Louis Delmas Cut

[call_me_ishmael]

Sign him. Sign him now. Fly a plane out there, force him on it, get his ink.

5M a year for him or 8-9M for Byrd is a no brainer. Do it. Do it now!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

He's worth a look, but 5 mil a year might be to high for him.

[mraynrand]

why was he cut?

[Joemailman]

why was he cut?

Probably because the Lions are (or at least were) over the salary cap. The Lions in 2014 will have 51 million tied up in 3 players (Suh, Stafford and Megatron). Comapred to the Packers 37 million for Rodgers, Matthews and Tramon.

[Carolina_Packer]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/13/lions-dump-louis-delmas-too/ Yep, salary cap move. I think he'd be OK, but may not be as impactful as the Packers need on the back end of their defense. Is he better than Doc Jennings? Yes, but if you're going to spend the money, get someone better.

[Rastak]

why was he cut?

Cost alot and his knees are kinda shot.

[KYPack]

Cost alot and his knees are kinda shot.

Usually, I figure most vet, high dollar FA's are fools gold. Ras is right, Delmas has had knee miseries, but I dunno if shot is the right adjective. Louis is a pro and a great hand back there. Not the fastest S in the league, but he knows the job. He would end our FA money, but man, he might be worth it.

Hey, lemme dream, it's off-season.

[Bossman641]

Isn't Delmas injured ALL the time?

[Joemailman]

Isn't Delmas injured ALL the time?

He was injured a lot on 2011-2012, but he started all 16 games in 2013.

[call_me_ishmael]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/13/lions-dump-louis-delmas-too/ Yep, salary cap move. I think he'd be OK, but may not be as impactful as the Packers need on the back end of their defense. Is he better than Doc Jennings? Yes, but if you're going to spend the money, get someone better.

26 years old w/ two pro bowls? That's pretty solid.

[pbmax]

PFT says Lions would be interested in getting Delmas back at a reduced rate.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/13/lions-want-delmas-back-but-he-plans-to-test-market/

One question: Do you want a FS to stay back and range sideline to sideline so Burnett can be the SS near the box? Or do you want Burnett back there and the new guy near the LOS?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

PFT says Lions would be interested in getting Delmas back at a reduced rate.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/13/lions-want-delmas-back-but-he-plans-to-test-market/

One question: Do you want a FS to stay back and range sideline to sideline so Burnett can be the SS near the box? Or do you want Burnett back there and the new guy near the LOS?

I want Burnett gone

[packer4life]

I want Burnett gone

Nice.

[packer4life]

I think Burnett is better used as centerfielder. Draft or sign a true thumper SS, but just get him here already.

[call_me_ishmael]

PFT says Lions would be interested in getting Delmas back at a reduced rate.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/13/lions-want-delmas-back-but-he-plans-to-test-market/

One question: Do you want a FS to stay back and range sideline to sideline so Burnett can be the SS near the box? Or do you want Burnett back there and the new guy near the LOS?

Burnett in the box unless they can find a big MOFO.

[3irty1]

Burnett is a much better SS than a FS IMO.

[Joemailman]

Burnett is a much better SS than a FS IMO.

I agree. When TT drafted Burnett, he thought he would be pairing him with Nick Collins for several years. Burnett was supposed to be an upgrade over Atari Bigby, not Nick Collins' replacement.

[run pMc]

Burnett is a much better SS than a FS IMO.

This is what I've been wondering lately -- is Burnett a better FS or a SS? The writers sometimes say the two are fairly interchangable, but I'd expect each still has it's points of emphasis. I thought Burnett was supposed to be a SS...in which case I'd think you'd want a speedy ballhawk at FS. For as many tackles as Burnett missed, he's got a lot of room to improve as a SS though.

To the original topic, I'd pass on Delmas at $5M, unless that was for 2 seasons. Even then, I'm not sure he's who you want at FS, plus there's the age and injury history thing working against TT signing him. Detroit will try to keep him if they can sort out their cap mess.

[3irty1]

All the parts of Burnett that make him special are wasted as a center fielder, he's much more valuable closer to the line of scrimmage. He's an excellent athlete but is truly elite in his ability to change directions. At Georgia Tech they actually used him a lot like we used Woodson, as a huge slot corner and he nabbed 14 interceptions in just 3 years. Put him near the line and that quickness starts to matter more than pure speed. Also he's tall and very long and plays up to that size which is more useful in the box where man coverage with tight ends is a more common assignment. In college and as a rookie he hadn't been a very physical tackler which is pretty much the only reason a guy with his body and his ball skills would fall to the 3rd round, he didn't appear to be ideal for either the FS or SS spots. In years two and three though Burnett made huge strides in this area, and looked to be turning a weakness into a strength. I think if you can get a good FS for the Packers you're really getting two for the price of one as it frees Burnett from a responsibility where he's only mediocre.

In contrast Nick Collins was an elite athlete in terms of straight line speed and ability to plant and drive in an explosive way, but lacked the fluid change of direction skills to excel at corner in the NFL. In the deep potions of the field he's a shark in water. This is the mold Ted is probably looking for, he just needs someone who can play football like Collins.

[bobblehead]

Agree with your assessment 31. Collins was explosively fast. Accelerated like crazy, but not fluid. If he were, he would have been the best CB in the game.

[Cheesehead Craig]

There's better safties than Delmas out there, try for one of those first.

[Fritz]

Oops. double post.

[Fritz]

PFT says Lions would be interested in getting Delmas back at a reduced rate.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/13/lions-want-delmas-back-but-he-plans-to-test-market/

One question: Do you want a FS to stay back and range sideline to sideline so Burnett can be the SS near the box? Or do you want Burnett back there and the new guy near the LOS?


But can they even afford to try to re-sign Delmas - or anybody, for that matter?


Here's a link to an article on the Lions' cap space situation, specifically as it relates to Nadahmawatever Suh:


http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140215/SPORTS0101/302150046/Lions-Ndamukong-Suh-has-all-power-contract-extension-talks?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

What's interesting is that the article's writer says the team president, Tom Lewan, has done a good job "carving out cap space" for the team by renegotiating Calvin Johnson's and Matt Stafford's contracts the past couple years, yet a few paragraphs later the article says the Lions don't even have enough cap space to sign their 2014 coming draft class, much less anyone else.

Suh's contract hit for this year, his last of the rookie contract, is just above 22 million. What's odd is that the article says that even if the Lions were to trade Suh, they'd still have a cap hit of 19 million this year. That doesn't make sense to me, but maybe it's a mistake in the article, or maybe I don't understand the cap and trading.

The article also says that if they cut him, Suh will still count 19 mill against the cap this year.

So Suh holds all the cards in any renegotiation. My guess is that this will mean another back-end-heavy contract for the Lions.

I don't see how they can afford to re-sign Delmas, or sign any free agents, if they still don't have enough cap space to sign their draft class, even after cutting Nate Burleson and Louis Delmas.

[Guiness]

The article also says that if they cut him, Suh will still count 19 mill against the cap this year.

So Suh holds all the cards in any renegotiation. My guess is that this will mean another back-end-heavy contract for the Lions.



Saw an article about the reasons behind Suh's number. He was part of the last big money rookie class, so his contract was onerous to begin with. His contract has been renegotiated the past two years to push money out, I'd guess by turning base salaries into signing bonuses or pushing money to later years and fully guaranteeing it. Well, it's time to pay the piper, and considering Suh was DROY and has been AP All Pro and/or a Pro Bowler every year he's been in the league, he is not going to be inclined to give the Lions any discount at all. DT franchise number of $8.5M be damned, I doubt he gets a cent under $16M/year.

[smuggler]

I see no reason why Suh would agree to let the Lions fictionalize any of his guaranteed money. If I were Suh, I'd make them triple the guaranteed money to $60 million if they wanted to restructure.

[Guiness]

I see no reason why Suh would agree to let the Lions fictionalize any of his guaranteed money. If I were Suh, I'd make them triple the guaranteed money to $60 million if they wanted to restructure.

That's what I expect he'll demand, years added but with more guaranteed money. He'll likely allow them to change his guaranteed base from this coming year into a signing bonus, I don't think that ends up any skin off his nose.

[Fritz]

That's what I expect he'll demand, years added but with more guaranteed money. He'll likely allow them to change his guaranteed base from this coming year into a signing bonus, I don't think that ends up any skin off his nose.

The Lions are already under the gun, as noted above, and so doing this, as you suggest, will squeeze them some room but will put them in an incredible bind very shortly. They're working the Mike Sherman School of Capology.

[Freak Out]

Steelers looking at him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/17/steelers-hosting-louis-delmas/

[Bretsky]

I'd jump at Delmas

[Carolina_Packer]

Buffalo would make sense. His former coach just took over as DC, Jairus Byrd is likely to leave because he wants to get paid, so they will have an opening at free safety. According to Sirius XM NFL Radio, Schwartz really likes Delmas in his defense. Would not shock me to see him go there.

[Bretsky]

Steelers want him, and Jim Schwartz loves him as a long term player. I know everybody dogs on Schwarts but he's a great DC and on the NFL Network ...Pat Kirwin..was noting Buffalo may pursue him.....and anytime he wanted to put Jim Schwartz in a good mood he'd either play Metallica or talk out Delmas

[Guiness]

The Lions are already under the gun, as noted above, and so doing this, as you suggest, will squeeze them some room but will put them in an incredible bind very shortly. They're working the Mike Sherman School of Capology.

I'm just not sure what other option they have. Outside of Suh, their cap is bad but not brutal. Stafford counts for 16, Johnson for 13 against the 2014 cap, pretty reasonable for thehm. After the 3, the numbers are fairly low, all but one under 5M. Fairley only counts for 3.2M.

The Lions have a little over 4M in cap room left, not enough for the draft class, but it's something. The problem is more that after the top three, there is not a lot of room to move on anyone else's contract, so if they want/need room the Lions will have to talk to one of them. Considering they've all been playing well, it's not likely any of them are going look favorably on anything that loses them money. The guy that is way overpaid for his position is Suh, and considering that cutting him would result in a 3M savings (and 19M dead money!!!) they're in a tough spot.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/cap-hit/

[The Shadow]

Bad knees.
Pass.

[mraynrand]

"Considering they've all been playing well"

Stafford was brutal down the stretch last year. But that doesn't at all mean he would be willing to restructure.

[run pMc]

I'm just not sure what other option they have. Outside of Suh, their cap is bad but not brutal. Stafford counts for 16, Johnson for 13 against the 2014 cap, pretty reasonable for thehm. After the 3, the numbers are fairly low, all but one under 5M. Fairley only counts for 3.2M.

The Lions have a little over 4M in cap room left, not enough for the draft class, but it's something. The problem is more that after the top three, there is not a lot of room to move on anyone else's contract, so if they want/need room the Lions will have to talk to one of them. Considering they've all been playing well, it's not likely any of them are going look favorably on anything that loses them money. The guy that is way overpaid for his position is Suh, and considering that cutting him would result in a 3M savings (and 19M dead money!!!) they're in a tough spot.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/cap-hit/

Yep. Speaking of Fairley, he's a UFA after 2014. Don't think that DL is gonna stay together without some negotiations with Suh. Complicating their situation is Stafford/Megatron take up $46.5M in cap space in 2016. Granted, that's 2 years away, but they really don't have a very good cap situation, especially if they keep "renegotiating" like they have. For comparison, the Rodgers/CMIII combo never gets higher than $37M, and if Matthews can't stay healthy I think they'd revisit his contract.

Fitting Suh under the cap on top of that and keeping some of their mid-level players won't be easy. I think they'd like to bring Delmas back, but I also think he'll get enough interest that someone offers him more money.

[denverYooper]

Bad knees.
Pass.

What? He'd be a nice addition to the PackIRs tub.

[3irty1]

Delmas could be something if you can scrub the lions off of him and with his injury history he'd certainly fit right in. There are other options I'd want to exhaust before signing him though.

[Guiness]

"Considering they've all been playing well"

Stafford was brutal down the stretch last year. But that doesn't at all mean he would be willing to restructure.

Well, they seem to be happy with him? :huh:

Started all 16 games in 2013 for the 3rd year running. Passed for 4600 yards, 29TD and 19INT. On paper, that doesn't look bad. At least not bad enough to make them think they bring him back to the table and give some money back.

[mraynrand]

Well, they seem to be happy with him? :huh:

Started all 16 games in 2013 for the 3rd year running. Passed for 4600 yards, 29TD and 19INT. On paper, that doesn't look bad. At least not bad enough to make them think they bring him back to the table and give some money back.

Not counting the final loss at MN, Stafford had 1 TD versus 5 INTs in the last three losses to Philly, Baltimore and the Giants. The stats look great, and you need a QB, so the instinct is to do nothing, except bring in a new coach to clean it up, thinking that the talent is great. But what if the talent is great, but inherently flawed? We shall see next fall...

Still, Det has a very solid backup QB in Sean Hill. You could win with that guy, with everyone else playing up to par. But Stafford isn't going anywhere...

[Fritz]

No, they've hitched their wagon to Stafford, and it remains to be seen if coaching can "clean up" his delivery issues, or if he's doomed to be Brent-like in his capacity for throwing interceptions.

The offseason is, outside of some Packerrats, apparently no time to be realistic. Despite the cap mess in Detroit - even if they renegotiate Suh's final year, they're gonna have to pay him big down the road in order to clear cap space for this year - the writers there are positing that Mayhew will bring in a couple free agents at wide receiver and safety. Names like Hakeem Nicks and Emmanuel Sander at wide receiver, and James Ihedigbo of the Ravens and Antoine Bethea of the Colts, are being mentioned prominently. But they just cut a receiver and a safety to get under the cap, so unless they structure Suh's contract to free up a lot of space, I'm not sure how they sign two mid-level or higher guys, given especially the line below by Chris McCosky of the Detroit News:

"Of their own pending free agents, tight end Brandon Pettigrew, defensive end Willie Young, running back Joique Bell (restricted) and quarterback Shaun Hill, are likely to be priorities for the Lions."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140219/SPORTS0101/302190002#ixzz2tmFogjlE

Personally, I wouldn't want Pettigrew back at all. He's got hands that make Jermichael Finley's look great. I can't tell you how many times Lions' announcers groaned when Pettigrew dropped a pass while wide open. And as for Shaun Hill, he might get a decent contract - he's a very solid backup, and there is a market for that.

I believe that Mayhew and Lewan think they're getting one last spin of the wheel, and they'd better win, so they're going all in for the next two years. I love the slightly sour smell of desperation coming out of the Lions' front office, and I think they're setting themselves up for cap hell in two or three years, tops.

They're gonna have three hugely paid players - Johnson, Stafford, and Suh - and Fairley due up after 2015. They were one of the older teams in the league last year, and they've got only six draft choices this year.

Can a new coach really get it done with this set-up?

[3irty1]

No, they've hitched their wagon to Stafford, and it remains to be seen if coaching can "clean up" his delivery issues, or if he's doomed to be Brent-like in his capacity for throwing interceptions.

The offseason is, outside of some Packerrats, apparently no time to be realistic. Despite the cap mess in Detroit - even if they renegotiate Suh's final year, they're gonna have to pay him big down the road in order to clear cap space for this year - the writers there are positing that Mayhew will bring in a couple free agents at wide receiver and safety. Names like Hakeem Nicks and Emmanuel Sander at wide receiver, and James Ihedigbo of the Ravens and Antoine Bethea of the Colts, are being mentioned prominently. But they just cut a receiver and a safety to get under the cap, so unless they structure Suh's contract to free up a lot of space, I'm not sure how they sign two mid-level or higher guys, given especially the line below by Chris McCosky of the Detroit News:

"Of their own pending free agents, tight end Brandon Pettigrew, defensive end Willie Young, running back Joique Bell (restricted) and quarterback Shaun Hill, are likely to be priorities for the Lions."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140219/SPORTS0101/302190002#ixzz2tmFogjlE

Personally, I wouldn't want Pettigrew back at all. He's got hands that make Jermichael Finley's look great. I can't tell you how many times Lions' announcers groaned when Pettigrew dropped a pass while wide open. And as for Shaun Hill, he might get a decent contract - he's a very solid backup, and there is a market for that.

I believe that Mayhew and Lewan think they're getting one last spin of the wheel, and they'd better win, so they're going all in for the next two years. I love the slightly sour smell of desperation coming out of the Lions' front office, and I think they're setting themselves up for cap hell in two or three years, tops.

They're gonna have three hugely paid players - Johnson, Stafford, and Suh - and Fairley due up after 2015. They were one of the older teams in the league last year, and they've got only six draft choices this year.

Can a new coach really get it done with this set-up?

Seems like they are already in cap hell. I don't think the future could possibly look bleaker than the present. They have been thrashed by the contracts they signed for their 1st and 2nd overall picks before the rookie pay scale existed. Going forward chronic sucking should be much more affordable.