James Starks back on 2 year deal

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Packers are expected to re-sign free agent James Starks to a two-year contract.
Starks visited the Steelers on Monday and reportedly had two other teams interested in him. After rushing for 493 yards and three scores on 89 carries (5.5 YPC), it's a little surprising the 28-year-old couldn't find a team to offer him a chance to compete for a bigger role. In Green Bay, he'll return as the No. 2 behind Eddie Lacy, leaving DuJuan Harris and Johnathan Franklin fighting for scraps.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/285258/report-james-starks-to-re-sign-with-packers

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Actually I guess he didn't officially sign lol

[red]

very interesting, considering how much the coaching staff thinks of harris, and how high of a draft pick franklin was, and how injury prone we know starks is

i don't see us keeping 4 on the roster, who's the odd man out, or do we keep all 3?

[Joemailman]

This is a surprise. That is going to be one crowded backfield with DuJuan Harris back.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I think we keep all of them. They have shown in the past that they are more than willing to keep an uneven roster if those were the most talented players. Lacy and Starks are locks and Harris and Franklin have too much talent.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think we keep them all, if they even stay healthy. Four RBs isn't that unusual. Three of our guys have had injuries, and Lacy's running style likely increases his risk of injury. I like it.

[Brandon494]

Surprising signing but I like it.

[mraynrand]

... leaving DuJuan Harris and Johnathan Franklin fighting for scraps.

James (tony) Starks built a running back in a cave...with a box of SCRAPS!

[Patler]

Not too long ago it was standard for them to keep two FBs and three RBs. As they kept more TE's, they dropped that down to 1 FB. Who knows if they will have any FBs this year.

[packer4life]

As long as Starks or Lacy starts the upcoming 16 games, our running game will be set. Now that is an idea I like.

[gbgary]

This is a surprise. That is going to be one crowded backfield with DuJuan Harris back.

yup but they'll be all be needed either for relief or replacement. glad they got him back.

[Guiness]

A little surprised he found no interest. I assume he signed for little more than vet minimum. He's a hard runner and showed something last year.

[smuggler]

Signs are on the wall that DuJuan might be our left-field roster shave. :C

[pbmax]

Its clear to me now that Mike McCarthy doesn't have any idea how to use his personnel and that Thompson has no idea how to assign cap value to offensive assets.. A running game? In today's game? Is he Chip Kelly? Or just a modern version of "the playoffs are good enough" Schottenheimer?

Even McGinn knows its only cold for December and maybe a playoff game or two. What will the offense do the other 12 games? Draw plays on 3rd and 8?

You put that slow, lumbering attack out there and teams like the Broncos, Patriots, Saints and Bears are simply going to outscore it. By the time M3 decides which back will have a 5 yard gain on first down, Manning will pass three times and score twice. That's 14-0. DO THE MATH!!

[pbmax]

Seriously, I might have used this money to bring back Jones. I agree with Harv's point about backup being key with Lacy and the injury history, but receiver looks a little thin with an All-Pro QB on the roster.

Maybe Boykin and Johnson and future 2nd round WR will be all that, but I will miss Jones and I bet the offense does for a while anyway.

As for Starks being back, it looks like a monster 1-2 punch. Outside of 3rd down, he looks like the prefect complement to Lacy.

[Teamcheez1]

James Jones was a nice guy and a great Packer, but I don't lose too much sleep over our #3 receiver.

Starks is a great complement to Lacy. You just don't expect RB's to play 16 games anymore. I'm not worried about running up the score as much as controlling the ball game to help our defense.

[Bossman641]

Surprised by the signing, but Starks ran super hard this year. Snaps are going to be hard to come by for Harris/Franklin, especially with MM talking earlier in the offseason how he wanted Lacy to be a 3 down back.

[Pugger]

Will we keep all 4 RBs and Kuhn??

[Kiwon]

Jones will be missed. But having a couple of quality backs that can help control the pace of the game and block on play-action will help everyone on the outside.

[run pMc]

Surprised by the signing, but Starks ran super hard this year. Snaps are going to be hard to come by for Harris/Franklin, especially with MM talking earlier in the offseason how he wanted Lacy to be a 3 down back.

This.

I think it sends a good message to the group that they are going to have to fight for snaps. Harris and Franklin aren't gonna be given anything.
Like others I worry about Lacy/Starks staying healthy and with all the injuries GB has had, that depth will be needed.

There were times Starks ran like a madman last season and wished he got more snaps. Good change of pace from Lacy and if he runs like that again I'll be glad we re-signed him.

[Brandon494]

Its clear to me now that Mike McCarthy doesn't have any idea how to use his personnel and that Thompson has no idea how to assign cap value to offensive assets.. A running game? In today's game? Is he Chip Kelly? Or just a modern version of "the playoffs are good enough" Schottenheimer?

Even McGinn knows its only cold for December and maybe a playoff game or two. What will the offense do the other 12 games? Draw plays on 3rd and 8?

You put that slow, lumbering attack out there and teams like the Broncos, Patriots, Saints and Bears are simply going to outscore it. By the time M3 decides which back will have a 5 yard gain on first down, Manning will pass three times and score twice. That's 14-0. DO THE MATH!!

What do you mean? Of those teams you mentioned only the Bears had a primary ball carrier, the other teams used multiple backs and unlike the Bears they made the playoffs.

[Patler]

James Jones was a nice guy and a great Packer, but I don't lose too much sleep over our #3 receiver.

Starks is a great complement to Lacy. You just don't expect RB's to play 16 games anymore. I'm not worried about running up the score as much as controlling the ball game to help our defense.

Except that in recent years, the #3 WR becomes the #2, even the #1 for quite a few games each year, it seems.

[denverYooper]

What do you mean? Of those teams you mentioned only the Bears had a primary ball carrier, the other teams used multiple backs and unlike the Bears they made the playoffs.

And the Packers will probably have at least 2 RBs on IR by the end of the year.

[pbmax]

What do you mean? Of those teams you mentioned only the Bears had a primary ball carrier, the other teams used multiple backs and unlike the Bears they made the playoffs.

That was my wist impersonation, McCarthy version.

Obviously, it wasn't quite up to snuff.

[red]

And the Packers will probably have at least 2 RBs on IR by the end of the year.

try before the end of pre season

starks stayed healthy all last year, he's due for a major season ending injury

[Patler]

starks stayed healthy all last year, he's due for a major season ending injury

Are your standards that low for everyone, or just Starks?;-):lol:
He missed three games last year.
Of course, for him maybe that is being healthy all year!

[red]

Are your standards that low for everyone, or just Starks?;-):lol:
He missed three games last year.
Of course, for him maybe that is being healthy all year!

i'd say thats pretty good for him

anything more then a half season out of him is a bonus

his rookie year, he played 3 games
2nd year he played 13
3rd year he played 6
last year he played 13

i see a pattern there

[Joemailman]

i'd say thats pretty good for him

anything more then a half season out of him is a bonus

his rookie year, he played 3 games
2nd year he played 13
3rd year he played 6
last year he played 13

i see a pattern there

So he'll play in either 9 or 12 games this year. Depends on whether you think his games played in an even number year with increase by 3, or double.

[pittstang5]

If all 4 RBs stay healthy and all light up pre-season, Starks could be trade bait. Sorry, but he's the odd man out.

[Smeefers]

A little surprised he found no interest. I assume he signed for little more than vet minimum. He's a hard runner and showed something last year.

It's a young man's game. Especially at RB (aloha?)

[denverYooper]

So he'll play in either 9 or 12 games this year. Depends on whether you think his games played in an even number year with increase by 3, or double.

Look who's all ready for the ACT :).

[woodbuck27]

Its clear to me now that Mike McCarthy doesn't have any idea how to use his personnel and that Thompson has no idea how to assign cap value to offensive assets.. A running game? In today's game? Is he Chip Kelly? Or just a modern version of "the playoffs are good enough" Schottenheimer?

Even McGinn knows its only cold for December and maybe a playoff game or two. What will the offense do the other 12 games? Draw plays on 3rd and 8?

You put that slow, lumbering attack out there and teams like the Broncos, Patriots, Saints and Bears are simply going to outscore it. By the time M3 decides which back will have a 5 yard gain on first down, Manning will pass three times and score twice. That's 14-0. DO THE MATH!!

Yes the money would have been better spent on James Jones and he would have been estatic to return.

We have lots at RB and I like James Starks.

All the same it would have been (Aaron Rodgers >>> James Jones) more assurance with the situation next off season and Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb as UFA's to retain the WR over the RB. I see the TT gave him a 2 year contract and as I posted earlier in another thread. Maybe that was the max. time that TT had Russ Ball offer James Jones; and 'of course' he got three years signing in Oakland.

The NFL is a pass driven league NOT running driven. I'm disappointed that TT didn't value James Jones more.

The running game and blocking...what's up with TT and FB John Kuhn !?

This fella is a fan favourite......Kuuuuuuhn ! We don't get past da Bears without John Kuhn's huge block last season on Julius Peppers in the last play of the game that secured the huge win.

GO PACK GO !

[Guiness]

Yes the money would have been better spent on James Jones and he would have been estatic to return.

We have lots at RB and I like James Starks.

All the same it would have been (Aaron Rodgers >>> James Jones) more assurance with the situation next off season and Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb as UFA's to retain the WR over the RB. I see the TT gave him a 2 year contract and as I posted earlier in another thread. Maybe that was the max. time that TT had Russ Ball offer James Jones; and 'of course' he got three years signing in Oakland.

The NFL is a pass driven league NOT running driven. I'm disappointed that TT didn't value James Jones more.

The running game and blocking...what's up with TT and FB John Kuhn !?

This fella is a fan favourite......Kuuuuuuhn ! We don't get past da Bears without John Kuhn's huge block last season on Julius Peppers in the last play of the game that secured the huge win.

GO PACK GO !

I suspect the JJ decision was based on 2 things - they are happy with the development of Boykin as the #3, and may have decided he has already surpassed Jones, and the desire for the #4 and 5 WRs to be more developmental/ST roles.

If Boykin pushed Jones down to the #4 role there was probably very little chance he made the team out of TC, so the Pack would not want to give him much guaranteed.

[pbmax]

With Jones gone, will there be half as many deep throws on 3rd and short or will Nelson see the ball twice as much in that situation?

[Fritz]

The latter.

Or if Cobb's healthy, he'll get those throws.

[mraynrand]

Will we keep all 4 RBs and Kuhn??

I think it depends on whether McCarthy trusts his backup QB situation. Last year, Kuhn was calling protections and getting people lined up properly when Flynn was tossed in there. Is Kuhn expendable? Probably. Will McCarthy euthanize his favorite pet? Unlikely.

[denverYooper]

I think it depends on whether McCarthy trusts his backup QB situation. Last year, Kuhn was calling protections and getting people lined up properly when Flynn was tossed in there. Is Kuhn expendable? Probably. Will McCarthy euthanize his favorite pet? Unlikely.

At the very least, they're content to let the old dog out without a leash. If he saunters off and finds a quiet place to lie down for eternity, so be it. Most likely he'll go pee a few shrubs and come back in for supper.

[mraynrand]

As long as he doesn't chew up the carpet or soil the furniture, Stubby will keep him around, even if he has to convince TT that the fleas and worms are really a good thing.

[KYPack]

I like having Starks. His style compliments Eddie pretty well. The pounder and the slasher. Starks has improved from terrible in pass pro to adequate and his rushing is a good asset. I've always felt James upright running style leaves him susceptible to injury, but that ain't exactly a secret by now.

Now it's a competition for that 3rd spot. Both guys are scat backs, liabilities in pass pro. Harris is real small, but sticks his nose in there. Franklin is a little bigger, but is basically clueless about protection, so it will be interesting to see how those two shake out. MM seems to have a thing about Harris, feels he is a weapon. If DuJuan's knee is sound, he'd seem to have the inside track.

FB? We've got one on the roster. This probably deserves it's own thread.

[denverYooper]

As long as he doesn't chew up the carpet or soil the furniture, Stubby will keep him around, even if he has to convince TT that the fleas and worms are really a good thing.

People have been known to keep their favorite pets around long after incontinence becomes a fact of life.

[3irty1]

I hope this signing doesn't mean the end for Harris. Harris was the real deal at the end of 2012.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

People have been known to keep their favorite pets around long after incontinence becomes a fact of life.

Old people too. Not that I know of any people like that....

Just sayin....

[pbmax]

I like having Starks. His style compliments Eddie pretty well. The pounder and the slasher.

This. A thousand times this. M3 doesn't go much for zigging when the opponent expects you to zag. He pretty much tries to dictate once he sees your defense aligned. If you crowd the box and play single safety, Rodgers is expected to channel Daryl Lamonica.

Starks was instant game plan scrambler for McCarthy. You could see the defenses not ready for the ZBS blocking nor his takeoff speed through the hole after his cut. It was astonishing to see it executed so well. Just like Jeff Jagodzinski drew it up in 2006.

[pbmax]

DuJuan Harris 2012


2012 Regular Season
Rush Rush Rush Rush Rece Rece Rece Rece Scor Scor
Rk G Date Age Tm Opp Result Att Yds Y/A TD Rec Yds Y/R TD TD Pts
1 13 2012-12-09 24-097 GNB DET W 27-20 7 31 4.43 1 0 0 0 1 6
2 14 2012-12-16 24-104 GNB CHI W 21-13 5 27 5.40 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 15 2012-12-23 24-111 GNB TEN W 55-7 8 29 3.63 1 0 0 0 1 6
4 16 2012-12-30 24-118 GNB MIN L 34-37 14 70 5.00 0 2 17 8.50 0 0 0
4 Games 3-1-0 34 157 4.62 2 2 17 8.50 0 2 12
2012 Playoffs
Rush Rush Rush Rush Rece Rece Rece Rece Scor Scor
Rk G Date Age Tm Opp Result Att Yds Y/A TD Rec Yds Y/R TD TD Pts
1 17 2013-01-05 24-124 GNB MIN W 24-10 17 47 2.76 1 5 53 10.60 0 1 6
2 18 2013-01-12 24-131 GNB SFO L 31-45 11 53 4.82 1 2 11 5.50 0 1 6
2 Games 1-1-0 28 100 3.57 2 7 64 9.14 0 2 12


OK. Help me along here. I remember him getting better as he got more carries and he had some nice runs that other backs were not breaking that year. The O line wasn't doing him many favors, though EDS did help after he went in for Saturday.

When did Harris convince you he had it?

[mraynrand]

Stubby claimed to have a whole offense for Harris before he got hurt last year. Either that's still true and Harris is in like Fynn, or Stubby changed his mind when he saw what he had in Lacy and Starks duo. Or both. If they keep Harris, it is both of course. Question is, is whether Stubby was just engaging in wishful thinking, or if he really though he had something special in Harris. Question 2 is whether the offense can do both the Lacy/Stark plug duo and a Harris offense in the same game plan. Seems like a lot on the table, but if the Pack doesn't replace Finley and Jones, maybe it becomes necessary.

[pbmax]

Stubby claimed to have a whole offense for Harris before he got hurt last year. Either that's still true and Harris is in like Fynn, or Stubby changed his mind when he saw what he had in Lacy and Starks duo. Or both. If they keep Harris, it is both of course. Question is, is whether Stubby was just engaging in wishful thinking, or if he really though he had something special in Harris. Question 2 is whether the offense can do both the Lacy/Stark plug duo and a Harris offense in the same game plan. Seems like a lot on the table, but if the Pack doesn't replace Finley and Jones, maybe it becomes necessary.

I remember M3 being absolutely convinced, I just don't remember the same level of excitement about Harris as Lacy. Think of him more as change up, but perhaps I would feel differently if I watched the Chicago game again.

[red]

DuJuan Harris 2012


2012 Regular Season
Rush Rush Rush Rush Rece Rece Rece Rece Scor Scor
Rk G Date Age Tm Opp Result Att Yds Y/A TD Rec Yds Y/R TD TD Pts
1 13 2012-12-09 24-097 GNB DET W 27-20 7 31 4.43 1 0 0 0 1 6
2 14 2012-12-16 24-104 GNB CHI W 21-13 5 27 5.40 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 15 2012-12-23 24-111 GNB TEN W 55-7 8 29 3.63 1 0 0 0 1 6
4 16 2012-12-30 24-118 GNB MIN L 34-37 14 70 5.00 0 2 17 8.50 0 0 0
4 Games 3-1-0 34 157 4.62 2 2 17 8.50 0 2 12
2012 Playoffs
Rush Rush Rush Rush Rece Rece Rece Rece Scor Scor
Rk G Date Age Tm Opp Result Att Yds Y/A TD Rec Yds Y/R TD TD Pts
1 17 2013-01-05 24-124 GNB MIN W 24-10 17 47 2.76 1 5 53 10.60 0 1 6
2 18 2013-01-12 24-131 GNB SFO L 31-45 11 53 4.82 1 2 11 5.50 0 1 6
2 Games 1-1-0 28 100 3.57 2 7 64 9.14 0 2 12


OK. Help me along here. I remember him getting better as he got more carries and he had some nice runs that other backs were not breaking that year. The O line wasn't doing him many favors, though EDS did help after he went in for Saturday.

When did Harris convince you he had it?

yeah, i never did understand where all the harris love came from

his big breakout at the end of 2012 was 6 games where he had 257 yards and 4 TD's. just over 40 yards per game

and based on this, people were ready to make him the starter before we drafted lacy. hell, even after we drafted lacy there was talk of harris being the starter

i never saw it, and i don't know what game M3 was watching for him to think that either

[mraynrand]

I just figured Stubby got real tired of having his cherished deep vertical game shut down, and not having anyone able to shred it underneath. Harris was that guy - run and pass catching. But when they got Lacy, they could punish those 6 man boxes with the run. And Lacy is much better than Harris as a RB so that they actually can force guys up into the box and scorch defenses with play action. APRH

[pbmax]

I just figured Stubby got real tired of having his cherished deep vertical game shut down, and not having anyone able to shred it underneath. Harris was that guy - run and pass catching. But when they got Lacy, they could punish those 6 man boxes with the run. And Lacy is much better than Harris as a RB so that they actually can force guys up into the box and scorch defenses with play action. APRH

I agree he wants team's to pay for 2 deep safeties. If they get 3irty1's deep threat he mentioned earlier, they are going to look like the 1976 Oakland Raiders.

[Fritz]

I agree he wants team's to pay for 2 deep safeties. If they get 3irty1's deep threat he mentioned earlier, they are going to look like the 1976 Oakland Raiders.

Is Jordy Nelson Fred Biletnikoff?

Per your other post: Good Darly Lamonica reference, too.

Can Rodgers ever figure out the damn two-deep? I hope he learns how to dump it off and get seven yards out of it. Maybe that was how Harris figured in?

[pbmax]

Is Jordy Nelson Fred Biletnikoff?

Per your other post: Good Darly Lamonica reference, too.

Can Rodgers ever figure out the damn two-deep? I hope he learns how to dump it off and get seven yards out of it. Maybe that was how Harris figured in?

Yeah, his inability or refusal to throw to empty holes in zones does't help. McCarthy probably doesn't help by emphasizing looking deep first, to short.

A RB that can catch a pass and either get a 1st or cut the needed distance in half on first and second down would definitely help. Same with screens. Problem is with empty sets and then seeing two deep. Rodgers needs to work with receivers to agree to settle down in empty zone holes and throw it there. Might need Antonio Freeman's help.

I have seen Rodgers bypass those throws before and I am not sure why.

[run pMc]

Agree the numbers on Harris weren't huge, but I think it was all about context and expectations. They pulled the guy from a car dealership, and at that point the fans had suffered through:

No healthy RBs in preseason except Marc Tyler
Cedric Benson's abbreviated career as a Packer
James Starks getting hurt and playing 3 games
Alex Green as leading rusher despite averaging about 2ypc.
TT getting Ryan Grant to come back and play.

Harris was hardly a workhorse, but you could see his legs were fresh, he was strong for his size, and provided a little spark. I think the OL enjoyed blocking for him, even if they weren't very good at it.

They have nothing to lose by bringing Harris into TC and seeing how he looks after the injury. I wouldn't be surprised if they keep 4RB's + Kuhn if they re-sign him. They can play Franklin on ST (or he's a game day inactive), but I wouldn't think they continue the Franklin as KR experiment.

[run pMc]

I have seen Rodgers bypass those throws before and I am not sure why.

I have witnessed and wondered this many times. For a guy who is turnover-averse, you'd think he'd be ok with the occasional checkdown. I'd think getting a RB the ball in space would be a positive matchup in most cases.

[3irty1]

Harris had the vision and decisiveness to work as a zone runner between the tackles which was all it took to stand out in 2012. For me it was his speed that made him exciting. When he'd make his cut it seemed like he just had a gear that none of our other guys have where he would get the next level fast enough to have linebackers lunging. I think as a change of pace back he's pretty much ideal, he's got the HR speed to do big damage with few carries and you don't have to wonder about if he's big enough to hold up for a season. I think he's the only Packers running back who can outrun a secondary.

[Fritz]

I have witnessed and wondered this many times. For a guy who is turnover-averse, you'd think he'd be ok with the occasional checkdown. I'd think getting a RB the ball in space would be a positive matchup in most cases.


Hear, hear. What both of you said. If you go empty backfield, then look for the tight end or a receiver setting down in a zone. How many times, on, say, second and seven, have you seen Rodgers back, looking, looking, and there's Kuhn or the running back du jour in the middle, the nearest player a linebacker seven or eight yards away. Rodgers sees him....and keeps looking downfield, and here comes the defensive end on one side and a defensive tackle up the middle and Rodgers sidesteps them, looks, Kuhn's waving his arms "HEY MUTHAFUGGA!" but Rodgers looks past him, and oh no, he's been sacked! Again!

"Goddamn offensive line!" we all scream.

[Brandon494]

Harris passed the eye test for me but maybe thats just because our other RBs sucked at the time. Its no denying his speed though which is something none of our other RBs have, Harris in the screen game could be dangerous.

[mraynrand]

Can Rodgers ever figure out the damn two-deep? I hope he learns how to dump it off and get seven yards out of it. Maybe that was how Harris figured in?

On a late Packer drive in the opener at SF, needing about 10 for a first down, Rodgers focused in on Jordy working against a deep cover 2. lacy came open about 5 yards downfield and had ten yards open in front of him. Rodgers never saw him, never looked for him. If there's something to work on in the offseason for Stubby and Rodgers, it is the whole check down stratagem. Long to short was the old mantra; they need to come up with something more effective...

[bobblehead]

yeah, i never did understand where all the harris love came from

his big breakout at the end of 2012 was 6 games where he had 257 yards and 4 TD's. just over 40 yards per game

and based on this, people were ready to make him the starter before we drafted lacy. hell, even after we drafted lacy there was talk of harris being the starter

i never saw it, and i don't know what game M3 was watching for him to think that either

I'm with you red. All last year when MM was saying that stuff in TC I was saying it was coach speak for "he is too small and isn't going to make the roster, but he might light a fire under my other guys"

[Fritz]

On a late Packer drive in the opener at SF, needing about 10 for a first down, Rodgers focused in on Jordy working against a deep cover 2. lacy came open about 5 yards downfield and had ten yards open in front of him. Rodgers never saw him, never looked for him. If there's something to work on in the offseason for Stubby and Rodgers, it is the whole check down stratagem. Long to short was the old mantra; they need to come up with something more effective...

Maybe they've been listening to my girlfriend; she says meeting me was going long to short, and she misses long.

[pbmax]

I'm with you red. All last year when MM was saying that stuff in TC I was saying it was coach speak for "he is too small and isn't going to make the roster, but he might light a fire under my other guys"

Possibly. But M3 was singing the Harris tune in the Spring as well and he acknowledged in camp that Harris' injury forced him to junk the work he did to customize the run game for him. I think he was serious.

But I suspect that run game looked more like Sproles running game (in space) than Lacy.

[smuggler]

I think he's a nice change of pace guy, and I definitely liked what I saw from Harris in 2012 better than what I saw from Franklin last year. However, Harris' knee injury was serious and there's no guarantee he'll return to full health. Just gotta hope for the best. I love him as a receiving back.

[mraynrand]

Maybe they've been listening to my girlfriend; she says meeting me was going long to short, and she misses long.

http://viagra200mg.name/viagra1.png

[Smidgeon]

I think he's a nice change of pace guy, and I definitely liked what I saw from Harris in 2012 better than what I saw from Franklin last year. However, Harris' knee injury was serious and there's no guarantee he'll return to full health. Just gotta hope for the best. I love him as a receiving back.

Not me. I'll take Franklin's Cincinnati game over any of Harris' previous games. However, in terms of consistency...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not me. I'll take Franklin's Cincinnati game over any of Harris' previous games. However, in terms of consistency...

Franklin's Cincinnati showed more promise than he had shown, but it wasn't that special. He basically broke off a long run (otherwise, he averaged a little over 4 yards/carry, 23 yards on 3 receptions, and had a fumble). I think Harris showed more in 2012. If I didn't know any better and you told me that Franklin was the UFDA and Harris was the 4th round pick, I wouldn't be surprised. That being said, the Cincinnati game gave us a glimmer of hope for Franklin and Harris is coming off a serious injury.

[Fritz]

Franklin better hang on to the damn ball in TC, or I can see him hitting the road - where he'll drop his suitcase when he gets jostled by someone.

[SMBASS]

Details on Starks new deal.

@BobMcGinn: #Packers made commitment to James Starks as Eddie Lacy's backup. His 2-year, $3.166M deal has $725,000 in guaranteed money. '14 cap: $1.37M.

[red]

Details on Starks new deal.

@BobMcGinn: #Packers made commitment to James Starks as Eddie Lacy's backup. His 2-year, $3.166M deal has $725,000 in guaranteed money. '14 cap: $1.37M.

wow, no monetary respect for RB's at all anymore

[Brandon494]

wow, no monetary respect for RB's at all anymore

Yup, I remember when the Browns/Colts trade went down everyone thought the Colts got the better of the deal trading their 1st round pick for Trent Richardson, funny how fast things change.

[Brandon494]

Also could the signing of Starks be the end for Kuhn? I think he'll end up coming back for cheap, where else would he go?

[Joemailman]

Also could the signing of Starks be the end for Kuhn? I think he'll end up coming back for cheap, where else would he go?

Kuhn is still the guy they go to when they want to be damn sure a blitz gets picked up. Until one of the other RB's excel in pass pro, he'll probably have a job here.

[bobblehead]

Yeah, his inability or refusal to throw to empty holes in zones does't help. McCarthy probably doesn't help by emphasizing looking deep first, to short.

A RB that can catch a pass and either get a 1st or cut the needed distance in half on first and second down would definitely help. Same with screens. Problem is with empty sets and then seeing two deep. Rodgers needs to work with receivers to agree to settle down in empty zone holes and throw it there. Might need Antonio Freeman's help.

I have seen Rodgers bypass those throws before and I am not sure why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKAJIvQRSzE&list=PL781D88544DCBE996

Everyone knows why....chics dig the longball.

[Patler]

Details on Starks new deal.

@BobMcGinn: #Packers made commitment to James Starks as Eddie Lacy's backup. His 2-year, $3.166M deal has $725,000 in guaranteed money. '14 cap: $1.37M.

A few more details per the GBPG:

$725,000 signing bonus
$750,000 salary in 2014
$75,000 workout bonus
$11,426/game roster bonus ($182,813 for 16 games).

$1.175 million base salary in 2015
$75,000 roster bonus
$11,426/game roster bonus ($182,813 for 16 games).

[run pMc]

Well, now it's time for Harris to respond. They're paying Starks to be the #2 RB.
I think Harris will compete and M3 will find ways to use Harris.
I don't know where Franklin will fit, aside from competition or to play on ST. He gives them depth for if/when injuries hit, but he wasn't very good as a KOR and he'd be the last RB off the bench. I'm hoping he makes the 2nd year leap and shows more. The CIN game was encouraging, but the rest of the year was not.

(I'm ignoring Kahlil Bell and the other guy they have; I think they are camp bodies and will get released.)

[woodbuck27]

Kuhn is still the guy they go to when they want to be damn sure a blitz gets picked up. Until one of the other RB's excel in pass pro, he'll probably have a job here.

What is another NFL team signs him right from under TT's nose...ie an NFCN team?

What's TT waiting for? Please sign John Kuhn Ted Thompson..

[Cleft Crusty]

It's hard to believe anyone will pay more for Kuhn than for Starks. Kuhn will be fire sale cheap.

[denverYooper]

It's hard to believe anyone will pay more for Kuhn than for Starks. Kuhn will be fire sale cheap.

Yeah, no one seems to have any urgency in pursuing a 31-year-old FB.

His highest value seems to be in GB, where he knows the protections.

[Zool]

If they bother to re-sign Kuhn, they need to stop running the FB dive. It's brutally predictable and completely ineffective.

[red]

It's hard to believe anyone will pay more for Kuhn than for Starks. Kuhn will be fire sale cheap.

agreed

kuhn shouldn't have any more value then starks does

[pbmax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKAJIvQRSzE&list=PL781D88544DCBE996

Everyone knows why....chics dig the longball.

Bowl with Taylor Swift and Jessica Szhor (sp?) in February. He has enough time with the ladies. Checkdown on the Cover 2 in December and January.

Everyone knows you cannot win in the December/January/February without a short passing game.

[pbmax]

A few more details per the GBPG:

$725,000 signing bonus
$750,000 salary in 2014
$75,000 workout bonus
$11,426/game roster bonus ($182,813 for 16 games).

$1.175 million base salary in 2015
$75,000 roster bonus
$11,426/game roster bonus ($182,813 for 16 games).

JSO thinks this means the Packers have made a commitment to Starks as the primary backup. Perhaps for one year, that is true. I am looking forward to it. Can't lie, Lacy and Starks on run downs and Harris/Franklin on 3rd down plus Kuhn doesn't seem half bad.

A year ago this part of the team was a tire fire, esp. after Harris got hurt.

[Teamcheez1]

Being ranked 7th in yards per game isn't exactly a tire fire.

[3irty1]

If they bother to re-sign Kuhn, they need to stop running the FB dive. It's brutally predictable and completely ineffective.

I always thought this too until the one time in late 2012 when they faked a FB dive for an easy TD. MM is master tactician and does an incredible job of self-scouting his offense.
My all-time favorite playcall of his was in this game in 2010 at 2:14:
http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Packers-vs-Lions-Game-Highlights/06b3045f-1de3-4d00-bd4d-0e1c31258ad7

4th and 1, 1 minute left in the 4th quarter, in Detroit, playoff aspirations on the line, backup QB in... the Lions stack the box and show press coverage. MM looks down at his playsheet, then down at the bulge created by his big ol apple bag, then back at his playsheet and orders up a killshot. I mean it didn't work or anything but still I love the message that sends. "There is no situation you can conceive where I will not throw a haymaker." Immediately things started opening up in the running game. We attribute it to Starks but I like to think that it was also in part to the collective asshole puckering of every D coordinator in the game.

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft may have been mistaken. The Packers will have to pay more base for Kuhn than Starks due to the vet minimum, which is 855K for 7-9 year vets.

[pbmax]

Being ranked 7th in yards per game isn't exactly a tire fire.

Was this is response to my tire fire comparison?

I was talking about the run game after the 2012 season. Even with Harris, who would get injured in the offseason prior to 2013, the Packers run game was 16th in attempts and 20th in yards. 22nd in ypa. Without Harris, I think that qualifies a run game for tire fire status.