Packers 2014 Offseason: Does Green Bay Need to Sign a Center? [Archive]

woodbuck27

01-29-2014, 02:42 AM

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2014/1/28/5355020/packers-2014-offseason-center-need-dietrich-smith-jc-trotter

2014 Offseason Roster Evaluations

Packers 2014 Offseason: Does Green Bay Need to Sign a Center?

By: Evan "Tex" Western  @TexWestern on Jan 28 2014, 4:01PM

" The Packers have virtually no professional experience at center remaining under contract for 2014. We argue that bringing Dietrich-Smith back is an urgently-needed and prudent move. " FR. LINK

woodbuck27

01-29-2014, 02:54 AM

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2014-packers-roster-evaluation/2014/1/28/5351092/packers-2014-offseason-review-evan-dietrich-smith-center-grade

Packers 2014 Offseason Review: Evan Dietrich-Smith Solid at Center

By DanTurczynski  @DanTurczynski on Jan 28 2014, 9:00a

GO PACK GO !

woodbuck27

01-29-2014, 03:03 AM

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2014-packers-roster-evaluation/2014/1/28/5354208/packers-2014-offseason-center-free-agency-nfl-draft

Packers 2014 Offseason: Possible Free Agent and Draft Targets at Center

By: DanTurczynski  @DanTurczynski on Jan 28 2014, 2:00 PM

GO PACKERS !

run pMc

01-29-2014, 08:15 AM

Depends on if EDS signs with GB or signs elsewhere.
If someone throws silly money at EDS then they need to find someone to compete with Tretter.
EDS was a UDFA and I don't think TT wants to spend a lot on that spot, so Alex Mack is not going to happen.

"Sign a C" might mean bringing in a UDFA or take a C-G swing player in the late rounds.
I thought Van Roten could play C but maybe I'm wrong. They'll go into camp with at least 3 players getting snaps at C.

mraynrand

01-29-2014, 08:31 AM

Mack has started all 80 games for the Cleveland Browns, and has molded the Browns' offensive line into one of the NFL's best.
news to me

With Finley out of the picture, it's time to...

BRING BLACK WELLS!

smuggler

01-29-2014, 08:36 AM

They need a number 2 slash fallback for Tretter

pbmax

01-29-2014, 08:40 AM

Let's just say what needs to be said; trade EDS for Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn.

mraynrand

01-29-2014, 08:57 AM

Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn.

The future is now!

Josh Weeden and Trent Richardson

The future is now!

Johnny Manziel and Ra'Shede Hageman

The future is now!

Bretsky

01-29-2014, 08:45 PM

I don't buy into the need to resign EDS; he's a 3 Mil a year guy
He's an average center IMO....well...I think he's average....but nothing to break a bank on

I think on the open market he'll garner over 3 MIL per year and he's looking to get paid IMO

pittstang5

01-30-2014, 08:05 AM

At this point, with all the potential FA players the Packers could lose, I really don't think keeping or losing EDS is that big of a deal. If we keep him, good, if not, I don't think it's the end of world. Shields - well, that's a different story.

IMO, EDS is average/below average at best. Worse case scenario, I don't think there would be much drop off from EDS to Tretter. Tretter has the measurables and intelligence to be a good center. Granted he doesn't have any NFL game experience, but he has this whole offseason to train and get ready. Coaches were pretty high on him, but again, that doesn't mean squat until he plays.

The Packers have Tretter, Van Roten and Gehart. I'd like to see them add a Vet. FA to compete as well but I have no clue who would be available. I think Gehart is TC fodder. Van Roten can be plugged into any of the interior lineman spots - he's strictly a back up. Sign a Vet. center and let Tretter and said vet fight it out in TC.

If TT doesn't bring in a Vet, maybe he drafts a center. But TT tends to draft tackles for interior o-line positions and then expects them to play all interior positions - which is fine, if you have five solid starting o-lineman.

Patler

01-30-2014, 08:12 AM

Is EDS nothing more than the offense's version of Brad Jones? Less? More?

MadScientist

01-30-2014, 08:19 AM

EDS would be a good backup, but he started all last season and will expect starter money. Tretter may become a good center, but at the moment all we have a few minutes in practice to go on, and that is a big risk. The Packers have to have someone capable of playing center at a passable level, so they have to sign someone. Perhaps they can do something with EDS so he gets a contract with minimal signing bonus so they can cut him or renegotiate it to backup level pay if Tretter does pan out. They'd be overpaying for 1 year, but it wouldn't be an anchor of a contract for the future.

run pMc

01-30-2014, 08:34 AM

Well, he's better than Jeff Saturday, but I agree you don't break the bank with him. If they like Tretter (some scouts liked him more than Bahktiari) they'll let EDS walk -- I think everything from $ to years are going to be sticking points; I don't know that you want to sink a lot of either on EDS if you have his replacement on the roster already. I'd rather they sign Shields and bring in a cheap vet or draft an interior OL to push Tretter.

That Saturday got a Pro Bowl nod last year tells you something about the C position (and the voters knowledge) -- I think they can probably plug somebody else in there. Historically C was where you put the smallest/weakest guy on the line; with all the A gap blitzes and monster DT's I think that's changed, but IMO it's an easier spot to fill than OT, QB or RB.

The comparison with Brad Jones is probably apt -- which scares me. The more I think about it, the more I'm ok with EDS signing elsewhere.

bobblehead

01-30-2014, 08:37 AM

Is EDS nothing more than the offense's version of Brad Jones? Less? More?

Linemen don't get situation substitutions so I don't think that is a good comparison. Jones has nickel value (although debatable how much.) EDS is a solid every snap player. He has more value than Jones in my book. I honestly believe the Jones and Burnett deals were bad deals in reaction to needing "veterans/continuity" on defense. I would have let Jones walk and kept Bishop for my gamble. I would have put off any Burnett deal another year.

My strategy for the defense this year would be to make sign one of many DL available in FA, sign shields and then if I can possibly afford it, sign one of the 2 big name Safeties. I would offer Neal a deal based on his play NOW, not what I think he might be. I would lowball the rest and let them walk if they wanted.

In the past I would have resigned Wells, but with EDS I would offer him 4 years $18 million, and structure it as 2 years 8 million with a million dead money if I cut him.

Patler

01-30-2014, 08:51 AM

When he was healthy in 2012, Jones didn't leave the field after he took over. He was an every down linebacker.

Pugger

01-30-2014, 10:42 AM

When he was healthy in 2012, Jones didn't leave the field after he took over. He was an every down linebacker.

Then perhaps we should hope Jones' mediocre play in 2013 was due to injury and he'll return to 2012 form.

Guiness

01-30-2014, 11:46 AM

The Packers have to have someone capable of playing center at a passable level, so they have to sign someone.

Have to? lol, are you paying attention to the same team, run by the same GM as I am? I fully expect 10+ first year players on the Pack again this year.

If TT will go into the season with a rookie protecting the franchise's blindside, I don't think he'd bat an eyelash at putting Tretter out there week 1.

Having said that, I'd like to see EDS back. I don't think he'll cost that much. The question might be what other positions he can back up if they expect Tretter to start.

run pMc

01-30-2014, 04:29 PM

Have to? lol, are you paying attention to the same team, run by the same GM as I am? I fully expect 10+ first year players on the Pack again this year.

If TT will go into the season with a rookie protecting the franchise's blindside, I don't think he'd bat an eyelash at putting Tretter out there week 1.

Having said that, I'd like to see EDS back. I don't think he'll cost that much. The question might be what other positions he can back up if they expect Tretter to start.

They have something like 17 RFA and UFA's, so you can bet TT will see youth served. I've heard EDS is the #2 ranked FA Center behind Alex Mack, if that's true he'll get some interest, but I don't know that he'll get a Scott Wells-like offer. He doesn't have the reputation/track record Wells did when he left, and most teams don't want to throw a lot of money at C. EDS has proved he can backup the G spot, so he's not a one position OL.
The bigger question is if he comes back do you risk a legit competition between him and Tretter? Depends on what you're paying him, I suppose, but most teams can't afford to have a backup center making $3-4million on your roster.
The longer this gets debated, the more I think TT lets EDS shop around and if there's no big money thrown his way they make him a modest offer, otherwise they'll draft a C or sign a couple of UDFA's to compete with Tretter. They extended Lang and Sitton mid-season; they didn't with EDS when they could have. Maybe that's reading between the lines, but I'm thinking it's about 75/25 that he's gone.

PaCkFan_n_MD

01-30-2014, 04:52 PM

I have a really good feeling about Tretter so I'm in favor of letting EDS go and rolling with him. If you can bring back EDS on a cheap contract I think having him back would be good insurance though.

Bretsky

01-30-2014, 05:05 PM

Is EDS nothing more than the offense's version of Brad Jones? Less? More?

I think he's better than Just a Jones

smuggler

01-30-2014, 09:23 PM

I would prefer to have EDS back, cost aside, but he'd be a backup next year, so I don't think he will be. We would want him for ~1mil/yr and he could probably get three to four times that on the open market, so why would he return?

woodbuck27

03-05-2014, 12:47 AM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1949460-br-nfl-1000-top-34-centers/page/31

NFL Overall Rank @ Center:

@ NO. 5. - Evan Dietrich-Smith, Green Bay Packers.

1. Alex Mack, Cleveland Browns

2. Jason Kelce, Philadelphia Eagles

3. Dominic Raiola, Detroit Lions

4. John Sullivan, Minnesota Vikings

********************************

6. Mike Pouncey, Miami Dolphins

7. Manny Ramirez, Denver Broncos

8. Roberto Garza, Chicago Bears

9. Stefen Wisniewski, Oakland Raiders

10. Chris Myers, Houston Texans

GO PACK GO !

pbmax

03-05-2014, 11:09 AM

That list is for the birds.

QBME

03-05-2014, 11:17 AM

That list is for the birds.

If, by that, you mean that 40% of the players listed (including the top three) have been re-signed and thus rendering the list diminished in usefulness you would be absolutely correct.

pbmax

03-05-2014, 11:21 AM

If, by that, you mean that 40% of the players listed (including the top three) have been re-signed and thus rendering the list diminished in usefulness you would be absolutely correct.

That and the idea that EDS is the fifth best center in football means the person who wrote it is comically inept at player review. Even the Packers want him replaced.

red

03-05-2014, 01:32 PM

That and the idea that EDS is the fifth best center in football means the person who wrote it is comically inept at player review. Even the Packers want him replaced.

yeah, i've been a little baffled at how some of these guys can rank EDS so high

do they actually watch our games? i think they just rank him so high because they actually knows his name, thanks to suh stomping on his arm

imo, eds isn't bad, but also nothing special

Striker

03-05-2014, 01:37 PM

I think EDS is probably above average. He won't blow you away, but he's a solid player and a capable starter.

Fritz

03-05-2014, 01:53 PM

pbmax

03-05-2014, 02:35 PM

I think EDS is probably above average. He won't blow you away, but he's a solid player and a capable starter.

He is an effective pass blocker. He is a poor run blocker. That's a tough skill set at center.

woodbuck27

03-10-2014, 09:17 AM

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-focus-centers-around-dietrich-smith-as-he-hits-open-market-b99220553z1-249089031.html

Packers focus centers around Dietrich-Smith as he hits open market.

GO PACK GO !

bobblehead

03-10-2014, 02:15 PM

KYPack

03-10-2014, 02:42 PM

yeah, i've been a little baffled at how some of these guys can rank EDS so high

do they actually watch our games? i think they just rank him so high because they actually knows his name, thanks to suh stomping on his arm

imo, eds isn't bad, but also nothing special

That's why it's the bleacher report.

It's written by fans.

Many of them not as knowledgeable as your average PR poster, APiS.

Assuming Poster is Sober and not fucked up on dope.

Pouncey, Wisniewski, and Garza are way better than EDS.

Zool

03-10-2014, 03:06 PM

That's why it's the bleacher report.

It's written by fans.

Many of them not as knowledgeable as your average PR poster, APiS.

Assuming Poster is Sober and not fucked up on dope.

Pouncey, Wisniewski, and Garza are way better than EDS.

I've been wondering how my opinion of EDS was so far off. He gets walked backwards far too often to be on any sort of list.

run pMc

03-10-2014, 03:45 PM

Pouncey, Wisniewski, and Garza are way better than EDS.

Agree. Garza is older but he just re-upped for I think 1y/1.5M. Raiola did the same IIRC. Not sure that exactly sets the bar for EDS, but given he's a one year starter and his ceiling isn't much higher than his floor I don't think he's gonna get Scott Wells money regardless of how much Rodgers likes him or what the JSO says. Plus GB is talking as though they like Tretter a lot.

If you're gonna spend Scott Wells money on a C, I'd take Pouncey. Still has some miles left, has had some good seasons, and is a better athlete.

Guiness

03-10-2014, 04:33 PM

That's why it's the bleacher report.

It's written by fans.

Many of them not as knowledgeable as your average PR poster, APiS.

Assuming Poster is Sober and not fucked up on dope.

Pouncey, Wisniewski, and Garza are way better than EDS.

Ya, there was one article that Woody posted showing him as the #5 center in the NFL, attributing pro-bowl level pass blocking ability to him. That same article has Max Unger and Nick Mangold at #16 and 17...

smuggler

03-10-2014, 04:51 PM

Not so sure Garza and Riaola are better than EDS. I think they're bottom half at this point in their careers. EDS is pretty average.

mraynrand

03-10-2014, 05:28 PM

Agree. Garza is older but he just re-upped for I think 1y/1.5M. Raiola did the same IIRC. Not sure that exactly sets the bar for EDS, but given he's a one year starter and his ceiling isn't much higher than his floor I don't think he's gonna get Scott Wells money regardless of how much Rodgers likes him or what the JSO says. Plus GB is talking as though they like Tretter a lot.

If you're gonna spend Scott Wells money on a C, I'd take Pouncey. Still has some miles left, has had some good seasons, and is a better athlete.

With the money we save on Finley: BRING BLACK WELLS!!!

woodbuck27

03-10-2014, 07:45 PM

Ya, there was one article that Woody posted showing him as the #5 center in the NFL, attributing pro-bowl level pass blocking ability to him. That same article has Max Unger and Nick Mangold at #16 and 17...

I post them I don't write them.

If members here find disagreement with an article that's what a forum is for. To discuss things.

Try to get it straighter.

red

03-10-2014, 08:11 PM

If you're gonna spend Scott Wells money on a C, I'd take Pouncey. Still has some miles left, has had some good seasons, and is a better athlete.

and is a complete and total piece of shit, who may or may not have been directly involved in the hernandez killing spree

and depending on which pouncey we're talking about, he could have been the ring leader of all the disfunctional chaos that happened in miami this year

red

03-10-2014, 08:13 PM

Ya, there was one article that Woody posted showing him as the #5 center in the NFL, attributing pro-bowl level pass blocking ability to him. That same article has Max Unger and Nick Mangold at #16 and 17...

i saw a blip on espn at the bar today that had EDS as the 2nd highest ranked o-lineman available with a B+ rating for last season

again, do these people actually watch our games?

KYPack

03-10-2014, 09:57 PM

red

03-10-2014, 10:02 PM

EDS has pretty good feet and does well in pass pro. In pass pro he doubles pretty quickly, but when singled up he has strength issues. I've seen him get walked back more than once myself He seems to be up on his line calls, but that doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Decent on the gun snap, gets it there in good shape for the QB consistently. In fact, his gun snap is his biggest strength.

Run blocking, not powerful and isn't all that quick for a guy who can scuttle around pretty good in pass pro. A reach block? Fuggitabouit. Saturday took reach blocks out of our playbook and EDS can't make 'em either.

I'd be shocked if EDS gets a multi year deal with another team, but this year may shock us all.

see, i don't agree with that. i noticed it a lot more when flynn and the other backups were in, but then continued to see it when a-rod was back. the QB's had to "go get" the ball a lot in the gun. either the snap was short, or wide left and right. and didn't a couple sail over the QB's heads?

i remember thinking a lot this year that it cannot be that hard to get the ball 3 or 4 hards and right into the QB's hands so he doesn't have to move all around to get it

pbmax

03-10-2014, 11:24 PM

Answer to OP question, do Packers need to sign a Center if EDS leaves?

Nope, there are two on the team (Tretter, Lang). But can't say I like the second option.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/page.php?page_id=278

pbmax

03-10-2014, 11:24 PM

Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 2h
I'm told wide out James Jones receiving heavy interest from the Detroit Lions & New York Jets...Green Bay Packers may still be in the mix..

pbmax

03-10-2014, 11:32 PM

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4h
Source: #Bears are now targeting #Raiders star defensive end Lamarr Houston after missing out on Michael Bennett. They are pushing hard

pbmax

03-10-2014, 11:40 PM

Sources have said coach Mike McCarthy wants taller, quicker players at the end positions so that he can interchange them with players like Datone Jones, Mike Daniels and Jerel Worthy and have an active pass rush no matter who is on the field.

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-eye-their-targets-as-nfl-free-agency-begins-b99222083z1-249380011.html#ixzz2vcqwcSxJ
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

Silverstein has gone with this twice now so he is not just throwing this out there. Still not sure if its a source other than Ian Rapoport. You would think so, given there is no citation given.

red

03-10-2014, 11:42 PM

you're in the wrong thread i think pb

run pMc

03-11-2014, 08:10 AM

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4h
Source: #Bears are now targeting #Raiders star defensive end Lamarr Houston after missing out on Michael Bennett. They are pushing hard

JSO reporting that contract demands for Houston are climbing due to interest from several teams, GB appears to be bowing out.

As for EDS, I'm amazed he's rated so high when he's just so-so, but there aren't a lot of great C's in the league. I'd take EDS over Raiola and probably Garza. Sullivan is the best C in the NFCN.

I know a reach block isn't often easy to execute, but why is it so hard to find a C who can reach block? Is it that important to M3's offense/blocking schemes?

red, I agree Pouncey is a POS but he's a better C than EDS. I wouldn't pay big money for EDS but I wouldn't complain if he's back on a contract around 2y/3.5M and competes with Tretter. I think he'll sign for more than that.
From what I've seen Lang is not a C...they might as well put Barclay at C. Maybe he'd get better with practice snaps, but the offense suffered with Lang at C.

pbmax

03-11-2014, 08:42 AM

you're in the wrong thread i think pb

Whoops. You're right.

KYPack

03-11-2014, 10:54 AM

see, i don't agree with that. i noticed it a lot more when flynn and the other backups were in, but then continued to see it when a-rod was back. the QB's had to "go get" the ball a lot in the gun. either the snap was short, or wide left and right. and didn't a couple sail over the QB's heads?

i remember thinking a lot this year that it cannot be that hard to get the ball 3 or 4 hards and right into the QB's hands so he doesn't have to move all around to get it

I don't remember the bad snaps, but you might be right.

The "back-up period" is a bit of a blur for me anyhow.

Maybe EDS was trying to help the team, by not giving Tolzein the ball so he could damage us.

We need a decent center, but I don't think we need to pay EDS a bunch of $ to keep him around.

We are paying big bucks for the two guards, a "value" center is what we need payroll wise.