2014 Free Agency Rumors and or Speculation

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kind of funny. I was completely indifferent on Al Woods (backup journeyman), but Steeler fans seem to think he's a solid player. Check out the comments. He looks like a backup, but seems to be a really good backup and versatile.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/3/12/5501230/former-steelers-de-al-woods-reportedly-signs-deal-with-titans

[denverYooper]

2 years of Neal would have him and Perry hitting FA at the same time. Hopefully one distinguishes himself.

This.

[pbmax]

Neal was seen as upgrade to Matt O'Shaughnessy apparently. 40 Tweets after Neal announces return to Packers, Cards announce return of MattO to them.

[red]

and here we go again




Titans signed NT Al Woods.
Source: Jim Wyatt on Twitter
Mar 12 - 7:51 PM


for those keeping track, this is the third time today that the titans have signed woods. the other two reports were claimed to be false

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/12/report-al-woods-agrees-to-deal-with-titans/

[SMBASS]

and here we go again



for those keeping track, this is the third time today that the titans have signed woods. the other two reports were claimed to be false

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/12/report-al-woods-agrees-to-deal-with-titans/

I wonder if Woods gets compensated the cumulative amount of all three contracts he's supposedly signed or if he'll just have to pick and choose which one he decides to honor? Maybe Jim Wyatt, (Whoever the hell he is.) is just late to the party and didn't get the memo that the first two reports were bogus. You gotta love social media and the internet. The largest and fastest sources of disinformation in the history of mankind.

[mraynrand]

I wonder if Woods gets compensated the cumulative amount of all three contracts he's supposedly signed or if he'll just have to pick and choose which one he decides to honor? Maybe Jim Wyatt, (Whoever the hell he is.) is just late to the party and didn't get the memo that the first two reports were bogus. You gotta love social media and the internet. The largest and fastest sources of disinformation in the history of mankind.

Well, it is the Titans, so he should get all three - like concurrent sentences.

[pbmax]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 31s
CB Darrelle Revis and the New England Patriots have reached agreement on a one-year, $12 million deal, league sources told ESPN.

[red]

al woods deal, 2 years 5 million

[SMBASS]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 31s
CB Darrelle Revis and the New England Patriots have reached agreement on a one-year, $12 million deal, league sources told ESPN.

Well, that explains why he refused to restructure his contract or take a pay cut when the Bucs were trying to trade him. Evidently he just wanted to become unrestricted so that he could negotiate with whichever team he wanted. I don't remember for sure but I think he was originally scheduled to make around 16 million this year so he did reduce his demands.

[Bretsky]

And we know Trestman can "rebuilt" a defense how? Lovie's defense got them to the Super Bowl with Rex and he had a winning record against us. Only thing Lovie didn't know how to do was find a good offensive coordinator.


I wish Lovey was in Chicago; now they have a much better coach for that team and a dude who puts cutler in a position to succeed. They could not touch us his last few years

[bobblehead]

Really surprised TT signed Neal - surprised he signed anyone, lol...

Thought Neal would attract interest on the open market.

I like how Neal transitioned to OLB - but of course it doesn't do anything to help us improve. We were junk with Neal and Shields - both players I like - we're still going to be junk. The defense is completely hopeless.

Wist, its the offseason. Its time to speculate that the defense will be better and the Tea Party will triumph in November....don't be a buzzkill until training camp :)

[wist43]

Why do you guys want to sign defensive linemen??

We only play 2 at a time anyway, and we've got Boyd... all we need besides him is one more fat guy, and the rest of the fronts Capers uses would consist of Daniels and Jones. Surely TT can land a couple of slug footed fat guys in the 6/7th round??

Why spend any money on a position that really isn't expected to produce anything??

[bobblehead]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 31s
CB Darrelle Revis and the New England Patriots have reached agreement on a one-year, $12 million deal, league sources told ESPN.

I didn't know you could franchise tag another teams FA.

[wist43]

Wist, its the offseason. Its time to speculate that the defense will be better and the Tea Party will triumph in November....don't be a buzzkill until training camp :)

The defense better?? lol...

Well, burn me once, twice, 10 times... I may be slow on the uptake, but I think I've got it figured out - Capers is dweeble-brained, but has pics of TT diddling the towel boy... that's the only explaination for why he's still there.

[red]

NOT SO FAST ON REVIS

his business manager now said their is no deal yet with the pats

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/12/business-manager-claims-no-agreement-has-been-reached-between-pats-and-revis/

its been a weird day, my head hurts

[mraynrand]

Why do you guys want to sign defensive linemen??

We only play 2 at a time anyway... :beat::beat::beat:

[Bretsky]

Major Wright of the Bears is still out there. Maybe we trade each other's rejects.
Major Wright was drafted right after TT traded up to take Burnett; maybe we're destined to have both !

[Joemailman]

Major Wright of the Bears is still out there. Maybe we trade each other's rejects.
Major Wright was drafted right after TT traded up to take Burnett; maybe we're destined to have both !

I thought of that too, but I doubt it. If there was a team that had worse safety play than the Packers, it was probably the Bears. The Bears definitely won't be bringing him back. They've already given his jersey number to Ryan Mundy.

[Joemailman]

Breno Giaco is now a Jet. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000333659/article/breno-giacomini-new-york-jets-strike-deal

[Bretsky]

I thought of that too, but I doubt it. If there was a team that had worse safety play than the Packers, it was probably the Bears. The Bears definitely won't be bringing him back. They've already given his jersey number to Ryan Mundy.

Ryan Mundy might not be a bad signing if that front four can get intense pressure on the QB. Talent wise, he's average at best. But he's a guy who goes out and hammers and special teams. And he's a guy who is prettty well known for being the smartest guy on his defense. He's fanatical with game film study. He gets everybody in the right spot and makes some plays due to his intelligence. He started some games last year but then went to the bench when a better talent returned. The Packers need his brain alongside Burnett but they also need more talent to go along with the smarts. Major Wright struggled mentally and physically. I think they view a dependable hard working bookworm...so to speek.....a step up from Major Wright.

P.S......I read up on him some before FA...and also listened to NFL Network when they interviewed some Giants guys on what Chicago is getting in Mundy

[woodbuck27]

NOT SO FAST ON REVIS

his business manager now said their is no deal yet with the pats

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/12/business-manager-claims-no-agreement-has-been-reached-between-pats-and-revis/

its been a weird day, my head hurts

yea !

Ted was really busy today...wait did anyone think to awaken him from his looooong slumber.

Ted ! Ted !! Wake up man...your missing all the Free Agency action again today and you've got a boatload of money you can spend on some quality addition to take some heat off your draft.

What's that Ted?

Ohh I thought you mumbled something.....OK ..... I understand Ted .....

You were just yawning.

[wist43]

:beat::beat::beat:

I agree... why does Capers keep doing the same thing over and over, lol...

[Tony Oday]

Jared Allen. Vet leadership to train Jones.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Luckily for the Jets, Rodger Saffold failed his physical.

Eric Decker goes to the Jets. What a nasty downgrade at QB for him. His career is all downhill from here. One less suitor for James Jones perhaps?

[mraynrand]

I agree... why does Capers keep doing the same thing over and over, lol...

http://i.imgur.com/OTxFC.gif

[woodbuck27]

If TT is going to sit on his checkbook as far as other free agents as usual, I would just as soon see him pay Jones and EDS.

Both ....moves I hoped that TT would make.

So you know where that likely ends up!?

[woodbuck27]

That's laughable.

If Revis decides he wants to be there, he can make it happen, but at the expense of some of his take home. If he thinks he can haul in the same money as a starting QB AND be on a winning team, i.e. no big holes anywhere, he's delusional. Which he might be.

Something made that happen.

The Pat's needed to make a bold move at CB.

[woodbuck27]

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 34s
League source confirms @mneal96 has re-signed with Packers

Good that's one of the UFA's I hoped that TT would sign.

my list was short:

Sam Shields (done) Mike Neal (done) , CJ Wilson, James Jones and Evan Dietrich-Smith.


GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

True, scouts make mistakes. However, I'm not sold on the idea that Verner is the consensus better player in the eyes of personnel people. I've seen enough quotes about "buyer beware" on him. Most of these FAs are talked about like the are studs and most turn out to be disappointments. We know what we have with Shields (which is good and hopefully gets better). Also, the deal that Shields signed is team friendly. I could careless about what the headline reads on the total years and salary. He got a backloaded deal with a relatively low amount of guaranteed money. He'll be on the team for two years. If he morphs into an elite player or the cap goes up a lot, then his salary won't be so bad. Otherwise, he can be cut with minimal damage.

Yes.

[woodbuck27]

Addition through subtraction through (Bears') addition.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7183/md-jennings

"Only" a one year deal with terms unavailable now.

[Fritz]

Why do you guys want to sign defensive linemen??

We only play 2 at a time anyway, and we've got Boyd... all we need besides him is one more fat guy, and the rest of the fronts Capers uses would consist of Daniels and Jones. Surely TT can land a couple of slug footed fat guys in the 6/7th round??

Why spend any money on a position that really isn't expected to produce anything??



Wist, you are never happier than when you're miserable.

[3irty1]

Wist, you are never happier than when you're miserable.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esEdC0c3YI4

[Fritz]

She has some mighty purdy lips, that girl.

[Brandon494]

Damn Sproles to the Eagles...their offense is going to be sick next year if Maclin can come back to his old form.

[pbmax]

Needs to stop reading Twitter stat:

Stephen White ‏@sgw94 11h
YALL AINT WILLINGLY TAKING A DAMN PENNY'S WORTH OF A PAYCUT AT YOUR JOB. STOP EXPECTING PLAYERS TO DO WHAT YOU WONT!

[Brandon494]

Needs to stop reading Twitter stat:

Stephen White ‏@sgw94 11h
YALL AINT WILLINGLY TAKING A DAMN PENNY'S WORTH OF A PAYCUT AT YOUR JOB. STOP EXPECTING PLAYERS TO DO WHAT YOU WONT!

I mean hes right.

[red]

Needs to stop reading Twitter stat:

Stephen White ‏@sgw94 11h
YALL AINT WILLINGLY TAKING A DAMN PENNY'S WORTH OF A PAYCUT AT YOUR JOB. STOP EXPECTING PLAYERS TO DO WHAT YOU WONT!

sorry, i'm not scheduled to make 12 or 16 million this year, i can't relate

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 27m
Per league source, S James Ihedigbo is expected to sign with Lions.

[denverYooper]

al woods deal, 2 years 5 million

Meanwhile, Busari's phone sits silently on his nightstand. Crickets chirp in the cool, quiet night. Taking a long pull from a Newport 100, he reflects on what could have been.

[Fritz]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 27m
Per league source, S James Ihedigbo is expected to sign with Lions.

This, and signing Golden (Shower) Tate, all without renegotiating Suh's contract? How is this organization managing all this under the sal cap? I'll be curious to see how this plays out. I can only imagine that these signings mean they need more room, which gives Suh even more leverage.

[red]

This, and signing Golden (Shower) Tate, all without renegotiating Suh's contract? How is this organization managing all this under the sal cap? I'll be curious to see how this plays out. I can only imagine that these signings mean they need more room, which gives Suh even more leverage.

they had almost 7 million in free space. if they set up the deal just right they can fit both under the cap without having to mess with sue

the cap going up really helped out a lot of teams this year

[pbmax]

The very definition of reasonable.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 19m
Reasonable price, no? RT @TomPelissero: Mike Neal's deal with #Packers: 2 years, $8M, including a $2.5M signing bonus.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 14m
Vikings gave Everson Griffen $19.5 million fully guaranteed at signing http://bit.ly/1ftvMJU

[pbmax]

The very definition of reasonable.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 19m
Reasonable price, no? RT @TomPelissero: Mike Neal's deal with #Packers: 2 years, $8M, including a $2.5M signing bonus.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 12m
RT @TomPelissero: Clarification on Neal's #Packers deal: Actually $300K roster bonuses each year, plus a $1M roster bonus due next March.

[red]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 14m
Vikings gave Everson Griffen $19.5 million fully guaranteed at signing http://bit.ly/1ftvMJU

when you sign a free agent, especially to a 4 or 5 year deal, you're gonna keep him for at least 2 years. so its not to much of a leap of faith to just go ahead and "guarantee" the first 2 years pay.

[pbmax]

Alterraun Verner did not get a better deal than Shields on his guarantee.

$8M initial guarantee (2014 base + roster bonus)
2015: $4M guarantees on 5th league day
2016: $2M guarantees on 5th league day
2014 Roster Bonus: $3M
2014 Incentive: $250,000

So first year $8.25 million, $8.0 mil guaranteed. If he is on the team on 5th day of League year, $4 mil of his base is guaranteed. In third year, same terms, $2 mil guarantees.

Outside of first year, this deal is truly year is year.

CONTRACT:4 yr(s) / $25,750,000

[red]

Alterraun Verner did not get a better deal than Shields on his guarantee.

$8M initial guarantee (2014 base + roster bonus)
2015: $4M guarantees on 5th league day
2016: $2M guarantees on 5th league day
2014 Roster Bonus: $3M
2014 Incentive: $250,000

So first year $8.25 million, $8.0 mil guaranteed. If he is on the team on 5th day of League year, $4 mil of his base is guaranteed. In third year, same terms, $2 mil guarantees.

Outside of first year, this deal is truly year is year.

CONTRACT:4 yr(s) / $25,750,000

told you guys

and it was initially reported as 20 million "guaranteed"

[red]

The very definition of reasonable.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 19m
Reasonable price, no? RT @TomPelissero: Mike Neal's deal with #Packers: 2 years, $8M, including a $2.5M signing bonus.

at first glance, its a bit more then i would have liked, but not much

this is another case to me of paying a player what you think he'll be worth in the future vs what he is right now

right now, he's a part time starter and situational player that got close to full time starter money

but, like i said, i would have been fine with 3 or 3.5 a year and he got 4 which includes a lot of game day bonuses. so its right there, and the difference is no biggie.

lets just hope he keeps improving like we all hope he will and win the starter spot outright

[red]

after the raiders "failed" saffold, the only other team that wanted him was his original team. rams signed him for a 5 year 32 million dollar deal

the deal he signed with the raiders was 5 year 42 million

ouch, someone can't be a happy camper today

[wist43]

Wist, you are never happier than when you're miserable.

The situation on defense is hopeless. The players really don't matter... draft picks and money certainly haven't done anything to improve our defense - and since no one, including TT and MM, seems to think Mr. Spraypaintedhair is the problem - the dismal conditions and results will continue.

You know the old saying... Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

I don't see any point in drafting any defensive player above the 5th round; nor in spending any money on FA's. If I thought there were any hope of getting rid of Capers next year, I'd say go ahead and draft the BPA, but taking any defensive player early in the draft is just a waste - b/c Spraypaintedhair isn't going anywhere any time soon.

[red]

told you guys

and it was initially reported as 20 million "guaranteed"

wait, no

i'm thinking of vontae davis

i'm waiting on his numbers, he's the one that signed the same deal as sam but got 20 million "guaranteed"

fuck you guys

[run pMc]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 12m
RT @TomPelissero: Clarification on Neal's #Packers deal: Actually $300K roster bonuses each year, plus a $1M roster bonus due next March.

My First thought at 2y/$8M was "that's Walden money for an unproven OLB, you overpaid". Actually, this isn't bad -- to me it looks like a 'we pay as you go, you prove you deserve more' deal. If he flops or gets hurt they can cut him loose without much of a cap hit. If he does well, he's probably starting and playing at or just below the average starting OLB salary.

I got no complaints.

[run pMc]

So on 3rd and 8, a 2-4 front of Daniels, Datone, Perry, Matthews, Neal, and Hawk doesn't make you think Capers won't cook something interesting up?

[Tony Oday]

The situation on defense is hopeless. The players really don't matter... draft picks and money certainly haven't done anything to improve our defense - and since no one, including TT and MM, seems to think Mr. Spraypaintedhair is the problem - the dismal conditions and results will continue.

You know the old saying... Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

I don't see any point in drafting any defensive player above the 5th round; nor in spending any money on FA's. If I thought there were any hope of getting rid of Capers next year, I'd say go ahead and draft the BPA, but taking any defensive player early in the draft is just a waste - b/c Spraypaintedhair isn't going anywhere any time soon.

You realize if Hyde actually catches the pic in the playoffs the Pack are in the next round right?

[Fritz]

Wist is happy right now. Leave him alone.

[Zool]

You know the old saying... Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

You mean like harping on how bad the D and Capers are and how this team is going nowhere fast?

[wist43]

You mean like harping on how bad the D and Capers are and how this team is going nowhere fast?

Or... defending pathetic results year after year??

I think you guys might be better at defending Capers, than Capers is at defending an opponents offense.

I can't begin to fathom why you guys love this guy so much... set a league record for pass defense futility?? no worries; embarrassing blowout losses?? no worries, Spraypaintedhair is our man!!!; constant miscommunication and breakdowns?? no worries, Doms da man; etc...

TT and MM love the guy though... so we're stuck with him - probably long after Rodgers rides off into the sunset. As I said though, at least we caught that fart in the wind a few years ago - that's going to have to last us a long, long time - at least until Spraypaintedhair dies of old age.

[red]

Garrett Graham resigns with the texans

[Zool]

Or... defending pathetic results year after year??

I think you guys might be better at defending Capers, than Capers is at defending an opponents offense.

I can't begin to fathom why you guys love this guy so much... set a league record for pass defense futility?? no worries; embarrassing blowout losses?? no worries, Spraypaintedhair is our man!!!; constant miscommunication and breakdowns?? no worries, Doms da man; etc...

TT and MM love the guy though... so we're stuck with him - probably long after Rodgers rides off into the sunset. As I said though, at least we caught that fart in the wind a few years ago - that's going to have to last us a long, long time - at least until Spraypaintedhair dies of old age.

I'm still waiting to see where I defend Capers. I merely try and point out that you aren't employed by an NFL team in any capacity so should be taken with a grain of salt.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 12s
Jermichael Finley is leaving Seattle today & there is mutual interest in him signing with #Seahawks, per source. Waiting for clearance tho

[bobblehead]

I mean hes right.

In many cases he is wrong. Many people reject offers of more money to stay at their current location for a variety of reasons.

[Zool]

Per Dunne and Demovsky, Packers resigned Quarless.

[bobblehead]

So on 3rd and 8, a 2-4 front of Daniels, Datone, Perry, Matthews, Neal, and Hawk doesn't make you think Capers won't cook something interesting up?

The problem is that we ran it on 1st and 10, gave up 6 yards running, again on 2nd and 4, gave up between 3 and 12 yards running, now if we are lucky we are running it on 3rd and 1....not so appealing all of a sudden.

[3irty1]

You mean like harping on how bad the D and Capers are and how this team is going nowhere fast?

No he means like harping on a poster notorious for their hyperbole-laden criticisms and unyielding stances in the face of contrary evidence and expecting either to change.

[Zool]

No he means like harping on a poster notorious for their hyperbole-laden criticisms and unyielding stances in the face of contrary evidence and expecting either to change.

Look.....I....things....you don't...dammit

[Striker]

Per Dunne and Demovsky, Packers resigned Quarless.

I wonder if an Ebron is in our future.

[Fritz]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 12s
Jermichael Finley is leaving Seattle today & there is mutual interest in him signing with #Seahawks, per source. Waiting for clearance tho

Ebron, if he's still sitting there at #21, would be a good choice, I think, from what little I know.

Somehow I don't think it would bother me too much if Finley left. I just don't see him effectively going over the middle any more. And he still isn't a good blocker.

[red]

Ebron, if he's still sitting there at #21, would be a good choice, I think, from what little I know.

Somehow I don't think it would bother me too much if Finley left. I just don't see him effectively going over the middle any more. And he still isn't a good blocker.

i don't think we have a choice. unless something changes soon, we need to go d-line and safety with our first 2 picks

we HAVE TO, we need starters there

depending on what we just gave Q, the team might be thinking he's the future

[Fritz]

I don't think so, Red. If Ebron were to drop - I don't think he will, but if - you'd be a fool to pass on a guy who could be the difference-maker that Finley was for brief stretches. You don't pass on All-Pro talent to take a pretty good guy at a different position, no matter what your need.

[Zool]

I wonder if an Ebron is in our future.

Someone here said a few weeks ago that FA should come after the draft. That would make this a lot more fun to watch.

[red]

then BPA and a draft and develop only system do not work together

you can't not address safety again this year for the second year in a row. and there is a massive drop off in talent between the two top safeties and all the rest

offense is not our problem, we need to fix the D. and even though i'm not the biggest fan of Q, finley isn't going to be as had to replace as many people seem to think he will

good replacements for finley are probably going to be there in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. if you take a safety in the 2nd or 3rd you're bringing in a big project player that may or may not be able to start for a couple years

[red]

Someone here said a few weeks ago that FA should come after the draft. That would make this a lot more fun to watch.

that was me

for most teams, the current way probably works best, for us, i think it would be better the other way

[pbmax]

In many cases he is wrong. Many people reject offers of more money to stay at their current location for a variety of reasons.

Sure, but do people have anyone other than their mothers-in-law on Twitter egging them on to reject the more lucrative offer?

[3irty1]

We definitely don't HAVE TO draft a certain position in the first two rounds. But we're also not even close to done shopping. Is not every single one of our DL FA's still available? At safety even if we go into the season with nothing but a half baked idea to move Hyde, that's no worse than what we rolled out last year.

[red]

I don't think so, Red. If Ebron were to drop - I don't think he will, but if - you'd be a fool to pass on a guy who could be the difference-maker that Finley was for brief stretches. You don't pass on All-Pro talent to take a pretty good guy at a different position, no matter what your need.

and i don't think ebron is the cats ass that a lot of people make him out to be. you watch tape on him, and he's not taking over games, he's not dominating. he's doing his job and doing it well. but i don't know if he's a guy you have to take over other major needs

[red]

We definitely don't HAVE TO draft a certain position in the first two rounds. But we're also not even close to done shopping. Is not every single one of our DL FA's still available? At safety even if we go into the season with nothing but a half baked idea to move Hyde, that's no worse than what we rolled out last year.

we don't know that for sure. we'd like to think he can do it cause he looked solid last year at cb, and we think he's smart enough to make the switch, but we don't know

he could be terrible at safety. hell he could pull a house and look like shit at cb next year

[red]

ok, this one has my attention

vince wilfork has asked the pats for his release. he IS the prototype NT

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/13/vince-wilfork-wants-out-of-new-england/

[3irty1]

we don't know that for sure. we'd like to think he can do it cause he looked solid last year at cb, and we think he's smart enough to make the switch, but we don't know

he could be terrible at safety. hell he could pull a house and look like shit at cb next year

And we don't know that Jarius Byrd won't go on IR in September. And we don't know that Calvin Pryor will be any better than Hyde. And we don't know that Jarrett Bush won't be possessed by the ghost of Sean Taylor and become DPOY. I guess we'll have to play the games to find out but there are no sure things but if Hyde was plan A I could live with it enough to not panic and grab a safety if a better player was available.

Luckily Ted has been really adept at navigating the draft and addressing needs.

[3irty1]

ok, this one has my attention

vince wilfork has asked the pats for his release. he IS the prototype NT

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/13/vince-wilfork-wants-out-of-new-england/

Holy shit.

[wist43]

No he means like harping on a poster notorious for their hyperbole-laden criticisms and unyielding stances in the face of contrary evidence and expecting either to change.

Something like that, lol...

[red]

wilfork is set to count 11.6 million against the cap, he has a salary of 7.5 and the team wants him to take a pay cut

i would be fine with giving him 7.5 million a year, even if he is 32 and coming off a serious injury

[3irty1]

I didn't know it was his Achilles though. That sucks, that's not something you come back from as a defensive lineman.

[red]

I didn't know it was his Achilles though. That sucks, that's not something you come back from as a defensive lineman.

no?

why because of all the bending, or is it a strength thing?

[pbmax]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 30m
#Packers have a visit set up with DT Vance Walker, per his agent. Walker, who played for the Raiders and Falcons, is visiting with KC today.

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 51m
After visiting the #Packers on Wednesday. RT @caplannfl: Next visit for TE Owen Daniels is with the #Redskins, per source.

[red]

heres a story about the injury

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2014/01/vince_wilfork_on_achilles_inju.html


At one point Wilfork was presented with a statistic that says nearly 66 percent of players who suffer an Achilles injury do not come back or return at a lesser level. Now 32, Wilfork knows that the odds are against him, and acknowledged that the road back may be difficult, but he remains determined to play again.

[red]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 30m
#Packers have a visit set up with DT Vance Walker, per his agent. Walker, who played for the Raiders and Falcons, is visiting with KC today.

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 51m
After visiting the #Packers on Wednesday. RT @caplannfl: Next visit for TE Owen Daniels is with the #Redskins, per source.

so i'm guessing it was a no for daniels since we signed Q right after his visit

[wist43]

then BPA and a draft and develop only system do not work together

you can't not address safety again this year for the second year in a row. and there is a massive drop off in talent between the two top safeties and all the rest

offense is not our problem, we need to fix the D. and even though i'm not the biggest fan of Q, finley isn't going to be as had to replace as many people seem to think he will

good replacements for finley are probably going to be there in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. if you take a safety in the 2nd or 3rd you're bringing in a big project player that may or may not be able to start for a couple years

We've got a ton invested in the defense... that's been my point.

After the SB season, our defense obviously needed help - but TT did absolutely nothing, and we turned in one of the worst defensive seasons in NFL history.

TT then addressed the defense that last 2 years, and Capers misuses everyone. It's not like I'm making this shit up.

We have 5 1st round draft picks in our front (7), Raji, Matthews, Hawk, Perry, and Jones; we have 2 2nd round picks, Worthy and Neal; and a 4th rounder in Daniels. We also have a former 1st rounder who has been one of the few solid players in our defensive front, Pickett.

Brad Jones was resigned for too much money; Burnett was a 3rd round pick, and Williams and Shields have been given big contracts. That's a lot of money and high draft picks to be putting up such pathetic numbers.

So the question has to become - do you keep throwing resources at a problem that you seem incapable of fixing?? If it isn't Capers fault, which no one exempt me and you seems to think it is, then what to do??

If they aren't going to dump Capers - then we just need to go with what we have, and hope to catch another fart in the wind.

[3irty1]

It ruins your ability to explode off the line and its not usually something you really recover 100% from.

[red]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 30m
#Packers have a visit set up with DT Vance Walker, per his agent. Walker, who played for the Raiders and Falcons, is visiting with KC today.



that could be a good signing, if we can even get him to green bay to talk

[red]

It ruins your ability to explode off the line and its not usually something you really recover 100% from.

so my next question would be, is explosion important for a NT?

its not like a cb or wr, NT is like a big pile of rocks imo

[red]

We've got a ton invested in the defense... that's been my point.

After the SB season, our defense obviously needed help - but TT did absolutely nothing, and we turned in one of the worst defensive seasons in NFL history.

TT then addressed the defense that last 2 years, and Capers misuses everyone. It's not like I'm making this shit up.

We have 5 1st round draft picks in our front (7), Raji, Matthews, Hawk, Perry, and Jones; we have 2 2nd round picks, Worthy and Neal; and a 4th rounder in Daniels. We also have a former 1st rounder who has been one of the few solid players in our defensive front, Pickett.

Brad Jones was resigned for too much money; Burnett was a 3rd round pick, and Williams and Shields have been given big contracts. That's a lot of money and high draft picks to be putting up such pathetic numbers.

So the question has to become - do you keep throwing resources at a problem that you seem incapable of fixing?? If it isn't Capers fault, which no one exempt me and you seems to think it is, then what to do??

If they aren't going to dump Capers - then we just need to go with what we have, and hope to catch another fart in the wind.

yeah, i've said for awhile and i've seen some articles lately that our overall play does not come close to matching the sum of all out parts on D

so for me, either the players are not living up to their draft billing, meaning TT is missing on a ton of picks lately. or the defensive staff isn't doing their jobs

[3irty1]

so my next question would be, is explosion important for a NT?

its not like a cb or wr, NT is like a big pile of rocks imo

I would think it is incredibly important for anyone that lines up in a 3 point stance but probably not quite the death blow it is to an edge rusher. That's how Merriman went from force to terrible so quickly.

[wist43]

yeah, i've said for awhile and i've seen some articles lately that our overall play does not come close to matching the sum of all out parts on D

so for me, either the players are not living up to their draft billing, meaning TT is missing on a ton of picks lately. or the defensive staff isn't doing their jobs

Exactly... and since I like a lot of the players - it has to be traced back to the coaching.

It's one or the other... these homers on PR won't acknowledge either.

[Tony Oday]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/10602481/vince-wilfork-asks-new-england-patriots-release

Any interest?

[red]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/10602481/vince-wilfork-asks-new-england-patriots-release

Any interest?

yes, we talked about it on the last page i think

but he's soon to be 33 and coming off a pretty serious injury that not many can return from

[red]

Garrett Graham who some have mentioned re-signed with the texans for 11.25 million over 3 years

[SMBASS]

Raiders sign the Giants Justin Tuck to a 2 yr./11M contract.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Raiders agreed to terms with DE/OLB LaMarr Woodley, formerly of the Steelers, on a two-year contract.
The deal is worth a max of $12 million. Oakland was the only visit Woodley, 30, made; he was scheduled to visit Tennessee next. With 2013 starting DEs Lamarr Houston and Justin Hunter free agents and Houston already signing with Chicago, the Raiders replace them with Woodley and Justin Tuck on Thursday. Woodley has exclusively been a 3-4 outside linebacker. The Raiders run a 4-3. In today's NFL, pass rushers are pass rushers.

Redskins signed DL Jason Hatcher, formerly of the Cowboys.
Hatcher left his Oakland visit and was scheduled to take a trip to Tennessee. Instead, he's staying in the NFC East. The Cowboys didn't make much of an effort to retain Hatcher because they really couldn't afford him. He'll turn 32 in July and is coming off an 11-sack season as a three-technique defensive tackle in Dallas' 4-3 defense. The Redskins run a 3-4, which means Hatcher will likely play end. He had 16 sacks in seven years before 2013.

Vikings signed CB Captain Munnerlyn to a three-year, $14.25 million contract with $7 million guaranteed.
Munnerlyn is obviously stretched outside at 5-foot-8 and 195 pounds, but he's one of the best slot corners in the game. Still only 26 -- he turns next month -- Munnerlyn turned in a breakout 2013 campaign as a 16-game starter, setting career highs in tackles (74), sacks (3.5), and pass breakups (12). He has four pick sixes over the past two seasons. Look for Munnerlyn to start outside on early downs and cover the slot in Mike Zimmer's nickel package.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/285025/raiders-ink-pass-rusher-woodley-to-2-yr-deal

[red]

that should be fun lining jordy up on a midget

[mraynrand]

Vikings signed CB Captain Munnerlyn to a three-year, $14.25 million contract with $7 million guaranteed.
Munnerlyn is obviously stretched outside at 5-foot-8 and 195 pounds, but he's one of the best slot corners in the game. Still only 26 -- he turns next month -- Munnerlyn turned in a breakout 2013 campaign as a 16-game starter, setting career highs in tackles (74), sacks (3.5), and pass breakups (12). He has four pick sixes over the past two seasons. Look for Munnerlyn to start outside on early downs and cover the slot in Mike Zimmer's nickel package.

The Love Boat was rudderless without a Captain.

[red]

The Love Boat was rudderless without a Captain.

every time i see his name i get thirsty

[bobblehead]

so my next question would be, is explosion important for a NT?

its not like a cb or wr, NT is like a big pile of rocks imo

I have bad achilles tendons. It is more painful than anything I have ever had, and I have had elbow tendinitis so bad that I got surgery. It actually hurts just to stand up and walk normal. I limp up stairs when I have flare ups. To my knowledge, nothing will ever make it 100% again.

[bobblehead]

Exactly... and since I like a lot of the players - it has to be traced back to the coaching.

It's one or the other... these homers on PR won't acknowledge either.

Now, Wist, we aren't all blind. I am with you regarding the 2-4 being utilized in many a wrong situations. However, I watched them do a dang good job against SF when they used a lot of 3-4. I also think we need to use a scheme where our fatties can jet/penetrate more and disrupt the running/passing game and let the LB's clean up the mess. In short, I agree that Dom kinda blows.

[red]

I have bad achilles tendons. It is more painful than anything I have ever had, and I have had elbow tendinitis so bad that I got surgery. It actually hurts just to stand up and walk normal. I limp up stairs when I have flare ups. To my knowledge, nothing will ever make it 100% again.

but bobble, you're in pain, but is the motion and strength there?

is it a thing that, if lets say, 5 or 6 million dollars was being dangled in front of your face, could you make it work or not?

would pain killers fix the problem (the pain), or even if the pain was gone you still wouldn't be able to do it

my achillies is bad since the whole destroying of my ankle thing, it didn't tear, but it hurts like a bitch and there's no "spring" to my step

[Bretsky]

Exactly... and since I like a lot of the players - it has to be traced back to the coaching.

It's one or the other... these homers on PR won't acknowledge either.


Wist....me still thinks u r full of beans and your homer view of some of these clods are why you hate Dom so much :)
Much of this is on TT

[bobblehead]

but bobble, you're in pain, but is the motion and strength there?

is it a think that, if lets say, 5 or 6 million dollars was being dangled in front of your face, could you make it work or not?

would pain killers fix the problem (the pain), or even if the pain was gone you still wouldn't be able to do it

my achillies is bad since the whole destroying of my ankle, it didn't tear, but it hurts like a bitch and there's no "spring" to my step

No, its the kind of pain you reflexively let up from. Not like a sore shoulder and doing the bench press, but you push through it. Think stepping on a knife and trying to "step through the pain". You simply can't do it, the nervous system won't allow it.

[Bretsky]

Garrett Graham who some have mentioned re-signed with the texans for 11.25 million over 3 years

DAM...he was on my prediction list.
I should just predict TT signs the biggest sacs of crap in free agency and maybe I'd have a chance....wait...last year I would have got one right as far as our own goes then :)

[Bretsky]

And we don't know that Jarius Byrd won't go on IR in September. And we don't know that Calvin Pryor will be any better than Hyde. And we don't know that Jarrett Bush won't be possessed by the ghost of Sean Taylor and become DPOY. I guess we'll have to play the games to find out but there are no sure things but if Hyde was plan A I could live with it enough to not panic and grab a safety if a better player was available.

Luckily Ted has been really adept at navigating the draft and addressing needs ON OFFENSE.

With the addition

[mraynrand]

Now, Wist, we aren't all blind. I am with you regarding the 2-4 being utilized in many a wrong situations. However, I watched them do a dang good job against SF when they used a lot of 3-4. I also think we need to use a scheme where our fatties can jet/penetrate more and disrupt the running/passing game and let the LB's clean up the mess. In short, I agree that Dom kinda blows.

they also did reasonably well in the 2-4 against SF in the opener. Someone broke that down play-by-play and showed that the 2-4 got them 4/5 of the defensive stops.

[bobblehead]

they also did reasonably well in the 2-4 against SF in the opener. Someone broke that down play-by-play and showed that the 2-4 got them 4/5 of the defensive stops.

Again, I don't mind the 2-4 on 3rd and 8 or more. I hate it on 3rd and 3. Its not the alignment itself that is the problem, its lining up in it and getting it put down our throats like Tina Turner.

[red]

No, its the kind of pain you reflexively let up from. Not like a sore shoulder and doing the bench press, but you push through it. Think stepping on a knife and trying to "step through the pain". You simply can't do it, the nervous system won't allow it.

got it. i do know that pain

[red]

they also did reasonably well in the 2-4 against SF in the opener. Someone broke that down play-by-play and showed that the 2-4 got them 4/5 of the defensive stops.

yeah, but that guy was a real asshole and is usually full of shit

so you can't trust his numbers

[pbmax]

I've lost track, so this could have been posted already.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 2h
The latest DL name to remember (which means he'll sign elsewhere) is Henry Melton.

DT Henry Melton allegedly bit bar owner; video released (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/250206801.html)

[red]

I've lost track, so this could have been posted already.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 2h
The latest DL name to remember (which means he'll sign elsewhere) is Henry Melton.

DT Henry Melton allegedly bit bar owner; video released (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/250206801.html)

as a signing for us? no way

he's on his way to queenland for a visit

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
High-ranking #Vikings fan weighs in RT @drewmagary: CAPTAIN MERLIN IS OURS HE’S A VERY HIGH RANKING NAVAL WIZARD

[Rastak]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
High-ranking #Vikings fan weighs in RT @drewmagary: CAPTAIN MERLIN IS OURS HE’S A VERY HIGH RANKING NAVAL WIZARD


Best name since Atari Bigby. Decent slot corner too. Wonder what that cost?

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 3h
Per @RobDemovsky, the #Packers intend to host free-agent DT Vance Walker. Rob's story: http://es.pn/1i8t2Gp

[red]

Best name since Atari Bigby. Decent slot corner too. Wonder what that cost?

3 years up to 15 million are the only details i can find

[red]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 3h
Per @RobDemovsky, the #Packers intend to host free-agent DT Vance Walker. Rob's story: http://es.pn/1i8t2Gp

yeah, he was brought up a couple pages back. he's in KC today and tomorrow. we need to get him out of there to have any chance of getting him

[Rastak]

3 years up to 15 million are the only details i can find


I just saw that too. Dude is pretty short but PFF ranked him #11 CB last year (his best year as a pro). PFF are sometimes hit or miss for me. One thing I will agree, the Vikings former slot corner was rated something like 97th out 110 corners. Beyond shitty in every sense of the word. I had read the Vikings wanted Hayward but you guys grabbed him a few picks earlier.


edit: Instead of Josh Robinson during that years draft.

[PlantPage55]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
High-ranking #Vikings fan weighs in RT @drewmagary: CAPTAIN MERLIN IS OURS HE’S A VERY HIGH RANKING NAVAL WIZARD

*nervously stares at a big piece of low-hanging fruit with the words "Love Boat" scrawled on it*

[Rastak]

*nervously stares at a big piece of low-hanging fruit with the words "Love Boat" scrawled on it*


He's no Fred Smoot, the real captain.


"I'm your captain, I'm your captain though I'm feeling, mighty sick"

[Striker]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 9m
Source: Ex-#Seahawks CB Brandon Browner has reached a two-year agreement with the #Patriots. Must serve 4-game suspension to start 2014

Well, at least he'll be away from temptation in Seattle.

[wist43]

they also did reasonably well in the 2-4 against SF in the opener. Someone broke that down play-by-play and showed that the 2-4 got them 4/5 of the defensive stops.

The guy who did that?? Is a homer and can't be trusted, but since I don't have the game recorded, and don't have access to a tape of the game - I will vote to convict out of pure spite :x

[Striker]

Or maybe not...

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2m
Brandon Browner's agent blasts report of deal with the Patriots. Steve Smith-style comments coming at PFT.

[mraynrand]

The guy who did that?? Is a homer and can't be trusted, but since I don't have the game recorded, and don't have access to a tape of the game - I will vote to convict out of pure spite :x

Of course, everyone who disagrees with your mania must be a homer. You've really lost it dude. Plus, I posted all the plays. So you're in denial of reality. Puts you in a very uncomfortable place for a guy who scolds certain groups for doing the same thing in other areas, such as (see FYI).

[packer4life]

To switch the topic a bit, I think the pack should sign Jacoby Jones, giving us a bit more depth at WR. He also makes our return game dynamic, not only an upgrade from Hyde, but also allows Hyde to focus on his improved play at either CB or safety. Wouldn't be much more than $3 million if that. A good return game wins championships, as they say.

[smuggler]

This draft is super deep at wide receiver, so I say pass on Jacoby and his salary.

[mraynrand]

^^^ already signed, I believe

[packer4life]

^^^ already signed, I believe

well so much for that.

[SMBASS]

well so much for that.

Yeah...Jacoby Jones re-signed with the Ravens yesterday. New 4 yr. agreement for something like 14M/4.5M guaranteed if I remember correctly.

[wist43]

Of course, everyone who disagrees with your mania must be a homer. You've really lost it dude. Plus, I posted all the plays. So you're in denial of reality. Puts you in a very uncomfortable place for a guy who scolds certain groups for doing the same thing in other areas, such as (see FYI).

Okay numb-nuts... you wanna play?? Let's look at your little breakdown - which, as I said, I cannot analyze b/c I don't have the game recorded. I will trust that the information you have provided is correct.

You wanna thump your chest b/c we forced 4 punts out of that alignment??

According to your post, we allowed 10 first downs, a TD, and a FG - and it would appear the only reason the FG wasn't a TD was b/c of a Niner penalty and a -7 yard play that apparently came from a defensive alignment other than the 2-4/1-5, as they had a 3rd and goal from the 22.

Out of those plays, we gave up 225 yds - which is an average of 10.23 yds/play.

How you can consider giving up 10.23 yds/play a success is beyond me :roll:

And those are your numbers, and take on each play. I'm sure if I broke the plays down, I'd have a far different telling of what was happening on every play.

Cause I got news for ya - giving up 10.23 yds/play, aint a win for the defense ;)


Game #1 GB at SF

Total defensive snaps (not counting the final clock-killing kneel downs)

72, 33 first half

3-4: (and two 4 man goal line fronts): 50 (79-90-97 – or some arrangement of this grouping: 30 (Wilson and Daniels substituted single on the other 20)
2-4: 20 (95-96: 14; 90-79: 3, 90-76: 1, 96-98: 1, 76-98: 1, )
1-5: 2 (95, Datone Jones as single lineman.

Let’s look at the 2-4 alignment plays. (down + distance) (are all 95-96, unless otherwise indicated. Neal typicall on the left, D.Jones on the right)
3+10: stopped QB run for 5 yards, punt
3+6: 10 yard completion to Boldin (81)
1+10 90-79; 25 y pass to Davis (85)
3+2: Run for 4
2+5 27 yard pass to 81
3+7 QB run stopped for 2; punt
3+6 Late hit, 52, offsetting penalties
3+6 TD pass to 81, McMillian in single coverage over middle (like taking candy from a baby!)
2+13 52 sack, -5
3+18 Pass for 12, punt
HALFTIME
2+10; 79-90 (hyde on run blitz from left end), Run for 1 yard
3+9 (actually this is a 1-5; Neal is off the line with Perry and Matthews); 23 yard pass to 81 - (note: very tight coverage byt shields and McMillian, great catch, decent pressure on Kap moving to his right).
1+10; 96-98; pass for 31 to (81) blown coverage on right sideline
3+5, Pass for 1 yard, punt
2+9; 76-98; pass for 36 to (85)
3+9 QB scramble for 15
3+goal from 17 yard line); penalty
3+goal from 22 (1-5 alignment); P for 14, FG
2+13; 90-79; run for 0 yards
3+13; pass incomplete, punt
3+4; pass 15 yards (85)
3+5; run 3 yards

49ers had 9 series in the game; 4 TDs and 1 FG and 5 stops; 4 of the stops were in 2-4 formation.


observations: Only 4 times was the formation used on anything close to an (obvious) running down (all were 3rd and 5 or less; a single third and 2 yielded a four yard run for first down, one other run was stopped, and two passes netted two first downs. The 3-4 was almost exclusively used in run downs. The 2-4 was used on passing downs, many times on 3rd and long and did yield some big plays. Most of the time these completions were against nickel or dime (B. Jones in or out) with only a four man rush. Kap’s 15 yard scramble came against rare 6 man pressure blitz. When the 2-4 was run against, it was very effective; only two successful runs, and one was a scramble.

Furthermore, you say we only used those alignments on 4 obvious running downs - whereas I count 7 such uses on 1st or 2nd down. Regardless of down/distance, 1st and 2nd down are either/or downs; combined with the 4 3rd downs you acknowledge - that's 11 plays in that alignment that were either/or, run/pass downs.

That's half of the plays you posted.

Of those 7 plays on 1st and 2nd down, we gave up 4 first downs, 115 yds, and had 1 sack.

That's an average of 16.43 yds/play on those downs.

Are you seriously going to argue those stats should be regarded as successful?? And that I'm in "denial", and in an "uncomfortable place" in arguing that this alignment, as played by Capers is junk??

Who's in denial??

[wist43]

Anyone else care to take issue with the numbers ayn posted??

He thinks his post paints a pretty picture for the 1-5/2-4; whereas I think I've demonstrated quite effectively that we got our asses handed to us out of that alignment.

By way of simple math, I've demonstated that overall we gave up an average of 10.23 yds/play; and in either/or, run/pass situations we gave up an avg of 16.43 yds/play.

There is no way those numbers could be considered a success for the defense. No-Freaking-Way.

[mraynrand]

Anyone else care to take issue with the numbers ayn posted??

He thinks his post paints a pretty picture for the 1-5/2-4; whereas I think I've demonstrated quite effectively that we got our asses handed to us out of that alignment.

By way of simple math, I've demonstated that overall we gave up an average of 10.23 yds/play; and in either/or, run/pass situations we gave up an avg of 16.43 yds/play.

There is no way those numbers could be considered a success for the defense. No-Freaking-Way.

your original point was that Capers used the 2-4 all the time and in the run defense all the time. Both were demonstrably 100% false. The 2-4 gave up some big plays, but the reasons had nothing to do with the alignment being unsound. Most of the yards were given up against McMillian and Jennings, who are no longer on the team. The Packers gave up over 400 yards, so half came against the 2-4, which was used almost exclusively in passing situations, which give up more yards than the 3-4, which was used more often and against the run. So, you ignored down and distance and play selection. You're analysis is thoroughly UNSOUND.



There is no way those numbers could be considered a success for the defense. No-Freaking-Way.

I wasn't trying to prove that the alignment was especially successful. I was simply analyzing it in broad terms and then addressing, and completely refuting, all your absurd claims. I did that. I also showed that the alignment was successful in stopping run/scrambles by Kap and was reasonably successful in ending drives: 4/5 drives the defense stopped were 2-4 or 1-5.

[wist43]

Come on ayn... you wanna run your fuckin mouth - back it the fuck up!!!

I see you're still online - let's hear it asshole!!!

[wist43]

your original point was that Capers used the 2-4 all the time and in the run defense all the time. Both were demonstrably 100% false. The 2-4 gave up some big plays, but the reasons had nothing to do with the alignment being unsound. Most of the yards were given up against McMillian and Jennings, who are no longer on the team. The Packers gave up over 400 yards, so half came against the 2-4, which was used almost exclusively in passing situations, which give up more yards than the 3-4, which was used more often and against the run. So, you ignored down and distance and play selection. You're analysis is thoroughly UNSOUND.

Fuck you, that's weak... of course he doesn't run it all the time.

You're an idiot.

[mraynrand]

Fuck you, that's weak... of course he doesn't run it all the time.

You're an idiot.

you kept saying he ran it all the time, and GLOATED when someone showed he ran it 67% of the time in 2011 - with no stats to back up anything. your second main complaint is that it was misused against the run. In the opened no such thing happened - and when it was used, and the 49ers ran, it was effective, except on two plays. I refuted your points and I get name calling in return.

[wist43]

Besides ayn - I've always acknowledged that Capers ran more 3-4 against SF than any other team.

So even though you used the SF game to try to muddy the facts - the facts still bear me out.

[wist43]

you kept saying he ran it all the time, and GLOATED when someone showed he ran it 67% of the time in 2011 - with no stats to back up anything. your second main complaint is that it was misused against the run. In the opened no such thing happened - and when it was used, and the 49ers ran, it was effective, except on two plays. I refuted your points and I get name calling in return.

As I said... Capers ran a base 3-4 against the Niners more than any other team.

And when he did run the base 3-4 more, he got better results.

All of which back up my argument.

[mraynrand]

Furthermore, you say we only used those alignments on 4 obvious running downs - whereas I count 7 such uses on 1st or 2nd down. Regardless of down/distance, 1st and 2nd down are either/or downs; combined with the 4 3rd downs you acknowledge - that's 11 plays in that alignment that were either/or, run/pass downs.

I don't have all the alignments of SF of course. Several of those 1st and tens are with 3 wide outs, so it's not an obvious running down. There were two 1:10 and SF passed on both - the fact that they passed on those pretty much proves they weren't obvious run downs. On the 2;10 they ran for one yard.

[mraynrand]

As I said... Capers ran a base 3-4 against the Niners more than any other team.

And when he did run the base 3-4 more, he got better results.

All of which back up my argument.

They routinely used it against running teams and running downs until they lost Jolly for sure. Like I said, the next games will be coming and you can look at the numbers.

[wist43]

I don't have all the alignments of SF of course. Several of those 1st and tens are with 3 wide outs, so it's not an obvious running down. There were two 1:10 and SF passed on both - the fact that they passed on those pretty much proves they weren't obvious run downs. On the 2;10 they ran for one yard.

They're either/or downs - base downs.

If you're in your base 3-4 and they run, you're stout enough up front to shut it down; and if they pass, you should be able to get push and pass rush. With the 2-4, you don't stand much of a chance against the run - we obviously sucked against the pass in that alignment regardless of down/distance. As I demonstrated.

How you don't see that is beyond me... seriously, you're like an idiot liberal who thinks government spending the same as economic growth.

[wist43]

They routinely used it against running teams and running downs until they lost Jolly for sure. Like I said, the next games will be coming and you can look at the numbers.

I will... and I know what the results will be.

As it is, I missed a lot of games due to health problems, so I don't know what Capers ran for most of the first half of the season - I know our defensive numbers were okay. From about the mid-point on, we were abysmal... but I only watched some of those games.

At the end of the season, we were ranked as one of the worst defenses in the league - 25th.

So something obviously went awry. When I was able to watch - it was painful, b/c we were in that idiotic 2-4... which of course sent my BP thru the roof, and I had to shut the TV off, lol...

[Teamcheez1]

Okay numb-nuts... you wanna play?? Let's look at your little breakdown - which, as I said, I cannot analyze b/c I don't have the game recorded. I will trust that the information you have provided is correct.

You wanna thump your chest b/c we forced 4 punts out of that alignment??

According to your post, we allowed 10 first downs, a TD, and a FG - and it would appear the only reason the FG wasn't a TD was b/c of a Niner penalty and a -7 yard play that apparently came from a defensive alignment other than the 2-4/1-5, as they had a 3rd and goal from the 22.

Out of those plays, we gave up 225 yds - which is an average of 10.23 yds/play.

How you can consider giving up 10.23 yds/play a success is beyond me :roll:

And those are your numbers, and take on each play. I'm sure if I broke the plays down, I'd have a far different telling of what was happening on every play.

Cause I got news for ya - giving up 10.23 yds/play, aint a win for the defense ;)





Furthermore, you say we only used those alignments on 4 obvious running downs - whereas I count 7 such uses on 1st or 2nd down. Regardless of down/distance, 1st and 2nd down are either/or downs; combined with the 4 3rd downs you acknowledge - that's 11 plays in that alignment that were either/or, run/pass downs.

That's half of the plays you posted.

Of those 7 plays on 1st and 2nd down, we gave up 4 first downs, 115 yds, and had 1 sack.

That's an average of 16.43 yds/play on those downs.

Are you seriously going to argue those stats should be regarded as successful?? And that I'm in "denial", and in an "uncomfortable place" in arguing that this alignment, as played by Capers is junk??

Who's in denial??

You are like rainman on steroids.

[woodbuck27]

I will... and I know what the results will be.

As it is, I missed a lot of games due to health problems, so I don't know what Capers ran for most of the first half of the season - I know our defensive numbers were okay. From about the mid-point on, we were abysmal... but I only watched some of those games.

At the end of the season, we were ranked as one of the worst defenses in the league - 25th.

So something obviously went awry. When I was able to watch - it was painful, b/c we were in that idiotic 2-4... which of course sent my BP thru the roof, and I had to shut the TV off, lol...

Wist43...Don't allow these deluded Homers to get to you. Watch your health...their not worth taxing that Packer fan.

Of course your right. You've always been right and you'll be right until the Green Bay Packers ever get around to replacing Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy. . .; .thus EXIT stage (finally he's left) Dom Capers.

We simply have to be patient as soon TT and MM will be gone.

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10600889/steve-smith-released-carolina-panthers


Panthers release Steve Smith


Updated: March 13, 2014, 7:39 PM ET

" The Carolina Panthers released wide receiver Steve Smith on Thursday, ending his productive and sometimes tumultuous tenure with the organization that drafted him 13 seasons ago." LINK

[mraynrand]

Wist43...Don't allow these deluded Homers to get to you.

Tired. Trite. Incorrect. Strawman.

[SkinBasket]

got it. i do know that pain

Then how do you ever sit down?

[hoosier]

I have bad achilles tendons. It is more painful than anything I have ever had, and I have had elbow tendinitis so bad that I got surgery. It actually hurts just to stand up and walk normal. I limp up stairs when I have flare ups. To my knowledge, nothing will ever make it 100% again.

When do they hurt most? What have you tried doing for them?

[3irty1]

Diggin the vibes in this thread right now.

[wist43]

Wist43...Don't allow these deluded Homers to get to you. Watch your health...their not worth taxing that Packer fan.

Of course your right. You've always been right and you'll be right until the Green Bay Packers ever get around to replacing Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy. . .; .thus EXIT stage (finally he's left) Dom Capers.

We simply have to be patient as soon TT and MM will be gone.

When it comes to the 2-4, and how Capers misuses the personnel TT has given him - yeah, I know I'm right. It's right there on the screen for everyone to see - and the statistics bear me out.

As for TT and MM, I don't want those guys gone... but I do want them to get in Capers face, and force him to start using the personnel appropriately. If Capers won't, which he won't, he has to go. I would already have fired him, but then again, I would have put my foot down about the 2-4 and the dismal results it was producing a long time ago.

As others have noted, Capers has a track record of coming to a new team - straightening out the mess he inherited, and then making a new mess of his own design - which predictably leads to his firing. Well, we're at that firing stage here in Green Bay, but TT and MM haven't done anything about the mess Capers created, they just keep whistlin dixie.

[Zool]

If you disagree with a loud shouting guy, you're a homer. I've said this many times. You don't even have to have a counter argument, just call someone out on something stupid they've said and you're instantly a know-nothing homer while the shouting guy is Bellichick 2.0

[run pMc]

Diggin the vibes in this thread right now.

Yeah, pretty awesome.
I'd comment on the 2-4 but will pass. (wrong thread)
I will mention that stops on 3rd/4th down are more important IMHO than yds/play. Any offense could methodically march down the field with 4 yard dump offs to the RB, quick screens to the WR and outs to the TE which would make your pass defense look pretty good on a yd/play avg...but if the defense can't get off the field it doesn't matter. Wins matter and that happens by scoring points.

Back to Free Agency Rumors, any info on Vance Walker? Is he any good? He's listed at 6-2" 305, so he's squatty for a DE.
Will we have to wait until next week for TT to sign someone?

[Packers4Glory]

sure hope Hyde can make the transition to safety.

[wist43]

If you disagree with a loud shouting guy, you're a homer. I've said this many times. You don't even have to have a counter argument, just call someone out on something stupid they've said and you're instantly a know-nothing homer while the shouting guy is Bellichick 2.0

Take issue with the breakdown of the numbers ayn posted then - and get the plank out of your eye.

I gave a far different interpretation of the plays that ayn posted - I think my analysis holds up far better than his. Instead of uselessly running your mouth, why don't you take issue with the analysis I provided??

[pbmax]

Of those 7 plays on 1st and 2nd down, we gave up 4 first downs, 115 yds, and had 1 sack.

That's an average of 16.43 yds/play on those downs.

Are you seriously going to argue those stats should be regarded as successful?? And that I'm in "denial", and in an "uncomfortable place" in arguing that this alignment, as played by Capers is junk??

Who's in denial??

1+10 90-79; 25 y pass to Davis (85)
2+5 27 yard pass to 81
2+13 52 sack, -5
2+10; 79-90 (hyde on run blitz from left end), Run for 1 yard
1+10; 96-98; pass for 31 to (81) blown coverage on right sideline
2+9; 76-98; pass for 36 to (85)
2+13; 90-79; run for 0 yards


Pass plays on 2-4, on first and second down: 119 yards - 5 yd sack = 114 yards net

Run plays in 2-4 on first and second down: 001 yard

Well, this is the confusion right here. I thought all along wist thought the 2-4 was too soft and small and prone to be run against. What he was ACTUALLY complaining about was the pass defense in nickel 2-4.

[Zool]

Take issue with the breakdown of the numbers ayn posted then - and get the plank out of your eye.

I gave a far different interpretation of the plays that ayn posted - I think my analysis holds up far better than his. Instead of uselessly running your mouth, why don't you take issue with the analysis I provided??

I rarely take issue with your game analysis, only your treatment of people who disagree with you. You and I are usually pretty close to the same opinions on players and whatnot. (remember Nick Barnett?) I myself choose to not assume I'm 100% correct because I'm a football fan and realize I have limited knowledge. I pointed out a few weeks ago that the Patriots run a large amount of 2-4 and that their D was almost as bad as the Packers D in 2011 yet no one is calling for Bellichick's head. This is my point. We know about exactly fucking nothing compared to these guys. I'd like Capers gone yesterday but shouting it in every post I make on this messageboard does not make me sound smart. It makes me sound like a lunatic with a vengeance. McCarthy said a couple years ago he wanted a bend but don't break D that causes a lot of turnovers. That's a very apt description of Capers' scheme over his career and even LeBeau's version in Pitt right now. They give up yards, but not a lot of points while causing a large number of turnovers.

I even stated early in the offseason that it looks more like our personnel is shifting to a 4-3 group of front 7 players.

[denverYooper]

When it comes to the 2-4, and how Capers misuses the personnel TT has given him - yeah, I know I'm right.


http://youtu.be/qv96yJYhk3M

[red]

and here come the numbers i've been waiting for

aqib talib, who signed that "monster" long term contract that included 26 million "guaranteed"

well, only 11.5 million is actually guaranteed. it includes a 5 million dollar signing bonus, a 2million dollar roster bonus this year, and a fully guaranteed 2014 salary of 4.5 million

his 2015 and 2016 are guaranteed for injury only, and he has to be on the roster on the third day of the league year to get them

the broncos could cut him after this season if things don't work out and actually gain cap space.

his 2014 take home pay would be 11.5 million, less then sam shields

he he stays with the team for 2015, it will be a 2 year 17 million dollar deal or 8.5 million per year, less then sam shields

[Zool]

1+10 90-79; 25 y pass to Davis (85)
2+5 27 yard pass to 81
2+13 52 sack, -5
2+10; 79-90 (hyde on run blitz from left end), Run for 1 yard
1+10; 96-98; pass for 31 to (81) blown coverage on right sideline
2+9; 76-98; pass for 36 to (85)
2+13; 90-79; run for 0 yards


Pass plays on 2-4, on first and second down: 119 yards - 5 yd sack = 114 yards net

Run plays in 2-4 on first and second down: 001 yard

Well, this is the confusion right here. I thought all along wist thought the 2-4 was too soft and small and prone to be run against. What he was ACTUALLY complaining about was the pass defense in nickel 2-4.

Until the safety play improves, it really doesn't matter if they play a 0-6-5. I could complete a pass with McMillian/Doc Jennings/Banjo(sorry PB)/Bigby/Manuel on the field.

Edit: Peprah/Bush/Anthony Smith/Rouse. Geeze that's bad when you look back. Collins and Burnett would have been a good combo I suppose, but no good backup plan for injuries.

[wist43]

1+10 90-79; 25 y pass to Davis (85)
2+5 27 yard pass to 81
2+13 52 sack, -5
2+10; 79-90 (hyde on run blitz from left end), Run for 1 yard
1+10; 96-98; pass for 31 to (81) blown coverage on right sideline
2+9; 76-98; pass for 36 to (85)
2+13; 90-79; run for 0 yards


Pass plays on 2-4, on first and second down: 119 yards - 5 yd sack = 114 yards net

Run plays in 2-4 on first and second down: 001 yard

Well, this is the confusion right here. I thought all along wist thought the 2-4 was too soft and small and prone to be run against. What he was ACTUALLY complaining about was the pass defense in nickel 2-4.

That's only one of my complaints about the alignment; the complaint next in line would be that it presents a very limited pass rush look; and if you have the fat guys in there at DT, and don't blitz someone else - you're basically looking a 2 man pass rush, b/c the fat guys, at least our fat guys, can't collapse the pocket.

Combine that with the fact that 2 of our "4" in the 2-4 look, are 2 of our most pedestrian defenders - Hawk and Jones... neither of whom can rush the passer to save their lives. So right there, the way Capers uses the personnel - 4 of the 6 players in the front are incapable of generating any pass rush.

There's no shortage of criticism that can be leveled at Capers and the 2-4. Maybe a team like the Niners, who have all-pro personnel throughout their front, can get away with running that alignment, but certainly not the Packers the way Capers runs it.

[pbmax]

I will mention that stops on 3rd/4th down are more important IMHO than yds/play.

This.

Bad run defense has gotten this team into trouble, but its been bad in base and sub with some notable exceptions for a 3 years now. This prevents Capers from getting into preferred alignments on longer yardage down and distance situations. This is not good.

However, the larger issue, as the San Fran game pointed out, was that the pass defense has hemorrhaged yardage in big plays for quite a while and no longer gets INTs to end drives. That is partially, perhaps mostly, a result of the backend defenders being injured, old (Woodson), young or terrible safety play. But its also generating a controlled pass rush when you face a team that can run and pass and chooses to pass.

When McCarthy says (or at least Silverstein reports it as his desire) he wants to be able to generate a pass rush from taller more athletic DEs, he means he wants someone on the field besides his LBs to provide the pass rush. Daniels and Neal were OK at this last year, but neither played regularly in base (until Jolly got injured and Daniels subbed in). Pickett at nose, Raji at DT, Jolly or Wilson at DE weren't getting it done. Wist says ( I would argue rightly) that there is talent on this team. However, there is not the talent they need to play base and pass rush effectively.

[wist43]

Until the safety play improves, it really doesn't matter if they play a 0-6-5. I could complete a pass with McMillian/Doc Jennings/Banjo(sorry PB)/Bigby/Manuel on the field.

To which, I think all of us have argued a variety of remedies to address the mess in the back end. If the players aren't communicating properly - and that is what is going on more often than getting beat physcially - then that comes back to Capers, again.

If the guys back there are a bunch of retards, or if they're so wet behind the ears that they don't understand what they're doing - then it is on Capers to simplify things to the point where they can understand it, and at least not be busting coverages every 3rd play.

[Zool]

To which, I think all of us have argued a variety of remedies to address the mess in the back end. If the players aren't communicating properly - and that is what is going on more often than getting beat physcially - then that comes back to Capers, again.

If the guys back there are a bunch of retards, or if they're so wet behind the ears that they don't understand what they're doing - then it is on Capers to simplify things to the point where they can understand it, and at least not be busting coverages every 3rd play.

I'd be happy with only every 3rd play right now. It seems there's always someone running free somewhere. Not like bad coverage, but just no coverage at all. There's too little pass rush to compensate for the terrible secondary play.

[pbmax]

That's only one of my complaints about the alignment; the complaint next in line would be that it presents a very limited pass rush look; and if you have the fat guys in there at DT, and don't blitz someone else - you're basically looking a 2 man pass rush, b/c the fat guys, at least our fat guys, can't collapse the pocket.

Combine that with the fact that 2 of our "4" in the 2-4 look, are 2 of our most pedestrian defenders - Hawk and Jones... neither of whom can rush the passer to save their lives. So right there, the way Capers uses the personnel - 4 of the 6 players in the front are incapable of generating any pass rush.

There's no shortage of criticism that can be leveled at Capers and the 2-4. Maybe a team like the Niners, who have all-pro personnel throughout their front, can get away with running that alignment, but certainly not the Packers the way Capers runs it.

It has been your main complaint about the alignment.

If there is a risk of pass, such as the San Fran game, you have to have Hawk and Jones in there instead of another lineman and trusting Matthews or Perry to cover. Not to say you could not mix it up, play zone or zone blitz, but putting Matthews regularly in coverage is only using his third best skill.

The problem is that the Packer have more 3 down LBs than 3 down lineman.

[wist43]

I'd be happy with only every 3rd play right now. It seems there's always someone running free somewhere. Not like bad coverage, but just no coverage at all. There's too little pass rush to compensate for the terrible secondary play.

Which brings us back to that static 2-4 look Capers uses up front - pass rush, and the personnel we do have, are why I want more 3-3 fronts in which you can offer infinitely more pass rush scenerios for the offense to be wary of. As it is, that static 2-4 is so predictable, combined with our pedestrian ILB's, that we ususally don't generate much pass rush out of that alignment.

No pass rush, everyone will agree, makes the secondary easy pickins.

It's just another reason not to run Capers version of the 2-4.

[3irty1]

Pretty sure a 3-3 from us would look something like a 2-4 with Perry's hand on the ground. I don't think that's going to get you the infinite pass rushing scenarios you're talking about.

[wist43]

It has been your main complaint about the alignment.

If there is a risk of pass, such as the San Fran game, you have to have Hawk and Jones in there instead of another lineman and trusting Matthews or Perry to cover. Not to say you could not mix it up, play zone or zone blitz, but putting Matthews regularly in coverage is only using his third best skill.

The problem is that the Packer have more 3 down LBs than 3 down lineman.

I don't want Hawk and/or Jones on the field - ever, lol... to be sure, we don't have any 3-down linemen, they're all suited to either base or subpackages - to wit, Capers misuses everyone.

Having such pedestrian ILB's like Hawk and Jones really makes for problems in our defensive front - regardless of whether we are in base or some subpackage. Yet, the Packers like both of those guys, have overpaid them a lot of money, yet they produce no results. When it comes to our ILB's, I readily admit I don't get it at all... they seriously compromise the whole defense regardless what alignment is on the field.

[wist43]

Pretty sure a 3-3 from us would look something like a 2-4 with Perry's hand on the ground. I don't think that's going to get you the infinite pass rushing scenarios you're talking about.

Perry with his hand on the ground is okay... why wouldn't it be?? That's what he does best.

As I've said before, I would look at 3-3 packages that interchange Raji, Daniels, Jones, Perry, and Worthy on the DL; with Matthews, Neal, and Mulumba (Mulumba over either Hawk or Jones) at LB.

Granted that Mulumba couldn't be used much early last season b/c he was so raw, but he's a damn sight more impactful than either Hawk or Jones... the guy actually has upside, as opposed to Hawk and Jones, who are the very definition of pedestrian.

If I'm going to go nickel, I'd much rather have those players on the field together, than the mess that is Capers 2-4 with Hawk and Jones on the field.

As I've said, I missed a lot of last season, so I don't know what potential Barrington has - but one thing is for sure, the Packers should have long since been looking to upgrade at ILB, but TT went the other way and overpaid Jones, and keeps Hawk around. There's no doubt that those 2 guys are weak links and seriously hurt the defense.

[Tony Oday]

Hawk had 118 tackles, 5 sacks, FF and a pick last year. He was good in coverage earlier in the year when the team was healthy and struggled toward the end. Those are good numbers for an ILB in the 3-4.

I know you HAVE to hate Capers and Hawks because if you dont your meds wont work.

[mraynrand]

^^^ Even I have to grudgingly admit Hawk had a pretty good year. I have to give the guy some props for not getting injured as well....

[mraynrand]

Granted that Mulumba couldn't be used much early last season b/c he was so raw, but he's a damn sight more impactful than either Hawk or Jones... the guy actually has upside, as opposed to Hawk and Jones, who are the very definition of pedestrian.

They play different positions. Mulumba takes away snaps from Perry, Matthews and Neal. He only played significant snaps last year out of desperation.

[Tony Oday]

I like Hawk but man that guy has to play balls to the wall and get out of his head, when he reacts he does fine, when he thinks he is less effective than a saran wrap condom.

[mraynrand]

I like Hawk but man that guy has to play balls to the wall and get out of his head, when he reacts he does fine, when he thinks he is less effective than a saran wrap condom.

take it to FYI!! http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26637-Oh-Happy-Day-Breakthrough-Anal-Condom

[wist43]

They play different positions. Mulumba takes away snaps from Perry, Matthews and Neal. He only played significant snaps last year out of desperation.

I know how they used him last year... I would use him as a rover in a 3-3 front, with the other LB's being Matthews and Neal, and the down linemen inside the T's. Of course not exclusively inside the T's, but I would make sure the OL and QB know I'm going to be threatening them up the middle.

Suppose you have a front 6 of: Matthews, D. Jones, Raji/Daniels, Perry/Worthy, Neal and Mulumba/Brad Jones.

With the exception of B. Jones, every one of those guys, their strength is rushing the passer - turn 'em loose. They had Mulumba dropping into zone coverage; Matthews can drop; and you can sprinkle in packages with B.Jones - whose strength is coverage.

It's a much better look than Jones and Hawk both being on the field, and Pickett and Raji on the line. In Capers 2-4, everyone knows that Neal and Matthews are coming upfield; everyone knows that Pickett and Raji won't get any push in the middle; and everyone knows that Hawk and Jones are as pedestrian as they come. Using these guys in this way is complete misuse of personnel.

[Tony Oday]

Hawk and Neal had 5 sacks tied for 3rd on the team. Hawk can get to the QB.

[Fritz]

I like Hawk but man that guy has to play balls to the wall and get out of his head, when he reacts he does fine, when he thinks he is less effective than a saran wrap condom.

You mean . . . Saran Wrap condoms don't work?

Shit.

[Tony Oday]

You mean . . . Saran Wrap condoms don't work?

Shit.

I did say the DONT WORK, they just dont work very well ;)

[mraynrand]

It's a much better look than Jones and Hawk both being on the field, and Pickett and Raji on the line. In Capers 2-4, everyone knows that Neal and Matthews are coming upfield; everyone knows that Pickett and Raji won't get any push in the middle; and everyone knows that Hawk and Jones are as pedestrian as they come. Using these guys in this way is complete misuse of personnel.

I'll say it again: Capers does not run the 2-4 with Raji and Pickett - unless forced to by injury. He started out with D. Jones and Neal, and stayed with that as much as possible. I'll see how it changes due to injury in the 2-4 analysis. Stay tuned.

[Fritz]

If you disagree with a loud shouting guy, you're a homer. I've said this many times. You don't even have to have a counter argument, just call someone out on something stupid they've said and you're instantly a know-nothing homer while the shouting guy is Bellichick 2.0

And now back to the thread. The Lions have signed Daryl Tapp, Vaughn Martin, and have re-signed Brandon Pettigrew for 4 years, 16 mill. Here's a breakdown of the Pettigrew deal:

"According to a report by Aaron Wilson of Ravens Insider, Pettigrew got $8 million in guaranteed salary, including a $4 million signing bonus. His base salary for 2014 will be $1.25 million. His salary cap hit is $2.25 million."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140314/SPORTS0101/303140059#ixzz2vxSh85YU

He can block pretty well, and sometimes makes some nice catches, but seems to drop the ball a lot, especially on third down throws.

Idhegibo, or whatever his name is, seems to be mulling a Lions offer.

They've signed Golden Tate, too, of course. Quite a haul for a cash-strapped team. We'll see if it works out for them.

[ND72]

Hawk and Neal had 5 sacks tied for 3rd on the team. Hawk can get to the QB.

All I know is I show back up, and I see AJ Hawk discussed. That gets me excited. :)

[wist43]

I'll say it again: Capers does not run the 2-4 with Raji and Pickett - unless forced to by injury. He started out with D. Jones and Neal, and stayed with that as much as possible. I'll see how it changes due to injury in the 2-4 analysis. Stay tuned.

You're saying that the "2" in the 2-4 was D.Jones and Neal with their hands on the ground??

As I said, I missed a good chunk of the season, and have never seen that alignment.

Still, I wouldn't want that alignment. I definitely want Daniels and D. Jones as down linemen in my dreamed of 3-3 subpackage. Throw in a 1-gapping Raji, rotate with Worthy and Perry - and I think you have the makings of a pretty good recipe.

Matthews and Neal standing up as constants in the 3 LB subpackage; and rotate Mulumba and B. Jones based on coverage needs/pass rush needs.

In the base, Pickett, Boyd, Jolly, and CJ Wilson. Of course Wilson will be gone - and who knows who the other DL will be next season... but don't waste Raji, D. Jones, and Perry in base - keep them fresh for pass rushing in subpackages.

If most of us like the front seven personnel, but of course don't like the results we've been getting - doesn't it make sense to look at different ways to maximize the abilities of the players that TT has provided??

[mraynrand]

You're saying that the "2" in the 2-4 was D.Jones and Neal with their hands on the ground??

As I said, I missed a good chunk of the season, and have never seen that alignment.


look in the 2-4 thread. they used it most of the time. I suspect when they don't use it, they are changing things up, so teams (especially after seeing tape) won't be able to key on a formation as much.

[SMBASS]

So as far as Green Bay and free agents go, this is the activity that I have noted at the end of the first week:


EXTERNAL FREE AGENTS
Planned visit that was cancelled: Al Woods

Actual visit: Owen Daniels

Visit trying to be scheduled: Vance Walker

PACKER FREE AGENTS
Re-Signed: Shields, Quarless, Neal, Raji

Tendered: Lattimore

Am I missing anything/anybody or is this it?

[Brandon494]

@TomSilverstein 16m

#Packers NT B.J. Raji has accepted a deal to return to Green Bay, according to a source. Expected to be a one-year deal.

[Brandon494]

@TomSilverstein

Raji deal expected to be worth around $4 million. Could be incentives. It means TT has spent $16M in cap space on retaining five of his own.

[Brandon494]

@TomSilverstein

Part of the selling point to Raji was that he would be able to play a true NT position. Was at his best when he did that.

@TomSilverstein

Raji signing leaves the #Packers at about $20 million under the salary cap. Still got EDS, Jones and Kuhn out there.

[Bretsky]

So as far as Green Bay and free agents go, this is the activity that I have noted at the end of the first week:


EXTERNAL FREE AGENTS
Planned visit that was cancelled: Al Woods

Actual visit: Owen Daniels

Visit trying to be scheduled: Vance Walker

PACKER FREE AGENTS
Re-Signed: Shields, Quarless, Neal, Raji

Tendered: Lattimore

Am I missing anything/anybody or is this it?


I don't think we get visits because I speculate TT doesn't offer enough $$$$$
It's been noted, by pb with sources, that agents want to talk parameters of contract before the visits
.....................and then...............they don't come.................

On a sidenote, Jason Tuck mentioned Green Bay as one of three teams that he was considering as a backup plan of Oakland didn't work out.

I would have shit in my pants if we found a way to get Jason Tuck to visit Green Bay

[SMBASS]

I don't think we get visits because I speculate TT doesn't offer enough $$$$$
It's been noted, by pb with sources, that agents want to talk parameters of contract before the visits
.....................and then...............they don't come.................

On a sidenote, Jason Tuck mentioned Green Bay as one of three teams that he was considering as a backup plan of Oakland didn't work out.

I would have shit in my pants if we found a way to get Jason Tuck to visit Green Bay

Yeah, I'm not sure how Tuck would have transitioned to our 3/4 but the dude is a monster and can put some serious heat on the Q.B. when he's in the right system. Hasn't he had some injury issues the last couple of years? (I guess I could look it up but I'm too lazy right now.)

[woodbuck27]

I don't think we get visits because I speculate TT doesn't offer enough $$$$$
It's been noted, by pb with sources, that agents want to talk parameters of contract before the visits
.....................and then...............they don't come.................

On a sidenote, Jason Tuck mentioned Green Bay as one of three teams that he was considering as a backup plan of Oakland didn't work out.

I would have shit in my pants if we found a way to get Jason Tuck to visit Green Bay

I wanted Justin Tuck before the GIANTS drafted him.

We had (instead of Justin Tuck) a pretty solid Safety for a time instead named Nick Collins. We've never been the same since we lost Nick Collins and up until this moment TT hasn't straightened the safety position out. He might do so in the draft in this off season and maybe he won't. You just never know with Ted Thompson.

Recall the draft announcement and TT's pick of S Nick Collins from where!?

Who dat guy!? :-)

[SMBASS]

So as far as Green Bay and free agents go, this is the activity that I have noted at the end of the first week:


EXTERNAL FREE AGENTS
Planned visit that was cancelled: Al Woods

Actual visit: Owen Daniels

PACKER FREE AGENTS
Re-Signed: Shields, Quarless, Neal, Raji

Tendered: Lattimore

Am I missing anything/anybody or is this it?

(Scratch Vance Walker off the: "To visit" list as he signed with the Chiefs today.

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10610087/oakland-raiders-plan-target-matt-schaub-mark-sanchez-qbs-cut


Matt Schaub is Raiders' top target


Updated: March 14, 2014, 8:38 PM ET

[red]

Why does Packers GM Ted Thompson hate free agency?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/why-does-packers-gm-ted-thompson-hate-free-agency--141648137.html

[HarveyWallbangers]

He doesn't hate FAs. He signs his own FAs over other team's FAs. Other teams let their FAs go and replace them with other team's FAs.

[woodbuck27]

Why does Packers GM Ted Thompson hate free agency?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/why-does-packers-gm-ted-thompson-hate-free-agency--141648137.html


http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Packers&Year=2014

Green Bay Packers 2014 Salary Cap

Est. Salary Cap Space: $24,099,451

Offensive Spend:33 players ... $54,478,186

Defensive Spend: 27 players ... $60,144,109

Specials Spend: 3 Players ... $5,476,250



See chart (LINK) for the Roster players cost to the CAP.

[wist43]

He doesn't hate FAs. He signs his own FAs over other team's FAs. Other teams let their FAs go and replace them with other team's FAs.

Yeah, but what good does it do to resign your own, when you're overpaying them??

No way Brad Jones is worth $4 mil/yr; and no way Hawk is worth $5 mil/yr.

Don't think he's really blundered on anybody else though.

Still, assuming Woodbucks numbers are correct - we have $60 mil/yr invested in a defense that is one of the worst in all of football.

Kind of hard to defend that, wouldn't ya say??

[Rutnstrut]

Yeah, but what good does it do to resign your own, when you're overpaying them??

No way Brad Jones is worth $4 mil/yr; and no way Hawk is worth $5 mil/yr.

Don't think he's really blundered on anybody else though.

Still, assuming Woodbucks numbers are correct - we have $60 mil/yr invested in a defense that is one of the worst in all of football.

Kind of hard to defend that, wouldn't ya say??

Jones isn't worth the vet min, Hawk is easily worth 5. They are paying that worthless sack of shit Raji 4 million, and Hawk is a more solid, higher effort player on his worst day than Raji on his best.

[Smidgeon]

You're saying that the "2" in the 2-4 was D.Jones and Neal with their hands on the ground??

As I said, I missed a good chunk of the season, and have never seen that alignment.

Still, I wouldn't want that alignment. I definitely want Daniels and D. Jones as down linemen in my dreamed of 3-3 subpackage. Throw in a 1-gapping Raji, rotate with Worthy and Perry - and I think you have the makings of a pretty good recipe.

Matthews and Neal standing up as constants in the 3 LB subpackage; and rotate Mulumba and B. Jones based on coverage needs/pass rush needs.

In the base, Pickett, Boyd, Jolly, and CJ Wilson. Of course Wilson will be gone - and who knows who the other DL will be next season... but don't waste Raji, D. Jones, and Perry in base - keep them fresh for pass rushing in subpackages.

If most of us like the front seven personnel, but of course don't like the results we've been getting - doesn't it make sense to look at different ways to maximize the abilities of the players that TT has provided??

I like this personnel/alignment as you described.

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflfreeagency

More CB flux as (Tarell) Brown goes to Raiders


Mar 14 8:45 PM ET ... By Bill Williamson | ESPN.com

Bucking the 49ers offer the 49ers Brown instead agreed to a one-year deal worth $3.5 million with the Oakland Raiders.

The 49ers wanted Tarell Brown back but weren't winning to overpay for him.

The 49ers are now looking for Brown's replacement in Seattle free-agent Walter Thurmond, who has the same agent as Brown and considered comparable in talentto Tarell Brown, is visiting the San Fran 49ers today.

[Smeefers]

I like the 3-3 idea. Awhile back I went into a rant about it. I don't believe that there's no use for the 2-4, but I don't think anyone is suggesting just scrapping it.

I suppose the questions to ask are this:
1. Is anyone here happy with the job Dom has done?
2. Are the players free of blame for the poor defensive showings?
3. What would help this defense more, getting rid of capers or scrapping our players?
4. Does Dom have the ability to turn the D around or does he not have the players to do it?

[bobblehead]

Why does Packers GM Ted Thompson hate free agency?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/why-does-packers-gm-ted-thompson-hate-free-agency--141648137.html

Albert Haynesworth, Namdi Asomugha, Adalius Thomas, Chester Mcglockton (2 1st round picks), The "freak" Jevon Kearse, Joe Johnson (hitting close to home), Randel El, Shawn Gilbert (Revis' cousin I think), Larry Brown, Deion Sanders (redskins circuit), Dana Stubblefield ( had to google Redskin busts to remember his name).

that is a good reason to hate FA.

[Bretsky]

There is also good reason to give it a shot; ask Seattle

[3irty1]

There is also good reason to give it a shot; ask Seattle

Do you think we could afford to whiff on Sid Rice? I don't. They were in a unique position to gamble. Wait until their cap catches up with their success and we'll see how cute they get in march.

[call_me_ishmael]

It's frustrating to me because we see teams that most would consider already superior continuing to add players and trying to get better. The Packers, by all accounts, are sitting still and are banking on the development from within. Who is going to step up?

Why don't we ever look at capable guys like Shaun Phillips and his 10 sacks last year on a 1M one-year deal. Why aren't we looking to do stuff like that? Get better but not forfeit the future. It doesn't make any sense to me. It is completely ignoring an entire avenue to get better.

Julius Peppers is going to come cheaper than anybody thinks due to age. This would be an opportunity to take the shot and sign him if they intend to compete for a super bowl.

Sometimes I think the Packers are content with simply making the playoffs and every few years getting a home playoff game. It seems to me that they don't really want to play to win. They just want to be the nice, profitable italian restaurant with good but not great food.

As it stands now... I don't think a single player on the roster has played for another franchise.

[rdanomly]

There is an opportunity cost to bringing in an outside vet. If the FA outperforms the developmental guy already on the roster, then you come out ahead (so to speak) for that season. But it can be at the cost of someone good taking even more time to develop into something better than good.

This is mostly based on an assumption that there isn't a real substitute for playing time in a game as a way of getting better. Practice is important & helps, but what happens on the field matters more.

If you can find a FA that buys into the whole team and can lead (Reggie, Chuck, Harris, etc.), you can bring in those FA vets and they will help make your developmental guys better, while still getting the good performance on the field. I don't know much about personnel, but it does seem that guys like Reggie or Chuck are kinda rare by making other team members better.

It seems like the alternative can often be getting a talented player with motivations other than helping develop the new guy that is going to take your job (talking about the short-term vet signings). And I get that, it isn't the FA's job to train the new guy. But if the team has an internal development approach (like GB), you might be better off letting the new guy take his reps to get better or flame out and know for sure if they can play well for the team.

[KYPack]

It's frustrating to me because we see teams that most would consider already superior continuing to add players and trying to get better. The Packers, by all accounts, are sitting still and are banking on the development from within. Who is going to step up?

Why don't we ever look at capable guys like Shaun Phillips and his 10 sacks last year on a 1M one-year deal. Why aren't we looking to do stuff like that? Get better but not forfeit the future. It doesn't make any sense to me. It is completely ignoring an entire avenue to get better.

Julius Peppers is going to come cheaper than anybody thinks due to age. This would be an opportunity to take the shot and sign him if they intend to compete for a super bowl.

Sometimes I think the Packers are content with simply making the playoffs and every few years getting a home playoff game. It seems to me that they don't really want to play to win. They just want to be the nice, profitable italian restaurant with good but not great food.

As it stands now... I don't think a single player on the roster has played for another franchise.

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

[mraynrand]

Sometimes I think the Packers are content with simply making the playoffs and every few years getting a home playoff game. It seems to me that they don't really want to play to win. They just want to be the nice, profitable italian restaurant with good but not great food.



Winner winner, chicken dinner.


You guys are right. The Packers don't really want to win. The crushing obviousness of the facts you present has finally convinced me.

[mraynrand]

Oh wait...




Julius Peppers is going to come cheaper than anybody thinks due to age. This would be an opportunity to take the shot and sign him if they intend to compete for a super bowl.

Sometimes I think the Packers are content with simply making the playoffs and every few years getting a home playoff game. It seems to me that they don't really want to play to win. They just want to be the nice, profitable italian restaurant with good but not great food.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26669-Peppers-a-Packer

[pbmax]

Julius Peppers is going to come cheaper than anybody thinks due to age. This would be an opportunity to take the shot and sign him if they intend to compete for a super bowl.

I have a feeling about this.

[PlantPage55]

There is also good reason to give it a shot; ask Seattle

It wasn't as integral to Seattle's SB as everyone says it was. More than anything, they drafted insanely well for a few years.

[red]

Do you think we could afford to whiff on Sid Rice? I don't. They were in a unique position to gamble. Wait until their cap catches up with their success and we'll see how cute they get in march.

yes we could, we sit on cap space every year, we could eat a large cap penalty for a year or two

besides, now that they cut rice he's only going to count 2.4 million against their cap

hell, they're talking about re-signing him already

[pbmax]

On Peppers deal, I think this is basically same info from earlier today.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 46m
$7.5M guar / 3 years = $2.5M. $8.5M 1st-year - $7.5 guar = $1M base. $2.5M + $1M = $3.5M in '14. Also depends on structure. RT @isureppin12

[pbmax]

Everyone's jaws hit the ground at the same time.

dré ‏@Andy_Fenelon 2h
BREAKING: USGS confirms 3.9 earthquake this morning actually just an aftershock from Ted Thompson FA signing.

[pbmax]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 3h
Quarless did have an offer from the #Giants and interest elsewhere but playing with Aaron Rodgers a big reason he wanted to stay in GB.

[red]

On Peppers deal, I think this is basically same info from earlier today.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 46m
$7.5M guar / 3 years = $2.5M. $8.5M 1st-year - $7.5 guar = $1M base. $2.5M + $1M = $3.5M in '14. Also depends on structure. RT @isureppin12

it comes down to, is that 7.5 million guaranteed all a signing bonus, or is it a smaller signing bonus, with a year 1 roster bonus?. like say a 3 million dollar signing bonus with a 4.5 million dollar roster bonus.

that would still only make his cap number 6.5 million

then you could cut him if you have to after the year for just a 2 million dollar cap hit

[bobblehead]

There is also good reason to give it a shot; ask Seattle

I give ten examples of teams that hurt their cap and ability to re-sign their own and you answer with one example?

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
The #Seahawks were going to cut Zach Miller. Instead, he stays 2 more years for the chance to make $8M. He will earn a $1.65M roster bonus

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
Don't think so. If he'll come for a reasonable contract... RT @NolanStearns: @RapSheet so is Finley out then as an option for Seattle?

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 56m
The #Patriots and Julian Edelman agreed to terms, per source

[SMBASS]

Ex-Panther Steve Smith signs a 3 yr./11.5M deal with the Baltimore Ravens

[Tony Oday]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 3h
Quarless did have an offer from the #Giants and interest elsewhere but playing with Aaron Rodgers a big reason he wanted to stay in GB.

Ok James Jones do the same :)

[pbmax]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

James Starks to visit Steelers (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/15/james-starks-to-visit-steelers/)

The combo of Lacy and Starks was lethal, even if Mike fell in love too thoroughly with Lacy at times. It makes too much cap, age and depth sense to pay to hang onto Starks if another team wants him badly enough, but he will be missed.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

James Starks to visit Steelers (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/15/james-starks-to-visit-steelers/)

The combo of Lacy and Starks was lethal, even if Mike fell in love too thoroughly with Lacy at times. It makes too much cap, age and depth sense to pay to hang onto Starks if another team wants him badly enough, but he will be missed.

Yeah losing Starks would hurt. You can never have enough depth even with Harris coming back. Plus I think when Starks is healthy he's better than Harris.

[red]

once week 1 rolls around and starks is on the steelers IR and franklin and harris just got done lighting up pre season,you guys won't even remember what color starks was

[red]

Ok James Jones do the same :)

according to jones agent from last week, there is no packer offer on the table for jones to come back to

[Bretsky]

I give ten examples of teams that hurt their cap and ability to re-sign their own and you answer with one example?


I figured I would point out who last year a Super Bowl was won with the aide of free agency. If you 'd like I can point out other Super Bowl winners who won with the aide of free agency as well. It's easy to find free agent busts.
I've said all along it's not a big deal if you slightly overpay; it's a big deal if you miss on the player. So truth be told it would be about as easy for me to point out effective free agent signings....as it was for you to find busts.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

according to jones agent from last week, there is no packer offer on the table for jones to come back to

Which puzzles me

[red]

I figured I would point out who last year a Super Bowl was won with the aide of free agency. If you 'd like I can point out other Super Bowl winners who won with the aide of free agency as well. It's easy to find free agent busts.
I've said all along it's not a big deal if you slightly overpay; it's a big deal if you miss on the player. So truth be told it would be about as easy for me to point out effective free agent signings....as it was for you to find busts.

couldn't you say the final 4 teams last season had key players who were free agent addition?

seattle- you've covered them
denver- manning, don't have to go much farther, but there are others including welker
san fran- ahmad brooks, boldin, justin smith, eric wright
new england- talib, tommy kelly, dan conolly (starting), Kyle Arrington

[Smidgeon]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 3h
Quarless did have an offer from the #Giants and interest elsewhere but playing with Aaron Rodgers a big reason he wanted to stay in GB.

A TE with brains. Weird. :D

[mraynrand]

san fran- ahmad brooks, boldin, justin smith, eric wright

eric wright makes me laugh

[Patler]

according to jones agent from last week, there is no packer offer on the table for jones to come back to


Which puzzles me

Probably depends on what the relationship is with the player and his agent. I can see it being done two ways:

"This is what we will give you. If you can't do better some where else, come back and sign here."
"Go see what the FA market is for you, then come back and lets try to work it out for you to stay here."

They did this with Jones the last time, and it worked out for him to come back to GB. No reason it can't be the same this year.

[pbmax]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000334409/article/executives-crying-foul-over-emmanuel-sanders-deal


While shopping the Chiefs offer to the Bucs, Weinberg never explained that he had already accepted the terms of Kansas City's offer. Later in the night, Sanders' agent had agreed to terms with the Broncos, which is where he is currently headed. Sanders and Weinberg also rankled the 49ers by agreeing to visit, then blowing it off.

Actually, given the players age and the fact that someone other than themselves is doing the negotiating, I am stunned this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Unlike the diverted money deal he was sanctioned for, its hard for teams to stop.

[pbmax]

Probably depends on what the relationship is with the player and his agent. I can see it being done two ways:

"This is what we will give you. If you can't do better some where else, come back and sign here."
"Go see what the FA market is for you, then come back and lets try to work it out for you to stay here."

They did this with Jones the last time, and it worked out for him to come back to GB. No reason it can't be the same this year.

I also suspect Jones contract offer, should there be one, was dependent on a couple of other things happening (or not happening).

Florio swipes back a bit at the anonymous complaining http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/16/report-multiple-teams-miffed-over-emmanuel-sanders-negotiations/

[mraynrand]

....


Price Match Guarantee

We’ll match the price if you buy a qualifying item at Target or CityTarget stores then find the identical item for less in the following week’s Target weekly ad or within seven days at Target.com, Amazon.com, Walmart.com, BestBuy.com, ToysRUs.com, BabiesRUs.com or in a competitor’s local printed ad. Price match may be requested prior to your purchase. Simply bring in proof of the current lower price, your original receipt and we’ll match the price at the Guest Service Desk.

[pbmax]

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 40m
CB Walter Thurmond's 1-year deal with the Giants is worth $3.5M.

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 1h
They want him badly. But it depends on $$, security, etc RT @GMEN10: @RapSheet Good chance Giants can get DRC?

[pbmax]

I also suspect Jones contract offer, should there be one, was dependent on a couple of other things happening (or not happening).

Florio swipes back a bit at the anonymous complaining http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/16/report-multiple-teams-miffed-over-emmanuel-sanders-negotiations/

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 59s
On Sanders RT @adbrandt: Frustrating. Can tell agent "We'll never do business again" reality is if he's got good players, unrealistic to say

[red]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 59s
On Sanders RT @adbrandt: Frustrating. Can tell agent "We'll never do business again" reality is if he's got good players, unrealistic to say

noooooo

according to some of you, agents are honest people, and never do anything shady like this, or telling team B that team A has already offered his client a 6 year 56 million dollar deal with 26 million guaranteed, when its really just a 2 year 17 million dollar deal with just 11.5 actually guaranteed

people said that if they did ever do anything like this, the agent wouldn't be able to work again, but here's an nfl insided saying the same thing i said. if he represents the talent, teams will deal with him, no matter how much of a backstabbing asshole he is

[pbmax]

noooooo

according to some of you, agents are honest people, and never do anything shady like this, or telling team B that team A has already offered his client a 6 year 56 million dollar deal with 26 million guaranteed, when its really just a 2 year 17 million dollar deal with just 11.5 actually guaranteed

people said that if they did ever do anything like this, the agent wouldn't be able to work again, but here's an nfl insided saying the same thing i said. if he represents the talent, teams will deal with him, no matter how much of a backstabbing asshole he is

No, some of us objected to your contention that TT and Russ Ball would get snookered by some big city agent making one kind of guaranteed money sound like it was fully guaranteed money. My contention was that an agent cannot last long misrepresenting the actual numbers in a contract to multiple teams. They know full well how much Tim Jennings deal was fully guaranteed and how much was for injury only, for instance.

This guy was shopping one offer to other teams, which is another matter. A pretty routine matter, I would estimate.

I will say this, if a team DID misunderstand the details or fail to do due diligence, the story might never make it to the papers.

[red]

anyone watch the saints at all to know if they're center is any good?

Brian De La Puente. rotoworld has him listed as the best center still available (2nd best overall)

[Guiness]

I'm going to be interested in how the Steve Smith signing works out for him and the Broncos. He's saying all the right things, and based on his history I think he's being sincere. His latest comments show that he, like Boldin before him, is willing to accept the role that comes his way and take it all gracefully.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/16/steve-smith-sees-himself-as-a-complementary-dude-in-ravens-offense/

I think if his skills don't drop off, he'll have seasons yet to play in this league because he won't let his ego get in the way of dropping down the depth chart, like a Moss or Owens.

[pbmax]

I'm going to be interested in how the Steve Smith signing works out for him and the Broncos. He's saying all the right things, and based on his history I think he's being sincere. His latest comments show that he, like Boldin before him, is willing to accept the role that comes his way and take it all gracefully.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/16/steve-smith-sees-himself-as-a-complementary-dude-in-ravens-offense/

I think if his skills don't drop off, he'll have seasons yet to play in this league because he won't let his ego get in the way of dropping down the depth chart, like a Moss or Owens.

Broncos or Ravens? Not sure its going to work out well for the Broncos unless he DOES go Moss or TO.

[Guiness]

Broncos or Ravens? Not sure its going to work out well for the Broncos unless he DOES go Moss or TO.

nag nag nag...

and all I can do it whine because it's too late to change it

[KYPack]

noooooo

according to some of you, agents are honest people, and never do anything shady like this, or telling team B that team A has already offered his client a 6 year 56 million dollar deal with 26 million guaranteed, when its really just a 2 year 17 million dollar deal with just 11.5 actually guaranteed

people said that if they did ever do anything like this, the agent wouldn't be able to work again, but here's an nfl insided saying the same thing i said. if he represents the talent, teams will deal with him, no matter how much of a backstabbing asshole he is

This guy is an example of a scumbag.

Quote on

Weinberg, a Dallas-based agent, recently was reinstated by the NFL Players Association, which had barred and decertified him in 2003 because it had reportedly found he diverted assets to an offshore account during a dispute with a partner and collected a fee from a client prematurely. Weinberg later filed suit against the NFLPA and its top officials, alleging they illegally took away his certification for eight years, along with past, present and future income of clients.


Weinberg has two clients currently on NFL teams, not including Sanders. He had 42 before he was barred.

While Weinberg broke no laws in accepting a deal, the entire situation infuriated those he dealt with. It is commonly accepted in the league that once two sides agree to a deal -- in writing or in handshake form -- that's the end of the story. Instead, Weinberg's shopping the Chiefs deal and then not informing the Bucs that an agreement had been reached showed another side of the business. A Broncos source said the team had no knowledge of any prior agreements before it agreed to terms with Sanders.

"When a man gives you his words and pulls out," one executive said, "then gives another team your word and pulls out, then gives another team his word ... not proper."

Quote off

A great example of a slimy agent, but he's gone from 42 clients to 3. In time, he will probably be out of the loop.

[KYPack]

anyone watch the saints at all to know if they're center is any good?

Brian De La Puente. rotoworld has him listed as the best center still available (2nd best overall)

Asked my buddy who is a die hard Saints freak.

His description of De la Puente sounded like EDS.

Average to below average in run game.

Good in pass pro, but can get overpowered, good on the gun snap.

Average player with a little upside to him.

So let's sign him, right?

[Carolina_Packer]

Asked my buddy who is a die hard Saints freak.

His description of De la Puente sounded like EDS.

Average to below average in run game.

Good in pass pro, but can get overpowered, good on the gun snap.

Average player with a little upside to him.

So let's sign him, right?

Only if he has a hamstring issue.

[mraynrand]

anyone watch the saints at all to know if they're center is any good?

Brian De La Puente. rotoworld has him listed as the best center still available (2nd best overall)

Get to the point and tell us what you mean.

[red]

Get to the point and tell us what you mean.

he's available, nothing more

and ky answered my question as to whether he's even worth talking about

looks like the answer is , no, he's not

[mraynrand]

he's available, nothing more

and ky answered my question as to whether he's even worth talking about

looks like the answer is , no, he's not

sorry my mistake. I was trying to make a joke. Puente is spanish for 'bridge' not 'point.' That was a total fail :(

[woodbuck27]

Asked my buddy who is a die hard Saints freak.

His description of De la Puente sounded like EDS.

Average to below average in run game.

Good in pass pro, but can get overpowered, good on the gun snap.

Average player with a little upside to him.

So let's sign him, right?


So it seems your posting:

Forget De la Puente......sounds like some kind of Spanish dish.

I'll have the De la Puente with the fish. In fact it translates to "From the bridge".

[woodbuck27]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4242/james-jones

Free agent WR James Jones told ESPN's Josina Anderson that he wants to play for the Panthers.

"I would love the opportunity to play for the Carolina Panthers," said Jones, 30. "I would love to play with Cam (Newton)."

[woodbuck27]

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/285199/report-rex-badly-wants-rodgers-cromartie


The NY Daily News' Manish Mehta reports Jets coach Rex Ryan wants to sign free agent Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie "badly."