how "green" were the members on special teams this year?

[red]

there's been a lot of talk about how the turnover at the bottom of the roster (due to all the injuries), was the reason why our special teams coverage units were so poor this year. ignoring the fact that they are horrid every year

does someone have a list of the guys that were on the coverage units, so we can see who was where and when?

when i started to think about it last night i got to thinking that maybe they weren't as "green" as some people think they were

bush, he's been in the unit for a few years now, not green
mulumba i think is a member, he would have been doing it all season
francois has been in the unit i think for the last couple of years
ryan taylor was on that unit all year
banjo i believe was part of the unit all year

is kuhn a member of coverage, or just kick returns? he's been there forever

does anyone have the names of the rest, or an idea?

keep in mind we're only looking for about 9 guys. crosby/mashtay and goode take up 2 of the 11 spots each time

i'm starting to think that the special teams units weren't just made up of the guys we signed each week off the practice squad, they were guys mostly on the practice squad the whole time and the "injury" excuse is just a way to cover slocums ass for yet another year

anybody got names they remember being in there. or video?

patler?

[woodbuck27]

I'll get on that right now red.

[woodbuck27]

red to check this out:

A) Go to Packers .Cm 2-13 schedule:

http://www.packers.com/gameday/schedule.html

B) Click on Game Day on the RHS for any 2013 game.

ie Thanksgiving day and Packers @ Lions and your here:

http://www.packers.com/gameday/game/2013/regular13

C) Now Click on Gamebook (PDF) located just below the Box Score and RHS.

Your now here:

http://www.packers.com/assets/docs/gamebooks/2013/131128-gamebook-lions.pdf

Scroll down to get ie if you find it useful ...the players inactive list...and scroll further down to get the Green Bay Packers ...Defensive Stats...and ST Stat's.

You'll see who on ST's made tackles and Assisted tackles >>> more. This isn't exactly telling you who exactly worked where ie on punt and/or KO coverage but all the same it's useful in terms of RESULTS and ST's.

I discovered that from the Week 9 game when the Packers lost Aaron Rodgers and going forward ...The main performers on ST's ie getting results were:

Jarrett Bush Tackles in 6 games.

MD Jennings and Davon house...Tackles in 4 games.

Micah Hyde tackles in 3 games.

Chris Banjo; Mike Neal; Morgan Burnett; Andy Mulumba; Ryan Taylor; Sean Richardson; V. Alyewe; and Brett Goode...all active on ST's and tackles in 2 games.

Other's that made a tackle on ST's Jamari Lattimore; Jarrett Boykin; J. Stoneburner; Nate Palmer and John Kuhn all had at least one game on ST's with a tackle.


GO PACKERS !

[red]

so, kinda like i though

the special teams wasn't all that effected by guys having to step up into starting roles in other department

looks like it was about the same group of guys that were playing special teams all season

so can we now say that the claim of injuries effecting special teams is a MYTH?

we had starters playing ST, we didn't have a bunch of junk out there, although some of those starters are junk (jennings, burnett)

[woodbuck27]

so, kinda like i though

the special teams wasn't all that effected by guys having to step up into starting roles in other department

looks like it was about the same group of guys that were playing special teams all season

so can we now say that the claim of injuries effecting special teams is a MYTH?

we had starters playing ST, we didn't have a bunch of junk out there, although some of those starters are junk (jennings, burnett)

It doesn't matter.

Whatever the other side says to defend TT and MM is obviously good enough. Mediocrity is acceptable as long as the Green Bay Packers win the NFCN.

Wanting more is simply looked upon as an unlikely result. All that matters is a solid support for the Green Bay Packers and an almost "military style belief and dedication" to the Packer GM and HC.

Losing over and over again to the San Fran 49ers will turn around one day.

I mean I do get it. I want to get what I desire sooner than the timetable that the Packers GM and HC don't seem to have. All they ever need to do is place that Super Bowl ring on their finger and their convinced their winners.

The 'only way' this is corrected is if all Packer fans end up collectively suffering and even then it will be..just another season. Just one more as we're only four season's now focused on getting this right. We're so close with the BEST player in the NFL ...it'll happen.

The classic horse shoe punch... How many NFL Teams have won or repeated in a Super Bowl in the last four (4) seasons !?

That Super Bowl win is like ....a 5-8 season lease on anything approaching absolute near Detroit Lion (slash) Cleveland Brown futility and based in any excuse (s) that jstify TT's and MM's job.

See Detroit >>>see Cleveland. See >>>so many other NFL franchises. Well see 28 other NFL franchises/organizations.

I get it.

I'm incredibly happy to be a Green Bay Packer fan. I've had to be patient through one stretch of 29 years between the Green Bay Packers winning Super Bowls...or Super Bowls II and XXXI.

I still want to see the Packers win another Super Bowl in two-three years. I'm just driven that way.

GO PACK GO !

[mraynrand]

so, kinda like i thought...the special teams wasn't all that effected by guys having to step up into starting roles in other department

I have no idea how you draw this conclusion from the guys Woody listed:

Andy Mulumba
Ryan Taylor
Sean Richardson
V. Alyewe
Brett Goode
Jamari Lattimore
Jarrett Boykin
J. Stoneburner
Nate Palmer
J. Kuhn

only Kuhn is a vet (Goode is too, but he's the snapper). Alyewe and Stoneburner were in-season additions due to LB injuries (recall that Francois was lost for the season; Perry and Neal were mostly unavailable). Richardson was injured and only came in late, but he too has little experience. All those guys are rookie FA first or second year scrap heap guys. In truth the conclusion is that the ST were populated by very young, very inexperience players, and certainly a good number were mostly unfamiliar with the Packers schemes and were learning on the fly. Bush as a gunner was pressed into service in the defensive backfield due to failures by McMillian and House; House was KO'd from the defense due to poor tackling, but played ST because there was no one else available. STs depend on LBs and DBs to tackle and gun, and the packers were a sorry bunch in both departments, mostly due to injury at LB and suckitude from the safeties. Slocum was working with a lot of raw crap.

[red]

most of our injuries this year were not special teamers, and the guys that were promoted to starting roles because of injuries, continued to play on special teams

the coverage units we had at the end of the year looked pretty damn close to the team that played in the middle of the year and the guys that started the year off.

and besides, like bretsky has said a few times before, your special teams is suppose to be made up of you fringe players, like stoneburner, its the job of the special teams coach to get those guys ready to play on a weekly basis.

and really, how fucking tough is it to tell a guy to stay in his fucking lane and tackle. a post-it note would do a better job then slocum

your special teams coverage unit is not made up of guys like a-rod, mathews, cobb, any of the jones, sherrod, baluga, or finleythose guys and hayward make up the bulk of our injuries this year. none of those guys (except for maybe hayward) have anything at all to do with the coverage units

[mraynrand]

most of our injuries this year were not special teamers, and the guys that were promoted to starting roles because of injuries, continued to play on special teams. the coverage units we had at the end of the year looked pretty damn close to the team that played in the middle of the year and the guys that started the year off.

I don't think this is true, but I'd have to go back and actually tabulate this. For sure, some of the guys playing STs at the end of the year weren't on the squad at the beginning


your special teams is suppose to be made up of you fringe players, like stoneburner, its the job of the special teams coach to get those guys ready to play on a weekly basis.

and really, how fucking tough is it to tell a guy to stay in his fucking lane and tackle. a post-it note would do a better job then slocum

You'd think it wouldn't be that tough, but what's your wonderlic score?


your special teams coverage unit is not made up of guys like a-rod, mathews, cobb, any of the jones, sherrod, baluga, or finleythose guys and hayward make up the bulk of our injuries this year. none of those guys (except for maybe hayward) have anything at all to do with the coverage units

Like I said, coverage units are largely LBs, dbs, running backs and wide receivers. Losses or deficiencies in those areas reflect on the special teams, and the Packers suffered with LBs and dbs. It's part of the equation that Stubby and TT are looking at when evaluating Slocum. Maybe they toss him anyway, because they agree that performance should be better, even with fringe guys in there.

[mraynrand]

anyway, you started a thread asking how green these guys were, and I think they were pretty young.

[red]

guess i should have asked if our guys this year are greener then usual? or greener then other teams ST guys

[mraynrand]

guess i should have asked if our guys this year are greener then usual? or greener then other teams ST guys

Hopefully Patler is working on this right now. I'm just too damn lazy and I actually have to do 15 minutes of real, actual work today.


http://www.vanseodesign.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/motivation.jpg

[Bossman641]

You ask...I provide. I have no idea how these numbers compare to other teams. I do recall reading that a few guys, like Stoneburner, either hadn't played ST in college or hadn't played them in a number of years.


Davon House 338 (66.1 percent)
Ryan Taylor 335 (65.6 percent)
Jarrett Bush 311 (60.9 percent)
Jamari Lattimore 292 (57.1 percent)
Chris Banjo 273 (53.4 percent)
Micah Hyde 254 (49.7 percent)
John Kuhn 229 (44.8 percent)
Andy Mulumba 217 (42.5 percent)
M.D. Jennings 201 (39.3 percent)
Tim Masthay 192 (37.6 percent)
Jerron McMillian 179 (35.0 percent)
Brandon Bostick 163 (31.9 percent)
Mike Daniels 158 (30.9 percent)
Brett Goode 157 (30.7 percent)
Jake Stoneburner 149 (29.2 percent)
Mason Crosby 145 (28.4 percent)
Sean Richardson 133 (26.0 percent)
Datone Jones 111 (21.7 percent)
Morgan Burnett 97 (19.0 percent)
Jarrett Boykin 94 (18.4 percent)
Victor Aiyewa 90 (17.6 percent)
Sam Barrington 89 (17.4 percent)
Robert Francois 87 (17.0 percent)
Nate Palmer 85 (16.6 percent)
Josh Sitton 84 (16.4 percent)
T.J. Lang 83 (16.2 percent)
David Bakhtiari 83 (16.2 percent)
Mike Neal 83 (16.2 percent)
Marshall Newhouse 80 (15.7 percent)
Andrew Quarless 80 (15.7 percent)
Don Barclay 76 (14.4 percent)
Johnathan Franklin 71 (13.9 percent)
Johnny Jolly 63 (12.3 percent)
Kahlil Bell 59 (11.5 percent)

[Bretsky]

When is the last time you've felt positive about our special teams coach ?

It's been a long dam time for me and to be honest the last sprecial teams coach I remembered who had some qualifications was a dude named something like John Bonemengo....he experienced some ST success but left I think when we had a coaching change after a year. The one before that I thought highly of was Nolan Cronwell.

Anytime we kickoff in the key situation are you just praying we somehow keep them inside of the 30 if Crosby does not put it through the end zone ?
How many games do we have to witness the failure of our coverage units before we call a spade a spade ?
Our special teams performanance is unacceptable and somebody has to be accountable.

You can blame TT for doing a poor job of assembling the bottom half of the roster, or you can argue it's coaching. Every team deal with injuries and apologists can use that as a reason why our OL, DL,DB,ST, and Secondardy was sub part. But ST is an annual letdown in Green Bay.

What is Seattle doing that is so frickin different than Green Bay.....better coaching....or are they just drafting better players.....which may be the captain obvious response in looking at how they retooled that defense and their defense is so much better than Green Bay's.

Their special teams is phenominal. Our special teams are unacceptable.

[red]

When is the last time you've felt positive about our special teams coach ?

It's been a long dam time for me and to be honest the last sprecial teams coach I remembered who had some qualifications was a dude named something like John Bonemengo....he experienced some ST success but left I think when we had a coaching change after a year. The one before that I thought highly of was Nolan Cronwell.

Anytime we kickoff in the key situation are you just praying we somehow keep them inside of the 30 if Crosby does not put it through the end zone ?
How many games do we have to witness the failure of our coverage units before we call a spade a spade ?
Our special teams performanance is unacceptable and somebody has to be accountable.

You can blame TT for doing a poor job of assembling the bottom half of the roster, or you can argue it's coaching. Every team deal with injuries and apologists can use that as a reason why our OL, DL,DB,ST, and Secondardy was sub part. But ST is an annual letdown in Green Bay.

What is Seattle doing that is so frickin different than Green Bay.....better coaching....or are they just drafting better players.....which may be the captain obvious response in looking at how they retooled that defense and their defense is so much better than Green Bay's.

Their special teams is phenominal. Our special teams are unacceptable.

well, its about fucking time my backup got here

i figured i was gonna get eaten alive by the cool aide crowd until you got here

i think me and you should pick a day and meet up in green bay and tailgate out in the parking lot of 1265 with giant "FIRE SLOCUM" banners

[Joemailman]

The thing I'm wondering is whether any of this matters much. Of the top 10 ST units in 2013, 6 failed to make the playoffs. The Packers were 19th this year according to Football Outsiders. The year they won the Super Bowl they were 26th. Yes B, Seattle's special teams were great this year. They were 5th. Well, in 2010 they were 2nd and finished 7-9. I think we know why Seattle is in the Super Bowl, and it's not ST. Their opponent in the Super Bowl had the 21st ranked unit. I think it's probably true you don't want to be one of the worst ST units, but I'm not sure having one of the top units is all that significant.

As for injuries, are we to conclude that it's just a coincidence that the Packers ST units ranked 8th in 2011, the one recent year when the Packers were relatively injury-free?

[Carolina_Packer]

What is Seattle doing that is so frickin different than Green Bay.....better coaching....or are they just drafting better players.....which may be the captain obvious response in looking at how they retooled that defense and their defense is so much better than Green Bay's.

Their special teams is phenominal. Our special teams are unacceptable.

I've thought this before too about Seattle and San Francisco. Both teams were mediocre in 2010, and now they are among the elite teams having fixed what ailed them fairly quickly. I get that both teams have young QB's who are yet to get their big contract that takes a big cap number and forces them to make some tough choices. Those teams are willing to do smart, shorter-term free agent contracts that don't require a big cap number. Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril in that defense on 1 year deals...genius! If Seattle wants them back, then perhaps it won't even require big money.

As for defense, New Orleans was hot garbage on defense in 2012 and not great in previous years. They hire Rob Ryan and in one year (must have had quite a few of the same guys on defense) they turn it around into a very respectable defense.

When you don't sign veteran free agents, and only sign draft picks, college free agents and established Packer players, then you'd better hope you are banking on the right guys. Is it always best to patch from within? I like the idea of coaching guys up, letting them grow in the system and then rewarding that, but what if you are rewarding guys who have pretty much reached their apex and the team needs more? Brad Jones anyone? Could we not have gotten a better ILB than that on the open market? That's just one example. With so many roster decisions to make and our top offensive and defensive player inked for a few years, it's time to think outside the box about the possibility of finding someone who fits the scheme, is undervalued and has some experience to offer. Nobody is asking to give stupid money to someone, but if Seattle can get a Bennett and Avril for one year, then Green Bay should consider the same type of deal. Guys would come, especially because of Rodgers and they know we need help on defense, so they could be part of the solution, and in one year you'll know if they fit or not and you can always extend them if it works out with them.

[mraynrand]

What is Seattle doing that is so frickin different than Green Bay.....better coaching....or are they just drafting better players.....which may be the captain obvious response in looking at how they retooled that defense and their defense is so much better than Green Bay's.

Their special teams is phenominal. Our special teams are unacceptable.

So what's the difference?

[Patler]

You ask...I provide. I have no idea how these numbers compare to other teams. I do recall reading that a few guys, like Stoneburner, either hadn't played ST in college or hadn't played them in a number of years.


Davon House 338 (66.1 percent)
Ryan Taylor 335 (65.6 percent)
Jarrett Bush 311 (60.9 percent)
Jamari Lattimore 292 (57.1 percent)
Chris Banjo 273 (53.4 percent)
Micah Hyde 254 (49.7 percent)
John Kuhn 229 (44.8 percent)
Andy Mulumba 217 (42.5 percent)
M.D. Jennings 201 (39.3 percent)
Tim Masthay 192 (37.6 percent)
Jerron McMillian 179 (35.0 percent)
Brandon Bostick 163 (31.9 percent)
Mike Daniels 158 (30.9 percent)
Brett Goode 157 (30.7 percent)
Jake Stoneburner 149 (29.2 percent)
Mason Crosby 145 (28.4 percent)
Sean Richardson 133 (26.0 percent)
Datone Jones 111 (21.7 percent)
Morgan Burnett 97 (19.0 percent)
Jarrett Boykin 94 (18.4 percent)
Victor Aiyewa 90 (17.6 percent)
Sam Barrington 89 (17.4 percent)
Robert Francois 87 (17.0 percent)
Nate Palmer 85 (16.6 percent)
Josh Sitton 84 (16.4 percent)
T.J. Lang 83 (16.2 percent)
David Bakhtiari 83 (16.2 percent)
Mike Neal 83 (16.2 percent)
Marshall Newhouse 80 (15.7 percent)
Andrew Quarless 80 (15.7 percent)
Don Barclay 76 (14.4 percent)
Johnathan Franklin 71 (13.9 percent)
Johnny Jolly 63 (12.3 percent)
Kahlil Bell 59 (11.5 percent)

Is this the number of total plays they participated in? ST plays? or what?

One of my pet peeves is that journalists often criticize the units, but rarely if ever report who is on it, what changes have been made due to injuries, etc.

Bush, of course, has done it forever; Kuhn, too. House ever since his first season, and has played well. Taylor and Latimore have made the team for several years only because of STs. Richardson was a stud on STs last year before his injury. Every team has a bunch of new guys each year; and the ones who aren't O-line and D-line are worked into STs.

MM said when Capers was hired that one of the advantages of the 3-4 is that it improves STs by having more of the linebacker bodies that are ideal for STs.

Guys like Malumba, Bostick, Boykin and others worked on STs since training camp, yet when they needed to make a play against SF they gave up a 40 yard return.

In recent years they drafted guys with ST prowess. They had guys with lots of experience. Still, the coverage units player poorly.

I can't help but believe at least some of it is do to ineffective ST coaching.

[Bretsky]

The thing I'm wondering is whether any of this matters much. Of the top 10 ST units in 2013, 6 failed to make the playoffs. The Packers were 19th this year according to Football Outsiders. The year they won the Super Bowl they were 26th. Yes B, Seattle's special teams were great this year. They were 5th. Well, in 2010 they were 2nd and finished 7-9. I think we know why Seattle is in the Super Bowl, and it's not ST. Their opponent in the Super Bowl had the 21st ranked unit. I think it's probably true you don't want to be one of the worst ST units, but I'm not sure having one of the top units is all that significant.

As for injuries, are we to conclude that it's just a coincidence that the Packers ST units ranked 8th in 2011, the one recent year when the Packers were relatively injury-free?


What did our coverage until rate in 2011 ? And is one year out of his reign of muck acceptable ? I'm seeing pattern of failures; I'd consider 2011 a fluke as much as anything fwiw. I haven't even touched on Ross....who looked outstanding for Detroit but not all there with us. But I think consistently our coverage units terrify me. So IMO it's our drafting or the coaching.

[Bretsky]

:knll:
I've thought this before too about Seattle and San Francisco. Both teams were mediocre in 2010, and now they are among the elite teams having fixed what ailed them fairly quickly. I get that both teams have young QB's who are yet to get their big contract that takes a big cap number and forces them to make some tough choices. Those teams are willing to do smart, shorter-term free agent contracts that don't require a big cap number. Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril in that defense on 1 year deals...genius! If Seattle wants them back, then perhaps it won't even require big money.

As for defense, New Orleans was hot garbage on defense in 2012 and not great in previous years. They hire Rob Ryan and in one year (must have had quite a few of the same guys on defense) they turn it around into a very respectable defense.

When you don't sign veteran free agents, and only sign draft picks, college free agents and established Packer players, then you'd better hope you are banking on the right guys. Is it always best to patch from within? I like the idea of coaching guys up, letting them grow in the system and then rewarding that, but what if you are rewarding guys who have pretty much reached their apex and the team needs more? Brad Jones anyone? Could we not have gotten a better ILB than that on the open market? That's just one example. With so many roster decisions to make and our top offensive and defensive player inked for a few years, it's time to think outside the box about the possibility of finding someone who fits the scheme, is undervalued and has some experience to offer. Nobody is asking to give stupid money to someone, but if Seattle can get a Bennett and Avril for one year, then Green Bay should consider the same type of deal. Guys would come, especially because of Rodgers and they know we need help on defense, so they could be part of the solution, and in one year you'll know if they fit or not and you can always extend them if it works out with them.


this is one f'ckin awesome post

[Bretsky]

So what's the difference?


Our coverage units have shown consistent failures over the course of time under Slocum IMO and they have come at some terrible times; that is where Seattle has excelled as a team. Jarrett Bush has often been mentioned as one of the best gunners in the NFL. But the unti as a whole is inconsistent at best over time. To me that is coaching. Also,
I think the Seattle GM has been at the top of his game the past few years and has loaded that team with talent at the top and bottom of the roster...he's done a better job stocking that team than TT over the past few years...and they have better coaching at ST. I've never been a fan of Slocum. GB fired its special teams coach and hired their assistant. Now we're stuck with him.

[Bretsky]

Is this the number of total plays they participated in? ST plays? or what?

One of my pet peeves is that journalists often criticize the units, but rarely if ever report who is on it, what changes have been made due to injuries, etc.

Bush, of course, has done it forever; Kuhn, too. House ever since his first season, and has played well. Taylor and Latimore have made the team for several years only because of STs. Richardson was a stud on STs last year before his injury. Every team has a bunch of new guys each year; and the ones who aren't O-line and D-line are worked into STs.

MM said when Capers was hired that one of the advantages of the 3-4 is that it improves STs by having more of the linebacker bodies that are ideal for STs.

Guys like Malumba, Bostick, Boykin and others worked on STs since training camp, yet when they needed to make a play against SF they gave up a 40 yard return.

In recent years they drafted guys with ST prowess. They had guys with lots of experience. Still, the coverage units player poorly.

I can't help but believe at least some of it is do to ineffective ST coaching.



WHAT PATLER SAID

[mraynrand]

Guys like Malumba, Bostick, Boykin and others worked on STs since training camp, yet when they needed to make a play against SF they gave up a 40 yard return.

I know you used the work 'like' but when the play in question came up, Bostic was on IR, Mulumba was nursing an injury, and both Mulumba and Boykin were pressed into starting duty.

Seems like we're on an impasse on this subject. Packers build from within strategy appears insufficient to win a title every other year, like better-run teams in Seattle and SF. I thought the point was to compare the relative amount of youth on the various rosters (because that WAS the subject of the thread) and whether that has an influence on ST performance. Are Sea and SF STs better because their STs are stocked with players drafted to play defense, and GB drafted a lot of guys to play offense, and/or is it youth, inexperience, and injury? I too agree with Patler that "I can't help but believe at least some of it is do to ineffective ST coaching." But I also believe a lot of it has to do with those other factors.

[Patler]

I know you used the work 'like' but when the play in question came up, Bostic was on IR, Mulumba was nursing an injury, and both Mulumba and Boykin were pressed into starting duty.

Seems like we're on an impasse on this subject. Packers build from within strategy appears insufficient to win a title every other year, like better-run teams in Seattle and SF. I thought the point was to compare the relative amount of youth on the various rosters (because that WAS the subject of the thread) and whether that has an influence on ST performance. Are Sea and SF STs better because their STs are stocked with players drafted to play defense, and GB drafted a lot of guys to play offense, and/or is it youth, inexperience, and injury? I too agree with Patler that "I can't help but believe at least some of it is do to ineffective ST coaching." But I also believe a lot of it has to do with those other factors.

OK, let me be clear, I don't know or if it was Malumba or any other specific individual in on that play. What I was trying to get across was that the young guys, the rookies and first year players (like Malumba), had been worked into STs from the time it looked like they might make the team, and for a great many of them, that was sometime in training camp. By December, they are no longer green.

I don't buy the injury excuse at all. I don't see that many transactions during the year that would have had a huge impact on the coverage teams. A few, sure, but what teams don't have at least a few. Besides, some of their signings were specifically for STs (Aiyewa comes to mind)

12/31/2013 G Lanier Coleman signed to practice squad
12/28/2013 WR Randall Cobb activated from injured reserve – designated for return
12/27/2013 CB Jumal Rolle signed to active roster from practice squad
12/21/2013 TE Brandon Bostick and DT Johnny Jolly placed on injured reserve
12/10/2013 C/G JC Tretter activated from reserve/physically unable to perform; WR Myles White placed on injured reserve
12/03/2013 RB Kahlil Bell signed and S Jerron McMillian released; CB Antonio Dennard signed to practice squad
11/27/2013 LB Victor Aiyewa signed to active roster from the practice squad; RB Johnathan Franklin placed on injured reserve
11/23/2013 S Sean Richardson and DE Jerel Worthy activated from reserve/physically unable to perform; CB Casey Hayward and CB James Nixon placed on injured reserve
11/20/2013 G Andrew Tiller signed to practice squad; G Bryan Collins released from practice squad
11/20/2013 G Andrew Tiller signed to practice squad; G Bryan Collins released from practice squad
11/13/2013 RB Orwin Smith signed to practice squad
11/12/2013 QB Matt Flynn signed; QB Seneca Wallace placed on injured reserve
11/06/2013 QB Scott Tolzien signed to active roster from practice squad; WR Alex Gillett signed to practice squad
11/05/2013 T Derek Sherrod activated from reserve/physically unable to perform; LB Sam Barrington and TE Jermichael Finley placed on injured reserve
10/22/2013 RB Michael Hill signed to practice squad; WR Reggie Dunn released from practice squad
10/18/2013 WR Chris Harper claimed off waivers from San Francisco 49ers; RB Michael Hill released
10/16/2013 WR Tyrone Walker signed to practice squad
10/15/2013 TE Jake Stoneburner and WR Myles White signed to active roster; LB Victor Aiyewa signed to practice squad; WR Randall Cobb placed on injured reserve – designated for return, G/C Greg Van Roten placed on injured reserve
10/14/2013 WR Reggie Dunn signed to practice squad
10/10/2013 C Garth Gerhart signed to practice squad; WR Reggie Dunn released from practice squad
10/08/2013 CB Jumal Rolle signed to practice squad
10/07/2013 CB James Nixon signed to active roster; LB Robert Francois (Achilles) placed on injured reserve
09/30/2013 RB Michael Hill signed to active roster from practice squad; WR Reggie Dunn signed to practice squad
09/23/2013 WR Jeremy Ross released

[mraynrand]

What I was trying to get across was that the young guys, the rookies and first year players (like Malumba), had been worked into STs from the time it looked like they might make the team, and for a great many of them, that was sometime in training camp. By December, they are no longer green.

I don't buy the injury excuse at all. I don't see that many transactions during the year that would have had a huge impact on the coverage teams. A few, sure, but what teams don't have at least a few. Besides, some of their signings were specifically for STs (Aiyewa comes to mind)


Well at least you came out and said you don't buy the injury argument. So for you means it's personnel (Thompson) and coaching (Slocum) only.

Still, you can argue integration all you want, but when this is going on:

10/15/2013 TE Jake Stoneburner and WR Myles White signed to active roster; LB Victor Aiyewa signed to practice squad,

and guys are activated and play STs on the fly coming off the practice squad, I wonder what the effect is. You are dismissing inexperience, and you are saying the coaches should be abel to create a cohesive unit on the fly. I guess I buy into the team concept -playing together and getting familiar has a huge effect, even on STs.

But now compare that to Seattle and SF. Like I say, I'm too lazy to do all that research, but I just did't see the same turnover with other teams. Maybe they had several PS guys and street rookie FAs on their teams playing 3-4 games at the end of the season too. Perhaps SF and Sea just have better coaching and/or were built to play ST better. Let's see how many championships it nets them.

[Bossman641]

Is this the number of total plays they participated in? ST plays? or what?

Number of ST plays they participated in

[Rastak]

Profootball Focus rating for Green Bay's special teams. They ranked 30th in the NFL per PFF.



Ratings

Pos. Name Overall
P Tim Masthay 17.1
K Mason Crosby 9.1
ST Datone Jones 5.0
ST Micah Hyde 3.7
ST Sean Richardson
ST Chris Harper 1.0
ST Brandon Bostick 1.0
ST Robert Francois 0.5
ST Mike Neal 0.5
ST Morgan Burnett 0.5
ST Michael Hill 0.4
ST Randall Cobb 0.4
ST Sam Shields 0.0
ST M.D. Jennings 0.0
ST Jordy Nelson 0.0
ST Chris Banjo -0.1
ST James Jones -0.5
ST Mike Daniels -0.5
ST James Starks -0.5
ST Jarrett Boykin -0.5
ST Kahlil Bell -0.6
ST Jamari Lattimore -1.0
ST Jarrett Bush -1.0
ST Johnathan Franklin -1.3
ST James Nixon -1.5
ST Andrew Quarless -1.5
ST Nick Perry -1.5
ST Sam Barrington -1.5
ST Jerron McMillian -2.0
ST Myles White -2.0
ST Andy Mulumba -2.0
ST Jeremy Ross -2.2
ST John Kuhn -2.8
ST Nate Palmer -3.5
ST Ryan Taylor -3.5
LS Brett Goode -4.0
ST Victor Aiyewa -4.0
ST Jake Stoneburner -4.6
ST Davon House -5.5

[Patler]

49ers transactions:



12/30
Perrish Cox (DB) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).

12/27
Mario Manningham (WR) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).
Perrish Cox (DB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

12/18
Will Tukuafu (DT) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Will Tukuafu (DT) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Bruce Miller (FB) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).

12/11
Perrish Cox (DB) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).

12/10
Ryan Seymour (OG) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).
Ryan Seymour (OG) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Cornellius Carradine (DE) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).
Devon Wylie (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

12/7
Devon Wylie (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

12/5
Devon Wylie (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/28
McLeod Bethel-Thompson (QB) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/27
Perrish Cox (DB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

11/26
McLeod Bethel-Thompson (QB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).
Perrish Cox (DB) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Devon Wylie (WR) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

11/18
Dax Swanson (DB) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/16
Derek Carrier (TE) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Derek Carrier (TE) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).

11/12
Perrish Cox (DB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).
Devon Wylie (WR) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Devon Wylie (WR) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).

11/6
Devon Wylie (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/4
Nnamdi Asomugha (CB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

10/31
Aldon Smith (OLB) Exempt/Commissioner Permission (exempt/commissioner permission).

10/30
Devon Wylie (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

10/29
Dax Swanson (DB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

10/16
Devon Wylie (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

10/14
Al Netter (T) Practice Squad (practice squad).

10/9
McLeod Bethel-Thompson (QB) Assigned via Waivers (assigned via waivers).

10/8
McLeod Bethel-Thompson (QB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).
Devon Wylie (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).
Al Netter (T) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

10/1
Owen Marecic (RB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

9/25
Devon Wylie (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/24
Darryl Morris (DB) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).
Darryl Morris (DB) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).

9/23
Aldon Smith (OLB) Reserve/Non-Football Illness (reserve/non-football illness).

9/17
Ian Williams (NT) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).
Owen Marecic (RB) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Will Tukuafu (FB) Waived, Injury Settlement (waived, injury settlement).
Will Tukuafu (FB) Waived, Injury Settlement (waived, injury settlement).

9/11
Kassim Osgood (WR) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Ryan Seymour (OG) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Will Tukuafu (FB) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).
Will Tukuafu (FB) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).

9/10
Will Tukuafu (FB) Waived, Injured (waived, injured).
Will Tukuafu (FB) Waived, Injured (waived, injured).

9/9
Demarcus Dobbs (TE) Suspension Lifted by Commissioner (suspension lifted by commissioner).
Demarcus Dobbs (TE) Exempt/Commissioner Permission (exempt/commissioner permission).
Demarcus Dobbs (TE) Suspension Lifted by Commissioner (suspension lifted by commissioner).
Demarcus Dobbs (TE) Exempt/Commissioner Permission (exempt/commissioner permission).

9/5
Ryan Seymour (OG) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

9/3
Derek Carrier (TE) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/2
Darryl Morris (DB) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Jewel Hampton (RB) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Al Netter (T) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Mike Purcell (NT) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Ryan Seymour (OG) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Chuck Jacobs (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Carter Bykowski (OT) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Lamar Divens (NT) Waived, Injury Settlement (waived, injury settlement).

[Patler]

Seahawks transactions:


12/23
Walter Thurmond (CB) Exempt/Commissioner Permission (exempt/commissioner permission).
Walter Thurmond (CB) Suspension Lifted by Commissioner (suspension lifted by commissioner).

12/19
Bryan Walters (WR) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).
Bryan Walters (WR) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Michael Brooks (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

12/18
Brandon Browner (CB) Reserve/Suspended by Commissioner-At Least One Year (reserve/suspended by commissioner-at least one year).
Dewayne Cherrington (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Arceto Clark (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Michael Brooks (DT) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

12/17
Mike Taylor (OLB) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

12/11
Jeron Johnson (SS) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).
Mike Taylor (OLB) Practice Squad (practice squad).

12/7
Michael Brooks (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

12/5
Michael Brooks (DT) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

11/27
DeShawn Shead (DB) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Cooper Helfet (TE) Practice Squad (practice squad).
DeShawn Shead (DB) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).

11/26
Cooper Helfet (TE) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).
Walter Thurmond (CB) Reserve/Suspended By Commissioner-Less than One Year (reserve/suspended by commissioner-less than one year).
Akeem Auguste (DB) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/19
B.J. Daniels (QB) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/16
B.J. Daniels (QB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

11/13
Michael Brooks (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/12
Arceto Clark (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).
Bryan Walters (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

11/11
Michael Brooks (DT) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

11/9
Bryan Walters (WR) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).
Michael Brooks (DT) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).
Michael Brooks (DT) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).

11/5
Phil Bates (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

10/30
Ricardo Lockette (WR) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).
Ricardo Lockette (WR) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Sidney Rice (WR) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).

10/22
Spencer Ware (RB) Reserve/Injured (reserve/injured).
Ricardo Lockette (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Michael Robinson (FB) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).

10/21
Ricardo Lockette (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

10/12
Jason Spitz (C) Terminated, Vested Veteran, all contracts (terminated, vested veteran, all contracts).
Bryan Walters (WR) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).
Bryan Walters (WR) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).

10/9
Darren Fells (TE) Practice Squad (practice squad).

10/8
Jared Smith (DT) Practice Squad; Injured (practice squad; injured).

10/4
D'Anthony Smith (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

10/2
Arceto Clark (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).
B.J. Daniels (QB) Assigned via Waivers (assigned via waivers).
D'Anthony Smith (DT) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).
D'Anthony Smith (DT) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

10/1
B.J. Daniels (QB) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

9/30
Bruce Irvin (OLB) Suspension Lifted by Commissioner (suspension lifted by commissioner).
Bruce Irvin (OLB) Exempt/Commissioner Permission (exempt/commissioner permission).

9/27
Arceto Clark (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).
Michael Brooks (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/26
Michael Brooks (DT) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).
Arceto Clark (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/25
Jason Spitz (C) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
D'Anthony Smith (DT) Assigned via Waivers (assigned via waivers).

9/24
D'Anthony Smith (DT) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

9/23
Caylin Hauptmann (OT) Terminated (by Player) from Practice Squad (terminated (by player) from practice squad).
Caylin Hauptmann (OT) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Bryan Walters (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/21
Bryan Walters (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

9/20
Michael Brooks (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/19
Michael Brooks (DT) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

9/17
Arceto Clark (WR) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

9/14
Clinton McDonald (DT) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).

9/12
Michael Brooks (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Jared Smith (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/11
Jared Smith (DT) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).
Kellen Davis (TE) Free Agent Signing (free agent signing).
Michael Brooks (DT) Terminated (by Club) from Practice Squad (terminated (by club) from practice squad).

9/10
Arceto Clark (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/3
Caylin Hauptmann (OT) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Bryan Walters (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/2
Cooper Helfet (TE) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Michael Brooks (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Ricardo Lockette (WR) Practice Squad (practice squad).
DeShawn Shead (DB) Practice Squad (practice squad).
Jared Smith (DT) Practice Squad (practice squad).

9/1
Kellen Davis (TE) Terminated, Vested Veteran, all contracts (terminated, vested veteran, all contracts).
Caylin Hauptmann (OT) Waived, No Recall (waived, no recall).

[denverYooper]

Man, there were a lot of suspensions on that team for drug violations.

[mraynrand]

But now compare that to Seattle and SF. Like I say, I'm too lazy to do all that research, but I just did't see the same turnover with other teams. Maybe they had several PS guys and street rookie FAs on their teams playing 3-4 games at the end of the season too.

the transaction wires don't tell you who is playing STs week to week

[Patler]

49ers and Seahawks transactions posted for anyone who cares to study them. It really doesn't interest me, because:

Every team loses players, some a few more, some a few less. The Packer injuries, while significant, are not necessarily extraordinary.
GB has been poor/inconsistent on coverage units for years.
GB's overall roster tends to be young, but their game day active roster has not been. Typically their "extra" young guys tend to be inactive.
This year, many of their IR designations didn't affect coverage teams (Wallace, Bulaga, Jolly, Hayward (he was out from the start anyway, months to compensate for him, if he even played coverage), etc. This is not intended to be an exhaustive list.
The fact that a reserve suddenly sees more playing time doesn't automatically mean he is taken off teams, even if he becomes a full-time starter.
Every ST coach deals with changing lineups, its just the nature of the job.

I think blaming injuries this year is an excuse more than a reason.

[Patler]

the transaction wires don't tell you who is playing STs week to week

No, but it tells you how much their roster changes at the key ST positions of LB, FB, TE, DB, etc. That's where the extra players are that typically man ST lineups. Blaming GB's injuries this year also does not tell us if it affected coverage and return teams that much either.

[mraynrand]

My view is the Packers are built for offense and teams like SF and Sea are built for defense. Having better LBs and DBs will make you better at STs. Having a defensive mentality as a team will also make you better at STs. When you mix in injuries to the unit that contributes, I believe, the most to STs (the LBs), it has a significant effect. When guys who exclusively payed STs play significantly more downs from scrimmage, it affects their freshness for STs as well. It would also help to have an explosive return guy, but injury (Cobb) and mismanagement (Ross) led to a dearth of talent there. Finally, there probably has been some effect on stats having to play the Bears over the years and their very good special teams. I think the Packers are using injuries as an excuse, but that injure are also a real reason for their ST struggles.

[mraynrand]

No, but it tells you how much their roster changes at the key ST positions of LB, FB, TE, DB, etc. That's where the extra players are that typically man ST lineups. Blaming GB's injuries this year also does not tell us if it affected coverage and return teams that much either.

It tells you nothing, unless you know whether the players in the transactions actually perform on STs. For all you know, all these guys are inactive on Sundays. In the case of Sea, tons of those are 'terminated from PS'



Blaming GB's injuries this year also does not tell us if it affected coverage and return teams that much either.
It's a POV. I'm guessing that throwing Ayelaawayawa and Stonedburned in there late in the season, as scrap heap guys, ain't helping. Having Mulumba and Bush playing defense and STs seems to have blunted their performance on teams, IMO.

[Patler]

My view is the Packers are built for offense and teams like SF and Sea are built for defense. Having better LBs and DBs will make you better at STs. Having a defensive mentality as a team will also make you better at STs. When you mix in injuries to the unit that contributes, I believe, the most to STs (the LBs), it has a significant effect. When guys who exclusively payed STs play significantly more downs from scrimmage, it affects their freshness for STs as well. It would also help to have an explosive return guy, but injury (Cobb) and mismanagement (Ross) led to a dearth of talent there. Finally, there probably has been some effect on stats having to play the Bears over the years and their very good special teams. I think the Packers are using injuries as an excuse, but that injure are also a real reason for their ST struggles.

The mentality aspect is one I have often wondered about. To me, a lot of ST play is attitude.

[Patler]

It tells you nothing, unless you know whether the players in the transactions actually perform on STs. For all you know, all these guys are inactive on Sundays. In the case of Sea, tons of those are 'terminated from PS'

It's a POV. I'm guessing that throwing Ayelaawayawa and Stonedburned in there late in the season, as scrap heap guys, ain't helping. Having Mulumba and Bush playing defense and STs seems to have blunted their performance on teams, IMO.

I think we all know that the PS additions/deletions mean little. I thought about deleting those, but since they are so obvious I didn't think it was worth my time to edit the lists.

The Packers injuries and roster changes are similarly meaningless unless you analyze the actual game day rosters.

I sure wish I knew why in the last few years pro football players are suddenly over taxed if they play 30 plays a game. We are being sold another excuse by both the Packers and some journalists. After all, every team suits the same number of players for every game, and usually all but reserve QBs and maybe an O-lineman or two end up playing.

[3irty1]

Most of this conversation is masterbatory IMO. Our ST rankings probably have as much to do with being in a division with Patterson, Hester, and Bush than what's going on with our own units. Also doesn't help to have an offense that rarely turns the ball over. The special teams can rank from great to awful on any given Sunday so we're talking about a relatively loose pattern with a relatively small sample size. The teams are good enough to compete. Fire Slocum anyways? Yes.

[red]

this year we ranked 29th in kickoff return yards allowed (26.0 yards), interestingly denver was dead last with 29.3. the very injury depleted bears with their horrible defense this season allowed the least yards per return (18.8)

and we also ranked 29th in punt return yardage given up (13.1 yards). seattle and st. louis both held their opponents under 4 yards per return. guess that was all luck. again the injury ravaged bears were one of the best (6th)

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's a simple reason: M.I.S.S.

Mike It's Slocum Stupid.

[ThunderDan]

Slocum needs to go. The ST have at least one break down per game.

I understand the rotating in players thing but we sure should be able to do that without a major bust per game.

[mraynrand]

this year we ranked 29th in kickoff return yards allowed (26.0 yards), interestingly denver was dead last with 29.3. the very injury depleted bears with their horrible defense this season allowed the least yards per return (18.8)

and we also ranked 29th in punt return yardage given up (13.1 yards). seattle and st. louis both held their opponents under 4 yards per return. guess that was all luck. again the injury ravaged bears were one of the best (6th)

Well, shit, that's what I've been arguing all along. It's all luck. Packer success and failure is of course all attributable to luck. But then so is it for everyone else. So much for all the discussion.

[red]

a lot of people have mentioned how good our special teams were in 2011, ranking 8th overall

however

the kickoff coverage unit ranked 15th and the punt coverage unit ranked 28th

in 2012 they did much better ranking 15th in kickoff coverage and 5th in punt coverage

going back to 2010, 13th for KO coverage, tied for 24 in punt coverage

i think the injury excuse is complete bullshit. the one year were we were relatively injury free and people point at as proof the injuries effect ST's (2011) we were still average at best to horrible in the coverage units

time to stop looking for excuses and start looking at the problem, its the coach, and his name is slocum. and his coverage units have been shit since he got the job

[mraynrand]

time to stop looking for excuses and start looking at the problem, its the coach, and his name is slocum. and his coverage units have been shit since he got the job

But you just said it was luck. And just when I thought I was starting to get a handle on things...

[3irty1]

The Bears were not ravaged by a high number of injuries but the few injuries they did have happened to be to some of their top 5 players on defense.

[Rutnstrut]

The thing I'm wondering is whether any of this matters much. Of the top 10 ST units in 2013, 6 failed to make the playoffs. The Packers were 19th this year according to Football Outsiders. The year they won the Super Bowl they were 26th. Yes B, Seattle's special teams were great this year. They were 5th. Well, in 2010 they were 2nd and finished 7-9. I think we know why Seattle is in the Super Bowl, and it's not ST. Their opponent in the Super Bowl had the 21st ranked unit. I think it's probably true you don't want to be one of the worst ST units, but I'm not sure having one of the top units is all that significant.

As for injuries, are we to conclude that it's just a coincidence that the Packers ST units ranked 8th in 2011, the one recent year when the Packers were relatively injury-free?

It matters a lot when your defense also sucks donkey balls.

[Patler]

It matters a lot when your defense also sucks donkey balls.

Exactly. Two good phases of the team can overcome one poor one. But one good one, no matter how good, can't overcome two bad ones for more than just some games.

[woodbuck27]

" When you don't sign veteran free agents, and only sign draft picks, college free agents and established Packer players, then you'd better hope you are banking on the right guys. Is it always best to patch from within? I like the idea of coaching guys up, letting them grow in the system and then rewarding that, but what if you are rewarding guys who have pretty much reached their apex and the team needs more? Brad Jones anyone? Could we not have gotten a better ILB than that on the open market? That's just one example. With so many roster decisions to make and our top offensive and defensive player inked for a few years, it's time to think outside the box about the possibility of finding someone who fits the scheme, is undervalued and has some experience to offer. Nobody is asking to give stupid money to someone, but if Seattle can get a Bennett and Avril for one year, then Green Bay should consider the same type of deal. Guys would come, especially because of Rodgers and they know we need help on defense, so they could be part of the solution, and in one year you'll know if they fit or not and you can always extend them if it works out with them. " Carolina _Packer

Nice post Repped. :-D

I see in your post the same question that prevails (year to year) among some more expectant Packer fans and others that focus on the Green Bay Packers and it's approach to growing better as a TEAM.

One can "only analyze and or speculate" what's really going on behind the scenes or away from the playing field in Green Bay. That's resourced by the attitudes of players the are obviously not playing well. Observe the stuff we get and TT (Russ Ball) offers to players like Morgan Burnett (extended and floundering), Sam Shields (Give me more TT or bye bye or I have to get out of here because you were too late seeing my worth...or I need more that being a Green Bay Packer offers my life ... See Kevin Greene).

The real puzzler !! What was TT thinking offering $8 Million$ to a useless BJ Raji? Then we have to watch his plunging decline and actually wonder if TT and MM and Dom Capers would actually and seriously extend him!? What is that all about?

Does TT (Russ Ball) actually believe that bigger money is an incentive towards improved performance? It appears that's exactly the case. TT is therefore seriously misguided and I can't believe I'm actually raising this point.

I'll as it insults me as a Packer fan step away from Ted Thompson and pose this another way.

Buddy Manager wants to pay out more for an employee that is seriously under performing. I inform him then that he/she is misguided. Read he as he/she. If he protested and I cared about that person. I'd ask him what College or Organizational Management Program he graduated from? I'd ask him to think about all the money and effort that cost him? I would ask him how that Program rewards him in terms of success today? Then I would ask him to ponder whether or not he wasted his money on that piece of wallpaper that might hang somewhere or in some obscure place.

Why!? I'm positive he was more than likely misguided in several area of importance and good management as a grad of that program. Most of which ( 9 months away from that academic environment ) he's forgotten or not using today. If you want bad in any hire. Get him all educated to the yip yoe and shove him in an office.

This isn't the case in Green Bay except for Ted Thompson. I'll cut right through all of the bullshit. Ted Thompson is the key to us solving any issue and progress in the Green bay Packer Organization. It's my position that Ted Thompson isn't doing his job. It's my position that Ted Thompson has to change dramatically or go.

The people who do the real work in an organization or must be relied upon daily to see success will not bump up success to a higher place with more pay for doing slightly more or the same in terms of effort and results. SEE STATISTICS. STATISTICS are numbers that prove any point in terms of being objective in analysis.

In GREEN BAY one of the new chants is "statistics are for losers".

Mike McCarthy has become certainly defensive before the press this past year. I see Mike McCarthy like this:

Does anyone have a problem with that? If so I don't give a damn. Don't ask that! I'm not going to answer that question. Ask the person that might be able to answer that question. I know that person isn't often available for anything. What do you want me to say about that? I have too much to do in terms of reacting to a change (s) in the Packer CULTURE. NO! I don't have a clue why stuff happens around me and affects my CULTURE. I'm just the damn coach here and me and my staff are outstanding in our job's. We are part of an Organization Of Excellence. Any more stupid questions?Uhh!? Uhh? OK then...bye. MM

Why is MM that way?

Ted Thompson.