Broncos -- built to win now

[denverYooper]

This article from Rosenthal has some interesting observations about Elway's aggressive use of FA:


The Broncos are a team built to win in Peyton Manning's championship window. Denver had the least amount of drafted players on their 53-man roster of any team that made it to Championship Sunday, and the oldest average age, according to USA Today.


This isn't a team that can only "build through the draft." They don't have the time. Elway's success largely has been built on identifying weak spots on the roster and aggressively trying to fill those holes.

There's also a table in the article showing 18 FA signings for Denver in 2013. 18! Of those, though, 33% are worth a damn. Still, though, it's an approach that has gotten Denver to the superbowl and probably at least 1 more year of championship contention.

Now, their equation was made somewhat different by signing Manning. They had 3-4 years to throw a team around him and take a couple shots at the title. We'll see if it works out for them and what happens after this quick run is done.

[mraynrand]

Current Broncos are an interesting mirror image of Sherman's Packers. Sherman tried to win with the QB in place who appeared to be just about done, but injuries (2002) and QB meltdowns (2003,4) pretty much killed that plan (not to mention the very rotten drafting in 2004). This year Broncos are dealing with some significant injuries (not as bad as '02 Packers of course) and last year Manning melted down a bit (plus they had their version of 4th and 26 against the Ravens too).

The other similarity might be that they have to seriously rebuild, but they will do it without Manning. Packers had Favre for three years of the TT refit and it smoothed that out considerably - two down years (2005, 6) and one great year. Wonder if Broncos will look as bad as Colts after Manning departure.

[bobblehead]

This could also read "Broncos...built to lose soon"

[mraynrand]

Another interesting comparison might be to the 1994 49ers - I think they had 7 new FA starters that year, and they dipped a bit when those FAs aged and Young brained-out of the league, but didn't crater until after TO and Garcia...

[denverYooper]

This could also read "Broncos...built to lose soon"

Indeed it could. It is interesting being a fan of the TT/M3 Packers, who have taken a draft-and-develop approach and generally put a quality team on the field year after year, and live in the Denver market where they might have a wildly successful 3 year run with Manning but then crater and have to rebuild for a few years.

[Cheesehead Craig]

They had to build themselves to win now with Manning. He's done very soon. A SB there will placate the masses for several years while they get the rebuild under way. A SB tends to make the fans of the team much more forgiving.

[Bretsky]

Whether Seattle wins the Super Bowl, or Denver wins the Super Bowl.....the Champion GM gets a ton of credit for showing how to utilize free agency "and" the draft to allow his team to excel

[Bretsky]

I'm not sure there has been a better GM over the past few years than Seattle's; he's worked under two all stars but Schneider seems to have more Ron Wolf in him that TT IMO

[Rodgers12]

They had to build themselves to win now with Manning. He's done very soon. A SB there will placate the masses for several years while they get the rebuild under way. A SB tends to make the fans of the team much more forgiving.

Rebuilding is for losers. Denver doesn't need to rebuild. They have a roster stocked with players in their primes or entering their primes. They just need to find a competent replacement for P-Mann. Easier said than done.

Looking at the Broncos' rosters, you see "prime" players like Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Terrance Knighton, Rodgers-Comartie, and Wesley Woodyard.

You see players that will soon be entering their "primes" like Von Miller, Duke Ihenacho, Danny Trevathan, and even Montee Ball.

Core players that they'll need to replace soon (in addition to Manning, unless he plays til he's 44, as expected): Welker, Bailey, Mike Adams and Shaun Phillips. Take away these old-timers and the Broncos aren't that old. These guys don't spell "rebuild."

The Broncos might still lose some of their young uns. Thanks to the NFL's far-left wealth sharing system and the equally far-left salary cap. It's nice to see fat pigs with large bank accounts like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder get punished for spending money trying to improve their firms.

Denver is projected to be about $18 M below for next season. In other words, they're managing their cap efficiently.

Elway resembles that egomaniac that once ran the Packers' football operation, Ron Wolf. Recall how Wolf ran the draft, acquired veteran free agents and made trade happens?

[mraynrand]

Elway resembles that egomaniac that once ran the Packers' football operation, Ron Wolf. Recall how Wolf ran the draft, acquired veteran free agents and made trade happens?

Wolf was far more successful in acquiring pro talent than in drafting it. Favre, A. Green, K. Jackson, the entire SB-winning starting defensive line (White, Dotson. Brown, S. Jones), etc. etc.

[Zool]

Rodgers-Comartie

I don't think they'll be counting on DRC for very long.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24422045/broncos-cb-dominique-rodgers-cromartie-pondering-retirement

[Cheesehead Craig]

Rebuilding is for losers. Denver doesn't need to rebuild. They have a roster stocked with players in their primes or entering their primes. They just need to find a competent replacement for P-Mann. Easier said than done.

Looking at the Broncos' rosters, you see "prime" players like Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Terrance Knighton, Rodgers-Comartie, and Wesley Woodyard.

You see players that will soon be entering their "primes" like Von Miller, Duke Ihenacho, Danny Trevathan, and even Montee Ball.

Core players that they'll need to replace soon (in addition to Manning, unless he plays til he's 44, as expected): Welker, Bailey, Mike Adams and Shaun Phillips. Take away these old-timers and the Broncos aren't that old. These guys don't spell "rebuild."

The Broncos might still lose some of their young uns. Thanks to the NFL's far-left wealth sharing system and the equally far-left salary cap. It's nice to see fat pigs with large bank accounts like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder get punished for spending money trying to improve their firms.

Denver is projected to be about $18 M below for next season. In other words, they're managing their cap efficiently.

Elway resembles that egomaniac that once ran the Packers' football operation, Ron Wolf. Recall how Wolf ran the draft, acquired veteran free agents and made trade happens?

Like you said, replacing Manning when he does go is easier said than done. Getting a new franchise QB is harder than it looks. Yes, one can get lucky and get a Wilson, Luck, or Kap but there are more misses than hits and it all starts there.

Plus those core players you mentioned of Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Terrance Knighton, Rodgers-Comartie, and Wesley Woodyard along with Von Miller, Duke Ihenacho, Danny Trevathan, and even Montee Ball all are going to need to PAID soon. Sure the Broncos are under the cap now but a SB win starts raising players salary demands and the majority of these guys are massively underpaid. It just takes a few big contracts, having rookies or bargain basement FAs fill in for higher quality players who got paid elsewhere, and a QB who needs several seasons to get up to speed and you have a middling team who is trying to figure out how to compete again.

[denverYooper]

Rebuilding is for losers. Denver doesn't need to rebuild. They have a roster stocked with players in their primes or entering their primes. They just need to find a competent replacement for P-Mann. Easier said than done.

Looking at the Broncos' rosters, you see "prime" players like Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Terrance Knighton, Rodgers-Comartie, and Wesley Woodyard.

You see players that will soon be entering their "primes" like Von Miller, Duke Ihenacho, Danny Trevathan, and even Montee Ball.

Core players that they'll need to replace soon (in addition to Manning, unless he plays til he's 44, as expected): Welker, Bailey, Mike Adams and Shaun Phillips. Take away these old-timers and the Broncos aren't that old. These guys don't spell "rebuild."

The Broncos might still lose some of their young uns. Thanks to the NFL's far-left wealth sharing system and the equally far-left salary cap. It's nice to see fat pigs with large bank accounts like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder get punished for spending money trying to improve their firms.

Denver is projected to be about $18 M below for next season. In other words, they're managing their cap efficiently.

Elway resembles that egomaniac that once ran the Packers' football operation, Ron Wolf. Recall how Wolf ran the draft, acquired veteran free agents and made trade happens?

It's not so clean as that.

DRC is on a one year deal. He mentioned yesterday that he might just retire if they win the superbowl. If he doesn't retire, he'll probably want to get paid.

They have to decide soon if they want to pay Von Miller a lot of money. That will affect either the cap or his presence on the team. That's not going to be an easy decision because the defense has been fine without him and he brought a lot of headaches this year.

Decker and Woodyard are FAs, as is Knowshon Moreno. They have to decide who, of those three, they want to pay. The local feeling is that they should pay Decker and Moreno and let Woodyard walk. Coming into the season, the thought was that they would pay Woodyard and that Decker would probably leave in FA because he'd possibly want to get paid and his wife has designs on a country career elsewhere. But Woodyard got "benched" (or at least relegated to a third down role) for Trevathan midway through the year.

Ihenacho is the defense's Bigby: hits hard but can whiff spectacularly.

Thomas has really blossomed into a great player, and TE Julius Thomas looks like a steal also. Knighton has been a pleasant surprise for that team.

[Smidgeon]

They had to build themselves to win now with Manning. He's done very soon. A SB there will placate the masses for several years while they get the rebuild under way. A SB tends to make the fans of the team much more forgiving.

Unless you're Green Bay. Then two consecutive one-and-dones in the playoffs make the fans a little edgy. ;)

[mraynrand]

Unless you're Green Bay. Then two consecutive one-and-dones in the playoffs make the fans a little edgy. ;)

It's been five consecutive playoff appearances, and last year the Pack did win a playoff game, though I can see how people would forget about it since it wasn't a contest at all and was dramatically overshadowed by 579!

[Smidgeon]

It's been five consecutive playoff appearances, and last year the Pack did win a playoff game, though I can see how people would forget about it since it wasn't a contest at all and was dramatically overshadowed by 579!

Whoops, you're correct. I was remembering that the Pack got relatively a pass for the one-and-done in 2011 (since they went 15-1 during the year) and that the edginess came on after the 2012 playoffs, but I did forget they won one last year.

[mraynrand]

I was remembering that the Pack got relatively a pass for the one-and-done in 2011 (since they went 15-1 during the year)

I dunno about a pass, unless you mean 'pass gas.' That was a "Fart in the wind" kind of a loss.

[Rodgers12]

Like you said, replacing Manning when he does go is easier said than done. Getting a new franchise QB is harder than it looks. Yes, one can get lucky and get a Wilson, Luck, or Kap but there are more misses than hits and it all starts there.

Plus those core players you mentioned of Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Terrance Knighton, Rodgers-Comartie, and Wesley Woodyard along with Von Miller, Duke Ihenacho, Danny Trevathan, and even Montee Ball all are going to need to PAID soon. Sure the Broncos are under the cap now but a SB win starts raising players salary demands and the majority of these guys are massively underpaid. It just takes a few big contracts, having rookies or bargain basement FAs fill in for higher quality players who got paid elsewhere, and a QB who needs several seasons to get up to speed and you have a middling team who is trying to figure out how to compete again.

Denver won a playoff game with Ballhawk's classmate, the great Tim Tebow. That tells us Elway knows what he's doing, even though he strikes me as a typical CEO of corporate America. You know, the head guy who jack offs in his office all day while the ants below him do the all the dirty work and then he takes all the credits to go along with a sumptuous bonus or two.

[Rodgers12]

It's not so clean as that.

DRC is on a one year deal. He mentioned yesterday that he might just retire if they win the superbowl. If he doesn't retire, he'll probably want to get paid.

They have to decide soon if they want to pay Von Miller a lot of money. That will affect either the cap or his presence on the team. That's not going to be an easy decision because the defense has been fine without him and he brought a lot of headaches this year.

Decker and Woodyard are FAs, as is Knowshon Moreno. They have to decide who, of those three, they want to pay. The local feeling is that they should pay Decker and Moreno and let Woodyard walk. Coming into the season, the thought was that they would pay Woodyard and that Decker would probably leave in FA because he'd possibly want to get paid and his wife has designs on a country career elsewhere. But Woodyard got "benched" (or at least relegated to a third down role) for Trevathan midway through the year.

Ihenacho is the defense's Bigby: hits hard but can whiff spectacularly.

Thomas has really blossomed into a great player, and TE Julius Thomas looks like a steal also. Knighton has been a pleasant surprise for that team.

See post prior to this.

Elway has the tools to make Denver competitive for years, a la Ron Wolf.

[Rodgers12]

Wolf was far more successful in acquiring pro talent than in drafting it. Favre, A. Green, K. Jackson, the entire SB-winning starting defensive line (White, Dotson. Brown, S. Jones), etc. etc.

He had some nice draft picks: Levens, Freeman, D-Sharp, Clifton, Tausher, Newsome, Evans, Brooks, etc., etc.

Bottom line is, Wolf utilized the draft, free agency, trades, everything - so unlike the current GM of the Packers. That guy just hibernates and gives birth to rookies.

[bobblehead]

Whether Seattle wins the Super Bowl, or Denver wins the Super Bowl.....the Champion GM gets a ton of credit for showing how to utilize free agency "and" the draft to allow his team to excel

Don't forget PED's. And I think Denver signing Peyton isn't the same as using FA in the normal sense.

[bobblehead]

He had some nice draft picks: Levens, Freeman, D-Sharp, Clifton, Tausher, Newsome, Evans, Brooks, etc., etc.

Bottom line is, Wolf utilized the draft, free agency, trades, everything - so unlike the current GM of the Packers. That guy just hibernates and gives birth to rookies.

How did Wolf do managing the salary cap??

[Joemailman]

He had some nice draft picks: Levens, Freeman, D-Sharp, Clifton, Tausher, Newsome, Evans, Brooks, etc., etc.

Bottom line is, Wolf utilized the draft, free agency, trades, everything - so unlike the current GM of the Packers. That guy just hibernates and gives birth to rookies.

He's not hibernating. He's trapped in the closet.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If you have a true franchise QB still playing at a high level you are not rebuilding. Broncos will go into rebuilding if they can't find one after Manning calls it quits. But I agree that TT has not acquired as much talent as he could have had he used free agency a little more or traded for players who were available.

[smuggler]

Funny... both Wolf and Thompson have the same number of championships.

[Zool]

Funny... both Wolf and Thompson have the same number of championships.

Wolf had 11 years, Thompson is heading into the 9th. The past is always better than the present. Now sucks and things should go back to the way they were.

[Patler]

Funny... both Wolf and Thompson have the same number of championships.

Are you telling me he didn't win a championship every year????? :smile:

Must be because he wasn't blessed like TT is to have a possible uture HOF'er at QB,....oh.....wait, ....never mind.

Wolf just did it right. Thompson does it wrong!

[red]

Wolf had 11 years, Thompson is heading into the 9th. The past is always better than the present. Now sucks and things should go back to the way they were.

and there were some that thought wolf stayed around too long, his last few drafts were horrible

i wonder if in 5 years we're not also looking back at this period and wondering if TT was also in control for a few years too long

coaches and GM's usually have expiration dates, even the best ones. andy reid is a good example of a decent coach that stayed in one spot to long and ended up looking washed up before moving to a new team and all of a sudden looking like his old self

[Patler]

and there were some that thought wolf stayed around too long, his last few drafts were horrible

i wonder if in 5 years we're not also looking back at this period and wondering if TT was also in control for a few years too long

coaches and GM's usually have expiration dates, even the best ones. andy reid is a good example of a decent coach that stayed in one spot to long and ended up looking washed up before moving to a new team and all of a sudden looking like his old self

Very valid point. We had a decent discussion in here about that a couple years ago, I think right after the SB. One of the papers had an article about successful coaches, and most did significantly better the first halves of their careers. Do they get stale, or just become predictable?

[Cleft Crusty]

and there were some that thought wolf stayed around too long, his last few drafts were horrible

This is simply untrue. 1999 and 2001 were not good. 2000 was fantastic; in fact, the GM moves that Wolf executed in 2000 may have been the best in Packer history.

The Draft:

1 14 Bubba Franks TE Miami (FL)
2 44 Chad Clifton OG Tennessee
3 74 Steve Warren DT Nebraska
4 98 Na'il Diggs OLB Ohio St.
4 114 Anthony Lucas WR Arkansas
4 126 Gary Berry S Ohio St.
5 149 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila OLB San Diego St.
5 151 Joey Jamison WR Texas Southern
7 224 Mark Tauscher OG Wisconsin
7 229 Ron Moore DT NW Oklahoma St.
7 242 Charles Lee WR Central Florida
7 249 Eugene McCaslin OLB Florida
7 252 Rondell Mealey HB LSU

The draft netted five solid long-term starters.

The trade:

Injured Fred Vinson for Ahman Green; Green was in the top three in combined rush in receiving for a 5 year stretch behind Priest Holmes and LT.

The FAs: Russel Maryland - provided veteran inside/outside tackle presence at end of career. John Thierry - 6.5 sacks, David Bowens, 3.5 sacks, Allen Rossum, PR/KR - had just one return for TD in 2000 and 2001, until hurt, but increased averages for both - was explosive; most dynamic returner for Pack since Howard and none have eclipsed his talent since he left.

Coach - after Ray Rhodes, Mike Sherman was a nice return to a well-organized, highly effective coach; just not GM or championship material (the GM role was Harlan's worst mistake, not Sherman's fault)

This was a team that got stronger as the season progressed and defeated eventual NFC Championship losers the Minnesota Vikings at Minnesota late in the season; Vonnie Holliday injured Culpepper's ankle, rendering him ineffective for Vikings playoff run, dooming them to a 44-0 drubbing.

The nucleus of 2000 set the Packers up for half a decade of success, and should have resulted in a Superbowl in 2002, if not for a terrible string of injuries (sound familiar?)

[bobblehead]

I was long pissed off that Wolf let Holmgren walk because Holmy wanted to GM and coach, then 2 years later he handed both roles to Sherman.