Classic McGinn--JS---"Packers should take Page out of Broncos Book"

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-should-take-a-page-out-of-the-broncos-book-b99194473z1-242694431.html

[run pMc]

It's a copycat league; McGinn is justifying his trip to NYC by cranking this stuff out. Haven't checked to see how many pieces he's written about SEA and how TT should copy their approach.

[Old School]

I guess McGinn forgot about Jeff Saturday.

[denverYooper]

We had to know it was coming to this eventually.

[pbmax]

So we should let Clay Matthews go to the Ravens?

[denverYooper]

If Manning missed 8 games, Denver wouldn't have made the playoffs. Everything is gravy when the franchise QB stays on his feet.

[denverYooper]

So we should let Clay Matthews go to the Ravens?

Does he or his agent have a fax machine?

[ThunderDan]

How did Seattle build its roster?

McGinn is right on one hand and chooses not to really look at the other hand.

[Cleft Crusty]

Perhaps my old friend at the JSO forgets that the Packers have to play in the NFC and get by both San Francisco and Seattle to get to the Superbowl. Or perhaps he forgot that a fellow named Rodgers missed a number of games, ironically right after McGinn forwarded the thesis that the Packers would be just fin without him - perhaps much like the Colts after Manning was hurt. McGinn is too often engaging in two fatal flaws late in his esteemed career: 1) Bandwagon reporting - some successful team this year must be doing something better, so the Packers should consider their approach. 2) Blindly throwing darts at a 'topic' dartboard with only controversial/outrageous topics on it (the Skip Bayless stratagem) . Every once in a while you'll be right, but more often than not you will end up with bigger, stronger egg on your face.

[red]

did anyone actually read the fucking article? or anything past the first paragraph?

i like the idea

i think our over reliance on rookies and undrafted rookies to play key roles as backups is when has been hurting us. these guys aren't ready to play, its as simple as that

denver goes out and gets nfl vets for dirt cheap and signs them to one year deals to be backups. then if your starter goes down, you have someone with nfl experience to step in, you don't have some kid out there who doesn't know his head from his asshole.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think McGinn has great resources, and I love the information that he posts that come from scouts, etc. However, he does tend to put out these head scratching articles. In the same article that he says the Packers should follow the Broncos path (they never will, whether they sign a FA or two this offseason or not), he glosses over the young team that the Broncos are playing in the Super Bowl--a team built by somebody who came from the Green Bay front office.

[bobblehead]

I stopped reading when McGinn praised them for overcoming injuries to 5 starters and a nickel back. Lets see them lose both starting Tackles and the nickel back before the first game. How about having them lose the quarterback for 8 games and their best OLB for a bunch, including the playoffs. Lets see them play defense without von miller and champ bailey (effectively what we were doing against SF). How about losing Eric Decker for most of the year (Cobb), then have Julius Thomas go down (Finley). For good measure lets remove their equivalent of JJones for a few games.

What we will get to see is how their offense works against a real defense (with all their weapons healthy)....something we had to do without the tackles or Finley.

Yea, we should consider the denver model...of staying healthy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

did anyone actually read the fucking article? or anything past the first paragraph?

i like the idea

i think our over reliance on rookies and undrafted rookies to play key roles as backups is when has been hurting us. these guys aren't ready to play, its as simple as that

denver goes out and gets nfl vets for dirt cheap and signs them to one year deals to be backups. then if your starter goes down, you have someone with nfl experience to step in, you don't have some kid out there who doesn't know his head from his asshole.

We've gotten plenty of dirt cheap FAs, but they rarely work out. I'm okay with opening the purse strings a little to find a veteran safety. Otherwise, I like the approach TT takes. I think we are a safety, another dynamic front seven player, and some good health away from being near the top of the list of contenders again.

[red]

I think McGinn has great resources, and I love the information that he posts that come from scouts, etc. However, he does tend to put out these head scratching articles. In the same article that he says the Packers should follow the Broncos path (they never will, whether they sign a FA or two this offseason or not), he glosses over the young team that the Broncos are playing in the Super Bowl--a team built by somebody who came from the Green Bay front office.

and that young team in seattle signed a couple a vets to 1(bennett) and 2 (avril) year deals this season and those 2 guys have been huge contributors for them. so the seahawks also took a "page out of the broncos book" if you will

we had the cap space where we could have sprinkled in a some free agent vets like the broncos did with shawn phillips for a million bucks (12 sacks) or seattle did with bennett (5 million for 1 year)

we need experience on this team, we need guys that can show all these 21 and 22 year olds how to practice and prepare for games and play at an nfl level when he gets on the field

[Fritz]

did anyone actually read the fucking article? or anything past the first paragraph?

i like the idea

i think our over reliance on rookies and undrafted rookies to play key roles as backups is when has been hurting us. these guys aren't ready to play, its as simple as that

denver goes out and gets nfl vets for dirt cheap and signs them to one year deals to be backups. then if your starter goes down, you have someone with nfl experience to step in, you don't have some kid out there who doesn't know his head from his asshole.


yes, I did read the article, and it struck me that the signing of cheap vet FA's is exactly what so many Packer fans have been bitching about Ted doing in his career here. Ted scours the bottom of the FA barrel, signs vets to the minimum or close to it, and brings them to camp while everybody bitches that he isn't signing the big-name guys.

[Zool]

Are there 30 newspapers around the country with this same article and we just don't read them? Or is the Urinal Scented the only one that posts contrived, simple articles?

They did a thing that worked. Other teams should do that to. All 32 teams should be in the Superbowl every season.

[red]

yes, I did read the article, and it struck me that the signing of cheap vet FA's is exactly what so many Packer fans have been bitching about Ted doing in his career here. Ted scours the bottom of the FA barrel, signs vets to the minimum or close to it, and brings them to camp while everybody bitches that he isn't signing the big-name guys.

like who saturday? thats 1 guy in the last 5 years.

i'm not talking about signing undrafted rookies or bottom of the roster fodder from other teams. i'm talking about vets that have actual playing and starting experience in the nfl

we tried it with saturday, we tried it with klemm, we tried it with o'dwyer. those guys unfortunately didn't work out, but none of them cost us a ton of money to try out

[Smidgeon]

I wonder what the hit rate is for retread veterans. For every Shawn Phillips and his 12 sacks for $1MM, how many are complete failures?

I think cheap veterans are worth a shot, but they more often than not don't work out: a la Mulligan or whatever that TE's name was.

[pbmax]

I wonder what the hit rate is for retread veterans. For every Shawn Phillips and his 12 sacks for $1MM, how many are complete failures?

I think cheap veterans are worth a shot, but they more often than not don't work out: a la Mulligan or whatever that TE's name was.

Phillips can be an indifferent pass rusher, that's part of the reason SD let him go. However, Denver's offense has set him up for success by scoring at a prolific rate and forcing a lot of opponents to pass.

One thing McGinn fails to consider is that EVERY FA pickup the Packer made looked good in 2010 when teams abandoned the run often versus the Packers, letting the pass rushers and ball hawkers in the secondary play to their strengths.

This does not always work, as evidenced by the League record worst D the Packers played while the offense was setting its own scoring records in 2011. But just as key injuries can torpedo a D, a key FA might also be limited in exactly the correct way (Howard Green) to serve a limited role with a Super Bowl winning team.

[woodbuck27]

Perhaps my old friend at the JSO forgets that the Packers have to play in the NFC and get by both San Francisco and Seattle to get to the Superbowl. Or perhaps he forgot that a fellow named Rodgers missed a number of games, ironically right after McGinn forwarded the thesis that the Packers would be just fin without him - perhaps much like the Colts after Manning was hurt. McGinn is too often engaging in two fatal flaws late in his esteemed career: 1) Bandwagon reporting - some successful team this year must be doing something better, so the Packers should consider their approach. 2) Blindly throwing darts at a 'topic' dartboard with only controversial/outrageous topics on it (the Skip Bayless stratagem) . Every once in a while you'll be right, but more often than not you will end up with bigger, stronger egg on your face.

Whatever Bob McGinn writes is moot.

The GM of the Green Bay Packers is .... Ted Thompson.

The Head coach of the Green Bay Packers is .... Mike McCarthy.

They regularly enjoy this song :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrILFP1vc0

[call_me_ishmael]

I wonder what the hit rate is for retread veterans. For every Shawn Phillips and his 12 sacks for $1MM, how many are complete failures?

I think cheap veterans are worth a shot, but they more often than not don't work out: a la Mulligan or whatever that TE's name was.

But... he was never a player. Shawn Phillips was.

[ThunderDan]

I wonder what the hit rate is for retread veterans. For every Shawn Phillips and his 12 sacks for $1MM, how many are complete failures?

I think cheap veterans are worth a shot, but they more often than not don't work out: a la Mulligan or whatever that TE's name was.

I heard on the radio that Denver signed 18 FA and have 6 that play.

[bobblehead]

Whatever Bob McGinn writes is moot.

The GM of the Green Bay Packers is .... Ted Thompson.

The Head coach of the Green Bay Packers is .... Mike McCarthy.

They regularly enjoy this song :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrILFP1vc0

They should do it some other way than the one they think is right?

[Cleft Crusty]

They should do it some other way than the one they think is right?

Packer fans want the Packer organization to do what other teams do to get to and win the Super Bowl every year. Since it's obvious to people with even a speck of common sense that this is impossible, the next thing to do (like McGinn) is to point to the successful team(s) for the current year and say the Packers should be doing what they do. The interesting thing for Crusty is that - to my knowledge - I don't recall so much fans and beat writers arguing that other teams should be doing it GB's way when the Packers won it all.

It's human nature - even in Green Bay, the grass is greener elsewhere...

[woodbuck27]

They should do it some other way than the one they think is right?

Instead of thinking your doing something right.

pool every possible resource..tap in "Big Time" .

Utilize all you need to better ensure (not just think) a better (not good enough) rather A BEST OUTCOME.

A whole 'Motherload" of that is practically FREE.

TT and MM have to yse "common sense"...based in certain intelligence.

They're obviously getting it WRONG.

Use what has always served me well or the "Two To One Odds ALWAY's WIN Theory. Three straight seasons wrong would dictate that's more than a reasonable direction or improvement in their failing strategy.

Hey ... I'd even act to assist or tutor them...for say "on the cheap for them"...ahh... $500 K$ for 9 months.

[HarveyWallbangers]

and that young team in seattle signed a couple a vets to 1(bennett) and 2 (avril) year deals this season and those 2 guys have been huge contributors for them. so the seahawks also took a "page out of the broncos book" if you will

we had the cap space where we could have sprinkled in a some free agent vets like the broncos did with shawn phillips for a million bucks (12 sacks) or seattle did with bennett (5 million for 1 year)

we need experience on this team, we need guys that can show all these 21 and 22 year olds how to practice and prepare for games and play at an nfl level when he gets on the field

Well, Bennett was a cheap FA pickup on a one year deal. TT has made some of these types of signings (Saturday and others earlier in his tenure), but they haven't worked out very well. Avril was a bigger signing, but Thompson has had his Woodson and Pickett signings. We'll see. Schneider has made more trades (non-draft) than Thompson, but a lot of what he is doing mirrors what Thompson does. It helps Seattle that Wilson is playing on his rookie contract. When he gets his $10-15M/year, the purse strings will tighten even further in Seattle.

[red]

I heard on the radio that Denver signed 18 FA and have 6 that play.

that could be, we probably have about 18 undrafted rookies on the team with 15 or so of them playing when maybe only 1 or 2 should have even been on the roster

at least they are using all options for trying to build their team. i would also guess that they are still drafting players they think will be decent some day. its not like they are gonna now go out and draft a bunch of players they think are shit because they have vet free agents playing for them

[Rodgers12]

Look back at '96 and '97. Wolf acquired plenty of veterans of NFL wars to lead his young uns. McGinn is correct.

A seasoned veteran would NOT have fucked this up:

http://www.packers.com/assets/images/imported/GB/photos/article_images/2014/01-january/140105-locker-room-300.jpg

[Joemailman]

Packer fans want the Packer organization to do what other teams do to get to and win the Super Bowl every year. Since it's obvious to people with even a speck of common sense that this is impossible, the next thing to do (like McGinn) is to point to the successful team(s) for the current year and say the Packers should be doing what they do. The interesting thing for Crusty is that - to my knowledge - I don't recall so much fans and beat writers arguing that other teams should be doing it GB's way when the Packers won it all.

It's human nature - even in Green Bay, the grass is greener elsewhere...

Wow. I'm starting to think like Cleft Crusty. Does this mean I'm going to start falling apart physically?

[Rodgers12]

BTW, Micah Hyde last season: ZERO, 0, NADA, NULL, SEFR, RIE picks.

Kaepernick threw him a gift and the idiot rookie still dropped it.

Grrrr. Thinking about it makes me angry.

[Joemailman]

BTW, Micah Hyde last season: ZERO, 0, NADA, NULL, SEFR, RIE picks.

Kaepernick threw him a gift and the idiot rookie still dropped it.

Grrrr. Thinking about it makes me angry.

That would be the same amount of picks as our seasoned veterans at Safety.

[mraynrand]

Look back at '96 and '97. Wolf acquired plenty of veterans of NFL wars to lead his young uns. McGinn is correct.

A seasoned veteran would NOT have fucked this up:

http://www.packers.com/assets/images/imported/GB/photos/article_images/2014/01-january/140105-locker-room-300.jpg

You must be right!

http://www3.jsonline.com/packer/arc/0117/image/irvin1.jpg

[Rodgers12]

That would be the same amount of picks as our seasoned veterans at Safety.

Our safeties suck. I guarantee you Tramon Williams would NOT have dropped that gift. In the clutch, in the playoffs, you just cannot drop a gimmie pick like a rookie.

[mraynrand]

Our safeties suck. I guarantee you Tramon Williams would NOT have dropped that gift. In the clutch, in the playoffs, you just cannot drop a gimmie pick like a rookie.

When you are going toe to toe with an equally matched rival, the one who blinks first loses!

Hyde was a manicure away from an INT!

[Patler]

In 2012:
Jeff Saturday was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Cedric Benson was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Daniel Muir was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Anthony Hargrove was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Philip Merling was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Ryan Grant was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.

Saturday, Benson, Merling and Grant all spent time on the regular roster.

In 2013:
Johnny Jolly was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Mathew Mulligan was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Vince Young was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Seneca Wallace was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Matt Flynn was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Kahlil Bell was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.

Jolly, Wallace, Flynn and Bell all spent time on the regular roster.


But McGinn and others are right, the Packers NEVER sign experienced, cheap, veteran FA's in attempts to fill short-term needs.

[denverYooper]

Look back at '96 and '97. Wolf acquired plenty of veterans of NFL wars to lead his young uns. McGinn is correct.

A seasoned veteran would NOT have fucked this up:

http://www.packers.com/assets/images/imported/GB/photos/article_images/2014/01-january/140105-locker-room-300.jpg

Holy wah. That picture makes it look like a much tougher catch than it seemed when watching it live.

[woodbuck27]

When you are going toe to toe with an equally matched rival, the one who blinks first loses!

Hyde was a manicure away from an INT!

It's more complex 'm'.

I assure you "as a warrior", as a competitor in many areas that can be used to draw on to the other, it's closer to this:

A competition 'only ' exists because of a clash between two wills.

When it goes down...whoever breaks the other’s will is going to win. It's got dick all to do with eye blinks. It’s a street fight between experienced scrappers. Both possessing clear skills and the two's 'S's'... style and strength. One must react to the other in terms of being flexible in alternating styles/skills. In "mano-o-mano physical, finesse trumps strength.

You must clearly know your opponent and never under estimate his skills. Overconfidence is a killer in any contest; and without good nerves "your dead in the water". It's no place for masochism. You bring your fear, anxiety/nervousness, having beforehand excitedly envisioned or shaped the victory.

As you anticipate your opponent, observation is your "best friend". You know "the watcher" role. Constantly preparing, yet never anticipating.

After that it's intelligence, humility and readiness. Once in the mix... cools the tool...aggression "the fools walk".

[red]

In 2012:
Jeff Saturday was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Cedric Benson was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Daniel Muir was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Anthony Hargrove was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Philip Merling was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Ryan Grant was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.

Saturday, Benson, Merling and Grant all spent time on the regular roster.

In 2013:
Johnny Jolly was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Mathew Mulligan was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Vince Young was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Seneca Wallace was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Matt Flynn was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Kahlil Bell was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.

Jolly, Wallace, Flynn and Bell all spent time on the regular roster.


But McGinn and others are right, the Packers NEVER sign experienced, cheap, veteran FA's in attempts to fill short-term needs.

christ, i forgot about most of those guys

yeah, i guess we are signing guys i want us to bring in

fyi, i did like the merlin and hargrove signings a lot

[Bretsky]

How did Seattle build its roster?

McGinn is right on one hand and chooses not to really look at the other hand.


If you look up and down Seattle's roster they mixed in some effective trades and average free agents. Their GM has been better than everybody at drafting the past few years. But it hasn't just been the draft.

[Bretsky]

and that young team in seattle signed a couple a vets to 1(bennett) and 2 (avril) year deals this season and those 2 guys have been huge contributors for them. so the seahawks also took a "page out of the broncos book" if you will

we had the cap space where we could have sprinkled in a some free agent vets like the broncos did with shawn phillips for a million bucks (12 sacks) or seattle did with bennett (5 million for 1 year)

we need experience on this team, we need guys that can show all these 21 and 22 year olds how to practice and prepare for games and play at an nfl level when he gets on the field



Seatttle has excelled at the draft.........but they have used ALL resources in building this team. I've said many times....their GM has shown Ron Wolf like stones in recruting these free agents and closing on the deals/trades

[Bretsky]

Well, Bennett was a cheap FA pickup on a one year deal. TT has made some of these types of signings (Saturday and others earlier in his tenure), but they haven't worked out very well. Avril was a bigger signing, but Thompson has had his Woodson and Pickett signings. We'll see. Schneider has made more trades (non-draft) than Thompson, but a lot of what he is doing mirrors what Thompson does. It helps Seattle that Wilson is playing on his rookie contract. When he gets his $10-15M/year, the purse strings will tighten even further in Seattle.



What about Scheider mirrors Thompson ? I see him absolutely excelling at the draft. Both do well there. But IMO Scheieder is willing to take the risks that TT does not. I think he mirrors Ron Wolf

[Bretsky]

In 2012:
Jeff Saturday was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Cedric Benson was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Daniel Muir was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Anthony Hargrove was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Philip Merling was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Ryan Grant was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.

Saturday, Benson, Merling and Grant all spent time on the regular roster.

In 2013:
Johnny Jolly was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Mathew Mulligan was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Vince Young was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Seneca Wallace was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Matt Flynn was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.
Kahlil Bell was an experienced veteran FA who had a lot of previous playing experience.

Jolly, Wallace, Flynn and Bell all spent time on the regular roster.


But McGinn and others are right, the Packers NEVER sign experienced, cheap, veteran FA's in attempts to fill short-term needs.


Saturday and Benson and Hargrove are nice examples
But man....that 2013 list...Jolly was kind of ours

The rest of that list smells like manure

[Patler]

Saturday and Benson and Hargrove are nice examples
But man....that 2013 list...Jolly was kind of ours

The rest of that list smells like manure

Hargrove didn't stick either, but Merling was on the roster for 4 weeks while Neal was suspended.

Jolly was sort of theirs anyway, but he didn't have to be. He was in no way, shape or form a part of their planning at the end of 2012, and he hadn't played anywhere for three years. Really no different than any FA on the street from another team.

You might not like the smell of some of those names, but I was sort of surprised that Muir or Hargrove didn't stick. Muir has played for the Jets and Raiders since being cut by GB. Mulligan played for the Patriots this year. Bell was on the roster this year for a month. Was Wallace crap just because he was injured? If you don't want a young, inexperienced backup QB, Wallace was what you get.

[Rodgers12]

What about Scheider mirrors Thompson ? I see him absolutely excelling at the draft. Both do well there. But IMO Scheieder is willing to take the risks that TT does not. I think he mirrors Ron Wolf

Bretsky, I know you like Schneider, and he's probably very competent at his job, but the guy's basically Carroll's "Yes Man." In other words, even though he holds the GM title, Schneider is pretty much Ted Thompson when Ted Thompson was in Seattle.

To say that Schneider built the current Seagulls is like saying Grant won the War for Southern Independence (aka, American Civil War). Or Scott Pioli built the Patriot Dynasty.

Given that he comes from the Wolf-Thompson School of Midgetry (stubborn and complete intolerance of short people), and that he favored the signing of Flynn, Schneider likely didn't want to draft Rusty Wilson. Future NFL head coach and Mike Sherman disciple, Darell Bevell, convinced Caroll to give the little guy (Wilson) a chance.

The guy in KC is also a YES MAN. Want an example of an ex-Packer, Polar Bear influenced, front office "brass" that runs his own show? McKenzie.

[Rodgers12]

Holy wah. That picture makes it look like a much tougher catch than it seemed when watching it live.

This seasoned vet makes it look easy (Hyde sucks!):

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/25/73/02/5746853/3/628x471.jpg

[woodbuck27]

[QUOTE=woodbuck27;772516]Instead of thinking your doing something right.

pool every possible resource..tap in "Big Time" .

Utilize all you need to better ensure (not just think) a better (not good enough) rather A BEST OUTCOME.

A whole 'Motherload" of that is practically FREE.

TT and MM have to yse "common sense"...based in certain intelligence.

They're obviously getting it WRONG.

Maybe they might use what has always served me well: The ..."Two To One Odds ALWAY's WIN Theory".

Try some strategy #1:

a1) It's right >>> The strategy is on course for a positive. Great !

or

b1) It's wrong >>> Try something else or Strategy #2 as a RESET of Strategy #1

DON'T Accept Failure.

a2) It's right >>> Now the strategy is on course for a positive.

The worst case scenario is always based in re-setting strategy or a brand new strategy with renewed hope for a successful outcome.

The odds for a successful outcome is always Two to One.


Three straight seasons getting it wrong should indicate that their choices are a part of their failing strategy.

[3irty1]

I don't often defend McGinn, but Denver is a much more relevant example to us. Seattle's front office is playing the game on easy. They have an incredible luxury to take risks because they can recover effortlessly. They have a lot of good players and haven't had to pay any of them.

Denver got where they are by taking risks although they too had a form of training wheels in that they had absolutely nothing to lose. They are only a few years removed from being absolutely destroyed by the laughingstock of a GM they used to have. Still, if they can get to the superbowl with a 20 million dollar quarterback its worth paying attention to for Packer fans!

[woodbuck27]

and that young team in seattle signed a couple a vets to 1(bennett) and 2 (avril) year deals this season and those 2 guys have been huge contributors for them. so the seahawks also took a "page out of the broncos book" if you will

we had the cap space where we could have sprinkled in a some free agent vets like the broncos did with shawn phillips for a million bucks (12 sacks) or seattle did with bennett (5 million for 1 year)

we need experience on this team, we need guys that can show all these 21 and 22 year olds how to practice and prepare for games and play at an nfl level when he gets on the field

Won't such an approach force Ted Thompson to act more like a Bill Belichick style GM or looking like he's "on the job" daily?

He might? receive praise from Packer Nation, after seeing the Packer beat and Wisconsin sports journalists and media praise Ted Thompson as a hard working man.

Can you imagine, "a dynamic Ted Thompson", as a proud NFL GM with few if any NFL GM's better than he is? Ted Thompson ..." the real key " to the NFL dominating Green Bay Packers extraordinary success? Can you see...that success demonstrated by consistent playoff deep runs, NFC Championships and subsequent Super Bowl appearances...more Lombardi Trophy's !?

Can you imagine the Green Bay Packers, getting stronger every week, as the key focus measure of all Ted Thompson's efforts? That's what TT would be doing, if as one part of " His New Way ". He and Russ Ball designed their player contracts with a primary focus of protecting " the integrity of the Green Bay Packers ".

Example... Do your job or you'll be replaced, upgraded Pronto !

Wouldn't such a strategy ultimately "light a fire under the ass's" of many of the players Ted Thompson see's wasting the Green Bay Packers CAP space?

Players like BJ Raji and Morgan Burnett, Brad Jones and AJ Hawk.

AJ Hawk falls under the category ... " what a beauty " !

The man's a prime example; along with backup QB Matt Flynn. Of how to get the absolute most $money$, for the minimum product you actually deliver on Game Days. Both of these Packers redefine the phrase, "milking the system".

Doesn't that neglect extend into Mike McCarthy's, "Constant" coaching staff? A prime example of Green Bay Packer ineptitude and coaching, being Special Team's Coach ... Shawn Slocum?

How does that man hang onto his job? His ST's results record is "outrageously", or maybe? you choose, "pathetically" bad overall.

Maybe the fact that Shawn Slocum somehow maintains his Green Bay Packer job status is a true testament, to a man that just won't go away.

The word "FIRED" is too nasty in "One Giant Happy Family" Green Bay Packers Management. Shawn Slocum somehow hangs in there year to year to Year. Shawn Slocum looks "like growing moss on the north side of a shed".

Packers GM Ted Thompson!?? His name associated with that positive word "CHANGE"!? Isn't that thought just " wouldn't that be really nice " extraordinarily incredible?

That method of managing would make Ted Thompson more visible. His name appearing more in the media. Other interests ( Nationally famous journalists and media) would pop up examining Ted Thompson as... "NFL GM Extraordinaire".

Can "YOU" imagine where this would go !? For just a bare minimum forecast perspective:

Health food companies, and maybe even companies that are focused on marketing men's health and beauty products would be calling on ted Thompson for endorsements. Ted Thompson would likely and almost without trying achieve unlimited potential notoriety. His face splashed here and there on magazine covers, ad campaigns and even the equivalent to giant billboards all over America.

All that because Ted Thompson suddenly bought in to accepting the fact. That to be a terrific NFL GM. The absolute key component towards any NFL teams ultimate success. He had to change and work his job dynamically every single day. Work his tail off towards determining results adding up to more than NFCN Championships.

Ted Thompson's present style of low key minimum hands on managing. His constant disappearing acts. Would for all intents and purposes disappear. His status, as an NFL drafting specialist, after a year to year approach to NFL Free Agency, guided by TT's:

"Don't sell me on no hand me down's !"

Normally we're used to seeing Ted Thompson's "pass the buck" over to his "tied to the hip" Head Coach Mike McCarthy's Coaching & Support Staff's ...

After Draft ''ONLY" as Ted Thompson "INSTRUCTS" ...

Packer Roster, "Without Anything NFL Superior and The Envy of the Entire NFL" :

Green Bay Packers Developmental and Full Support Program.

With all that obviously and so successfully already in place:

Is Ted Thompson a man that would risk such success?

GO PACK GO !

[Bretsky]

Hargrove didn't stick either, but Merling was on the roster for 4 weeks while Neal was suspended.

Jolly was sort of theirs anyway, but he didn't have to be. He was in no way, shape or form a part of their planning at the end of 2012, and he hadn't played anywhere for three years. Really no different than any FA on the street from another team.

You might not like the smell of some of those names, but I was sort of surprised that Muir or Hargrove didn't stick. Muir has played for the Jets and Raiders since being cut by GB. Mulligan played for the Patriots this year. Bell was on the roster this year for a month. Was Wallace crap just because he was injured? If you don't want a young, inexperienced backup QB, Wallace was what you get.


An interesting thought on Wallace and I'd offer two views of mine.

First of all, I was on board with the TT theory...I think..in that since AROD never gets hurt its better to have a smart veteran backup than a quality backup. So I can't be critical here

HOWEVER

If you wanted a backup who could play IMO Wallace was not the guy because I just didn't think we was good. He was the scrap heap veteran nobody wanted due to lack of talent IMO......different form Jeff Garcia a few years ago. I had no faith in Wallace to lead us to wins...while he was not an option I'd take the half baked shoulder of Matt Flynn over Wallace any day

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, I know you like Schneider, and he's probably very competent at his job, but the guy's basically Carroll's "Yes Man." In other words, even though he holds the GM title, Schneider is pretty much Ted Thompson when Ted Thompson was in Seattle.

To say that Schneider built the current Seagulls is like saying Grant won the War for Southern Independence (aka, American Civil War). Or Scott Pioli built the Patriot Dynasty.

Given that he comes from the Wolf-Thompson School of Midgetry (stubborn and complete intolerance of short people), and that he favored the signing of Flynn, Schneider likely didn't want to draft Rusty Wilson. Future NFL head coach and Mike Sherman disciple, Darell Bevell, convinced Caroll to give the little guy (Wilson) a chance.

The guy in KC is also a YES MAN. Want an example of an ex-Packer, Polar Bear influenced, front office "brass" that runs his own show? McKenzie.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this one; I saw interviews of Schneider after the Wilson pick. His staff did all the scouting and he gets credit for the immense amount of talent he chose to draft. Pete Carroll, while a solid coach, is not in charge of the scouting and scouting dept. He's put together some unbelievable drafts on defense, and his trades for Lynch and Baldwon as well as free agent signings....like Bennettt...were brilliant. I think you really sell him short

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, I know you like Schneider, and he's probably very competent at his job, but the guy's basically Carroll's "Yes Man." In other words, even though he holds the GM title, Schneider is pretty much Ted Thompson when Ted Thompson was in Seattle.

To say that Schneider built the current Seagulls is like saying Grant won the War for Southern Independence (aka, American Civil War). Or Scott Pioli built the Patriot Dynasty.

Given that he comes from the Wolf-Thompson School of Midgetry (stubborn and complete intolerance of short people), and that he favored the signing of Flynn, Schneider likely didn't want to draft Rusty Wilson. Future NFL head coach and Mike Sherman disciple, Darell Bevell, convinced Caroll to give the little guy (Wilson) a chance.

The guy in KC is also a YES MAN. Want an example of an ex-Packer, Polar Bear influenced, front office "brass" that runs his own show? McKenzie.


And with where they were on the cap, Flynn made sense. They had the money and needed a QB badly. In retrospect it was idiotic to give him that much; and they got incredibly lucky when Russell Wilson fell into their laps. But I do think Scheider wanted him badly

[ThunderDan]

Seatttle has excelled at the draft.........but they have used ALL resources in building this team. I've said many times....their GM has shown Ron Wolf like stones in recruting these free agents and closing on the deals/trades

Sorry B, I don't think Schneider and Wolf are anything a like.

Wolf was in a period where teams didn't understand the salary cap and players like Reggie White could be had. You will never see a player of Reggie White's ability hit the open market in the NFL today unless there is a problem with the player's agent's fax.

[ThunderDan]

If you look up and down Seattle's roster they mixed in some effective trades and average free agents. Their GM has been better than everybody at drafting the past few years. But it hasn't just been the draft.

And what about TT with Woodson and Pickett? Let's see what Sea does 5-6 years into Schneider's tenure to see if the approach changes when they actually have to pay their superstars.

[red]

Holy wah. That picture makes it look like a much tougher catch than it seemed when watching it live.

until this point i questioned your yooperness

not any more

[bobblehead]

They're obviously getting it WRONG.
.

I have 2 things to say....dammit, this post was under 8 lines so I read it. And:

Which 5 teams in the NFL have been more successful than the packers during TT and MM's tenure? I mean, if they are so wrong, and its so obvious, there must be at least 20, I only ask you to name 5.

[bobblehead]

Seatttle has excelled at the draft.........but they have used ALL resources in building this team. I've said many times....their GM has shown Ron Wolf like stones in recruting these free agents and closing on the deals/trades

Talk to me after next year, and the one after that. As of right now, they have 2 winning seasons, 1 superbowl appearance. I'm not convinced they get a win.

[bobblehead]

This seasoned vet makes it look easy (Hyde sucks!):

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/25/73/02/5746853/3/628x471.jpg

We all knew it would just be a matter of time before you became "that guy" again.

[bobblehead]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one; I saw interviews of Schneider after the Wilson pick. His staff did all the scouting and he gets credit for the immense amount of talent he chose to draft. Pete Carroll, while a solid coach, is not in charge of the scouting and scouting dept. He's put together some unbelievable drafts on defense, and his trades for Lynch and Baldwon as well as free agent signings....like Bennettt...were brilliant. I think you really sell him short

Time to disengage bretsky...he is about 2 days away from full TT derangement syndrome, making ludicrous arguments that not even he believes just to inflame.

[bobblehead]

Sorry B, I don't think Schneider and Wolf are anything a like.

Wolf was in a period where teams didn't understand the salary cap and players like Reggie White could be had. You will never see a player of Reggie White's ability hit the open market in the NFL today unless there is a problem with the player's agent's fax.

Not entirely accurate. Guys like Peppers, Haynesworth and others hit the market at times. Of course your statement is correct because there is no other player like Reggie White...period.

[Patler]

Everyone seems to ignore assessments of the rosters prior to the transactions. How active you are depends somewhat on how deep you think your roster is. In the end, you have room for only 53 players.

When Thompson came to GB, during one of his first interviews he was asked how he had spent his time since coming to GB. He said he spent weeks analyzing his own roster. He was asked what he determined, and his reply was that it was not quite what he expected, the implication being that it was weaker than he thought.

His first few years in GB he made trades, including Gado for Morency, Johnson for one of the Thompson linebackers (I always forget if it was Robert or Raynoch, I think Robert), a draft pick for Grant, Morley for a draft pick, and of course a lot of draft day trades.

He signed lots of veteran free agents; some somewhat expensive and former high picks like Pickett, Woodson, Klemm and Chiller. Some very experienced older guys who had started for many years but came cheaply like Little, O'Dwyer, Robinson, Gardner; some with three to five years experience who it was hoped could still develop like the other Thompson linebacker, Arturo Freeman, Manuel, Holiday, Frank Walker, Kuhn, even guys like Allen, Boerigter and Shaun Bodiford, etc.

Many, not all spent considerable time on the in-season roster.

Draft picks have to be your primary source, because it is a young mens league. As you develop a pipeline of young guys you like, you have players like House, Barclay, Newhouse, Banjo, Barrington, Mulumba, Shields, Starks, etc. Your patience sometimes pays off, like Shields almost immediately or sticking with Starks until this year. Sometimes you give up and maybe later wish you had kept guys on the 53 like Giacomini.

Sure, you still have needs, like safety in GB, but it's not like when you don't like your roster and you can go out for any good deal available, regardless of position.

Seattle blew-up their roster and basically started over. TT did a less drastic job of the same thing when he came to GB. I haven't studied Denver's depth pre-Elway, but I suspect it was thin.

Most teams eventually get to the point that they really don't want too many "new" old guys, because they also need to build for the future, and that is done with rookies.

That said, the very best GMs have a knack for keeping the pipeline full, yet being able to acquire selective experienced players to improve opportunities in a given year. I said here many years ago, before the SB in 2010, that the true test for a GM is pulling the trigger on a deal after you have the team almost where you want it. TT was able to win the SB without having to do that, other then the trade-up to get Matthews. He hasn't done it in the years since to fill specific glaring needs.

So far, TT, Elway and Schneider+ have all shown skill in blowing up a roster and turning it around very quickly. Only Thompson has proven that he can keep the pipeline full so as to have a shot at the playoffs year after year. Maybe Elway and Schneider+ can do it too, time will tell. None has shown the selected strike in the way I see it.

[Bretsky]

And what about TT with Woodson and Pickett? Let's see what Sea does 5-6 years into Schneider's tenure to see if the approach changes when they actually have to pay their superstars.

I have forever given TT praise for Wooson and Pickett
I give Schneider a ton of credit for all of the moves he's made ..even since last year

When TT made his splash this team seemed like they really needed...desperately...an infusion of talent.

I looked at Seattle as being on the brink last year...needing some short term help if they decided to go for it. And Seattle Went all in.

I think Ron Wolf made several attempts to roll the dice and go all in as well; I view Scheider the same way. IMO TT really takes a more conservative route. Ha e's never do what Denver did. IT's not in his blood to bring in guys..typically...like Michael Bennett....Elvis Dumerville....John Abrahson...for instance. I think those are the guys Ron Wolf was constantly looking for. Never afraid to strike out...but he was alwasy swinging at differnt pitches

Your points regarding how it's hard to compare Wolf to anything because he was in a non cap era is very valid though

[mraynrand]

Everyone seems to ignore assessments of the rosters prior to the transactions....

nice post. I enjoyed reading it. I think it illustrates that even the best of GMs have to have an ingredient of luck. All these guys can manage to accumulate a collection of decent players, but to win it all, they have to gel together at some point, and even with good coaching, you can't control for injuries and other circumstances, even when you pull the trigger on a deal that helps you get over the hump.

[denverYooper]

nice post. I enjoyed reading it.

+1. It reminds me of a favorite quote from 1984 when I read something that cuts through:


The book fascinated him, or more exactly it reassured him. In a sense it told him nothing that was new, but that was part of the attraction. It said what he would have said, if it had been possible for him to set his scattered thoughts in order. It was the product of a mind similar to his own, but enormously more powerful, more systematic, less fear-ridden. The best books, he perceived, are those that tell you what you know already.

[pbmax]

Look back at '96 and '97. Wolf acquired plenty of veterans of NFL wars to lead his young uns. McGinn is correct.

A seasoned veteran would NOT have fucked this up:

http://www.packers.com/assets/images/imported/GB/photos/article_images/2014/01-january/140105-locker-room-300.jpg

Right. Veterans like Donald Driver, Greg Jennings or Jermichael Finley never have drops.

Also, older football players have better vertical leap than younger ones too.

I think they should consider a vet for safety and possibly ILB but this is not the reason why. Playmakers are not who you are hunting in bargain value FA.

[pbmax]

BTW, Micah Hyde last season: ZERO, 0, NADA, NULL, SEFR, RIE picks.

Kaepernick threw him a gift and the idiot rookie still dropped it.

Grrrr. Thinking about it makes me angry.

Also, should not have played this guy as he was a rookie and will not make any plays.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1211/nfl-hardest-working-players/images/casey-hayward-op3b-76991.jpg

[pbmax]

Bretsky, I know you like Schneider, and he's probably very competent at his job, but the guy's basically Carroll's "Yes Man." In other words, even though he holds the GM title, Schneider is pretty much Ted Thompson when Ted Thompson was in Seattle.

To say that Schneider built the current Seagulls is like saying Grant won the War for Southern Independence (aka, American Civil War). Or Scott Pioli built the Patriot Dynasty.

Given that he comes from the Wolf-Thompson School of Midgetry (stubborn and complete intolerance of short people), and that he favored the signing of Flynn, Schneider likely didn't want to draft Rusty Wilson. Future NFL head coach and Mike Sherman disciple, Darell Bevell, convinced Caroll to give the little guy (Wilson) a chance.

The guy in KC is also a YES MAN. Want an example of an ex-Packer, Polar Bear influenced, front office "brass" that runs his own show? McKenzie.

Carroll gives Schneider credit for drafting Russell Wilson. He is more than a yes man.

[Bretsky]

Right. Veterans like Donald Driver, Greg Jennings or Jermichael Finley never have drops.

Also, older football players have better vertical leap than younger ones too.

I think they should consider a vet for safety and possibly ILB but this is not the reason why. Playmakers are not who you are hunting in bargain value FA.



If there is one thing I think nearly all of us agree on it can be summarized as follows:

DEAR TED

Get off your ass in Free Agency and go sign a legitimate f'ckin starting safety because you have failed to address that spot

[Bretsky]

Carroll gives Schneider credit for drafting Russell Wilson. He is more than a yes man.


Yes, he is...way more. It's not like Pete Carroll is hoodie genius...loaded with credentials that allow him to control things/personnell. Schneider has loaded this team on defense and through the draft. And their secondary and special teams...that's talent Schneider chose.

[Bretsky]

Right. Veterans like Donald Driver, Greg Jennings or Jermichael Finley never have drops.

Also, older football players have better vertical leap than younger ones too.

I think they should consider a vet for safety and possibly ILB but this is not the reason why. Playmakers are not who you are hunting in bargain value FA.



I think it's legit criticicm to show TT has failed at safely.....I would not say Hyde f'cked this up (even though he did in missing the pass). He might be the gem of last year's draft and showed a lot or raw skills...that if developed....will show up for us for many years to come. He's the closest thing we have to a 2 safety...I think....even though he's a bit miscast there as well.

[Bretsky]

If you guys haven't noticed....I like posting shit/threads that spark debate..and arguments....I generally don't get into the obvious threads

I don't think the Denver plan is the one GB has to follow. If you bring in that many vet free agents one of them might end up taking the roster spot of a rookie Sam Shields.

But I do embrace using free agency some to shore up some Captian Obvious Weaknesses. As Red has pointed out we sometimes end up signing our own for too much money. Generally overpaying a bit isn't bad.......unless you choose the wrong player to overpay and he was a bust. Pickett was an incredible signing; Woodson turned out to be.

We tried like heck to sign the LB stud Arrington and he chose another team. Had he been a bust for it...aka....Joe Johnson...there is your argument against Free Agency.

[3irty1]

If you guys haven't noticed....I like posting shit/threads that spark debate..and arguments....I generally don't get into the obvious threads

I don't think the Denver plan is the one GB has to follow. If you bring in that many vet free agents one of them might end up taking the roster spot of a rookie Sam Shields.

But I do embrace using free agency some to shore up some Captian Obvious Weaknesses. As Red has pointed out we sometimes end up signing our own for too much money. Generally overpaying a bit isn't bad.......unless you choose the wrong player to overpay and he was a bust. Pickett was an incredible signing; Woodson turned out to be.

We tried like heck to sign the LB stud Arrington and he chose another team. Had he been a bust for it...aka....Joe Johnson...there is your argument against Free Agency.

I pretty much never agree with you but I do appreciate you playing devils advocate and I do realize that's the role you choose here. This forum is absolute shit unless someone is there to challenge the status quo.

[Bretsky]

I pretty much never agree with you but I do appreciate you playing devils advocate and I do realize that's the role you choose here. This forum is absolute shit unless someone is there to challenge the status quo.



:)

We agree more than what you think.........although.........I"ll never admit it

[pbmax]

I think it's legit criticicm to show TT has failed at safely.....I would not say Hyde f'cked this up (even though he did in missing the pass). He might be the gem of last year's draft and showed a lot or raw skills...that if developed....will show up for us for many years to come. He's the closest thing we have to a 2 safety...I think....even though he's a bit miscast there as well.

Safety is a catastrophe, especially since Burnett signed a deal and promptly regressed to Marquand Manuel level.

And it is example number one of why Ted, of all people, should not be trading up. If he doesn't land a starter in FA, I hope he draft three safeties, none with consecutive picks though.

[Bretsky]

Safety is a catastrophe, especially since Burnett signed a deal and promptly regressed to Marquand Manuel level.

And it is example number one of why Ted, of all people, should not be trading up. If he doesn't land a starter in FA, I hope he draft three safeties, none with consecutive picks though.


I'm not that bearish on Burnett; I think he has a lot of talent. But dude needs a VET to direct him back there. Listed to a great interview with Leroy Butler.
He discussed the great impact Robinson had on him as a young player. Then he noted Burnett needs that. I really agree.
Look back at the Chicago Game. He made an incredible play to break up a touchdown
Then later that game he forgot his assignment and his mental lapse resulted in a Bears TD. We need a good vet player back there to just allow him to play w/o thinking IMO

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm not that bearish on Burnett; I think he has a lot of talent. But dude needs a VET to direct him back there. Listed to a great interview with Leroy Butler.
He discussed the great impact Robinson had on him as a young player. Then he noted Burnett needs that. I really agree.
Look back at the Chicago Game. He made an incredible play to break up a touchdown
Then later that game he forgot his assignment and his mental lapse resulted in a Bears TD. We need a good vet player back there to just allow him to play w/o thinking IMO

Sorry man but Burnett blows. Total disappointment....even more than Brad Jones and that's saying something. We need two new guys back there.

[Bretsky]

Sorry man but Burnett blows. Total disappointment....even more than Brad Jones and that's saying something. We need two new guys back there.


OUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Burnett has some pretty good talent; that's more than Just a Guy can say

[woodbuck27]

I have 2 things to say....dammit, this post was under 8 lines so I read it. And:

Which 5 teams in the NFL have been more successful than the packers during TT and MM's tenure? I mean, if they are so wrong, and its so obvious, there must be at least 20, I only ask you to name 5.

Look at the record in the playoff's since the post 2010 Season Super Bowl win; or playoff's 2011-13.

Is that record commendable?

[Patler]

Look at the record in the playoff's since the post 2010 Season Super Bowl win; or playoff's 2011-13.

Is that record commendable?

Good Morning Woody;

Of course, you could also ask how many teams have actually made the playoffs each of the last four years, 2010 to 2013.

[Joemailman]

Woody would never ask that. It's not conducive to bashing TT and MM.

[pbmax]

I'm not that bearish on Burnett; I think he has a lot of talent. But dude needs a VET to direct him back there. Listed to a great interview with Leroy Butler.
He discussed the great impact Robinson had on him as a young player. Then he noted Burnett needs that. I really agree.
Look back at the Chicago Game. He made an incredible play to break up a touchdown
Then later that game he forgot his assignment and his mental lapse resulted in a Bears TD. We need a good vet player back there to just allow him to play w/o thinking IMO

I don't think he is beyond salvage. He never seemed to have this many problems and his hands never seemed to be made of stone. What I suspect a lot of the trouble is over commitment to help. Every player, certainly in the secondary has a primary responsibility and secondary ones. This is obvious on a read option or play action pass, but its true on about any pass plays.

My suspicion is that part of this problem is in order to combat breakdowns elsewhere, players have taken it upon themselves to assist others more than normal. This can divide attention and put players out of position even when they know where they should be.

This doesn't explain the talent gaps at certain spots, but it does explain the level of play by vets like Burnett, Hawk and say Raji, who is often just trying to make a play by jetting up field to penetrate and disrupt plays.

So veteran or no, competent play from their compatriots will make each of those young vets better because they will have less to do.

[bobblehead]

If there is one thing I think nearly all of us agree on it can be summarized as follows:

DEAR TED

Get off your ass in Free Agency and go sign a legitimate f'ckin starting safety because you have failed to address that spot

this is where I want tt to do his biggest deal since Woodson. It is the one area he can make the most marked improvement. Going from complete crap to stud with the stroke of 9Mil a year.

[bobblehead]

Look at the record in the playoff's since the post 2010 Season Super Bowl win; or playoff's 2011-13.

Is that record commendable?

I note that you failed to answer my question. Since you narrow it to 2011-2013 and negate the superbowl victory in your critique, I will ask it simpler. Which 5 teams would you rather have in that time frame?

[ThunderDan]

I have forever given TT praise for Wooson and Pickett
I give Schneider a ton of credit for all of the moves he's made ..even since last year

When TT made his splash this team seemed like they really needed...desperately...an infusion of talent.

I looked at Seattle as being on the brink last year...needing some short term help if they decided to go for it. And Seattle Went all in.

I think Ron Wolf made several attempts to roll the dice and go all in as well; I view Scheider the same way. IMO TT really takes a more conservative route. Ha e's never do what Denver did. IT's not in his blood to bring in guys..typically...like Michael Bennett....Elvis Dumerville....John Abrahson...for instance. I think those are the guys Ron Wolf was constantly looking for. Never afraid to strike out...but he was alwasy swinging at differnt pitches

Your points regarding how it's hard to compare Wolf to anything because he was in a non cap era is very valid though

I am trying to figure out how Seattle went all-in.

I don't think they did and could be more selective in their moves because of the cap space and young roster. What I am interest in is what track they will take once they have to pay their guys that are on rookie contracts.

The big move I remember them making was the Percy Harvin signing and this year the $10M doesn't look well spent.

[Rutnstrut]

"denver goes out and gets nfl vets for dirt cheap and signs them to one year deals to be backups.

Vets, backups, free agents, now your just talking silly. If it isn't draft and develop, or undrafted free agent there's no use for them in Green Bay.

[mraynrand]

"denver goes out and gets nfl vets for dirt cheap and signs them to one year deals to be backups. Vets, backups, free agents, now your just talking silly. If it isn't draft and develop, or undrafted free agent there's no use for them in Green Bay.

We all know you think the Packers should have signed up some cheap vets to fill holes. Anything else to add?

[pbmax]

"denver goes out and gets nfl vets for dirt cheap and signs them to one year deals to be backups.

Vets, backups, free agents, now your just talking silly. If it isn't draft and develop, or undrafted free agent there's no use for them in Green Bay.

You have made very good points before and its clear you are not alone on this topic. Instead of complaining, tell us how things should be different. Not everyone will agree, but its clear you did not expect this level of support. Make that case. Stop telling the other side they are muddled thinkers.

[Bretsky]

I am trying to figure out how Seattle went all-in.

I don't think they did and could be more selective in their moves because of the cap space and young roster. What I am interest in is what track they will take once they have to pay their guys that are on rookie contracts.

The big move I remember them making was the Percy Harvin signing and this year the $10M doesn't look well spent.


Without even thinking about it or looking at their roster I think of adding Avril, Bennett, and trading for Harvin to shore up needs that they clearly thought they had

[Rutnstrut]

You have made very good points before and its clear you are not alone on this topic. Instead of complaining, tell us how things should be different. Not everyone will agree, but its clear you did not expect this level of support. Make that case. Stop telling the other side they are muddled thinkers.

That makes sense pb, as players that I think will help the team become free agents, I'll start a thread on them stating why I am lobbying for them. In short, I really think a different D coord would help, I also think someone needs to take the play calling responsibilities away from stubby.

[Patler]

"denver goes out and gets nfl vets for dirt cheap and signs them to one year deals to be backups.

Vets, backups, free agents, now your just talking silly. If it isn't draft and develop, or undrafted free agent there's no use for them in Green Bay.

In 2012 GB did exactly what Denver did for two positions, center and RB, only to be starter, not backups. The tried desperately to do that at DL bringing in Hargrove, Muir and Merling. It didn't work out so well at any of the three positions.

This year they did it at QB three times with Young, Wallace and Flynn. In effect, they did it at DL with Jolly. The tried to do it at TE with Mulligan.

Perhaps they should have done it at safety either or both years, but they did have a relatively high draft pick in MacMillian who just didn't pan out. Perhaps their biggest mistake was when they released him and didn't find someone better to replace him with.

[Patler]

I also think someone needs to take the play calling responsibilities away from stubby.

That is something I continually wondered about this year. For a few years the Packers were fantastic in the redzone. It seemed less sharp in 2012, then this year was poor even before Rodgers was injured. MM said in the off season that they were changing some thing on O to stay fresh and ahead of the DCs they played against. When it went bad for them this year, I wondered if it was the play calls or the refreshed offense MM talked about. Any thoughts?

[JohnMexico]

Well as the stock continues to plummet, why not take the whole damn book!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Settles Gm has built such a complete team. Best drafter in the league.

[Patler]

I'm having a difficult time getting enthused for Seattle. Too many drug violations coupled with the USC issues under Carrol make it hard for me to get behind them.

[Bretsky]

I'm having a difficult time getting enthused for Seattle. Too many drug violations coupled with the USC issues under Carrol make it hard for me to get behind them.

I can't say I'm a big fan of anybody there but Russell Wilson
But they have achieved greatness and you have to admire that and how they got there

[Cheesehead Craig]

So would that page involve getting blown out in the SB?

[bobblehead]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-should-take-a-page-out-of-the-broncos-book-b99194473z1-242694431.html

Meh....I like our approach better. The one where you win the superbowl and not the one where you get blown out.

[mraynrand]

McGinn really completed a trifecta of sorts - a collection of fantastically ill-timed and incredibly wrong predictions this year. Now he knows how I feel!

[pbmax]

McGinn really completed a trifecta of sorts - a collection of fantastically ill-timed and incredibly wrong predictions this year. Now he knows how I feel!

Next up this Sunday a blistering expose of why the Packers need to stop throwing so much and run the ball to help the defense play like Seattle's.

[Bretsky]

Next up this Sunday a blistering expose of why the Packers need to stop throwing so much and run the ball to help the defense play like Seattle's.


that would be silly..............to play defense like Seattles....we just need several new defensive players on that side of the ball.

[Patler]

I can't say I'm a big fan of anybody there but Russell Wilson
But they have achieved greatness and you have to admire that and how they got there

Nah, they've only won a Super Bowl. There is a ways to go before they achieve greatness.
When they Packers won the Super Bowl three years ago, had they achieved greatness?

[mraynrand]

Nah, they've only won a Super Bowl. There is a ways to go before they achieve greatness.
When they Packers won the Super Bowl three years ago, had they achieved greatness?

fart in the wind!

[digitaldean]

The Packers followed up their SB championship with a 15-1 record, but a Divisional round exit. I think Seattle who has young and cheap (rookie contract) players like Wilson, Sherman, etc. that give them a leg up on rest of NFL.

[Guiness]

In 2012 GB did exactly what Denver did for two positions, center and RB, only to be starter, not backups. The tried desperately to do that at DL bringing in Hargrove, Muir and Merling. It didn't work out so well at any of the three positions.

This year they did it at QB three times with Young, Wallace and Flynn. In effect, they did it at DL with Jolly. The tried to do it at TE with Mulligan.

Perhaps they should have done it at safety either or both years, but they did have a relatively high draft pick in MacMillian who just didn't pan out. Perhaps their biggest mistake was when they released him and didn't find someone better to replace him with.

yup, dice were rolled, some got snake eyes, some got boxcars. I get back to the fact that the Packers are in a damn good position year after year and honestly feel like anything beyond that is as much luck as anything else. If Saturday plays like an pro-bowler instead of just getting voted to it and Benson doesn't hurt his foot, how does last year turn out? I do have to hand it to Seattle though - with Harvin contributing nothing during the season, and Rice being a flop they put it all together regardless.

[Brandon494]

I'm having a difficult time getting enthused for Seattle. Too many drug violations coupled with the USC issues under Carrol make it hard for me to get behind them.

Thats called being a hater.

[mraynrand]

Thats called being a hater.


IT's what I dislike about Seattle as well. Hater? For Carrol, OK, guilty as charged for me. I can't stand the guy, but it doesn't mean that he isn't a good coach.

[Patler]

The Packers followed up their SB championship with a 15-1 record, but a Divisional round exit. I think Seattle who has young and cheap (rookie contract) players like Wilson, Sherman, etc. that give them a leg up on rest of NFL.

There were scads of articles written in the off season before 2011 that said the same exact things about the Packers, but with the added enhancement for them being that they would get a bunch of starters back from IR. A team that won the Super Bowl the hard way (as a Wildcard with all away games) getting an infusion of experienced starters back. One of the major publications had an article about the Packers being a potential dynasty in the making, with the chance to win another Super Bowl or two before the inevitable breakup that would happen when Rodgers and Matthews future contracts would take huge chunks of the salary cap, and with TT having a steady stream of new cheap talent ready to take the pace of departing vets.

[Patler]

Thats called being a hater.

Naw, it's not being a hater. I just don't respect how some things have been done, so I can't get enthused about their success. The path is important, not just the destination.

[mraynrand]

this is where I want tt to do his biggest deal since Woodson. It is the one area he can make the most marked improvement. Going from complete crap to stud with the stroke of 9Mil a year.

who is this mystery db? Did you have someone particular in mind??

[bobblehead]

Thats called being a hater.

That does tend to be the response of one who achieves something through disreputable means and gets called on it.

[bobblehead]

who is this mystery db? Did you have someone particular in mind??

Yes, I have stated that I want a serious play for Jarius Byrd at least twice. I also am not one of those posters that wants all things FA. And to preempt your next point, I also realize it could cost us Cobb or Nelson, or some other FA of our own. And to explain it (because you seem to think I am one of those posters), we don't have any big time contributors on defense that need to be locked up next year. We need more talent on that side of the ball. I also think we will still find a way to sign cobb or nelson even if we have to cut someone who signed for a bit much to do it.

[denverYooper]

I can't say I'm a big fan of anybody there but Russell Wilson
But they have achieved greatness and you have to admire that and how they got there

You don't have to admire it at all. Especially if you suspect they might have achieved said "greatness" by unscrupulous means. I don't believe there was an East German-level chemical enhancement program, but there were an awful lot of red flags.

[Patler]

Yes, I have stated that I want a serious play for Jarius Byrd at least twice. I also am not one of those posters that wants all things FA. And to preempt your next point, I also realize it could cost us Cobb or Nelson, or some other FA of our own. And to explain it (because you seem to think I am one of those posters), we don't have any big time contributors on defense that need to be locked up next year. We need more talent on that side of the ball. I also think we will still find a way to sign cobb or nelson even if we have to cut someone who signed for a bit much to do it.

I don't disagree with that concept at all. I don't know if Byrd is the guy or not (very well could be), but the concept of maybe sacrificing a player on offense to bring someone in to bolster the defense is certainly legitimate. The idea is to strengthen the defense more than you weaken the offense, and with the remaining weapons on offense I think that can be done even if it is Cobb or Nelson that you end up losing.

[Rutnstrut]

that would be silly..............to play defense like Seattles....we just need several new defensive players on that side of the ball.

IMO, this is key. Give Rodgers and the offense a short field and hopefully early leads that are protected. I really don't think this coaching staff or offense, especially Rodgers are "built" to come from behind. They possibly would have been up a lot more this past season if not for squandered red zone opportunities, and that imo is stubby's stagnant play calling.

[mraynrand]

I really don't think this coaching staff or offense, especially Rodgers are "built" to come from behind.

Rodgers not built to come from behind? I totally disagree, but I also recognize that we don't see it as much since in the McCarthy era, the Packers just don't get in the hole all that much. Still, the greatest two wins of the year were fantastic come-from-behind victories (the win at Dallas was a win for the coaching staff, getting Flynn on fire) and at Chicago (the final winning drive was an epic, for the ages, come from behind drive by Rodgers).

Still, something has to be done about the red zone failures, but maybe a year of consistency will help - APRH - Having Finley or his replacement firmly ensconced in the offense, having better line play with the threat of the run, should help immensely. APRH!!!

[Pugger]

The Packers followed up their SB championship with a 15-1 record, but a Divisional round exit. I think Seattle who has young and cheap (rookie contract) players like Wilson, Sherman, etc. that give them a leg up on rest of NFL.

Until they have to pay these young and cheap players. It will also be interesting to see how well they draft at the end of each round. And will they continue to be as lucky in 2014 on the injury front like they were this year? All of these things will tell the tale.

[Pugger]

Yes, I have stated that I want a serious play for Jarius Byrd at least twice. I also am not one of those posters that wants all things FA. And to preempt your next point, I also realize it could cost us Cobb or Nelson, or some other FA of our own. And to explain it (because you seem to think I am one of those posters), we don't have any big time contributors on defense that need to be locked up next year. We need more talent on that side of the ball. I also think we will still find a way to sign cobb or nelson even if we have to cut someone who signed for a bit much to do it.

A guy like Byrd would do wonders for this defense but I think he will be too rich for Ted's blood. :-| But hopefully there will be other players who might not be as good but will be a hell of lot better than anybody presently on our roster (that might not take much) and won't break the bank. I do hope we seriously look at these players AND draft a safety in the first few rounds - if there is anybody there worth taking of course. ILB is another position that needs upgrading. If these defensive issues can be addressed and we have a normal number of injuries instead of a MASH unit every year we can make some noise in 2014.

[Smidgeon]

Wasn't Byrd injured this year? Or was it last? Or was it someone else?

Was it a fluke injury like Sherrod's or a history of injuries like Harrell?

[mraynrand]

Wasn't Byrd injured this year? Or was it last? Or was it someone else?

Was it a fluke injury like Sherrod's or a history of injuries like Harrell?

I think he missed 5 or 6 games with a foot injury. Some thought he was dogging it. Turned down 7 mil/yr deal apparently (don't know the whole contract)

He hurt his back in the pro bowl too, but says he's OK.