Ray Rice

[Cheesehead Craig]

Knocked his fiancee out, what a classy guy. :roll:

Ray Rice - What a jerk. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10484945/ray-rice-baltimore-ravens-knocked-fiancee-unconscious-altercation)

[Guiness]

Knocked his fiancee out, what a classy guy. :roll:

Ray Rice - What a jerk. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10484945/ray-rice-baltimore-ravens-knocked-fiancee-unconscious-altercation)

There's video from the security cameras at TMZ. Doesn't give much info though, looks more like they're both dead drunk.

[KYPack]

I guess she just would NOT listen to Ray, eh?

If you are gonna totally screw up, Feb is about the best time to do it.

Ray appeared to be showing signs of being all played out last season.

Is there a vid of RR firing her up?

[pbmax]

http://www.tmz.com/2014/02/19/ray-rice-unconscious-fiancee-atlantic-city-video-arrest/?adid=hero1

[KYPack]

He's lugging her around, not punching her out.

The tricky lawyers will weasel RR out of this one.

[Tony Oday]

Ok NOT defending a guy for hitting a woman but that video shows a passed out girlfriend, fucking been there, that doesnt have shoes on and he is trying to get her to the room. He also looks just smashed too. If this was and is the only evidence this goes away quickly.

[Joemailman]

Both were arrested. Sounds like 2 people had too much to drink and got into a fight. She took the worst of it because he probably outweighs her by about 80 pounds.

[smuggler]

Word through the grapevine is she was shittydrunk and started bitchslapping him until he noped her right in the face. I don't feel sympathy for either of these idiots.

[pbmax]

Ok NOT defending a guy for hitting a woman but that video shows a passed out girlfriend, fucking been there, that doesnt have shoes on and he is trying to get her to the room. He also looks just smashed too. If this was and is the only evidence this goes away quickly.

They were arrested for hitting each other, not the elevator video. Rice's lawyer says the video occurred after the hitting.

[MadtownPacker]

Why does the guy always get blamed? These broads wanted to vote, wanted to wear pants, wanted to be treated as equals. Well guess what sister, you want to hit me then expect your ass to get that same treatment a man would get. A punch the face or whatever is appropriate for the moment.

Otherwise get your sweet ass in the kitchen and make us guys some fucking sandwiches.

[Zool]

Why does the guy always get blamed? These broads wanted to vote, wanted to wear pants, wanted to be treated as equals. Well guess what sister, you want to hit me then expect your ass to get that same treatment a man would get. A punch the face or whatever is appropriate for the moment.

Otherwise get your sweet ass in the kitchen and make us guys some fucking sandwiches.

They were both arrested.

He probably didn't need to pop her in the mouth, but whatever. That's his call.

[mraynrand]

Well guess what sister, you want to hit me then expect your ass to get that same treatment a man would get.

That's no contest!

http://media1.giphy.com/media/ugmDMIWwmH81q/200_s.gif

[Rastak]

He's lugging her around, not punching her out.

The tricky lawyers will weasel RR out of this one.


That's a cell phone video of part of the real security video is what I heard.


The whole video shows the knockout punch.

[pbmax]

That's a cell phone video of part of the real security video is what I heard.


The whole video shows the knockout punch.

Sounds like a Buster Keaton movie. Door opens, he is punching her. Door closes/opens again, she is punching him. Close/Open, she drags him out. Close/Open, he runs back in, then drags her out.

We put this in black and white with Title Cards and we win an Oscar.

[Guiness]

Sounds like a Buster Keaton movie. Door opens, he is punching her. Door closes/opens again, she is punching him. Close/Open, she drags him out. Close/Open, he runs back in, then drags her out.

We put this in black and white with Title Cards and we win an Oscar.

rofl!

[pbmax]

Robert Klemko ‏@RobertKlemko 1h
Source says police have yet-to-be-released video of Ray Rice knocking fiancée unconscious before dragging her. Expect a suspension.

[King Friday]

I'd take a punch from Ray Rice for 8 figures too. You go girl!

[pbmax]

Ray Rice gets married, might have gotten poor legal advice prior to ceremony.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 14m
On Friday, there was a conscious coupling for Ray Rice and the woman he allegedly knocked unconscious http://wp.me/p14QSB-9rTR

Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton 43m
Just because every other tweet I see says the Ray Rice marriage was so she cant testify - a Jersey def atty told us that's not a thing in NJ

[red]

in an exclusive interview with packerrats after the ceremony, the wife was asked what it was about ray that made her fall in love. she replied, "what can i say, he just knocked me off my feet"

[KYPack]

Ha.

Not bad, Red.

[Just Jeff]

I'm from the Italian part of town. As the saying goes, "a man fights with his hands, a woman fights with her mouth. When a woman fights like a man, she gets hit like a man." Not sayin, just sayin.

[Guiness]

Reviving this thread because the whole Rice thing needs its own area.

Things may get interesting for the NFL. Someone is calling them liars when they say they didn't have the Rice footage until TMZ released it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/10/report-law-enforcement-sent-ray-rice-video-to-nfl-executive-months-ago/

[KYPack]

He's lugging her around, not punching her out.

The tricky lawyers will weasel RR out of this one.

I was right.

For awhile.

[pbmax]

The NFL is now checking to see if the AP story about receiving the video is correct. Priceless.

[pbmax]

from the other thread:


The latest is that law enforcement sent the NFL the evidence in April including all the video. They better not have. Can you imagine, you get arrested for battery and you're employer calls the police and says "could you shoot me a copy of the evidence you have against our guy" and they fucking do it?

In partial answer to Rastak's questions earlier about whether the Casino could turn over the tape to the NFL: http://deadspin.com/goodell-was-wrong-when-he-said-casino-couldnt-have-give-1633218945?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


We did not ask the Atlantic City casino directly for the video. Again, our understanding of New Jersey law is that the casino is prohibited from turning over material to a third party during a law enforcement proceeding, and that doing so would have subjected individuals to prosecution for interference with a criminal investigation.


Today, TMZ inquired about just that.

Paul Loriquet, the Director of Communications for the New Jersey Attorney General, tells TMZ bluntly, "No, it's not illegal."

To be clear ... our question was very specific: "Is it illegal for the casino to show or provide this material to a private entity in an ongoing investigation." His answer, "No, it's not illegal."

[pbmax]

Via Deadspin a quote from the AP story:


A law enforcement official says he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee to an NFL executive three months ago, while league officers have insisted they didn't see the violent images until this week.

The person played The Associated Press a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female voice expresses thanks and says: "You're right. It's terrible."

That is pretty dead to rights. However, there is even more terrible news on the horizon. If the NFL HAD the tape, then either someone caught wind that they weren't supposed to have it (and buried it, never mentioned again) OR the NFL took steps to make sure it never got out.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/10/espn-legal-analyst-nfl-security-has-been-digging-up-information-and-hiding-it-for-years/

Lester Munson claims the NFL Security guys have been cleaning up this stuff for years, leading me to wonder of one of them is called "The Wolf".

[pbmax]

Original AP story:

The Associated Press @AP · 1h
CORRECTION: Source says he sent video of Rice punching fiancee to NFL 5 months ago (CORRECTS number of months): http://apne.ws/1umzDE2

[channtheman]

Maybe Goodell destroyed the tape? It wouldn't be the first time he did that.

[denverYooper]

Via Deadspin a quote from the AP story:



That is pretty dead to rights. However, there is even more terrible news on the horizon. If the NFL HAD the tape, then either someone caught wind that they weren't supposed to have it (and buried it, never mentioned again) OR the NFL took steps to make sure it never got out.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/10/espn-legal-analyst-nfl-security-has-been-digging-up-information-and-hiding-it-for-years/

Lester Munson claims the NFL Security guys have been cleaning up this stuff for years, leading me to wonder of one of them is called "The Wolf".

If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the fucking car.

[Joemailman]

NFL has announced that Robert Mueller, former FBI Director, will be conducting an investigation. I think this probably means Goodell really hadn't seen the video. He wouldn't be hiring an FBI Director if he had. Still, Goodell isn't going to come out of this looking very good. I think he will survive though.

[George Cumby]

How anyone in this day and age thinks they can cover something up is beyond me. How the prosecutor had the video and didnt charge Rice is also beyond me.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The NFL is now checking to see if the AP story about receiving the video is correct. Priceless.

I think Goodell is screwed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

NFL has announced that Robert Mueller, former FBI Director, will be conducting an investigation. I think this probably means Goodell really hadn't seen the video. He wouldn't be hiring an FBI Director if he had. Still, Goodell isn't going to come out of this looking very good. I think he will survive though.

I agree with all but your last sentence.

[Rastak]

from the other thread:



In partial answer to Rastak's questions earlier about whether the Casino could turn over the tape to the NFL: http://deadspin.com/goodell-was-wrong-when-he-said-casino-couldnt-have-give-1633218945?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


I was referencing the cops turning over evidence to an employer, not the casino. Think about it, you get arrested and your employer orders up all the evidence from the cops with a phone call....and they actually send it to a private employer, really? Now if your employer goes and asks the casino, kind of a different thing.

In any event, this looks bad for the NFL and the police. Can I request evidence when I want? Who can ring up the cops and ask if they would kindly forward the evidence of a criminal investigation?

I'm not sure what the NFL's angle was here. Ole Roger is a law and order guy, why would he ignore it? If underlings hid it, why?

This is getting more interesting by the minute. The NFL's actions make no plausible sense.

PB, you got a theory? :drma:

[Rastak]

How anyone in this day and age thinks they can cover something up is beyond me. How the prosecutor had the video and didnt charge Rice is also beyond me.

He explained that. He said guidelines were either probation or diversionary program and he felt the program made more sense. Our justice system needs a slight overhaul.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He explained that. He said guidelines were either probation or diversionary program and he felt the program made more sense. Our justice system needs a slight overhaul.

I'm not sure this is a failure of the justice system. Just throwing people in jail isn't much of a solution for something like this, and the jails are full. It's not like more public shaming was needed. I'd say a rehabilitation program probably makes sense, especially if it is first offense.

The NFL obviously screwed up.

[Rastak]

From:
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2014/09/pressure_mounting_on_nfl_big_over_ray_rice_video



"The law enforcement 
official told the AP on condition of anonymity he had no further communication with any NFL employee and can’t confirm anyone watched the video. He said he was not 
authorized to release the video but wanted the NFL to have it while mulling Rice’s punishment."


That's wonderful. I know I sounds like I'm defending Ray Rice but I'm not. This police thing just blows me away first and foremost. An NFL coverup is a very close second.

[Guiness]

Via Deadspin a quote from the AP story:



That is pretty dead to rights. However, there is even more terrible news on the horizon. If the NFL HAD the tape, then either someone caught wind that they weren't supposed to have it (and buried it, never mentioned again) OR the NFL took steps to make sure it never got out.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/10/espn-legal-analyst-nfl-security-has-been-digging-up-information-and-hiding-it-for-years/

Lester Munson claims the NFL Security guys have been cleaning up this stuff for years, leading me to wonder of one of them is called "The Wolf".

"The Weasel" or "The Garbage Man" works too.

[wist43]

What's more disgusting to me than what Rice did, is the "... Sister Bertha Betterthanyou" reaction of Amerika, i.e. sinless, sanctimonious ninnies who inflate their self-worth by spouting politically correct platitudes and cruxifying others.

The reaction is out of proportion, the punishment and ridiculous non-stop public shaming, and the lifelong sentence are out of proportion. Not only has Ray Rice been given a life sentence, his wife and family have been harmed by you monsters far more than any harm that came from the original offense.

You have cut off his livliehood, you have cut off his funds - that does lifelong harm to his family. Their child, and the children they may have that haven't even been born yet are going to suffer - not b/c of the incident that their parents had, but b/c of the scarlett letter of shame that you politically correct bullies see nothing wrong with marking someone with for life.

Ray Rice is a kid... what is he?? 27 yrs old?? He fucked up, his fiance fucked up - by all accounts it was a 1-time incident - leave them alone to work it out and get their shit together!!!

What's even more of a shame - is that we now live in an Orwellian surveillance society, in which everyone is under 24/7 surveillance. GM recently announced that they were putting cameras in their cars - the cops can already turn on your Onstar and listen to your conversation, now they will be able to simply tune into the car-cam... it's disturbing and sick. Much more disturbing and sick than anything Ray Rice did!!

Amerika is seriously fucked up.

[QBME]

It seems to me that the NFL's real predicament does not lie in whether or not anybody saw the video. They knew exactly what happened, as it is in the complaint/summons issued by the DA back in February. It states clearly that Rice struck her with his hand, rendering her unconscious. Not quite as vicious a description as a sucker punch left hook, but still. The problem is the NFL decided that a knock out punch of a woman deserves a 2 game suspension - they thought 2 games is a very penal action in the high and mighty NFL. They totally underestimated the public opinion back lash when the video came out, and now have to squirm their way out of it.

Who knows what logic they used to come to that conclusion. Perhaps they monitored various boards and forums such as this one to gauge reaction and establish severity. Look at the initial posts in this thread, not much hue and cry going on. And besides, they are the high and mighty NFL that sponsors the "Pink Out" in the month October to support awareness of breast cancer, they love and respect women. Therein lies the real issue - how to justify the 2 games when they absolutely knew what happened. When it is all said and done, the video is inconsequential. The video now becomes the perfect distraction from the base issue of the NFL's original underestimation of the public perception of domestic violence. The video lets them begin the witch hunt. Someone is going to take a fall and I doubt it's Roger.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

What's more disgusting to me than what Rice did, is the "... Sister Bertha Betterthanyou" reaction of Amerika, i.e. sinless, sanctimonious ninnies who inflate their self-worth by spouting politically correct platitudes and cruxifying others.

The reaction is out of proportion, the punishment and ridiculous non-stop public shaming, and the lifelong sentence are out of proportion. Not only has Ray Rice been given a life sentence, his wife and family have been harmed by you monsters far more than any harm that came from the original offense.

You have cut off his livliehood, you have cut off his funds - that does lifelong harm to his family. Their child, and the children they may have that haven't even been born yet are going to suffer - not b/c of the incident that their parents had, but b/c of the scarlett letter of shame that you politically correct bullies see nothing wrong with marking someone with for life.

Ray Rice is a kid... what is he?? 27 yrs old?? He fucked up, his fiance fucked up - by all accounts it was a 1-time incident - leave them alone to work it out and get their shit together!!!

What's even more of a shame - is that we now live in an Orwellian surveillance society, in which everyone is under 24/7 surveillance. GM recently announced that they were putting cameras in their cars - the cops can already turn on your Onstar and listen to your conversation, now they will be able to simply tune into the car-cam... it's disturbing and sick. Much more disturbing and sick than anything Ray Rice did!!

Amerika is seriously fucked up.

I don't know. My opinion is the man did the crime, and now must do the time. Will the sensationalism and blood sucking press hurt him? Sure, but the same sensationalism and blood sucking press helped him get where is is/was today. But I am old and I fart a lot, what the hell do I know.

[pbmax]

From:
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2014/09/pressure_mounting_on_nfl_big_over_ray_rice_video



"The law enforcement 
official told the AP on condition of anonymity he had no further communication with any NFL employee and can’t confirm anyone watched the video. He said he was not 
authorized to release the video but wanted the NFL to have it while mulling Rice’s punishment."


That's wonderful. I know I sounds like I'm defending Ray Rice but I'm not. This police thing just blows me away first and foremost. An NFL coverup is a very close second.

That's why you hire ex-FBI guys to work your security. Even if its not kosher, they can get a look at things most people cannot. You should read that Big Lead piece describing Lester Munson talking to Dan LeBatard.

In answer to your previous question, police records are largely public and while you are not going to be able to get all the material of an ongoing investigation, like reporters, the NFL Security guys at least will be able to get a heads up about what is involved, even if they don't get the evidence handed to them in a bag. Your employer could eventually see it, just not as fast as NFL security.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/10/espn-legal-analyst-nfl-security-has-been-digging-up-information-and-hiding-it-for-years/

As for my theory, the best bet is that NFL Security had the tape, watched it and summarized it for Roger and Co. No one spoke about HAVING the tape, only being aware of the contents because its release wasn't authorized. They made a judgement it would not hurt Rice more and told the execs so. In this case, they were wrong.

[3irty1]

What's more disgusting to me than what Rice did, is the "... Sister Bertha Betterthanyou" reaction of Amerika, i.e. sinless, sanctimonious ninnies who inflate their self-worth by spouting politically correct platitudes and cruxifying others.

The reaction is out of proportion, the punishment and ridiculous non-stop public shaming, and the lifelong sentence are out of proportion. Not only has Ray Rice been given a life sentence, his wife and family have been harmed by you monsters far more than any harm that came from the original offense.

You have cut off his livliehood, you have cut off his funds - that does lifelong harm to his family. Their child, and the children they may have that haven't even been born yet are going to suffer - not b/c of the incident that their parents had, but b/c of the scarlett letter of shame that you politically correct bullies see nothing wrong with marking someone with for life.

Ray Rice is a kid... what is he?? 27 yrs old?? He fucked up, his fiance fucked up - by all accounts it was a 1-time incident - leave them alone to work it out and get their shit together!!!

What's even more of a shame - is that we now live in an Orwellian surveillance society, in which everyone is under 24/7 surveillance. GM recently announced that they were putting cameras in their cars - the cops can already turn on your Onstar and listen to your conversation, now they will be able to simply tune into the car-cam... it's disturbing and sick. Much more disturbing and sick than anything Ray Rice did!!

Amerika is seriously fucked up.

A lot of people agree with you about how self-righteousness is the worst but few have the stones to express it in a self-righteous rant. You sir are an artist.

[pbmax]

It seems to me that the NFL's real predicament does not lie in whether or not anybody saw the video. They knew exactly what happened, as it is in the complaint/summons issued by the DA back in February. It states clearly that Rice struck her with his hand, rendering her unconscious. Not quite as vicious a description as a sucker punch left hook, but still. The problem is the NFL decided that a knock out punch of a woman deserves a 2 game suspension - they thought 2 games is a very penal action in the high and mighty NFL. They totally underestimated the public opinion back lash when the video came out, and now have to squirm their way out of it.

Who knows what logic they used to come to that conclusion. Perhaps they monitored various boards and forums such as this one to gauge reaction and establish severity. Look at the initial posts in this thread, not much hue and cry going on. And besides, they are the high and mighty NFL that sponsors the "Pink Out" in the month October to support awareness of breast cancer, they love and respect women. Therein lies the real issue - how to justify the 2 games when they absolutely knew what happened. When it is all said and done, the video is inconsequential. The video now becomes the perfect distraction from the base issue of the NFL's original underestimation of the public perception of domestic violence. The video lets them begin the witch hunt. Someone is going to take a fall and I doubt it's Roger.

I think they were caught with their pants down because this has always worked in the past. 2 games is not unusual for this crime for the NFL.

This story covers the last few years of NFL and Law Enforcement response to domestic abuse by players: http://sidespin.kinja.com/roger-goodell-is-a-domestic-violence-enabler-who-must-b-1632385955/+chid

[QBME]

I think they were caught with their pants down because this has always worked in the past. 2 games is not unusual for this crime for the NFL.

This story covers the last few years of NFL and Law Enforcement response to domestic abuse by players: http://sidespin.kinja.com/roger-goodell-is-a-domestic-violence-enabler-who-must-b-1632385955/+chid

You seem to have distilled my discourse into a couple sentences. :)

Also an interesting point regarding the on-going occurences.

[wist43]

A lot of people agree with you about how self-righteousness is the worst but few have the stones to express it in a self-righteous rant. You sir are an artist.

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

[pbmax]

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

First, how about you stop calling people you disagree with nazis?

Second, how on earth does punching out a women in a CASINO fall under the umbrella of something only you and a few other people know about?

[denverYooper]

]It seems to me that the NFL's real predicament does not lie in whether or not anybody saw the video[/B]. They knew exactly what happened, as it is in the complaint/summons issued by the DA back in February. It states clearly that Rice struck her with his hand, rendering her unconscious. Not quite as vicious a description as a sucker punch left hook, but still. The problem is the NFL decided that a knock out punch of a woman deserves a 2 game suspension - they thought 2 games is a very penal action in the high and mighty NFL. They totally underestimated the public opinion back lash when the video came out, and now have to squirm their way out of it.

Who knows what logic they used to come to that conclusion. Perhaps they monitored various boards and forums such as this one to gauge reaction and establish severity. Look at the initial posts in this thread, not much hue and cry going on. And besides, they are the high and mighty NFL that sponsors the "Pink Out" in the month October to support awareness of breast cancer, they love and respect women. Therein lies the real issue - how to justify the 2 games when they absolutely knew what happened. When it is all said and done, the video is inconsequential. The video now becomes the perfect distraction from the base issue of the NFL's original underestimation of the public perception of domestic violence. The video lets them begin the witch hunt. Someone is going to take a fall and I doubt it's Roger.

I think the NFL's real predicament is that it has made a lot of enemies outside of HQ with the way it has dealt with media, deigning to hand out very carefully controlled crumbs of information, and often doing so with an air of haughty superiority. Well, now there is tangible evidence out there indicating that a particular absurdity handed down by the NFL in the name of "discipline", on a case that many seemed to feel merited at least as much punishment as a marijuana conviction, confirms what many have felt about the league's dealings with respect to personal conduct -- that it has been arbitrary at best and favorable to certain teams and owners at worst.

Now that there is some real evidence that the NFL screwed up, everyone is gleefully demanding their pound of flesh for every past grievance they've had with NFL HQ.

[Fosco33]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

I'm sick of even watching ESPN because it's turning into the 'Days of our NFLives'.

If some schmuck at NFL HQ hid the tape from Rodger - I'd have to guess it's the case for 'plausible deniability' - to me, a sign of weak culture/leadership. And if every punishment is warranted based on video... where's the actual morality/fairness. A crime isn't worse if it's on tape. It MAY be worse for public opinion and therefore the NFL makes a sacrificial lamb.

Imagine if we saw Josh Brent's actual crash (or slamming drinks before hand) instead of still photos. 10 games for killing a teammate! 'Lifetime' for hitting someone.

Bunch of hypocrites.

[3irty1]

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

You just claimed moral superiority to everyone else in America and went so far as to dehumanize them by calling them monsters and Nazis. You clearly don't have a clue what self-righteous means.

[wist43]

First, how about you stop calling people you disagree with nazis?

Second, how on earth does punching out a women in a CASINO fall under the umbrella of something only you and a few other people know about?

I find it amazing that anyone would just blithely accept living in a surveillance society - it's just mind numbing that Amerikans have come accept living in an Orwellian world, and not only see nothing wrong with it, they celebrate it. Truly amazing how government indoctrination can so easily capture the minds of people.

I'm not defending what Rice did... and the fact that it was very public, and the NFL is very high profile - warrants some sanction from his employer for the sake of PR; but what is being done is typical of the pack mentality that accompanies all things PC. No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

Carry on with your "2 Minutes Hate"... you had best rage on with enthusiasm, lest the authorities identify you as lacking conviction - you could get sent for "reeducation" - now repeat, "2+2=5, 2+2=5, 2+2=5..."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4zYlOU7Fpk

[Striker]

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

Yes, "we" have made him a beggar now. I sure as hell feel bad for him and the $15 million guaranteed money he received from the money he made as a signing bonus in 2012, plus the $7 million he made as a bonus, the $3 million he made in base salary, and the $3 million he made under his rookie deal.

I'm kind of horrified that you think domestic violence falls under the purview of "political correctness".

The other thing is when you're a professional athlete with any sort of celebrity you probably should realize that anything you do, especially in public with any type of cameras present, really loses any sense of privacy.

[Striker]

I find it amazing that anyone would just blithely accept living in a surveillance society - it's just mind numbing that Amerikans have come accept living in an Orwellian world, and not only see nothing wrong with it, they celebrate it. Truly amazing how government indoctrination can so easily capture the minds of people.

I'm not defending what Rice did... and the fact that it was very public, and the NFL is very high profile - warrants some sanction from his employer for the sake of PR; but what is being done is typical of the pack mentality that accompanies all things PC. No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

Carry on with your "2 Minutes Hate"... you had best rage on with enthusiasm, lest the authorities identify you as lacking conviction - you could get sent for "reeducation" - now repeat, "2+2=5, 2+2=5, 2+2=5..."

It's a casino. There is going to be surveillance everywhere.

BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING CASINO.

This is not at all the same thing as having cameras in their homes, or in their cars, etc.

You really are going off the reservation with this one. Holy cow.

[wist43]

You just claimed moral superiority to everyone else in America and went so far as to dehumanize them by calling them monsters and Nazis. You clearly don't have a clue what self-righteous means.

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

[wist43]

Yes, "we" have made him a beggar now. I sure as hell feel bad for him and the $15 million guaranteed money he received from the money he made as a signing bonus in 2012, plus the $7 million he made as a bonus, the $3 million he made in base salary, and the $3 million he made under his rookie deal.

I'm kind of horrified that you think domestic violence falls under the purview of "political correctness".

The other thing is when you're a professional athlete with any sort of celebrity you probably should realize that anything you do, especially in public with any type of cameras present, really loses any sense of privacy.

Again, I'm not defending Ray Rice or his actions - I'm saying let the man and his wife work out their problems on their own. Let him pay his penalty thru the judicial system, and have some perspective with respect to his livlihood and what that means for his family.

You are harming his wife all over again, and you are harming his family. Leave them alone, and let them heal and move forward with their lives - it is mind-boggling that this view is considered heresy.

[pbmax]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

I'm sick of even watching ESPN because it's turning into the 'Days of our NFLives'.

If some schmuck at NFL HQ hid the tape from Rodger - I'd have to guess it's the case for 'plausible deniability' - to me, a sign of weak culture/leadership. And if every punishment is warranted based on video... where's the actual morality/fairness. A crime isn't worse if it's on tape. It MAY be worse for public opinion and therefore the NFL makes a sacrificial lamb.

Imagine if we saw Josh Brent's actual crash (or slamming drinks before hand) instead of still photos. 10 games for killing a teammate! 'Lifetime' for hitting someone.

Bunch of hypocrites.

Brent might be a bad example, though video might have affected his criminal prosecution. He was probably punished according to the Drug and Alcohol Policy by the NFL and it did not have options under than policy, its controlled by the CBA.

Which is precisely why the Personal Conduct Policy has backfired so tremendously in Rice's case. Because Roger is judge, jury and executioner he has virtually unlimited discretion. And almost no one to back him up except by personal testimonial. The Policy is unpopular with the players so they won't help. So when his 2 game decree was met with near universal derision, he immediately began to backtrack.

Remember, the NFL is always looking for new revenue streams and women are one demo they are targeting. The reason the owners like Rogers is that he has been helping increase revenue by leaps and bounds. This incident is a threat to that. Pink clothes and all.

So while Roger is in retreat, they are vulnerable to other revelations or bad PR. When the tape leaks, they are in a full fledged panic. Yes they are hypocrites, but they are hypocrites because this was never about justice, it was about potential football revenue.

Had Goodell experience outside of football, or had he listened to Tagliabue's critique, he would have a similar system to Personal Conduct that they had for Drugs and Alcohol. He would have had a system to rely on and back him up, plus arbitration or access to courts. Retreat wouldn't have been necessary, They could have changed the policy to issue harsher suspensions to satisfy critics and been done with it.

[Striker]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

Because if there are two things that are equitable it's this and the Holocaust.

[pbmax]

No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.



I find your definition of concern for his family quite flawed. Ignoring it, sweeping it under the rug because its private business does nothing to help.

Does it need to be on the news? No. Did it need to be made public and the police involved? Yes.

[3irty1]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

So you're a benevolent martyr for standing up to your moral inferiors by calling them out for the monsters they are, I'm one of them for thinking you're a hypocrite, and anyone else is weak and corrupt for not joining you?

[pbmax]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

I'm sorry, but is Ray Rice currently even detained? Could this comparison be any less apt?

There is a significant difference between condemnation of an actual act by an individual and incarceration without cause.

[Striker]

Again, I'm not defending Ray Rice or his actions - I'm saying let the man and his wife work out their problems on their own. Let him pay his penalty thru the judicial system, and have some perspective with respect to his livlihood and what that means for his family.

You are harming his wife all over again, and you are harming his family. Leave them alone, and let them heal and move forward with their lives - it is mind-boggling that this view is considered heresy.

Except as we've seen the judicial system is willing to cut a deal for many reasons (fame, lack of a victim testimonial, etc) but it's sadly no different across many domestic violence cases (and other crimes as well). In this case, he has to submit to counseling and then he's done.

I don't think many people's changed their mind on this case after the video leaked. Those that thought the punishment was too light the first time still thought the punishment was too light.

Not only that, but if the story is true that the NFL and/or the Ravens hadn't seen the video until it was leaked, then they also have every right as employers to terminate him if they see fit.

[Fosco33]

Brent might be a bad example, though video might have affected his criminal prosecution. He was probably punished according to the Drug and Alcohol Policy by the NFL and it did not have options under than policy, its controlled by the CBA.

Which is precisely why the Personal Conduct Policy has backfired so tremendously in Rice's case. Because Roger is judge, jury and executioner he has virtually unlimited discretion. And almost no one to back him up except by personal testimonial. The Policy is unpopular with the players so they won't help. So when his 2 game decree was met with near universal derision, he immediately began to backtrack.

Remember, the NFL is always looking for new revenue streams and women are one demo they are targeting. The reason the owners like Rogers is that he has been helping increase revenue by leaps and bounds. This incident is a threat to that. Pink clothes and all.

So while Roger is in retreat, they are vulnerable to other revelations or bad PR. When the tape leaks, they are in a full fledged panic. Yes they are hypocrites, but they are hypocrites because this was never about justice, it was about potential football revenue.

Had Goodell experience outside of football, or had he listened to Tagliabue's critique, he would have a similar system to Personal Conduct that they had for Drugs and Alcohol. He would have had a system to rely on and back him up, plus arbitration or access to courts. Retreat wouldn't have been necessary, They could have changed the policy to issue harsher suspensions to satisfy critics and been done with it.

Totally agree. With his conduct policy, he's now creating a 'moral standard' by measuring games suspended.

2 games for a hit to a head in a game designed to hit an opponent can now be compared to hitting your wife/gfriend/etc, raping a girl at a club, or ranting on the league via social media

What's he to do about Ray McDonald? (jeez, I'm not sure I'd draft anymore Rays... Lewis, Rice, McDonald).

[pbmax]

The video leaking did change things, but its not a simple two lane street of hypocrisy. Its a eight lane divided highway.

1. In his CBS interview, Roger denied that they had to see the video to understand what Rice and Palmer meant when they said (and the police report said) he struck her and knocked her down with his left hand. He then went on immediately to describe the content of the tape as "clear, graphic and sickening" and THAT was the reason they took additional action. That is hypocrisy #1, but if you believe that is the actual reason, I have a bridge to sell you. Its also an unforced error. Roger admitted they erred in the punishment. He could have simply amended that to they ended the investigation too early rather than say the video made no difference.

Video: http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-roger-goodell-ray-rice-20140910-htmlstory.html

2. The new video is public. Sponsors were now going to get a new wave of heat as this dominated the news coverage for a couple of days. The target demo wasn't particularly happy with the event and punishment. Most of American cannot do anything about the prosecutor in NJ, they can be mad at the NFL and not buy pink product. Everyone wants this story buried and off the front page so the team and league do something drastic to take back the headlines. He's cut and suspended. Rice is sacrificed, because this is going to cost the NFL revenue and bad press.

3. The NFL's only possible public justification for more punishment is the video. Which they claim contained nothing new and that their initial investigation was thorough enough to make them aware of the events. So now your story relies on the thin thread that you knew was was in the video, but had never seen or possessed it. That's having your hypocrisy and eating it too, evidentially speaking.

4. Inevitably, given they had previously described the content of the elevator video to the press, the NFL would be revealed to have had the tape. But it had the tape informally, they were not supped to reveal they had possession or had seen it. Their current answer? If we have it, no one knew it, its under the desk, a temp signed for the package and we never watched it.

5. Voicemail tells us that not only was there possession, but that someone watched it. And now they are left to claim the right people weren't told OR everyone was lying.

6. The NFL will still maintain that the Personal Conduct Policy (and HGH perhaps) should still not be subject to review, due process and arbitration. Because the commissioner must protect the Shield. Speaking of which, remember the Saints? Didn't Roger tell them that ignorance of events in the building was no defense to the charges? How about it Roger, you going to let some underling take the fall?

[MadtownPacker]

Who would think a Brotha hittin a Sista would result in Crackas exploding.

[Rastak]

I think the NFL's real predicament is that it has made a lot of enemies outside of HQ with the way it has dealt with media, deigning to hand out very carefully controlled crumbs of information, and often doing so with an air of haughty superiority. Well, now there is tangible evidence out there indicating that a particular absurdity handed down by the NFL in the name of "discipline", on a case that many seemed to feel merited at least as much punishment as a marijuana conviction, confirms what many have felt about the league's dealings with respect to personal conduct -- that it has been arbitrary at best and favorable to certain teams and owners at worst.

Now that there is some real evidence that the NFL screwed up, everyone is gleefully demanding their pound of flesh for every past grievance they've had with NFL HQ.


I absolutely agree with your take....there is blood in the water and these sharks are starving.

[Rastak]

Who would think a Brotha hittin a Sista would result in Crackas exploding.


That true.......as a side note, I recognized that shot as very similar to the KO from Ali-Liston I.

[pbmax]

That true.......as a side note, I recognized that shot as very similar to the KO from Ali-Liston I.

Are you saying Palmer owed money to wise guys and took a dive?

[pbmax]

I absolutely agree with your take....there is blood in the water and these sharks are starving.

The only problem with Yoop's take is the those who have been burnt the most (NFL beat guys who reported on the video contents and have now been told no one ever saw it) are also completely dependent on the NFL continuing to hold them in their good graces.

That's not to say they might not be sharing notes with others on their staff.

Now if MLB joins the dog pile, then you know its personal.

[Harlan Huckleby]

crack up side of head = Mexican foreplay

[Patler]

Forget that it is the NFL. It's an employer. Just like your employer. Forget (for the moment) that it is domestic violence case. It's a violation of our criminal justice standards, like other violations, assault against anyone, drunk driving, whatever.

Under what situations should your employer have the right to gather evidence on their own, review it on their own, and determine "their" punishment for you on their own apart from the determination made by criminal justice system?

It's easy to say "Ban the guy for life!" when it is a rich athlete and he punched his fiancee. By all accounts I have seen, there have been no other incidents and Rice has been described as a model citizen until now. The NFL has banned him.

If you are a licensed professional or tradesman, should your license be suspended for life based on your first criminal transgression when it is not one such as larceny, etc. that impacts your suitability for your profession? If you are a guy, should you lose it for sucker punching another guy in a bar? A female you don't know in a bar? A female acquaintance with whom you have no relationship? Your wife? How about if it is between gay couples? What if it's a wife suckerpunching her husband? Another female? Should you lose your license for life?

I'm not condoning what Rice did, nor the right for the NFL to issue some punishment, but I think we need to consider the when, how and how much in the same manner as we would if it was any of us and our employers.

[QBME]

I think the NFL's real predicament is that it has made a lot of enemies outside of HQ with the way it has dealt with media, deigning to hand out very carefully controlled crumbs of information, and often doing so with an air of haughty superiority. Well, now there is tangible evidence out there indicating that a particular absurdity handed down by the NFL in the name of "discipline", on a case that many seemed to feel merited at least as much punishment as a marijuana conviction, confirms what many have felt about the league's dealings with respect to personal conduct -- that it has been arbitrary at best and favorable to certain teams and owners at worst.

Now that there is some real evidence that the NFL screwed up, everyone is gleefully demanding their pound of flesh for every past grievance they've had with NFL HQ.


An interesting take. However, the NFL has appointed an "Independent Investigator" to get to the bottom of this situation - Robert Mueller III. Very prestigious. And just how independent is this guy?

"Mueller, based in Washington, D.C., is a partner in the law firm of WilmerHale, which helped negotiate the NFL's Sunday Ticket package with DirecTV. The firm also has represented Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder, and several former members of the firm have taken positions with NFL teams."

Go get 'em Bobby!!

SOS

[Fosco33]

Forget that it is the NFL. It's an employer. Just like your employer. Forget (for the moment) that it is domestic violence case. It's a violation of our criminal justice standards, like other violations, assault against anyone, drunk driving, whatever.

Under what situations should your employer have the right to gather evidence on their own, review it on their own, and determine "their" punishment for you on their own apart from the determination made by criminal justice system?

It's easy to say "Ban the guy for life!" when it is a rich athlete and he punched his fiancee. By all accounts I have seen, there have been no other incidents and Rice has been described as a model citizen until now. The NFL has banned him.

If you are a licensed professional or tradesman, should your license be suspended for life based on your first criminal transgression when it is not one such as larceny, etc. that impacts your suitability for your profession? If you are a guy, should you lose it for sucker punching another guy in a bar? A female you don't know in a bar? A female acquaintance with whom you have no relationship? Your wife? How about if it is between gay couples? What if it's a wife suckerpunching her husband? Another female? Should you lose your license for life?

I'm not condoning what Rice did, nor the right for the NFL to issue some punishment, but I think we need to consider the when, how and how much in the same manner as we would if it was any of us and our employers.

Many tradespeople can be fired for drug use - some on the spot.

I know in my profession, they do a pretty thorough background check and ask individuals to respond to any possible transgressions.

Heck, I'm instituting an 'emotional intelligence' component to my current recruiting practice because I'm sick of dealing with unstable people.

You all should read an interesting case of a kindergarten teacher caught defacing a Walker booth a a local county fare... should she be fired/suspended? Can the school district do independent investigation? Regardless of political view - would you want your 5yr old being taught by someone with less than stellar character?

[Fosco33]

Yup - we don't like coverups... Penn State, Catholic Church, etc. The coverup is the bigger issue and their actions should have consequence.

[pbmax]

Forget that it is the NFL. It's an employer. Just like your employer. Forget (for the moment) that it is domestic violence case. It's a violation of our criminal justice standards, like other violations, assault against anyone, drunk driving, whatever.

Under what situations should your employer have the right to gather evidence on their own, review it on their own, and determine "their" punishment for you on their own apart from the determination made by criminal justice system?

It's easy to say "Ban the guy for life!" when it is a rich athlete and he punched his fiancee. By all accounts I have seen, there have been no other incidents and Rice has been described as a model citizen until now. The NFL has banned him.

If you are a licensed professional or tradesman, should your license be suspended for life based on your first criminal transgression when it is not one such as larceny, etc. that impacts your suitability for your profession? If you are a guy, should you lose it for sucker punching another guy in a bar? A female you don't know in a bar? A female acquaintance with whom you have no relationship? Your wife? How about if it is between gay couples? What if it's a wife suckerpunching her husband? Another female? Should you lose your license for life?

I'm not condoning what Rice did, nor the right for the NFL to issue some punishment, but I think we need to consider the when, how and how much in the same manner as we would if it was any of us and our employers.

So we asking if a plumbing company with 10 employees would be expected to behave the same way as a multi-billion dollar enterprise with 2,000 employees? Or vice-versa?

No one Googles their plumber. Few identify with the plumber. No one buys a shirt with the plumbers name on it (unless you are a hipster buying clothing at Goodwill). I have never participated in Fantasy Plumbing Leagues. EA Sports does not pay likeness rights to the plumbers of America.

If the plumbing company carries Trane products, very little notice is given to a criminal infraction by a plumber and even less notice attaches itself to Trane.

If Ray Rice's jersey or picture is on the NFL website, on a page sponsored by Trane, then that notoriety attachers itself to Trane much more easily. Especially if he appears on TV with Trane attached in some way.

The NFL doesn't sell a trade. It sells branding opportunities, chances for companies to attach their business to the reputation and popularity of the NFL, to increase visibility and profitability. If an act makes that transaction harder or less profitable, it affects the business model. Just look at the NBA and NFL a few years ago worried about their thug image.

If the plumber has run afoul of the law before in their life, I am still more interested in whether or not he can stop the leak. These concerns overlap if the plumber tends to steal from the homes he works in (or commits other crimes while there) or commits fraud. Because the interaction is personal, my list of concerns is very specific.

The affinity for the NFL is much more transient and tied to entertainment. Its therefore much more broad (more areas of concern), much less personal and ultimately more easily replaced. We have disagreed before about how fungible players are (especially short versus medium-long term) but the player is very dependent on his personal reputation. The plumber is dependent on his professional reputation.

That said, to answer the basic question, I think the newly announced guidelines, which Roger thew out after the video hit the airwaves, seem quite reasonable.

[Fritz]

So we asking if a plumbing company with 10 employees would be expected to behave the same way as a multi-billion dollar enterprise with 2,000 employees? Or vice-versa?

No one Googles their plumber. Few identify with the plumber. No one buys a shirt with the plumbers name on it (unless you are a hipster buying clothing at Goodwill). I have never participated in Fantasy Plumbing Leagues. EA Sports does not pay likeness rights to the plumbers of America.

If the plumbing company carries Trane products, very little notice is given to a criminal infraction by a plumber and even less notice attaches itself to Trane.

If Ray Rice's jersey or picture is on the NFL website, on a page sponsored by Trane, then that notoriety attachers itself to Trane much more easily. Especially if he appears on TV with Trane attached in some way.

The NFL doesn't sell a trade. It sells branding opportunities, chances for companies to attach their business to the reputation and popularity of the NFL, to increase visibility and profitability. If an act makes that transaction harder or less profitable, it affects the business model. Just look at the NBA and NFL a few years ago worried about their thug image.

If the plumber has run afoul of the law before in their life, I am still more interested in whether or not he can stop the leak. These concerns overlap if the plumber tends to steal from the homes he works in (or commits other crimes while there) or commits fraud. Because the interaction is personal, my list of concerns is very specific.

The affinity for the NFL is much more transient and tied to entertainment. Its therefore much more broad (more areas of concern), much less personal and ultimately more easily replaced. We have disagreed before about how fungible players are (especially short versus medium-long term) but the player is very dependent on his personal reputation. The plumber is dependent on his professional reputation.


The problem for me is that once you're okay with the NFL - a "brand" is ever there was one - being allowed to punish/fire players for acts that occur outside of the workplace because those acts damage the "brand," then you've opened the door to every single company to be able to control the private lives of employees and to fire those who don't knuckle under.

So if you own a plumbing company, and you've "branded" yourself as a family-oriented, good-citizen company, and one of your young plumbers goes and gets wasted and gets into a fight on Saturday night, you really can, under this line of thinking, fire the guy because he's damaging your "brand."

In that scenario there is no private life left. There is only a constant monitoring of one's life by others. One of the big mistakes many people make is in thinking it's "the government" that is doing all this. But that's only part of it. Private corporations (say, Google Earth) are recording where you live, are looking at your facebook page, are monitoring your tweets, and are ready to fire your ass if you don't act in an acceptable way.

I am a little surprised at how okay so many people are with having lost their right to a private life.

[pbmax]

The problem for me is that once you're okay with the NFL - a "brand" is ever there was one - being allowed to punish/fire players for acts that occur outside of the workplace because those acts damage the "brand," then you've opened the door to every single company to be able to control the private lives of employees and to fire those who don't knuckle under.

So if you own a plumbing company, and you've "branded" yourself as a family-oriented, good-citizen company, and one of your young plumbers goes and gets wasted and gets into a fight on Saturday night, you really can, under this line of thinking, fire the guy because he's damaging your "brand."

In that scenario there is no private life left. There is only a constant monitoring of one's life by others. One of the big mistakes many people make is in thinking it's "the government" that is doing all this. But that's only part of it. Private corporations (say, Google Earth) are recording where you live, are looking at your facebook page, are monitoring your tweets, and are ready to fire your ass if you don't act in an acceptable way.

I am a little surprised at how okay so many people are with having lost their right to a private life.

We'll, Fritz, unless you are lucky enough to work for a union, every at-will employee in the country is already under that threat. You can be terminated at any time for any reason. Unless they wish to deny you unemployment, they don't even need to show cause or have a suitable reason. Its entirely up to the employer (and employee-they can leave anytime as well). Like Rice, if the plumber is really good, the company will go to longer lengths to keep him around. If he stinks or is easily replaceable, he's going to be out of luck.

I don't think the branding argument works for the Plumbing Co because even if they are big, Trane isn't going to stop selling them parts and furnaces because an employee got into trouble.

A company I know well is currently considering using background checks when hiring because they have had two bad apples recently with bad work histories that weren't readily apparent with the normal screening procedures. Those background checks will include criminal histories if such exist, from publicly available databases. The NFL is just better (and has more resources) than most employers.

Criminal histories are not generally private information. The paper every day is full of the police log book from the night before.

[Rastak]

Are you saying Palmer owed money to wise guys and took a dive?


That was Ali-Liston II. The phantom punch. I firmly believe that short left in the first fight knocked him out.

[Striker]

The problem for me is that once you're okay with the NFL - a "brand" is ever there was one - being allowed to punish/fire players for acts that occur outside of the workplace because those acts damage the "brand," then you've opened the door to every single company to be able to control the private lives of employees and to fire those who don't knuckle under.

So if you own a plumbing company, and you've "branded" yourself as a family-oriented, good-citizen company, and one of your young plumbers goes and gets wasted and gets into a fight on Saturday night, you really can, under this line of thinking, fire the guy because he's damaging your "brand."

In that scenario there is no private life left. There is only a constant monitoring of one's life by others. One of the big mistakes many people make is in thinking it's "the government" that is doing all this. But that's only part of it. Private corporations (say, Google Earth) are recording where you live, are looking at your facebook page, are monitoring your tweets, and are ready to fire your ass if you don't act in an acceptable way.

I am a little surprised at how okay so many people are with having lost their right to a private life.

A lot of our rights to a private life are still there. However, in the social media age we live in, everyone has to be smart and careful with how they conduct themselves on the internet (when posting under your actual alias) and in public places. If you can't resist the urge to post inflammatory stuff on your public profile? Then operate under an alias or, better yet, make sure you lock down your privacy settings.

Or better yet, don't be an idiot.

"Hey, I'm going to smoke a joint, should I post that on my publicly accessible Facebook page?"

"I think my boss is a total fuckstick, should I post that opinion on Twitter?"

Case in point - > Link (http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/living/buzzfeed-social-media-fired/) and link (http://www.businessinsider.com/6-reasons-social-media-got-people-fired-2013-7).

[MadtownPacker]

Many of you stank honkies would be toast if your bosses contacted PackerRats!!

[wist43]

Except as we've seen the judicial system is willing to cut a deal for many reasons (fame, lack of a victim testimonial, etc) but it's sadly no different across many domestic violence cases (and other crimes as well). In this case, he has to submit to counseling and then he's done.

I don't think many people's changed their mind on this case after the video leaked. Those that thought the punishment was too light the first time still thought the punishment was too light.

Not only that, but if the story is true that the NFL and/or the Ravens hadn't seen the video until it was leaked, then they also have every right as employers to terminate him if they see fit.

The appropriate place to vent disagreement over the punishment he received from the ADA, is the peoples state representatives, the District Attorneys Office, and the Governor. Stoning and scarlett lettering went out a long time ago.

The only people involved here are Rice and his wife; and apparently she just wants all this shit to blow over; but of course "the people" won't leave it alone, and are determined to ruin Ray and Janay's lives.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Other examples of this idiocy spreading its ugliness - the San Francisco 49ers radio broadcaster was suspended for 2 games b/c he said something to the effect of, '... what was she thinking, backing her husband'?

Paul George, the Indian Pacers G, tweeted something to the effect, '... if only people took police abuse this seriously' - and Larry Bird brought fury against him and forced him to apologize. Maybe he said something I didn't see, but I certainly didn't see anything that he said worthy of any comment whatsoever...

What's going on here on a societal level is far more disturbing than anything Ray Rice did.

--------------------------------------------------------

On a personal note, my wife came home from work today and said a girl at her work was fired today b/c of something she posted on Facebook. She was on medical leave, for a knee injury, but posted pics of her attending a public event in which apparently didn't look injured. My wife tells me that this woman didn't have a good work record, but it was the Facebook post that broke the camel's back, and landed her on the unemployment line.

This social media shit is completely out of control... and it's b/c people can no longer control themselves and mind their own fucking business. You take care of you, and I'll take care of me... that used to be a staple of American citizenship - long since forgotten now I guess.

Everyone is everyone else's judge, and the walls have eyes and ears - my wife went on to say that there is a spy at their work who reports everyone for anything. Long time, good employees are now being hauled in front of HR, and it is causing severe morale problems at her workplace.

The PC bullies are doing far more damage to Janay Rice and to society than anything Ray Rice did. It's sick, and it needs to stop.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Many of you stank honkies would be toast if your bosses contacted PackerRats!!

Bosses or county relief.

Bosses may just be an email away, but so is ICE.

[wist43]

I remember reading an article about 20 years ago that talked about the popularity of "reality" shows in the U.K. and Europe - before that poison had spread here. The shows centered around the pack mentality of isolating the target, and then heaping abuse upon them as they were disgraced off the show.

The article talked about the possible societal consequences of such behavior and of such a worldview - that it would lead to a loss of perspective and diminishment of socially appropriate behavior for those that became engrossed is such nonsense.

Of course there was no vision of what "social media" would become - but with our society now awash with morons - that article is certainly proving to be prophetic.

[Rutnstrut]

So players can rape, do drugs, be involved in shootings etc... But the NFL and the public are outraged at someone for a domestic spat. Now the whole deal over when the NFL had possession of the video. Give me a fucking break, it's not like this is the first thing the NFL has ever covered up.

[wist43]

So players can rape, do drugs, be involved in shootings etc... But the NFL and the public are outraged at someone for a domestic spat. Now the whole deal over when the NFL had possession of the video. Give me a fucking break, it's not like this is the first thing the NFL has ever covered up.

Remember "The White House"??

[gbgary]

http://youtu.be/cVJbX2sb2WY

[pbmax]

The only people involved here are Rice and his wife; and apparently she just wants all this shit to blow over; but of course "the people" won't leave it alone, and are determined to ruin Ray and Janay's lives.

He has earned millions of dollars from his career. She is in no trouble. This is your definition of a ruined life? Do you realize how much actual suffering you are minimizing by using that adjective to describe a fabulously wealthy man? That he is denied, temporarily, employment in one business because he publicly embarrassed himself and his employer.

BTW, many Ravens fans are backing Rice. So I don't think his career is done yet.



This social media shit is completely out of control... and it's b/c people can no longer control themselves and mind their own fucking business. You take care of you, and I'll take care of me... that used to be a staple of American citizenship - long since forgotten now I guess.

This is actually nothing new and has little to do with social media. Someone I know very well was followed for a week after a car accident by an investigator for an insurance company to gather evidence against any claims for injury that might eventually occur. Social media didn't invent people trying to save their business money. Its just another window to peek in.

[Patler]

Many tradespeople can be fired for drug use - some on the spot.

I know in my profession, they do a pretty thorough background check and ask individuals to respond to any possible transgressions.

Heck, I'm instituting an 'emotional intelligence' component to my current recruiting practice because I'm sick of dealing with unstable people.

You all should read an interesting case of a kindergarten teacher caught defacing a Walker booth a a local county fare... should she be fired/suspended? Can the school district do independent investigation? Regardless of political view - would you want your 5yr old being taught by someone with less than stellar character?

But now you are mixing in transgressions that impact the ability of the individual to perform their job. In those situations, of course the person should lose their job. I already acknowledged that when I advanced the questions. A lawyer or accountant who embezzles money will lose their license because their dishonesty calls into question whether or not they can do their job honestly. That's not the situation with Rice, nor what I was questioning.

[Patler]

It kind of makes me sick to my stomach reading Ray Lewis' attempt to contrast his situation and Rice's:


"There is no comparison. This is nothing about me, personally, me speaking with the owner of the Ravens today, Steve Biscotti, just moments ago," Lewis said. "And just listening to the reason why Ray Rice will never play for the Ravens again, he put his daughter — he put anybody that's connected to him that's a female — he put them in that position. When you do that you have to take a step back. When you're an owner and anybody who walks in the room and you see that type of evidence that you haven't seen or heard before ...

“One thing Steve made very clear: there is no comparison of me and Ray Rice. It's night and day. It's night and day of anything we've ever been through and that's why both situations are totally different.”

In another one I read he kept harping on the fact that it was someones daughter. someone's sister; and if anyone did that to his daughter or sister there would be trouble. Well, what about it being someones son or brother, and the fact that his life was taken?? Lewis was accepted back with open arms.

[wist43]

He has earned millions of dollars from his career. She is in no trouble. This is your definition of a ruined life? Do you realize how much actual suffering you are minimizing by using that adjective to describe a fabulously wealthy man? That he is denied, temporarily, employment in one business because he publicly embarrassed himself and his employer.

BTW, many Ravens fans are backing Rice. So I don't think his career is done yet.




This is actually nothing new and has little to do with social media. Someone I know very well was followed for a week after a car accident by an investigator for an insurance company to gather evidence against any claims for injury that might eventually occur. Social media didn't invent people trying to save their business money. Its just another window to peek in.

So Maximus Sanctimonious has decreed that Mr. Rice has made "enough", and that his and his family's needs, wants, and desires are sufficiently fulfilled that they must never be allowed to work again... that about right??

I feel blessed to have finally found a man without sin. A man so grounded in wisdom and insight that such a decree can only be deemed beyond reproach - as the man is surely above reproach.

All hail Maximus :bow:

[pbmax]

So Maximus Sanctimonious has decreed that Mr. Rice has made "enough", and that his and his family's needs, wants, and desires are sufficiently fulfilled that they must never be allowed to work again... that about right??

I feel blessed to have finally found a man without sin. A man so grounded in wisdom and insight that such a decree can only be deemed beyond reproach - as the man is surely above reproach.

All hail Maximus :bow:

Quit being so defensive. There is a lot of distance between ruined, fabulously wealthy and enough.

[Fosco33]

But now you are mixing in transgressions that impact the ability of the individual to perform their job. In those situations, of course the person should lose their job. I already acknowledged that when I advanced the questions. A lawyer or accountant who embezzles money will lose their license because their dishonesty calls into question whether or not they can do their job honestly. That's not the situation with Rice, nor what I was questioning.

Not entirely. I could easily be fired for a DUI. Or things that are posted on social media. And trust me- my job has nothing to do with any of that. It's a professional service industry.

[pbmax]

Some more thoughts on the pattern of domestic abuse:

The Patterns: http://deadspin.com/the-only-thing-unusual-about-ray-and-janay-rice-is-that-1633583402

Blaming themselves or recanting the original charge: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21840635 (link from above story)

I can't find a decent summary of the last point I want to make, so I'll paraphrase and link to the source. When Goodell met with the combatants before deciding discipline, he presumably wanted to hear Janay Palmer's side of the story. He did it with Ray Rice in the room. Also present were Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome, Ravens club president Dick Cass plus Jeff Pash and Adolpho Birch of the league.

Does anyone see a problem with that lineup? Everyone has a vested interest in the financial success of the meeting. Only one person has a truly vested interest in the victim's health. And that person is conflicted at best, compromised as worst. And sitting in the same room with the abuser when speaking to his bosses.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/25/ray-rice-nfl-suspension-ravens/

Goodell should be sanctioned in some way, but not because he doesn't understand domestic abuse or levies minimal sanctions against it. He shouldn't be fired because some NFL Security lackey made him out to be a liar about the tape. Not should he be fired for apparently not asking how NFL Security got a detailed description of the elevator tape without possessing it, something he claims he thought was illegal. Not because he backed himself and the League into a corner by having a pot offense go for a year and a domestic abuse situation go for 2 games.

He should be sanctioned because he is dumb enough to think he knows enough to be judge and jury for the Personal Conduct Policy. Anyone with an ounce of self-awareness would know how big a job that is, how much information they don't have and would look to create a functional structure to guard against being a complete schmuck.

[Rastak]

It kind of makes me sick to my stomach reading Ray Lewis' attempt to contrast his situation and Rice's:



In another one I read he kept harping on the fact that it was someones daughter. someone's sister; and if anyone did that to his daughter or sister there would be trouble. Well, what about it being someones son or brother, and the fact that his life was taken?? Lewis was accepted back with open arms.


With all due respect, and I do respect your takes. Ray Lewis killed no one. I watched that trial and he wasn't remotely connected. There is no way he killed those guys. No way.


Now maybe you have a point as it relates to his lack of candor about the two thugs in his posse that killed those guys, and the fact they were aquitted. I guess if that's your point, perhaps I agree after all. He certainly didn't spill his guts even if he wasn't involved.

[Patler]

Not entirely. I could easily be fired for a DUI. Or things that are posted on social media. And trust me- my job has nothing to do with any of that. It's a professional service industry.

The question is SHOULD you be fired for acts in your personal life unrelated to your job?

[Patler]

With all due respect, and I do respect your takes. Ray Lewis killed no one. I watched that trial and he wasn't remotely connected. There is no way he killed those guys. No way.


Now maybe you have a point as it relates to his lack of candor about the two thugs in his posse that killed those guys, and the fact they were aquitted. I guess if that's your point, perhaps I agree after all. He certainly didn't spill his guts even if he wasn't involved.

Not remotely connected??? Where did his white suit go?

[Rastak]

Not remotely connected??? Where did his white suit go?


There was absolutely no evidence against him. That asshat covered it up though. He shoved them into the limo and tried to hush it all.


Look, courttv is a cool thing and hearing all the testimony is really interesting. He came off as only concerned with his image after two guys were murdered by two thugs in his group.

[George Cumby]

How did his white suit get blood on it? Because he was standing a discrete 30' away?

[sharpe1027]

Forget that it is the NFL. It's an employer. Just like your employer. Forget (for the moment) that it is domestic violence case. It's a violation of our criminal justice standards, like other violations, assault against anyone, drunk driving, whatever.

Under what situations should your employer have the right to gather evidence on their own, review it on their own, and determine "their" punishment for you on their own apart from the determination made by criminal justice system?

It's easy to say "Ban the guy for life!" when it is a rich athlete and he punched his fiancee. By all accounts I have seen, there have been no other incidents and Rice has been described as a model citizen until now. The NFL has banned him.

If you are a licensed professional or tradesman, should your license be suspended for life based on your first criminal transgression when it is not one such as larceny, etc. that impacts your suitability for your profession? If you are a guy, should you lose it for sucker punching another guy in a bar? A female you don't know in a bar? A female acquaintance with whom you have no relationship? Your wife? How about if it is between gay couples? What if it's a wife suckerpunching her husband? Another female? Should you lose your license for life?

I'm not condoning what Rice did, nor the right for the NFL to issue some punishment, but I think we need to consider the when, how and how much in the same manner as we would if it was any of us and our employers.
I buy the NFL product. I have a right to voice my opinion on what they should be doing. They don't have to listen, but the NFL would be stupid to alienate its customers. Other employers are no different. I don't understand your point. It has nothing to do with criminal justice system our professional licenses.

[Patler]

I buy the NFL product. I have a right to voice my opinion on what they should be doing. They don't have to listen, but the NFL would be stupid to alienate its customers. Other employers are no different. I don't understand your point. It has nothing to do with criminal justice system our professional licenses.

So the masses decide the rights of the individual?

The NFL has banned Rice, taken away his ability to play professional football in this country. It's no different than suspending a licensed professional's license, rendering him unable to practice his/her profession.

[sharpe1027]

So the masses decide the rights of the individual?

The NFL has banned Rice, taken away his ability to play professional football in this country. It's no different than suspending a licensed professional's license, rendering him unable to practice his/her profession.

No different? You mean there are some similarities? Let's not overstate things. If your point is that NFL is a monopoly and therefore not comparable to most employers, that's a bit different than what you were saying above about any employers rights.

Your issue seems to be whether the NFL has the right to do what they did. What gives Rice the right to work for the NFL? If they don't want him, should they be forced to hire him?

[Patler]

No different? You mean there are some similarities? Let's not overstate things. If your point is that NFL is a monopoly and therefore not comparable to most employers, that's a bit different than what you were saying above about any employers rights.

Your issue seems to be whether the NFL has the right to do what they did. What gives Rice the right to work for the NFL? If they don't want him, should they be forced to hire him?

He was already hired.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The problem is that you're comparing the NFL to regular jobs. It's an apple and orange comparison. It's well known that the NFL is completely about image and money, so therefore they base their decisions on those items. What an employee does there is completely magnified to the nth degree due to who they work for. It comes with the territory and the players and other employees know it. The same rules don't apply to the regular world as they do for the NFL due to their high profile. I think the comparison you're trying to do is flawed on a basic level. I see what you're looking to accomplish, but I don't think it works.

[3irty1]

There is no sense in pretending the NFL is anything resembling a normal employer. A normal "career" in the NFL is 3 years long and ends abruptly before delivering pizzas forever. The nature of the industry is such that players must always be prepared to never play football again. Before the incident, the league was unquestionably better with Rice in it. His body didn't get injured but his image did and the result is exactly the same, the league thinks it no longer benefits from Rice's contributions. Seeing the NFL's action as a punishment is inaccurate. Ray Rice isn't banned because he hit his lady, he's banned because a video was released to the public of him hitting his lady.

[Maxie the Taxi]

In all likelihood the standard NFL boilerplate contract contains a "morals clause" which is broad and which gives the NFL all kinds of power to have its way in matters like this. Rice voluntarily accepted the terms of his contract in exchange for millions in compensation. It's pretty cut and dried to me.

[Joemailman]

In all likelihood the standard NFL boilerplate contract contains a "morals clause" which is broad and which gives the NFL all kinds of power to have its way in matters like this. Rice voluntarily accepted the terms of his contract in exchange for millions in compensation. It's pretty cut and dried to me.

I think this is right. While the wisdom of allowing Goodell to make these decisions can certainly be questioned, the NFL certainly has the right to suspend a player for behavior they feel is detrimental to the image of the NFL.

[pbmax]

I think Patler is trying to ask a broader question: Should employers be able to terminate someone who has committed a transgression outside of work and work hours, regardless of industry or monopoly status?

I assume for the sake of my argument that the transgression in question does not impair the ability of the person to work (or be available to work) and does no harm (financial or PR) to the firm in question. So I am not considering the case of a cab driver booked on a DUI charge.

My answer is yes, they should, because absent specifically negotiated due process in a contract (personal services or Union), I am not sure such a matter can be adjudicated easily in a Court or arbitration hearing. But I am open to the argument that at will employment confers a greater advantage of information to the employer than to the employee.

[Patler]

It's so arbitrary with the NFL that it is starting to drive me crazy.
3irty1 hit the nail on the head. Rice isn't band because of doestic violence. He's banned because of a video. If there had been video, lots of Packers would have been banned over the years.

So domestic abuse in the privacy of your home might get you as short suspension. Domestic abuse in public gets you banned, but only if there is video.

[pbmax]

The League's letter to Rice giving him official word about his suspension says that that the additional sanction was because the video showed a substantially different version of events than had been portrayed in the meeting with Goodell, League officials and the team.

Which, going back to our six stages of hypocrisy list, means that League officials who viewed the video at the casino (and received and watched their own copy of the video) managed not to convey the actual events very accurately to their superiors, if at all. If that was true, you might think someone would face sanctions themselves for failing at their job. We'll probably have to wait until a Friday news dump in April to get word from Mueller's investigation on that.

[pbmax]

It's so arbitrary with the NFL that it is starting to drive me crazy.
3irty1 hit the nail on the head. Rice isn't band because of doestic violence. He's banned because of a video. If there had been video, lots of Packers would have been banned over the years.

So domestic abuse in the privacy of your home might get you as short suspension. Domestic abuse in public gets you banned, but only if there is video.

OK, but different levels of evidence exist in all cases of wrongdoing. And that affects verdicts and sentencing even for substantially the same act. Details of laws (there are often 5 levels of sexual assault on the books) and their corresponding sentences often depend on very fine grained reading of the available evidence.

So is that what disturbs you, or the fact that the League believed this was a "both sides are to blame and a slap isn't really a punch" incident that is domestic violence incident only in the technical sense?

Or is it my particular brand of exasperation, that Goodell seems to pick punishments out of a hat after reading USAToday?

[sharpe1027]

He was already hired.

Wrongly worded, but simply replace hired with employ. What duty does a business have to continue to employ someone?

[sharpe1027]

It's so arbitrary with the NFL that it is starting to drive me crazy.
3irty1 hit the nail on the head. Rice isn't band because of doestic violence. He's banned because of a video. If there had been video, lots of Packers would have been banned over the years.

So domestic abuse in the privacy of your home might get you as short suspension. Domestic abuse in public gets you banned, but only if there is video.

Yes. This is true. Like it or hate it, the level of certainty in the culpability, as well as the public perception seems to be a large factor. That being said, this is not a criminal proceeding where it is mostly a yes or no verdict. Here, the punishment can be adjusted based upon the certainty culpability as well as on other factors, such as the possible effect on the bottom line of the league ($$). Is it really so different than any other business?

[Patler]

Wrongly worded, but simply replace hired with employ. What duty does a business have to continue to employ someone?

No absolute duty, for sure; but the real question is how arbitrary and unilateral they can be in deciding not to.

[sharpe1027]

No absolute duty, for sure; but the real question is how arbitrary and unilateral they can be in deciding not to.

Legally, or to satisfy an arbitrary person's liking?

[Patler]

The part that bothers me most is the response to mob mentality. Nothing changed from the original suspension to his total ban, other than the video. They knew it was a case of domestic violence, the video didn't change that. But, public perception changed, so then the NFL changes a ruling they had already made.

Sooner or later team will conduct surveys to see who the fans want to be the starters. After all, it's better for the league to give the fans the players they want to see.

[Fritz]

I have to agree with Patler. The NFL as an entertainment "brand" has so overwhelmingly passed the NFL as a football league that it's getting harder and harder to find the actual football. Storylines of broadcasts are about individuals, not teams. Decisions are being made based on profit, and it's not that that's intrinsically bad - it's that profit is not tied to individual teams and their success (i.e. winning), it's now tied to the league as an entity, and that means an emphasis on individual stories, not on the games.

[sharpe1027]

They did that with the pro bowl and nobody watches anymore.

If we are talking about an ideal way to handle this stuff it is one thing. I agree with most of Patler's points on what the NFL did wrong. If, however, we are talking about what the NFL had the right to do (even if less than ideal) that's a whole different ball of wax.

[Fritz]

The Pro Bowl is not a good example because there's nothing at stake. A storyline has to be created - the league has to give the game meaning.

Does your employer have the right to conduct its own investigation of something you've been accused to doing outside of work?

[Harlan Huckleby]

The part that bothers me most is the response to mob mentality. Nothing changed from the original suspension to his total ban, other than the video.

Many people are saying this.
I heard somebody in Ravens organization, perhaps the owner, give a very plausible explanation of what changed. He wanted to believe that something less brutal happened. He thought the woman was drunk, banged her head against the wall.

This sounds right to me. People are very good at believing what they badly hope is true. The video was a dose of reality and changed everything.

[3irty1]

You'd like to think these were data-driven decisions from the league but it certainly doesn't seem that way. Seems like Goodell renders judgment base on his horoscope that day.

Rice should just do and say everything Vick said to get reinstated replacing the word "dogs" with "women." If you can manipulate the media to get kicked out you can manipulate them to get back in.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I have to agree with Patler. The NFL as an entertainment "brand" has so overwhelmingly passed the NFL as a football league that it's getting harder and harder to find the actual football. Storylines of broadcasts are about individuals, not teams.

You and Patler need sensitivity training. Get more in touch with your feelings, soften your hearts. Become fully human.

BTW, I hate the NFL for sort-of the opposite reason: too much player movement. Just when I start to really like an individual player, like James Jones, he was gone. I hated that minnie-me center, Scott Wells. Then I warmed up to him and he left. I agree with Seinfeld's old joke that the only thing that stays constant with pro sports are the uniforms, so we're cheering for laundry.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rice should just do and say everything Vick said to get reinstated replacing the word "dogs" with "women." If you can manipulate the media to get kicked out you can manipulate them to get back in.

I believe in 2nd and 3rd chances. I have no problem with Rice & Vick seeking redemption, I hope it is sincere.

Vick was a high profile QB with a lot of flash. Rice is a generic RB. Vick needed money, Rice is set. I don't see Rice coming back.

[George Cumby]

Protect the Shield!

[pbmax]

The part that bothers me most is the response to mob mentality. Nothing changed from the original suspension to his total ban, other than the video. They knew it was a case of domestic violence, the video didn't change that. But, public perception changed, so then the NFL changes a ruling they had already made.

Sooner or later team will conduct surveys to see who the fans want to be the starters. After all, it's better for the league to give the fans the players they want to see.

The mob is outside the offices though and they have defied it before: rules changes being the significant one.

From this side of the interent, it looks like the public railroaded the NFL. From inside it might look different. Biscotti (as someone mentioned) and Goodell have both been quoted that they thought it was a slap. If the investigation is actually thorough, maybe we get an answer to whether that is plausible or not.

In either event, basing your discipline on role that the handrail played in knocking out the woman was a bad idea without video. If they handing a standing committee for player discipline, with policies and procedures, they might learn from this.

[sharpe1027]

The Pro Bowl is not a good example because there's nothing at stake. A storyline has to be created - the league has to give the game meaning.

Does your employer have the right to conduct its own investigation of something you've been accused to doing outside of work?

Yes.

[3irty1]

Now Jonathan Dwyer is done for the year after head butting his wife and breaking her nose.

What has gotten into NFL running backs???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw&t=0m10s

[Rastak]

Per PFT the Ravens knew all the details on Ray Rice right from the start. Word is they conducted an emergency damage control meeting tonight. More details to come. I should send them a thank you card for getting the media off my teams back as the sharks veer off to them so I can think about football this sunday.

[pbmax]

Yep. Ravens execs were briefed twice about the contents of the inside elevator video, including by Rice's criminal defense attorney. At nearly the same time, both the team and the League stopped trying to get the video.


Ultimately, on April 1, the Revel, under subpoena, provided Diamondstein with a copy, and he received the same copy from prosecutors on April 5. By phone, Diamondstein told Cass that the video was "f---ing horrible" and that it was clear "Ray knocked her the f--- out." The lawyer advised Cass that the video, if released, would amount to a public relations disaster for the Ravens and for his client.

Why did they stop?


In May, the company extended the naming rights and sponsorship agreement with the team for $60 million over 10 years. A source says the bank expressed concerns about the Rice matter to the Ravens after the first TMZ video had become public.

It's pretty damming. Its makes the Ravens look guilty of a cover up and the League/Goodell look like accessories or incompetent.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11551518/how-ray-rice-scandal-unfolded-baltimore-ravens-roger-goodell-nfl

[pbmax]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

At this juncture, Czaban's observation is both correct and has been explained.

The NFL had to overreact after it under reacted at the Raven's (and Rice and Wife's behest). The Ravens were worried about the M&T Bank sponsorship. They should have been more worried about possession of the tape and their cover up of their knowledge of it (they knew it wasn't only a slap gone horribly wrong).

If Goodell had any actual power, he would fine the team and suspend Raven's officials for covering up what they knew. He would fine his own NFL Security staff. And then he would reduce his salary or resign for getting so thoroughly played by amateurs. The Ravens got this over the League Office only because he hadn't seen the video.

The only question is whether Goodell participated or was just incompetent and happy to spout platitudes.

[Fritz]

Yes.

Wow. So essentially you're willing to give up any notion of personal freedom and privacy?

Orwell was clairvoyant.

[ThunderDan]

Wow. So essentially you're willing to give up any notion of personal freedom and privacy?

Orwell was clairvoyant.

I am a partner at our firm and we purposefully put a conduct code in our contracts. We want ourselves and our employees to represent our firm well in the community.

We wouldn't fire someone for most offenses but want to make sure we can if we have to.

Also, wisconsin is an at will employment state. We can fire anyone for any reason.

[Fritz]

I vehemently disagree with the way this country has gone in the direction of the loss of individual freedom, but I'm going to stop there.

I'd rather talk about what the hell is wrong with the Packer defense.

[Striker]

Ray Lewis on Ray Rice: “There are some things you can cover up…then there are some things you can’t”


Yep. He said that.

[pbmax]

Lying Liars Are Lying Again: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/13/kraft-reiterates-support-for-commissioner/


“I’m in his corner,” Kraft tells Jim Corbett of USA Today. “I’ve worked with him for 20 years. He’s hard working, a man of good character and morals. And he’s a solid citizen. I really believe that. He really is a man of integrity. He really has had the best interest of the league [at heart]. And I’ve seen it first-hand. He felt he made a mistake. He corrected it before anything came out.

Didn't almost the EXACT opposite happen, or am I misreading this?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/08/nfl-suspends-ray-rice-indefinitely/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/08/ravens-release-running-back-ray-rice-after-video-emerges/

[Cheesehead Craig]

Ray Rice has won his appeal and can now sign with any NFL team. Who's going to get him and for how much?

[mraynrand]

Protect Sam Shields!

FIFY

[woodbuck27]

Ray Rice has won his appeal and can now sign with any NFL team. Who's going to get him and for how much?

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reports that at this time there is no word on any other NFL Organizations expressing an interest in signing Ex Baltimore Raven RB Ray Rice.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Ray Rice has won his appeal and can now sign with any NFL team. Who's going to get him and for how much?

Belichick.

Hoody Genius is not afraid of the circus. He signs notorious players all the time. From Corey Dillion to Randy Moss to Tim Tebow to La-la Blount, so long as you got game and you're not indicted of murder, no reason you can't don the red, white and blue.

If the Packers shut down the Pats run game on Sunday, you can bet Rice will be the first person Belichick calls.

[red]

Its amazing that a guy who there is a video of him knocking out his wife, now looks like a victim because of how badly the NFL has fucked this up

FIRE GOODELL!!!!!!!!!!

[King Friday]

My guess is that no team will want to touch him this season, probably due to a behind closed doors demand by NFL brass to not even think about it. But he'll be on a roster come next season.

[pbmax]

HA!

It would be much funnier if someone hadn't been beaten to expose this point. Goodell understands leadership, policy construction and adherence as well as I understand the Poincaré conjecture and solution.

In other words, Roger Goodell is, in a very basic and fundamental way, unqualified for his job. Tagliabue nailed it, from a slightly different angle, that Goodell thinks he is a benevolent emperor but does not understand that even Caesar had limits to his power. The League is doing too well to be bothered by this much, but he is just a talking hairdo at this point.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2283109-credibility-gone-roger-goodell-faces-demise-by-his-own-pr-devices

Tags Take (goes back to Bountygate): http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/12/sports/football/tagliabue-vacates-saints-suspensions-in-bounty-case.html?pagewanted=all

[woodbuck27]

My guess is that no team will want to touch him this season, probably due to a behind closed doors demand by NFL brass to not even think about it. But he'll be on a roster come next season.

Ditto:

RB Ray Rice Born: January 22, 1987 (age 27), will run the ball in the NFL again unless he elects to retire.

[George Cumby]

Tags:

' He said that while Goodell had “correctly” set out to address events with the Saints in the broader context of current player safety concerns, he noted that when a “change in culture rests heavily on prohibitions, and discipline and sanctions that are seen as selective, ad hoc or inconsistent, then people in all industries are prone to react negatively — whether they be construction workers, police officers or football players.” He continued: “Rightly or wrongly, a sharp change in sanctions or discipline can often be seen as arbitrary and as an impediment rather than an instrument of change. That is what we see on the record here.” '

Apparently RG wasn't listening. What a shit show this whole thing is. Neither Tags nor Rozelle got mired in this BS, at least not to my recollection. Gooddell is a damn joke and a bad one at that.

[pbmax]

Tags:

' He said that while Goodell had “correctly” set out to address events with the Saints in the broader context of current player safety concerns, he noted that when a “change in culture rests heavily on prohibitions, and discipline and sanctions that are seen as selective, ad hoc or inconsistent, then people in all industries are prone to react negatively — whether they be construction workers, police officers or football players.” He continued: “Rightly or wrongly, a sharp change in sanctions or discipline can often be seen as arbitrary and as an impediment rather than an instrument of change. That is what we see on the record here.” '

Apparently RG wasn't listening. What a shit show this whole thing is. Neither Tags nor Rozelle got mired in this BS, at least not to my recollection. Gooddell is a damn joke and a bad one at that.

Tanier nicely dovetailed Rice (mostly) and Peterson's case to that Tagliabue point by noting that Goodell's MO has been to under-react and the respond to critics by overreacting. We (on this board) had previously called this governance by PR.

[George Cumby]

Tanier nicely dovetailed Rice (mostly) and Peterson's case to that Tagliabue point by noting that Goodell's MO has been to under-react and the respond to critics by overreacting. We (on this board) had previously called this governance by PR.

Im pretty confident that if it were governance by Packerrats, it would be more coherent, logical, consistent and competent than it currently is.

[Guiness]

Apparently RG wasn't listening. What a shit show this whole thing is. Neither Tags nor Rozelle got mired in this BS, at least not to my recollection. Gooddell is a damn joke and a bad one at that.

In RG's defense, this was uncharted ground for the NFL and he had to make it up as he went along. That's why there was no policy for this. In Tags and Rozelle's day, or even earlier in Goodell's tenure, it wouldn't have landed on the internet and attracted national attention, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it did happen and simply got swept under the carpet. Does anyone seriously think, say, Romanowski never decked a chick?

[pbmax]

In RG's defense, this was uncharted ground for the NFL and he had to make it up as he went along. That's why there was no policy for this. In Tags and Rozelle's day, or even earlier in Goodell's tenure, it wouldn't have landed on the internet and attracted national attention, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it did happen and simply got swept under the carpet. Does anyone seriously think, say, Romanowski never decked a chick?

I agree that the subject and the public reaction to it changed under their feet over time. But other corporations have been dealing with that for years, if not a decade or more. The NFL was clearly behind and had no sold policy to fall back on, only platitudes and a case by case approach.

And there were signs of trouble along the way. One man as judge and appeal needs to be beyond reproach and from simple DUI to DUI manslaughter to Roethlisberger's rape allegations, he has been all over the board and the players let the League know this.

The professionals in the League Office should have seen the trouble the Player Conduct Policy was going to cause (it was intended to deal with the problem with no having a Policy before it) by being so open ended. Compared to the NBA or the MLB, the NFL was woefully unprepared.

[mraynrand]

Goodell's MO has been to under-react and the respond to critics by overreacting. We (on this board) had previously called this governance by PR.

governance by Packerrats? You mean like mostly absentee and then arbitrary?

[mraynrand]

Im pretty confident that if it were governance by Packerrats, it would be more coherent, logical, consistent and competent than it currently is.

I see you beat me to it, but you still got it wrong.

[mraynrand]

In RG's defense, this was uncharted ground for the NFL and he had to make it up as he went along. That's why there was no policy for this. In Tags and Rozelle's day, or even earlier in Goodell's tenure, it wouldn't have landed on the internet and attracted national attention, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it did happen and simply got swept under the carpet. Does anyone seriously think, say, Romanowski never decked a chick?

society has changed in other ways as well. For example, rape now is defined to include saying 'no' or feeling bad about what happened anytime after the fact, up to four-five decades later (which would describe most marriages).

[NewsBruin]

Im pretty confident that if it were governance by Packerrats, it would be more coherent, logical, consistent and competent than it currently is.

Except when it's Skinbasket's week to be commish. At that point, Park Ave resembles an atomic testing ground.

[pbmax]

Except when it's Skinbasket's week to be commish. At that point, Park Ave resembles an atomic testing ground.

With dic pics.

[George Cumby]

Except when it's Skinbasket's week to be commish. At that point, Park Ave resembles an atomic testing ground.

I have no way to refute this.:-)