Best Fit for 3-4

[Smidgeon]

If it isn't scheme and is instead personnel, who's misfit in the 3-4? Based on comments on this board, I've put together a list. I'm mostly interested in seeing just how misfit this defense is for Caper's scheme. Please add comments, fill in the blanks, and correct me. I trust the football opinions of the people on this board more than I do the sensationalist writers who represent the team, and I really am curious just how "lopsided" this team's talent is.


NAME POS. HT. WT. Capers' 3-4 Best Fit
Bush CB 6' 1" 200 NA Doesn't matter
Hayward CB 5' 11" 192 Fit Zone DB
House CB 6' 1" 195 Misfit Man DB
Hyde CB 6' 1" 197 Fit Zone DB
Shields CB 5' 11" 184 Misfit Man DB
Williams CB 5' 11" 191 Misfit Man DB
Boyd DE 6' 3" 310 Fit DE/DT?
D. Jones DE 6' 4" 285 Fit DE
Wilson DE 6' 3" 305 Fit DE
Worthy DE 6' 2" 304 Misfit 4-3 DT
Neal DE/LB 6' 3" 285 Fit OLB
Daniels DT 6' 1" 300 Misfit 4-3 DT
Jolly DT 6' 3" 325 Fit DE
Pickett DT 6' 2" 338 Fit DT
Raji DT 6' 2" 337 Misfit 4-3 DT
Aiyewa LB 6' 1" 237 ?? ??
Barrington LB 6' 1" 235 Fit MLB
Francois LB 6' 2" 250 ?? ??
Hawk LB 6' 1" 242 ?? ??
B. Jones LB 6' 3" 242 ?? ??
Lattimore LB 6' 2" 237 ?? ??
Matthews LB 6' 3" 255 Fit OLB
Mulumba LB 6' 3" 260 ?? ??
Palmer LB 6' 2" 248 ?? ??
Perry LB 6' 3" 265 Fit OLB
Banjo S 5' 10" 207 ?? ??
Burnett S 6' 1" 209 ?? ??
Jennings S 6' 1" 195 ?? ??
Richardson S 6' 2" 216 ?? ??

Also, I don't necessarily agree with some of these categorizations I've put here. For example, I still think Perry could be a successful OLB in the 3-4. These are just the common themes I've been hearing, and I admittedly know less about the details of football than many people.

EDIT: Changed Perry and Neal to "Fit" per pb's commentary below.

[pbmax]

Barrington has enough height but boy if he really is 235 he will need to be a certain tackler to make it. He will also need to be kept clean because its hard to envision him fighting off a block by a Guard or even a FB.

Which points to another issue on D, especially run D. Interlocked components. If the line does a good job and 3 occupy 4 lineman, then one MLB is going to get a clear shot. Barrington might thrive in such a situation but if the D line doesn't keep the LBs clear, Barrington is in a world of hurt. That probably goes to the starters as well.

Perry and Neal probably are a mite heavy though they are clearly thought to be the edge setters in run D rather than the chaser/closer Matthews is. If they can get to 260-265 (Perry is listed at 265 though in his rookie year he was 270) and still stand in against a Tackle pass blocking then I say each fits. They simply need to be able to move well enough for occasional coverage.

[ThunderDan]

Barrington has enough height but boy if he really is 235 he will need to be a certain tackler to make it. He will also need to be kept clean because its hard to envision him fighting off a block by a Guard or even a FB.

Which points to another issue on D, especially run D. Interlocked components. If the line does a good job and 3 occupy 4 lineman, then one MLB is going to get a clear shot. Barrington might thrive in such a situation but if the D line doesn't keep the LBs clear, Barrington is in a world of hurt. That probably goes to the starters as well.

Perry and Neal probably are a mite heavy though they are clearly thought to be the edge setters in run D rather than the chaser/closer Matthews is. If they can get to 260-265 (Perry is listed at 265 though in his rookie year he was 270) and still stand in against a Tackle pass blocking then I say each fits. They simply need to be able to move well enough for occasional coverage.

That's exactly what they said about Borland. He can only play in a 4-3.

[Smidgeon]

Height and weight from Packers.com. I put Barrington as a fit since some of the journalists in their chats on the JSO and GBPG are convinced he's going to be a major player next year inside. I wonder if they've seen tremendous growth in that area...

[MadScientist]

I still say Peri is a misfit. In part because of his weight / attitude coming out, but also because his lack of coverage ability.

[woodbuck27]

If that analysis is correct:

TT doesn't have, "just a high priority" at the Safety position.

TT needs to bring in as a FA or draft... one or two @ CB.

[Joemailman]

Barrington has enough height but boy if he really is 235 he will need to be a certain tackler to make it. He will also need to be kept clean because its hard to envision him fighting off a block by a Guard or even a FB.

Which points to another issue on D, especially run D. Interlocked components. If the line does a good job and 3 occupy 4 lineman, then one MLB is going to get a clear shot. Barrington might thrive in such a situation but if the D line doesn't keep the LBs clear, Barrington is in a world of hurt. That probably goes to the starters as well.

Perry and Neal probably are a mite heavy though they are clearly thought to be the edge setters in run D rather than the chaser/closer Matthews is. If they can get to 260-265 (Perry is listed at 265 though in his rookie year he was 270) and still stand in against a Tackle pass blocking then I say each fits. They simply need to be able to move well enough for occasional coverage.

Barrington was listed at 246 when the Packers drafted him. Would this weight be from the combine? It's only on the Packers site that he's listed at 235. I assume that weight would be from his training camp physical? Barrington ran a 4.83 40 at the Combine, but improved to 4.69 at his Pro Day. I wonder if he took off some weight between the Combine and Pro Day to improve his timed speed. If 246 was his college playing weight, I wouldn't be surprised to see him return to that.

Edit: He was listed at 230 at USF, so he either bulked up for the Combine, or he ate too much once the season was over. I guess we'll see.

[mraynrand]

Let's be independent together!

http://thejjgalaxy.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/hermey.jpghttp://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Sam%2BBarrington%2BGreen%2BBay%2BPackers%2BRookie% 2BCamp%2BcJ8491dtCEHl.jpg

[mraynrand]

funny to see the Fox view on Barrington. I don't remember it being between Manning or Barrington to make the final 53.

http://msn.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/packers-annual-checkup-sam-barrington-013114

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Let Perry gain 15 pounds and he's probably a fit at DE! No more OLB BS.

[3irty1]

The scheme fit is overplayed from this community IMO.

The CB's have individual strengths and weaknesses but there is no scheme in the NFL that doesn't require a CB to play both zone and man coverage and the Packers certainly run plenty of both. If there were a reason that a cornerback was a misfit in the Capers scheme I'd say it was because of a lack of ballskills. This defense relies on preying on mistakes in the passing game so you'd better be able to make routine plays look routine.

As for Raji, he's not a misfit either. He's a 340lb guy with rare movement skills who's not very stout after 5 years in the league. A 4-3 or any other scheme isn't going to make him a star when he can't beat the guys in front of him now.

Daniels is kind of a misfit but not really. With his skill set one might think he would be more highly valued by a team that plays heavy under concepts but that won't really matter until its time to pay him. Until he makes big bucks he's a luxury not a misfit.

With Worthy I think its too early to call him a misfit. He's called a misfit on this board because he was labeled as an ideal 1-gapper pre-draft for his quick step and ability to find the ball in college. He'll get plenty of chances to beat the guys in front of him just like Daniels and Raji. If he's not a star its a lot more likely that its because he's not that good and not because he's being misused.

Perry's label has more concrete evidence. He's a freak but he's extremely stiff which probably means he'll always be a liability in college. He may well be a better DE than an OLB but I think calling him a misfit for that is totally missing the reason he was a first round pick. He was drafted because he had elite pass rushing potential. If he were a sack artist, nobody including Ted Thompson would give two shits if he could cover the same way nobody cared that Shawne Merriman couldn't cover. A 3-pt stance isn't going to be the difference between a probowl or not so its hard to say he's misused unless there is a good way to use him. He's not there yet.

[smuggler]

So if Perry were a good roleplayer it wouldn't matter that he is a misfit? He can't roleplay for us because he's injured all the time.

Also, we have no starter at NT and weak production at 5tDE because we keep drafting roleplayers in the first round of the draft. I probably like TT and Perry more than most Packer fans, but I disagree with your logic, 3irty...

[bobblehead]

The scheme fit is overplayed from this community IMO.

The CB's have individual strengths and weaknesses but there is no scheme in the NFL that doesn't require a CB to play both zone and man coverage and the Packers certainly run plenty of both. If there were a reason that a cornerback was a misfit in the Capers scheme I'd say it was because of a lack of ballskills. This defense relies on preying on mistakes in the passing game so you'd better be able to make routine plays look routine.

As for Raji, he's not a misfit either. He's a 340lb guy with rare movement skills who's not very stout after 5 years in the league. A 4-3 or any other scheme isn't going to make him a star when he can't beat the guys in front of him now.

Daniels is kind of a misfit but not really. With his skill set one might think he would be more highly valued by a team that plays heavy under concepts but that won't really matter until its time to pay him. Until he makes big bucks he's a luxury not a misfit.

With Worthy I think its too early to call him a misfit. He's called a misfit on this board because he was labeled as an ideal 1-gapper pre-draft for his quick step and ability to find the ball in college. He'll get plenty of chances to beat the guys in front of him just like Daniels and Raji. If he's not a star its a lot more likely that its because he's not that good and not because he's being misused.

Perry's label has more concrete evidence. He's a freak but he's extremely stiff which probably means he'll always be a liability in college. He may well be a better DE than an OLB but I think calling him a misfit for that is totally missing the reason he was a first round pick. He was drafted because he had elite pass rushing potential. If he were a sack artist, nobody including Ted Thompson would give two shits if he could cover the same way nobody cared that Shawne Merriman couldn't cover. A 3-pt stance isn't going to be the difference between a probowl or not so its hard to say he's misused unless there is a good way to use him. He's not there yet.

Great post....mainly because its what I think :) I never like the perry pick. I actually like him better now than I thought I would, but he is stiff. He does flash at times, which is more than I expected.

[mraynrand]

Perry looks stiff because his freakin' foot is messed up. Next year you suckas will be a eating your words.