioning Greenes coaching ability is talking out of their ass.

[red]

Yea I've mentioned it before, sucks for my friend Nick who is also a huge Packers fan. Not only did he go to a lot of Packers games but he got to watch the game on the sidelines and meet all the players.

good (not for your friend), i thought i was losing my shit

[KYPack]

I still remember Greenie's pep talk to CMIII in the SB. he was one of the better fire 'em up guys on the sideline. I actually hope that KG's wife wanting out of GB is the reason.

Good local yokel info Brandon.

We need some scuttlebutt to clear things up.

This move has me unsettled.

[Bretsky]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 50m
In 5 years, Greene was given 2 first-rounders (Matthews and Perry) and a second-rounder (Neal). Also FAs, Walden, Moses, Mulumba, Zombo...

Would a failure to develop Perry be enough reason to bounce him? Has Perry been healthy enough to judge?



Everybody has such short memories. Before GB drafted Perry nearly everybody said he was a horrid fit for a 3-4

[Bretsky]

Other than the Special Teams coach the same year, and one S&C coach.

There was a time when people said MM would have difficulty getting good assistants because he didn't show enough loyalty.



One might argue we don't have many of them right now...specially on the defensive side

[mraynrand]

Doesn't Slocum miss his family?

I bet they don't miss him. Wouldn't be surprised if they had a 'Divorce Slocum' Wednesday in that household.

[woodbuck27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Greene

As Coach

Green Bay Packers (2009–2013)

Career highlights and awards

As Player:

** 5× Pro Bowl selection (1989, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998)

**3× First-Team All-Pro selection (1989, 1994, 1996)

**NFL 1990s All-Decade Team

**1996 NEA NFL Defensive Player of the Year

**1996 UPI NFC Defensive Player of the Year

**1996 NFL Alumni NFL Linebacker of the Year

**1998 NFLPA NFC Linebacker of the Year

**1996 NFLPA NFC Linebacker of the Year

**Third most career sacks in NFL history

**NFL Record 160 Sacks by a Linebacker

**Oldest player to lead an NFL season in sacks (1996, age 34, 14.5 sacks)

As Coach

Super Bowl champion (XLV) (as Linebackers coach)

[Rodgers12]

Fuck! I was excited about Greene coaching DeMarcus Ware in GB.

[woodbuck27]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIXDbhNwlC6ObWKdfK3w03Qh0mam_kQ vJ30MvGq4GB9kLGJeEx

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRstceMdSMUzE8QwBIe43ggKubvhp2Nz OHx6b5DDxVdVZYQKj6TsQ

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI35ZC4nf5Q441HS0ghs66p-AEi2a5zORwK82T52mDMZSfQSvzAg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuiExdm58RIyGt7kV4GfeXoWWmuIeBp Glzw19fgwLz2rfbTB4W

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2cv_VIQf_m9skZcE0QX7YQ_-GEuCz3Xe1OiqnwrhsJq__y3029A

THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES KEVIN...YOU'LL BE MISSED.

[woodbuck27]

Fuck! I was excited about Greene coaching DeMarcus Ware in GB.

Check out Post # 87.

I'm all chewed up over the loss of this MAN.

My stomach has churned ever since I learned the "shocking News".

I thought at first it was a really bad joke. It feels like someone I really loved died.

He always seemed like the "only REAL MAN" coaching on the sidelines.

My heart is in my throat posting this.

[bobblehead]

So, when our defense rebounds to finish next year ranked #12 with all the same players (basically) are all the over reactors on this board going to conclude that KG was the problem?

[smuggler]

Yes, and they'll be wrong. If anything, it'd be health, development, and possibly a draft gem that would cause that kind of turnaround.

[pbmax]

Everybody has such short memories. Before GB drafted Perry nearly everybody said he was a horrid fit for a 3-4

I thought you were in banking not PR. Horrid is not a synonym for "better fit as a 4-3 end". Scouts are often wrong about this stuff.

The Packers do not need him to project fantastic as a coverage guy. They needed run support/edge setting and pass rush. He does those two things pretty well.

In coverage, he needs to play leverage to force his coverage guy to a spot, which is simply a mental process and positioning, much less challenging than forcing LeBron to his left. Or he needs to sit in a zone and make an open field tackle. He doesn't need to be Deion.

The Steelers guy, LaMaar Woodley, is exactly the prototype. He was a DE at Michigan and isn't a coverage maven. The Steelers got him in the 2nd round I believe because he was a tweener, no one agreed on his best fit. Same deal with Perry.

[pbmax]

Serious question: according to this, http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=12801&is_corp=1

Green had six coaching internships while he was between careers, before landing a job in Green Bay after an interview with M3. I have read that elsewhere, so I am pretty sure its the case. Did he think of this as a part-time gig until finally getting serious or did it take him six years to get hired?

Capers offers an explanation that it was KG's choice in one instance:


“I think at that point in time, he really, really wanted to do it,” said Capers, who gave Greene one of those internships while working for the Miami Dolphins and coach Nick Saban – then went to bat for Greene with Saban, only to see Greene decide not to get into coaching at the time.

[mraynrand]

People sometimes forget, don't know, or can't possibly empathize with how much time these coaches put in. Some of these guys put in 80+ hours a week. Try doing that for 1 year, then 2 then 10 and see how you hold up.

[channtheman]

People sometimes forget, don't know, or can't possibly empathize with how much time these coaches put in. Some of these guys put in 80+ hours a week. Try doing that for 1 year, then 2 then 10 and see how you hold up.

Right. And if he has saved enough money to not work for a few years, or ever again, than good for him. Go spend time with your family.

Does anyone have any idea how much these coaches make?

[Patler]

Also anyone questioning Greenes coaching ability is talking out of their ass.

Couldn't we say the same thing about anyone who says he is a great coach? Seriously, do any of us really know if Greene is any good or not as a coach? I think the evidence is conflicting for Greene. On the positive side you have Matthews, Neal's transition this year, I think the play of Zombo as an URFA. On the negative side you have the slow development of Perry, poor performances of OLBs against SF (including Mattews in the playoff game last year), and the general lack of impact from all the other OLBs who have come through GB. I have little feel for how much credit he deserves for the positive, or blame for the negatives. I'm willing to be convinced.

I think Edgar Bennett has shown positive impact time and time again going all the way back to the year he lost starting RBs almost weekly and had FAs up to speed by the next week. Back after back reduced their fumbles and became better, even very, very good blockers under his coaching. The WRs show similar development.

I like the passion that Greene has shown, but really have no idea whether or not he is an effective coach.

[Brandon494]

Of course Palter has to nick pick every comment I make. Besides Matthews what talent has he had to work with at OLB? It's unfair to judge Perry's progression when he can't even stay healthy. Stop trying to start an argument for the fuck of it. Before Greene walked away I didn't hear one person question his coaching ability.

[Brandon494]

As far as Bennett look at the talent he has gotten to work with compared to what Greene had.

[mraynrand]

It's unfair to judge Perry's progression when he can't even stay healthy.

Injury Prone!

[Patler]

Of course Palter has to nick pick every comment I make. Besides Matthews what talent has he had to work with at OLB? It's unfair to judge Perry's progression when he can't even stay healthy. Stop trying to start an argument for the fuck of it. Before Greene walked away I didn't hear one person question his coaching ability.

Nit picking? You made an awfully assertive statement about his coaching ability, stating that no one should even question his coaching ability. I think it is up to debate, for the reasons I said. How is that nit picking? Maybe he is the best assistant they have. Maybe he is the worst. I really have no idea.

Is this a big loss for the Packers?
Is this a step forward for the Packers?
I really don't know, but I think it is an interesting question for the off season..

[bobblehead]

Of course Palter has to nick pick every comment I make. Besides Matthews what talent has he had to work with at OLB? It's unfair to judge Perry's progression when he can't even stay healthy. Stop trying to start an argument for the fuck of it. Before Greene walked away I didn't hear one person question his coaching ability.

I refer you to your sig...sort of. That what we do at packerrats.

[Patler]

As far as Bennett look at the talent he has gotten to work with compared to what Greene had.

Bennett caught my interest in 2005. He started the season with Green, Davenport and Fisher. Davenport went to IR and Rashard Lee was signed. Green went to IR and Walt Williams was signed. Fisher was hurt and Gado was signed. Williams went to IR. Noah Herron was signed. Rashard Lee went to IR. Gado was hurt and missed the last two games. Green began the seasons as the starter/primary ball carrier, then it was Davenport, then Fisher, then Lee, then Gado, then Herron. RB's were dropping so fast that an article described how several weeks in a row Bennett met newly signed ball carriers on Tuesday and had to have them ready to play significant snaps on Sunday. The article described how he simplified the passing game for them, and for the most part they did well in protection.

Two years later he began working with Brandon Jackson, who was a terrible blocker, and made him a solid third down back by the time he left as a free agent. With WRs the last three years he weathered a lot of injuries last year and this, has Boykin playing better than I hoped, and seems to get the best out of his guys. He Just seems like an effective coach all the way around, looking at it strictly from the outside as a fan.

[woodbuck27]

Bennett caught my interest in 2005. He started the season with Green, Davenport and Fisher. Davenport went to IR and Rashard Lee was signed. Green went to IR and Walt Williams was signed. Fisher was hurt and Gado was signed. Williams went to IR. Noah Herron was signed. Rashard Lee went to IR. Gado was hurt and missed the last two games. Green began the seasons as the starter/primary ball carrier, then it was Davenport, then Fisher, then Lee, then Gado, then Herron. RB's were dropping so fast that an article described how several weeks in a row Bennett met newly signed ball carriers on Tuesday and had to have them ready to play significant snaps on Sunday. The article described how he simplified the passing game for them, and for the most part they did well in protection.

Two years later he began working with Brandon Jackson, who was a terrible blocker, and made him a solid third down back by the time he left as a free agent. With WRs the last three years he weathered a lot of injuries last year and this, has Boykin playing better than I hoped, and seems to get the best out of his guys. He Just seems like an effective coach all the way around, looking at it strictly from the outside as a fan.

Negating Brandon Jackson (above) In the 2005 season Edgar Bennet coached seven (7) RB's !

WOW !)

[woodbuck27]

So, when our defense rebounds to finish next year ranked #12 with all the same players (basically) are all the over reactors on this board going to conclude that KG was the problem?


Aren't we allowed to simply feel any degree of emotional pain over this loss?

Damn ! It's just that and me bobblehead. I'm NOT writing for this board.

I'm feeling shitty over the loss of Kevin Greene and your certain sarcastic lack of compassion isn't helping me. Maybe others here do feel the same. From my view Kevin Greene 'only' coach that even closely resembled anything even looking half alive on the Packer sideline.

That he has decided that he has to get himself; his wife and children out of Green Bay.

For my Packer fan 'ness', that's a LOSS !

It's ... just ... that.

You make light of it as "You've" decided to.

Your post suggests that any improvemet in the Packer 'D' in 2014 is a reflecton of the poor quality of coaching of "one Man ... Kevin Greene". How fricken sick is that to even suggest!?

Think again please. Before you "post down" to anyone that approved of Kevin Greene.

I'm one of the members here that got there bobblehead. I've got my eyes open. I've got more open as I persevere as a Packer fan. Such nonsense pisses me off.

Any Packerrat ( Packer fan) that enjoyed what Kevin Greene "obviously brought to the table" , every fricken' day of his fricken' time as a Packer coach. Count the years bobblehead. That Packer fan...deserves to feel.... and express loss.

When Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy get their ass's canned out of Green Bay. I'll feel respectfully for them. Have they done anything good?

They sure have and so did Kevin Greene.

bobblehead:

Are you 'someone' that continually undresses someone even while they lie in their grave?

Ask of yourself that question. Answer to yourself ... that question.

Maybe? dig deep... dig somewhere deep inside of you...Try to give members here some decency and respect for their feelings.

Moreso... Try harder to demonstrate some decency... maybe muster a tad of respect for all that Coach Kevin Greene tried to at least give the Green Bay Packer organization.

"YOU" ........... just got your ass kicked.

[Fritz]

As far as Bennett look at the talent he has gotten to work with compared to what Greene had.

Really? Before Lacey was drafted, the Packers had guys like Brandon Jackson, Alex Green, the sixth round pick James Starks, Ryan Grant (who was obtained for a sixth round pick). How is that front line talent? Not a one was a first round pick, and people on this board bitched about TT moving back and back and "settling" for Lacey.

I don't like the slant the JSO is offering which is pure speculation - that Greene may have left because he was given so little talent to work with.

The only other position group I can think of that has two first-rounders to work with is the offensive line, and both Sherrod and Bulaga have been unable to stay on the field, as Perry has.

The article I'm thinking of is the one in which the author - Silverstein, I think - mentions all these dregs that Greene was given to work with, as if TT invested nothing in the position and Greene was tired of it. Buried deep in the article is the "oh, by the way, yeah, he had Matthews and another first rounder,Perry, but was hurt." So somehow that one doesn't count. And Neal, a former second round pick - I suppose he doesn't count, either.

Look at other position groups. How many of the receivers are first rounders? How many of the cornerbacks? The tight ends?

No position group can be made up of all first and second rounders. So to pretend that maybe the Packers drove Greene away because they expected him to make silk purses out of sows' ears is too much.

Sure, these guys are mostly converting from DE, but as others have pointed out, that's typical in the NFL in general as few college teams run a 3-4.

My criticism is not of Greene. Not at all. I wish he were still coaching; I liked him.

But I am criticizing the way the JSO is trying to slant this, as another aggregeous error made by TT and MM that drove Greene away.

[Patler]

Really? Before Lacey was drafted, the Packers had guys like Brandon Jackson, Alex Green, the sixth round pick James Starks, Ryan Grant (who was obtained for a sixth round pick). How is that front line talent? Not a one was a first round pick, and people on this board bitched about TT moving back and back and "settling" for Lacey.

I don't like the slant the JSO is offering which is pure speculation - that Greene may have left because he was given so little talent to work with.

The only other position group I can think of that has two first-rounders to work with is the offensive line, and both Sherrod and Bulaga have been unable to stay on the field, as Perry has.

The article I'm thinking of is the one in which the author - Silverstein, I think - mentions all these dregs that Greene was given to work with, as if TT invested nothing in the position and Greene was tired of it. Buried deep in the article is the "oh, by the way, yeah, he had Matthews and another first rounder,Perry, but was hurt." So somehow that one doesn't count. And Neal, a former second round pick - I suppose he doesn't count, either.

Look at other position groups. How many of the receivers are first rounders? How many of the cornerbacks? The tight ends?

No position group can be made up of all first and second rounders. So to pretend that maybe the Packers drove Greene away because they expected him to make silk purses out of sows' ears is too much.

Sure, these guys are mostly converting from DE, but as others have pointed out, that's typical in the NFL in general as few college teams run a 3-4.

My criticism is not of Greene. Not at all. I wish he were still coaching; I liked him.

But I am criticizing the way the JSO is trying to slant this, as another aggregeous error made by TT and MM that drove Greene away.

Ya, I thought the article had a peculiar slant, too. Besides that two first rounders and the second round pick, Greene had a guy he virtually hand-picked, according to articles.

Campen is given mostly LTs to work with, and several former TEs with limited OL experience before the draft. What have the DB coaches been given? Mostly a bunch of undrafted guys (Shields, Williams, Bush, Jennings, Richardson, Nixon, Banjo). By comparison, OLB has been given a lot of attention in the draft. There are 53 roster spots and only seven draft picks each year.

[Bretsky]

So, when our defense rebounds to finish next year ranked #12 with all the same players (basically) are all the over reactors on this board going to conclude that KG was the problem?


If the defense finished #12 my guess is I'll note that TT finally addresses some glaringly obvious shortcomings after we have won the Super Bowl

[Joemailman]

I come down on the side of Greene having not been given enough to work with. Since being given Matthews, he hasn't been given much. Perry, who's been hurt, didn't want to play OLB in the first place. You build the core of your team in the middle rounds, and there TT has ignored the OLB position. Since 2009, TT has had 22 picks in rounds 2-5, and hasn't used 1 to strengthen the OLB position. Mike Neal doesn't count. He was drafted to play DE. The picks by position:

OL: 5
RB: 4
DL: 4
DB: 5
TE: 2
WR: 1
ILB: 1

I wouldn't be surprised if Greene got tired of having so little to work with.

[MJZiggy]

Of course Palter has to nick pick every comment I make. Besides Matthews what talent has he had to work with at OLB? It's unfair to judge Perry's progression when he can't even stay healthy. Stop trying to start an argument for the fuck of it. Before Greene walked away I didn't hear one person question his coaching ability.

That brings up an interesting thought. How do you judge talent in a football squad? We know that Matthews is talented. But with the rest of the guys, how much of their performance is talent, and how much of it is coaching? How many times have we seen a guy play lights out, get a contract from a different team and not play as well? Oftentimes we make excuses for that, saying he's gotten older, he's slipping or whatever, but I think "how much talent" a coach has to work with is a lot more subjective than we like to think it is.

[woodbuck27]

Really? Before Lacey was drafted, the Packers had guys like Brandon Jackson, Alex Green, the sixth round pick James Starks, Ryan Grant (who was obtained for a sixth round pick). How is that front line talent? Not a one was a first round pick, and people on this board bitched about TT moving back and back and "settling" for Lacey.

I don't like the slant the JSO is offering which is pure speculation - that Greene may have left because he was given so little talent to work with.

The only other position group I can think of that has two first-rounders to work with is the offensive line, and both Sherrod and Bulaga have been unable to stay on the field, as Perry has.

The article I'm thinking of is the one in which the author - Silverstein, I think - mentions all these dregs that Greene was given to work with, as if TT invested nothing in the position and Greene was tired of it. Buried deep in the article is the "oh, by the way, yeah, he had Matthews and another first rounder,Perry, but was hurt." So somehow that one doesn't count. And Neal, a former second round pick - I suppose he doesn't count, either.

Look at other position groups. How many of the receivers are first rounders? How many of the cornerbacks? The tight ends?

No position group can be made up of all first and second rounders. So to pretend that maybe the Packers drove Greene away because they expected him to make silk purses out of sows' ears is too much.

Sure, these guys are mostly converting from DE, but as others have pointed out, that's typical in the NFL in general as few college teams run a 3-4.

My criticism is not of Greene. Not at all. I wish he were still coaching; I liked him.

But I am criticizing the way the JSO is trying to slant this, as another aggregeous error made by TT and MM that drove Greene away.

So what's new Fritz? :!:

Have the Wisconsin Sports Journalists ever been accused of "pounding too much sand up Green Bay Packer managements ass's" ?

Your points are solid. Then there's this:

The problem as has been identified as TT and MM and the coaching staff trying to insist upon drafting ie ... DE's and turning (developing) them into OLB's. Insisting on using square pegs in round holes.

Any prospect is fraught with risk; but why? take it to::

Back in your own face risk? TT has to make it easier on himself. If it's simply him and picking BPA..by the way that's NOT really the case. TT is hopefully more rational than going #21 overall >>> Offense (ie TE) in this next draft. If a legitimate help ie DT, ILB or Safety is sitting right there 2-3 picks lower on his board.

The press/media and Kevin Greene's decision to depart Green Bay:

For the media to even speculate why Kevin Greene left beyond what he's already expressed. Is bullshit speculation that isn't uncommon in Wisconsin. That decision is driven by a need to take too much to the dramatic side and sell that to a craving to remain ignorant "or an over emotional drama hungry public.

Drama sells !

We are members here @ Packerrats to discover better. Packerats may do so awkwardly and bang heads to get there but we will arrive in terms of most issues. ;-)

That's why above all else we should all be grateful for this cutting edge opportunity.

Packerrats.

GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

I come down on the side of Greene having not been given enough to work with. Since being given Matthews, he hasn't been given much. Perry, who's been hurt, didn't want to play OLB in the first place. You build the core of your team in the middle rounds, and there TT has ignored the OLB position. Since 2009, TT has had 22 picks in rounds 2-5, and hasn't used 1 to strengthen the OLB position. Mike Neal doesn't count. He was drafted to play DE. The picks by position:

OL: 5
RB: 4
DL: 4
DB: 5
TE: 2
WR: 1
ILB: 1

I wouldn't be surprised if Greene got tired of having so little to work with.

He is responsible for TWO starting spots, four roster spaces. The OL is 5 and 10. DB is 4 and 9. DL is 3 and 6-8.

Of other groups, here are the number of first rounders in each:

OLB: 2
RB: 0
TE: 0
WR: 0
ILB: 1

Two first round picks. For two starting spots. Only the QB position has a higher percentage. If he left because not enough attention is focused on his two spots in the draft, he will be awfully disappointed in every other team in the League. Spoon is on the radio here weekly and he seems like a nice, funny, self-deprecating guy. But his head on some issues about the Packers is just chock full or nonsense.

[bobblehead]

Bennett caught my interest in 2005. He started the season with Green, Davenport and Fisher. Davenport went to IR and Rashard Lee was signed. Green went to IR and Walt Williams was signed. Fisher was hurt and Gado was signed. Williams went to IR. Noah Herron was signed. Rashard Lee went to IR. Gado was hurt and missed the last two games. Green began the seasons as the starter/primary ball carrier, then it was Davenport, then Fisher, then Lee, then Gado, then Herron. RB's were dropping so fast that an article described how several weeks in a row Bennett met newly signed ball carriers on Tuesday and had to have them ready to play significant snaps on Sunday. The article described how he simplified the passing game for them, and for the most part they did well in protection.

Two years later he began working with Brandon Jackson, who was a terrible blocker, and made him a solid third down back by the time he left as a free agent. With WRs the last three years he weathered a lot of injuries last year and this, has Boykin playing better than I hoped, and seems to get the best out of his guys. He Just seems like an effective coach all the way around, looking at it strictly from the outside as a fan.

I am a huge fan of Bennet as well. Edgar has done it with different guys over several years. That isn't an accident.

BTW, to those that think its the RB not the OL, I refer you to the season that all those guys looked good toting the stone.

[bobblehead]

Really? Before Lacey was drafted, the Packers had guys like Brandon Jackson, Alex Green, the sixth round pick James Starks, Ryan Grant (who was obtained for a sixth round pick). How is that front line talent? Not a one was a first round pick, and people on this board bitched about TT moving back and back and "settling" for Lacey.

I don't like the slant the JSO is offering which is pure speculation - that Greene may have left because he was given so little talent to work with.

The only other position group I can think of that has two first-rounders to work with is the offensive line, and both Sherrod and Bulaga have been unable to stay on the field, as Perry has.

The article I'm thinking of is the one in which the author - Silverstein, I think - mentions all these dregs that Greene was given to work with, as if TT invested nothing in the position and Greene was tired of it. Buried deep in the article is the "oh, by the way, yeah, he had Matthews and another first rounder,Perry, but was hurt." So somehow that one doesn't count. And Neal, a former second round pick - I suppose he doesn't count, either.

Look at other position groups. How many of the receivers are first rounders? How many of the cornerbacks? The tight ends?

No position group can be made up of all first and second rounders. So to pretend that maybe the Packers drove Greene away because they expected him to make silk purses out of sows' ears is too much.

Sure, these guys are mostly converting from DE, but as others have pointed out, that's typical in the NFL in general as few college teams run a 3-4.

My criticism is not of Greene. Not at all. I wish he were still coaching; I liked him.

But I am criticizing the way the JSO is trying to slant this, as another aggregeous error made by TT and MM that drove Greene away.

They slanted it 3 different ways in the same article. This is known as throwing shit against a wall. When one of the 3 turn out they can say "I told you so".

[bobblehead]

He is responsible for TWO starting spots, four roster spaces. The OL is 5 and 10. DB is 4 and 9. DL is 3 and 6-8.

Of other groups, here are the number of first rounders in each:

OLB: 2
RB: 0
TE: 0
WR: 0
ILB: 1

Two first round picks. For two starting spots. Only the QB position has a higher percentage. If he left because not enough attention is focused on his two spots in the draft, he will be awfully disappointed in every other team in the League. Spoon is on the radio here weekly and he seems like a nice, funny, self-deprecating guy. But his head on some issues about the Packers is just chock full or nonsense.

But pb...remember what has been argued here. Perry doesn't count. Neither does Neal. Pretty much anything that supports your point doesn't count for some odd reason. I think Mathews doesn't count either because he has a bad hammy. When you discount the 2 first rounders and the second rounder for the 4 roster spots the man has been given shit to work with. TT should be ashamed of running off KG.

[woodbuck27]

I come down on the side of Greene having not been given enough to work with. Since being given Matthews, he hasn't been given much. Perry, who's been hurt, didn't want to play OLB in the first place. You build the core of your team in the middle rounds, and there TT has ignored the OLB position. Since 2009, TT has had 22 picks in rounds 2-5, and hasn't used 1 to strengthen the OLB position. Mike Neal doesn't count. He was drafted to play DE. The picks by position:

OL: 5
RB: 4
DL: 4
DB: 5
TE: 2
WR: 1
ILB: 1

I wouldn't be surprised if Greene got tired of having so little to work with.

A well researched therefore honest post:

Congratulations Joe.

Repped. :-D

[woodbuck27]

That brings up an interesting thought. How do you judge talent in a football squad? We know that Matthews is talented. But with the rest of the guys, how much of their performance is talent, and how much of it is coaching? How many times have we seen a guy play lights out, get a contract from a different team and not play as well? Oftentimes we make excuses for that, saying he's gotten older, he's slipping or whatever, but I think "how much talent" a coach has to work with is a lot more subjective than we like to think it is.

An excellent question mj.

I have to meditate on that one. You're challenging me.

[woodbuck27]

He is responsible for TWO starting spots, four roster spaces. The OL is 5 and 10. DB is 4 and 9. DL is 3 and 6-8.

Of other groups, here are the number of first rounders in each:

OLB: 2
RB: 0
TE: 0
WR: 0
ILB: 1

Two first round picks. For two starting spots. Only the QB position has a higher percentage. If he left because not enough attention is focused on his two spots in the draft, he will be awfully disappointed in every other team in the League. Spoon is on the radio here weekly and he seems like a nice, funny, self-deprecating guy. But his head on some issues about the Packers is just chock full or nonsense.

Nick Perry wasn't ever a LBER before being pushed into that slot by TT and Dom capers
Before TT drafted Nick Perry we were concerned about TT picking him. . . Dom Capers scheming with a 3-4 'D' MAX and 2-Front ' LESS RUN DEFENSE ...Nickel 'D'.

If it's a 3-4 Base then show a 3-4 Base and stop weakening that predictably. It's so obviously weak and predictable the Opponents HC and his offensive coach's get a break playing the Green Bay Packers.

Our little 'd' deefeeense...in 3 Seasons has gone from Weakening >>> Weak >>> [B]Porously WEAK !

The Green Bay Packers deefeeense is easy for any talented Offense to run over and victimize with the pass.

As it's going ....next season isn't going to see it achieve much growth and with the situation and UFA.

See CB Shields ... See 4 players on the DL ...."the Hunchback is exhausted ringing ALARMS"

[pbmax]

Nick Perry wasn't ever a LBER before being pushed into that slot by TT and Dom capers
Before TT drafted Nick Perry we were concerned about TT picking him. . . Dom Capers scheming with a 3-4 'D' MAX and [B]2-Front ' LESS RUN DEFENSE ...Nickel 'D'.

Well, you probably want to inform Demarcus Ware, Terrell Suggs, LaMarr Woodley, Shaun Phillips and Robert Mathis to stop playing OLB so well since each had to affect a change in position during their NFL careers from DE to OLB.

Changing a position is a common occurrence in the NFL, though its far more common in college. Coversions at 3-4 OLB are the rule, not the exception at the Pro level.

When the defensive players in the Packers scheme are termed mis-matches or poor fits, it is not the position that is being questioned, its the match of skills to responsibilities. Perry has the skills they require at OLB. Whether he succeeds is up to him and his coach.

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 15h
Among the numbers, #Packers allowed 6.74 yards per rush with D. Jones on the field. Second-worst among NFL DEs.

Maybe the Jones/Neal switch was more Jones related than Neal.

[Joemailman]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 15h
Among the numbers, #Packers allowed 6.74 yards per rush with D. Jones on the field. Second-worst among NFL DEs.

Maybe the Jones/Neal switch was more Jones related than Neal.

Wasn't Jones mainly on the field during obvious passing situations? If so, wouldn't the other defensive personnel on the field (nickel and dime package), possibly have as much to do with the numbers as the play of Jones? How often did he actually line up at DE?

What did you mean by the Jones/Neal switch?

[pbmax]

Wasn't Jones mainly on the field during obvious passing situations? If so, wouldn't the other defensive personnel on the field (nickel and dime package), possibly have as much to do with the numbers as the play of Jones? How often did he actually line up at DE?

What did you mean by the Jones/Neal switch?

Can't read the article, so I can only guess at the details. Jones played mainly in pass rush situations in nickel and dime. Yes, a player's +/- kind of ranking does depend on others but that is kind of the point, to see what combos work well together (just guessing they are presenting plus minus info here) and where a weakness occurs. So Jones plus something leaks yardage worse than other combos. Staff then need to determine if its situational (draw play on 3rd and 18) or from his assignments.

Toward the end of the season, in nickel and dime, Neal would move to DT and Jones played standup DE. Jones did this versus the 49ers but it was due to injuries at OLB in that case.

[mraynrand]

Two years later he began working with Brandon Jackson, who was a terrible blocker, and made him a solid third down back by the time he left as a free agent. With WRs the last three years he weathered a lot of injuries last year and this, has Boykin playing better than I hoped, and seems to get the best out of his guys. He Just seems like an effective coach all the way around, looking at it strictly from the outside as a fan.

It's interesting though that Jackson couldn't play well enough to stay on with Cleveland (he lost a season due to injury - Injury Prone! - got ten touches in 2012, and then was cut the following preseason). But even after they traded away Richardson, there was absolutely zero interest. Brought in McGahee and a FA rook instead. So the evaluation spectrum goes from Bennett training him very well to play in the Packers system (and is a great coach) or he didn't really make much out of second round pick and he only thrived because of the Packers' system (Bennett is lousy).

[bobblehead]

Well, you probably want to inform Demarcus Ware, Terrell Suggs, LaMarr Woodley, Shaun Phillips and Robert Mathis to stop playing OLB so well since each had to affect a change in position during their NFL careers from DE to OLB.

Changing a position is a common occurrence in the NFL, though its far more common in college. Coversions at 3-4 OLB are the rule, not the exception at the Pro level.

When the defensive players in the Packers scheme are termed mis-matches or poor fits, it is not the position that is being questioned, its the match of skills to responsibilities. Perry has the skills they require at OLB. Whether he succeeds is up to him and his coach.

And Clay Mathews

[Brandon494]

Lmao whatever you say bro, not going to even waste my time arguing with you. IMO we just lost a great OLB coach and I'll leave it at that.

[Brandon494]

BTW no one is saying Bennett is overrated he is a great coach as well, I just believe he has gotten more talent to work with. As far as when he coached RB it's pretty common for a no name RB to have a couple of good games in this league. Happens on every team especially when you have All-Pro QBs behind center. How many no name players break out at OLB? Comparing apples and oranges.

[pbmax]

BTW no one is saying Bennett is overrated he is a great coach as well, I just believe he has gotten more talent to work with. As far as when he coached RB it's pretty common for a no name RB to have a couple of good games in this league. Happens on every team especially when you have All-Pro QBs behind center. How many no name players break out at OLB? Comparing apples and oranges.

It does happen. James Harrison. Dumerville was a 4th round pick.

I don't think this is evidence that Green can't coach. But its not clear he is anything but average.

I suspect he coached Capers D and his personal approach well. He seems committed enough for that. But could he offer something to a player who had a slightly different role or physical characteristics? Did he offer anything in film breakdown or scheme prep?

We just don't know and the on-field evidence is mixed. He did seem to do OK with players in their rookie year (Jones, Zombo, Moses, Mulumba) though not all (Palmer).

[pbmax]

BTW, Hoody Genius lost his best cover corner and surrendered 26 points on the road and could not get the ball back to his offense. Let the calls for his head commence.

[pbmax]

That might be the ugliest trophy in sports.

[ThunderDan]

BTW, Hoody Genius lost his best cover corner and surrendered 26 points on the road and could not get the ball back to his offense. Let the calls for his head commence.

Their D also gave up more yards per game then ours.

[Patler]

Lmao whatever you say bro, not going to even waste my time arguing with you. IMO we just lost a great OLB coach and I'll leave it at that.

Could be, I don't know. I like his passion, that's for sure.
Why do you think he is a great coach?

Again, I will not argue that he is good or bad, I really don't know one way or the other.

[pbmax]

Their D also gave up more yards per game then ours.

+1

This message board game is fun but next year I would rather win outright, not just the argument after. :)

[digitaldean]

That might be the ugliest trophy in sports.
If you are referring to the conference title trophies, yes, I agree. Looks like something from a Tiffany's clearance sale.

The old Halas and Hunt trophies had some heft to them and were much better looking than these cheesy things.

[Joemailman]

BTW, Hoody Genius lost his best cover corner and surrendered 26 points on the road and could not get the ball back to his offense. Let the calls for his head commence.

579!

[pbmax]

If you are referring to the conference title trophies, yes, I agree. Looks like something from a Tiffany's clearance sale.

The old Halas and Hunt trophies had some heft to them and were much better looking than these cheesy things.

I think I may have said those were no great shakes, didn't they have a wood base? And I may have even been hopeful about the idea for a redesign.

But that redesign needs to be ditched.

[Guiness]

If you are referring to the conference title trophies, yes, I agree. Looks like something from a Tiffany's clearance sale.

The old Halas and Hunt trophies had some heft to them and were much better looking than these cheesy things.

Indeed

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kDQ_gSyMf7U/TThj4Q8hLqI/AAAAAAAAEHM/1QfC1Ai7VPo/s1600/1996_HalasTrophy.jpg

OR

http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/sports_impact/photo/charles-woodson-c515afe674e1cdd6.jpg

A hollow football? Sometimes change just for the sake of change is not good.

[Joemailman]

Indeed

A hollow football? Sometimes change just for the sake of change is not good.

Maybe it's fitting that a trophy named after a Bear is hollow.

[bobblehead]

BTW, Hoody Genius lost his best cover corner and surrendered 26 points on the road and could not get the ball back to his offense. Let the calls for his head commence.

Fire the LOSER!!! Yea, I would say that he was facing a daunting task of stopping Manning though. Not the same as stopping Kapercrap.

[Bretsky]

BTW, Hoody Genius lost his best cover corner and surrendered 26 points on the road and could not get the ball back to his offense. Let the calls for his head commence.


Hoody Genius the Coach has been failed by Hoody Genius the GM. Once Talib went down that was the dagger. He switched to the only possible defense...to try to contain Denver. He didn't have the numbers to have a prayer covering those guys. Not many teams do but NE's secondary is average at best with Talib and Horrid w/o him. Pat Kirwin just got off NFL network saying this was Hoody Genius best year of coaching and the team really shouldn't have been on the same field as Denver. Look at the weapons. NE hardly had a guy who would play as a WR or TE for Denver. And they somehow reincarned LaGarrett Blount, a guy nobody in the NFL really wanted. And NE had already lost good talent for the season on defense. Hoody Genius the coach may be the best ever. But Hoody Genius should fire himself as the GM and bring back Scott Pioli

[Bretsky]

Could be, I don't know. I like his passion, that's for sure.
Why do you think he is a great coach?

Again, I will not argue that he is good or bad, I really don't know one way or the other.



Gotta agree with Patler; I don't know if he was good or bad.
I must admit he was about my favorite coach on the Packers so I'm unhappy to see him leave.
But he was a fiery entertaining charismatic guy; kind of like the personality I wish we had as a DC

But I don't know if he was a good coach.

[woodbuck27]

Indeed

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kDQ_gSyMf7U/TThj4Q8hLqI/AAAAAAAAEHM/1QfC1Ai7VPo/s1600/1996_HalasTrophy.jpg

OR

http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/sports_impact/photo/charles-woodson-c515afe674e1cdd6.jpg

A hollow football? Sometimes change just for the sake of change is not good.

I like the T-Shirt.

The trophy looks something like the USS Enterprise (XCV 330):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/81/USS_Enterprise_%28XCV_330%29.jpg/330px-USS_Enterprise_%28XCV_330%29.jpg

[mraynrand]

I like the T-Shirt.

The trophy looks something like the USS Enterprise (XCV 330):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/81/USS_Enterprise_%28XCV_330%29.jpg/330px-USS_Enterprise_%28XCV_330%29.jpg

repped for totally obscure reference from STAR TREK: THE SLOW MOTION PICTURE