WTF: Packers and Raji Close to One Year Deal?

[pbmax]

So says PFT.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/06/report-packers-raji-close-to-one-year-deal/

Based on this:

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/441538770626940928

AdamSchefter @AdamSchefter
Packers and B.J. Raji are close to completing a 1-year deal that will keep the DT in Green Bay and off the free-agent market, per sources.

[red]

yeah, we're already talking about it in the free agent thread

i think TT has lost his god damn mind

if its for 3 or 4 million i guess i could live with it. but man, he's such a bad fit for what we do

watch it be for like 9 or 10 million this year

[pbmax]

Whoops, sorry to jump it. Didn't see it. Must have been looking at non refreshed page.

But I think it deserves its own thread. Let's list the things i was wrong about:

1. Raji has no leverage anywhere, no matter scheme
2. Raji apparently doesn't think fit is wrong with Capers because he could take a one year prove it deal with a lot of other teams
3. Thought Shields would get done before this and that it was more likely both walked than Raji re-signing.

[denverYooper]

Saw that. Cray. The linked JS article (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/248749241.html) implies a chilly reception from the market for (Teach Me How To) Raji.


After Raji's contract season turned sour in 2013, the Packers pulled their offer and determined to let Raji test his market value. His agent, David Dunn, has been able to do that for weeks.

[denverYooper]

This might deserve its own thread. It's pretty big news.

[pbmax]

yeah, we're already talking about it in the free agent thread

i think TT has lost his god damn mind

if its for 3 or 4 million i guess i could live with it. but man, he's such a bad fit for what we do

watch it be for like 9 or 10 million this year

There is a theory, Patler mentioned this, that a player, to truly alter their game and become a complete player, has to be humbled first. He certainly has been humbled. I would be stunned though if this is not a one year deal closet to $8 million than 3-4 million.

Raji was naturally gifted enough to get by for several years, but hasn't grown much. This might provide incentive.

[3irty1]

I'm chatting right now with my friend who works at ESPN Milwaukee and he's telling me its for ~4M. I can dig it. 1 year deal is perfect.

[red]

Whoops, sorry to jump it. Didn't see it. Must have been looking at non refreshed page.

But I think it deserves its own thread. Let's list the things i was wrong about:

1. Raji has no leverage anywhere, no matter scheme
2. Raji apparently doesn't think fit is wrong with Capers because he could take a one year prove it deal with a lot of other teams
3. Thought Shields would get done before this and that it was more likely both walked than Raji re-signing.

yeah it deserves its own thread, but i didn't want to start it because i was too busy being disappointed by the news

i'm still waiting for the real news to come out, that we've offered another team a 1 year payment if they sign raji away from us

[KYPack]

If we keep Raji and lose Shields that means I was 100% wrong about what I thought was going to happen.

That's about par.

Let's sign Pick, Jolly, & Neal.

That'll put us right back where we started, but I'll feel better.

[pbmax]

Saw that. Cray. The linked JS article (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/248749241.html) implies a chilly reception from the market for (Teach Me How To) Raji.

Wow. $4 million. Ted is a thief, of course, that means the market told Raji he was third tier FA. Even second tier guys get multiple years with bonuses.

[red]

I'm chatting right now with my friend who works at ESPN Milwaukee and he's telling me its for ~4M. I can dig it. 1 year deal is perfect.

yeah, thats not horrible at all, easy to live with if it turns out to be the case

[3irty1]

I guess its going down tomorrow.

[red]

is there any chance at all that this could be a sign and trade?

[red]

If we keep Raji and lose Shields that means I was 100% wrong about what I thought was going to happen.

That's about par.

Let's sign Pick, Jolly, & Neal.

That'll put us right back where we started, but I'll feel better.

you and everyone else KY

[pbmax]

This also adds fuel to speculation that Raji went into a midseason funk. Not because Rodgers got hurt, but because his money evaporated.

So then I am left to wonder who the malingerer McCarthy was talking about.

[3irty1]

Ok jesus now I'm hearing 1 year 6.5M. Not sure how I'd feel about that number.

[pbmax]

is there any chance at all that this could be a sign and trade?

Seems unlikely as Raji without a tag, could choose whatever team he wanted by refusing to sing now and waiting a few days. If there was a suitor, he could choose them.

Team has no leverage except that he is apparently not valued highly.

[pbmax]

Ok jesus now I'm hearing 1 year 6.5M. Not sure how I'd feel about that number.

That sounds much more likely. Not as fuel efficient, but far more likely.

[red]

Ok jesus now I'm hearing 1 year 6.5M. Not sure how I'd feel about that number.

nope, that deal sucks. tell your friend he's an asshole

still if its sign and trade, its a 1 year "prove it" deal, but doesn't have to be a prove it to us. and 4 or 6.5 million might be an easy number for another team to take on to see if raji can actually play

[wist43]

Yeah, that is a serious WTF??

Why in the hell would he stay, and such a low-end offer??

[Bossman641]

PFT is reporting 1 year at 4 Mil. Take it for what it's worth

[red]

Seems unlikely as Raji without a tag, could choose whatever team he wanted by refusing to sing now and waiting a few days. If there was a suitor, he could choose them.

Team has no leverage except that he is apparently not valued highly.

true

but if he's not highly valued, why are we offering 4 or 6.5 million?

[3irty1]

4M did seem too good to be true. That's like average starter salary which Raji probably deserves on snap count alone. Sign and trade seems less likely than give him a chance to deserve a tag in 2015 then trade.

[3irty1]

Ok clarification, Wilde is saying 4M. Just said it on his show. Insider who talked to Raji directly says he'll sign at 6.5. Perhaps 2.5 of that is incentive or something?

[mraynrand]

Hope it's 4 mil with incentives to 6.5 or more. Get that lard ass moving.

[red]

pft is saying the team offered him 2 deals, a 1 year and a 2 year deal. they say raji is close to signing the 1 year 4 million dollar deal. could the 6.5 million mentioned have been for a 2 year deal?

they also mention that with M3 saying that he's going to throw all his weight around, that maybe this move is to make raji the full time NT

[Tony Oday]

Pay him decent this time maybe if he is awesome next year he will sign an extension.

[3irty1]

pft is saying the team offered him 2 deals, a 1 year and a 2 year deal. they say raji is close to signing the 1 year 4 million dollar deal. could the 6.5 million mentioned have been for a 2 year deal?

they also mention that with M3 saying that he's going to throw all his weight around, that maybe this move is to make raji the full time NT

My friend says its 1 year 6.5. He doesn't understand the conflicting info either but with only 1 source they can't say 6.5M on the air. I guess Raji will be on the air tomorrow which is when he's guessing the deal will be final.

[pbmax]

Hope it's 4 mil with incentives to 6.5 or more. Get that lard ass moving.

Yeah, I bet its 2.5 million of either incentives or roster bonuses.

Wonder if they talked about the tag next year? Could you even bring it up with straight face?

[Brandon494]

Great deal for both sides.

[call_me_ishmael]

Ok jesus now I'm hearing 1 year 6.5M. Not sure how I'd feel about that number.

You get that radio guys get their information from the same national guys as everyone else, right?

It's not like Mike Wickett calls up Rob McGinn.

There is no inside info here.

[call_me_ishmael]

Gwar. Don't want a squatty ass 6'1" fat midget at NT. I want Justin Harrell-esque 6'5" 320 or bigger. Bring on John Henderson!

Hopefully, Datone Jones and a 6'5"+ end-to-be-named are the starters on the edges.

[3irty1]

You get that radio guys get their information from the same national guys as everyone else, right?

It's not like Mike Wickett calls up Rob McGinn.

There is no inside info here.

Usually. Raji is a guy they have regularly on the air, so in this case that's exactly what happened. They called him.

[red]

Great deal for both sides.

if its 4 million a year i agree, if its 6.5 a year, then IMO raji wins and the team loses. unless overnight he somehow becomes a totally different player compared to what he was the last 2 years

[pbmax]

More on Raji: sounds like 1yr/$4M, with him likely playing NT, not DE:
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/packers-free-agency-2014/2014/3/6/5477158/packers-bj-raji-free-agency-one-year-contract-near

Rapoport is smoking something. Raji hasn't played DE since 2010. Does he mean 3 tech DT?

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
If BJ Raji stays with #Pack, he’d move back to nose tackle from defensive end. That’s what he’d want. If that’s the best deal, he’ll take it

If Raji IS moving to NT full time, what does this mean for Pickett?

[3irty1]

Wilde @jasonjwilde 2m
Per @Haylov0204's #NFL source, Raji intends to sign #Packers' one- year, $4 million offer. Incentives could push value to $6.5 million.

[Striker]

Raji and his agent have to feel mighty silly right now.

[red]

Wilde @jasonjwilde 2m
Per @Haylov0204's #NFL source, Raji intends to sign #Packers' one- year, $4 million offer. Incentives could push value to $6.5 million.

thats a good deal, make him earn it

ifhe's slug like he's been the last two years, we don't lose much

if he can find second gear or thrive in the NT position, then he gets a decent amount of money and a chance at hitting it big next year

[denverYooper]

Yeah, I bet its 2.5 million of either incentives or roster bonuses.

Wonder if they talked about the tag next year? Could you even bring it up with straight face?

They're going to Crosby him.

[3irty1]

How the hell do you measure for incentives to a NT? Stats? Pro-bowl?

[denverYooper]

Rapoport is smoking something. Raji hasn't played DE since 2010. Does he mean 3 tech DT?

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
If BJ Raji stays with #Pack, he’d move back to nose tackle from defensive end. That’s what he’d want. If that’s the best deal, he’ll take it

If Raji IS moving to NT full time, what does this mean for Pickett?

Vet Backup at a modest salary?

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 59m
Seems like there's lots of moving parts with #Packers and Raji. As @BobMcGinn pointed out offer is on table. So far, Raji hasn't accepted.

Leaked by Dunn to generate interest and announce willingness to sign prove it deal? Then spurn offer to sign elsewhere?

[Fritz]

They're going to Crosby him.


Miss wide right?

I'm amazed at the elasticity of Packer fans. GB offered Raji eight mil a year, by most accounts, and at that time most fans would've jumped off a building to think the team was going to lose Raji.

Raji didn't sign - and the team pulled the offer.

But instead of being glad that Raji didn't take the big money offer, or being glad the Pack was smart enough to play tough and withdraw the offer (stupid contracts get signed when teams blink), we're gnashing our teeth about whether it's a 4 mill or 6.5 mill one year deal.

It's a one year deal at a reasonable price for a guy who is sure to be motivated and has been humbled, if not humiliated, by the market.

And for those of you who are going to yammer that the team should've lowballed Raji even further if he was so poorly thought of, I throw back at you (whoever you are) your own complaint that Ted alienates the locker room by throwing insulting offers at players.

It's a damn good move. A motivated Raji fills a need at NT. The team gets an extra year to evaluate and teach up Josh Boyd.

[red]

How the hell do you measure for incentives to a NT? Stats? Pro-bowl?

playing time?

thats about the only reasonable way i can think of

if he plays x percentage of snaps at NT he gets this much

[red]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 59m
Seems like there's lots of moving parts with #Packers and Raji. As @BobMcGinn pointed out offer is on table. So far, Raji hasn't accepted.

Leaked by Dunn to generate interest and announce willingness to sign prove it deal? Then spurn offer to sign elsewhere?

now that makes sense

[Fritz]

And if that comes to pass, we'll bitch that the Packers didn't offer more...

[red]

And if that comes to pass, we'll bitch that the Packers didn't offer more...

i'd rather they offered him less, i'd rather not have him back at any price

to me raji has shown up the last two year and done little more then collect a pay check

james jones on the other hand, busts his ass and talks about how much he wants to stay in green bay, yet by all accounts we haven't even thrown him any kind of offer to stay

[pbmax]

Well, Wilde's guy says he's going to sign it.

Per @Haylov0204's #NFL source, Raji intends to sign #Packers' one- year, $4 million offer. Incentives could push value to $6.5 million.

Steve Haywood is reporting this or ESPN Wisconsin:


An NFL source told ESPNWisconsin.com's Steve Haywood Thursday that Raji intends to accept the Packers' offer and could sign the deal Friday. The deal includes incentives tahat could push the total value of the deal to $6.5 million, with Raji eyeing another chance at unrestricted free agency a year fro now.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/page.php?page_id=278

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 3h
Still trying to find out exactly where BJ Raji and #Packers are in talks. One thing I know: they are trying to sell him on being a true NT.

[Rutnstrut]

This shitbag isn't worth a million a year.

[Tony Oday]

This shitbag isn't worth a million a year.

Sure he is, hell he is worth it just because of one past play! ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLTg007HWuQ

[wist43]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 3h
Still trying to find out exactly where BJ Raji and #Packers are in talks. One thing I know: they are trying to sell him on being a true NT.

Trouble is, he's not a true NT - and never will be.

I love Raji as a player, but b/c he's misused, I hope for his sake that he walks... it's his choice though. We'll see.

[run pMc]

Doubt he walks from $6.5M; not with the other DLs out there and his last two years of film.
if it's 4M with incentives, that's not a terrible deal for either side. GB gets a one year rental on a 330 lb man who can move and will likely be very motivated; Raji gets pretty good money and a chance to prove doubters wrong.

Personally, I hope he signs, absolutely destroys interior OLs, and returns to his 2012 form after signing with SEA for huge money.

[red]

i'm interested in the report that they've agreed to terms but that he won't sign it until tomorrow

why wait?

well tomorrow, i believe, is the first day agents can talk with other teams and get deals worked out before the fenzy of next monday begins. so they could take this deal and shop it to other teams if they want, before signing

[Guiness]

Count me as shocked by this news - I figured he was more all kinds of gone.

The market obviously told this former top 10 pick that he had an overly high view of himself, and his play over the past two years while he waited for the FA payday hurt him after all.

It did seem like he was just putting in time until then, and sulking over how he was being used. Although I do wonder if his high snap count may have had something to do with it. He plays an inordinate number of snaps for a big man.

Am I the only one that thinks even $4m is a little high? That draft position is still affecting his pay scale, if a 5th rounder had turned in a couple of seasons like he did, he'd be looking at a 2yr $4m deal.

I assume the incentives will be snap counts and game day bonuses.

[denverYooper]

i'm interested in the report that they've agreed to terms but that he won't sign it until tomorrow

why wait?

well tomorrow, i believe, is the first day agents can talk with other teams and get deals worked out before the fenzy of next monday begins. so they could take this deal and shop it to other teams if they want, before signing

It could be pending some other check like a physical, but it's pretty unusual for them to agree to terms without following through.

[pbmax]

Count me as shocked by this news - I figured he was more all kinds of gone.

The market obviously told this former top 10 pick that he had an overly high view of himself, and his play over the past two years while he waited for the FA payday hurt him after all.

It did seem like he was just putting in time until then, and sulking over how he was being used. Although I do wonder if his high snap count may have had something to do with it. He plays an inordinate number of snaps for a big man.

Am I the only one that thinks even $4m is a little high? That draft position is still affecting his pay scale, if a 5th rounder had turned in a couple of seasons like he did, he'd be looking at a 2yr $4m deal.

I assume the incentives will be snap counts and game day bonuses.

His snap count went down significantly in 2012 and nose dived this year. I am not sure low counts were helping him.

[Fritz]

Maybe his agent will take this deal on the road and shop it around before he lets Raji sign it.

[QBME]

Maybe his agent will take this deal on the road and shop it around before he lets Raji sign it.

I kind of doubt it. TT's too good of a negotiator - he's offering a number to take Raji off the market, not to shop around. Have to believe it's a time critical offer.

[red]

I kind of doubt it. TT's too good of a negotiator - he's offering a number to take Raji off the market, not to shop around. Have to believe it's a time critical offer.

i disagree

didn't randy moss use us for this exact same thing a few years back? and jennings took our deal and brought it to the queens. hell he might have just given shields a number to shop a couple days ago

looking at some of the deals he's made lately (brad jones, burnett) and some he's tried to make (8 million for the slug raji, shields failure), i wouldn't exactly call him "too" good of a negotiator

[Joemailman]

How the hell do you measure for incentives to a NT? Stats? Pro-bowl?

That's what I was wondering. NT's don't usually have big stats. He's been durable, so it wouldn't be games played.

[Joemailman]

Trouble is, he's not a true NT - and never will be.

I love Raji as a player, but b/c he's misused, I hope for his sake that he walks... it's his choice though. We'll see.

So if he's not a NT, and the Packers shouldn't play so much 2-4, how would you use Raji? 1-Tech?

[Fritz]

If you were one of the many teams who missed the playoffs yet are tight against the cap, you'd call TT a pretty good negotiator. Not William Shatner good, but, y'know, pretty good.

[pbmax]

i disagree

didn't randy moss use us for this exact same thing a few years back? and jennings took our deal and brought it to the queens. hell he might have just given shields a number to shop a couple days ago

looking at some of the deals he's made lately (brad jones, burnett) and some he's tried to make (8 million for the slug raji, shields failure), i wouldn't exactly call him "too" good of a negotiator

At some point you need to make an offer and unlike several car dealerships in the area believe, its still legal to walk out and shop elsewhere armed with that knowledge.

You could say it disappears at midnight on Friday night, but its such a team friendly deal I doubt anyone buys that.

[Fritz]

I for one would be happy to see Raji back on a one year deal.

[Bretsky]

Let's call a spade a spade

The only way Raji signs a deal is if nobody else wants him and values him as being worth it

Raji was near worthless last year

Rather than throwing 4MIL his way, if the market is going to be soft for DL....why don't we spend 2-3MIL more a year on somebody who might really help us ?

Just another train of though

I'm ok to take him back at 4MIL a Year; hell we pay junk that. But much more......I'lll be happy with somebody else

[mraynrand]

^^^ good post. But who can we get for Raji money? Realistically.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I kind of had a feeling we weren't completely done with raji just yet. If I'm Tt I put a deadline for him the sign the deal. Say this offer is on the table only until the start of free agency and then remove the offer. Make him fear getting even less in free agency.

[red]

^^^ good post. But who can we get for Raji money? Realistically.

tyson jackson, and or mount cody. probably both for what we're about to give raji

[mraynrand]

tyson jackson, and or mount cody. probably both for what we're about to give raji

check out this article; looks like Jackson did something last year similar to what Raji is considering this year

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2014/2/20/5429348/kansas-city-chiefs-tyson-jackson-free-agent-2014


The way I look at it is this: Is Jackson a better option than what you've got right now?

His skill-set on early downs is somewhat unique for the Chiefs in that they don't have any obvious candidates to replace him besides Allen Bailey, who has been a sub package player in his time in Kansas City. Sure, they could sign someone or spend a first round pick on a player to replace him. But haven't you had enough defensive linemen in the first round? I know I have.

If you can agree with me that there are no obvious candidates to replace Jackson's production on all downs (a role Bailey traditionally hasn't played), then you can agree that the Chiefs should at least explore bringing Jackson back.

I don't know how much Jackson seeks on the open market. Last year he reportedly took a $10 million straight pay cut to stay with the Chiefs, from $14.7 million to $4.2 million. That tells you that Jackson didn't expect to get more than $4 million on the open market. That number should get you in the ballpark, give or take a million or two per year, of what he could potentially command this year. Even $4 million per year, which is what Mike DeVito makes, might be too much, but these are things you find out by looking into it. (And the Chiefs have surely looked into it either way ... they just didn't tell me what they found out).

The reason I want the Chiefs to explore bringing Jackson back is not so much because Jackson is so good that they must have him back ... it's because they don't have a lot of other options. That's not a very compelling reason to spend lots of money on someone but it just makes me nervous to think that the Chiefs have such a question mark there.

[Bretsky]

^^^ good post. But who can we get for Raji money? Realistically.


I was about the first to pimp Tyson Jackson......did Randy Starks (bobbles guy) ever sign ?
Raji was not productive; I think we can find pluggers. I'd like to find production.
Would Michael Bennett fit in ?

[gbgary]

4m and moving him back to nt...fine.

[woodbuck27]

See post #74 for "the short version" of what I feel about this surprizing move.


Packer fans @ or some Packerrats are excited and or perplexed:

That Green Bay Packer GM Ted Thompson has placed a value on BJ Raji of one half his original offer of $8 million$ or $4 million$ with an incentive added clause with a value of up to an additional $2.5 million$.

A total possible $6.5 million$ offer for a player ( B.J. Raji ) we saw "do next to nothing", as the 2013 season went on".

Add to that the fact that over the course of two seasons B. J. Raji produced zippo ... zero Sacks.

This is clearly stubbornness and EGO driven nonsense on behalf of Ted Thompson. Ted just cannot let go of a player he drafted so high and admit to "the bust label".

So maybe BJ Raji will be moved to NT and Ryan Pickett offered the vet minimum and he'll walk. Why B.J. Raji and NT?

He cannot eat up one block, moreso two blockers. A retention of this lump is more than wishful thinking and use as the Nose Tackle... as a two down DLman.

Here's another prime example of what bugs me about Ted Thompson: Look at Ted Thompson and his fairness policy. BJ Raji gets "stroked" for doing zippo. By the reports I read, WR James Jones and possibly CB Sam Shields (both productive Green Bay Packers) get the message to walk.

What is Green Bay? The farm system for the remainder of the NFL? Green Bay and Ted Thompson "only" keep players that cannot find employment elsewhere. Especially that certainly appears to be the case if that player was a Ted Thompson high draft pick?

is Ted's EGO the Green Bay Packers worst enemy!?

BJ Raji of all UFA's possibly on the move by all reports gets awarded another season of playing ........for what? That doesn't include Ted Thompson's EGO !?

This offer is very possibly $6.5 million$ of CAP space that should be far better weighed and offered to a more productive player (s). Certainly not handed out to a player that was manhandled by the oppositions OL in a contract year.

BJ Raji was awful in 2013. As a parting gift. Ted Thompson has decided he deserves "a $4 million$ guranteee"; possible bonus's adding up to to another $2.5 million$....for "a rental" !?

Ted Thompson proves I'm correct about him again and yet this is worse than I'd ever imagine. It's "All Caps" ... NUT'S !

[woodbuck27]

The short version of my longer post (previous):

This is shocking news!

This is a clear case " of good into bad ".

[wist43]

Spraypainted Hair commits 2 guys to stopping the run, 2!! Usually Raji and Pickett. As I've pointed out, it's not even 2-gapping, it's 2 on 5... and then behind them, we have 2 of the worst starting ILB's in the league, neither of whom can take on a block and shed.

What do you expect of Raji and Pickett?? Capers is asking them to do the impossible, and when they fail, you guys act like it's their fault?? You can't evaluate any of the defensive players, b/c Capers does not put them in positons to be successful - that's the bottom line. Everyone on our defense is a mess.

[bobblehead]

This also adds fuel to speculation that Raji went into a midseason funk. Not because Rodgers got hurt, but because his money evaporated.

So then I am left to wonder who the malingerer McCarthy was talking about.

McMillan? I mean, they did cut him midseason while he was still relatively young.

[bobblehead]

Rapoport is smoking something. Raji hasn't played DE since 2010. Does he mean 3 tech DT?

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
If BJ Raji stays with #Pack, he’d move back to nose tackle from defensive end. That’s what he’d want. If that’s the best deal, he’ll take it

If Raji IS moving to NT full time, what does this mean for Pickett?

To most casual observers (which rapo should NOT be) if you are not the NT in a 3-4 you are a DE.

[bobblehead]

Let's call a spade a spade

The only way Raji signs a deal is if nobody else wants him and values him as being worth it

Raji was near worthless last year

Rather than throwing 4MIL his way, if the market is going to be soft for DL....why don't we spend 2-3MIL more a year on somebody who might really help us ?

Just another train of though

I'm ok to take him back at 4MIL a Year; hell we pay junk that. But much more......I'lll be happy with somebody else

For instance give Randy Starks a 4 year 28 million deal and get me some rice in the process.

[bobblehead]

Spraypainted Hair commits 2 guys to stopping the run, 2!! Usually Raji and Pickett. As I've pointed out, it's not even 2-gapping, it's 2 on 5... and then behind them, we have 2 of the worst starting ILB's in the league, neither of whom can take on a block and shed.

What do you expect of Raji and Pickett?? Capers is asking them to do the impossible, and when they fail, you guys act like it's their fault?? You can't evaluate any of the defensive players, b/c Capers does not put them in positons to be successful - that's the bottom line. Everyone on our defense is a mess.

the 2-4 is legit if you have 2, 2 gap monsters who can collapse the pocket on passing downs...but then if you do that, you better hope your DB's can flood the zones because you sacrifice pass rush speed. I think the 2-4 is viable with the correct personnel, but said talent isn't what we have. As always its on the Dcoord to adapt to what he has, not to what he wishes to run.

[3irty1]

I'd take this one year deal with Raji over giving anything to Terrance Cody in a heartbeat. Raji has at least been productive in the past and has a chance to snap out of it in order to make some money next year. Cody is a worthless blob. Actually he doesn't have the stamina for that. He's a situational worthless blob.

[pbmax]

This is clearly stubbornness and EGO driven nonsense on behalf of Ted Thompson. Ted just cannot let go of a player he drafted so high and admit to "the bust label".

So maybe BJ Raji will be moved to NT and Ryan Pickett offered the vet minimum and he'll walk. Why B.J. Raji and NT?

He cannot eat up one block, moreso two blockers. A retention of this lump is more than wishful thinking and use as the Nose Tackle... as a two down DLman.


He has let plenty of his own draft picks go, including one mid-season last year. He has let them go before their contract was up and when the contract was up. Did I miss Justin Harrell on the roster?

The tell tale sign you are looking for is talent. Raji has played very well before, but not so recently. The hope is that he regains his form.

The other part of this is the number of lineman who are FAs. Someone has to get signed.

[red]

I'd take this one year deal with Raji over giving anything to Terrance Cody in a heartbeat. Raji has at least been productive in the past and has a chance to snap out of it in order to make some money next year. Cody is a worthless blob. Actually he doesn't have the stamina for that. He's a situational worthless blob.

cody might be a worthless often injured blob, but he can do what raji can't do, take on a double team

i'd argue raji is just as worthless of a blob, but can't take on a double team

and he would probably cost a third of what raji is gonna cost

[Teamcheez1]

I don't know, reading JSOnline this morning, they didn't make the Raji signing seem as if it was a done deal.

[red]

thank christ, we might just dodge the bullet here

from rotoworld and JSO




The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reports there are "indications" free agent B.J. Raji will decline the Packers' one-year offer.
According to reporters Tom Silverstein and Bob McGinn, the Pack offered Raji the "options of one- and two-year contracts." They confirm the one-year offer was worth roughly $4 million. Coming off an extremely disappointing season, there's no guarantee Raji will do better in free agency.
Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

[mraynrand]

Spraypainted Hair commits 2 guys to stopping the run, 2!! Usually Raji and Pickett. As I've pointed out, it's not even 2-gapping, it's 2 on 5... and then behind them, we have 2 of the worst starting ILB's in the league, neither of whom can take on a block and shed.


this is untrue. Depending on the particular play, and the run fits, there are 6 or 7 guys playing the run. In the Raji-Picket-Neal 3-4 you have 2-3 Dl and 3-4LBs who are available to defend the run, depending on how you designate Neal. Whether they do it well is a separate issue

[Guiness]

To most casual observers (which rapo should NOT be) if you are not the NT in a 3-4 you are a DE.

Is it time for another 'read this and be smarter' article?

The difference is that if you're lining up 3-tech, you're considered a DT, 5 tech you're a DE, right?

[mraynrand]

the 2-4 is legit if you have 2, 2 gap monsters who can collapse the pocket on passing downs...but then if you do that, you better hope your DB's can flood the zones because you sacrifice pass rush speed. I think the 2-4 is viable with the correct personnel, but said talent isn't what we have. As always its on the Dcoord to adapt to what he has, not to what he wishes to run.

Packers rarely use the fatties in the 2-4 for pass rush. They might be in the largely run downs, but on obvious passing downs, the strategy was to have D. Jones and Neal as the 2 in the 2-4. Then you bring those two Matthews and Perry on the pass rush. The scheme worked reasonably well, but got blown up pretty early by injuries.

[mraynrand]

Is it time for another 'read this and be smarter' article?

The difference is that if you're lining up 3-tech, you're considered a DT, 5 tech you're a DE, right?

in a 3-4, if you are not the NT, you are a DE, by definition. You can then play any damn technique you want I suppose, except 0 or 1, depending on exactly where you line up!

[pbmax]

Is it time for another 'read this and be smarter' article?

The difference is that if you're lining up 3-tech, you're considered a DT, 5 tech you're a DE, right?

I can see how you get end from a 3-4 and not being the nose, but end also has a specific meaning: the end of the line. You have the edge or wide space to defend. Raji never did that. To call him an end is to make the situation more confusing.

Even JSO in the article Red cites says he played both tackle and end. I do not remember him at anything wider than a 3 tech. He was not on a O tackle that I remember.

The other puzzling thing is the move to nose. His isn't a nose tackle. The Packer run D suffered when he started at nose in 2010 (though compared to the last 3 years it was air tight) versus Pickett in 2009. He was specifically moved to that 3 tech in base to get him out from double teams.

However, in Rapoport's defense, Silverstein and McGinn both repeat that McCarthy could be putting Raji there with the expectation that they go lighter and more athletic at end (Jones, Daniels, Boyd, Worthy). So we might be seeing reporting backing up the idea of small, faster more athletic.

[Guiness]

I can see how you get end from a 3-4 and not being the nose, but end also has a specific meaning: the end of the line. You have the edge or wide space to defend. Raji never did that. To call him an end is to make the situation more confusing.

Even JSO in the article Red cites says he played both tackle and end. I do not remember him at anything wider than a 3 tech. He was not on a O tackle that I remember.

The other puzzling thing is the move to nose. His isn't a nose tackle. The Packer run D suffered when he started at nose in 2010 (though compared to the last 3 years it was air tight) versus Pickett in 2009. He was specifically moved to that 3 tech in base to get him out from double teams.

However, in Rapoport's defense, Silverstein and McGinn both repeat that McCarthy could be putting Raji there with the expectation that they go lighter and more athletic at end (Jones, Daniels, Boyd, Worthy). So we might be seeing reporting backing up the idea of small, faster more athletic.

For fear of sounding like Wist, going lighter and more athletic at end + moving a guy to nose who has less of an anchor than Pickett did sounds like a damn disaster.

When you talk about the 'end of the line' do you mean on the O side or D side? Would you automatically call a guy lining up at 3 tech a DT, or does there have to be an LB covering the edge?

[3irty1]

I can see how you get end from a 3-4 and not being the nose, but end also has a specific meaning: the end of the line. You have the edge or wide space to defend. Raji never did that. To call him an end is to make the situation more confusing.

Even JSO in the article Red cites says he played both tackle and end. I do not remember him at anything wider than a 3 tech. He was not on a O tackle that I remember.

The other puzzling thing is the move to nose. His isn't a nose tackle. The Packer run D suffered when he started at nose in 2010 (though compared to the last 3 years it was air tight) versus Pickett in 2009. He was specifically moved to that 3 tech in base to get him out from double teams.

However, in Rapoport's defense, Silverstein and McGinn both repeat that McCarthy could be putting Raji there with the expectation that they go lighter and more athletic at end (Jones, Daniels, Boyd, Worthy). So we might be seeing reporting backing up the idea of small, faster more athletic.

I expect it has as much to do with Daniels as it does with Raji. Daniels is phenomenal, even when everyone around him is not. He's the piece I'd want to build my defense around and moving Raji gives Daniels all the best 3-tech snaps.

[pbmax]

For fear of sounding like Wist, going lighter and more athletic at end + moving a guy to nose who has less of an anchor than Pickett did sounds like a damn disaster.

When you talk about the 'end of the line' do you mean on the O side or D side? Would you automatically call a guy lining up at 3 tech a DT, or does there have to be an LB covering the edge?
I mean end of the line for D, but it applies in a similar manner to each side.

If you are at a 3 tech, you have to have someone outside of you to handle the edge and outside contain. Otherwise teams could just block down on you and face no opposition running off tackle or wide.

In a 3-4, the DE at a 5 tech has the O tackle's gaps, including off tackle. Off tackle could be the edge if there is no TE or back to block further out. The OLB has the edge if there is a TE or back to block, he has wide contain is there is no one else there.

You can have a 3-4 DE at a 4 tech, which is shaded to the inside shoulder of the O Tackle. In that case, the OLB probably has the off tackle stuff, though the DE is supposed to stay strong and square and squeeze that gap to help the Backers.

[wist43]

Guys, we don't run a 3-4... we just don't. Our base defense is the 2-4. We run it more than any other alignment, and we're usually in it on 1st and 10.

That may change depending on opponent - as Capers did the right thing against SF, and did in fact, run a 3-4 most of the game. Not surprisingly, the results were much better; but that has been the exception to the rule. When we do run the 3-4, our defense is much better up front... even with the personnel not being an ideal fit for each position within the 3-4.

[pbmax]

3irty1, where did you get the percentages for D alignments from 2011? Can we buy access to more recent data?

[Fritz]

Red thinks we've dodged a bullet, and if Raji goes, I'm okay with it. But if I had my druthers, Raji, tail between legs, would sign that one year deal and try to be a team player at the NT position this year for the Packers.

[red]

Red thinks we've dodged a bullet, and if Raji goes, I'm okay with it. But if I had my druthers, Raji, tail between legs, would sign that one year deal and try to be a team player at the NT position this year for the Packers.

fritz, if the guy wasn't motivated to give it his all for the team this year, in a contract year, then i don't see him ever giving us anything more then he has

as a NT he would have to take on double teams on every play, and hold his ground. he wasn't able to hold his ground against single teams this year

[Fritz]

I'm hoping a serious dose of humiliation will teach that guy a lesson.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

A one year deal at 4 million is a good deal for both sides. I would be happy if he signed that. He wasn't happy where and how he was told to play and Red is right he probably quit. However, if he's willing to sign a one year deal to recover his rep then I'd be all for it. Even if he doesn't sign the long term deal with us afterwards, if we can get solid play at nt for a year why not? Our dline right now consists of Jones (will he progress?), Boyd (who knows?), Worthy (recovered from injury?), and Daniels. Which is why I brought up even letting go of Williams if we don't keep a good amount of our players. The defense really can't afford to lose talent, esp if its at a decent price.

[red]

well the news was that the the team made the offer and it would be signed today

today is almost over with no signing. meanwhile, raji's agent has probably been working the phones all day with every other team in the nfl

[red]

The defense really can't afford to lose talent, esp if its at a decent price.

i really don't know if we should be paying our bottom of the league defense a whole lot of money

look at it this way, we come pretty close to splitting the cap 50/50 between offense and defense. (57 million for offense/56.6 million for D last season)

should one of the worst defenses in the nfl be making the same kind of money as one of the best offenses? one side of that equation hasn't been earning their take

[3irty1]

3irty1, where did you get the percentages for D alignments from 2011? Can we buy access to more recent data?

That was PFF and it was free. I'm sure 2012 data is available for those with cash.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

i really don't know if we should be paying our bottom of the league defense a whole lot of money


Agreed, which is why I was one of the only ones whose been willing to sign Jones, Cobb, and Nelson all to long term deals. Pay for play right? But if we can get a motivated Raji at half price then sure why not. I'm banking on the motivated Raji part.

[bobblehead]

For fear of sounding like Wist, going lighter and more athletic at end + moving a guy to nose who has less of an anchor than Pickett did sounds like a damn disaster.

When you talk about the 'end of the line' do you mean on the O side or D side? Would you automatically call a guy lining up at 3 tech a DT, or does there have to be an LB covering the edge?

But if you actually play 3 DL are you actually smaller? And he means the O side. If you are lined up at end you have contain. Our 3-4 virtually never has 2 ends in the game together. I am not a defensive guy, and the schemes are definately beyond me at this point, but I would say we generally run without a true NT. Even in base we are using an end to one side with a 3 tech and maybe a 5 tech on the other side, but with an OLB outside of him who is responsible for contain...at least I THINK I understand the scheme about that much anyway.

[bobblehead]

i really don't know if we should be paying our bottom of the league defense a whole lot of money

look at it this way, we come pretty close to splitting the cap 50/50 between offense and defense. (57 million for offense/56.6 million for D last season)

should one of the worst defenses in the nfl be making the same kind of money as one of the best offenses? one side of that equation hasn't been earning their take

That is a great point. We must figure out who we are paying that isn't producing and part ways. There are more "solid" FA's this year than most. Let loose the baggage and bring in the new.

[wist43]

Investing in the defense doesn't make any sense as long as Capers is our DC.

We have a shitload of 1st and 2nd round picks in the front seven, and we have one of the worst front sevens in football - not b/c of talent, or lack thereof, but b/c Capers misuses all of them.

So regardless of what TT brings in, they will be misused by Capers; e.g., it doesn't make any sense to waste resources on that side of the ball. Bum mine in the lower rds and FA, don't resign anybody, and go to a minimum wage defense.

It's either that - or you guys have to admit that TT has missed on all those draft picks?? And if he's missed on just about everyone of those guys - it only stands to reason he will continue to miss, no??

Does anyone know the guy who writes slogans on the fence across from Lambeau?? Maybe we could get him to write - "Fire Capers, please!!!" :)

[Bretsky]

I don't think Raji wants to be here; every indication was he wanted his shot at Free Agency and he turned down what would have been a nightmarish contract for us. Now his agent finds out there is limited interest and he considers a one year deal from us.

I say PASS

[Bretsky]

Investing in the defense doesn't make any sense as long as Capers is our DC.

We have a shitload of 1st and 2nd round picks in the front seven, and we have one of the worst front sevens in football - not b/c of talent, or lack thereof, but b/c Capers misuses all of them.

So regardless of what TT brings in, they will be misused by Capers; e.g., it doesn't make any sense to waste resources on that side of the ball. Bum mine in the lower rds and FA, don't resign anybody, and go to a minimum wage defense.

It's either that - or you guys have to admit that TT has missed on all those draft picks?? And if he's missed on just about everyone of those guys - it only stands to reason he will continue to miss, no??

Does anyone know the guy who writes slogans on the fence across from Lambeau?? Maybe we could get him to write - "Fire Capers, please!!!" :)


I still don't buy into the Dom is Satan theory you have....and you know I'm one of the bottom five guys one would argue is a homer in here
I do think TT has MISSED a ton lately on draft picks.....which is why you use a combo of drafts and free agency in case you MISS
John Schneider, anyone ????

You can't deny the incompetence we have at safety. And regardless of how much you hate DOM....you have to admit upgrading from crap like Just a Jag Jones or whoever our #2 safety was last year would be huge regardless of the coordinator

[wist43]

I still don't buy into the Dom is Satan theory you have....and you know I'm one of the bottom five guys one would argue is a homer in here
I do think TT has MISSED a ton lately on draft picks.....which is why you use a combo of drafts and free agency in case you MISS
John Schneider, anyone ????

You can't deny the incompetence we have at safety. And regardless of how much you hate DOM....you have to admit upgrading from crap like Just a Jag Jones or whoever our #2 safety was last year would be huge regardless of the coordinator

See, that's just it - I don't think TT has missed on the draft picks. They just aren't good fits for a 3-4.

So logically, if I don't think TT has missed on those players, yet our results are dismal and worse, there has to be blame somewhere. Sun Tzu would immediately look at the General who is calling the shots.

I like just about all those players... I like Jones well enough (didn't want him b/c he isn't a good fit); liked Daniels coming out, but said he needed to be used properly; Raji same thing; Perry is definitely being misused - to the point that he really shouldn't even be on the field. The others have had injury problems, but Hawk was a miss - I thought he would at least not be a complete bust, even though I didn't want him at #5; of course Jones was overpaid and shouldn't have been resigned.

In general, I like the talent okay... but from the start have argued that you can't play them in a std 3-4 alignment. Worse is trying to get them to fit into a 2-4. Of course we've seen that the results have been dismal. By the rules of the Art of War, the blame has to be laid at the feet of the General - who is Capers.

[Bretsky]

See, that's just it - I don't think TT has missed on the draft picks. They just aren't good fits for a 3-4.

So logically, if I don't think TT has missed on those players, yet our results are dismal and worse, there has to be blame somewhere. Sun Tzu would immediately look at the General who is calling the shots.

I like just about all those players... I like Jones well enough (didn't want him b/c he isn't a good fit); liked Daniels coming out, but said he needed to be used properly; Raji same thing; Perry is definitely being misused - to the point that he really shouldn't even be on the field. The others have had injury problems, but Hawk was a miss - I thought he would at least not be a complete bust, even though I didn't want him at #5; of course Jones was overpaid and shouldn't have been resigned.

In general, I like the talent okay... but from the start have argued that you can't play them in a std 3-4 alignment. Worse is trying to get them to fit into a 2-4. Of course we've seen that the results have been dismal. By the rules of the Art of War, the blame has to be laid at the feet of the General - who is Capers.

DOM Capers has brought in the 3=4 defense and it's had a run of being good
The GM would NOT admit that the players he drafted were not good fits for the 3-4
It was glaringly obvious a guy like Nick Perry was miscast in this defense but TT still picked him figuring he'd be just fine
If the GM is drafting buys who obviously don't fit a defense why is that on the coach ?
Also, the cluelessness of the secondary with the mental mistakes has made it painfully obvious we need more veterans back there with this defense....as others like pb have brought up
To me that is not all DOM

Don't get me wrong here; I supported a change at DC....but I still think DOM is average.......but with that being said, our GM has f'cked up some lately and could be better

[Bretsky]

TT knows what offense and what defense we are running. We're not drafting offensive players who are horrid fits in the system. Ditto for defense. Need players that fit into the system.
If we are brining in players who don't fit the coaching goals of what we are trying to do that is on the GM IMO

[mraynrand]

listening to Wist is like watching the movie 'Nebraska' - Bruce Dern is Capers and Wist is his wife.

[3irty1]

Wist's hate of Dom runs deeeeeeeeep. Remember when he started a thread called "Fire Capers" after the 2010 Cardinals playoff game? Anyways I can't buy the "pin it all on Dom" theory as it makes too many assumptions. For a player to be classified as misused, they have to first succeed while being used differently. College schemes don't count either because those projections are subject to a very high nfl-wide bust rate, particularly in the front 7. I believe that leaves nobody to be called "misused" without a side of baseless assumption. Not saying its never the case, just saying that its a lot more likely that it takes everyone sucking together to make the 10th or whatever defense fall to the 25th in a matter of weeks and the red-faced bar rants about Capers are just much needed forum fuel.

Actually I changed my mind, here's a thought: What if Dom is really giving our players date rape drugs and pulling their hamstrings in order to never run out of injury excuses and keep his job forever? What if he's a Bears double agent and saboteur????!!!!

[KYPack]

Deep hate is good.

I tried for years to hate Tank as much as Wist hates Dom.

But....

I failed.

[mraynrand]

here's a thought: What if Dom is really giving our players date rape drugs and pulling their hamstrings in order to never run out of injury excuses and keep his job forever? What if he's a Bears double agent and saboteur????!!!!

That's about as likely as Dom going from a terrible coach in 2009, to a great coach in 2010 back to a terrible coach in 2011. I'd hate to think it's more changes in personnel than Dom, because then I might have to engage in rational analysis.

[mraynrand]

Deep hate is good.

I tried for years to hate Tank as much as Wist hates Dom.

But....

I failed.

let go your hate

[red]

PULL THE OFFER TED, PULL THE OFFER

yesterday has come on gone and he didn't sign, he is now shopping the offer, trying to get away

pull the rug out from under the fat lazy bastard

[pbmax]

PULL THE OFFER TED, PULL THE OFFER

yesterday has come on gone and he didn't sign, he is now shopping the offer, trying to get away

pull the rug out from under the fat lazy bastard

For what its worth red, according to Wilde, public opinion is with you. So if Murphy or T2 are answering their phones your work may not be in vain.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Or better yet put a deadline on it. Pressure him to make a decision and gamble losing even more money. Give him the weekend and then pull the offer.

[wist43]

From the second we hired Capers I've said he has it in him to be a good coach - but I don't trust him. I didn't trust him when we hired him, and I don't trust him now.

He is perfectly capable of engineering a good game plan - the last 49er game is an example of him actually not totally sucking. He played more straight up 3-4, and we held our own against the Niners - and that is with personnel that aren't a good fit for the 3-4.

So I have no doubt Capers could get the job done - if he wakes up that morning and his head isn't up his ass. Problem is, he wakes up most mornings with his head up his ass, and we end up with idiotic game plans. Capers cannot be trusted - from day one he couldn't be trusted.

There's a reason he lasts 5 years in one place, and then gets fired... unfortunately TT and MM are a little slow on the uptake, and then didn't fire Capers when he clearly should have been fired.

[wist43]

Wist's hate of Dom runs deeeeeeeeep. Remember when he started a thread called "Fire Capers" after the 2010 Cardinals playoff game? Anyways I can't buy the "pin it all on Dom" theory as it makes too many assumptions. For a player to be classified as misused, they have to first succeed while being used differently. College schemes don't count either because those projections are subject to a very high nfl-wide bust rate, particularly in the front 7. I believe that leaves nobody to be called "misused" without a side of baseless assumption. Not saying its never the case, just saying that its a lot more likely that it takes everyone sucking together to make the 10th or whatever defense fall to the 25th in a matter of weeks and the red-faced bar rants about Capers are just much needed forum fuel.

Actually I changed my mind, here's a thought: What if Dom is really giving our players date rape drugs and pulling their hamstrings in order to never run out of injury excuses and keep his job forever? What if he's a Bears double agent and saboteur????!!!!

They're misused b/c of their skill set - we can all see what they do well, and what they don't do well.

Perry is useless in space - yet Capers tries to play him space; Raji is useless as a 2-gapper, yet Capers tries to play him as a 2-gapper; Daniels and Jones haven't been misused - perhaps b/c their skill sets are soooooo miscast in the 3-4 that even an idiot like Capers can see it. Then there is the 2-4 itself - we are mind numbingly weak at MLB; yet Spraypainted Hair devises game plans in which 2 of our weakest players never come off the field??

All of that reeks of misuse. TT may have drafted players miscast for a 3-4, but Capers certainly had to have some input in those picks, and Capers is responsible for making the best out of what is available to him.

I do place blame on TT - but I place the majority of the blame on Capers - and rightly so. The General on the field ultimately has the responsibility.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I brought Sun Tzu up - consider his tactics against the superior forces of Chu. He never attacks directly - it would be foolish, he would be wiped out. Chu fields a 10-1 advantage in personnel. He has to find another way.

When Chu threatens the Cai province, an ally of Wu - Sun Tzu and his meager army are all that stands in the way of Cai being destroyed. Sun Tzu does not attack directly, rather he shows himself to the enemy - and then runs. Nong Wa, the commander of the Chu forces never figues Sun Tzu out - he is drunk with arrogance b/c his forces are so superior. When he sees Sun Tzu run he abandons his attack on Cai, and gives chase to Sun Tzu. Thus Sun Tzu has saved Cai without a single battle.

Now with Nong Wa in hot pursuit - Sun Tzu does the unthinkable, he splits his forces, and leaves part of his army behind. Nong Wa thinks he can make quick work of the part of Sun Tzu's army that is left behind - but what he doesn't realize, is that he has been manuevered out of position to defend his homeland, and now Sun Tzu's army that stayed on the move is heading straight for the Chu capital.

Nong Wa now realizes what Sun Tzu is doing, and breaks off the chase with the part of the army that was left behind, and takes off after Sun Tzu. But Sun Tzu never has any intention of attacking the capital, he is just moving pieces on the board to manuever Nong Wa into a trap. As Nong Wa gives chase, the part of Sun Tzu's army that he left behind, follows behind Nong Wa. Sun Tzu stops his advance on ground that is favorable to attacking the enemy coming up behind him - and that is where he chooses to fight. Sun Tzu's forces coming up behind Nong Wa now trap him between Sun Tzu's forces.

The army of Chu - outnumbering Sun Tzu's forces 10-1, is wiped out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The point is - there is always a way. You use what you have. Attack what is weak, avoid what is strong. Use your enemies superior strength against him. Capers doesn't do this... he does not use what he is given to the best of their ability. Raji should not be playing as a 2-gap; Hawk and Jones should not be on the field as much as they are; he should never be employing the 2-4; Perry should only be used in pass rush situations from a down lineman position; etc.

Capers does none of these things - hence, he is misusing his resources.

[Fritz]

Fuggit. Fire Capers, hire somebody who runs an aggressive 4-3.

[Smeefers]

My thoughts;

1. Is there a source somewhere saying that Raji is going to be put at NT or is that just speculation here on the Rats?
2. Incentives for a DE and NT are easy. Sacks and tackles. The numbers don't have to be high to reach modest incentives. Just like with crosby, one of his incentives was basically just being on the team 6 weeks in or something along those lines.
3. Is wist the only one who thinks we run a 2-4? Technically we don't. The 2-4 is just a sub package, regardless of how often you run it. The definition isn't the same on defense as it is on offense. You can be a zone blocking team who occasionally runs power, but if you're pulling guards left and right and lining up in the I formation on a regular basis, there's no way you're running a zone scheme. On D though, it's all personnel. You play to what's on the field. I'll admit there's times where I don't understand why we run the 2-4 so much, but we can run that psycho bullshit all game long and still be a 3-4. It's a definition, not a subjective. I've read the arguments and they're persuasive, but in the end they're talking about scheme, not defensive style.
4. How is TT signing Raji bad? I know he's played poorly, but are people here saying that he doesn't have any talent or potential? This is a great signing. This isn't Finley getting paid way more than he was worth the last couple seasons. This is getting a prospect for a song.

[pbmax]

The Nose Tackle move was reported by Ian Rapoport and JSO separately, unless JSO is just not crediting sources. However, both outlets could be quoting Raji's agent who could have a motive for saying this beyond the schematic adjustment the Packers are planning.


One of the selling points the Packers are using to get Raji to accept their offer is a return to a true nose tackle position, one source said. Raji has played a lot of end and three-technique, the latter a defensive tackle position used mostly in 4-3 defenses.

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/defensive-lineman-bj-raji-weighs-low-dollar-short-term-offer-b99219814z1-248939381.html#ixzz2vP6ryCPX
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

AND

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet Mar 6
If BJ Raji stays with #Pack, he’d move back to nose tackle from defensive end. That’s what he’d want. If that’s the best deal, he’ll take it

[Fritz]

Surely someone will bite on a BJ.And someone will get hurt.

He has talent. That's not an issue. And big talented bodies are hard to find.

[Patler]

Surely someone will bite on a BJ.And someone will get hurt.

He has talent. That's not an issue. And big talented bodies are hard to find.

A big, talented body served Albert Haynesworth very well in free agency, the Redskins who signed him, not so much.

[denverYooper]

Surely someone will bite on a BJ.And someone will get hurt.

He has talent. That's not an issue. And big talented bodies are hard to find.

You obviously haven't done a google search for "Big Saggy Naturals".

This post will drive up PR's hits by 23%.

[Fritz]

A big, talented body served Albert Haynesworth very well in free agency, the Redskins who signed him, not so much.

How true that is.

I'm not suggesting the Packers should sign him to a big contract. Just that if he's served a heaping helping of humble pie in free agency, I'd like to see the Pack sign him to that one year deal.

Humiliation can be a sharp teaching tool.

[red]

i really don't know if we should be paying our bottom of the league defense a whole lot of money

look at it this way, we come pretty close to splitting the cap 50/50 between offense and defense. (57 million for offense/56.6 million for D last season)

should one of the worst defenses in the nfl be making the same kind of money as one of the best offenses? one side of that equation hasn't been earning their take

and as of right now, with shields new deal, our defense counts more against the 2014 cap them our offense does

53.5 for offense, about 56 for defence

[mraynrand]

3. Is wist the only one who thinks we run a 2-4? Technically we don't. The 2-4 is just a sub package, regardless of how often you run it. The definition isn't the same on defense as it is on offense. You can be a zone blocking team who occasionally runs power, but if you're pulling guards left and right and lining up in the I formation on a regular basis, there's no way you're running a zone scheme. On D though, it's all personnel. You play to what's on the field. I'll admit there's times where I don't understand why we run the 2-4 so much, but we can run that psycho bullshit all game long and still be a 3-4. It's a definition, not a subjective. I've read the arguments and they're persuasive, but in the end they're talking about scheme, not defensive style.

There's a rumor that some incarcerated bastard is running the numbers on the 2-4

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26640-Caper-s-Crusader-Analysis-of-the-2-4-alignment-and-other-tidbits

[Teamcheez1]

I'm guessing Raji is really pissed about now, seeing Shields garner at least $10M a year, and he has been offered the table scraps he deserves. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he took the same contract or less elsewhere just to leave the organization and his damaged pride behind.

[red]

I'm guessing Raji is really pissed about now, seeing Shields garner at least $10M a year, and he has been offered the table scraps he deserves. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he took the same contract or less elsewhere just to leave the organization and his damaged pride behind.

good, then we all win

except raji, who is a fat lazy loser

but fuck him

[denverYooper]

good, then we all win

except raji, who is a fat lazy loser

but fuck him

He had his chance at Uncle Ted's pocketbook. Now all he gets is a small shot at redemption.

[Smeefers]

good, then we all win

except raji, who is a fat lazy loser

but fuck him

I'd be happy with the one year deal. I think that gives us the best option to get the absolute best out of Raji. If he still sucks, then it's a no brainer cut.

[woodbuck27]

Ohh BJ !?

What are you gonna do when they come for you?

[red]

I'd be happy with the one year deal. I think that gives us the best option to get the absolute best out of Raji. If he still sucks, then it's a no brainer cut.

we just got the best out of him, he was in a contract year, the year almost every player throughout history has played their best ball

[Smeefers]

we just got the best out of him, he was in a contract year, the year almost every player throughout history has played their best ball

Last year was far from the best that Raji can put out. This is all speculation but, he thought he had his ticket bought. Someone was going to give him good cash for his past performances, ignoring how horrible he did, knowing that he just didn't fit in our system. What he failed to realize is that other teams consider effort to be the biggest factor in whether or not you're going to pay a guy. Mathews might have a down year, but the dude is trying to win the game on every snap and that's the type of player people want on their team. Now that he understands that, I believe he's going to return to his game changing ways. If not, it's only a year contract so no harm.

[woodbuck27]

Last year was far from the best that Raji can put out. This is all speculation but, he thought he had his ticket bought. Someone was going to give him good cash for his past performances, ignoring how horrible he did, knowing that he just didn't fit in our system. What he failed to realize is that other teams consider effort to be the biggest factor in whether or not you're going to pay a guy. Mathews might have a down year, but the dude is trying to win the game on every snap and that's the type of player people want on their team. Now that he understands that, I believe he's going to return to his game changing ways. If not, it's only a year contract so no harm.

BJ Raji did nothing for us last year.

How much will TT pay for him to do nothing this season?

The bottom line's now set at approx. $6.5 Million ($4 million plus $2.5 million bonus incentives) and which arms BJ Raji for a price on him maybe? elsewhere. In any case it all looks like a one year rental to me. So if that's the case, why retain him?

[pbmax]

Last year was far from the best that Raji can put out. This is all speculation but, he thought he had his ticket bought. Someone was going to give him good cash for his past performances, ignoring how horrible he did, knowing that he just didn't fit in our system. What he failed to realize is that other teams consider effort to be the biggest factor in whether or not you're going to pay a guy. Mathews might have a down year, but the dude is trying to win the game on every snap and that's the type of player people want on their team. Now that he understands that, I believe he's going to return to his game changing ways. If not, it's only a year contract so no harm.

I thought a version of this. He was certain to get paid and he was therefore happy to do exactly what he was asked by coaches and scheme and nothing more. The slackers approach to being a company man.

[mraynrand]

I thought a version of this. He was certain to get paid and he was therefore happy to do exactly what he was asked by coaches and scheme and nothing more. The slackers approach to being a company man.

Where's the motivation? If he worked harder, he doesn't see another dime. Well, Bob, that makes you work just hard enough not to get fired.

[pbmax]

Where's the motivation? If he worked harder, he doesn't see another dime. Well, Bob, that makes you work just hard enough not to get fired.

If I am right, and I kinda hope I am not, it calls into question his judgement AND his prospects after his next deal.

[denverYooper]

Where's the motivation? If he worked harder, he doesn't see another dime. Well, Bob, that makes you work just hard enough not to get fired.

I can tell you're a real straight shooter with upper management potential.

[denverYooper]

If I am right, and I kinda hope I am not, it calls into question his judgement AND his prospects after his next deal.

Those who know him best were lukewarm on these traits as well. They were willing to offer him a chance to redeem himself at a team-friendly price, and that was it. The fact that they took a multi-year deal of 8m per off of the table and replaced it with a 1 year 4m (+incentives) offer speaks volumes.

[woodbuck27]

Those who know him best were lukewarm on these traits as well. They were willing to offer him a chance to redeem himself at a team-friendly price, and that was it. The fact that they took a multi-year deal of 8m per off of the table and replaced it with a 1 year 4m (+incentives) offer speaks volumes.

Maybe to BJ Raji's ego that's a lot like rubbing salt in a wound.

I see no reason to keep any player that is thinking playing in the NFL with any other team.

The last thing TT should stand for is:

" OK I'll take the $4 Million plus 2.5 million$ incentive as no other team offered more. "

TT should have given BJ Raji a limited time offer at the reduction and after that ... good luck. Members here point to B. J. Raji's size; but that man was easily man handled last season.

[Zool]

I can tell you're a real straight shooter with upper management potential.

You've been missing a lot of work lately BJ

[Guiness]

Looks like this announcement was a little premature, and Raji wants to wait until at least Tuesday to see if another offer comes across.

I wonder if there is still a Packer's offer on the table?

[mraynrand]

Looks like this announcement was a little premature, and Raji wants to wait until at least Tuesday to see if another offer comes across.

I wonder if there is still a Packer's offer on the table?

http://www.psychalive.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Red-Pill-Blue-Pill.jpg

[bobblehead]

Maybe to BJ Raji's ego that's a lot like rubbing salt in a wound.

I see no reason to keep any player that is thinking playing in the NFL with any other team.

The last thing TT should stand for is:

" OK I'll take the $4 Million plus 2.5 million$ incentive as no other team offered more. "

TT should have given BJ Raji a limited time offer at the reduction and after that ... good luck. Members here point to B. J. Raji's size; but that man was easily man handled last season.

Unless of course TT thinks BJ is worth every penny of 4mill plus incentive. Then if he put a timer on it, it would be TT's ego getting in the way.

[woodbuck27]

Unless of course TT thinks BJ is worth every penny of 4mill plus incentive. Then if he put a timer on it, it would be TT's ego getting in the way.

Touche. :-)

[red]

lots of guys getting all kinds of action today, one name not being mentioned at all is BJ raji

no one wants a lazy fat ass who just quits on his team

[woodbuck27]

lots of guys getting all kinds of action today, one name not being mentioned at all is BJ raji

no one wants a lazy fat ass who just quits on his team

Wouldn't it be something if his FA bid stalls and he has to take TT's one year offer of approx. $4 Million$.

if it was me as GM and it got down to that I'd give him Dick All now. my last one year offer would have a time limit of 48 hours on it; and outside of that "bye bye to $4 million$ as it would have to be considerably less to NOTHING.

Now BJ Raji ...bank that ... sucker.

[denverYooper]

Still waiting.

[mraynrand]

This is starting to remind of the used car salesman bit. You know that guy who tells you he has someone else 'very interested' in the car you want. You walk away, but then a week later, you see that same car on the lot. Maybe you don't really want it so much anymore, even if you can get it for your original offer - or even less. Wonder if TT is consulting with DuJuan Harris....

[red]

Still waiting.

nothing at all. you go through that cbs free agent tracker and they talk about almost everyone else having interest from certain teams

except raji, there's nothing. no interest, no talks, nothing

[Guiness]

Looks like our general feelings about Raji, that opinion of him around the league has soured, were right; or he is still asking for the $8m and GMs are hanging up immediately.

[denverYooper]

Looks like our general feelings about Raji, that opinion of him around the league has soured, were right; or he is still asking for the $8m and GMs are hanging up immediately.

I'd wager that no one has offered him more than $4m.

[denverYooper]

nothing at all. you go through that cbs free agent tracker and they talk about almost everyone else having interest from certain teams

except raji, there's nothing. no interest, no talks, nothing

The only sound you can hear is his money going down the drain.

[Joemailman]

Hearing nothing from Raji. Did anyone tell him the season is over?

[red]

The only sound you can hear is his money going down the drain.

he's gonna have to start ordering off the dollar menu, like the rest of us

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

He better be careful because it won't be long before TT pulls his 4 million offer if no one is interested in him.

[mraynrand]

He better be careful because it won't be long before TT pulls his 4 million offer if no one is interested in him.

that 1998 Dodge Intrepid is looking better and better every day. PRICED TO SELL! ONE OWNER! LOW MILEAGE!

[mraynrand]

NEW TIRES!

[red]

well, lets say we sign this guy from the steelers that coming in tomorrow, and maybe jolly, wilson and or pickett

do we still even want or need raji?

does the offer then get pulled? i would think so

[mraynrand]

well, lets say we sign this guy from the steelers that coming in tomorrow, and maybe jolly, wilson and or pickett

do we still even want or need raji?

does the offer then get pulled? i would think so

Sim sim Salabim! I will play for the veteran Min!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BYesjqnz7i8/TYmV95XnIwI/AAAAAAAAIG0/yspJS8-_FC8/s1600/HADJI.png

[Joemailman]

well, lets say we sign this guy from the steelers that coming in tomorrow, and maybe jolly, wilson and or pickett

do we still even want or need raji?

does the offer then get pulled? i would think so

Woods has signed with Tennessee. Raji is still in the picture. And maybe getting a really clear look at how much his status has fallen based on his play this past year.

[Teamcheez1]

Beyond the lackluster play, lower salary offer, and desire to play elsewhere, I wonder if the Packer offer contains very little guaranteed money? In other words, if Raji doesn't show us something in training camp, we can still cut him with no real money loss. That could be part of his hesitancy to sign the offer.

[SMBASS]

Beyond the lackluster play, lower salary offer, and desire to play elsewhere, I wonder if the Packer offer contains very little guaranteed money? In other words, if Raji doesn't show us something in training camp, we can still cut him with no real money loss. That could be part of his hesitancy to sign the offer.

Good point Teamcheez. It's going to be interesting to see how this whole Raji saga ends up playing out.

[mraynrand]

MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!

[Fritz]

Has anybody heard if any NFL team has even sniffed at Raji yet?

Hopefully he's getting a severe dose of reality right about now.

[denverYooper]

WI Sports Blog ‏@WISportsBlog 1m
Seneca Wallace says BJ Raji was re-signed by the Packers.....did I miss something?

[red]

WI Sports Blog ‏@WISportsBlog 1m
Seneca Wallace says BJ Raji was re-signed by the Packers.....did I miss something?

he said that real quick on nfln. he said they've resigned raji, neal and shields and are trying to get jordy done

he could have just seen the reports last week that raji was about to resign and figured he signed.

its not like the guy (wallace) has been around the team much, if at all since his injury. he said he watched the bears game on TV at a wedding he was at

he also mentioned he's had talks with the team about a new deal

[red]

Has anybody heard if any NFL team has even sniffed at Raji yet?

Hopefully he's getting a severe dose of reality right about now.

maybe the raiders, how fitting

http://justblogbaby.com/2014/03/11/2014-nfl-free-agency-raiders-interested-bj-raji-per-nfl-network/

[denverYooper]

he said that real quick on nfln. he said they've resigned raji, neal and shields and are trying to get jordy done

he could have just seen the reports last week that raji was about to resign and figured he signed.

its not like the guy (wallace) has been around the team much, if at all since his injury. he said he watched the bears game on TV at a wedding he was at

he also mentioned he's had talks with the team about a new deal

Yeah. I'm assuming the quality of the source was questionable.

[mraynrand]

THIS WEEK ONLY!!!

[mraynrand]

Still waiting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM-6KLbXwgA

[denverYooper]

NO CREDIT? BAD CREDIT? NO PROBLEM!!

[woodbuck27]

Beyond the lackluster play, lower salary offer, and desire to play elsewhere, I wonder if the Packer offer contains very little guaranteed money? In other words, if Raji doesn't show us something in training camp, we can still cut him with no real money loss. That could be part of his hesitancy to sign the offer.

I think it's all delusion and EGO and BJ Raji.

I hope some team makes a mistake and signs that quitter...before TT makes another error and allows him to stink up the joint again next season.

BJ Raji's "NO" play last season was simply disgusting. That TT even made him an offer was plainly wrong.

[woodbuck27]

maybe the raiders, how fitting

http://justblogbaby.com/2014/03/11/2014-nfl-free-agency-raiders-interested-bj-raji-per-nfl-network/

Isn't Reggie McKenzie in enough shit?

Please Reggie sign... BJ Raji. PLEASE !

[Brandon494]

@TomSilverstein 16m

#Packers NT B.J. Raji has accepted a deal to return to Green Bay, according to a source. Expected to be a one-year deal.

[Zool]

Beginagain

[woodbuck27]

Finger down throat reaction.

A damn waste of good CAP space.

[mraynrand]

Pour some HEET in the tank, Get a new coat from Earl Scheib, wax that sucker up, hang some fuzzy dice, mag wheels and detail it. Add some inspiration (some carrot, not all stick!), and Raji should be ready to go....


http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/07/39/05/28/0007390528201_500X500.jpg
http://ontheoutsidecorner.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/scheib.jpg
http://demos.appthemes.com/flannel/files/2012/12/548286.jpg
http://image.lowridermagazine.com/f/features/1205_lrmp_1977_ford_ltd/36916912/1205-lrmp-02-o%2B1977-ford-LTD%2Bmaritza-orozco.jpg

[pbmax]

Nice architecture.

[mraynrand]

Nice architecture.

you have to admire the suspension