Russell Wilson: Overrated?

[Rodgers12]

I am NOT suggesting the guy flat out sucks. Wilson is a so-called "natural born leader." He has a good arm. He's elusive. Smart. A winner. A champion.

But.....The truth of the matter is the Seagulls' D dominated and will probably continue to dominate the league. All Wilson has to do is hand the ball off to The Beast, make the occasional 3rd and short conversions and not turn the ball over. In other words, a game manager.

It will be interesting to see how Wilson fares when he has to carry a team behind his back, a la P-Mann, a la Golden Boy Brady, a la 'Twelve'.

Right now I don't think Wilson is Viscount James Earl Tennisracquet & Duke of LaCrosseteam elite. Maybe in the future. Que Sera, Sera. Right now I'd rank Wilson a couple of a paces above Alex Smith and a pace below Joe Flacco.

What say you?

[Brandon494]

I'd say he was a 3rd round draft pick who won the starting job then went on to tie the NFL record for TD passes by a rookie. He then went on to win the SB in only his 2nd season in the league. No one talks about him as being even a top 10 QB in the game so I don't get where this overrated talk is coming from. If we really want to talk about overrated QBs then lets start with Andrew Luck.

[Rodgers12]

I'd say he was a 3rd round draft pick who won the starting job then went on to tie the NFL record for TD passes by a rookie. He then went on to win the SB in only his 2nd season in the league. No one talks about him as being even a top 10 QB in the game so I don't get where this overrated talk is coming from. If we really want to talk about overrated QBs then lets start with Andrew Luck.

After the SB, seemed like all ESPN did was talk about Wilson's record. Would he have gotten the same record he has if he was playing with a defense similar to that of the Packers' the past two seasons?

Btw, I don't think Luck is overrated. The Colts were the worst team in the league prior to his arrival. Granted, the AFC South is weak, but Luck has turned the Colts into a respectful playoff contender.

[smuggler]

Of course he's going to be overrated. His team just won a Super Bowl. Every Seahawk is going to be overrated. He's still really good, though.

[Bretsky]

I'd say he was a 3rd round draft pick who won the starting job then went on to tie the NFL record for TD passes by a rookie. He then went on to win the SB in only his 2nd season in the league. No one talks about him as being even a top 10 QB in the game so I don't get where this overrated talk is coming from. If we really want to talk about overrated QBs then lets start with Andrew Luck.


I think an argument can be made he's top ten; he's probably in the eight to twelve range of Qb's

[mraynrand]

I'd like to see some ratings, before I make a judgment on whether Wilson is over-rated. I think he's very good - a leader of men who makes plays when his team needs them. Right now I see him like Drew Brees, a little more mobile and a little less accurate; like a mini-Cam, just as mobile, more accurate, but can't take hits as well.

[pbmax]

Its ESPN, the Singularity. Everyone is, at every moment, either under or overrated because they are the Top 40 Radio of sports coverage.

People are either completely ignored or over-praised. Unless you are Richard Sherman or Tim Tebow, when its just too much all the time.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Don't think he's overrated at all, given he's not being touted as an elite QB in the realm Manning, Brady or Rodgers.

I do think he's outstanding though and much more than a game manager and does far more than just convert the occassional 3rd and short. Trent Dilfer was a game manager. Russell Wilson is head and shoulders better than Dilfer ever was.

He is a natural born leader. Came to WI and took over the team and to a man, everyone said he was a leader. He goes to Seattle and gets the whole damn place to love him in 2 years.

I'd rather have Wilson than Flacco as I feel he's at least 2 steps above him, and about 4 above Smith.

[Zool]

I don't think he's overrated or underrated. He's just rated.

The problem here lies in the fact that we listen to morons talk in sports media and forget that they know about as much as we do, they just happened to get paid for an opinion.

[denverYooper]

I hope he's rated to the tune of 20+ mil in a couple of years. We'll see how many DEs Seattle can pay then.

[mraynrand]

The problem here lies in the fact that we listen to morons talk in sports media and forget that they know about as much as we do, they just happened to get paid for an opinion.

which ones know as much as we do?

[Zool]

which ones know as much as we do?

Pretty much all of them. They are just yammering and trying to sound smart.

[bobblehead]

After the SB, seemed like all ESPN did was talk about Wilson's record. Would he have gotten the same record he has if he was playing with a defense similar to that of the Packers' the past two seasons?

Btw, I don't think Luck is overrated. The Colts were the worst team in the league prior to his arrival. Granted, the AFC South is weak, but Luck has turned the Colts into a respectful playoff contender.
And before the game they couldn't stop gushing about Manning. QB is the marquee spot, they are most noticeable, and thus get the praise. Wilson has continued to improve. I don't think he will end up dominant, but he is obviously good enough to win a superbowl.
Right now there are the big 4 QB's. Everyone else is a notch down. I think Wilson is in that next tier conversation.

[denverYooper]

I'll tell you who's overrated: Coldplay.

[Zool]

I'll tell you who's overrated: Coldplay.

Not as overrated as Darrin Charles. I could cover that guy easy peasy.

[Guiness]

I'll tell you who's overrated: Coldplay.

this thread is about to take a turn for the worse...

Not as overrated as Darrin Charles. I could cover that guy easy peasy.

well, that took about as long as expected.

Can't say I see him as over-rated, I think he's viewed as about where he should be. Obviously his stock went up a somewhat with the SB ring

[bobblehead]

this thread is about to take a turn for the worse...


well, that took about as long as expected.

Can't say I see him as over-rated, I think he's viewed as about where he should be. Obviously his stock went up a somewhat with the SB ring

Darrin Charles has a superbowl ring?? Since when?

[Brandon494]

Btw, I don't think Luck is overrated. The Colts were the worst team in the league prior to his arrival. Granted, the AFC South is weak, but Luck has turned the Colts into a respectful playoff contender.

The only reason the Colts sucked that season was because they had Painter at QB, the year before they were a SB contender with Manning. We saw first hand what can happen when you lose your star QB and replace him with a bum. Everyone wants to talk about Luck's comeback wins but hes the reason they have to make a comeback with all the turnovers he commits. 7 INTs in two playoff games this season, Wilson had 9 all season and ZERO in the playoffs. Compare his stats to Wilson and its not even close. Yes Wilson has the best defense in the league and that helps him win games but that has nothing to do with his stats.

Wilson has a higher completion %, more TD passes, less INTs, more rushing yards, higher yards per pass attempt, and a higher QB rating but hes the overrated one? Come on man!

[KYPack]

I am NOT suggesting the guy flat out sucks. Wilson is a so-called "natural born leader." He has a good arm. He's elusive. Smart. A winner. A champion.

But.....The truth of the matter is the Seagulls' D dominated and will probably continue to dominate the league. All Wilson has to do is hand the ball off to The Beast, make the occasional 3rd and short conversions and not turn the ball over. In other words, a game manager.



Tank, why don't you learn some football?

All he has to do is hand the ball to Beast Mode, eh?

The Broncos shut Lynch down, 39 yds in 18 carries. Wilson then made the proper calls and distributed the ball. He was 4 of 5 in 3rd down conversions IN THE FIRST QUARTER!

Passer rating of 123.

He established a start to his legacy.

It doesn't matter where you rate him, you being a moron and all.

[mraynrand]

Wilson has a higher completion %, more TD passes, less INTs, more rushing yards, higher yards per pass attempt, and a higher QB rating but hes the overrated one? Come on man!

I'm still kinda looking to see someone rate him. If they put him in top 3, I suppose I would think he was overrated, but it could be there's not enough data yet. Ratings didn't help Manning all that much; he looked worse than Painter against Seattle.

[Rodgers12]

I'll tell you who's overrated: Coldplay.

You're joking, right? Coldplay is without a doubt the best rock band since the Plastic Ono Band.

[Rodgers12]

The only reason the Colts sucked that season was because they had Painter at QB, the year before they were a SB contender with Manning. We saw first hand what can happen when you lose your star QB and replace him with a bum. Everyone wants to talk about Luck's comeback wins but hes the reason they have to make a comeback with all the turnovers he commits. 7 INTs in two playoff games this season, Wilson had 9 all season and ZERO in the playoffs. Compare his stats to Wilson and its not even close. Yes Wilson has the best defense in the league and that helps him win games but that has nothing to do with his stats.

Wilson has a higher completion %, more TD passes, less INTs, more rushing yards, higher yards per pass attempt, and a higher QB rating but hes the overrated one? Come on man!

Take away Luck and the Colts are more hapless than the Packers with Tolzien playing.

Tarvaris Jackson could've won the SB with that Seagull D. Watched all 3 of the Gulls' playoffs game, including the SB, and Wilson looked like a robotic game manager. Maybe Bevell forbid him, but Wilson rarely called audibles. The only time he took a chance down the field, the Ninners jumped offside and it was a free play.

Wilson didn't even have to show up in the Super Bowl for the Gulls to win. Defense held the great Peyton Manning to 8 points and scored 9.

Again, I'm not saying Wilson sucks. Just saying his playoff performance was pretty Alex Smithsque (not the McCarthy-era Alex Smith but the Reid-era Smith).

[Rodgers12]

My cute moose avatar is gone. WTF?

Whatever.

[Brandon494]

Tarvaris Jackson could've won the SB with that Seagull D. Watched all 3 of the Gulls' playoffs game, including the SB, and Wilson looked like a robotic game manager.

I stopped reading after that .

[Brandon494]

You're joking, right? Coldplay is without a doubt the best rock band since the Plastic Ono Band.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwhhNgjxkp8

[MadtownPacker]

My cute moose avatar is gone. WTF?

Whatever.I took it off. Do you have a problem with that you little fucking bitch??

[call_me_ishmael]

Overrated? I don't think so. Where do people view him? He will eventually be a very good QB in my opinion. He's short, but mobile, and has a gun. He's a natural leader. Easy to see him being a good player coming out of UW. It's all about the arm with these guys - and he has one.

[smuggler]

I stopped reading after that .

I do think there are a lot of QBs that would have won with the Seagulls in that game. I mean a lot. Tavaris is probably on the list, but Russell Wilson is not a robotic game manager.

[KYPack]

I took it off. Do you have a problem with that you little fucking bitch??

Some of 'em get Patlerized.

Tank is getting "Fresno-ed".

This is gonna be fun.

The knot is behind his left ear.

[Brandon494]

I do think there are a lot of QBs that would have won with the Seagulls in that game. I mean a lot. Tavaris is probably on the list, but Russell Wilson is not a robotic game manager.

The super bowl isn't won in one game, I'm talking about the whole season.

[run pMc]

He's not top 5, but he might be Top 10...depends on your preference. If I could ignore his off-field d-baggery, I'd rate Rapelisberger over Wilson as QB.

I'd call Wilson good, maybe very good, but not great/elite. People will overrate him because he just won a Super Bowl. Fair enough, but Trent Dilfer did too.

[denverYooper]

Top 10... probably. He has tools to do well for a number of years, but we won't know how good he is until they have to start letting other premium players go to fit his next contract.

[Zool]

Baldwin is now probably their best receiver. Other than Lynch, what skill position players on Seattle are above average? Wilson is a good QB and only in his 2nd year. I assume he wont make the HOF or anything, but I bet the Vikings or Bears would take him in a heartbeat.

[run pMc]

Harvin, when healthy, is pretty darn good.
Tate's not a bad #2 or #3 but I'd take Jordy or Cobb over him.

Sidney Rice was good before all the injuries, back when He Who Shall Not Be Named was the Viking QB throwing him the ball. Now I think he's probably done in SEA and signs as a #3WR with another contender.

Wilson's receivers weren't that great, but Wilson's ability to scramble and keep plays alive along with effective play action thanks to the threat of Lynch are what made the difference. Tough to cover receivers -- even average ones -- for 5+ seconds.

[Rodgers12]

I took it off. Do you have a problem with that you little fucking bitch??

Check your PMs. I have sent you 100 threatening messages.

Seriously, I'm like Horatio in Hamlet. I am indifference about what happened to the cute moose avatar. :)

[Rodgers12]

I do think there are a lot of QBs that would have won with the Seagulls in that game. I mean a lot. Tavaris is probably on the list, but Russell Wilson is not a robotic game manager.

He was in the recent playoffs, IMHO, of course.

Then again, with that defense, Wilson didn't have to do anything but manage the game.

[Rodgers12]

Baldwin is now probably their best receiver. Other than Lynch, what skill position players on Seattle are above average? Wilson is a good QB and only in his 2nd year. I assume he wont make the HOF or anything, but I bet the Vikings or Bears would take him in a heartbeat.

Would the Vikings or Bears have won the SB this season with Wilson? Look at their defenses.

Like I wrote in the first post, it will be interesting to see how Wilson carries a team without a dominating defense. Wilson is certainly talented. Is he elite talented? Time will tell, obviously.

[run pMc]

Would the Vikings or Bears have won the SB this season with Wilson? Look at their defenses.

Like I wrote in the first post, it will be interesting to see how Wilson carries a team without a dominating defense. Wilson is certainly talented. Is he elite talented? Time will tell, obviously.

The Vikings would probably have won the division with Wilson at QB but still likely have lost in the WC round. Peterson running the ball and Jennings, Patterson, et al at WR would score points...but that defense would get exposed against better teams. Also, the way their OL played this year, Wilson might not have lasted all 16 games.

The Bears might have won enough games to take the division -- I'd take Marshall, Jefferies, Bennett and Forte over who SEA had as skill players (Harvin was hurt most of the year), but their defense was probably worse than Minnesota's. The NFCN was not a good defensive division and you need something that at least approximates an average defense to be a serious contender IMO.

I agree he's talented, but he has some convincing to do before we call him elite. Fortunately for him, that defense will be good for at least a few years (APRH), and Lynch's odometer can still add a few miles.
I read that Vegas had SEA as 9-2 favorites to repeat.

[Brandon494]

Besides height he has everything you want for a starting QB. Look at his stats as a 2nd year player and add the fact he just won a SB....I wouldn't say hes elite yet but hes for sure a top 8 QB in the league now. His numbers should only get better with Harvin in the mix next season.

[Pugger]

He's not top 5, but he might be Top 10...depends on your preference. If I could ignore his off-field d-baggery, I'd rate Rapelisberger over Wilson as QB.

I'd call Wilson good, maybe very good, but not great/elite. People will overrate him because he just won a Super Bowl. Fair enough, but Trent Dilfer did too.

This.

[LEWCWA]

I find it a little disconcerting, the lack of respect RW gets in here. When our great QB has to endure the same types of criticisms. Anybody could win with that team, He is good but not great! Well I think he has a little bit of Bart in him and all he seems to do is win.

[Smeefers]

Would the Vikings or Bears have won the SB this season with Wilson? Look at their defenses.

Like I wrote in the first post, it will be interesting to see how Wilson carries a team without a dominating defense. Wilson is certainly talented. Is he elite talented? Time will tell, obviously.

I think RW outshined manning in the superbowl. Hands down. Peyton had weak wobbly all over the place passes and Wilson was sharp and crisp. Game managers don't win by 35 points. He wasn't ineffective. He had a solid performance.

All the talk about how he would do on another team is moot. You have no idea how he would perform in a different system with different players. Would Rodgers shine as much as he does if he played for the browns? Would he still be a top 4 QB?

There's no doubt in anyone's mind that the reason Seattle won the super bowl was because of their defense. Absolutely no one is saying that RW carried that team on his shoulders. Are you implying that somehow tarnishes his playing ability?

[MJZiggy]

I find it a little disconcerting, the lack of respect RW gets in here. When our great QB has to endure the same types of criticisms. Anybody could win with that team, He is good but not great! Well I think he has a little bit of Bart in him and all he seems to do is win.

RW is still a kid. He's been in the league two years and when folks think of what Rodgers was like in his second year, maybe they'll get that RW is a great kid with a good head on his shoulders who has the potential to continue being a very dangerous football player. Yes, he has good players around him, but he also has time to grow with them. When you think about what he just did, and realize how long he has to refine his craft in his career, I'd think that that might be a little scary.

[pbmax]

He is the perfect QB at his current price. I wonder how much he will get on the next deal?

I doubt, though its only a suspicion, that he can pull a team along with him like Rodgers, Brady or Manning. Hell, even Rothliesberger. So $20 million per year might be to his detriment

But Flacco and Eli have done it with good not great defenses. He could easily be in that range. And that range is still darn expensive.

[Rodgers12]

I think RW outshined manning in the superbowl. Hands down. Peyton had weak wobbly all over the place passes and Wilson was sharp and crisp. Game managers don't win by 35 points. He wasn't ineffective. He had a solid performance.

All the talk about how he would do on another team is moot. You have no idea how he would perform in a different system with different players. Would Rodgers shine as much as he does if he played for the browns? Would he still be a top 4 QB?

There's no doubt in anyone's mind that the reason Seattle won the super bowl was because of their defense. Absolutely no one is saying that RW carried that team on his shoulders. Are you implying that somehow tarnishes his playing ability?

Game managers DON'T need to win by 35 points. Not when your defense and special teams are scoring points, as the Gulls did in the SB.

Take away Manning, Brady and Rodgers and replace them with game managers and their teams would stink. Take away Wilson and replace him with a game manager and the Gulls would probably still win the SB.

Wilson's playoffs stats weren't great. They were Alex Smithesque, and Alex Smith is a game manager.

[mraynrand]

Game managers DON'T need to win by 35 points. Not when your defense and special teams are scoring points, as the Gulls did in the SB.

Take away Manning, Brady and Rodgers and replace them with game managers and their teams would stink. Take away Wilson and replace him with a game manager and the Gulls would probably still win the SB.

Wilson's playoffs stats weren't great. They were Alex Smithesque, and Alex Smith is a game manager.

There's some chicken-egg going on here. If your defense outscores the other team, you play it differently and don't put up all the stats.

So you watch both QBs play a few games and ask who has the skills and can make plays; who is a better leader, etc. etc. Wilson generally looks a little better than Alex Smith, mostly because he can make more plays with his feet.

It's hard to imagine replacing Manning with any other QB in the Superbowl and having them look worse. I imaging Wilson QBing the Broncos would have done better!

QBs always get too much credit and too much blame, so Wilson is probably being overrated right now, but he's more than a game manager.

[denverYooper]

It's hard to imagine replacing Manning with any other QB in the Superbowl and having them look worse. I imaging Wilson QBing the Broncos would have done better!


Wilson probably would have just run the first play instead of trying to audible. No snap over the head. No safety. Maybe a 3 and out, but that has a bit different effect on the complexion of the game ;).

[KYPack]

It's Tank.

He doesn't know what he's talking about, so none of us know what's he's babbling about, either.

Your moose ran away, boy.

Now you can't hide in it's shadow.

[denverYooper]

It's Tank.

He doesn't know what he's talking about, so none of us know what's he's babbling about, either.

Your moose ran away, boy.

Now you can't hide in it's shadow.

Send out the search team!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bf4Bz8tIEAAYirz.jpg:small

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I find it a little disconcerting, the lack of respect RW gets in here. When our great QB has to endure the same types of criticisms. Anybody could win with that team, He is good but not great! Well I think he has a little bit of Bart in him and all he seems to do is win.

Rodgers is the man, but he can really silence any other doubters he has this year. Looks like in a year period he will probably lose Jennings, Driver, Finley, Jones, and Quarless.

2008: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Lee, Finley. (Finley and Nelson were rookies)
2009: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee
2010: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee, Quarless
2011: Jennings, Driver Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley, Quarless....sick
2012: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley
2013: Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Boykin, Finley, Quarless
2014: Nelson, Cobb, ???? - Boykin is good but not really good (at least not yet)

Depends on what happens in the draft and free agency, but 2014 is looking like the first year Rodgers might not have 4 or 5 solid options.

[Zool]

Rodgers is the man, but he can really silence any other doubters he has this year. Looks like in a year period he will probably lose Jennings, Driver, Finley, Jones, and Quarless.

2008: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Lee, Finley. (Finley and Nelson were rookies)
2009: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee
2010: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee, Quarless
2011: Jennings, Driver Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley, Quarless....sick
2012: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley
2013: Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Boykin, Finley, Quarless
2014: Nelson, Cobb, ???? - Boykin is good but not really good (at least not yet)

Depends on what happens in the draft and free agency, but 2014 is looking like the first year Rodgers might not have 4 or 5 solid options.

Jennings started 5 games in 2012. Cobb started 4 games in 2013. Finley started 5 games in 2013. Injuries killed the Packers O this season.

Rodgers stat line for 2013 in 8 games + 1 drive

193 for 290 66.6%
2536 yards
17 TDs
6 picks

He really should have silenced any doubters over the last 3 seasons, but that's why they are called doubters. They doubt despite overwhelming facts.

[QBME]

Send out the search team!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bf4Bz8tIEAAYirz.jpg:small

http://i57.tinypic.com/2j3fpxw.jpg

By sea, and by air!!

[denverYooper]

Jennings started 5 games in 2012. Cobb started 4 games in 2013. Finley started 5 games in 2013. Injuries killed the Packers O this season.

Rodgers stat line for 2013 in 8 games + 1 drive

193 for 290 66.6%
2536 yards
17 TDs
6 picks

He really should have silenced any doubters over the last 3 seasons, but that's why they are called doubters. They doubt despite overwhelming facts.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 12m
RT @PFF: With drops factored in, Aaron Rodgers was the league's most accurate QB this season. Accurate on 79.3% of passes.

...just to continue the threadjack.

[denverYooper]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2j3fpxw.jpg

By sea, and by air!!

Guy's just a beast.

Vladdy's underrated.

[mraynrand]

...just to continue the threadjack.

humping, errr....Jumping the shark!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FYfgqjECs1I/TeJoA2899DI/AAAAAAAAEII/7js84oWpRPk/s400/tumblr_kuxr34jtOb1qzeu38o1_400.png

[mraynrand]

All of nature submits to his will! (can Wilson say the same?)

http://jpgmag.com/news/enhanced-buzz-16842-1289787839-3.jpg

[sheepshead]

How can a guy who just won the SB- could have easily been mvp and making $500k a year be 'overrated' ? What 'rating system" are you looking at?

[sheepshead]

Might be underrated

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

[mraynrand]

Might be underrated

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr


LOL - total QBR; Flynn #39 after Joss Whedon; McCown #1 overall.

Is McCown underrated??

[Zool]

LOL - total QBR; Flynn #39 after Joss Whedon; McCown #1 overall.

Is McCown underrated??

I know he's very close to over the hill. Is that the same?

[Pugger]

Harvin, when healthy, is pretty darn good.
Tate's not a bad #2 or #3 but I'd take Jordy or Cobb over him.

Sidney Rice was good before all the injuries, back when He Who Shall Not Be Named was the Viking QB throwing him the ball. Now I think he's probably done in SEA and signs as a #3WR with another contender.

Wilson's receivers weren't that great, but Wilson's ability to scramble and keep plays alive along with effective play action thanks to the threat of Lynch are what made the difference. Tough to cover receivers -- even average ones -- for 5+ seconds.

Yes, Wilson's scrambling ability and having Lynch behind him is what helps his game. He'll never be a QB who will be able to carry his team on his back like the true elites do.

[Pugger]

Rodgers is the man, but he can really silence any other doubters he has this year. Looks like in a year period he will probably lose Jennings, Driver, Finley, Jones, and Quarless.

2008: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Lee, Finley. (Finley and Nelson were rookies)
2009: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee
2010: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Lee, Quarless
2011: Jennings, Driver Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley, Quarless....sick
2012: Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley
2013: Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Boykin, Finley, Quarless
2014: Nelson, Cobb, ???? - Boykin is good but not really good (at least not yet)

Depends on what happens in the draft and free agency, but 2014 is looking like the first year Rodgers might not have 4 or 5 solid options.

But with a legit running game and thus a more balanced offense Rodgers might not need 4 or 5 receiving options.

[Brandon494]

Yes, Wilson's scrambling ability and having Lynch behind him is what helps his game. He'll never be a QB who will be able to carry his team on his back like the true elites do.

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with. People want to compare him to Fran Tarkenton (who was almost born in my hometown Richmond, VA) but I see a lot of Steve Young in his game.

[mraynrand]

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with.

Depending on what you define as young, I'd probably agree with you. (Ranking the rest of the 'young guns': Kap, Foles, Newton, Luck, ...gap... Dalton, RGIII).

Talking with people from Seattle, Wilson is a leader of men; that aspect should not be underestimated. It's one of the things that made Bart so effective.

[bobblehead]

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with. People want to compare him to Fran Tarkenton (who was almost born in my hometown Richmond, VA) but I see a lot of Steve Young in his game.

I agree with you and Pugger. My opinion is that he won't ever be the QB that carries a team. I also am open to the possibility he developes into a Drew Brees type. I'm a Russel Fan, being he is a UW alumni, but I don't think my vision is clouded too much in either direction. I also have a strong bias against run first QB's (like Tebow...see, I mentioned a white guy just for you). Wilson is always looking downfield when he is running around, and that separates him from Kap and/or Cam. His arm also isn't as powerful as those 2 though, and Cam has under rated touch on his passes.

Conclusion: Best of the young? Well, he has a trophy and that is a great start to the debate.

edit a PS: When saying saying someone doesn't actually watch football you look smarter when you use the correct form of here.

[Brandon494]

I shouldn't have said they don't watch football but rather I mean the only games they really watch are Packer games. I'm just saying from what this kid has done in his first 2 seasons and the type of leader he is showing he can be I don't see any reason why he can't be elite someday in this league. His only disadvantage is his height, he has every other tool you look for in a QB plus hes a born leader. Anyway agree to disagree I guess, I just can't wait to bump this thread in a few years. :)

[Pugger]

Lmao so you have a crystal ball now? Hes only in his second year, you really think hes hit his plateau? You can tell which fans hear actually watch/know football and which fans only go by what they see on sports center. IMO hes the best young QB in the game, wait til hes gets a true #1 receiver to work with. People want to compare him to Fran Tarkenton (who was almost born in my hometown Richmond, VA) but I see a lot of Steve Young in his game.

I've probably been watching football longer than you've been alive so I don't need to watch BSPN to figure out the game. Wilson IS surrounded by one hell of supporting cast. Let's see what happens after they pay him the big bucks to see if they can keep this talent around him before we declare him the second coming of Steve Young.

[Brandon494]

I've probably been watching football longer than you've been alive so I don't need to watch BSPN to figure out the game. Wilson IS surrounded by one hell of supporting cast. Let's see what happens after they pay him the big bucks to see if they can keep this talent around him before we declare him the second coming of Steve Young.

On defense!!! Besides Lynch who else made up this hell of a supporting cast? Besides Harvin who didn't play all season the WRs are all average, average TE, average O-line. Yes the defense is the reason they won the Super Bowl but they have no effect on Russells offensive stats. Hes only in his 2nd year and hes already playing like a season vet...you don't think he has the room to get better when hes 25? Rodgers didn't even play til he was 25 and his first season starting wasn't even as good as Wilson's rookie year. Wilson just has that "IT" factor and everyone who knows football can see that.

[Zool]

On defense!!! Besides Lynch who else made up this hell of a supporting cast? Besides Harvin who didn't play all season the WRs are all average, average TE, average O-line. Yes the defense is the reason they won the Super Bowl but they have no effect on Russells offensive stats. Hes only in his 2nd year and hes already playing like a season vet...you don't think he has the room to get better when hes 25? Rodgers didn't even play til he was 25 and his first season starting wasn't even as good as Wilson's rookie year. Wilson just has that "IT" factor and everyone who knows football can see that.

Wilson played a year in the minors before going back for a 5th year at UW. He's 25 now and turns 26 during the 2014 season. He's nearing his plateau. IMO he's too erratic to be a 4000 yard passer every year but he has to be considered in the top 10 QBs right now. APRH, he should play 10+ years and be a franchise QB for his entire career. I'm with you on his supporting cast. Not one of the pass catchers would start in GB other than China Doll Harvin and he can't be counted on to stay healthy.

[Brandon494]

He didn't miss a year playing minors, that was the plan but he decided to come back to football. Unfortunately for him NC State had already moved on with current Bucs starter Glennon and that's when Russell made the transfer to Wisconsin. He was able to transfer without waiting a year because he had already graduated. Also he just turned 25 two months ago...Rodgers hadn't even had a career start under his belt...he is far from reaching his plateau. Lets not also forget the division they are in and the defenses he has to face twice a year.

[Bretsky]

Brandon makes a lot of great points and I find it hard to forecast whether he is elite or not.

What goes unsaid here is in the second half of the season Russell Wilson's OL was terrible.

They were sound at the beginning but they NEEDED a scrambler during the second half of the season.
Rusell Wilson has accmplished more in his first two seasons win wise and QB rating wise than any QB I can remember
What is Russell Wilsons QB Rating in the playoffs ? That will shock the people who don't think he can ever be elite ?
Russell Wilson was playing on a very sub par offense last year. They has Lynch, an average OL who broke down late in the year, and sub par Wide Receivers.

He played with the best defense in the NFL that often gave him nice field position...that might have led to his lack of stats on paper as well.

He gave them exactly what they needed.

I'm not going to say he's ever going to be elite. But IMO you are selling him short by saying he wont' be. What I do know is he's overachieved even those with the greatest expectations, and had a better start in his first two years than a QB I can remember.

There are not many QB's IMO who would have led that team to a win over San Francisco. Throw in an elite but immobile QB and Seattle would have lost.

[bobblehead]

I shouldn't have said they don't watch football but rather I mean the only games they really watch are Packer games. I'm just saying from what this kid has done in his first 2 seasons and the type of leader he is showing he can be I don't see any reason why he can't be elite someday in this league. His only disadvantage is his height, he has every other tool you look for in a QB plus hes a born leader. Anyway agree to disagree I guess, I just can't wait to bump this thread in a few years. :)

We don't actually disagree. I mainly disagreed with your tone. I don't know how good Russel might become, right now he is damn good, not yet elite.

[Bretsky]

It's too early to call him elite. Was Payton Manning, Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers elite after two years ? Wilson has a nice start to getting there and in terms of QB's I'd take over him going forward there are not too many.

[Pugger]

Brandon makes a lot of great points and I find it hard to forecast whether he is elite or not.

What goes unsaid here is in the second half of the season Russell Wilson's OL was terrible.

They were sound at the beginning but they NEEDED a scrambler during the second half of the season.
Rusell Wilson has accmplished more in his first two seasons win wise and QB rating wise than any QB I can remember
What is Russell Wilsons QB Rating in the playoffs ? That will shock the people who don't think he can ever be elite ?
Russell Wilson was playing on a very sub par offense last year. They has Lynch, an average OL who broke down late in the year, and sub par Wide Receivers.

He played with the best defense in the NFL that often gave him nice field position...that might have led to his lack of stats on paper as well.

He gave them exactly what they needed.

I'm not going to say he's ever going to be elite. But IMO you are selling him short by saying he wont' be. What I do know is he's overachieved even those with the greatest expectations, and had a better start in his first two years than a QB I can remember.

There are not many QB's IMO who would have led that team to a win over San Francisco. Throw in an elite but immobile QB and Seattle would have lost.

Russell also has Lynch behind him. I like Wilson (I just hate the team he is on) but we can't say yet for sure one way or another if he'll be another elite QB or not.

[Bretsky]

Russell also has Lynch behind him. I like Wilson (I just hate the team he is on) but we can't say yet for sure one way or another if he'll be another elite QB or not.



OK...so he has a very good RB.

But give them the average QB w/o mobility and that is a below average offense.

Wilson made them a better offense.

Lynch and his Beast Mode get pimped all the time in the media. But is he really elite ?

All Day Peterso is elite. Lesean Mccoy and Charles as well.

Lynch is in the next group of backs below them.

[mraynrand]

Might be interesting to see Brandon494's views on other aspects of the Packers, in addition to an opponent's QB.

[mraynrand]

What goes unsaid here is in the second half of the season Russell Wilson's OL was terrible.


Giacomini is a stiff. And he gets all sorts of BA penalties. If he plays next year, look for late hits galore!

[Zool]

He didn't miss a year playing minors, that was the plan but he decided to come back to football. Unfortunately for him NC State had already moved on with current Bucs starter Glennon and that's when Russell made the transfer to Wisconsin. He was able to transfer without waiting a year because he had already graduated. Also he just turned 25 two months ago...Rodgers hadn't even had a career start under his belt...he is far from reaching his plateau. Lets not also forget the division they are in and the defenses he has to face twice a year.

I'm not going to compare him to Rodgers because that's not fair. Wilson at 25 has a much better brain for the game than did AR but AR had an arm that made everyone look when he threw the ball. The brain came later. I think Wilson has everything you want in a QB other than that arm that makes people say wow. He's pretty GD good though. I'd take hi over Flacco every single day of the week. He doesn't have the fatal flaw of turnovers at the worst time. That's why I think he's better right now than Flacco is right now.

I just don't think he's going to hit that top 3 passer in the league. We're probably just splitting hairs though.

Can we go back to taking about hating Carroll? I think we can all agree on that one.

[ThunderDan]

Just so we are discussing the SEA offense that actually happened during the year and not what we remember from the last few playoff games.

339 ypg, 17th in the league.
202.2 ypg passing, 26th in the league.
26.1 ppg, tied 8th with GB.

[denverYooper]

Just so we are discussing the SEA offense that actually happened during the year and not what we remember from the last few playoff games.

339 ypg, 17th in the league.
202.2 ypg passing, 26th in the league.
26.1 ppg, tied 8th with GB.

Is that ppg number combined O/D/ST scores or offense only?

[ThunderDan]

Is that ppg number combined O/D/ST scores or offense only?

It includes all points scored by team.

[mraynrand]

Just so we are discussing the SEA offense that actually happened during the year and not what we remember from the last few playoff games.

339 ypg, 17th in the league.
202.2 ypg passing, 26th in the league.
26.1 ppg, tied 8th with GB.

Jim McMahon: Overrated?

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-on/2011/03/03/mcmahonx-large.jpg

[Smeefers]

Game managers DON'T need to win by 35 points. Not when your defense and special teams are scoring points, as the Gulls did in the SB.

Take away Manning, Brady and Rodgers and replace them with game managers and their teams would stink. Take away Wilson and replace him with a game manager and the Gulls would probably still win the SB.

Wilson's playoffs stats weren't great. They were Alex Smithesque, and Alex Smith is a game manager.


Yes, Wilson's scrambling ability and having Lynch behind him is what helps his game. He'll never be a QB who will be able to carry his team on his back like the true elites do.

This is what I don't understand. I haven't heard one person call Wilson Elite. I haven't heard one person say that Wilson could hoist a team on his back and carry them to the super bowl. If you take away the 14 points his D scored, they still dominated the Broncos. What people are doing is calling him good and that is by no means over rating him.

I totally disagree that if you take away Wilson that the Gulls would have won the super bowl. He's a perfect fit for the system that they run there. He makes very very few mistakes and keeps the ball rolling.

I don't understand how this conversation went from "Is RW over rated" to "RW wouldn't have won the super bowl without his monster D." Well no shit sherlock. Congratulations Captain Obvious.

[mraynrand]

Patler: overrated?

http://packerrats.com/image.php?u=99&dateline=1333214227

[ThunderDan]

Jim McMahon: Overrated?

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-on/2011/03/03/mcmahonx-large.jpg

Probably, I am not saying that Wilson is overrated. I just put up the SEA stats. Is he elite? I don't think so passing for 3,200 yards in a 4,500 yard league. But I put that squarely on the offense Seattle runs. They don't ask for Wilson to throw the ball all over the field.

[pbmax]

Jim McMahon: Overrated?

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymarge.jpg

Had I known then what I know now*, I would have been more mad at the Punky QB for giving Rozelle a figurative middle finger.


* That his successors would eventually be much worse.

[MadtownPacker]

We don't actually disagree. I mainly disagreed with your tone. I don't know how good Russel might become, right now he is damn good, not yet elite.
That's right! Nobody here likes a mouthy kneegrow speaking his mind! :lol:

Wilson is a good QB and appears to be a great leader. He can learn to be a better QB with time. Leaders are born.

[mraynrand]

http://packerrats.com/image.php?u=177&dateline=1391561000

PBmax: Overrated?

[MadtownPacker]

Let's be honest, PB has the stats but really, how many where deep passes? If you look closely you might notice they are just a bunch of twitter handoffs that skilled posters are able to dissect and discuss. Really just a thread manager IMO.

[mraynrand]

Really just a thread manager IMO.

LOL

[Bretsky]

Just so we are discussing the SEA offense that actually happened during the year and not what we remember from the last few playoff games.

339 ypg, 17th in the league.
202.2 ypg passing, 26th in the league.
26.1 ppg, tied 8th with GB.


These are great stats to consider ThnunderDan......thx for looking them up.

QB rating to me is also very important as it placed a lot of weights of the TD to INT ratio and completeiion percentage

[Bretsky]

Which QB's would you clearly take over Wilson going into next year if you were Seattle ?

The OBVIOUS: Brady, Brees, P Manning, A Rodgers


Unless I misses somebody obvious, the rest would be debateable IMO

I know someobdy will throw out Cam Newton. While the dude has more talent, I'd take Russell Wilson and his leadership any day at this point.

There are a loot of others to debate out..............nobody is calling Russell Wilson elite............but the above 4 are probably the only ones who are.

[pbmax]

Let's be honest, PB has the stats but really, how many where deep passes? If you look closely you might notice they are just a bunch of twitter handoffs that skilled posters are able to dissect and discuss. Really just a thread manager IMO.


LOL

I really think of myself as an accumulator. Not great single year, but stuck around forever.

In Game Day threads.

[Patler]

Is Wilson overrated? Absolutely.
First of all, he is a runt.
I also heard his little toe on his left foot is 1mm shorter than the preferred length for a right handed QB.
Then, there was the pre-draft report on his fore-arm to upper-arm ratio. Just awful!
Don't even get me started on his non-symetric earlobes.

You can probably win some games with him, but with that height, little toe, arm length ratio and earlobe asymetry, he will never be good enough to win the big one for you.


Oh......



Wait.....


Never mind.