Packers re-sign Shields, 4 year $39 million

[digitaldean]

Per PFT:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/08/sam-shields-packers-agree-on-four-year-39-million-deal/

Reported in FA rumor thread, but was suggested to start a new thread on this.

Comment window is now open....

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Well thats great news that we signed him, but I was hoping that was a typo and said 5 years/39. Almost 10mil/year, hmmm. Maybe with the cap going up it won't look that bad in a few years.

[wist43]

Glad to have him back.

[smuggler]

The contract has $12.5 mil in guaranteed money. If Shields regresses or just doesn't continue to develop, the Packers can get out of that contract without too much headache in a few seasons. If he does continue to develop, then he gets paid accordingly. Probably fair for both sides.

[digitaldean]

Shields has better make up speed than any DB on this squad and most DB in the NFL. He played awesome in the reg. season finale vs. Bears and pretty much shut down Brandon Marshall.

[Guiness]

Good news, even if it's more than I thought he'd get. But it's for 4 years, and with the cap going up I bet the last couple of years are going to look really good.

I guess the CB market is strong again after a soft one in 2013. Considering PFT had him ranked as the 5th best CB available (after Talib, Davis, Verner and Asomugha) what are the others going to get? There's not much room between what Shields got and the franchise number.

[Guiness]

The contract has $12.5 mil in guaranteed money. If Shields regresses or just doesn't continue to develop, the Packers can get out of that contract without too much headache in a few seasons. If he does continue to develop, then he gets paid accordingly. Probably fair for both sides.

More like $15mil with his 2014 salary, it's not likely he gets cut before this year.

[The Shadow]

Look for Pickett to be released or offered about 2 million (down from 6).
The 6 or 4 million savings will go toward the Shield's contract.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Wonder what his exact cap number in 2014 will be..

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Look for Pickett to be released or offered about 2 million (down from 6).
The 6 or 4 million savings will go toward the Shield's contract.

Pickett is a free agent.

[Packman_26]

Wonder what his exact cap number in 2014 will be..

5.625 mil

[Packman_26]

Year 1 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 2.5 Cap Number 5.625
Year 2 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 6 Cap Number 9.25
Year 3 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 9 Cap Number 12.125
Year 4 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 9 Cap Number 12.125

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

5.625 mil

Thanks were did you find that? Or did you do (39-12.5)/4? In that case its 6.625.

edit: saw someone else post on another forum

2014
Sal: 11.857
Bon: 3.125
2015
Sal: 2.875
Bon: 3.125
2016
Sal: 5.875
Bon: 3.125
2017
Sal: 5.875
Bon: 3.125

This makes more sense the article says he makes 15 mil year one and 21 total the first two.

[red]

well good news, a lot of money, but with the cap expected to hit 160 by 2015 he's numbers won't hurt so bad

i will say its about 4 million a year more then his agent said they were looking for just a couple weeks ago. still gotta wonder if we couldn't have gotten him for cheaper if we had tried to sign him during the year,

but oh well, we got our best CB back. and now its time to talk to the other cb about taking a pay cut

[mraynrand]

Year 1 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 2.5 Cap Number 5.625
Year 2 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 6 Cap Number 9.25
Year 3 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 9 Cap Number 12.125
Year 4 Signing Bonus 3.125 Base 9 Cap Number 12.125

7.5/year first two years (edit - against the cap). . Me likey (edit - still a lot of guaranteed money, he'd better play like a Deion Sanders who can tackle from time to time).

[3irty1]

Well the guys who do it for a living must be thinking the best is yet to come from Mr. Shields. Hopefully the rest of the FA CB contracts look at least comparable. That is a lot of money for Sam IMO.

[Packman_26]

The Profootballtalk link has the info I just did the math. 12.5/4 is 3.125 per year. He'll receive 15 mil this year 2.5+12.5. 21 by his second year, 21-12.5-2.5=6. 30 by the third year, 30-12.5-2.5-6=9. 39 total, 39-12.5-2.5-6-9=9

[red]

Well the guys who do it for a living must be thinking the best is yet to come from Mr. Shields. Hopefully the rest of the FA CB contracts look at least comparable. That is a lot of money for Sam IMO.

yeah

i'm happy sam is back

but man, i can't help but think we just greatly overpaid for one of our own again

hopefully with the cap going up, and with sam continuing to improve, those 12.1 million a year cap numbers won't seem so huge when we get there

the first 2 years i'm fine with, those last 2 just looks really big, almost "funny" looking to me

[Guiness]

Thanks were did you find that? Or did you do (39-12.5)/4? In that case its 6.625.

edit: saw someone else post on another forum


This makes more sense the article says he makes 15 mil year one and 21 total the first two.

Pacman's numbers work too. If you add the 12.5 signing bonus to a 2.5 first year salary, there's your 15. 6mil base in year 2 gives you 21.

His numbers are a pretty decent deal for the team. Years 3 and 4's salary are high, but the cap should be up to compensate by then. If it isn't, or his play takes a downturn the team can cut him after year 2 and gain 2.75M in cap space.
Deals like you're showing with high salaries up front and lower salaries in later years can backfire on the team - player gets a 'what have you done for me lately attitude', looks at his base in later years and thinks he's underpaid.

[red]

The Profootballtalk link has the info I just did the math. 12.5/4 is 3.125 per year. He'll receive 15 mil this year 2.5+12.5. 21 by his second year, 21-12.5-2.5=9. 30 by the third year, 30-12.5-2.5-6=9. 39 total, 39-12.5-2.5-6-9=9

yeah, i did the numbers too based on the PFT numbers, and you're numbers look right, the only way it would look different is if there are some roster bonuses thrown in in years 3 or 4 or something like that, otherwise they look spot on to me

[red]

Pacman's numbers work too. If you add the 12.5 signing bonus to a 2.5 first year salary, there's your 15. 6mil base in year 2 gives you 21.

His numbers are a pretty decent deal for the team. Years 3 and 4's salary are high, but the cap should be up to compensate by then. If it isn't, or his play takes a downturn the team can cut him after year 2 and gain 2.75M in cap space.
Deals like you're showing with high salaries up front and lower salaries in later years can backfire on the team - player gets a 'what have you done for me lately attitude', looks at his base in later years and thinks he's underpaid.

yup, when they don't see the $$$$ coming in during those later years they start to bitch, forgetting that the signing bonus and the front loaded $$$$ were all part of the same deal

[SMBASS]

Glad we got him re-signed but I was hoping for 4 years more in 24-28 million range. (I realize with the structuring and contract games there's a lot more to it than just the gross number.) He's the one D player that I wanted to keep the most but that's a lot of change just to keep part of what I still consider a sucky D status quo. Hopefully between the rest of free agency, the draft, and getting some guys healthy well figure out a way to make some serious improvements on that side of the ball. As Red alluded to, something's still not right when our bottom of barrel the D takes up more of our salary cap than our upper tier O.

[run pMc]

Glad he signed, but that's a lot of money. He's not a $10M/yr CB IMO, but maybe his performance and the market in a few years will make that contract look like a bargain. Tramon's contract was for 4y/$33M, so maybe paying Shields $39M is the cost of doing business. They'll need a CB on a rookie contract at the other spot to keep that position from counting too much overall -- look for TT to draft a CB or find one off the PS who can play.

With how Tramon played the last half of the season, he has negotiating leverage and likely won't take a pay "cut" without some incentives (extra years, more guaranteed money, etc.).

[red]

so, we still have about 28 or 29 million in cap space to spend

i say lets blow another big chunk on byrd

sign tyson jackson for 4 or 5 a year

then draft a TE and new ILB (mosely)

defense is a lot closer to being fixed

[Willard]

His first expenditures should be sending gift baskets to those who helped him get this contract: Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, and Cordarrelle Patterson.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

The Profootballtalk link has the info I just did the math. 12.5/4 is 3.125 per year. He'll receive 15 mil this year 2.5+12.5. 21 by his second year, 21-12.5-2.5=9. 30 by the third year, 30-12.5-2.5-6=9. 39 total, 39-12.5-2.5-6-9=9

Oh okay I see. That makes sense I see how it works.

[smuggler]

We have the option to back out after two years and pay just more than $20 mil. If he's continued to improve, we can keep him for about that much more over the last two years, or even extend him. It's a premium, no doubt, but he's honestly our best cover corner and we could have done much worse, IMO.

[OS PA]

Glad he signed, but that's a lot of money. He's not a $10M/yr CB IMO, but maybe his performance and the market in a few years will make that contract look like a bargain. Tramon's contract was for 4y/$33M, so maybe paying Shields $39M is the cost of doing business. They'll need a CB on a rookie contract at the other spot to keep that position from counting too much overall -- look for TT to draft a CB or find one off the PS who can play.

With how Tramon played the last half of the season, he has negotiating leverage and likely won't take a pay "cut" without some incentives (extra years, more guaranteed money, etc.).

Enter Casey Hayward.

[woodbuck27]

Big money for Sam Shields but we needed this UFA.

If he had gotten away the secondary would have a lot of heat on it.

The cost seems higher than expected but TT got it done.

Good job Ted Thompson.

GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

The contract has $12.5 mil in guaranteed money. If Shields regresses or just doesn't continue to develop, the Packers can get out of that contract without too much headache in a few seasons. If he does continue to develop, then he gets paid accordingly. Probably fair for both sides.

Yeah, the headline numbers are BIG, but the guaranteed number, which also could be inflated, is manageable. Nice to have this done.

[Smeefers]

well good news, a lot of money, but with the cap expected to hit 160 by 2015 he's numbers won't hurt so bad

i will say its about 4 million a year more then his agent said they were looking for just a couple weeks ago. still gotta wonder if we couldn't have gotten him for cheaper if we had tried to sign him during the year,

but oh well, we got our best CB back. and now its time to talk to the other cb about taking a pay cut

Oh come on. For the past few weeks all I've heard is hand wringing about getting shields signed and now because it's what, 2 mil a year more than you expected it's suddenly a concern? What happened to him being the guy we couldn't let go? At least woodbuck can call a spade a spade and give credit where it's due. Dude rails on TT on a regular basis but when he pulls a good move, he gives him cred.

And c'mon Red! I expect way better of you with the whole "should of tried to sign him during the year" talk. We have no idea how hard TT pushed to get him signed during the year. Rosenhouse is a really good agent, there's a good possibility he wouldn't let a signing happen, especially when he saw how good shields was doing because he knew it would drive up the price.

This is a good thing, and honestly, if Shields keeps on his path, he's a huge signing. The dude can cover opposing #1's with regular consistency and that's great! He's not getting paid shut down money, he's getting paid #1 corner money which is more than fair.

[pbmax]

His first expenditures should be sending gift baskets to those who helped him get this contract: Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, and Cordarrelle Patterson.

And Davon House (regression) and Casey Hawyard (Packer Hamstrings).

Shields bet on himself and won. Good for him. He's expensive for 2 years, if he plays well enough to stick around, he'll be cheap in Years 3 and 4. That expense in the first two years is the price of not guaranteeing half the contract like Tim Jennings.

The player point of view is the franchise tag for two years nets more than $24 million guaranteed in each year its tendered. He came in more than $3 mil under that.

[Guiness]

We have no idea how hard TT pushed to get him signed during the year. Rosenhouse is a really good agent, there's a good possibility he wouldn't let a signing happen, especially when he saw how good shields was doing because he knew it would drive up the price.


That's what I expect happened, Rosenhaus convinced him to wait as he was so close to a big FA payday. Oh so chancy though, he got knocked out of the game vs the 49ers after taking a shot to the knee - he coulda cost himself a lot of money if he'd been seriously hurt.

[Smeefers]

That's what I expect happened, Rosenhaus convinced him to wait as he was so close to a big FA payday. Oh so chancy though, he got knocked out of the game vs the 49ers after taking a shot to the knee - he coulda cost himself a lot of money if he'd been seriously hurt.

With the year he was having and a full off season to recover, he still would of made some pretty good cash. Maybe not this good but that's what betting on yourself means.

[pbmax]

Aaron Rodgers ‏@AaronRodgers12 8m
Pumped to see that @ShieldSam37 is gonna be a Packer for years to come! Excellent player and teammate. Packer Nation gotta be excited

[Joemailman]

yeah

i'm happy sam is back

but man, i can't help but think we just greatly overpaid for one of our own again

hopefully with the cap going up, and with sam continuing to improve, those 12.1 million a year cap numbers won't seem so huge when we get there

the first 2 years i'm fine with, those last 2 just looks really big, almost "funny" looking to me

I think the numbers are reasonable. 10 million per year put Sam below what the elite CB's are getting with the franchise tag number being almost 12 million for CB's. By the time you get to the last year of the contract, the franchise number for CB's will probably be higher still.

[pbmax]

That expense in the first two years is the price of not guaranteeing half the contract like Tim Jennings.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 2h
Shields' guaranteed money is only slightly above that of #Bears CB Tim Jennings ($11M). That was what the #Packers had to beat w/$39M total.

Could also say he got more total guaranteed money than Jennings and NEARLY the entire value of TJ's deal in 2 years. But with that price, they can say goodbye after Year 2. Bears would have to wait for Year 3 probably.

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 2h
Do you have something to tell us, Sam? RT @ShieldSam37 God is Good!!!!

Sorta means his Tweet yesterday was about this deal.

Jersey Al - ALLGBP ‏@JerseyAlGBP 11m
This--> RT @MattBowen41: @Aaron_Nagler @TundraVision Young CB in his prime playing years with man-coverage skills. Not easy to find...

Tramon Williams ‏@HighRizer38 16m
Congrats to my bro @ShieldSam37 for getting what he deserves! I've had the honor to watch your growth. I'm proud of you bro!

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 47m
RT @show_case29 Got my big bro samshields37 samshields37 back for another 4 years. Well deserved congrats bro. Not… http://instagram.com/p/lTV5WwgYte/

The Butler approves:

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 23s
Good for both. RT @leap36: With only 12.5 mil gar would you say Ted did a good job in convincing SS to stay,

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If Shields continues to get better and the cap jumps 10+ mil/year the next couple of years then its not that bad of a deal.

[gbgary]

great news. numbers are pretty friendly I understand. best of all we don't get weaker at this position and don't HAVE to draft a cb. can concentrate on major needs.

[KYPack]

Thank God.

Not for the SS signing, but I feel better about my own grasp on reality.

Really felt that Sam was the one deal they had to do and would get done.

I was thinking about this at the close of the season when I saw a video of Leroy talking about out FA's and what we had to do concerning them. When the matter of Sam came up, Leroy was emphatic that he must be signed. It was like Butler was reading my mind when he gave a number of in-depth reasons why. I really like Leroy and his defensive philosophy & I learn a lot of football from the guy. In the past few days when it looked like Sam would walk, I couldn't believe we would buy Raji and sell Sam.

This move is good and I feel better, so that's cool.

Anybody think the G tattoo on the neck came into play in this decision?

JK JK

[Packers4Glory]

Need a good veteran safety now via FA

[Bossman641]

A little more than I hoped for, but with the huge cap increase coming up it will be fine. Good work TT. Couldn't afford to lose Shields.

[Bretsky]

yeah

i'm happy sam is back

but man, i can't help but think we just greatly overpaid for one of our own again

hopefully with the cap going up, and with sam continuing to improve, those 12.1 million a year cap numbers won't seem so huge when we get there

the first 2 years i'm fine with, those last 2 just looks really big, almost "funny" looking to me


AGREEE

[Bretsky]

I think the numbers are reasonable. 10 million per year put Sam below what the elite CB's are getting with the franchise tag number being almost 12 million for CB's. By the time you get to the last year of the contract, the franchise number for CB's will probably be higher still.


Didn't an All Pro CB just sign a 4Yr for 32mIL deal ? Can't remember who it was but when I saw it I thought...he's better than Shields now...but Shields is younger

[Bretsky]

great news. numbers are pretty friendly I understand. best of all we don't get weaker at this position and don't HAVE to draft a cb. can concentrate on major needs.

AGREE; I like going into the draft not feeling desperate for a position...but that is what I said out safety Last Year......feeling the same thing this yr if TT neglects that position during FA

[Joemailman]

Didn't an All Pro CB just sign a 4Yr for 32mIL deal ? Can't remember who it was but when I saw it I thought...he's better than Shields now...but Shields is younger

Considerably younger. It was Brent Grimes who signed with Miami for 4 years, 32 million, 16 million guaranteed. Grimes will turn 31 in July and missed all of 2012 with an achilles injury.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Didn't an All Pro CB just sign a 4Yr for 32mIL deal ? Can't remember who it was but when I saw it I thought...he's better than Shields now...but Shields is younger

Shields is both better and younger than Grimes, IMHO. Still, it's big numbers. I'll be interested to see what Verners gets. I like Sam though and felt he was the one guy we needed to resign. If you are a draft and develop team, these are the type of guys you need to keep.

[PlantPage55]

I don't even think it's a lot of money, even as is. It's the cost of doing business and it goes up every year. He goes somewhere else, he gets comparable money, I'm sure. Free Agents, especially young, first payday guys, are nearly ALWAYS "overpaid"

What I would say to fans is that this is the sort of thing that it takes to sign outside FAs. I know we get frustrated with TT over it, but it's easy to see why he'd rather give money to the players we know, more than the ones we don't.

That said, I expect him to do some considerable shopping on the FA market this year.

[Patler]

We have the option to back out after two years and pay just more than $20 mil. If he's continued to improve, we can keep him for about that much more over the last two years, or even extend him. It's a premium, no doubt, but he's honestly our best cover corner and we could have done much worse, IMO.

That is the key to the deal. Cap hits could be

2014 - $5.625M.
2015 - $8.125 or $9.125 (some reports say $20M in two years, others say $21M.)
Dead money hit of $6.25M., possibly spread over two years.

I also assume there will be some sort of relatively significant game day roster bonuses. The Packers use those a lot, especially with a guy like Shields who has shown some tendencies toward injuries and missed games. What will be interesting is if they have any sort of split contract, which cuts his salary significantly if he goes on IR. Until just a few years ago, those were nearly unheard of for younger veterans in their second contracts, except for guys who had already spent a lot of time on IR, but more and more teams are using them somewhat routinely now.

[pbmax]

Didn't an All Pro CB just sign a 4Yr for 32mIL deal ? Can't remember who it was but when I saw it I thought...he's better than Shields now...but Shields is younger


Considerably younger. It was Brent Grimes who signed with Miami for 4 years, 32 million, 16 million guaranteed. Grimes will turn 31 in July and missed all of 2012 with an achilles injury.


Shields is both better and younger than Grimes, IMHO. Still, it's big numbers. I'll be interested to see what Verners gets. I like Sam though and felt he was the one guy we needed to resign. If you are a draft and develop team, these are the type of guys you need to keep.

Packers traded bigger money in out years (3 and 4) to keep the guaranteed money below Grimes and near Jennings. Rosenhaus in turn got the 2 year average up past $20 million.

[Fritz]

Oh come on. For the past few weeks all I've heard is hand wringing about getting shields signed and now because it's what, 2 mil a year more than you expected it's suddenly a concern? What happened to him being the guy we couldn't let go? At least woodbuck can call a spade a spade and give credit where it's due. Dude rails on TT on a regular basis but when he pulls a good move, he gives him cred.

And c'mon Red! I expect way better of you with the whole "should of tried to sign him during the year" talk. We have no idea how hard TT pushed to get him signed during the year. Rosenhouse is a really good agent, there's a good possibility he wouldn't let a signing happen, especially when he saw how good shields was doing because he knew it would drive up the price.

This is a good thing, and honestly, if Shields keeps on his path, he's a huge signing. The dude can cover opposing #1's with regular consistency and that's great! He's not getting paid shut down money, he's getting paid #1 corner money which is more than fair.


Thanks, Smeefs. As I read all the comments about "this in nice but TT paid too much" I kept thinking the same things. In the last week or so, with characteristic bitterness, some of our more dour Rats referred to Shields in posts as if he were already gone. These comments came particularly strongly after it came out Raji got a one year deal.

People bitch that Ted is cheap. Then he signs a guy who is young and talented and evolving, and some people bitch that Ted overpaid.

Had Shields signed elsewhere for the same money, there would have been a contingent of Rats that would've howled that TT should've paid that money. The same contingent that's grumbling now that TT paid too much...

It's good news. Or it appears to be, anyway. Let's celebrate and hope that the continuity in the defensive backfield will pay off, that Shields will continue to improve, that Tramontana will play like he did in the second half of last year, and that Hayward gets and stays healthy.

Springtime! Hope!

[red]

i'm sorry you and smeefers feel that things can only be black or white. either the shields resigning was good, or it was bad

[Fritz]

Did you read the post? I said and still say, it may turn out to be bad. We don't know. Shields could get lazy, could get arrested, could get hurt. We don't know. But you're so bent on your negativity that the very outcome you bitterly complained in a post would not happen - that the team would re-sign Shields - did happen, yet you're unhappy that the team paid too much. Like I said, if another team had signed Shields for that same sum, you'd bitch that Ted was cheap.

[red]

maybe

[red]

i will say, that overpaying for sam (one of our better younger players), sits a whole hell of a lot better with me then overpaying to keep our shit like burnett, b jones, and trying to overpay to keep raji

[pbmax]

Its impossible to say Shields is overpaid now. After FA, when the market numbers are in for the rest of his CB FA class, then we'll know.

[mraynrand]

Shields is both better and younger than Grimes, IMHO.

no need to be humble; you are correct. Packers (and others I've seen) have abused Grimy at corner. Much prefer Shields, especially if Detroit drafts Evans as many are predicting. Lot of large fast WRs are going to be in the NFC north. Shield's signing is an acknowledgement of that reality.

[HarveyWallbangers]

i will say, that overpaying for sam (one of our better younger players), sits a whole hell of a lot better with me then overpaying to keep our shit like burnett, b jones, and trying to overpay to keep raji

Jones? Probably. Burnett? Hardly. When Burnett signed, most thought he was an ascending, young player that TT should sign long-term. Most felt he was close to a level that Shields is at now or on his way to becoming that. He had a bad year. It may or may not turn out to be a bad move in the end, but the signing in itself was not bad at the time. Raji has performed well in the past. He had a terrible contract year. Getting him back at $4M for one year with incentives wouldn't be a bad signing. It may or may not turn out well, but I wouldn't fault Packers brass for that. In fact, it's possible it could turn out to be a very good move. Bad moves are things like keeping Donald Drive around an extra year too long, IMHO. Many could see that his time had passed. Resigning Jones could be classified as bad move because many felt it wasn't a great move at the time. Most moves are like Favre vs. Rodgers. It's not black and white. It could turn out good or bad. In the case of Favre vs. Rodgers it turned out good, but had Rodgers not been the QB they thought he was it could have turned out the other way. All you can hope for is that your GM is making more good then bad and consistently producing a winner. Hopefully, some of those years things bounce your way and you win a title or two along the way.

[pbmax]

3 years/$11 million and a $3 million dollar bonus. If we are complaining that this is the worst overpaid offense on the Packers, then we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. If something came along better, a) he would be starting, b) Jones could be cut with minimum ramifications.

I still think he is the best coverage option at ILB though Francois is a ball magnet, but he did not improve versus the run.

Of all the concerns on the D, replacing him, not the money, is the concern.

[Patler]

3 years/$11 million and a $3 million dollar bonus. If we are complaining that this is the worst overpaid offense on the Packers, then we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. If something came along better, a) he would be starting, b) Jones could be cut with minimum ramifications.

I still think he is the best coverage option at ILB though Francois is a ball magnet, but he did not improve versus the run.

Of all the concerns on the D, replacing him, not the money, is the concern.

Exactly. I believe the Jones contract was a very good one for the team. Would it be better to have a better player? Absolutely, and with the contract the way it is, they could dump Jones for a better guy at anytime they find the better guy. In the mean time, with the salary cap now supporting 53 players at $2.5M/player (I know, you actually pay more players than that) he isn't being paid a crippling salary.

[PlantPage55]

3 years/$11 million and a $3 million dollar bonus. If we are complaining that this is the worst overpaid offense on the Packers, then we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. If something came along better, a) he would be starting, b) Jones could be cut with minimum ramifications.

I still think he is the best coverage option at ILB though Francois is a ball magnet, but he did not improve versus the run.

Of all the concerns on the D, replacing him, not the money, is the concern.

Exactly. And actually, Jones is the only one that makes me feel even a little bad, because I never thought he was starting material in the first place. But fans sometimes act like we're hemorrhaging money for this guy, when really it's not that bad. Sure, overpaying everyone a little adds up to a lot, but Brad Jones is the only one I can find it in my heart to feel bad about.

The price of doing business means overpaying. Fans who want to see us spend in FA can expect that, whether we're signing our own or somebody else's.

[Packman_26]

3 years/$11 million and a $3 million dollar bonus. If we are complaining that this is the worst overpaid offense on the Packers, then we are scraping the bottom of the barrel. If something came along better, a) he would be starting, b) Jones could be cut with minimum ramifications.

I still think he is the best coverage option at ILB though Francois is a ball magnet, but he did not improve versus the run.

Of all the concerns on the D, replacing him, not the money, is the concern.
Right on the money. Jones cap number for the next 2 years is $4 million each season. If they cut him this offseason it would be a $2 million cap hit. If that is your worst contract you are doing pretty good.
But really, if they are able to make the moves that they want to make should we be concerned about individual salaries? I don't say that to say to discount the subject amongst fans but rather to say that until the Packers are unable to sign or retain someone that they want to have, its not really a problem is it?
We can argue Thompson's philosophy of draft and develop. But if we accept that its the system the Packers will be operating under for the foreseeable future, they will have to keep their own potential stars as they aren't going to come from any other place. Will this move (or Raji's rumored deal) prevent them from signing Cobb or Nelson or any other Packers upcoming free agents? I think that answer is no.

[BZnDallas]

This seems like a fair deal for both sides currently and could turn into a deal for the Packers in the second half of the deal... With the tag number being 12 million, that is the starting point of negotiations for elite shutdown CB play... 10 mil per year that Shields is getting sounds like market price for a no. 1 corner... he as the ability to go out on any given Sunday and shut down a Calvin or a Brandon... he's not going to do it every Sunday, but the ability is there... i'm fine with the singing and i'm pretty happy TT got it done...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Everson Griffen just got almost $9M/year from the Vikings. Does that make us feel better about the Shields signing? While he is a decent player with good potential, he's performed nowhere near the level that Shields has. I'm not saying that a bad move for the Vikings, but I think this might be a year where we have some "he got what?" thoughts. The cap went up, and it's supposed to go up A LOT in a couple of years, so salaries may jump to head scratching level this offseason.

[red]

people keep saying that the jones deal isn't a bad deal for a starter (2.5 to 4.5 million a year)

no its not a bad deal, FOR A STARTER. and thats where the problem comes in. jones should not be a starter, and he's never shown that he could be a starter imo. at best he is a decent backup, and backup LB's should not be making 4 million dollars a year, they should be guys on rookie deal, or vets making closer to the minimum

yes, we can easily get out of the deal, and i think we should, because 4 million this year for a backup quality guy is way too much imo

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Got to agree with red about Brad Jones. I hated the contract then and I hate it now. He's not an adequate starter and if it requires 4 million to keep him as a stop gap then I would have let him go. Lattimore or the like could have also been serviceable stop gaps. Not a good use of money.

[KYPack]

Well Red, I'll join you over on the "Dark Side" for a bit. From what I've seen, one of the ILB spots is a place where you can get a decent player for a value price. Two coaches seem to be able to do that quite a bit. Belichick and Mike Zimmer know the league talent and get good guys at an inside backer spot. BB picked up Junior Seau at the end of his career and he filled in really well at an ILB job. I saw Zimmer sign a guy the Raiders cut, Thomas Howard who played at a high level for Cincy. Scott Fujita was also on the NFL scrap heap when NO picked him up. Scott gave the Saints a good run at ILB at a pro Bowl level.

There any number of inside backer vets every year that could be had at less than Jones' price. I am sick of waiting for this guy to pop. Really, I've never seen him return to his rookie level of play when he was at LOLB.

We can use the extra jing this would save. We need to sign a small village of DLineman, we could save at the backer spot to do that.

[Patler]

Howard was signed to a 2 year contract for $6.5M. I don't know how much was guaranteed.
Fujita was signed to a 3 years, $14M contract with $8M guaranteed.

Can't find the info on Seau.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Howard was signed to a 2 year contract for $6.5M. I don't know how much was guaranteed.
Fujita was signed to a 3 years, $14M contract with $8M guaranteed.

Can't find the info on Seau.

And those guys were better players.

[red]

And those guys were better players.

agreed

those are real starters, and team leader type vets

[Patler]

And those guys were better players.

Fujita anyway. I don't know much about Howard, to be honest.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/249201491.html

Good article. Not sure way he thinks its a "pretty good bet" Raji signs the one year deal though. Does he know something we don't?

[red]

Howard was signed to a 2 year contract for $6.5M. I don't know how much was guaranteed.
Fujita was signed to a 3 years, $14M contract with $8M guaranteed.

Can't find the info on Seau.

you looking for when he signed with the pats?

this isn't a very reputable site, but they have him making a million a year when he was with the pats

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/nfl/junior-seau-net-worth/

[Patler]

you looking for when he signed with the pats?

this isn't a very reputable site, but they have him making a million a year when he was with the pats

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/nfl/junior-seau-net-worth/

That seems to be right, I have since found a couple places that mentioned the $1M/year, and I have somewhat of a recollection of that. But he never really played much for them. Didn't he end up on IR the first year he signed with them? He played only in spots the next couple years.

[red]

That seems to be right, I have since found a couple places that mentioned the $1M/year, and I have somewhat of a recollection of that. But he never really played much for them. Didn't he end up on IR the first year he signed with them? He played only in spots the next couple years.

i think he played part of the year in 2006. yup, turns out he broke his arm in late november and went on IR

he then re-signed in 07 for 1.1 million for a year, he was 38 or 39 by then




Junior Seau's contract with New England doesn't include a signing bonus.
The one-year pact can be worth $1.1 million if Seau reaches incentives that add $100,000 to his $1 million base salary. He gets $500,000 guaranteed for making the roster, even if he lands on injured reserve during the season.
Source: Boston Globe
Tue, May 22, 2007 04:26:00 PM


then he retired again, but came back late in the 08 season when the pats needed him due to other injuries

then kinda retired again, only to resign with the pats during the 09 season, when he was 40

[pbmax]

people keep saying that the jones deal isn't a bad deal for a starter (2.5 to 4.5 million a year)

no its not a bad deal, FOR A STARTER. and thats where the problem comes in. jones should not be a starter, and he's never shown that he could be a starter imo. at best he is a decent backup, and backup LB's should not be making 4 million dollars a year, they should be guys on rookie deal, or vets making closer to the minimum

yes, we can easily get out of the deal, and i think we should, because 4 million this year for a backup quality guy is way too much imo

But that is the entire point of his deal. He was expected to start and did start. He was young, reasonably productive, though in the middle of a position change on his first full FA contract and so wasn't likely to be signed for the vet minimum. T2 doesn't just hand money out to be kind. That was what they judged the market at. They have gotten it right with some (JJones) and wrong with others (Wells).

You know he had little leverage because the minute a better players shows up (or the need to cash for Aaron, Clay, Morgan or Sam) he can get the boot because his contract contains no provisions making his release tough even in its first year. He just did not improve as expected. He isn't helping as much as he should, but he is not an anchor on the future of the defense.

Its got to be a unique case for Thompson to sign a vet to a smaller deal. While rebuilding he got Walker, when remaking the LB corp he got Chillar and when trying to store up a pass rush, he signed Merling and Hargrove.

[Packman_26]

The thing is, lots of the Jones contract is a sunk cost. Cutting him isn't going to bring it back. According to Overthecap.com, they would save 1.925 million by cutting him. That's the only relevant number in discussing his roster spot. Could the Packers sign another player for less than $2 million per year that would have more value? Possible but I don't think it's a slam dunk by any means. He's no world beater but he's serviceable with starting experience, can play numerous positions, and is a known quantity.
It's a completely different argument than if he should be a starter or not.

[pbmax]

Silverstein today characterized the BJones signing as a poor one, while generally praising Thompson's overall FA contract agreements.

Says they panicked about the ILB position. Question I have, if he isn't retained, who would start? Is Lattimore a starting caliber ILB?

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/249201491.html

[red]

But that is the entire point of his deal. He was expected to start and did start. He was young, reasonably productive, though in the middle of a position change on his first full FA contract and so wasn't likely to be signed for the vet minimum. T2 doesn't just hand money out to be kind. That was what they judged the market at. They have gotten it right with some (JJones) and wrong with others (Wells).

You know he had little leverage because the minute a better players shows up (or the need to cash for Aaron, Clay, Morgan or Sam) he can get the boot because his contract contains no provisions making his release tough even in its first year. He just did not improve as expected. He isn't helping as much as he should, but he is not an anchor on the future of the defense.

Its got to be a unique case for Thompson to sign a vet to a smaller deal. While rebuilding he got Walker, when remaking the LB corp he got Chillar and when trying to store up a pass rush, he signed Merling and Hargrove.

interesting you brought up chillar, i forgot about him. chillar IMO, was a bit better the jones, but not by much

chillar signed in 2008 for a 2 year, 5.2 million dollar deal. then resigned in in 2009 for 4 years, 22.65 million

he was cut in 2011

neither were full time starter material, both got paid like starters, but jones deal looks pretty modest compared to what we threw at chillar

why the hell did we give chillar all that money?

ps, who's walker? i'm having a brain fart

[red]

Silverstein today characterized the BJones signing as a poor one, while generally praising Thompson's overall FA contract agreements.

Says they panicked about the ILB position. Question I have, if he isn't retained, who would start? Is Lattimore a starting caliber ILB?

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/249201491.html

honestly, when lattimore has played, i've been impressed

so, maybe he could start instead of jones. i would think our second ILB next to hawk isn't currently on the roster. and as soon as that guy is found, jones and his 4 million dollar cap number will be out the door soon after, because 4 million is too much to pay your backup ILB imo

[red]

The thing is, lots of the Jones contract is a sunk cost. Cutting him isn't going to bring it back. According to Overthecap.com, they would save 1.925 million by cutting him. That's the only relevant number in discussing his roster spot. Could the Packers sign another player for less than $2 million per year that would have more value? Possible but I don't think it's a slam dunk by any means. He's no world beater but he's serviceable with starting experience, can play numerous positions, and is a known quantity.
It's a completely different argument than if he should be a starter or not.

yes, but you can't just look at this year. we would free up 1.925 million this season, but also free up all of the 4.67 million next year

if we waited to cut him until next season,then we only save 3.67 million

[Packman_26]

yes, but you can't just look at this year. we would free up 1.925 million this season, but also free up all of the 4.67 million next year

if we waited to cut him until next season,then we only save 3.67 million
I don't think you should made decisions like that based on saving 2 million this year and an extra 1 million in 2015 (over the option of cutting him next offseason), especially for a team like the Packers that have so much cap flexibility. They should make those decisions based solely on keeping the best players. That is a benefit teams like the Cowboys don't have.
Maybe things change next year and the Packers have drafted CJ Mosley to start, signed a Defensive End and a Safety and they will need the 3.67 million to sign Cobb, Nelson, and Bulaga. In that case it makes sense, but given the information we currently have I don't see the justification.

[Bretsky]

I've said it many times regarding free agency; it's ok to overpay slightly if they are good players. You just don't want to overpay the crappy ones. That's why deep down I'm fine with Sam Shields and never have been with Brad Jones

[pbmax]

I've said it many times regarding free agency; it's ok to overpay slightly if they are good players. You just don't want to overpay the crappy ones. That's why deep down I'm fine with Sam Shields and never have been with Brad Jones

No wonder the underwriters worry about you. #RiskRatio

[pbmax]

We'll get some context on Shields soon, looks like:

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 1m
Corner market continues to constrict - the Colts nearing a deal with Vontae Davis. Every expectation it will get done Monday

[Bretsky]

No wonder the underwriters worry about you. #RiskRatio

Most underwirters don't get it; if they want to make good decisions they should give far more weight to the credit than what shows up on paper. Just pick the right people. It's not all about the numbers.

[red]

We'll get some context on Shields soon, looks like:

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 1m
Corner market continues to constrict - the Colts nearing a deal with Vontae Davis. Every expectation it will get done Monday

well, we did just set the market, so i would guess the shields deal is gonna look about right after all the others get paid

[Brandon494]

I've said it many times regarding free agency; it's ok to overpay slightly if they are good players. You just don't want to overpay the crappy ones. That's why deep down I'm fine with Sam Shields and never have been with AJ Hawk

fixed

[woodbuck27]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1986073-green-bay-packers-sign-sam-shields-to-a-39m-deal-too-much-or-just-right


What do you think of the Sam Shields deal?:

The Packers paid too much: 33.8%

The contract was perfect = 16.5%

The contract was a little high, but Shields is worth every penny = 49.7%

[Smeefers]

i will say, that overpaying for sam (one of our better younger players), sits a whole hell of a lot better with me then overpaying to keep our shit like burnett, b jones, and trying to overpay to keep raji

Lol. This I like.

[run pMc]

If Grimes is getting $8M/yr, I'm ok with Sam getting $9.75. He's younger, better, and healthier.
If the reports are true that he wanted Tim Jennings money, TT should have had Russ Ball run to the table with that contract. My guess is Sam's camp realized the amount of league interest and that boosted the contract demands. I'm ok with the contract.

I wasn't a huge fan of Brad Jones' contract. Bishop was coming back and talking smack about being the DPOY (LOL) and they had other guys they could have plugged in. I think the hope is that Jones' injuries caused the drop in his play. If not, he's got guys like Lattimore (if re-signed) and Barrington vying for that spot. I thought one reason Jones was signed is he had the same skill Chillar did: pass coverage.

[Smeefers]

interesting you brought up chillar, i forgot about him. chillar IMO, was a bit better the jones, but not by much

chillar signed in 2008 for a 2 year, 5.2 million dollar deal. then resigned in in 2009 for 4 years, 22.65 million

he was cut in 2011

neither were full time starter material, both got paid like starters, but jones deal looks pretty modest compared to what we threw at chillar

why the hell did we give chillar all that money?

ps, who's walker? i'm having a brain fart

We picked up chiller because we didn't have a LB who could cover a TE. He got a career ending injury in the offseason and we let him go the year of the strike. We still don't have a LB who can cover a TE.

[Smidgeon]

Pacman's numbers work too. If you add the 12.5 signing bonus to a 2.5 first year salary, there's your 15. 6mil base in year 2 gives you 21.

His numbers are a pretty decent deal for the team. Years 3 and 4's salary are high, but the cap should be up to compensate by then. If it isn't, or his play takes a downturn the team can cut him after year 2 and gain 2.75M in cap space.
Deals like you're showing with high salaries up front and lower salaries in later years can backfire on the team - player gets a 'what have you done for me lately attitude', looks at his base in later years and thinks he's underpaid.

And hopefully plays like he's underpaid: hungry for the next deal.

[bobblehead]

well good news, a lot of money, but with the cap expected to hit 160 by 2015 he's numbers won't hurt so bad

i will say its about 4 million a year more then his agent said they were looking for just a couple weeks ago. still gotta wonder if we couldn't have gotten him for cheaper if we had tried to sign him during the year,

but oh well, we got our best CB back. and now its time to talk to the other cb about taking a pay cut

Really...thats the conclusion you drew? I was only logging in to post this: I hope we can all finally put to rest anything an agent says during negotiations. Its all designed to put pressure on a GM. If someone else had signed him to this deal you would crucify TT for not putting him to the paper on that "reported deal" he was looking for. His agent knew that and he put out false information...if it had been true, he would have been signed then. Do you really believe TT moved from paying a guy 5.7 mill to 9.5 mill in a matter of weeks?

[bobblehead]

Thank God.

Not for the SS signing, but I feel better about my own grasp on reality.

Really felt that Sam was the one deal they had to do and would get done.

I was thinking about this at the close of the season when I saw a video of Leroy talking about out FA's and what we had to do concerning them. When the matter of Sam came up, Leroy was emphatic that he must be signed. It was like Butler was reading my mind when he gave a number of in-depth reasons why. I really like Leroy and his defensive philosophy & I learn a lot of football from the guy. In the past few days when it looked like Sam would walk, I couldn't believe we would buy Raji and sell Sam.

This move is good and I feel better, so that's cool.

Anybody think the G tattoo on the neck came into play in this decision?

JK JK

KY, I have been of this thinking for awhile. SS shut down some big name guys. He plays like a stud. Some people here wanted him for 6 million a year and as I said then, if that is on the table from his agent he would have been signed. We got a lockdown big time corner for 4 years. If we can bring in 2 impact guys and stay healthy our D looks damn good again.

[bobblehead]

people keep saying that the jones deal isn't a bad deal for a starter (2.5 to 4.5 million a year)

no its not a bad deal, FOR A STARTER. and thats where the problem comes in. jones should not be a starter, and he's never shown that he could be a starter imo. at best he is a decent backup, and backup LB's should not be making 4 million dollars a year, they should be guys on rookie deal, or vets making closer to the minimum

yes, we can easily get out of the deal, and i think we should, because 4 million this year for a backup quality guy is way too much imo

This is a case where I am not really disagreeing with you, but hte problem is that he is the best we got. Cut him to save money that isn't necessarily needed and we take a step backward at the position. I am confident that IF we find a better player Jones won't be paid 4mil to be a backup.

[bobblehead]

interesting you brought up chillar, i forgot about him. chillar IMO, was a bit better the jones, but not by much

chillar signed in 2008 for a 2 year, 5.2 million dollar deal. then resigned in in 2009 for 4 years, 22.65 million

he was cut in 2011

neither were full time starter material, both got paid like starters, but jones deal looks pretty modest compared to what we threw at chillar

why the hell did we give chillar all that money?

ps, who's walker? i'm having a brain fart

I said it then, I'll say it now. Chillar was a darn good player. He got cut because he got hurt in the offseason doing something dumb (motorcycle??). He also played safety far more often than a LB should be asked to.

[gbgary]

people grip about tt not spending money then when he does some say he spent too much. damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I'm of the "I wish he'd spend more" crowd so i won't complain when he makes a significant deal.

[pbmax]

I don't think the Jennings comparison was a fabrication, it was a deliberate plant that contained a definite item of truth and an option.

The truth was that the market for a non dominant #1 or very good #2 corner contained significant guaranteed money: $10 million or half of Jennings total deal.

The other was that the average could be low. Thompson wanted him at a reasonable price for longer than 2 years, but wasn't willing to go 50% guaranteed. Thus the deal includes some out years he won't necessarily see.

[mission]

You guys I know I would have turned on TT in a hurry if they didn't get this done. Sounds like a lot of money, but the cap is skyrocketing and it wont be much in a couple years if not a couple weeks when the Varners of the world get their deals. Can't make a big deal about a couple million bucks when the guy is a must-sign... same people that are bitching about the price (not necessarily here, just in general) are the same people bitching that TT never signs anyone.

[woodbuck27]

You guys I know I would have turned on TT in a hurry if they didn't get this done. Sounds like a lot of money, but the cap is skyrocketing and it wont be much in a couple years if not a couple weeks when the Varners of the world get their deals. Can't make a big deal about a couple million bucks when the guy is a must-sign... same people that are bitching about the price (not necessarily here, just in general) are the same people bitching that TT never signs anyone.

I think that TT sort of had his hands tied on this one. Also TT was up against a savvy players agent.

The Packers had the CAP space and to lose Sam Shields would have been a bad way to begin the off season.

This signing defines "prudent" for TT and the Green Bay Packers.

Good job TT.

GO PACK GO !

[red]

to play devils advocate a little more

which help improve our defense more, bringing shields back and keeping things the way they were. or letting ss walk and using that money to get one of the 2 best safeties available?

[mission]

Red -- is it a one or the other thing? I still think we could make a run at a safety, but it just takes two to tango.

[red]

Red -- is it a one or the other thing? I still think we could make a run at a safety, but it just takes two to tango.


no, one or the other

obviously, we can still get a top tier S, but just in case we don't, who would you rather have?

its a hypothetical, cause we already signed shields

for arguments sake, lets say one or the other. for the same price, would you rather have shields back, or sign byrd or ward?

what helps the team more?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd rather have Shields over any safety not named Byrd.

[red]

I'd rather have Shields over any safety not named Byrd.

but, we could maybe get byrd for the same if not less then what we paid sam

so is your answer byrd over sam?

[Teamcheez1]

but, we could maybe get byrd for the same if not less then what we paid sam

so is your answer byrd over sam?

Is a Byrd in the hand worth more than a Sam and a Bush?

[HarveyWallbangers]

but, we could maybe get byrd for the same if not less then what we paid sam

so is your answer byrd over sam?

Maybe. The problem is I don't know anything about Byrd's personality. He seemed like a malcontent in Buffalo, and I'm not sure he'd be good fit for the locker room. It's close though. Quite honestly, there aren't any FAs that I'd take over Shields without hesitation, so I have no problem with him being our top FA target. (Although it would be nice to throw in the likes of Arthur Jones and Garret Graham.)

[Fritz]

I'll take my ham in a Bush over a Byrd, not a Sam.

[denverYooper]

Is a Byrd in the hand worth more than a Sam and a Bush?

Killer. Sam Bush is a bad ass.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There are several solid safeties available. If we got one of those guys plus Shields, I'd probably take that combination over Byrd and some pedestrian corner.

[red]

There are several solid safeties available. If we got one of those guys plus Shields, I'd probably take that combination over Byrd and some pedestrian corner.

yeah, i think i agree with you on both counts

MAYBE, byrd over sam. tough call

but sam and a good safety would be ideal

[run pMc]

There are several solid safeties available. If we got one of those guys plus Shields, I'd probably take that combination over Byrd and some pedestrian corner.

This.

[bobblehead]

to play devils advocate a little more

which help improve our defense more, bringing shields back and keeping things the way they were. or letting ss walk and using that money to get one of the 2 best safeties available?

You stick with the guy you KNOW can play in your system. I stand by that every time. Continuity is a real thing, not something made up by journalists (in this one instance).

[bobblehead]

Killer. Sam Bush is a bad ass.

Imagine Sam Shields with Jarret Bush's work ethic!!

[pbmax]

Spoon:

Shields Deal As Advertised
1. $12.5 signing bonus is only guaranteed money
2. $2.5 mil roster bonus in 2015, $500,000 each year as game by game roster bonus
3. Bases: $1.5 in 14, $2.5 Mil in 15, $8 mil in last two years
4. Cap Numbers: $5.562,500 in 14, $9.125 mil in 15, and $12.125 mil in last two years
5. $500,000 workout bonus each year

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/249504991.html#ixzz2vgJd4qNm
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

[Brandon494]

Imagine Sam Shields with Jarret Bush's work ethic!!

Since when did Sam Shields not have work ethic? For a guy that only played one year of CB in college and now is playing at a Pro Bowl level I'm pretty sure his worth ethic is just fine. Also noticed how he was a lot better at tackling this season then in the past.

[KYPack]

Since when did Sam Shields not have work ethic? For a guy that only played one year of CB in college and now is playing at a Pro Bowl level I'm pretty sure his worth ethic is just fine. Also noticed how he was a lot better at tackling this season then in the past.

Sam's worked hard.

He went from a green kid to a guy who will pick off an errant slant in a heartbeat.

Sam if the proof to me that Joe Whitt Jr is an excellent CB coach.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Spoon:

Shields Deal As Advertised
1. $12.5 signing bonus is only guaranteed money
2. $2.5 mil roster bonus in 2015, $500,000 each year as game by game roster bonus
3. Bases: $1.5 in 14, $2.5 Mil in 15, $8 mil in last two years
4. Cap Numbers: $5.562,500 in 14, $9.125 mil in 15, and $12.125 mil in last two years
5. $500,000 workout bonus each year

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/249504991.html#ixzz2vgJd4qNm
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

This deal is extremely team friendly. Only $12M guaranteed. $7.5M in base + roster bonus the first two years and $17M in base + roster bonus in the last two years. Basically, it's a relatively affordable two year contract to see if Shields just to the elite level and then see how he's doing and what the cap looks like in 2016.

[red]

vontae davis just also signed a 4 year 39 million dollar deal with 20 million "guaranteed"

the deals could turn out to be pretty similar in the end

[HarveyWallbangers]

vontae davis just also signed a 4 year 39 million dollar deal with 20 million "guaranteed"

the deals could turn out to be pretty similar in the end

If it's truly $12.5M guaranteed vs. $20M guaranteed, then they aren't that similar. We'll see the numbers, but I think it may turn out that we got a decent deal here. I like Shields for his numbers more than Grimes for his numbers and Davis for his reported numbers. I'm not sure what to think about Verner. I haven't seen him that much, and I've read some "buyer beware" articles on him because supposedly he's the type of corner that needs to be in a specific scheme (little scheme flexibility).

[red]

If it's truly $12.5M guaranteed vs. $20M guaranteed, then they aren't that similar. We'll see the numbers, but I think it may turn out that we got a decent deal here. I like Shields for his numbers more than Grimes for his numbers and Davis for his reported numbers. I'm not sure what to think about Verner. I haven't seen him that much, and I've read some "buyer beware" articles on him because supposedly he's the type of corner that needs to be in a specific scheme (little scheme flexibility).

like i've said before (and got bashed for it), when these numbers first get announced, "guaranteed" money usually includes signing bonuses, all roster bonuses, and any other bonuses during the coarse of the contract. they could also "guarantee" the first couple years of the contract, bringing up the guaranteed total

sams contract, he's here for at least 2 years. he's pretty much "guaranteed" to make 19.5 million (signing bonus+2015 roster bonus+2014 &2015 base salary+ 2014 workout bonus) plus there might be another 500,000 workout bonus in 2015, which would bring that "guaranteed" total to 20 million

i wouldn't be surprised to learn that davis' actual signing bonus is closer to what sam got. and i would bet their deals are almost exactly the same when we find out all of davis' numbers like we did for shields

[HarveyWallbangers]

like i've said before (and got bashed for it), when these numbers first get announced, "guaranteed" money usually includes signing bonuses, all roster bonuses, and any other bonuses during the coarse of the contract. they could also "guarantee" the first couple years of the contract, bringing up the guaranteed total

sams contract, he's here for at least 2 years. he's pretty much "guaranteed" to make 19.5 million (signing bonus+2015 roster bonus+2014 &2015 base salary+ 2014 workout bonus) plus there might be another 500,000 workout bonus in 2015, which would bring that "guaranteed" total to 20 million

i wouldn't be surprised to learn that davis' actual signing bonus is closer to what sam got. and i would bet their deals are almost exactly the same when we find out all of davis' numbers like we did for shields

The guaranteed money reported for Sam was spot on. Perhaps Davis isn't getting any roster or workout bonuses. If Sam gets a career ending injury this year, those roster and workout bonuses are not guaranteed and the Packers would not be on the hook for them. It will be interesting to see what Davis got. Pretty comparable players though.

[red]

The guaranteed money reported for Sam was spot on. Perhaps Davis isn't getting any roster or workout bonuses. If Sam gets a career ending injury this year, those roster and workout bonuses are not guaranteed and the Packers would not be on the hook for them. It will be interesting to see what Davis got. Pretty comparable players though.

people keep saying reported "guaranteed" money is real guaranteed money, and its usually not the case

i fully intend to go through a lot of these reported numbers and show just how "guaranteed" these reported "guaranteed" numbers are

but i think i did that last year too, and everyone already forgot by this year and assumed that agents would never mislead anyone ever

so maybe i'll just say "fuck it"

[HarveyWallbangers]

people keep saying reported "guaranteed" money is real guaranteed money, and its usually not the case

i fully intend to go through a lot of these reported numbers and show just how "guaranteed" these reported "guaranteed" numbers are

but i think i did that last year too, and everyone already forgot by this year and assumed that agents would never mislead anyone ever

so maybe i'll just say "fuck it"

The reported guaranteed money for Shields was spot on. Reports said he got $12.5M guaranteed. They weren't inflated with the roster and workout bonuses. I don't know if that will be the case with Davis. We'll see.

[red]

The reported guaranteed money for Shields was spot on. Reports said he got $12.5M guaranteed. They weren't inflated with the roster and workout bonuses. I don't know if that will be the case with Davis. We'll see.

suppose it really depends on the agent, they're usually the ones who "leak" the info

the shields info was spot on, and its very very rare to see all that info given when the deal is announced

[SMBASS]

Deleted post. Wrong thread.

[Guiness]

Well, any way you cut it, we're FAR better off than...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/11/jaguars-re-sign-cornerback-will-blackmon/

First line of TFA "The Jaguars have retained of their most experienced players." Oh my

[pbmax]

wrong thread

[red]

you're in the wrong thread again

[pbmax]

you're in the wrong thread again

Yep

[bobblehead]

Since when did Sam Shields not have work ethic? For a guy that only played one year of CB in college and now is playing at a Pro Bowl level I'm pretty sure his worth ethic is just fine. Also noticed how he was a lot better at tackling this season then in the past.

I am a big member of the SS fan club, but I don't think many guys have Jarret Bush's work ethic. I also think SS got just a tad content when he came into camp and lost out on the depth chart in a message sent from MM a couple years back. He obviously put in some serious work, but Bush remains on the team for one major reason....as an example of hard work.

[OS PA]

vontae davis just also signed a 4 year 39 million dollar deal with 20 million "guaranteed"

the deals could turn out to be pretty similar in the end

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/11/buccaneers-agree-to-terms-with-alterraun-verner/

Now the real question is, "Why did the so-called "top free agent cornerback" get signed for CONSIDERABLY less than the next two on the list? Also, I wish we would have brought him in as a complement to Sammy.

With this deal on the table, didn't we kinda, just, really sorta overpay for Shields?

[mraynrand]

I don't think many guys have Jarret Bush's work ethic.

I widdled it down for you

[pbmax]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/11/buccaneers-agree-to-terms-with-alterraun-verner/

Now the real question is, "Why did the so-called "top free agent cornerback" get signed for CONSIDERABLY less than the next two on the list? Also, I wish we would have brought him in as a complement to Sammy.

With this deal on the table, didn't we kinda, just, really sorta overpay for Shields?

It really depends on the guaranteed money and the structure of the contract.

[3irty1]

I expected that after a few days I'd warm up to having Sam back but I just can't get over the contract. This feels like an Al Davis scholarship to me. Actually pretty much every defender the Packers have on a 2nd contract right now is overpaid based on recent performance.

[pbmax]

I expected that after a few days I'd warm up to having Sam back but I just can't get over the contract. This feels like an Al Davis scholarship to me. Actually pretty much every defender the Packers have on a 2nd contract right now is overpaid based on recent performance.

Well, he is a bargain compared to Flacco.

Just keep repeating 2 years, its only 2 years, And $21 million.

[Brandon494]

I expected that after a few days I'd warm up to having Sam back but I just can't get over the contract. This feels like an Al Davis scholarship to me. Actually pretty much every defender the Packers have on a 2nd contract right now is overpaid based on recent performance.

I think its part of contracts getting bigger, I had more of a problem with the Clay Matthews deal then I did with this one. Especially after I saw what the Colts just paid Davis.

[red]

I think its part of contracts getting bigger, I had more of a problem with the Clay Matthews deal then I did with this one. Especially after I saw what the Colts just paid Davis.

what, that he got pretty much the same deal as shields?

[3irty1]

I thought I saw that he got almost twice as much guaranteed.

[Brandon494]

Shields is a much better corner then Davis, top 5 cover corner in the league IMO.

[Brandon494]

I thought I saw that he got almost twice as much guaranteed.

Yea but Shields gets like 26M in his first 2 seasons so its pretty much the same.

[red]

no details yet on the davis deal other then its reported he got 20 million "guaranteed"

however detail on one of the colts other big additions has become available. the team reported that arthur jones got 16 million "guaranteed"

the details on jones are coming out. the signing bonus is 5.5 million, the first years salary is also "guaranteed" (duh they just signed the guy, of course he's getting that) bringing up to 10 million "guaranteed". his second years salary is 6 million. if they "guarantee" that, you get 16 million guaranteed

if we use that same logic and apply it to shields, we get the 12.5 signing bonus, 1.5 million 2014 salary "gauranteed", 2.5 million 2015 salary "guaranteed" and the 2.5 million dollar roster bonus in 2015 which is pretty much "guaranteed".

and you get 19 million "guaranteed", very close to the "guaranteed" money vontae got on a deal that looks to be almost the same deal

[red]

Shields is a much better corner then Davis, top 5 cover corner in the league IMO.

you think?

i don't think so. he's good, don't get me wrong. but i don't know if he's top 5

[3irty1]

He's definitely not top 5 at least not for me. Sherman, Revis, Peterson, Hayden are all much better. I'd rather have Talib, Verner, or McCourty. I'd probably even prefer Carr or Keenan Lewis and I'm sure there is someone I'm forgetting.

[Zool]

He's definitely not top 5 at least not for me. Sherman, Revis, Peterson, Hayden are all much better. I'd rather have Talib, Verner, or McCourty. I'd probably even prefer Carr or Keenan Lewis and I'm sure there is someone I'm forgetting.

Based on coverage skills or all-around game?

[3irty1]

Based on coverage skills or all-around game?

I'll say all-around game, 90% of which is cover skills. Shields is awesome in that its a waste of time to try and get vertical on him but I just think that the bigger more physical wide receivers will get the better of him more often than not.

[pbmax]

Yea but Shields gets like 26M in his first 2 seasons so its pretty much the same.

21

[pbmax]

no details yet on the davis deal other then its reported he got 20 million "guaranteed"

however detail on one of the colts other big additions has become available. the team reported that arthur jones got 16 million "guaranteed"

the details on jones are coming out. the signing bonus is 5.5 million, the first years salary is also "guaranteed" (duh they just signed the guy, of course he's getting that) bringing up to 10 million "guaranteed". his second years salary is 6 million. if they "guarantee" that, you get 16 million guaranteed

if we use that same logic and apply it to shields, we get the 12.5 signing bonus, 1.5 million 2014 salary "gauranteed", 2.5 million 2015 salary "guaranteed" and the 2.5 million dollar roster bonus in 2015 which is pretty much "guaranteed".

and you get 19 million "guaranteed", very close to the "guaranteed" money vontae got on a deal that looks to be almost the same deal

Ifs guaranteed for injury only, then the second year is NOT like Shields, who has no such provision. But its an escape hatch for the team if he is healthy at the end of season 1. It could be a rent a player deal for one year since his signing bonus acceleration would be covered by his second year salary.

[mraynrand]

Shields is a much better corner then Davis, top 5 cover corner in the league IMO.

I agree. And I think the Packers expect him to get better.

[mraynrand]

I'll say all-around game, 90% of which is cover skills. Shields is awesome in that its a waste of time to try and get vertical on him but I just think that the bigger more physical wide receivers will get the better of him more often than not.

I think the Packers signed him because he can compete with these guys - Megatron, Marshall, Jeffrey, now Patterson and probably Evans. I'd say they get the better of him less often than not, or at the very least that's what the Packers are counting on.

[Brandon494]

I'm talking about coverage skills, not all around game. Also you can argue that Shields has faced tougher opponents then the guys mentioned above and they actually had safeties worth a shit covering their ass.

[mraynrand]

I'm talking about coverage skills, not all around game. Also you can argue that Shields has faced tougher opponents then the guys mentioned above and they actually had safeties worth a shit covering their ass.

Shields can stay with anyone, even if he gets pushed off, because of his speed. He also locates the ball well and competes. but sure, he can get shoved around a bit. That's the Deion in him.

[red]

his speed really comes in handy in our system where our cb's cover their guys for 10 yards, then are suppose to pass them off to the safeties, who may or may not be there

when the safety isn't there, its nice to have that "oh shit" speed in order to try and catch back up to the wr's

[mraynrand]

when the safety isn't there, its nice to have that "oh shit" speed in order to try and catch back up to the wr's

:)

[Smeefers]

I wouldn't call shields a top five, but he's a top 15, which is what we paid for. He's a second tier guy. Corners are expensive.

[mraynrand]

I like Shields over Hayden, is close to Peterman. Better coverage than Hayden, but not as good a tackler. Covers as well as Peterman, but not as stout at the point of attack. Just as good, if not better make up speed. Competes for the ball as well; not consistently as good making a play on the ball (less chance for INTs).

[Brandon494]

Shields isn't better then Hayden but hes a top 5 cover guy whos getting better at tackling. He can shut down WRs like AJ Green and Josh Gordon but still gives up big plays which I think has more do to the safety play behind him.

[pbmax]

his speed really comes in handy in our system where our cb's cover their guys for 10 yards, then are suppose to pass them off to the safeties, who may or may not be there

Best capsule I will read of the Packers defensive backfield in 2013. Repped.

EDITED TO CORRECT USER ERROR, CATEGORY EGREGIOUS

[Joemailman]

Best capsule I will read of the Packers defensive backfield in 2012. Repped.

2013?

[pbmax]

2013?

Can't really blame that on Auto Correct, can I?

[denverYooper]

his speed really comes in handy in our system where our cb's cover their guys for 10 yards, then are suppose to pass them off to the safeties, who may or may not be there

when the safety isn't there, its nice to have that "oh shit" speed in order to try and catch back up to the wr's

It looked like he covered for missing safeties more than once and it made him look bad at times. I have a feeling it made him look out of place and brought his grade down in outsider grading systems like PFF's.

[bobblehead]

I'll say all-around game, 90% of which is cover skills. Shields is awesome in that its a waste of time to try and get vertical on him but I just think that the bigger more physical wide receivers will get the better of him more often than not.

AJ Green and many others might disagree.

[red]

no details yet on the davis deal other then its reported he got 20 million "guaranteed"

however detail on one of the colts other big additions has become available. the team reported that arthur jones got 16 million "guaranteed"

the details on jones are coming out. the signing bonus is 5.5 million, the first years salary is also "guaranteed" (duh they just signed the guy, of course he's getting that) bringing up to 10 million "guaranteed". his second years salary is 6 million. if they "guarantee" that, you get 16 million guaranteed

if we use that same logic and apply it to shields, we get the 12.5 signing bonus, 1.5 million 2014 salary "gauranteed", 2.5 million 2015 salary "guaranteed" and the 2.5 million dollar roster bonus in 2015 which is pretty much "guaranteed".

and you get 19 million "guaranteed", very close to the "guaranteed" money vontae got on a deal that looks to be almost the same deal

NAILED IT!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/vontae-davis/

vontae got a 5 million dollar signing bonus, fully guaranteed 2014 salary of 5 million (first year take home of 10 million, shields will get 14 million this year). next year he has a roster bonus of 6 million, and a "guaranteed" (not sure if its for injury only or not) base salary in 2015 of 4 million.

it could be a 1 year 10 million dollar deal if that 2015 salary is guaranteed for injury only. but i'f you're going to give him 10 million this year, why not give him 10 next year too? really his cap numbers never look all that bad except for 2015. his cap number is never more then the last 2 years of shields contract

so, sam will take home almost 15 million in 2014
vontae will take home 10

shields take home for the first 2 years is 21 million
vontae will take home 20 million over 2 years

here's shields numbers for comparison sake

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/sam-shields/

so even though it looked like the davis deal was larger because of the "guaranatees". shields actually got the bigger deal

so we come back to my statement that the packers and shields set the market, and no one has gotten as good of a deal anywhere else yet

hell, even revis is only going to take home 12 million this year compared to shields 15

[pbmax]

You got it Red. Sam made out like a bandit for 2 years. I hope he stays hungry enough to see the rest of that deal. There is still $18 mil on the backend.

[Fritz]

Had we lost Shields, Red woulda been the first Roman to hammer Ted to the cross.

[red]

i don't know about that

i'm thinking that if we had spent that 9 million on byrd and let shields walk, then our secondary overall would have been better

i'm glad shields is back, i do think he's a good player. just not an elite player, which is what we just paid him like he was

byrd imo, is an elite safety, and deserved to be paid like a top safety

[Fritz]

We shall see!

[pbmax]

i don't know about that

i'm thinking that if we had spent that 9 million on byrd and let shields walk, then our secondary overall would have been better

i'm glad shields is back, i do think he's a good player. just not an elite player, which is what we just paid him like he was

byrd imo, is an elite safety, and deserved to be paid like a top safety

Nope. We are short an outside cover guy. House is next in line and he underperformed last year. Crabtree was roasting him until they rolled coverage over him.

[red]

Nope. We are short an outside cover guy. House is next in line and he underperformed last year. Crabtree was roasting him until they rolled coverage over him.

your #4 cb shouldn't be covering crabtree without any kind of help in the first place

and house as #4 cb is better then unnamed undrafted rookie B starting at safety, which i wouldn't put past TT after what we witnessed him do last season

[pbmax]

your #4 cb shouldn't be covering crabtree without any kind of help in the first place

and house as #4 cb is better then unnamed undrafted rookie B starting at safety, which i wouldn't put past TT after what we witnessed him do last season

Calling him #4 is misleading though. Hyde and Hayward are not playing outside unless Tramontana and Shields get hurt. House IS the backup outside corner.

[Brandon494]

Calling him #4 is misleading though. Hyde and Hayward are not playing outside unless Tramontana and Shields get hurt. House IS the backup outside corner.

Yea because Hayward was out, actually House is our #5 CB. :-P Either way I still don't understand how House matched up with Crabtree unless they were playing a zone coverage.

[pbmax]

Yea because Hayward was out, actually House is our #5 CB. :-P Either way I still don't understand how House matched up with Crabtree unless they were playing a zone coverage.

Hard to say about Hayward, he missed some camp so they might have tried him outside, but don't recall it with what we saw. House was the #3 outside CB all year long. Shields and Tramontana started, House was the first one there if one was hurt.

House on Crabtree happened after Shields went out. Tramon was on Boldin and they started with the single safety helping cover VD over the top. After Crab got several catches versus House, they alternated a bit with safety help either on VD or Crab depending on alignment or down and distance, wasn't sure. Not much zone that I saw.

Wasn't a tire fire, but House was rarely in a position to make a play on the ball. He needs to play. I don't think he can learn anymore in the classroom or on the practice field.

[mraynrand]

House held up reasonably well, for being thrown into that fire, after his abysmal play, the ass-kicking he took leading to being benched up to that point.

[Patler]

i'm thinking that if we had spent that 9 million on byrd and let shields walk, then our secondary overall would have been better

i'm glad shields is back, i do think he's a good player. just not an elite player, which is what we just paid him like he was

byrd imo, is an elite safety, and deserved to be paid like a top safety

I think TT's approach is that it is far less risky to overpay by a little for the guy that you know very, very well than it is to give the same money to a guy you know only from film. For what it's worth, Ron Wolf seems to agree with him, unless you are talking about a truly elite, team culture changing player who goes beyond just being a top player at his position:


The G.M. admits he was "stumbling around" just trying to figure out free agency. In time, he realized it was overrated, too. The risks outweighed reward.

"What we eventually came around to realizing was rather than run amok in free agency — now these are my words — is you better keep your own players and pay a little bit more for them," Wolf said, "because you know everything about them than to bring somebody new in that you don't know anything about. Through trail and error, that's more or less what we decided to do.

"That doesn't mean, however, that you don't lean in there."

He quickly adds that Charles Woodson, after Reggie White and Deion Sanders, is the best free-agent signing ever. Paying up paid off.

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ron-wolf-endorses-the-ted-thompson-approach-b99225702z1-250889001.html#ixzz2wUVJ3Evx
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

[mraynrand]

i don't know about that

i'm thinking that if we had spent that 9 million on byrd and let shields walk, then our secondary overall would have been better

i'm glad shields is back, i do think he's a good player. just not an elite player, which is what we just paid him like he was

byrd imo, is an elite safety, and deserved to be paid like a top safety


elitist!