2014 Offseason Questions [Archive]

pbmax

05-11-2014, 10:20 AM

That I will speculate on needlessly until camp arrives and we can speculate even harder.

1. Will Tolzien improve from Mad Bomber to Mad Bomber with half his current INT rate?

2. Bradford: Inside LB or Outside LB?

3. Barrington: Are we talking about the wrong ILB?

4. Sherrod: Can he finish the reclamation and claim a job?

5. Is Boykin or Tretter this year's M3 hard sell? Every year he praises one player, seemingly in an effort to coax some more out of them.

6. Is Boykin actually the #3 to start the season?

7. Does Sean Richardson have ANY chance to be a starting safety?

8. Who is the backup Nose Tackle?

denverYooper

05-11-2014, 10:54 AM

I had forgotten about Barrington until he started showing up in the early roster predictions thread. He's a possible sleeper surprise breakout pick. I have to say, though, I hope Tretter wins the breakout player award by taking center job and excelling there. If that happens, Green Bay's interior OL could be the best in the league.

The WR group is going to be fascinating this year, ARPH. It seems to me that they have been remade into a slightly more physical group in answer to the success opponents have had jamming them up.

For the first time since Collins went down, I have some hope for the Safety position.

Brandon494

05-11-2014, 03:10 PM

1. Will Tolzien improve from Mad Bomber to Mad Bomber with half his current INT rate?

I don't see him making the team honestly , I think we end up going with 2 QB.

2. Bradford: Inside LB or Outside LB?

I think he is better suited for ILB but will play OLB his rookie year. With Winston Moss coaching both inside and outside LBs now I'm sure he'll figure out the best place for him.

3. Barrington: Are we talking about the wrong ILB?

Don't really see him as the answer at ILB, too slow imo.

4. Sherrod: Can he finish the reclamation and claim a job?

Not drafting a OT might be a sign they feel he'll make the roster

5. Is Boykin or Tretter this year's M3 hard sell? Every year he praises one player, seemingly in an effort to coax some more out of them.

Hopefully its Burnett.

6. Is Boykin actually the #3 to start the season?

Yes but only because he knows the playbook, later in the season he'll share the #3 job with Adams similar to Nelson and Jones earlier in their careers.

7. Does Sean Richardson have ANY chance to be a starting safety?

Nope, Burnett makes too much money and HaHa's a 1st round pick.

8. Who is the backup Nose Tackle?

Boyd or Guion

run pMc

05-11-2014, 03:31 PM

What Brandon said.

pbmax

06-17-2014, 09:35 AM

Is Tretter this much of a risk? Pompei thinks so, but this same argument has been posed since Wells left.

He also sees Lacy as more effective this year with Rodgers healthy and think Peppers signing and the talk of less is more scheming means the same players will be playing multiple positions.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/80039266/green-bay-packers-add-julius-peppers-count-on-andrew-quarless-jc-tretter#!Z5VKQ

Patler

06-17-2014, 02:42 PM

5. Is Boykin or Tretter this year's M3 hard sell? Every year he praises one player, seemingly in an effort to coax some more out of them.

I hadn't thought of it until now, but there is an eery similarity between what he has said about Tretter this off-season and what he said about Nick McDonald in the off-season before they cut him.

vince

06-17-2014, 03:05 PM

I hadn't thought of it until now, but there is an eery similarity between what he has said about Tretter this off-season and what he said about Nick McDonald in the off-season before they cut him.
Tretter will be one to watch in the pre-season. McDonald got pushed around too much so it was pretty obvious he wasn't ready when you watched the pre-season games. My hunch is Tretter's a lot stronger. He's been noted for his "strong hands" since last year by the D-Linemen so I think he'll hold up but there's not much to go on yet obviously.

Patler

06-17-2014, 03:39 PM

Tretter will be one to watch in the pre-season. McDonald got pushed around too much so it was pretty obvious he wasn't ready when you watched the pre-season games. My hunch is Tretter's a lot stronger. He's been noted for his "strong hands" since last year by the D-Linemen so I think he'll hold up but there's not much to go on yet obviously.

Agreed. Based on absolutely nothing of substance, I ave a good feeling about him. First and foremost, he has come across as interested in making the switch to center. So many players have talked about their discomfort switching from their college positions, he has always said that he enjoys the switch to center, almost as if he enjoys it more than being at tackle or guard.

Many have described him as very intelligent (even apart from the generality of having gone to an Ivy-league school). His comments about the "burden" of the mental aspect of center and making the line calls have come across as a challenge he enjoys. In one article he mentioned that you really don't have to know any more than you should know at the other positions, because everyone should know what is going on anyway. Its just that the center has to verbalize it to make sure everyone is on the same page. He was a QB in high school, so he might enjoy having somewhat more control.

I know the Wonderlic is not the be-all, end-all of football smarts, but good centers tend to do well on it. Many questioned if EDS could handle the calls (15 Wonderlic). Early in his career it was questioned often, and in 2012 MM had said that they needed to get comfortable with EDS handling the calls before they were willing to play him much at center, and at that point he had already been in the league a few years. No one mentioned much about those types of concerns with Flanagan (35 Wonderlic) or Wells (30 Wonderlic). Saturday (27 Wonderlic) was known for always being on the same page with Manning, and players commented on it in GB. Tretter scored 33 on the Wonderlic.

bobblehead

06-17-2014, 07:57 PM

Agreed. Based on absolutely nothing of substance, I ave a good feeling about him. First and foremost, he has come across as interested in making the switch to center. So many players have talked about their discomfort switching from their college positions, he has always said that he enjoys the switch to center, almost as if he enjoys it more than being at tackle or guard.

Many have described him as very intelligent (even apart from the generality of having gone to an Ivy-league school). His comments about the "burden" of the mental aspect of center and making the line calls have come across as a challenge he enjoys. In one article he mentioned that you really don't have to know any more than you should know at the other positions, because everyone should know what is going on anyway. Its just that the center has to verbalize it to make sure everyone is on the same page. He was a QB in high school, so he might enjoy having somewhat more control.

I know the Wonderlic is not the be-all, end-all of football smarts, but good centers tend to do well on it. Many questioned if EDS could handle the calls (15 Wonderlic). Early in his career it was questioned often, and in 2012 MM had said that they needed to get comfortable with EDS handling the calls before they were willing to play him much at center, and at that point he had already been in the league a few years. No one mentioned much about those types of concerns with Flanagan (35 Wonderlic) or Wells (30 Wonderlic). Saturday (27 Wonderlic) was known for always being on the same page with Manning, and players commented on it in GB. Tretter scored 33 on the Wonderlic.

For me its all about the Larry McCarren remarks. Rock was praising damn near everything about this kid after he came back at the end of last season and you just don't hear him talk like that very often.

wist43

06-17-2014, 09:16 PM

We need guys to step up - personnel wise, I think we're pretty good.

Make or break year for high draft picks like Perry, Worthy and Sheridan. Safety needs to be fixed - is it? I think Tretter or Linsey will be okay at C. The other big ?? is WR - and the WR position is as much a function of Rodgers as the defense is a function of Rodgers. Rodgers is the straw that stirs the drink.

If Rodgers stays healthy - I'd like to think MM and Capers have learned their lessons in getting their asses handed to them 4 times in a row from the Niners; opening against the Seahawks is a good thing - I think it will force Capers to play more 3-4 than he likes to. Still, I think we lose that game.

vince

06-18-2014, 07:28 AM

Most positive wist post ever. :clap:

Perry and Worthy not practicing. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Absent injuries, the only questions I have about WR are who's gonna beat out who and how quickly, largely for the reason you state wist (Rodgers can make a lot of guys look good) but also because there are some guys who, though unproven, look like they might be able to really play. Adams in particular and Janis (though raw) look and sound to me like they have very high ceilings.

How soon will Adams see significant action?
How long will Boykin - who's earned his stripes as a big, strong-handed and reliable move-the-chains-when-you-need-it possession receiver - be able to fend off Adams - who has many similar qualities along with greater quickness and elusiveness - for the "starting" #3 wideout?
Will Harper's hammy keep him out of camp and out of contention for a roster spot?
Just how raw is Janis? 6'3", 220, 4.4 40, off the charts explosiveness for a kid that size, big production, D2 competition
Can they afford to keep 6 wideouts, possibly at the expense of what also looks like a deep (and unproven) TE/core special teams group?
Does Abbrederis have enough elusiveness and route running acumen to overcome his average speed and lack of strength at this level? Does he really bring anything more than a number of other alternatives in the punt return game that justifies a spot if he's not one of the top 5 receivers?

Lots of questions to be answered but I wouldn't call the position a question. I think there's a really good combination of proven producers, high upside potential that could develop pretty quickly, along with a group of 2nd year guys who may be ready to emerge.

They're not all gonna come through but there's not enough room on the team anyway for the ones whose early reviews make them look like they could.

World champs at their house to open the season. Gonna be a really tough match-up. Let's go baby!

Just Jeff

06-18-2014, 10:08 AM

pbmax

06-18-2014, 10:38 AM

I see all the questions being on the Defensive side of the ball. On Offense, I don't think it matters who the WR or TEs are. AR will make any of them better than they are. Only possible question on O is the never ending saga of why we can't establish a stable line. Having not had one for almost 8 years, I think that works itself out. Concerning but status quo.

I do not understand this line of thinking.

In the playoff game, the Offense was FAR WORSE than the defense, even if the defense had the more remarkable errors. Its a concern until they outplay a great D.

Just Jeff

06-18-2014, 11:20 AM

I do not understand this line of thinking.

In the playoff game, the Offense was FAR WORSE than the defense, even if the defense had the more remarkable errors. Its a concern until they outplay a great D.

I think that needs to be viewed throught the lense of time. AR was back for ONE game. They were not firing on all cylinders. Over time, not that one game, I would hope that you could agree that the D has shown FAR more questions than our O.

pbmax

06-18-2014, 11:54 AM

I think that needs to be viewed throught the lense of time. AR was back for ONE game. They were not firing on all cylinders. Over time, not that one game, I would hope that you could agree that the D has shown FAR more questions than our O.

More, yes. But its not zero Q's on offense. Lacy didn't solve cover 2 man issues. And receiver and TE are the big question marks. I am concerned.

MadScientist

06-18-2014, 12:19 PM

And receiver and TE are the big question marks. I am concerned.
The Packers brass agreed enough with you to throw a 2, 3, 5, 7, and a highly talented UDFA into the mix to answer those questions. Can't guarantee that they have the answer, but unlike safety last year the Packers are putting a lot of effort into it.

pbmax

06-18-2014, 12:21 PM

The Packers brass agreed enough with you to throw a 2, 3, 5, 7, and a highly talented UDFA into the mix to answer those questions. Can't guarantee that they have the answer, but unlike safety last year the Packers are putting a lot of effort into it.

Personally, I think the QB needs to get his head out of his back side as well. But the talent will help.

Just Jeff

06-18-2014, 12:33 PM

Personally, I think the QB needs to get his head out of his back side as well. But the talent will help.

Wow. Didn't see that coming. How does AR have his head in his Thompson?

pbmax

06-18-2014, 12:38 PM

Wow. Didn't see that coming. How does AR have his head in his Thompson?

Not taking dump off throws when facing intense pressure. Holding on to the ball too long while waiting for something deep to open up.

A TE who is not afraid of going down the seam against the Cover 2 would help. But those are not easy throws or catches and take time to get on the same page. Throwing it 10 yards to a wide open Lacy, Starks or Harris to gain 7 makes far more sense this year.

vince

06-18-2014, 01:09 PM

Wow. Didn't see that coming. How does AR have his head in his Thompson?
http://cache.comcorpusa.com/640/361/crop/ketk/media/news/TANK%20EXPLOSIONS.1301958113.jpg

Just Jeff

06-18-2014, 01:43 PM

Not taking dump off throws when facing intense pressure. Holding on to the ball too long while waiting for something deep to open up.

A TE who is not afraid of going down the seam against the Cover 2 would help. But those are not easy throws or catches and take time to get on the same page. Throwing it 10 yards to a wide open Lacy, Starks or Harris to gain 7 makes far more sense this year.

So how is facing intense pressure on AR? How is not having a TE that can go down the seam on AR? If I can get Thompson for considering our Oline to be weak, where do I get the hall pass to say that AR is one of our problems?

Guiness

06-18-2014, 01:52 PM

The Packers brass agreed enough with you to throw a 2, 3, 5, 7, and a highly talented UDFA into the mix to answer those questions. Can't guarantee that they have the answer, but unlike safety last year the Packers are putting a lot of effort into it.

Ya, that Justin "Mr. Italy" Perillo is something else, isn't he? :-)

pbmax

06-18-2014, 02:11 PM

So how is facing intense pressure on AR? How is not having a TE that can go down the seam on AR? If I can get Thompson for considering our Oline to be weak, where do I get the hall pass to say that AR is one of our problems?

You don't need a hall pass. Just stop trolling. No one thinks he is immune from criticism.

There are problems on almost every snap, in every game. Someone is covered, someone is winning a one on one battle, someone is applying pressure or blanket coverage. You do what you need to do to win.

You can't expect perfect execution every time you hike the ball. In this case, people are open. Throw them the ball and do not worry about the preference of the coach to look deep then shallow, esp. when they are all but daring you to go deep. When facing a good D, stop biting on the one on one matchup outside.

The reason part of the criticism for the O rests on Rodgers is because facing other kinds of coverage, the situation up front doesn't affect him nearly as much. So while his line does need to do pass pro better, he needs to do better versus Cover 2 man.

Just Jeff

06-18-2014, 02:43 PM

You don't need a hall pass. Just stop trolling. No one thinks he is immune from criticism.

There are problems on almost every snap, in every game. Someone is covered, someone is winning a one on one battle, someone is applying pressure or blanket coverage. You do what you need to do to win.

You can't expect perfect execution every time you hike the ball. In this case, people are open. Throw them the ball and do not worry about the preference of the coach to look deep then shallow, esp. when they are all but daring you to go deep. When facing a good D, stop biting on the one on one matchup outside.

The reason part of the criticism for the O rests on Rodgers is because facing other kinds of coverage, the situation up front doesn't affect him nearly as much. So while his line does need to do pass pro better, he needs to do better versus Cover 2 man.

So would you be trolling about AR? I really don't see the difference. I think TT has done a horrendous job of maintaining an Oline. As a result of that opinion, I criticise him. You think AR does a poor job against the cover 2, so you criticise him. If I'm starting a team, I'll take AR, you take the Oline. We'll sort it out in a Super Bowl

Fritz

06-18-2014, 02:54 PM

I don't think anyone is saying they'd prefer the o-line to Arod, given one or the other.

Just Jeff

06-18-2014, 02:57 PM

I don't think anyone is saying they'd prefer the o-line to Arod, given one or the other.

Yet, criticism of one is trolling and the other insightful analysis?

pbmax

06-18-2014, 03:04 PM

his reckless lack of concern

Yes, this strikes me as a sober, mature and well thought out critique of the problems Thompson has had with the O line. Its definitely his lack of concern.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26923-Biggest-addition-TT-has-made&p=788931&highlight=#post788931

pbmax

06-18-2014, 03:09 PM

Yet, criticism of one is trolling and the other insightful analysis?

You are not just engaged in a meaningful critique. You are engaged in opposition to Thompson. The arguments simply change over time to whatever might have the most fertile ground to flourish.

There is no nuance, just condemnation. Mind reading and other posts meant to elicit a reaction rather than illuminate a subject.

You can pretend all you would like that you are a simple poster pointing out the flaws of a GM, but you have no larger point. You just want the argument and reaction.

Fritz

06-18-2014, 03:18 PM

Yet, criticism of one is trolling and the other insightful analysis?

Yes. Criticism of AR for not looking quickly enough for open dump-offs when he sees cover-2 is a specific criticism of one aspect of a great player's game.

On the other hand, mass condemnations of an entire position group over the course of several years (without considering the success of Sitton or the injuries to two first-round offensive picks, plus...

Lines like this -

"If they were truly worried about his durablity, they wouldn't a) have an oline that is average at best, b) continue to change the Oline on an annual basis"

- which suggest that the GM (or is it the entire organization?) isn't worried about Aaron Rodgers's durability (and thus simply don't care about drafting good offensive linemen), do not add up to thoughtful analysis.

Zool

06-18-2014, 03:23 PM

Yet, criticism of one is trolling and the other insightful analysis?

troll2
trōl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: trolling
1. informal
make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

ThunderDan

06-18-2014, 03:31 PM

troll2
trōl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: trolling
1. informal
make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

It's just Tank coming back as his 5th incarnation. As soon as he starts quoting Coldplay lyrics we will know for sure.

Just Jeff

06-18-2014, 03:31 PM

Yes. Criticism of AR for not looking quickly enough for open dump-offs when he sees cover-2 is a specific criticism of one aspect of a great player's game.

On the other hand, mass condemnations of an entire position group over the course of several years (without considering the success of Sitton or the injuries to two first-round offensive picks, plus...

Lines like this -

"If they were truly worried about his durablity, they wouldn't a) have an oline that is average at best, b) continue to change the Oline on an annual basis"

- which suggest that the GM (or is it the entire organization?) isn't worried about Aaron Rodgers's durability (and thus simply don't care about drafting good offensive linemen), do not add up to thoughtful analysis.

So again I have criticised one aspect of TTs GM skills. I don't think he has a clue about drafting Olineman. I think he does well at managing the cap, its too bad there wasn't an award for that. It doesn't matter that TT has picked 20 something Olineman in the draft or that there have been three first round picks on the oline, the only thing that matters is the results, and the results suck. We did this with Favre and were doing it with AR. We are not surrounding either of them with the tools to win. This is not a TT rant. It applies to Wolf, Sherman and TT. Of those Wolf has admitted to the same, so this isn't just coming from me. To win 2 superbowls with 20 years of the top QB in football, is a crime to me. If you don't like the verbage that I convey that with, blame it on the Chicago Public Schools.

Zool

06-18-2014, 03:37 PM

So again I have criticised one aspect of TTs GM skills.

Over, and over, and over, and over, and o......

vince

06-18-2014, 09:23 PM

Extreme liberalism and poetic soliloquies from the perspective of a fictitious white-haired closet homosexual who can't seem to emerge from a deep sleep can only be days away now....

run pMc

06-18-2014, 10:45 PM

So again I have criticised one aspect of TTs GM skills. I don't think he has a clue about drafting Olineman. I think he does well at managing the cap, its too bad there wasn't an award for that. It doesn't matter that TT has picked 20 something Olineman in the draft or that there have been three first round picks on the oline, the only thing that matters is the results, and the results suck. We did this with Favre and were doing it with AR. We are not surrounding either of them with the tools to win. This is not a TT rant. It applies to Wolf, Sherman and TT. Of those Wolf has admitted to the same, so this isn't just coming from me. To win 2 superbowls with 20 years of the top QB in football, is a crime to me. If you don't like the verbage that I convey that with, blame it on the Chicago Public Schools.

I have a different opinion. I don't think TT has a fantastic track record with OL, but he's not awful either. He's done much better going from the roster he inherited to where it is now. Compare that with say, the Mike Sherman years, or the years immediately preceding Ron Wolf. What OL did Sherman draft when he wasn't trading picks for B.J. Sander? Sherman inherited his OL from Wolf. When TT took over Rivera was broken and Wahle wanted to get paid, and Favre had Taco Wallace and Antonio Chatham out there running routes.

The OL as is today isn't Top 5 but it's at worst average and at best Top 10. That they can continue to make the playoffs in spite of the defense is a testament to the offense, which includes Rodgers and the men protecting him.

woodbuck27

06-19-2014, 09:47 AM

I hadn't thought of it until now, but there is an eery similarity between what he has said about Tretter this off-season and what he said about Nick McDonald in the off-season before they cut him.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Nick_McDonald.jpg/300px-Nick_McDonald.jpg

Once Upon A Time In Green Bay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_McDonald#New_England_Patriots

Nick McDonald is an American football guard and center who is currently signed with the San Diego Chargers of National Football League (NFL).

Pugger

06-19-2014, 09:52 AM

pbmax

06-19-2014, 09:56 AM

Can we point to Rodgers being a tad rusty? He had issues in the bare game the week before.

Absolutely. I used that game because the defense showed what it was capable of (both good and bad) and actually did well enough to keep the O in the game. But even non-rusty Rodgers has had trouble with that kind of defense.

I fully expect Rodgers and the O to outperform the defense overall in 2014. But that game was a clear demonstration that problems can and do exist on the offensive side.

Pugger

06-19-2014, 10:01 AM

I have a different opinion. I don't think TT has a fantastic track record with OL, but he's not awful either. He's done much better going from the roster he inherited to where it is now. Compare that with say, the Mike Sherman years, or the years immediately preceding Ron Wolf. What OL did Sherman draft when he wasn't trading picks for B.J. Sander? Sherman inherited his OL from Wolf. When TT took over Rivera was broken and Wahle wanted to get paid, and Favre had Taco Wallace and Antonio Chatham out there running routes.

The OL as is today isn't Top 5 but it's at worst average and at best Top 10. That they can continue to make the playoffs in spite of the defense is a testament to the offense, which includes Rodgers and the men protecting him.

We have one of the better guard tandems in the league (some say Sitton is a top 5 guard), Bulaga is very good (when he isn't hurt), Bak played great for a raw 4th round rookie and from what I hear Sherrod has looked terrific in the OTAs. It will be fun to see how he looks in pads. The coaches thought enough about Tretter that they let EDS walk plus drafted another so there is depth there. IMO the O line is the least of our worries going into 2014.

pbmax

06-19-2014, 10:26 AM

Guiness

06-19-2014, 10:48 AM

On Question #4: Sherrod

For those still in doubt about why Sherrod needs to be the left tackle, I present to you a visual aid. Pay close attention to the background of this picture of Starkplug and Eddie.

A good big man beats a good little man every time.

Other observations: Mr. Lacy is sporting the spare tire again, but I doubt anyone will comment about it this year. Sherrod's got some male pattern baldness going on and he's what, 25?

mraynrand

06-19-2014, 10:53 AM

mraynrand

06-19-2014, 10:56 AM

Sherrod's got some male pattern baldness going on and he's what, 25?

I'm sorry, but were you saying something negative about bald guys? I couldn't hear you above the sound of kicking someone's ass!
http://ryanjevins.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/ray-nitschke-082.jpg
http://www.footballcardgallery.com/1965_Philadelphia/79/Ray_Nitschke.jpg

woodbuck27

06-19-2014, 11:04 AM

A good big man beats a good little man every time.

Other observations: Mr. Lacy is sporting the spare tire again, but I doubt anyone will comment about it this year. Sherrod's got some male pattern baldness going on and he's what, 25?

Tell that to Chris "Knuckles" Nilan or Martin St. Louis.

Tell that to Patrick Kane.

Fritz

06-19-2014, 11:49 AM

Wow. Great visual. Based strictly on appearances (and that isn't the greatest measuring stick or Jeremy Thompson would've been an all-pro), Bahktieri can battle OLB's and defensive linemen, and Sherrod can simply engulf them.

Man, I hope Sherrod plays really, really well, and stays really, really healthy. I'd like to see what he can do.

Pugger

06-20-2014, 10:23 AM

On Question #4: Sherrod

For those still in doubt about why Sherrod needs to be the left tackle, I present to you a visual aid. Pay close attention to the background of this picture of Starkplug and Eddie.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqdWkwuCYAEvCU5.jpg:large

Sherrod is one huge individual. If he can live up to his draft status we could have a very big LT protecting The Franchise's backside. :cool: