Packer Playcalling Balance

[pbmax]

Mike Applesauce posted a Tweet today about whether the emergence of Eddie Lacy would presage a shift in the Packer run to pass ratio next year.

He posted that in 2013 it was 57.3 to 42.7, the second most run friendly ratio in his tenure. 2008 it was 56.8 to 43.2

I responded that it was perhaps self defeating to bring Rodgers back APRH, and then pass less than you did with the Wallace/Tolzien/Flynn Triangle Quarterback. Because I am a smart aleck and was hoping he would panic respond. No such luck.

However, you COULD imagine a scenario where Rodgers slings the ball around per normal, gets a lead and McCarthy, perhaps smartly, engages the 4 minute offense early. They could also be down Finley and Jones.

What say you, pass more this year, or less?



Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 4h
#Packers' pass-run ratio in 2013 was 57.3% to 42.7%. Only once before under McCarthy, in 2008, did they pass less often: 56.8% to 43.2%.

[3irty1]

I'm still a proponent of the idea that in a good offense, the better you are at running the less you have to do it. Lacy will run just enough to keep play action open and the pass rush honest which should be less than last year.

[mraynrand]

Obviously they will pass more because they have a great QB and it's a league that favors passing. But they should mix it up a lot, since they saw pretty good success in the run game against 6 man fronts.

The loss of Jones and Finley shouldn't hurt too much, especially since Boykin is pretty close to Jones and I suspect TT will pick an offensive weapon pretty high in the draft.

[bobblehead]

Mike Applesauce posted a Tweet today about whether the emergence of Eddie Lacy would presage a shift in the Packer run to pass ratio next year.

He posted that in 2013 it was 57.3 to 42.7, the second most run friendly ratio in his tenure. 2008 it was 56.8 to 43.2

I responded that it was perhaps self defeating to bring Rodgers back APRH, and then pass less than you did with the Wallace/Tolzien/Flynn Triangle Quarterback. Because I am a smart aleck and was hoping he would panic respond. No such luck.

However, you COULD imagine a scenario where Rodgers slings the ball around per normal, gets a lead and McCarthy, perhaps smartly, engages the 4 minute offense early. They could also be down Finley and Jones.

What say you, pass more this year, or less?



Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 4h
#Packers' pass-run ratio in 2013 was 57.3% to 42.7%. Only once before under McCarthy, in 2008, did they pass less often: 56.8% to 43.2%.

You left out "about the same" which is what i believe. We struck a nice balance last year that would have been awesome if ARod had stayed healthy.

[red]

i agree with the "about the same as last year" idea

[MadtownPacker]

Pass heavily the first half, grind that shit in the second half.

[Freak Out]

With the acquisition of thug Jackson they'll be throwing the ball all over the place now.

[Joemailman]

Mike Applesauce posted a Tweet today about whether the emergence of Eddie Lacy would presage a shift in the Packer run to pass ratio next year.

He posted that in 2013 it was 57.3 to 42.7, the second most run friendly ratio in his tenure. 2008 it was 56.8 to 43.2

I responded that it was perhaps self defeating to bring Rodgers back APRH, and then pass less than you did with the Wallace/Tolzien/Flynn Triangle Quarterback. Because I am a smart aleck and was hoping he would panic respond. No such luck.

However, you COULD imagine a scenario where Rodgers slings the ball around per normal, gets a lead and McCarthy, perhaps smartly, engages the 4 minute offense early. They could also be down Finley and Jones.

What say you, pass more this year, or less?



Mike Vandermause ‏@MikeVandermause 4h
#Packers' pass-run ratio in 2013 was 57.3% to 42.7%. Only once before under McCarthy, in 2008, did they pass less often: 56.8% to 43.2%.

Just a few more numbers. In the first 3 games of the year, the Packers were fairly unbalanced, the pass/run ratio being 63-37%. For the rest of the year it was 54-46. If this was due to Lacy becoming more established, it could point to more running this year.

By the way, the Packers actually threw the ball a slightly greater percentage with Rodgers out of the lineup. Perhaps this just reflects a tendency to be behind more with Rodgers out of the lineup.

[mraynrand]

Just a few more numbers. In the first 3 games of the year, the Packers were fairly unbalanced, the pass/run ratio being 63-37%. For the rest of the year it was 54-46. If this was due to Lacy becoming more established, it could point to more running this year.

By the way, the Packers actually threw the ball a slightly greater percentage with Rodgers out of the lineup. Perhaps this just reflects a tendency to be behind more with Rodgers out of the lineup.

The Packers can be really effective passing, even if the numbers aren't that high, especially if Stubby sticks to his same pattern of looking for touchdown, deep out, then check down last. At Dallas, the Packers ran 27 times for 150 and passed 39 times for 300. Because they were playing catch up you'd think it would have been even more 'unbalanced.' Packers can get big plays in both the pass and run game, mostly the passing game, so I'm guessing the play ratio isn't so accurate a measure of where the emphasis is.

[Brandon494]

Balanced attack of course, what kinda question is that? Keep the defense guessing and sets up play action. We also have two quality backs with Lacy and Stacks to pound the rock unlike in the past when we were loaded at WR and had no RBs.

[Fritz]

Since Rodgers's Achilles heel is that two-deep zone, I wonder if continued passing struggles against that look would force McStubby to run Lacey more often, earlier, to try to force defenses out of that look.

As I've said elsewhere and before, I wish Rodgers would learn how to check down a little faster against that look. There always seem to be a handful of plays in a game in which, against that look, Rodgers bypasses a wide open Kuhn/Lacey/Starks standing in the middle of the field, five yards away from the LOS, nobody else near.

[Zool]

Also, can we rename Starks/Franklin/Harris to Cagney? I would LOVE to have Cagney and Lacy in the backfield.

[mraynrand]

Also, can we rename Starks/Franklin/Harris to Cagney? I would LOVE to have Cagney and Lacy in the backfield.

It's a MAN, baby!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNzrem4U298

[mraynrand]

The kind of backfield that wants to steamroll your ass!

http://v003o.popscreen.com/eGg4a3ZjMTI=_o_cagney-lacey-a-class-act.jpg

[Pugger]

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140401/PKR01/304010440/Pieces-place-make-offense-even-more-potent

MM has in the past been pretty even as far as run vs pass but until we got Lacy the run didn't produce decent results so it appeared like all we did was pass. I think out offense in 2014 will be more potent because we now have a legit runner that defenses have to respect. If both Lacy and Rodgers stay healthy this should be a fun season.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nothing like rigging the result by the wording of the poll hahahaha.

Let other teams run first. The Packers have possibly the greatest throwing QB in the history of the NFL. I'm so thankful that McCarthy has chosen to pass first. That should NOT change now just because we have Lacy and a couple of other excellent RBs. We still should use the running game as a change of pace and to run clock if we have a big lead late.

[denverYooper]

Why run when you can win?

[pbmax]

Hey, you guys want a null hypothesis to reject, start your own poll. Damn frequentists.

Its changing. Now you just need to predict the change right. And don't get me started on the statistical significance of 57.3% versus 56.8% of pass plays. It was less in 2008, that is all that is relevant. If it was good enough for Cliff Christl and Cleft Crusty, then its good enough for Applesauce and PackerRats.

[pbmax]

Why run when you can win?

Exactly. I would title the Packer 2013 highlight film, Running to 500.

[Brandon494]

Exactly. I would title the Packer 2013 highlight film, Running to 500.

We were #3 in total offense because of our running game last season. Not saying we should become a running team but I'm tired of seeing 30 yard passes on 3rd and 1.

[pbmax]

We were #3 in total offense because of our running game last season. Not saying we should become a running team but I'm tired of seeing 30 yard passes on 3rd and 1.

I would be stunned to see that stop, but would love the see the single safety that teams might have to play if they believe the Packers will run it.

[packer4life]

Lacy against a 6-man box.

Drooling.

If Lacy was so effective with Flynn/Tolzien, just think what he's free to do with ARod at the helm

[Smidgeon]

We were #3 in total offense because of our running game last season. Not saying we should become a running team but I'm tired of seeing 30 yard passes on 3rd and 1.

If they're 30 yard completions on 3rd and 1, I'll probably never tire of it. Takes the wind out of a defense.

[Fritz]

I think it's the incompletions Brandon's worried about. It is a higher risk play than handing off to Lacey.

But if Rodgers sees a one on one matchup, I can understand.

[Joemailman]

Also, can we rename Starks/Franklin/Harris to Cagney? I would LOVE to have Cagney and Lacy in the backfield.

They'd be unstoppable.

http://www.latimes.com/includes/projects/hollywood/portraits/james_cagney.jpghttp://www.packersgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Eddie-Lacy.jpg

[bobblehead]

Nothing like rigging the result by the wording of the poll hahahaha.

Let other teams run first. The Packers have possibly the greatest throwing QB in the history of the NFL. I'm so thankful that McCarthy has chosen to pass first. That should NOT change now just because we have Lacy and a couple of other excellent RBs. We still should use the running game as a change of pace and to run clock if we have a big lead late.

Must....bite....tongue....don't mention.....Keynesia....n....

[bobblehead]

Exactly. I would title the Packer 2013 highlight film, Running to 500.

I would title it "bad pass blocking to .500"

[bobblehead]

I would be stunned to see that stop, but would love the see the single safety that teams might have to play if they believe the Packers will run it.

Exactly why you must be able to effectively run the ball. Rodgers is a deep ball assassin (which i think is also the title of a porn). You have a legit running game that teams feel the need to respect and look out Miss Daisy.

[pbmax]

Exactly why you must be able to effectively run the ball. Rodgers is a deep ball assassin (which i think is also the title of a porn). You have a legit running game that teams feel the need to respect and look out Miss Daisy.

Shouldn't, can't, be the only way to defeat it. 2 deep should be eminently easy to pass on even if it hard to pass DEEP on. It would be a major shortcoming of this offense if it doesn't get resolved except for Lacy.

I wouldn't complain all that much about Lacy solving it, but it would still be a poor indicator. Lacy or no, 49ers still played 2 deep and man under to frustrate Rodgers successfully most of that playoff game.

[Smeefers]

I went with passing more, but that's only because we have the best QB in the league at the moment. If they're giving you 5 yards a pop, you run it down their throat until they try and stop you. It's all situational. Very difficult to lobby for one way or the other because it's never black and white. I hate the 3 & 1 pass, but if they cheat up on it, it would be stupid not to throw it over their heads.

[bobblehead]

I went with passing more, but that's only because we have the best QB in the league at the moment. If they're giving you 5 yards a pop, you run it down their throat until they try and stop you. It's all situational. Very difficult to lobby for one way or the other because it's never black and white. I hate the 3 & 1 pass, but if they cheat up on it, it would be stupid not to throw it over their heads.

/thread

This about sums it up. You take what the defense gives you which means you must run and pass effectively.

[Zool]

I would title it "bad pass blocking to .500"

Or the Tolzein/Seneca experiment

[KYPack]

I dunno.

Punt less, score more?

[Tony Oday]

I dunno.

Punt less, score more?
Legit!

[wist43]

Anyone have a breakdown of power running plays vs "student body right, middle, left", i.e. ZBS??

I missed a lot of the season, but what I did watch near the end of the season I noticed more power running plays than I can ever remember MM running. Saw a lot more pulling and trapping, which is what I've been screaming for forever. I assume the increased use of power blocking, in great measure, is what was responsible for our improved showing in the run game??

Lacy was a big boost too, but from what I saw Starks was just as effective, and Franklin had a big game before he got hurt as well... so I attribute most of the improvement to the playcalling and the OL.

[Smeefers]

I don't have a run down, but there was a noticeable increase in power running plays. Not to say they abandoned the zbs. Lacey and Starks both seem capable with zb, being primarily one cut backs.

[pbmax]

Lacy got the power O plays. Starks was running ZBS. It was beautiful.

Don't remember what Franklin was running versus Cincy.

[mraynrand]

Nothing like rigging the result by the wording of the poll hahahaha.

Let other teams run first. The Packers have possibly the greatest throwing QB in the history of the NFL. I'm so thankful that McCarthy has chosen to pass first. That should NOT change now just because we have Lacy and a couple of other excellent RBs. We still should use the running game as a change of pace and to run clock if we have a big lead late.


It's like the Glorious Multiplier!