GB Starting Defense?

[Tony Oday]

FS-Hyde
SS-Burnett
CB1-Shields
CB2-Tramon
Nickle-House
Dime-Hayward

LBs

OLB-CMIII
ILB-Jones
ILB-Hawk
OLB-Perry

5th LB/Line - Peppers

DL
NT-Raji
DE-Neal

I would guess we have a new Dime Back, ILB and DE in the draft as well as a starting FS.

[Brandon494]

We didn't sign Peppers to sit on the bench...

[Tony Oday]

It was more of a dig at Wist. Thats a 2-5 ;) He will be a starter/situational pass rusher

[3irty1]

I'd be very rare to see Tramon, Shields, and House on the field all at the same time. GB has two distinctly separate CB positions: boundary and slot. The third and fourth CB on the field would ideally be Hayward and Hyde covering the two slots. If one of them can't go then Bush.

[Tony Oday]

Hyde is a Safety now correct?

[red]

Hyde is a Safety now correct?

no, or are you talking in this scenario?

m3 has not mentioned hyde being a safety, just said he thinks he can be a 3 down player

the media, and forum type folks are the ones that have already moved hyde in our minds

[run pMc]

Agree that Tramon, Shields, and House on the field would be unusual.

In nickel and other packages I have no idea how they will play Hyde. I think TC will determine how well he takes to playing S. I'd think Hayward would be the nickel guy unless he gets passed up in TC or his injury lingers/relapses.

In dime I've seen them play Burnett, Jennings and McMillian -- before he was cut. Thought having 3 S's in dime was weird, but maybe they didn't trust Bush or wanted to get McMillian snaps.
I think they'll play Hyde as a hybrid CB/S type who takes McMillian's spot in dime (with Hayward the other slot CB). That being the case, they'll still need a FS.


I would guess we have a new Dime Back, ILB and DE in the draft as well as a starting FS.

I think unless Guion shows something we'll see someone who can play NT in the draft. Agree with dime CB and probably ILB. Definitely expecting them to take someone to play FS, although I think they'll need to sign a vet as well. Looking out a year from now -- Raji is either gone or in competition with another NT, Tramon, Peppers, and Guion might be gone, B.Jones might be gone if he doesn't bounce back. I think they'll try to account both for this year and next with some of their picks.

Why Neal at DE? Would think he and Perry will be fighting for a spot at OLB, with him occasionally sliding to nickel DT for pass rush. I'd think they want Datone Jones and Worthy, Boyd, Daniels, or even Guion at DE spots (in a 3-3 or 3-4 front) over Neal. In a 2 DL front I could see him getting snaps, but I think they want to move these tweeners (Peppers, Perry, Neal and maybe even Datone) around. If Mulumba sees the field it will be at OLB.

[Zool]

I'd put Hayward ahead of House in every scenario but injury.

[wist43]

It was more of a dig at Wist. Thats a 2-5 ;) He will be a starter/situational pass rusher

You throw that lineup out there like that, and I'm the opposing OC?? I'll just run it down your throat and never have to worry about throwing a pick, b/c I can just run it down your throat.

[smuggler]

CB - Shields
CB - Tramon
Slot - Hayward
FS - Burnett
SS - Richardson

ILB/MLB - Hawk
ILB/OLB - BJones
OLB - Matthews

OLB/DE - Peppers (Perry can spell at DE or may be the first option there.)
5T/3T - Worthy / Daniels
NT - Raji
5T/DE - Datone / Neal

Corners are solid if Hayward can come back to near rookie form. Defensive line is pretty much good. Could use an upgrade at ILB or either safety slot.

Addition of Guion is intended to push Worthy Datone and Raji.

[mraynrand]

We didn't sign Peppers to sit on the bench...

I wonder. Perhaps he'll start for ego purposes, but I see them platooning him a lot, reducing his snaps dramatically, maybe even as low as 30 per game, and mostly on passing downs.

[smuggler]

Ideally, most teams will be passing against us 40+ times a game.

[gbgary]

I'd put Hayward ahead of House in every scenario but injury.

lol

[Rutnstrut]

I have zero optimism for any starting defense that has Brad Jones in it.

[Tony Oday]

You throw that lineup out there like that, and I'm the opposing OC?? I'll just run it down your throat and never have to worry about throwing a pick, b/c I can just run it down your throat.


Tough to do when AR throws 4 TDs a game and we use Lacy/Starks to grind the second half!

[Brandon494]

I wonder. Perhaps he'll start for ego purposes, but I see them platooning him a lot, reducing his snaps dramatically, maybe even as low as 30 per game, and mostly on passing downs.

Hes 34 so they will rotate him in and out to keep him fresh but he'll be on the field more then Perry or Neal I guarantee that. I don't think you guys realize how talented this guy is...if he would have went to a 3-4 defense instead of signing with the Bears for the money I think he would have been better the Ware. Great coverage skills and hands for someone his size.

[Brandon494]

I have zero optimism for any starting defense that has Brad Jones in it.

You mean like the one that won the Super Bowl?

[3irty1]

You mean like the one that won the Super Bowl?

Brad Jones was on IR for the superbowl.

[Brandon494]

Brad Jones was on IR for the superbowl.

Oh shit never mind, I thought he was one of the guys who stepped up.

[Zool]

Oh shit never mind, I thought he was one of the guys who stepped up.

Not yet. Still waiting for that to happen.

[red]

Not yet. Still waiting for that to happen.

yep, jones and "stepped up", do not belong together

[Joemailman]

Oh shit never mind, I thought he was one of the guys who stepped up.

You confused Jones with Bishop? Are you drinking or smoking? :D

[Joemailman]

no, or are you talking in this scenario?

m3 has not mentioned hyde being a safety, just said he thinks he can be a 3 down player

the media, and forum type folks are the ones that have already moved hyde in our minds

Actually, MM said it was an option:


"Micah, to me, is a multiple-position player," said McCarthy. "I think Micah, just like we talked about the running backs, I'd like to see Micah compete to play all three downs on defense.

"If there's a personnel group that he has to play safety, that's an option. He's also played nickel, he's played dime, he's played corner. He's definitely someone that I think that's earned the opportunity to compete to be on the field all three downs."

[Brandon494]

You confused Jones with Bishop? Are you drinking or smoking? :D

:smk:

[red]

Actually, MM said it was an option:

even with that quote where he says "If there's a personnel group that he has to play safety, that's an option"

it a far cry from "he may be our starting safety next season"

[mraynrand]

Hes 34 so they will rotate him in and out to keep him fresh but he'll be on the field more then Perry or Neal I guarantee that. I don't think you guys realize how talented this guy is...if he would have went to a 3-4 defense instead of signing with the Bears for the money I think he would have been better the Ware. Great coverage skills and hands for someone his size.

Are you kidding me? The guy is Darth Vader. He's frightening. The Force is strong in him, but he's older - no getting around that. So is he episode VI Darth Vader before electrocution or after? I want the before guy, but if they play him too much you'll get the wheezing guy who can't even take off his own helmet.

[red]

Are you kidding me? The guy is Darth Vader. He's frightening. The Force is strong in him, but he's older - no getting around that. So is he episode VI Darth Vader before electrocution or after? I want the before guy, but if they play him too much you'll get the wheezing guy who can't even take off his own helmet.

could be worse, he could be the no talent, series ruining, whinny little pussy he was in the prequels

[pbmax]

could be worse, he could be the no talent, series ruining, whinny little pussy he was in the prequels

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

Takes longer to watch these reviews than to watch the movies. But very funny, none the less.

[Guiness]

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

Takes longer to watch these reviews than to watch the movies. But very funny, none the less.

rofl! hilarious stuff!

[woodbuck27]

CB - Shields
CB - Tramon
Slot - Hayward
FS - Burnett
SS - Richardson

ILB/MLB - Hawk
ILB/OLB - BJones
OLB - Matthews

OLB/DE - Peppers (Perry can spell at DE or may be the first option there.)
5T/3T - Worthy / Daniels
NT - Raji
5T/DE - Datone / Neal

Corners are solid if Hayward can come back to near rookie form. Defensive line is pretty much good. Could use an upgrade at ILB or either safety slot.

Addition of Guion is intended to push Worthy Datone and Raji.

" Corners are solid if Hayward can come back to near rookie form. Defensive line is pretty much good. Could use an upgrade at ILB or either safety slot.

Addition of Guion is intended to push Worthy Datone and Raji." smuggler

Yes. We need to see a solid return of CB Casey Hayward as our backup / nickel CB.

I wanted a vet safety in FA or failing that; a solidly athletic draft pick that will step right in and make an immediate impact.

I'm not comfortable with ILB's AJ Hawk and Brad Jones. We need upgrades there.

We need more at DT. We must have the head of the snake strong. '3' - 4 - 4.

GO PACKERS !

[red]

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

Takes longer to watch these reviews than to watch the movies. But very funny, none the less.

LOL

i know know what i'll be doing today

[smuggler]

Louis Nix and DaQuan Jones are the only rookie 3-4 NTs who could be reasonably expected to contribute anything in 2014.

[mraynrand]

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

Takes longer to watch these reviews than to watch the movies. But very funny, none the less.


I saw those a few years ago, and starting quoting from them. I think for about a year, everyone in my household was going around and saying "What's wrong with your face!?"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZEmFT6VxSw

[gbgary]

I hope we get an impact defender at some position, or two, because other than peppers that's the same defense as last year.

[pbmax]

I saw those a few years ago, and starting quoting from them. I think for about a year, everyone in my household was going around and saying "What's wrong with your face!?"




I liked the attempt to pronounce "protagonist" as "protozoanist" or something like that. Found them through some link a few weeks ago looking for something else movie related. They are too long to get through in one sitting, so I have only seen the first episode review all the way through and bits of the others.

For the first movie at least, I thought he had some very solid points.

[wist43]

I like the potential of our defense - I like the players; but of course, I liked the players last year too. With the exception of Hawk and Jones who I think should be situational, rotation players. As it is, Capers has those guys on the field every play...

Injuries were a factor of course, and the constant reality that is TT's perpetual youth movement, i.e. who could you plug in for Hawk or Jones if they went down?? Everyone else was so raw, that it really was a crap shoot.

Still, I really like Mulumba, and want to see him on the field more.

If Capers can't produce a top-flight defense this year, can we please get rid of the guy?? Just askin?? ;)

[Striker]

We didn't sign Peppers to sit on the bench...

Peppers will probably be in there just to be a pass rush specialist (ala KGB before they decided to try to make him an every down player).

I like what our defense could potentially be, I'd have to think ILB and S will be reinforced by this draft class.

[Fritz]

I think that the obvious need is for a starting caliber safety - a real safety. Is Chris Clemons signed, so the Pack can draft a developmental safety?

But an inside 'backer is needed, too, so B. Jones can be an occasional player and Lattimore can be the same.

It will be interesting to see if Mulumba makes a jump in year two, and if Perry can stay healthy I believe he is a very good pass rusher who can also hold the point - not that he's been great, but he can do it.

I think if you can spot Mike Neal he can be effective.

I'm interested to see if Raji understands how he fubared his big chance, and knows that to get to the big payday he needs to play hard and do what he's asked. He's tried freelancing, and he makes the occasional play, but anyone thinking of signing him also saw, obviously, how many times he tried freelancing and ended up merely being totally out of position.

Finally, I'd like to see TT draft a real nose tackle - an honest-to-gosh, hold-the-point, eat-up-two-blockers nose tackle. I'm hoping he can find this after the third or fourth round.

[Brandon494]

Peppers will probably be in there just to be a pass rush specialist (ala KGB before they decided to try to make him an every down player).

I like what our defense could potentially be, I'd have to think ILB and S will be reinforced by this draft class.

KGB? The guy had 9 INTs as a DE... yes hes greatest attribute is his pass rushing abiliy but you guys are underestimating his ability to drop in coverage.

[red]

I think that the obvious need is for a starting caliber safety - a real safety. Is Chris Clemons signed, so the Pack can draft a developmental safety?


nope, he hasn't signed. and i can't figure out why. there's no talk at all about him anywhere except for a rumor from last week that he had signed with the eagle. that proved to be false

its like the guy has ebola or something

[wist43]

Your starting safety is already on the roster - didn't MM already say that??

I'd like a veteran back there to direct traffic better, but that isn't likely to happen.

I really do like the potential of the defense, just depends on Capers. He's perfectly capable of running a top-flight unit, but just as capable of throwing together complete junk. We'll see.

[Fritz]

One of the starting safeties is on the roster. And I think he intimated that he wants more versatility, so Hyde will have to be able to play some safety. But I don't think MM thinks that Burnett's starting partner is already on the roster. I don't think he likes Richardson that much.

[red]

One of the starting safeties is on the roster. And I think he intimated that he wants more versatility, so Hyde will have to be able to play some safety. But I don't think MM thinks that Burnett's starting partner is already on the roster. I don't think he likes Richardson that much.

again, same thing as the newhouse-sherrod deal

if there was any hope of richardson, banjo or hyde being the future at safety, then why didn't they get more/any playing time at the position last year

jennings was absolutely brutal and a huge liability on almost every play, if they was any hope that the other 3 could do it, then why wasn't the move made?

we had nothing to lose, because it couldn't have gotten any worse

the only guy with any kind of excuse would be hyde, because he still had a sizable role has the #3 cb, but he still could have been at least tried at safety

[mraynrand]

if there was any hope of richardson, banjo or hyde being the future at safety, then why didn't they get more/any playing time at the position last year


recovering from injury, rookie, rookie. Penciled-in starters were occupying those positions until shitting the bed resulted in getting cut. Rookies learn their position, typically with a very limited range of responsibilities; asking them to switch positions in the middle of the year would be pretty astonishing. Asking a guy to come back from a neck injury late in the season and do a lot is also exceptional. Richardson did pretty well for being tossed in there.

[Patler]

Richardson was active for just six games after coming off PUP, but by the end of the year was playing a lot, and took quite a bit of time away from Banjo and Jennings. In the final three regular season games, he played 94 of 181 snaps on defense. Jennings played just 87. I think without any changes in safety personnel, they had Richardson penciled in ahead of Jennings for 2014, which is why they didn't bother even tendering Jennings even though he was their starter all last year.

[pbmax]

Richardson was active for just six games after coming off PUP, but by the end of the year was playing a lot, and took quite a bit of time away from Banjo and Jennings. In the final three regular season games, he played 94 of 181 snaps on defense. Jennings played just 87. I think without any changes in safety personnel, they had Richardson penciled in ahead of Jennings for 2014, which is why they didn't bother even tendering Jennings even though he was their starter all last year.

I think the downside to Richardson is the possibility that the coaches agree with PackerRats and would prefer Burnett close to the LOS. Richardson is not at his best as a deep safety.

[Fritz]

And this is why if they draft a safety I am hoping for a centerfielder type.

[red]

And this is why if they draft a safety I am hoping for a centerfielder type.

and that brings us back to haha, the drafts one true elite centerfielder

pryor is more of a SS that has FS skills, and ward is like a hybrid cb/ss/fs, and bucannon is more of a SS

[Bretsky]

He's nothing flashhy but IMO reliable, smart, and assignment ready. Come on TT....just signe him !!

[Joemailman]

He's nothing flashhy but IMO reliable, smart, and assignment ready. Come on TT....just signe him !!

Who?

[SMBASS]

Who?

Lol...I was wondering the same thing. Do you mean Chris Clemons Bretsky?

[CaliforniaCheez]

Don't be surprised if the Packers draft an inside linebacker. Hawk and Jones will have to be upgraded.

They will still draft a D lineman because Pickett and Peppers are old, Raji's attitude and Wilson has to be upgraded. Guion is unlikely to make the team.

They can use a safety also.

With a hole at TE, Center, WR, and back up QB the offense will take most of the picks.

[run pMc]

Don't be surprised if the Packers draft an inside linebacker. Hawk and Jones will have to be upgraded.

They will still draft a D lineman because Pickett and Peppers are old, Raji's attitude and Wilson has to be upgraded. Guion is unlikely to make the team.

They can use a safety also.

With a hole at TE, Center, WR, and back up QB the offense will take most of the picks.

Pickett and Wilson are FA and unlikely to be signed. Guion will take their place and has a good chance of making the team IMO. I agree they will draft a DL though.
I'm not sure they'll bring Francois back they like him but that's a tough injury and they like to stay young. They have Lattimore and Barrington. They could use another ILB so I wouldn't be surprised if they drafted one. I think Jones and Hawk are replaceable.

I also agree they will look at WR and S earlier, with TE and OL in the mid rounds. If there's a QB they like they'll pick one up but I think they like Tolzien and want to develop him.
It will be BPA with TT but I don't expect an all-offense or all-defense type of draft.

[woodbuck27]

rofl! hilarious stuff!

Yea ... really. :-)

[smuggler]

This is a pretty bad ILB draft, unfortunately.

[woodbuck27]

I think the downside to Richardson is the possibility that the coaches agree with PackerRats and would prefer Burnett close to the LOS. Richardson is not at his best as a deep safety.

Damn it TT has to get a real force at safety on board and he needs to get an ILB.

TT has to not neglect the backup QB position as well.

Safety, ILB, a TE to improve our Red Zone Offense and backup QB.

DT, a versatile OLman, WR/Kick returner. (that's seven picks).


I believe unless TT can get exactly what he wants at pick NO. 21; he'll trade down for an extra Rd. 1-4 pick.

TT should also pick a 6'-1 " or taller CB.

Here's the latest mock after the UCF's Pro day from CBSSports.com.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24493247/nfl-mock-draft-bortles-still-on-top-after-pro-day

2014 NFL Mock Draft: Blake Bortles still on top after Pro Day

By: Will Brinson ... NFL Writer

March 20, 2014 4:05 pm ET

[deake]

If, the injury bug stays away, would moving Mathews to the inside and going with Peppers and Perry on the outside be the best use of personnel?

[Tony Oday]

If, the injury bug stays away, would moving Mathews to the inside and going with Peppers and Perry on the outside be the best use of personnel?

NO! CMIII is a premier pass rusher you don't move him inside.

[3irty1]

If Perry goes on a tear I could see it becoming a pretty common thing. He's one of the most movable pieces on the defense so I could see it as an occasional thing to get the fresh bodies some snaps.

[pbmax]

If Perry goes on a tear I could see it becoming a pretty common thing. He's one of the most movable pieces on the defense so I could see it as an occasional thing to get the fresh bodies some snaps.

Matthews rushing inside against Guards and the Center is actually a good thing. He's more frightening there than outside. However, as you say, there hasn't been much alternative to him at OLB other than stunts.

He's not a slam dunk, game changing pass rusher at OLB. He's effective and must be accounted for by the offense. But a good OT can tie him up. Its part of the reason the Packer pass rush disappears for stretches.

Moving him around would be a good development.

[Brandon494]

I see nothing wrong with it as well, you get your best players on the field.

[mraynrand]

If, the injury bug stays away, would moving Mathews to the inside and going with Peppers and Perry on the outside be the best use of personnel?

Yes! Hurrah! Move Matthews around and put him together with other pass rushers! Stop wasting him against the LT all the time! Plus he can cover TEs and running backs pretty well too when needed. I'm certainly not saying he should be inside all the time, or even the majority of the time, but it shouldn't be uncommon.

[red]

I see nothing wrong with it as well, you get your best players on the field.

but now you're not using your player to do what he does best, rush the passer

you're middle LB will blitz every now and then, but clay's best trait is as a speedy edge rusher

[Brandon494]

No one is saying to move Clay to ILB, we are saying now having Peppers we are more flexible on defense and we are discussing the different possibilities.

[red]

oh, well, i was too lazy to look back at the last page

so, yeah

[3irty1]

Clay's a good pass rusher but clay's also a good everything. I think Perry dictates the possibilities... you've got two edges so you'll need two edge rushers for Clay to get significant time anywhere else. Peppers can be one. Perry was drafted for one reason and one reason only which is to rush the passer. So if he start reaching some of that freak potential he could demand a lot of snaps.

Of course that would require breaking his injury curse by making peace with the great spirits for whatever Indian burial mound he built his cabin on top of.

[wist43]

As I've been pointing out in talking about a 3-3 and a 4-2... you have a lot of flexibility to move people around.

The sack of Vick in the '10 playoff game came on a delayed blitz up the middle out of the 2-4. If Capers utilized the 2-4 in that way, I wouldn't bitch, but Capers has boiled the 2-4 down to a static 4 man rush, and all-but abandoning the middle the of field against the run when he plays it in run/pass situations.

On the sack of Vick, he sent Raji, Jenkins, and 3 LB's - Hawk, Walden, and Matthews, with Matthews coming on a delayed blitz from the middle of the field.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Out of the 3-3, as I've said, you can have 6 legit pass rushers on the field. Down linemen of Peppers, Daniels, D. Jones; and LB's of Matthews, Neal, and Mulumba. If you want coverage, substitute B. Jones for Mulumba, and if you want more versatility substitute Hawk for Mulumba. But that would be my first nickel subpackage.

And the 4-2 would have Peppers, Daniesl, D. Jones, and Perry as down linemen; and Matthews along with any combo of Neal/Mulumba/Hawk/B. Jones - depending on need.

If the goal is to put as much of our front line talent on the field together - that's a much better way of approaching it than any alignment that consistently has both Hawk and Brad Jones on the field for every snap.

[mraynrand]

Clay's a good pass rusher but clay's also a good everything. I think Perry dictates the possibilities... you've got two edges so you'll need two edge rushers for Clay to get significant time anywhere else. Peppers can be one. Perry was drafted for one reason and one reason only which is to rush the passer. So if he start reaching some of that freak potential he could demand a lot of snaps.

Of course that would require breaking his injury curse by making peace with the great spirits for whatever Indian burial mound he built his cabin on top of.

Eventually, they will get him

http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/245325.1020.A.jpg