SI Johnny Football: Causing Heartburn In Coaches Who Won't Coach Him

[pbmax]

Coaches are strange people. Their success depending on other's success makes them crazy and they react to it by getting very, very personal and nearly irrational. Either you want to build an offense with a talent like him (and can assemble coaches to build that offense) or you don't or can't. Quit complaining.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/01/2014-nfl-draft-johnny-manziel-quarterback-experts/


Bonus Wolf hagiography: Stop drafting short players. Yes, Barry Sanders succeeded. Want to bet on your guy being the next Barry Sanders?

[red]

i saw a lot of favre in johnny football when i watched him. he'd make some great plays, then he'd follow it up with some of the most bone-headed throws i've ever seen

he also seems very ego/image driven to me. i mean, the story from his pro day was that he was wearing his new pr day line from nike.

he IS the QB from draft day

if i was a coach, i would not want to try and deal with him

[wist43]

I wouldn't draft Manziel in a one-team, one-player draft.

Whoever drafts him in the 1st round - that GM will be out of a job within 2 years.

[esoxx]

I think Manziel is going to be very good and my worst fear on draft night is he falls to the Vikings. But I don't think he will slide.

[gbgary]

the media always show him running around but 90+% of his td passes were from the pocket.

[Brandon494]

I pray he doesn't fall to the Vikings because kid is going to be a player in the NFL.

[Zool]

I think he'll flame out. He's too headstrong. If he gets a hold of a coach like Holmgren was for BF in the early years, maybe. If he falls to the Vikings I will laugh and laugh watching Milquetoast Turner try and get him to stop throwing picks.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Like some others have said, he'll make some spectacular plays. But then he'll have more than his share of moments where it's a total WTF.

Personally, I think he'll be good enough to win Rookie of the Year, like Young did simply because he was a QB and thus more press on his good plays. He may have a career like Young where he gets more credit than he deserves but then after several seasons, people realize he just has too many flaws and won't change his game to fix them.

Favre got lucky and walked into Holmgren who was strong enough to handle Favre. I don't know if there's a HC or OC that can do that now to a guy who was very much like Brett was.

[Pugger]

I saw something on Pro Football Talk where the MN GM was hinting at going defense with the #8 pick so I'm sure they'll draft a QB. But will Johnny Football still be there when the queens' are on the clock?

[Just Jeff]

Like some others have said, he'll make some spectacular plays. But then he'll have more than his share of moments where it's a total WTF.

Personally, I think he'll be good enough to win Rookie of the Year, like Young did simply because he was a QB and thus more press on his good plays. He may have a career like Young where he gets more credit than he deserves but then after several seasons, people realize he just has too many flaws and won't change his game to fix them.

Favre got lucky and walked into Holmgren who was strong enough to handle Favre. I don't know if there's a HC or OC that can do that now to a guy who was very much like Brett was.

Yes we've been very fortunate to have two very average QB over the last 22 years, that were saved from themselves by Holgren and MM.

[Guiness]

Like some others have said, he'll make some spectacular plays. But then he'll have more than his share of moments where it's a total WTF.

Personally, I think he'll be good enough to win Rookie of the Year, like Young did simply because he was a QB and thus more press on his good plays. He may have a career like Young where he gets more credit than he deserves but then after several seasons, people realize he just has too many flaws and won't change his game to fix them.

Favre got lucky and walked into Holmgren who was strong enough to handle Favre. I don't know if there's a HC or OC that can do that now to a guy who was very much like Brett was.

None that I see in the top 10, which is where he's likely to go. O'Brien? Dennis Allen? Not likely. Maybe Fisher, but he messed it up with VY. Andy Reid is the guy who comes to mind that would do well with him.

[pbmax]

I think he can succeed. But I would love for him to go to Minnesota because it will be mighty fine entertainment watching him slowly drain the will to live from Mike Zimmer.

There is nothing that back to basics Defensive Coordinators as HCs love more than unpredictability at QB. Zimmer will be made an honorary Ryan family member.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Yes we've been very fortunate to have two very average QB over the last 22 years, that were saved from themselves by Holgren and MM.

Not sure what you're getting at. Please, feel free to elaborate.

[mraynrand]

Yes we've been very fortunate to have two very average QB over the last 22 years, that were saved from themselves by Holgren and MM.

I kinda feel that we had two very exceptional QBs who were 'saved from themselves' to a degree by Holmgren and MM. (Favre was set right by both coaches) and Rodgers was saved from Tedford by MM. And while both have exceptional talent, both flourished in their coaches' systems as well.

[bobblehead]

i saw a lot of favre in johnny football when i watched him. he'd make some great plays, then he'd follow it up with some of the most bone-headed throws i've ever seen

he also seems very ego/image driven to me. i mean, the story from his pro day was that he was wearing his new pr day line from nike.

he IS the QB from draft day

if i was a coach, i would not want to try and deal with him

I agree and disagree. He is very "market" driven, but he also desires to be great. I think whoever drafts him will hold their head in their hands for a couple years while he sells jerseys and learns to play, but after that I expect him to be successful. He isn't Doug Flutie short, he is Drew Brees short.

[mraynrand]

I see boom or bust for Manzier. PB is right - it will require the right coaching to maximize his talents. What team has those coaches?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I kinda feel that we had two very exceptional QBs who were 'saved from themselves' to a degree by Holmgren and MM. (Favre was set right by both coaches) and Rodgers was saved from Tedford by MM. And while both have exceptional talent, both flourished in their coaches' systems as well.

If that was what Jeff was getting at, that's exactly my point about Favre.

[woodbuck27]

I think Manziel is going to be very good and my worst fear on draft night is he falls to the Vikings. But I don't think he will slide.

With all respect for you esoxx:

If I had a high priority need at any other position I'd shy away from Johnny Manziel.

I'd do so because of his size and the durability he would require to play in a long 16 game schedule and that added or weighed against his personal choices (personality).

Will Johnny Manziel be totally dedicated to being an NFL QB and team leader?

To draft him I shouldn't need to ask such a question.

[Just Jeff]

I kinda feel that we had two very exceptional QBs who were 'saved from themselves' to a degree by Holmgren and MM. (Favre was set right by both coaches) and Rodgers was saved from Tedford by MM. And while both have exceptional talent, both flourished in their coaches' systems as well.

I think that the opposite is more true but also not true, opposite being, that we had two head coaches who made a career for themselves by being carried by two exceptional QBs. We know that Holmgren did absolutely nothing post Favre, the book is still out on MM. I don't know that I'd go that far though. I just prefer to give the credit for football success to the players over the suits. I'm sure there are fans on boards in Atlanta, attributing Favre's success to Jerry Glanville.

[woodbuck27]

I think that the opposite is more true but also not true, opposite being, that we had two head coaches who made a career for themselves by being carried by two exceptional QBs. We know that Holmgren did absolutely nothing post Favre, the book is still out on MM. I don't know that I'd go that far though. I just prefer to give the credit for football success to the players over the suits. I'm sure there are fans on boards in Atlanta, attributing Favre's success to Jerry Glanville.

I agree with you.

Ultimately star players win big games not HC's. The HC may call the right play; but the players must execute that play call to the perfection required to help and/or put points up on the board.

[mraynrand]

We know that Holmgren did absolutely nothing post Favre.

kinda killed your argument with that one

[Zool]

I think that the opposite is more true but also not true, opposite being, that we had two head coaches who made a career for themselves by being carried by two exceptional QBs. We know that Holmgren did absolutely nothing post Favre, the book is still out on MM. I don't know that I'd go that far though. I just prefer to give the credit for football success to the players over the suits. I'm sure there are fans on boards in Atlanta, attributing Favre's success to Jerry Glanville.

Pssst. Seattle went to the superbowl with Holmgren coaching.

[Patler]

I think Favre required a bit of saving from himself. I'm not sure every coach would have taken the time to do it. I'm not sure every GM would have given his coach the freedom to do it. Wolf had a lot invested in Favre, and MM new the QB position and was authoritative enough to bring Favre under control. In a different environment, Favre might have torpedoed his own career.

I sometimes think people forget how exasperatingly erratic Favre was for a few years, and that Holmgren was on the verge of sending him to the bench.

[pbmax]

There is also the matter of mixed results after Holmgren left.

[Fritz]

Oh, I well remember how exasperating Favre was.

Me, I wouldn't draft Johnny Manziel. He seems to think he's bigger than the game, and that's the kind of guy I can't stand.

I know these guys have to have healthy egos to be able to star in the NFL, but there's a difference between that and being Justin Bieberesque.

[MadScientist]

I hope he falls and the Texans trade their 2 and 3 to GB to pick him up. He's got talent, and a little bit of ego bruising from falling out of the top ten might be enough to spur him on. Worked wonders for Rodgers (of course AR was never 'Hollywood' like Manziel).

[mraynrand]

Oh, I well remember how exasperating Favre was.

Me, I wouldn't draft Johnny Manziel. He seems to think he's bigger than the game, and that's the kind of guy I can't stand.

I know these guys have to have healthy egos to be able to star in the NFL, but there's a difference between that and being Justin Bieberesque.

"Bieberesque" - it needed to be repeaded.